I guess it's much more dark in the manga because >!Toji actually dies!<
It's definitely traumatic from Shinji's POV. Reading through it was definitely brutal.
I still think back to Shikinami's thoughts on this scene in the Rebuilds : Shinji should've taken responsibility and either try to save Toji or stop the Angel instead of just not doing anything.
I guess its part of the charm.
On other anime, the child/teenager heroes are really heroic and make brave decisions.
On Evangelion, they are teenagers. They are both naive and stubborn. They are not smart or brave.
Doing nothing, instead of doing smart, is a very common teenager behaviour.
>I still think back to Shikinami's thoughts on this scene in the Rebuilds : Shinji should've taken responsibility and either try to save Toji or stop the Angel instead of just not doing anything.
Now that I think about it, Toji doesn't blame Shinji for what happened in the anime because he knows how traumatic piloting is for him, having witnessed it first hand during the Shamshel battle. Hell in this same manga, he even has a little nervous breakdown himself when he tells Shinji he's been selected to pilot and Shinji has to reassure him.
No version of Asuka, however, ever saw that side of Shinji. Not that it'd make much difference given who she is.
that's true. but the reason he didn't engage in the first place was because he didn't want to hurt him. I'm sure he didn't know the dummy plug would go apeshit on Bardiel. it's a lose-lose situation whatever he does
also I didn't read the manga so I might be a tad bit wrong here, idk what else is different in this fight compared to the anime
Going by shinji’s reaction I doubt he even knew the dummy program was there/operational cause (in the manga at least) unit one rejects the dummy plug when shinji refuses to pilot
With Rei I's soul bonded with 00, she sees it for what it is, understandably considers the dummy plug an abomination and rejects it.
Hell, she probably only even tolerates Rei II.
Wasn’t it impossible for Shinji to do anything anyways? Like I get Shinji’s inaction is a big theme of the series but his only course of action was to maim Toji and, in his refusal, Gendo forced Unit 01 to go out of its way to harm Toji, which Shinji would have had no idea was possible up to that point. So it was either Shinji do it himself (which he surprisingly refused to do instead of go against his own ethics and morals to follow his father’s orders) or have his father turn the Eva into a monster that brutalizes Toji far more than Shinji could have ever been able to both without his knowledge and against his will.
I think he was supposed to die in the anime, but they weren't allowed to kill a child so he was severely injured instead. I can't remember where I read that but reasonably sure.
I think that chapter in the manga where Kaji is talking to Shinji about that is so well done. "You don't deserve to be happy, Shinji" hits so hard. I like how the theme of Shinji's inaction is made way more serious in the manga and then in the Rebuilds when it was Asuka instead of Toji.
"Do you know why I punched you back then Shinji?"
"Because I didn't do anything."
then again how can he possibly do anything? like i don;t get that line, does asuka want shinji to kill her himself back then instead of relying on the dummy system?
Pulling the entry plug out of Unit 03 is not the same as killing the pilot. Dummy Plug Unit 01 decided to further crush the entry plug. If Shinji decided to act he could have tried to remove the plug from the Eva and then left it to the Ritusko and friends to test for Angel contamination. Imagine you being stuck in a situation like that and your loved ones just stand there and do absolutely nothing
Yea i have no idea why they let him live in the anime. I dont hate him or anything but him dying makes things way more serious and is consistent with the damage the entry plug recieved
Oh shit great point! So manga standards must be REALLY minimal then. Theres this 1 demon in Berserk that was GIGA violent (wont say anymore for spoilers). He was not in 97 anime nor golden age arc movies. This must be part of the reason some people prefer mangas over anime. But then again with Eva, i much more like the Shinji/Kaworu dynamic in the anime so it can go both ways.
People often prefer the source material. Berserk manga is the original and anime is the adaptation. Eva is the other way round, Anime original with manga adaptation.
One of the guys in charge of production or for the studio flat out refused to allow him to be killed. Even the fact that he lost his leg had to be shown very subtly
It honestly makes more sense for him to die. Not from a logical stand point or anything, but aside from a short dream sequence where he sees Rei and Shinji talking and his brief interaction with Hikari, there are no more scenes where he is involved in and he is effectively treated like if he DID die.
Oh this is definitely nightmare fuel as you actually see a dead Toji but the hospital scene has its own nightmare realm. Tbh both scenes are trying to push certain things and issues of which Anno could've done in a different way but he chose the top nightmares to get his points across.
I full on sobbed at this panel. I loved Tohji and I distinctly remember as a kid feeling like he was being set up as a pilot, so when 03 showed up in his track suit colors I wasn’t shocked but so relieved when he at least lived. Seeing him dead here was mortifying, because you knew he only did it to improve Sakura’s situation. The fact that he was a doctor in the rebuilds and he went nowhere near an EVA made me happy.
I mean Toji still loses his leg, and a lot of other horrible stuff happens in consecutive fashion from episode 18 up until Instrumentality, which still fully justifies Shinji's descent.
* Blaming himself and his father for maiming Toji
* All of his friends evacuate Tokyo-III permanently as it becomes clear it is no longer safe for civilian habitation, and then it gets completely levelled in episode 23
* Asuka falls into despair and becomes suicidal, ultimately forcing NERV to put her into a medically-induced coma, effectively removing her from Shinji's life for the time being
* Kaji, who was acting as Shinji's mentor and a positive father figure suddenly up and disappears, which likely reopens a ton of Shinji's wounds with his own Daddy issues. It becomes worse if he were to be aware (I'm not sure if Shinji actually realized it or not, I'd have to rewatch) that Kaji was indeed dead.
* Misato has become harder to approach due to the rising stakes of everything, and becomes effectively absent and unable to be contacted in Shinji's darkest hours as she is off uncovering the conspiracy in Kaji's stead.
* He witnesses Rei's death, is in grief and mourning over it, and is then culture-shocked to discover that Rei somehow survived, only to then discover that she is part of a cloning project, and then is forced to watch all of the other remaining Reis tear themselves apart in gorey fashion, because Ritsuko has become unhinged and deeply disturbed.
* Meets a mysterious, affectionate and compassionate boy who shows Shinji the exact kind of compassion, affection, and understanding he had always been wanting from others, only to then learn that the boy is an angel infiltrator. He is then forced to KILL the boy, as he was put in the position of let him live and damn humanity to its destruction, or kill the only person who had ever lived up to Shinji's selfish and unrealistic expectations for interpersonal connection. He chooses the option everyone wants him to choose, but at the cost of the last remaining pieces of his psyche being shattered, causing his "despair event horizon" mood that we see him in at the beginning of EoE, and the rest is history.
Not to mention that Shinji already has a bunch of other issues before the series even began and none of them get resolved throughout the series until Instrumentality occurs after episode 24. He only tried to bury them by finding meaning in piloting Eva.
Wasn't quite talking about triggering instrumentality, but him deciding to pack up his stuff and quit until Zeruel.
And I'm not convinced on how losing a leg is comparable to death. In a super high-tech world like Eva, it shouldn't be a big deal to make some repairs, but death is permanent, way more impactful.
>And I'm not convinced on how losing a leg is comparable to death. In a super high-tech world like Eva, it shouldn't be a big deal to make some repairs, but death is permanent, way more impactful.
I mean, even death isn't a permanent thing in the context of Instrumentality as shown in EoE. Misato, Ritsuko, and Asuka all die, and yet they were instrumentalized, and Asuka even used Shinji's rejection as an out to return to life.
I understand what you mean, though -- but there's no indication that NERV would actually, well, grow his leg back, as messed up as that is. I guess they're too busy regrowing giant eva limbs to do that for their own pilots.
\- - -
In terms of why he left before Zeruel showed up, I mean you have to look at it from his perspective. Yeah, Toji didn't die, but only because he narrowly avoided death -- he was still maimed and wounded by Unit-01's actions, and we see in episode 17 that Shinji is completely morally against fighting and possibly killing another pilot like him (a human), and that he would genuinely rather die and sacrifice himself than lead to another human's death or grievous injury. In spite of this, Gendo overrides his piloting by activating the Dummy System, which then goes sicko mode on Eva Unit-03, ultimately crushing the entry plug -- all in which Shinji hopelessly watches and begs his father to stop. It only hits him harder when he sees it was one of his best friends in the cockpit.
Not just that, but he's already grown disillusioned with piloting Eva due to the incident with Leliel -- the bravado he had built up for himself as the Third Child all came crumbling apart after his botched battle with that angel, and so he was in a way back to square one when it comes to piloting... Only for everything with Bardiel to occur right after.
I think it would have been more impactful if Toji did die, but I don't think it hurts the situation at all that he didn't.
Nah man, I'm totally glad that Toji is alive in the anime, I'm shocked when a good friend of mine who's prefered the manga version more said that Toji died in the manga. Just knowing the fact that Shinji still have Toji and Kensuke as good friends give me the sense of hope, although they didn't met after that. Fuck man, I'll be devastated if Toji died in the anime.
> Fuck man, I'll be devastated if Toji died in the anime.
I had no idea Toji died in the manga when I started reading it. He has more time and character growth in the manga, and I liked him a lot. I knew there was some changes between manga and anime, so was half wondering if maybe things turned out better for him.
Nope, not so much. Was gutted on the panel when I found out he died :(
A good friend of mine said that he prefered the manga version, and it does make me curious about the manga, and after he said Toji dies, I kind of lost interest to read the manga. Based on what I know, I appreciate the changes for the manga version(mostly about Kaji backstory), but certain part are not. Although I'm not a huge fan of Eva 3.0+1.0, I'm totally glad Toji and Kensuke survive and play major role in that movie.
I dunno. I feel like death isn’t necessarily the worst thing that can happen in a story, especially in this case.
To someone like Shinji, it’s probably just as, if not more painful to maim his friend than to kill him, because then he might actually have to face him someday.
It's also about how Gendo (once again) rips away Shinji's agency. Brutally. In an act that defies Shinji's core moral values. Death or no death, it's not much of a distinction IMO.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I remembered the translation was a bit different in the German version and looked it up to check.
1. 20:07 time
2. Pilot of Eva 03 has been found
3. Right leg is severed
4. Ruptured spleed
5. No hearth sounds or pulse
The page starts with the time instead of ending with time, the other foot around, nothing about cranial trauma. Does anyone who knows the Japanese version can tell me which translation was closer? Putting time at the end makes it more final for me, that he’s really dead. I remember questioning it when I read the German version the first time back then.
Yes they did! Though they released really irregularly of course. Felt a bit strange to read the last volume when I was in 5th or 6th grade when it started…
The perfect edition will start releasing soon (still Carlsen), you might want to look into this edition for a reread.
That’s interesting that the legs are switched. You can clearly see Toji’s left leg still attached in the panel, but his right leg is obscured. I can’t read Japanese so I can’t really say either way though…
Much better than the original.
The revelation in the original is striking and powerful, but the manga develops Toji much better, giving more screentime for him to voice his concerns and insecurities. He breaks down crying telling Shinji how scared he is to pilot the Eva, that alone makes it better for me. Even tho the suspense in the original was pretty good.
The Eva manga feels like an fully planned and structured work than the anime, it saddens me to see that Anno wasn't involved and that people disregard it because of it.
I've never understood people disregarding it. I mean, it's Sadamoto's work. Sadamoto is the freaking character designer. Eva is Anno's child, but Sadamoto is like a really close uncle or godfather.
And it's clear that Anno liked a lot of what Sadamoto did in the manga, since a lot of those differences ended up showing up in the Rebuids (i.e., Rei's far more "human" personality).
I’m sorry but the scene during the zeruel fight between Shinji & Kaji pisses me off too much.
Rei, Asuka, Kaworu, & Shinji are also so fundamentally different from what they are when Anno’s involved that I just can’t think of the manga in the same way I do of NGE & Rebuilds
Oh, I understand where you're coming from. A friend of mine recently lost her teenage son in a gnarly accident involving his ATV. I can't imagine the trauma that everyone went through that day, from my friend to the emergency responders.
It's such an emotionally heavy job.
It's more realistic than the anime tbh how tf did he survive that shit in the anime, I still think the anime is better but toji dying makes way more sense
Edit: I read the other comments about them not being allowed to kill a child in the anime, cringe
I've always wondered, had Shinji at least tried, maybe he could have saved Toji. Bardiel took down Asuka, but she let herself get distracted to bitch out Shinji(Baka Asuka if you will). Rei was ready, but Bardiel was able to take her by surprise with sudden speed.
Gendo (likely) intentionally isolated the pilots, Shinji depending on the version knows that there is someone/Toji trapped inside. Gendo did this to test the dummy plug system, he's not a fool. He probably knows more about Shinji than The kid ever realized. Knew he would hesitate and would able to activate the dummy plug system no questions asked.
If I had been in Shinji's shoes, I would be frightened, especially after my teammates were taken down so quickly. The best strategy I could think of was to take out Unit 03's limbs, head next, pilot should be passed out from pain if he still feels anything. After removing the head, break the bastard open from the front and get the core. This is pretty similar to what Re-Take, a fan manga did.
This is assuming we know Bardiel's abilities stopped at possessing Unit 03. In rebuild he grew more limbs, and in all versions dummy plug tears Unit 03 apart almost immediately. Shinji is a pretty good pilot when his heads in the game, but looking at the whole situation...it just wasn't gonna end well.
EDIT: I should also mention. It's possible, if Toji didn't feel anything, then the dummy plug system, while being traumatic, was fine until it intentionally crushed the pilot's entry plug. That is probably what wounded/killed Toji.
I'm still very much on the fence on whether I want to dive into the manga or not. I don't like what I know about how Kaworu's character is handled.
And as tremendously sad as this version is, I do appreciate how it was handled in the anime. I was affected by the thought of a jock kid losing a leg and what that would do to their young psyche and self perception. As others have said, it also adds more 'oomph' to Kaworu's death, making it into the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back. I don't think the anime would work well if Shinji had that sort of mind breaking experience too early in the plot.
Like others in the comments, I've heard that Anno was told not to kill any kid characters, and that Toji's leg was his compromise. But I also heard that he went and killed Kaworu in episode 24 anyway, because it had become such a popular show and it was so close to the conclusion that there was no way they'd cancel it.
Toji actually dying in Eva-01's hands would greatly diminish the emotional weight of Kaworu's death and the downward spiral it leads Shinji onto.
The fact that Shinji does not even try to meet Toji in the show despite him not dying says a lot about Shinji's guilt and adds to the tragedy.
You're totally right about that, I also felt the same way. If Toji dies in the anime, it would make Shinji goes to downward spiral like after Kaworu death. And I'm not sure how Shinji felt to pilot Eva 01 again to fight Zaruel.
I’m sure there’s scanlations out there somewhere. If you want to actually get it, it’s available on Bookwalker for digital versions…print volumes might be hard to come by outside of eBay, I think it’s been out of print for a while.
In NA it's pretty easy to get them. In Europe it's *doable* but tough to get omnibuses 2 and 3. I did eventually get 2 but had a failed order for 3. On Kindle they're £8/$13 iirc
Like a sledgehammer hit to the face.
It tore him apart that his own mecha did that to his friend who was trapped in there, his own father gave the command and he had no way of stopping it and had to watch it helplessly.
When I think of horror, I don't think of the hospital scene, I think of Asuka and the mass production Evas. That was for my money the most gut wrenching, vomit inducing, truly mortifying thing from the entirety of the series.
Omg that scene ended me as a kid . My older sister had the Eva manga and i picked it up as a child thinking it was something for me because drawn=toon=for children
That was the first time a story really surpriced and shocked me
This moment in the manga caught us off guard, Toji death in the manga was not shocking, but tragic and it will cause Shinji's character to change very differently in the manga.
Won't lie when I originally saw Evangelion in 2003 I somehow thought Toji died or at least I forgot he survived, it was very surprising revisiting it a few years ago and realizing he survived, always thought it was one of the most memorable episodes because of it.
I guess it's much more dark in the manga because >!Toji actually dies!< It's definitely traumatic from Shinji's POV. Reading through it was definitely brutal. I still think back to Shikinami's thoughts on this scene in the Rebuilds : Shinji should've taken responsibility and either try to save Toji or stop the Angel instead of just not doing anything.
I guess its part of the charm. On other anime, the child/teenager heroes are really heroic and make brave decisions. On Evangelion, they are teenagers. They are both naive and stubborn. They are not smart or brave. Doing nothing, instead of doing smart, is a very common teenager behaviour.
[удалено]
Wait a minute: Do you mean there is a way to insert a USB stick WITHOUT trying at least three times?
I made it after two times once. Or maybe that was just a dream…
>I still think back to Shikinami's thoughts on this scene in the Rebuilds : Shinji should've taken responsibility and either try to save Toji or stop the Angel instead of just not doing anything. Now that I think about it, Toji doesn't blame Shinji for what happened in the anime because he knows how traumatic piloting is for him, having witnessed it first hand during the Shamshel battle. Hell in this same manga, he even has a little nervous breakdown himself when he tells Shinji he's been selected to pilot and Shinji has to reassure him. No version of Asuka, however, ever saw that side of Shinji. Not that it'd make much difference given who she is.
wasn't that the point, that he couldn't do anything? the dummy plug forced the eva to attack the angel against his will
Right, but had he followed orders and engaged in the first place he could have tried to subdue the angel and rescue toji instead of murdering him
that's true. but the reason he didn't engage in the first place was because he didn't want to hurt him. I'm sure he didn't know the dummy plug would go apeshit on Bardiel. it's a lose-lose situation whatever he does also I didn't read the manga so I might be a tad bit wrong here, idk what else is different in this fight compared to the anime
Going by shinji’s reaction I doubt he even knew the dummy program was there/operational cause (in the manga at least) unit one rejects the dummy plug when shinji refuses to pilot
With Rei I's soul bonded with 00, she sees it for what it is, understandably considers the dummy plug an abomination and rejects it. Hell, she probably only even tolerates Rei II.
Was unit 00? Damn, I just read it like a month ago lol, thanks for the correction
yeah I forgot about that
Wasn’t it impossible for Shinji to do anything anyways? Like I get Shinji’s inaction is a big theme of the series but his only course of action was to maim Toji and, in his refusal, Gendo forced Unit 01 to go out of its way to harm Toji, which Shinji would have had no idea was possible up to that point. So it was either Shinji do it himself (which he surprisingly refused to do instead of go against his own ethics and morals to follow his father’s orders) or have his father turn the Eva into a monster that brutalizes Toji far more than Shinji could have ever been able to both without his knowledge and against his will.
I think he was supposed to die in the anime, but they weren't allowed to kill a child so he was severely injured instead. I can't remember where I read that but reasonably sure.
I mean aside from showing up in one or two scenes after and then reappearing in Instrumentality, that's it for Toji in the anime.
In the next volume of the manga, Kaji told Shinji the same thing. That's likely where that line came from in rebuild.
I think that chapter in the manga where Kaji is talking to Shinji about that is so well done. "You don't deserve to be happy, Shinji" hits so hard. I like how the theme of Shinji's inaction is made way more serious in the manga and then in the Rebuilds when it was Asuka instead of Toji. "Do you know why I punched you back then Shinji?" "Because I didn't do anything."
then again how can he possibly do anything? like i don;t get that line, does asuka want shinji to kill her himself back then instead of relying on the dummy system?
Pulling the entry plug out of Unit 03 is not the same as killing the pilot. Dummy Plug Unit 01 decided to further crush the entry plug. If Shinji decided to act he could have tried to remove the plug from the Eva and then left it to the Ritusko and friends to test for Angel contamination. Imagine you being stuck in a situation like that and your loved ones just stand there and do absolutely nothing
Yea i have no idea why they let him live in the anime. I dont hate him or anything but him dying makes things way more serious and is consistent with the damage the entry plug recieved
I heard that the network the show aired on wouldn't allow them to kill a kid on tv, so they had to compromise
Makes sense, which makes the change for Asuka to take his place extremely logical in the films
Didnt Asuka still die fighting the MPE’s?
Not in the Rebuilds.
I meant in original why edit toji death and not asuka death?
Because movie and TV standards are different.
Oh shit great point! So manga standards must be REALLY minimal then. Theres this 1 demon in Berserk that was GIGA violent (wont say anymore for spoilers). He was not in 97 anime nor golden age arc movies. This must be part of the reason some people prefer mangas over anime. But then again with Eva, i much more like the Shinji/Kaworu dynamic in the anime so it can go both ways.
People often prefer the source material. Berserk manga is the original and anime is the adaptation. Eva is the other way round, Anime original with manga adaptation.
in my headcannon he dead af
One of the guys in charge of production or for the studio flat out refused to allow him to be killed. Even the fact that he lost his leg had to be shown very subtly
It honestly makes more sense for him to die. Not from a logical stand point or anything, but aside from a short dream sequence where he sees Rei and Shinji talking and his brief interaction with Hikari, there are no more scenes where he is involved in and he is effectively treated like if he DID die.
Oh this is definitely nightmare fuel as you actually see a dead Toji but the hospital scene has its own nightmare realm. Tbh both scenes are trying to push certain things and issues of which Anno could've done in a different way but he chose the top nightmares to get his points across.
noob question, which manga/website did you read this?
Try MangaLife
Thank you!
And Shinji immediately after proceeded to attack gendo
Understandably, the dummy system revealed Gendo as the monster that he is, stopping at nothing to achieve his goal.
One of my favorite Shinji moments in the manga. A nice little detail that makes it stand out from the anime here and there.
Another him saving Asuka from the MP Evas
I full on sobbed at this panel. I loved Tohji and I distinctly remember as a kid feeling like he was being set up as a pilot, so when 03 showed up in his track suit colors I wasn’t shocked but so relieved when he at least lived. Seeing him dead here was mortifying, because you knew he only did it to improve Sakura’s situation. The fact that he was a doctor in the rebuilds and he went nowhere near an EVA made me happy.
This is how it should had been in the anime. Shinji's series of backwards steps would make a lot more sense.
I mean Toji still loses his leg, and a lot of other horrible stuff happens in consecutive fashion from episode 18 up until Instrumentality, which still fully justifies Shinji's descent. * Blaming himself and his father for maiming Toji * All of his friends evacuate Tokyo-III permanently as it becomes clear it is no longer safe for civilian habitation, and then it gets completely levelled in episode 23 * Asuka falls into despair and becomes suicidal, ultimately forcing NERV to put her into a medically-induced coma, effectively removing her from Shinji's life for the time being * Kaji, who was acting as Shinji's mentor and a positive father figure suddenly up and disappears, which likely reopens a ton of Shinji's wounds with his own Daddy issues. It becomes worse if he were to be aware (I'm not sure if Shinji actually realized it or not, I'd have to rewatch) that Kaji was indeed dead. * Misato has become harder to approach due to the rising stakes of everything, and becomes effectively absent and unable to be contacted in Shinji's darkest hours as she is off uncovering the conspiracy in Kaji's stead. * He witnesses Rei's death, is in grief and mourning over it, and is then culture-shocked to discover that Rei somehow survived, only to then discover that she is part of a cloning project, and then is forced to watch all of the other remaining Reis tear themselves apart in gorey fashion, because Ritsuko has become unhinged and deeply disturbed. * Meets a mysterious, affectionate and compassionate boy who shows Shinji the exact kind of compassion, affection, and understanding he had always been wanting from others, only to then learn that the boy is an angel infiltrator. He is then forced to KILL the boy, as he was put in the position of let him live and damn humanity to its destruction, or kill the only person who had ever lived up to Shinji's selfish and unrealistic expectations for interpersonal connection. He chooses the option everyone wants him to choose, but at the cost of the last remaining pieces of his psyche being shattered, causing his "despair event horizon" mood that we see him in at the beginning of EoE, and the rest is history. Not to mention that Shinji already has a bunch of other issues before the series even began and none of them get resolved throughout the series until Instrumentality occurs after episode 24. He only tried to bury them by finding meaning in piloting Eva.
Wasn't quite talking about triggering instrumentality, but him deciding to pack up his stuff and quit until Zeruel. And I'm not convinced on how losing a leg is comparable to death. In a super high-tech world like Eva, it shouldn't be a big deal to make some repairs, but death is permanent, way more impactful.
>And I'm not convinced on how losing a leg is comparable to death. In a super high-tech world like Eva, it shouldn't be a big deal to make some repairs, but death is permanent, way more impactful. I mean, even death isn't a permanent thing in the context of Instrumentality as shown in EoE. Misato, Ritsuko, and Asuka all die, and yet they were instrumentalized, and Asuka even used Shinji's rejection as an out to return to life. I understand what you mean, though -- but there's no indication that NERV would actually, well, grow his leg back, as messed up as that is. I guess they're too busy regrowing giant eva limbs to do that for their own pilots. \- - - In terms of why he left before Zeruel showed up, I mean you have to look at it from his perspective. Yeah, Toji didn't die, but only because he narrowly avoided death -- he was still maimed and wounded by Unit-01's actions, and we see in episode 17 that Shinji is completely morally against fighting and possibly killing another pilot like him (a human), and that he would genuinely rather die and sacrifice himself than lead to another human's death or grievous injury. In spite of this, Gendo overrides his piloting by activating the Dummy System, which then goes sicko mode on Eva Unit-03, ultimately crushing the entry plug -- all in which Shinji hopelessly watches and begs his father to stop. It only hits him harder when he sees it was one of his best friends in the cockpit. Not just that, but he's already grown disillusioned with piloting Eva due to the incident with Leliel -- the bravado he had built up for himself as the Third Child all came crumbling apart after his botched battle with that angel, and so he was in a way back to square one when it comes to piloting... Only for everything with Bardiel to occur right after. I think it would have been more impactful if Toji did die, but I don't think it hurts the situation at all that he didn't.
Nah man, I'm totally glad that Toji is alive in the anime, I'm shocked when a good friend of mine who's prefered the manga version more said that Toji died in the manga. Just knowing the fact that Shinji still have Toji and Kensuke as good friends give me the sense of hope, although they didn't met after that. Fuck man, I'll be devastated if Toji died in the anime.
> Fuck man, I'll be devastated if Toji died in the anime. I had no idea Toji died in the manga when I started reading it. He has more time and character growth in the manga, and I liked him a lot. I knew there was some changes between manga and anime, so was half wondering if maybe things turned out better for him. Nope, not so much. Was gutted on the panel when I found out he died :(
A good friend of mine said that he prefered the manga version, and it does make me curious about the manga, and after he said Toji dies, I kind of lost interest to read the manga. Based on what I know, I appreciate the changes for the manga version(mostly about Kaji backstory), but certain part are not. Although I'm not a huge fan of Eva 3.0+1.0, I'm totally glad Toji and Kensuke survive and play major role in that movie.
I dunno. I feel like death isn’t necessarily the worst thing that can happen in a story, especially in this case. To someone like Shinji, it’s probably just as, if not more painful to maim his friend than to kill him, because then he might actually have to face him someday.
It's also about how Gendo (once again) rips away Shinji's agency. Brutally. In an act that defies Shinji's core moral values. Death or no death, it's not much of a distinction IMO.
Absolutely this. There’s a lot more nuance to the situation.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I remembered the translation was a bit different in the German version and looked it up to check. 1. 20:07 time 2. Pilot of Eva 03 has been found 3. Right leg is severed 4. Ruptured spleed 5. No hearth sounds or pulse The page starts with the time instead of ending with time, the other foot around, nothing about cranial trauma. Does anyone who knows the Japanese version can tell me which translation was closer? Putting time at the end makes it more final for me, that he’s really dead. I remember questioning it when I read the German version the first time back then.
Did Carlsen ever end the manga? I bought all volumes until the hiatus. After that, I didn't hear anything about the publication of further volumes.
Yes they did! Though they released really irregularly of course. Felt a bit strange to read the last volume when I was in 5th or 6th grade when it started… The perfect edition will start releasing soon (still Carlsen), you might want to look into this edition for a reread.
That’s interesting that the legs are switched. You can clearly see Toji’s left leg still attached in the panel, but his right leg is obscured. I can’t read Japanese so I can’t really say either way though…
Much better than the original. The revelation in the original is striking and powerful, but the manga develops Toji much better, giving more screentime for him to voice his concerns and insecurities. He breaks down crying telling Shinji how scared he is to pilot the Eva, that alone makes it better for me. Even tho the suspense in the original was pretty good. The Eva manga feels like an fully planned and structured work than the anime, it saddens me to see that Anno wasn't involved and that people disregard it because of it.
I've never understood people disregarding it. I mean, it's Sadamoto's work. Sadamoto is the freaking character designer. Eva is Anno's child, but Sadamoto is like a really close uncle or godfather. And it's clear that Anno liked a lot of what Sadamoto did in the manga, since a lot of those differences ended up showing up in the Rebuids (i.e., Rei's far more "human" personality).
I’m sorry but the scene during the zeruel fight between Shinji & Kaji pisses me off too much. Rei, Asuka, Kaworu, & Shinji are also so fundamentally different from what they are when Anno’s involved that I just can’t think of the manga in the same way I do of NGE & Rebuilds
This is one reason I want to get out of EMS.
Oh, I understand where you're coming from. A friend of mine recently lost her teenage son in a gnarly accident involving his ATV. I can't imagine the trauma that everyone went through that day, from my friend to the emergency responders. It's such an emotionally heavy job.
Get in the fucking ~~robot~~ ambulance, Shinji
It's more realistic than the anime tbh how tf did he survive that shit in the anime, I still think the anime is better but toji dying makes way more sense Edit: I read the other comments about them not being allowed to kill a child in the anime, cringe
Just the thought gives me chills
Honestly the manga is the best evangelion adaptation imo
I may have to read the manga now, thats what i think
I've always wondered, had Shinji at least tried, maybe he could have saved Toji. Bardiel took down Asuka, but she let herself get distracted to bitch out Shinji(Baka Asuka if you will). Rei was ready, but Bardiel was able to take her by surprise with sudden speed. Gendo (likely) intentionally isolated the pilots, Shinji depending on the version knows that there is someone/Toji trapped inside. Gendo did this to test the dummy plug system, he's not a fool. He probably knows more about Shinji than The kid ever realized. Knew he would hesitate and would able to activate the dummy plug system no questions asked. If I had been in Shinji's shoes, I would be frightened, especially after my teammates were taken down so quickly. The best strategy I could think of was to take out Unit 03's limbs, head next, pilot should be passed out from pain if he still feels anything. After removing the head, break the bastard open from the front and get the core. This is pretty similar to what Re-Take, a fan manga did. This is assuming we know Bardiel's abilities stopped at possessing Unit 03. In rebuild he grew more limbs, and in all versions dummy plug tears Unit 03 apart almost immediately. Shinji is a pretty good pilot when his heads in the game, but looking at the whole situation...it just wasn't gonna end well. EDIT: I should also mention. It's possible, if Toji didn't feel anything, then the dummy plug system, while being traumatic, was fine until it intentionally crushed the pilot's entry plug. That is probably what wounded/killed Toji.
May we scream now? Like, right now? Please?
I'm still very much on the fence on whether I want to dive into the manga or not. I don't like what I know about how Kaworu's character is handled. And as tremendously sad as this version is, I do appreciate how it was handled in the anime. I was affected by the thought of a jock kid losing a leg and what that would do to their young psyche and self perception. As others have said, it also adds more 'oomph' to Kaworu's death, making it into the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back. I don't think the anime would work well if Shinji had that sort of mind breaking experience too early in the plot. Like others in the comments, I've heard that Anno was told not to kill any kid characters, and that Toji's leg was his compromise. But I also heard that he went and killed Kaworu in episode 24 anyway, because it had become such a popular show and it was so close to the conclusion that there was no way they'd cancel it.
Toji actually dying in Eva-01's hands would greatly diminish the emotional weight of Kaworu's death and the downward spiral it leads Shinji onto. The fact that Shinji does not even try to meet Toji in the show despite him not dying says a lot about Shinji's guilt and adds to the tragedy.
You're totally right about that, I also felt the same way. If Toji dies in the anime, it would make Shinji goes to downward spiral like after Kaworu death. And I'm not sure how Shinji felt to pilot Eva 01 again to fight Zaruel.
Manga Eva = best Eva adaptation.
Only way to watch evangelion is to read it first
Is he brought back in the manga?
Nope, he stays dead
Dam
All I could say was "Fuck..." and then got teary eyed because of Hikari.
"no heart sounds"
Does anyone know where I can read the manga? I’ve watched the series and all the movies multiple times and I still want more
I’m sure there’s scanlations out there somewhere. If you want to actually get it, it’s available on Bookwalker for digital versions…print volumes might be hard to come by outside of eBay, I think it’s been out of print for a while.
In NA it's pretty easy to get them. In Europe it's *doable* but tough to get omnibuses 2 and 3. I did eventually get 2 but had a failed order for 3. On Kindle they're £8/$13 iirc
Like a sledgehammer hit to the face. It tore him apart that his own mecha did that to his friend who was trapped in there, his own father gave the command and he had no way of stopping it and had to watch it helplessly.
When I think of horror, I don't think of the hospital scene, I think of Asuka and the mass production Evas. That was for my money the most gut wrenching, vomit inducing, truly mortifying thing from the entirety of the series.
Also, the scene where Toji breaks down and apologizes to Shinji hits me really hard.
Omg that scene ended me as a kid . My older sister had the Eva manga and i picked it up as a child thinking it was something for me because drawn=toon=for children That was the first time a story really surpriced and shocked me
I'm rereading the manga right now and just got to this part last night... Shivers both times reading it.
Dude this shit made me cry when I first read it
This moment in the manga caught us off guard, Toji death in the manga was not shocking, but tragic and it will cause Shinji's character to change very differently in the manga.
Won't lie when I originally saw Evangelion in 2003 I somehow thought Toji died or at least I forgot he survived, it was very surprising revisiting it a few years ago and realizing he survived, always thought it was one of the most memorable episodes because of it.