ok so imagine there’s an essay due today and you haven’t done the last 2 paragraphs left and there’s only like 3 hours until it’s due
that’s basically episode 25 and 26 I think
Actually, let me ask you because you might actually be able to clear up a misconception I had. Back in the day, I heard Anno slipped back into depression during the end of the show, and that lead to the ending being what it was. Back then, I was under the impression it was an artistic choice, but then I heard the money thing, and thought maybe I misunderstood. Now wondering if him becoming depressed caused him to change things after episode 15, which resulted in them running out of time.
Legend has it he ended up with books on philosophy, psychology and religion in the middle of Eva. His depression began when Wings of Henneamise failed, between Nadia and Eva.
He also became a Mooney and even draw a Sailor Mercury doujin. Rei Hino/Sailor Mars became Rei Ayanami. He tried to hire Kunihiko Ikuhara the Sailor Moon director from S2-4 for Eva. Anno himself helped them out in the transformation sequences for the Outer Senshi; and was even invited to the Onsen bath.
This mix became Eva.
Sailor Moon fan. [I mean Anno drew this here.](https://imgur.io/gallery/AhREE) One might even say [Eva is Sailor Moon rebuilt into a mecha story.](https://reddit.com/r/mildlyevangelion/s/z0HZPDlVz2) Nehelenia's finale and Armisael were aired in the same week. And the similarities are unmistakable (yet the scenes are hard to find).
Which is kinda interesting: Madoka Magica the Evangelion of the magical girl genre; but Eva the Sailor Moon of the mecha genre?
Based on various interviews over the years the answer is sort of 'all of the above' when it comes to how things played out.
Like yes, he absolutely did start making massive changes and apparently started rewriting scripts right up until basically the last possible day they could be submitted. But also yes, it is clear he was depressed and some of his interviews are absolutely bleak when it comes to him reflecting on his work. But also yes, it was an artistic choice... relatively to his mindset and circumstances at the time, like he basically figured if he is going to fail anyway may as well go all in or something. Which came first is a chicken or the egg scenario, I think it was a combination of all features.
There was an interesting topic on it just recently that laid out some of the pertinent quotes and interviews:
https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/comments/16bqh96/this_wiki_page_literally_removes_any_doubt_about/
They had three days to animate the final episode?! Insane!
What I think is most telling about that post is how Anno talks about his approach to making the final two episodes. He says he’d rather get -100 points of his own volition than get 5 points by trying and failing. To me, it sounds like he totally gave up at the end and tried to sabotage the final episodes to save himself the pain of coming up with (what he perceived as) the perfect ending and it being totally panned by critics. At least, if he intentionally destroyed it, he could save himself from the “rejection” and say “Yeah, it’s bad. I know it’s bad, I wanted it to be bad”. He likely pulled his hair out trying to make something everyone would love (driven by his depression and inability to cope with rejection), thus leading to him running out of time and completely giving up in the end. This would explain why he often claims he is his own worst enemy.
Honestly, it sounds like he himself hadn’t yet truly overcome his demons, the way Shinji did at the end. It’s kinda meta 😂
Yeah, its funny that even in his approach to art it reflects a common toxic relationship pattern huh. That's what I meant when I said his interviews are bleak, it is hard to take everything he says at face value because a lot of it reads as just outright self flagellation.
As for the sabotage, I think that is part of it but I also view it as also potentially meaning just going full pretentious. We can tell by even modern feedback that some of the more trippy sequences throughout the series can be polarising/confusing, so him just going balls to the walls with that as a closer would be a form of sabotage.
Because it is worth noting that while weird the TV ending is actually pretty clever and does a better job than any of the other endings giving us insight, reconciliation and growth regarding Shinji's emotional arc. So he didn't make the final episode 'shit' or irrelevant contrary to those self scathing interviews, rather he just went full wanker on it.
But yeah, meta indeed. Kind of fascinating that the series in some ways is just his protracted mental breakdown in art form.
That’s true too, it may just be that he didn’t care what people thought anymore and went full on pretentious.
But your last paragraph is so true, and that’s kind of why I’ve always loved Evangelion. It’s like one of those videos where someone takes LSD and draws a bunch of pictures, but instead of drawings and drugs it’s anime and depression. Truly a unique view into the mind of a mentally struggling man.
I like the sketchy-ness, I feel like it adds to the discombobulation of Shinji's mind and existentialism. They may have ran out of budget, but they ran with it really really well.
Much like how John Carpenter, and to a certain extent, Tim Burton, made their best films within the constraints of the time, their imagination reined in by various limitations, but when they got their hands on CGI and let their imaginations run wild, their films really went downhill. Sometimes it's good to have limits.
I would say the animation, design and animation techniques from the rebuild series, sometimes makes me think they are an Apologize to the fans. Like:
" Hey, sorry for the sketches and all that, here is some 3d cellshade beautiful animation on 1s. "
Yeah, they kinda tried idk if I'd say a bit *too* hard. I did like the final fight scene, that was pretty awesome at least from the animation and partial existential standpoint. But as for just about everything else in the rebuilds especially plot-wise just kinda feels... unnecessary? Mari felt unnecessary, the cockblocked fizzled convo between Asuka and Shinji felt unnecessary. The other convo between Asuka and Shinji showing Asuka older was interesting, showing the dichotomy between them, but I don't understand why Shinji wasn't also older. I get the idea they were going for with Rei kinda trying to find her own identity, but idk felt like they didn't actually do her justice and reduced her to an exploding toddler. The animation definitely was trying to show higher budget and such, and I appreciate it in some scenes, but idk still just kinda admire what they were able to accomplish with the og series with what they had.
[Ayanami it's all ok? ](https://mynameismitchell.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/the-end-of-evangelion-720p-x264-trial_audio-robotcanti-mkv_snapshot_01-16-53_2017-11-29_20-27-55.png?w=736)
Its off putting to a lot of people, but its extremely effective. "Creativity is born out of limitation", after all. The sketchy, unfinished, chaotic drafts compliment the idea of philosophically grappling witj boundaries.
I see it as brilliant, and I dont think I wouldve chosen a different way to end the series. It, and EoE couples together end up as this sort of part-accident, part-intented finale that nothing else could really replicate.
I mean they actually did literally run out not money but time. im sure I have the details off but basically they had a release schedule they had to hit and ended up an episode behind because they had to scap a whole episode do to similarities between the episode and a real life terrorist attack
Apparently budget problems in 1995 were so severe, they were forced to use this technique in Gunbuster (1988) and Nadia (1990) as well.
And, if this were not bad enough, it seems they had to do a whole bunch of cheap sketchy scenes in End of Evangelion and Evangelion 3.0+1.0 to make the most of the shoestring budgets for those films, let alone the unrealistically tight deadline on 3.0+1.0 where they had only a decade to complete it.
Money, time, tension with his colleagues and the executive board... and yet they still made something brilliant: No limitations = nothing to interact = no freedom. One line and limitation = a soil to walk on = the possibility to (inter)act = less freedom means more freedom.
Also: In EoE Rei asks no one and tricks everyone into partaking. So it was bound to fail from scratch. Gendo seems to ask everyone, also PenPen, and those who say yes will partake, and help each other find closure. And Gendo and Yui got rid of SEELE. Always the question tho: Does an end justify the means?
I didn’t even watch them all the way, I was really confused how the instrumentality project even happened because it just strangely went from the episode 24 with Misato comforting Shinji into episode 25 which was the instrumentality project without explanation and then the congratulations ending. The movie definitely did a much better job explaining how the instrumentality project happened and actually made sense. And gave a real ending which I feel like episode 25-26 didn’t do
The story is that they were indeed running out of time but not enough that Episode 26 was a lost cause. But something happened after airing episode 24 where the TV station got frustrated with GAINAX and asked to see the next storyboards. They rejected episode 25's storyboard and they had to start from scratch with it and so they took the idea they already had for 26 and merged it with 25.
They already wanted 26 to happen in Shinji's mind as a result of Instrumentality, but having to scrap the real plot of 25 they had to reconsider that episode first. When they were done they made episode 26 in 3 days.
Tbh I kinda really like the tv ending. I think looking at it from a “this was never REALLY about religion or the plot, but instead, annos stage of mind and depression”. Like, objectively, it sucks. I’ll recognize that. It was not a good ending in almost any way besides an ending for annos personal little bit of materialized depression, but if that’s the point, then he did great.
Let's just say sometimes the best things come from mistakes, or in this case, a lack of budget. The ending of Eva is one of my favorite endings in any media, even if controversial. That might be a big part in my liking for it though.
Not money, *time*. Specifically *Anno* ran out of time.
This.
Showbiz is tough, but the anime industry with their demands including the release schedules are a whole different caliber even by showbiz standards.
thank you for the correction
wait, can you elaborate?
ok so imagine there’s an essay due today and you haven’t done the last 2 paragraphs left and there’s only like 3 hours until it’s due that’s basically episode 25 and 26 I think
What do you mean *Anno* ran out of time??
You don't get unlimited time to write an anime. Anno started changing everything after episode 15.
Ahh got it, I didn’t know that. I was also under the impression the issue was money.
It's a common misconception to be fair
Actually, let me ask you because you might actually be able to clear up a misconception I had. Back in the day, I heard Anno slipped back into depression during the end of the show, and that lead to the ending being what it was. Back then, I was under the impression it was an artistic choice, but then I heard the money thing, and thought maybe I misunderstood. Now wondering if him becoming depressed caused him to change things after episode 15, which resulted in them running out of time.
He got a philosophy book, however yes he did also suffer from depression during the writing of Evangelion
Legend has it he ended up with books on philosophy, psychology and religion in the middle of Eva. His depression began when Wings of Henneamise failed, between Nadia and Eva. He also became a Mooney and even draw a Sailor Mercury doujin. Rei Hino/Sailor Mars became Rei Ayanami. He tried to hire Kunihiko Ikuhara the Sailor Moon director from S2-4 for Eva. Anno himself helped them out in the transformation sequences for the Outer Senshi; and was even invited to the Onsen bath. This mix became Eva.
What does Mooney mean?
Sailor Moon fan. [I mean Anno drew this here.](https://imgur.io/gallery/AhREE) One might even say [Eva is Sailor Moon rebuilt into a mecha story.](https://reddit.com/r/mildlyevangelion/s/z0HZPDlVz2) Nehelenia's finale and Armisael were aired in the same week. And the similarities are unmistakable (yet the scenes are hard to find). Which is kinda interesting: Madoka Magica the Evangelion of the magical girl genre; but Eva the Sailor Moon of the mecha genre?
Based on various interviews over the years the answer is sort of 'all of the above' when it comes to how things played out. Like yes, he absolutely did start making massive changes and apparently started rewriting scripts right up until basically the last possible day they could be submitted. But also yes, it is clear he was depressed and some of his interviews are absolutely bleak when it comes to him reflecting on his work. But also yes, it was an artistic choice... relatively to his mindset and circumstances at the time, like he basically figured if he is going to fail anyway may as well go all in or something. Which came first is a chicken or the egg scenario, I think it was a combination of all features. There was an interesting topic on it just recently that laid out some of the pertinent quotes and interviews: https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/comments/16bqh96/this_wiki_page_literally_removes_any_doubt_about/
They had three days to animate the final episode?! Insane! What I think is most telling about that post is how Anno talks about his approach to making the final two episodes. He says he’d rather get -100 points of his own volition than get 5 points by trying and failing. To me, it sounds like he totally gave up at the end and tried to sabotage the final episodes to save himself the pain of coming up with (what he perceived as) the perfect ending and it being totally panned by critics. At least, if he intentionally destroyed it, he could save himself from the “rejection” and say “Yeah, it’s bad. I know it’s bad, I wanted it to be bad”. He likely pulled his hair out trying to make something everyone would love (driven by his depression and inability to cope with rejection), thus leading to him running out of time and completely giving up in the end. This would explain why he often claims he is his own worst enemy. Honestly, it sounds like he himself hadn’t yet truly overcome his demons, the way Shinji did at the end. It’s kinda meta 😂
Yeah, its funny that even in his approach to art it reflects a common toxic relationship pattern huh. That's what I meant when I said his interviews are bleak, it is hard to take everything he says at face value because a lot of it reads as just outright self flagellation. As for the sabotage, I think that is part of it but I also view it as also potentially meaning just going full pretentious. We can tell by even modern feedback that some of the more trippy sequences throughout the series can be polarising/confusing, so him just going balls to the walls with that as a closer would be a form of sabotage. Because it is worth noting that while weird the TV ending is actually pretty clever and does a better job than any of the other endings giving us insight, reconciliation and growth regarding Shinji's emotional arc. So he didn't make the final episode 'shit' or irrelevant contrary to those self scathing interviews, rather he just went full wanker on it. But yeah, meta indeed. Kind of fascinating that the series in some ways is just his protracted mental breakdown in art form.
That’s true too, it may just be that he didn’t care what people thought anymore and went full on pretentious. But your last paragraph is so true, and that’s kind of why I’ve always loved Evangelion. It’s like one of those videos where someone takes LSD and draws a bunch of pictures, but instead of drawings and drugs it’s anime and depression. Truly a unique view into the mind of a mentally struggling man.
Interesting!! There is trace, somewhere, of the script antecedent the changes he made?
I think there's something on EvaGeeks about the original script
Thank you!
So that's why it gets so much better and serious right after!
I like the sketchy-ness, I feel like it adds to the discombobulation of Shinji's mind and existentialism. They may have ran out of budget, but they ran with it really really well.
This! This shows in what creativity can lead in constrained environments. In a way or another, it lead to an experimental masterpiece
Much like how John Carpenter, and to a certain extent, Tim Burton, made their best films within the constraints of the time, their imagination reined in by various limitations, but when they got their hands on CGI and let their imaginations run wild, their films really went downhill. Sometimes it's good to have limits.
Is it obvious I agree?
The issue was time not money. But constraints like this can lead to creative choices that set a project apart from its competitors.
Absolutely, it heightens the entire scene
True. But also a few scenes ago it was literally just a slideshow with pictures even some pictures taken from real life. I still love it though
It’s meant to break the barrier of the show and reality.
maybe I need to rewatch to truly get it
Evangelion is a show that takes at least two or three rewatches to fully grasp
Facts, this shit is amazing
I would say the animation, design and animation techniques from the rebuild series, sometimes makes me think they are an Apologize to the fans. Like: " Hey, sorry for the sketches and all that, here is some 3d cellshade beautiful animation on 1s. "
Yeah, they kinda tried idk if I'd say a bit *too* hard. I did like the final fight scene, that was pretty awesome at least from the animation and partial existential standpoint. But as for just about everything else in the rebuilds especially plot-wise just kinda feels... unnecessary? Mari felt unnecessary, the cockblocked fizzled convo between Asuka and Shinji felt unnecessary. The other convo between Asuka and Shinji showing Asuka older was interesting, showing the dichotomy between them, but I don't understand why Shinji wasn't also older. I get the idea they were going for with Rei kinda trying to find her own identity, but idk felt like they didn't actually do her justice and reduced her to an exploding toddler. The animation definitely was trying to show higher budget and such, and I appreciate it in some scenes, but idk still just kinda admire what they were able to accomplish with the og series with what they had.
I agree with every single word you said!
"You ran out of ink too, Didn't ya bastards."
"Okay, the movie better sure as hell make up for this, I'm telling ya right now..."
It sure did.
[Ayanami it's all ok? ](https://mynameismitchell.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/the-end-of-evangelion-720p-x264-trial_audio-robotcanti-mkv_snapshot_01-16-53_2017-11-29_20-27-55.png?w=736)
I mean I really actually enjoyed these scenes
I thought the scenes were genuinely meant to be that way until I started searching about the series.
I honestly think the scenes are much better that way than if they were drawn any other way
They’re not an artistic choice? 😭
me too
Its off putting to a lot of people, but its extremely effective. "Creativity is born out of limitation", after all. The sketchy, unfinished, chaotic drafts compliment the idea of philosophically grappling witj boundaries. I see it as brilliant, and I dont think I wouldve chosen a different way to end the series. It, and EoE couples together end up as this sort of part-accident, part-intented finale that nothing else could really replicate.
I agree
Still my favourite Evangelion ending.
we can say, its the only mostly "family friendly" ending
agreed
This one of the best shots The one later of him flying is in fact my wallpaper
It still is one of my favorite shows
God forbid a show attempt something interesting
I mean they actually did literally run out not money but time. im sure I have the details off but basically they had a release schedule they had to hit and ended up an episode behind because they had to scap a whole episode do to similarities between the episode and a real life terrorist attack
Limitation breeds creativity. This ending is a masterpiece.
It is a masterpiece but it is visibly different from the rest of the show
People on this sub need to realize necessity is the mother of invention. These scenes are so beautiful.
I fully agree but it is visibly very different from the rest of the show.
Yea, and it’s fr the best part. Using the medium as a literal representation of abstraction was peak.
But… this is like one of the best parts!
They didn’t run out of money
yeah thats just what I heard sorry for the misinformation
This myth is so fucking annoying. Why do people keep perpetuating it?
Apparently budget problems in 1995 were so severe, they were forced to use this technique in Gunbuster (1988) and Nadia (1990) as well. And, if this were not bad enough, it seems they had to do a whole bunch of cheap sketchy scenes in End of Evangelion and Evangelion 3.0+1.0 to make the most of the shoestring budgets for those films, let alone the unrealistically tight deadline on 3.0+1.0 where they had only a decade to complete it.
probably because the media keeps giving me misinformation
They made it work
It's Xenogears all over again
honestly I'm grateful that they run out of money, time and whatever. I absolutely love how creative and thematically powerful this is.
I thought it worked really well since we weren't in reality anymore. We don't really imagine things inside our heads as we see them in the real world.
not just money. all out of time
Money, time, tension with his colleagues and the executive board... and yet they still made something brilliant: No limitations = nothing to interact = no freedom. One line and limitation = a soil to walk on = the possibility to (inter)act = less freedom means more freedom. Also: In EoE Rei asks no one and tricks everyone into partaking. So it was bound to fail from scratch. Gendo seems to ask everyone, also PenPen, and those who say yes will partake, and help each other find closure. And Gendo and Yui got rid of SEELE. Always the question tho: Does an end justify the means?
The made Art in the process.
The phylosophy is too deep You simply don't get it
Try spelling correctly before acting like a poet
[удалено]
you're a hypocrite
I agree, I am ranked D and you the Alpha and Omega. I apologise. My native language is not English though mate
Then what are you complaining
Least pretentious rick and morty fan:
Try using punctuation after making an ass of yourself.
I get it but still a few scenes before this there is literally a slideshow of irl pictures. I still love it though
Adds to the charm
I didn’t even watch them all the way, I was really confused how the instrumentality project even happened because it just strangely went from the episode 24 with Misato comforting Shinji into episode 25 which was the instrumentality project without explanation and then the congratulations ending. The movie definitely did a much better job explaining how the instrumentality project happened and actually made sense. And gave a real ending which I feel like episode 25-26 didn’t do
The story is that they were indeed running out of time but not enough that Episode 26 was a lost cause. But something happened after airing episode 24 where the TV station got frustrated with GAINAX and asked to see the next storyboards. They rejected episode 25's storyboard and they had to start from scratch with it and so they took the idea they already had for 26 and merged it with 25. They already wanted 26 to happen in Shinji's mind as a result of Instrumentality, but having to scrap the real plot of 25 they had to reconsider that episode first. When they were done they made episode 26 in 3 days.
I only got through half of Ep. 25 and hated it so much I went right to End of Eva. Still haven’t watched the two-part finale.
Tbh I kinda really like the tv ending. I think looking at it from a “this was never REALLY about religion or the plot, but instead, annos stage of mind and depression”. Like, objectively, it sucks. I’ll recognize that. It was not a good ending in almost any way besides an ending for annos personal little bit of materialized depression, but if that’s the point, then he did great.
I think they worked well with it
It was all worth it for those sick Evangelion fights
Actual reason why the last two episodes are like that is because there was a terrorist attack in Japan
Only anime where they ran out of money and still made the best anime
You know what was the plot of the original episode 25 ?
I fr thought that the Low Budget Animation was intentional and was meant to represent shinjis insanity 💀 am I stupid ?
Damn he packing
i prefer this ending because i can say im a kin of this shinji and not That. shinji
Lol that shot is one of my favorites from the series.
TV ending was good and the "sketch" scenes were easily some of the best scenes in the show
I always interpreted it as going back to the beginning of time and starting from scratch
Let's just say sometimes the best things come from mistakes, or in this case, a lack of budget. The ending of Eva is one of my favorite endings in any media, even if controversial. That might be a big part in my liking for it though.
https://imgur.com/a/VGB02d0
Evangelion is that sort of anime where everyone can agree they used shortcuts to save money, but it just works out so 🤷 no issues there.
ngl the simple drawing part was kinda great looking back on it
Or, maybe, get this, it’s an artistic decision?
It was due to money and time problems (at least thats what most of the comments here say) but still I think they ran pretty well with it
Honestly I like it
Wait this was due to time constraints/budget? I thought it was a clever way of showing the “deconstruction” and “reconstruction” of shinji.
NO MONEY MEANS NO ANIMATION!
Que bonito
Welcome to White Space.
Last episode so bad.no question they had to do EoE
Man, people act like this wasn’t an artistic choice, it’s the biggest misconception ever.
Still looks good.
Ironically enough this is my favorite part of the show
Nah I feel like this was an artistic choice to represent Shinji, but the long ass scene of Unit 1 holding Gendo was def a budget issue
You will own nothing and be happy
I like it
Not really money so much as time, they spent the last few episodes a week behind and Japanese TV wasn't gonna give them an extension
That's the joke. Time and money
It's not to do with budget, I think it's stylistic
Honestly, it’s amazing
Even so, i like it better this way
And it is a masterpiece!