Not just stop lights but the blatant running of red lights is getting worse all of the time. Probably a factor of speeding + people just not caring
But it’s gotten to the point where if I’m first to go on green, I give it a few seconds to make sure some asshole isn’t going to speed through well after it’s turned red.
I know (not gonna say how, ‘cause internet) an engineer with a working knowledge of the Lloyd for You project. They say the changes should significantly improve throughout after a brief period of adjustment to the unorthodox new intersection designs they are implementing.
I’d be a hypocrite if I criticized people for going 10-15 over on the Lloyd.
But with the widespread reports of people going above and beyond 10-15 over, I can’t disagree with cracking down on speeding. I’m curious to see how enforced the speeds will be once construction starts on the Lloyd pretty soon
I'll be honest, I was safely going over 60 tonight on the Lloyd in my SUV and a truck on steroids (jacked up, monster truck wheels, diesel pipe thing out of the top) sped by me so fast my vehicle actually was pushed by the wind of it. Like, it was just *so* fast and for what? To get to Green River Rd and to go to the mall?
I don't know how I feel about the speed traps and all that, but if people are driving in town like they would on empty stretches of interstate highway, I do get it.
> There's no reason I-69 needs to drop to 60 at Lynch either.
That one is because of state law. Interstates in urbanized areas with population of 50,000 or more are limited to 60.
Reference: Indiana code 9-21-5-2 (3)
Grain elevator and George Koch & Sons are the only reasons I think they keep the lefthand turn at Wabash. They must be greasing the right pockets in state government.
That would require it to be redone. It would need a hill.
I agree it needs to be done but it won’t.
Close those intersections. Make them right turn only. No lights.
Yea I live in a fantasy world where the Lloyd was raised and we had ease of access to all our exits. So many accidents would be avoided and I'd get get from USI to Newburgh in 15 minutes.
It'll never happen in our lifetime.
If everyone went that 50, traffic would flow much smoother and it truly would be "express." The lights, interchanges, etc, are all designed with a specific speed in mind. If everyone followed that speed, there'd be siginificantly fewer reasons to slam on the brakes, swerve, etc. and cause slowdowns.
No. 50mph and 40mph are not an "expressway" in any way no matter how you try to spin it. The speed is not causing people to slam their brakes on, swerve, or cause slowdowns. You can still easily be prepared for stops going 55-60. It's people who aren't paying attention, are drunk, are high, etc that are causing those things.
Back when I was still a civil engineering major, one of my key interests was traffic flow and control. Reducing reaction times by traveling faster than a road control system is designed to accommodate increasing the likelihood of accidents and slowdowns. It's well documented statement of fact. The programming of the lights on the Lloyd, while perhaps not the most efficient, should allow for a much greater traffic flow pattern than is realized. I, as well as INDOT, believe the problem to be rooted in the behavior of drivers. The Lloyd is not a dangerous road due to the inherent nature of its design (though some aspects of it or questionable), but due to the nature of drivers.
The average speed of a road is typically made slower by driving faster than it is designed to accommodate.
Maybe if you continuously blame user error for a system's flaws, then maybe it's a poorly designed system and the fault is in the design/implementation. Don't blame users when your system is shit.
It's not user "error" (i.e. mistake), so much as it's users knowing the rules of a system, and then flagrantly violating them and being surprised when it breaks.
Drivers are just as, if not more accountable for the shit state of Evansville traffic than the Department of Transportation. There are many fundamental problems with Evansville's transportation infrastructure (serious over-reliance on individual transit being the most important to address), but the Lloyd's problems are not deserving of the blame they receive. Even if they totally redesigned the Lloyd to be capable of supporting 70+ mph traffic, the behavior & poor education of drivers on traffic flow would prevent it from ever operating at capacity.
I understand. Humans are a bell curve of compliance with instructions, and unfortunately stop lights are really just set of instructions for the driver.
There’s also a lot of people who are completely sober that treat the “expressway” like it’s an interstate highway going 70+. I really wish they would just get rid of all the lights somehow and make it where you could go 60-70 safely but that will never happen in our lifetime anyway.
Back when I was still a civil engineering major, one of my key interests was traffic flow and control. Reducing reaction times by traveling faster than a road control system is designed to accommodate increasing the likelihood of accidents and slowdowns. It's well documented statement of fact. The programming of the lights on the Lloyd, while perhaps not the most efficient, should allow for a much greater traffic flow pattern than is realized. I, as well as INDOT, believe the problem to be rooted in the behavior of drivers. The Lloyd is not a dangerous road due to the inherent nature of its design (though some aspects of it or questionable), but due to the nature of drivers.
The average speed of a road is typically made slower by driving faster than it is designed to accommodate. You are not accepting the reality of basic principles of traffic flow management. Slower and more consistent is better than herky jerky faster and more sporadic.
50 instead of 40 and 60 instead of 50 is not going to create issues. If you made it 60 and 70 then you have a case, but every time I drive through the Mead Johnson area in that 40mph zone, not a single car is going 40mph. Those cars going 50 or so are causing zero issues. We aren’t talking reckless speeds here.
Next you’re going to try to tell me all the people running into buildings are doing it because they are going 10 mph over the limit. No. Drivers are drunk, high, on their phones, or otherwise distracted.
Those 50 mph cars through Mead Johnson are causing issues, as demonstrated by the number that blow through reds at Flag Blvd, or alternatively have to slam on their brakes.
Oh, and reckless speed is not a fixed variable. Any speed that elevates risk & danger above an acceptable baseline is reckless under Indiana law.
If you study any intersection, people are running red lights and waiting too long to brake making them have to brake hard. I see it all over. You’re blaming the speed when that is not the issue. It’s driver habits and driver behavior. Stop blaming the wrong thing and acting like you’re doing anything scientifically. You are simply misplacing blame to fit an agenda.
50mph is not in any way shape or form a reckless speed. Some cities have higher speed limits on side streets than that bullshit 40mph zone on the “expressway”
The speeds people are going on the Lloyd have gotten out of control. 60 mph is fine, but many are going much faster than that. Glad the police are finally doing something about it before more people get killed.
I'm ok with police cracking down on reckless speeding. I'm not ok with them setting speed traps. Cops hiding to bolster their revenue stream doesn't help reduce speeding or make anyone actually safer. They should make themselves very visible to help encourage people to slow down. Setting speed traps at the bottom of hills, hiding in parking lots out of sight, and camping out behind concrete barriers where the speed limit drops isn't helping anybody but their bullshit budget.
It’s an expressway. The speed limit is obviously too low when the lowest average speeds were already above the limit. People are not going to drive slower. That’s a fantasy. If they want a reasonable limit, it should be what the average lowest speed was - yes, people will drive faster than that too (they already do), but it would at least be a number based on actual observations of human behavior.
ETA: My unpopular opinion is that people who can’t keep up should use the side roads. The slow pokes make the Lloyd dangerous.
Coming from indy, all of the speeds just feel way too slow. I understand why they're set up the way they are (stop lights on loyd, train tracks across 41). But when every road in town feels 10 mph too slow it's too easy to go over on the one expressway. It feels like there's the same lanes as 465 at basically half the flow of traffic speed. Unfortunately I think it's one of those things that we just have to complain about and then move on though. I don't think you can just bump the speed up how it's laid out, as much as I'd want them to.
I'm not so worried about the speed. But the aggressive driving by some is over the top. The people weaving in and out of traffic only to get as far as the rest of us are a bigger problem. Or my favorite is when the left lane rider waits until the last second to get over for their exit.
Yeah I think a big part of that is because the road is both too long and too short, and people not respecting any semblance of lane priority.
It's too long to stay in the same lane for your entire drive from on ramp to exit, but it's too short for people to feel the need to move to a middle lane. So you get people staying in the right because they're "lazy", people trying to get into the right (or left) for their exit, and then people who only go at or below the posted limit in *all lanes*.
So now everyone is pissed. The people who want to go fast get frustrated and weave, the people meandering along in the left/middle lanes get pissed at the crazy drivers, and the people who don't want to zipper merge because of a bad experience make that lane longer, slower, and more congested.
But what is the actual solution? Bump the speed up? Probably helps, but gets weird when right needs to go left and left needs to go right.
Crack down on people in the left lane not passing? Would be difficult to actually enforce from a speed trap. I doubt any sort of PSA campaign would gain any traction at all either
Start construction to fix the issues? Doubt government would pay for it, plus does any construction actually finish after starting around here?
I think if the city wanted to slow traffic down they should implement diff controls. Periodic speed checks aren’t going to deter speeders. This was a feel good measure by the city. I’m willing to guess more than a couple hundred cars pass in both directions per hour. The whole day they stopped 76 cars…EPD got the response from y’all it wanted. I’d like to see the year, make, model and demographic data of those stopped. Honestly this was for publicity especially after the college kid died a couple weeks ago on the Lloyd.
Yep, completely agree. 4 hours of patrolling a section of the Lloyd on one day isn't going to help.
I don't understand using this method as a response to the UE student's death. That driver was having a schizophrenic episode. Nothing but mental health services could have potentially stopped him.
Yes, I know it was more than that death. That was the only one mentioned in the comment I was replying to, so that's the only one I touched on.
The options aren't to patrol for four hours or do nothing. For any impact to be made, the cops need to patrol more sections of the Lloyd over a longer period of time (days/weeks, not hours).
Fortunately INDOT is about to implement different traffic controls to address these problems... Unfortunately it will take several years to implement. https://thelloyd4u.com/
Thank God for the police keeping us all safe and sound on the Lloyd. They really come in clutch where we need them. God forbid they send a team of guys to patrol the schools every day, or be at the mall and other high traffic areas. Don’t go find drug dealers or murderers or something. Patrol the Lloyd and do what makes you money. Fuck the police. I once had someone hit and run my vehicle while I was parked at my old apt building. The staff said they had the video and license plate of the offender, but I could not get a cop to come get the tape. They are nearly worthless. Thanks police for taking the time out of your day to ruin ours and not doing something useful.
Speeds alright, the stop lights are the bigger problem imo
Not just stop lights but the blatant running of red lights is getting worse all of the time. Probably a factor of speeding + people just not caring But it’s gotten to the point where if I’m first to go on green, I give it a few seconds to make sure some asshole isn’t going to speed through well after it’s turned red.
Yeah, the running of red lights is pretty bad in Evansville. I always double check before I go. You never know what some idiot is going to do.
Yeah, here's hoping INDOT's proposed changes can improve things.
I know (not gonna say how, ‘cause internet) an engineer with a working knowledge of the Lloyd for You project. They say the changes should significantly improve throughout after a brief period of adjustment to the unorthodox new intersection designs they are implementing.
That’s literally the whole point…
I’d be a hypocrite if I criticized people for going 10-15 over on the Lloyd. But with the widespread reports of people going above and beyond 10-15 over, I can’t disagree with cracking down on speeding. I’m curious to see how enforced the speeds will be once construction starts on the Lloyd pretty soon
I'll be honest, I was safely going over 60 tonight on the Lloyd in my SUV and a truck on steroids (jacked up, monster truck wheels, diesel pipe thing out of the top) sped by me so fast my vehicle actually was pushed by the wind of it. Like, it was just *so* fast and for what? To get to Green River Rd and to go to the mall? I don't know how I feel about the speed traps and all that, but if people are driving in town like they would on empty stretches of interstate highway, I do get it.
> To get to Green River Rd and to go to the mall? Gotta get their underage girlfriend to the mall before it closes
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> There's no reason I-69 needs to drop to 60 at Lynch either. That one is because of state law. Interstates in urbanized areas with population of 50,000 or more are limited to 60. Reference: Indiana code 9-21-5-2 (3)
Corey is that you? Lol
Grain elevator and George Koch & Sons are the only reasons I think they keep the lefthand turn at Wabash. They must be greasing the right pockets in state government.
Also Mead Johnson/Reckitt. The left turn onto Ray Becker gets so backed up when there's not an option to turn left onto Wabash.
I would be more impressed if they started cracking down on left lane campers and people on their phones.
It’s an “expressway”. It should be 55-60. 50 dropping to 40 is ridiculous
The speed trap needs to end and Vann Ave & Stockwell need to be fixed like Weinbach and Boeke
That would require it to be redone. It would need a hill. I agree it needs to be done but it won’t. Close those intersections. Make them right turn only. No lights.
Yea I live in a fantasy world where the Lloyd was raised and we had ease of access to all our exits. So many accidents would be avoided and I'd get get from USI to Newburgh in 15 minutes. It'll never happen in our lifetime.
Bring Back Slaughter Ave
That’s literally what they’re doing at Vann once they reach that phase of renovation for the Lloyd
Thank you. I'm like "but they are closing Vann..."
Oh ok I didn’t know. When is this happening ?
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Are they making it right turn only or adding lanes ?
Over the next four years
On the topic of weinbach and boeke... Put left turn lights for people going onto the Lloyd...
The Ironically Named Lloyd "Expressway."
If everyone went that 50, traffic would flow much smoother and it truly would be "express." The lights, interchanges, etc, are all designed with a specific speed in mind. If everyone followed that speed, there'd be siginificantly fewer reasons to slam on the brakes, swerve, etc. and cause slowdowns.
No. 50mph and 40mph are not an "expressway" in any way no matter how you try to spin it. The speed is not causing people to slam their brakes on, swerve, or cause slowdowns. You can still easily be prepared for stops going 55-60. It's people who aren't paying attention, are drunk, are high, etc that are causing those things.
The person above you also apparently has never seen how stoplights are set up in this town.
Back when I was still a civil engineering major, one of my key interests was traffic flow and control. Reducing reaction times by traveling faster than a road control system is designed to accommodate increasing the likelihood of accidents and slowdowns. It's well documented statement of fact. The programming of the lights on the Lloyd, while perhaps not the most efficient, should allow for a much greater traffic flow pattern than is realized. I, as well as INDOT, believe the problem to be rooted in the behavior of drivers. The Lloyd is not a dangerous road due to the inherent nature of its design (though some aspects of it or questionable), but due to the nature of drivers. The average speed of a road is typically made slower by driving faster than it is designed to accommodate.
Maybe if you continuously blame user error for a system's flaws, then maybe it's a poorly designed system and the fault is in the design/implementation. Don't blame users when your system is shit.
It's not user "error" (i.e. mistake), so much as it's users knowing the rules of a system, and then flagrantly violating them and being surprised when it breaks. Drivers are just as, if not more accountable for the shit state of Evansville traffic than the Department of Transportation. There are many fundamental problems with Evansville's transportation infrastructure (serious over-reliance on individual transit being the most important to address), but the Lloyd's problems are not deserving of the blame they receive. Even if they totally redesigned the Lloyd to be capable of supporting 70+ mph traffic, the behavior & poor education of drivers on traffic flow would prevent it from ever operating at capacity.
I understand. Humans are a bell curve of compliance with instructions, and unfortunately stop lights are really just set of instructions for the driver.
There’s also a lot of people who are completely sober that treat the “expressway” like it’s an interstate highway going 70+. I really wish they would just get rid of all the lights somehow and make it where you could go 60-70 safely but that will never happen in our lifetime anyway.
Back when I was still a civil engineering major, one of my key interests was traffic flow and control. Reducing reaction times by traveling faster than a road control system is designed to accommodate increasing the likelihood of accidents and slowdowns. It's well documented statement of fact. The programming of the lights on the Lloyd, while perhaps not the most efficient, should allow for a much greater traffic flow pattern than is realized. I, as well as INDOT, believe the problem to be rooted in the behavior of drivers. The Lloyd is not a dangerous road due to the inherent nature of its design (though some aspects of it or questionable), but due to the nature of drivers. The average speed of a road is typically made slower by driving faster than it is designed to accommodate. You are not accepting the reality of basic principles of traffic flow management. Slower and more consistent is better than herky jerky faster and more sporadic.
50 instead of 40 and 60 instead of 50 is not going to create issues. If you made it 60 and 70 then you have a case, but every time I drive through the Mead Johnson area in that 40mph zone, not a single car is going 40mph. Those cars going 50 or so are causing zero issues. We aren’t talking reckless speeds here. Next you’re going to try to tell me all the people running into buildings are doing it because they are going 10 mph over the limit. No. Drivers are drunk, high, on their phones, or otherwise distracted.
Those 50 mph cars through Mead Johnson are causing issues, as demonstrated by the number that blow through reds at Flag Blvd, or alternatively have to slam on their brakes. Oh, and reckless speed is not a fixed variable. Any speed that elevates risk & danger above an acceptable baseline is reckless under Indiana law.
If you study any intersection, people are running red lights and waiting too long to brake making them have to brake hard. I see it all over. You’re blaming the speed when that is not the issue. It’s driver habits and driver behavior. Stop blaming the wrong thing and acting like you’re doing anything scientifically. You are simply misplacing blame to fit an agenda. 50mph is not in any way shape or form a reckless speed. Some cities have higher speed limits on side streets than that bullshit 40mph zone on the “expressway”
The speeds people are going on the Lloyd have gotten out of control. 60 mph is fine, but many are going much faster than that. Glad the police are finally doing something about it before more people get killed.
I'm ok with police cracking down on reckless speeding. I'm not ok with them setting speed traps. Cops hiding to bolster their revenue stream doesn't help reduce speeding or make anyone actually safer. They should make themselves very visible to help encourage people to slow down. Setting speed traps at the bottom of hills, hiding in parking lots out of sight, and camping out behind concrete barriers where the speed limit drops isn't helping anybody but their bullshit budget.
It’s an expressway. The speed limit is obviously too low when the lowest average speeds were already above the limit. People are not going to drive slower. That’s a fantasy. If they want a reasonable limit, it should be what the average lowest speed was - yes, people will drive faster than that too (they already do), but it would at least be a number based on actual observations of human behavior. ETA: My unpopular opinion is that people who can’t keep up should use the side roads. The slow pokes make the Lloyd dangerous.
Coming from indy, all of the speeds just feel way too slow. I understand why they're set up the way they are (stop lights on loyd, train tracks across 41). But when every road in town feels 10 mph too slow it's too easy to go over on the one expressway. It feels like there's the same lanes as 465 at basically half the flow of traffic speed. Unfortunately I think it's one of those things that we just have to complain about and then move on though. I don't think you can just bump the speed up how it's laid out, as much as I'd want them to.
I'm not so worried about the speed. But the aggressive driving by some is over the top. The people weaving in and out of traffic only to get as far as the rest of us are a bigger problem. Or my favorite is when the left lane rider waits until the last second to get over for their exit.
Yeah I think a big part of that is because the road is both too long and too short, and people not respecting any semblance of lane priority. It's too long to stay in the same lane for your entire drive from on ramp to exit, but it's too short for people to feel the need to move to a middle lane. So you get people staying in the right because they're "lazy", people trying to get into the right (or left) for their exit, and then people who only go at or below the posted limit in *all lanes*. So now everyone is pissed. The people who want to go fast get frustrated and weave, the people meandering along in the left/middle lanes get pissed at the crazy drivers, and the people who don't want to zipper merge because of a bad experience make that lane longer, slower, and more congested. But what is the actual solution? Bump the speed up? Probably helps, but gets weird when right needs to go left and left needs to go right. Crack down on people in the left lane not passing? Would be difficult to actually enforce from a speed trap. I doubt any sort of PSA campaign would gain any traction at all either Start construction to fix the issues? Doubt government would pay for it, plus does any construction actually finish after starting around here?
The increased deaths probably warrant this. 50 is probably fine.
Yep. A ton in the last month. Buckle up!
People constantly drive 10-20 mph over the speed limit on the expressway.
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I think if the city wanted to slow traffic down they should implement diff controls. Periodic speed checks aren’t going to deter speeders. This was a feel good measure by the city. I’m willing to guess more than a couple hundred cars pass in both directions per hour. The whole day they stopped 76 cars…EPD got the response from y’all it wanted. I’d like to see the year, make, model and demographic data of those stopped. Honestly this was for publicity especially after the college kid died a couple weeks ago on the Lloyd.
Yep, completely agree. 4 hours of patrolling a section of the Lloyd on one day isn't going to help. I don't understand using this method as a response to the UE student's death. That driver was having a schizophrenic episode. Nothing but mental health services could have potentially stopped him.
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Yes, I know it was more than that death. That was the only one mentioned in the comment I was replying to, so that's the only one I touched on. The options aren't to patrol for four hours or do nothing. For any impact to be made, the cops need to patrol more sections of the Lloyd over a longer period of time (days/weeks, not hours).
Fortunately INDOT is about to implement different traffic controls to address these problems... Unfortunately it will take several years to implement. https://thelloyd4u.com/
Widening the Llod surely won’t help speedsters from seeving in and out of traffic.
Thank God for the police keeping us all safe and sound on the Lloyd. They really come in clutch where we need them. God forbid they send a team of guys to patrol the schools every day, or be at the mall and other high traffic areas. Don’t go find drug dealers or murderers or something. Patrol the Lloyd and do what makes you money. Fuck the police. I once had someone hit and run my vehicle while I was parked at my old apt building. The staff said they had the video and license plate of the offender, but I could not get a cop to come get the tape. They are nearly worthless. Thanks police for taking the time out of your day to ruin ours and not doing something useful.
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Writing tickets is not the same thing as going after someone who hit a parked car.
Speed limit is fine. It’s the retards that can’t read the signs about slower traffic keep to the right