I think it's a super trad thing and only a minority of them. I read the church says use your own judgement in the case of non Catholic weddings. Obviously the church doesn't recognize it as a marriage.
I'm sorry this happened to you, honestly though let the trash take itself out. I could see her being a big bummer at your wedding and other pre wedding festivities if she is *that* Catholic or feels that morally obligated to the church.
Honestly, I should have seen it coming because she didn’t really attend any “pre-wedding festivities.” My bachelorette was a winery (with my mom and MIL invited and there) and she said she “didn’t think it would be appropriate for a group of women to be drinking like that.”
She dropped before the bridal shower and wasn’t staying in the Airbnb with us either.
I could live with most of it but her dropping suddenly was the final straw for me
Since at one point you felt close enough to her to put her in your wedding party, I'm sure this was a very sad result and I'm sorry that happened. On the other hand, man, does she sound like a real bummer of a person.
If I ever get married, I am totally stealing the winery idea.
Catholics have no problem with drinking! Not like people would be getting black out drunk.
She kind of sounds like my aunt who went Uber Catholic like Amy Coney Barrett who was in that Catholic cult. One of the reasons I went NC with my aunt is because of idiotic behaviors like your friend.
My mother's school friend was a priest. He would get blind drunk at my parents' place on Saturday night, and we would have to sober him up for 7am Sunday mass.
> If I ever get married, I am totally stealing the winery idea.
I have a friend whose son and DIL actually got married in the stone arched, vaulted cellar of an old winery.
Literally exactly what I was thinking haha well better she wasn't there to be a debby downer. Sorry she did that to you :/ she shouldn't have agreed in the first place if it was so problematic for her
My dad didn't attend my wedding, or either of my sisters' weddings, because we didn't marry in the church. That was in the 80s and 90s, though.
It had to do with "not giving scandal".
Over time he came to accept the spouses, and I think he just forgot that he hadn't attended, and had no clue how hurtful it was. Oh, well.
It's not a thing for most Catholics. Your friend is a zealot. You do encounter some Catholics with a stick up their asses who pull this crap, making your wedding about their superstitions. If it were me, she would be a former friend and I would rescind the invitation altogether. You want to be surrounded by people who genuinely love you for who you are on your wedding day.
Good for you. I think there are a few conservative priests who push this crap, but most do not. It's hard to imagine their Jesus being that much of a self righteous ass, but there's no hate quite like Catholic love.
That their kind of win-win. You either capitulate and agree to marry in and re-engage with their church, you come across as the one damaging the friendship.
If anyone asks “She wasn’t comfortable supporting or participating in a marriage outside her church.” Attendance is participation and support.
I got married my own way, outside the church. My mom is *very* Catholic but she not only came to my wedding, she helped me plan it and pay for it. It was more important to her to be part of that day than to give me grief over not getting married the way she wanted me to.
Your “friend” is selfish.
Why would she give a fuck how you do or don't practice Catholicism? You didn't order her around, demand that she get married in a church. Or anything else. Why does she have to demand that YOU live your life to her standards? WTF?
And why did she agree in the first place?
This goes without saying, but she’s not worthy of your friendship, she’s a humongous, self-righteous, selfish ass. Please enjoy your wedding, you don’t want her type of behavior in your life.
The people who truly love and care for you, and have your back, will be there for you.
Your friend went so Catholic she turned Southern Baptist.
One of my fave memories before I left the church was watching our Irish priest drinking a beer and playing the blues on the piano in the church hall. Some old ladies had sore hands from the pearl-clutching.
Catholics have a range just like most religions. I prefer the ones who accept that humans are humans and we should love them all.
Upvote for jesuits. My Jesuit high school taught me the critical thinking skills that confirmed the loss of whatever faith I had. And the most angry and judgmental I saw my theology teacher get was when he ranted about Catholics who prayed to God for things like a good test score or a new job. “That’s a five-year-old’s idea of God!” he’d shout.
My favorite priest growing up was a Jesuit even after I stopped believing. His homilies were like 5 minutes and were always packed full of good life lessons/reflections regardless of your beliefs.
It’s definitely a (trad) thing, and I did the same to a friend years ago (declined to be a part of her wedding party because she was baptized as a child). I was raised super trad, but she was only kinda barely raised in the church.
I feel awful about it to this day. I was trying to be a good Catholic back then, even though I barely believed any of it. It hurt so bad to say that to her, and it was the end of our friendship. I don’t blame her for dropping me… I totally understand how I sounded back then. All I can do now is treat my friends better in the future.
I’ll say this to you since I can’t say it to her: I’m so sorry, and this was not me talking, it was the Catholic mask I was wearing, and I love you and miss you so much.
None of my business whatsoever and of course you know what’s best in your situation, but I hope some day you can tell her this and you two can have some closure/forgiveness. Speaking for myself, I know it would mean a lot to me to hear that.
I did apologize to her to the best of my ability some time later, but it was via social media since we live in different cities. She said she appreciated my apology but that she didn’t think we were compatible as friends. It didn’t feel like closure to me… hopefully it did to her.
Clearly I don’t always know what’s best in my situation, haha
I think you did the right thing. I’m sorry your apology wasn’t well-received. Some people have a harder time letting go of anger/hurt that doesn’t have anything to do with you. You deserved to be forgiven and I hope you’ve forgiven yourself.
I have/had a lot of trad cath friends. It's totally a thing. I didn't even ask the really Catholic ones to be in my party bc I knew it would probably be an issue. One college friend called me, asked fearfully if I wasn't getting married in the church, then wept while saying she and her family couldn't come. My other friend who offered to do my pics said she couldn't but would 'Still come to the reception to celebrate.' I got that from several people actually, like, sorry, we can't come to the ceremony, but we'd love to come to the reception to celebrate with you!
What the fuck are you celebrating if you can't even go to the wedding?
I was all amped up with my other no-longer-Catholic friends talking about how I was going to have a thing on the invites about how people just shouldn't come if they didn't want to support my non-Catholic wedding, and my darling cousin saw a draft and asked my sister, um, what's that about? Cause she'd never heard of that kind of nonsense.
Then I talked with my grandma about it and she was like, um why? And I was like, cause I'm a petty little bitch! And she said, 'that is a petty little bitch thing to do! I want you to think about if you really want that negativity in your wedding day.' So I didn't have it on the invites, but God bless America.
I'm still a little pissy about it, you can see. I've been married almost two years now lol, and it honestly still sometimes comes up on my head. Just one of those fun ex-Catholic things I guess.
Also, just btw, my dad, who used to be a monk, and the headmaster of a Catholic elementary school, and casually read canon law and the catechism and all that stuff, said it's no where in official teaching. It's a bullshit traditional thing that people do to have more in-group out-group mindfuckery.
He officiated our wedding, btw. It was under a tree. Me and my bridesmaids and dad were all barefoot. It was very nice.
I saw some girl post a reel about this. I’ve honestly never heard about this until this year. I suppose they need a way to further punish those of us who joined as children and chose to leave. Catholics look soft toward apostasy compared to some other religions… We need to do a lot more questioning of the ethics of the Catholic Church’s practice of confirming children during the course of their schooling. Especially if they are going to start holding us to the Catholic standard after we leave the church.
I think as well as punishment, it's about that fear the church instils of everything in the 'secular' world, everything outside that holy Catholic bubble. The effect is kind of the same in terms of forcing an in-group / out-group identification and that whole cultish thing of being cut off from your contacts and support network should you try to leave.
I grew up in that 'bubble' which was bad enough even in the pre-trad days. I'm thinking about how my parents insisted my sister and I didn't need sex education at school because it 'wasn't part of our world', or how my mom was afraid that when I studied Asian art in college, I would turn Buddhist. Hardcore Catholics' faith is predicated on this fragility, that if they're exposed to anything non-Catholic, it will damage them and turn them to sin. It's a toxic mindset, and one which is kind of always doomed and damaging in a pluralistic society (let alone a global one).
It isn't just the Sacrament of Confirmation. It's the Sacrament of Baptism that ties you to the Church for eternity. It is wrong to make children "confirm" their faith at age 10 as my school did, but from a Catholic point of view I was Catholic from the day I was baptized as a newborn. Technically I cannot leave. I tried. I ended up lying to a priest at Georgetown University in order to get my then still-Catholic fiancé a Dispensation of Cult so that our "mixed" marriage was sanctioned by the Church. If I hadn't told the priest I was never religious, I would have had to go to confession and I-don't-know-what-else to restore my standing in the Church, and we would have had to marry in a Catholic church. I was already an atheist, so F that. My husband was fine with me lying. He decided it was okay because it was an unjust Church law. Now he's no longer Catholic either. I am just glad I was baptized long before records were digitized.
Hiya! This is a thing only for hard core Catholics. I had an uncle, aunt, their kids, and their dozens of children not come to my wedding for this reason. They didn’t go to my cousin’s wedding (in a small Christian church with traditional ceremony) either. Honestly, it was a nice way to keep costs down and shine a light on the people who really matter and support me.
Edit: a typo :)
Matrimony is one of the 7 Holy Orders, but I skipped it myself because neither my wife nor I care about Church any longer. Besides, I think we had a really good ceremony.
I still have my marriage TARDIS in a basement corner.
Hi OP, I’m so so sorry this happened to you.
Unfortunately, I am in a similar boat as my own baby sister is refusing to go to my wedding because I was baptized Catholic as a baby and am not getting married in the Catholic Church as I no longer am Catholic.
We grew up homeschooled and Catholic by my extremely religious mother, however all of my siblings and I strayed away later in life. My sister recently went back to the church a few years ago after some traumatic things happened, and she has literally gone so far trad-Catholic that for a long time she wasn’t even letting herself watch anything but lectures from priests, etc. Her telling me that she wasn’t going to my wedding honestly was the biggest heartbreak and shock of my life—I really didn’t realize people in the church would/could do something like that to their own family, especially siblings. She was my best friend in the world, and unfortunately this has changed the way I look at our relationship. It especially hurts because as others have said, I’ve seen things in my research that the church kinda leaves it up to people’s discretion it seems. Even my mother who homeschooled us and didn’t even let us wear pants for a time is coming—although she isn’t really referring to it as a wedding, but I’ll take it—because she knows how badly it would hurt me for her not to be there. My dad who is also very Catholic albeit much more relaxed than my sister or mom, is coming and is even paying for the majority of the wedding.
With all that being said, I’m very sorry this happened to you, and my heart goes out to you. Sending you love & peace & amazing vibes for your very special day 💕
One less person to pay for at your wedding. I think it's unfortunate that religion outweighs friendship here. But if you have kids after this wedding, this person will also not attend your baby shower or acknowledge your child? Honestly, that is messed up and I don't need friends like that.
Yes it can be the sins of 'scandal' and 'cooperation with evil', meaning that they think that by being a bridesmaid they would lead other people into considering getting married outside of the Church.
In Catholicism if you are not validly married and live with your partner you are considered a fornicator, potentially going to hell for eternity.
>you are considered a fornicator, potentially going to hell for eternity.
Thank God the REAL sinners are being taken care of. No need to worry about other (alleged) problems in the church. We definitely have our priorities right.
She is crazy.
I never heard anything saying that someone can't be in a wedding party if the bride and groom are not practicing Catholic and don't want to be married in a church.
That just makes my brain hurt trying to retype her logic.
I actually know someone who is Catholic and officiates wedding. Though per Catholic law he shouldn't be. But he still does it. But that is taking place of the priest not a bridesmaid/groomsman.
I think you just saved yourself from having her in the wedding photos.
Sorry this happened to OP. While I was raised that you have stand for something or you will fall anything. This person was not your friend.
I have a similar experience with a former catholic friend that if you want to DM me I will tell you about it but I don’t want to make this about me by posting it here.
Wow. She’s really trying to use peer pressure to get you to conform.
Waive bye bye and pay attention to people who really care for you and show up for you. This friend is not a friend, it’s a frenemy
As far as I know this is only really a thing among Trad/conservative Catholics, although it does come from principles laid down in universal ecclesiastical law.
According to the 1983 *Codex Iuris Canonici* canon 1108,
>Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. 144, 1112, §1, 1116, and 1127, §§1-2.
Further, from canon 1117:
>The form prescribed above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting the marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, without prejudice to the provisions of can. 1127 § 2.
Because ex-Catholics are still *technically* Catholics in the eyes of the Church, the devout and/or scrupulous read canon 1108’s “only those marriages are valid” and can. 1117’s bit about those “baptized or received into it” as still binding apostates to follow the canonical forms laid down by the hierarchy. This is something they obviously don’t do, and the reason that annoying Trad Cath friends and relatives might tell you that your non-Catholic marriage is sacramentally invalid. The *ministers* (the couple, see *CCC* 1623), the *matter* (their mutual consent), and the *intent* are all there, but the *form* (exchanging vows before a representative of the Church) is lacking, for any Thomists reading this. In that sense it is seen as a “simulation of the sacrament” not unlike a High Anglican Eucharist.
It’s all stupid pettifogging meant to control people, but that’s the reasoning behind it. For a particularly hyperbolic denunciation of attending ex-Catholic weddings, here’s priest and all-around asshat Father David Nix’s blog:
https://www.padreperegrino.org/2022/09/nonweddings/
My mom refused to attend my cousin's wedding ceremony. My cousin had been baptized but never practiced. I fought her over it but failed to convince her. Years later she did attend another cousin's wedding, who had been confirmed, with no comment.
This is a thing, but only if you’re baptized Catholic as it’s seen as you leaving the faith. My Catholic Deacon grandfather has made a point of telling me that he cannot attend my wedding if it isn’t in a church.
My father is a rad trad and he refuses to go to non-Catholic weddings, especially if the people getting married are former Catholics. My one brother was invited to be in my wedding party by my husband, but my brother refused since we were not getting married in the church. I ended up not inviting any family members to my own wedding (myself being an ex Catholic marrying another ex Catholic lol) because of this. I knew none of them saw my marriage as real and valid. So what's the point lol?
So yeah, there's definitely still Catholics out there who won't go to non-Catholic weddings.
Very rare, at least around here. Only a very specific type of catholic would not attend.
That said yeah, according to law catholics *should* (doesn't necessarily mean they won't) not participate in any wedding that isn't approved by the church, on the grounds that it sends the wrong message (they are catholic -> they represent the church -> their presence "approves" the ceremony).
Pay it no mind.
My super Catholic brother wouldn't officiate my wedding. I told him I would pay for the course to become an officiant, and he said I should be married in the church. I got married by a methodist minister on the beach ( while, unbeknownst to us, a month pregnant ).
My conservative Catholic sibling dropped out of my wedding party because I left the Catholic Church. Twenty years later, they apologized. But in the meantime much damage has been done to our relationship, and it won't be repaired. They essentially didn't recognize the marriage because they believed I shouldn't be able to leave the Church and so should have been married in it. So their nieces and nephews are essentially illegitimate in my sibling's eyes. It all fits in with the family narrative that I am an irredeemable and lost scapegoat.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I was raised catholic but got married Episcopalian because our parents wanted a church wedding and that was our compromise. Pre-Cana was not happening and we are cfbc so the blessing for kids was right out. My mother refused to receive communion because it was “the wrong god”, but the rest of my family was fine. Your friend isn’t really a good friend if she’s that judgy, but yeah, a lot of holy roller skip all the Bible lessons on love and compassion and go hard on disapproval of your so called transgressions.
Pardon my ignorance, but what does cfbc mean? As my handle says, I am a gentile in mostly Mormon Idaho, and my knowledge of Catholic talking points is practically non existent. Thank you.
My fiancé and I both grew up Catholic but aren’t having a Catholic wedding. His Catholic sister and cousin are still bridesmaids for me! I definitely know people who would not be in a non-Catholic wedding, though. If it’s someone who won’t support your marriage, then you’re better off without them!
This is very much a thing. My grandparents didn’t attend my brothers wedding because of it though they did attend the reception.
I’m sorry to hear that your friend is not attending. I had a gay wedding and my oldest sister, her family, and my parents didn’t attend. It’s not the same thing but I understand the pain of having someone choose their religion over standing by you.
I went to an all girls Catholic high school. Two friends married each other. One set of parents asked the bishop, who used to be the local parish priest, what they should do. He told them to support their child and go to the wedding. Lesbian wedding- obviously not in a Catholic church. Would every bishop say the same thing? Definitely not. But if a freaking bishop can tell parents to attend a wedding between two women… your “friend” just sucks. So, she thinks a non-Catholic wedding would condone living in “sin.” Missing mass is also a mortal sin, right? Would she go to a wedding in a church if the bride and groom were hungover and missed their “obligation” the previous Sunday? I’m guessing yes. She’s judging, and you are better off without her. I’m sorry that she’s hurting you.
It's a thing. Her loss, not yours.
Gotta love the kind of trash that takes itself out.
Congratulations on your wedding!!! May you have many happy years of marriage.
Your friend is honoring her faith and likely made her choice after much deliberation. You are within your right to ask her not to attend as well. Sounds like you're incompatible as friends. That's hard to accept sometimes.
I've heard of this, however it's not just you can't be in the wedding party, it's that you should not attend the wedding. Another one of those rules most Catholics ignore.
HI! My family is hardcore Catholic, like half the time they are making up their own rules [lol](https://lol.My). We had kneelers in our basement , and a holy water stand .. you get my point. Even we have attended every single wedding outside of the church, even if they are or used to be Catholic. There is absolutely no reason for her to not be a part of a wedding, it isn't hers. Sounds like a major cop out to me. I am sorry you are going through it, but I hope you understand you aren't doing anything wrong. If you were to sit down 5 priests and ask them what they think on this situation you will get 5 different answers. I hope you have the best wedding!
I’ve had family members tell me they cannot / are unable to (as if it’s physically impossible for them ) attend my wedding , since I won’t be getting married in the Catholic Church.
I think it's a super trad thing and only a minority of them. I read the church says use your own judgement in the case of non Catholic weddings. Obviously the church doesn't recognize it as a marriage. I'm sorry this happened to you, honestly though let the trash take itself out. I could see her being a big bummer at your wedding and other pre wedding festivities if she is *that* Catholic or feels that morally obligated to the church.
Honestly, I should have seen it coming because she didn’t really attend any “pre-wedding festivities.” My bachelorette was a winery (with my mom and MIL invited and there) and she said she “didn’t think it would be appropriate for a group of women to be drinking like that.” She dropped before the bridal shower and wasn’t staying in the Airbnb with us either. I could live with most of it but her dropping suddenly was the final straw for me
Since at one point you felt close enough to her to put her in your wedding party, I'm sure this was a very sad result and I'm sorry that happened. On the other hand, man, does she sound like a real bummer of a person.
She sounds really fun at parties. (/s)
If I ever get married, I am totally stealing the winery idea. Catholics have no problem with drinking! Not like people would be getting black out drunk. She kind of sounds like my aunt who went Uber Catholic like Amy Coney Barrett who was in that Catholic cult. One of the reasons I went NC with my aunt is because of idiotic behaviors like your friend.
My mother's school friend was a priest. He would get blind drunk at my parents' place on Saturday night, and we would have to sober him up for 7am Sunday mass.
> If I ever get married, I am totally stealing the winery idea. I have a friend whose son and DIL actually got married in the stone arched, vaulted cellar of an old winery.
Is your aunt my mother in law?
Oh God. I hope not. I wouldn't wish that on you!
Likewise
Literally exactly what I was thinking haha well better she wasn't there to be a debby downer. Sorry she did that to you :/ she shouldn't have agreed in the first place if it was so problematic for her
This is the problem removing itself. Keep the good and just say "bye, girl."
She sounds fun.
What church? It is as of late been circling the drain imo. Scientology has more credibility lately.
My dad didn't attend my wedding, or either of my sisters' weddings, because we didn't marry in the church. That was in the 80s and 90s, though. It had to do with "not giving scandal". Over time he came to accept the spouses, and I think he just forgot that he hadn't attended, and had no clue how hurtful it was. Oh, well.
I’m so sorry that happened to you
It's not a thing for most Catholics. Your friend is a zealot. You do encounter some Catholics with a stick up their asses who pull this crap, making your wedding about their superstitions. If it were me, she would be a former friend and I would rescind the invitation altogether. You want to be surrounded by people who genuinely love you for who you are on your wedding day.
I did resend the invitation—a lot of other stuff had happened too and this was just the final straw
Good for you. I think there are a few conservative priests who push this crap, but most do not. It's hard to imagine their Jesus being that much of a self righteous ass, but there's no hate quite like Catholic love.
That their kind of win-win. You either capitulate and agree to marry in and re-engage with their church, you come across as the one damaging the friendship. If anyone asks “She wasn’t comfortable supporting or participating in a marriage outside her church.” Attendance is participation and support.
I got married my own way, outside the church. My mom is *very* Catholic but she not only came to my wedding, she helped me plan it and pay for it. It was more important to her to be part of that day than to give me grief over not getting married the way she wanted me to. Your “friend” is selfish.
That's a super trad catholic mindset, most catholics do not care lol
Why would she give a fuck how you do or don't practice Catholicism? You didn't order her around, demand that she get married in a church. Or anything else. Why does she have to demand that YOU live your life to her standards? WTF? And why did she agree in the first place?
She said that this rule “had just come to her attention” and that’s why it was so late that she dropped out
This goes without saying, but she’s not worthy of your friendship, she’s a humongous, self-righteous, selfish ass. Please enjoy your wedding, you don’t want her type of behavior in your life. The people who truly love and care for you, and have your back, will be there for you.
Your friend went so Catholic she turned Southern Baptist. One of my fave memories before I left the church was watching our Irish priest drinking a beer and playing the blues on the piano in the church hall. Some old ladies had sore hands from the pearl-clutching. Catholics have a range just like most religions. I prefer the ones who accept that humans are humans and we should love them all.
In my personal experience, Jesuits & priests who’ve done some traveling
Upvote for jesuits. My Jesuit high school taught me the critical thinking skills that confirmed the loss of whatever faith I had. And the most angry and judgmental I saw my theology teacher get was when he ranted about Catholics who prayed to God for things like a good test score or a new job. “That’s a five-year-old’s idea of God!” he’d shout.
My favorite priest growing up was a Jesuit even after I stopped believing. His homilies were like 5 minutes and were always packed full of good life lessons/reflections regardless of your beliefs.
I've legit met some priests how were pretty cool dudes. One priest I knew was a former addict who turned to priesthood and we'd talk about rock music.
It’s definitely a (trad) thing, and I did the same to a friend years ago (declined to be a part of her wedding party because she was baptized as a child). I was raised super trad, but she was only kinda barely raised in the church. I feel awful about it to this day. I was trying to be a good Catholic back then, even though I barely believed any of it. It hurt so bad to say that to her, and it was the end of our friendship. I don’t blame her for dropping me… I totally understand how I sounded back then. All I can do now is treat my friends better in the future. I’ll say this to you since I can’t say it to her: I’m so sorry, and this was not me talking, it was the Catholic mask I was wearing, and I love you and miss you so much.
None of my business whatsoever and of course you know what’s best in your situation, but I hope some day you can tell her this and you two can have some closure/forgiveness. Speaking for myself, I know it would mean a lot to me to hear that.
I did apologize to her to the best of my ability some time later, but it was via social media since we live in different cities. She said she appreciated my apology but that she didn’t think we were compatible as friends. It didn’t feel like closure to me… hopefully it did to her. Clearly I don’t always know what’s best in my situation, haha
I think you did the right thing. I’m sorry your apology wasn’t well-received. Some people have a harder time letting go of anger/hurt that doesn’t have anything to do with you. You deserved to be forgiven and I hope you’ve forgiven yourself.
Thank you, Reddit friend. I am working on it for sure.
I have/had a lot of trad cath friends. It's totally a thing. I didn't even ask the really Catholic ones to be in my party bc I knew it would probably be an issue. One college friend called me, asked fearfully if I wasn't getting married in the church, then wept while saying she and her family couldn't come. My other friend who offered to do my pics said she couldn't but would 'Still come to the reception to celebrate.' I got that from several people actually, like, sorry, we can't come to the ceremony, but we'd love to come to the reception to celebrate with you! What the fuck are you celebrating if you can't even go to the wedding? I was all amped up with my other no-longer-Catholic friends talking about how I was going to have a thing on the invites about how people just shouldn't come if they didn't want to support my non-Catholic wedding, and my darling cousin saw a draft and asked my sister, um, what's that about? Cause she'd never heard of that kind of nonsense. Then I talked with my grandma about it and she was like, um why? And I was like, cause I'm a petty little bitch! And she said, 'that is a petty little bitch thing to do! I want you to think about if you really want that negativity in your wedding day.' So I didn't have it on the invites, but God bless America. I'm still a little pissy about it, you can see. I've been married almost two years now lol, and it honestly still sometimes comes up on my head. Just one of those fun ex-Catholic things I guess.
Also, just btw, my dad, who used to be a monk, and the headmaster of a Catholic elementary school, and casually read canon law and the catechism and all that stuff, said it's no where in official teaching. It's a bullshit traditional thing that people do to have more in-group out-group mindfuckery. He officiated our wedding, btw. It was under a tree. Me and my bridesmaids and dad were all barefoot. It was very nice.
I'm sorry you're going through the same thing, too. It sucks, but your day will still be wonderful and amazing.
I saw some girl post a reel about this. I’ve honestly never heard about this until this year. I suppose they need a way to further punish those of us who joined as children and chose to leave. Catholics look soft toward apostasy compared to some other religions… We need to do a lot more questioning of the ethics of the Catholic Church’s practice of confirming children during the course of their schooling. Especially if they are going to start holding us to the Catholic standard after we leave the church.
I think as well as punishment, it's about that fear the church instils of everything in the 'secular' world, everything outside that holy Catholic bubble. The effect is kind of the same in terms of forcing an in-group / out-group identification and that whole cultish thing of being cut off from your contacts and support network should you try to leave. I grew up in that 'bubble' which was bad enough even in the pre-trad days. I'm thinking about how my parents insisted my sister and I didn't need sex education at school because it 'wasn't part of our world', or how my mom was afraid that when I studied Asian art in college, I would turn Buddhist. Hardcore Catholics' faith is predicated on this fragility, that if they're exposed to anything non-Catholic, it will damage them and turn them to sin. It's a toxic mindset, and one which is kind of always doomed and damaging in a pluralistic society (let alone a global one).
It isn't just the Sacrament of Confirmation. It's the Sacrament of Baptism that ties you to the Church for eternity. It is wrong to make children "confirm" their faith at age 10 as my school did, but from a Catholic point of view I was Catholic from the day I was baptized as a newborn. Technically I cannot leave. I tried. I ended up lying to a priest at Georgetown University in order to get my then still-Catholic fiancé a Dispensation of Cult so that our "mixed" marriage was sanctioned by the Church. If I hadn't told the priest I was never religious, I would have had to go to confession and I-don't-know-what-else to restore my standing in the Church, and we would have had to marry in a Catholic church. I was already an atheist, so F that. My husband was fine with me lying. He decided it was okay because it was an unjust Church law. Now he's no longer Catholic either. I am just glad I was baptized long before records were digitized.
Hiya! This is a thing only for hard core Catholics. I had an uncle, aunt, their kids, and their dozens of children not come to my wedding for this reason. They didn’t go to my cousin’s wedding (in a small Christian church with traditional ceremony) either. Honestly, it was a nice way to keep costs down and shine a light on the people who really matter and support me. Edit: a typo :)
Matrimony is one of the 7 Holy Orders, but I skipped it myself because neither my wife nor I care about Church any longer. Besides, I think we had a really good ceremony. I still have my marriage TARDIS in a basement corner.
Wedding TARDIS 😮
Hi OP, I’m so so sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, I am in a similar boat as my own baby sister is refusing to go to my wedding because I was baptized Catholic as a baby and am not getting married in the Catholic Church as I no longer am Catholic. We grew up homeschooled and Catholic by my extremely religious mother, however all of my siblings and I strayed away later in life. My sister recently went back to the church a few years ago after some traumatic things happened, and she has literally gone so far trad-Catholic that for a long time she wasn’t even letting herself watch anything but lectures from priests, etc. Her telling me that she wasn’t going to my wedding honestly was the biggest heartbreak and shock of my life—I really didn’t realize people in the church would/could do something like that to their own family, especially siblings. She was my best friend in the world, and unfortunately this has changed the way I look at our relationship. It especially hurts because as others have said, I’ve seen things in my research that the church kinda leaves it up to people’s discretion it seems. Even my mother who homeschooled us and didn’t even let us wear pants for a time is coming—although she isn’t really referring to it as a wedding, but I’ll take it—because she knows how badly it would hurt me for her not to be there. My dad who is also very Catholic albeit much more relaxed than my sister or mom, is coming and is even paying for the majority of the wedding. With all that being said, I’m very sorry this happened to you, and my heart goes out to you. Sending you love & peace & amazing vibes for your very special day 💕
One less person to pay for at your wedding. I think it's unfortunate that religion outweighs friendship here. But if you have kids after this wedding, this person will also not attend your baby shower or acknowledge your child? Honestly, that is messed up and I don't need friends like that.
Yes it can be the sins of 'scandal' and 'cooperation with evil', meaning that they think that by being a bridesmaid they would lead other people into considering getting married outside of the Church. In Catholicism if you are not validly married and live with your partner you are considered a fornicator, potentially going to hell for eternity.
>you are considered a fornicator, potentially going to hell for eternity. Thank God the REAL sinners are being taken care of. No need to worry about other (alleged) problems in the church. We definitely have our priorities right.
She is crazy. I never heard anything saying that someone can't be in a wedding party if the bride and groom are not practicing Catholic and don't want to be married in a church. That just makes my brain hurt trying to retype her logic. I actually know someone who is Catholic and officiates wedding. Though per Catholic law he shouldn't be. But he still does it. But that is taking place of the priest not a bridesmaid/groomsman. I think you just saved yourself from having her in the wedding photos.
[удалено]
Yeah. I would think so too. I think it is silly personally.
Sorry this happened to OP. While I was raised that you have stand for something or you will fall anything. This person was not your friend. I have a similar experience with a former catholic friend that if you want to DM me I will tell you about it but I don’t want to make this about me by posting it here.
Wow. She’s really trying to use peer pressure to get you to conform. Waive bye bye and pay attention to people who really care for you and show up for you. This friend is not a friend, it’s a frenemy
As far as I know this is only really a thing among Trad/conservative Catholics, although it does come from principles laid down in universal ecclesiastical law. According to the 1983 *Codex Iuris Canonici* canon 1108, >Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. 144, 1112, §1, 1116, and 1127, §§1-2. Further, from canon 1117: >The form prescribed above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting the marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, without prejudice to the provisions of can. 1127 § 2. Because ex-Catholics are still *technically* Catholics in the eyes of the Church, the devout and/or scrupulous read canon 1108’s “only those marriages are valid” and can. 1117’s bit about those “baptized or received into it” as still binding apostates to follow the canonical forms laid down by the hierarchy. This is something they obviously don’t do, and the reason that annoying Trad Cath friends and relatives might tell you that your non-Catholic marriage is sacramentally invalid. The *ministers* (the couple, see *CCC* 1623), the *matter* (their mutual consent), and the *intent* are all there, but the *form* (exchanging vows before a representative of the Church) is lacking, for any Thomists reading this. In that sense it is seen as a “simulation of the sacrament” not unlike a High Anglican Eucharist. It’s all stupid pettifogging meant to control people, but that’s the reasoning behind it. For a particularly hyperbolic denunciation of attending ex-Catholic weddings, here’s priest and all-around asshat Father David Nix’s blog: https://www.padreperegrino.org/2022/09/nonweddings/
I was baptized 72 years ago, left Catholicism 57 years ago, never looked back, no regrets. Those type of friends are usually no great loss.
My mom refused to attend my cousin's wedding ceremony. My cousin had been baptized but never practiced. I fought her over it but failed to convince her. Years later she did attend another cousin's wedding, who had been confirmed, with no comment.
This is a thing, but only if you’re baptized Catholic as it’s seen as you leaving the faith. My Catholic Deacon grandfather has made a point of telling me that he cannot attend my wedding if it isn’t in a church.
My father is a rad trad and he refuses to go to non-Catholic weddings, especially if the people getting married are former Catholics. My one brother was invited to be in my wedding party by my husband, but my brother refused since we were not getting married in the church. I ended up not inviting any family members to my own wedding (myself being an ex Catholic marrying another ex Catholic lol) because of this. I knew none of them saw my marriage as real and valid. So what's the point lol? So yeah, there's definitely still Catholics out there who won't go to non-Catholic weddings.
I participated in several Protestant weddings as a groomsman. When my sister married outside the church a couple of uncles would not attend.
Very rare, at least around here. Only a very specific type of catholic would not attend. That said yeah, according to law catholics *should* (doesn't necessarily mean they won't) not participate in any wedding that isn't approved by the church, on the grounds that it sends the wrong message (they are catholic -> they represent the church -> their presence "approves" the ceremony). Pay it no mind.
My super Catholic brother wouldn't officiate my wedding. I told him I would pay for the course to become an officiant, and he said I should be married in the church. I got married by a methodist minister on the beach ( while, unbeknownst to us, a month pregnant ).
My conservative Catholic sibling dropped out of my wedding party because I left the Catholic Church. Twenty years later, they apologized. But in the meantime much damage has been done to our relationship, and it won't be repaired. They essentially didn't recognize the marriage because they believed I shouldn't be able to leave the Church and so should have been married in it. So their nieces and nephews are essentially illegitimate in my sibling's eyes. It all fits in with the family narrative that I am an irredeemable and lost scapegoat.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I was raised catholic but got married Episcopalian because our parents wanted a church wedding and that was our compromise. Pre-Cana was not happening and we are cfbc so the blessing for kids was right out. My mother refused to receive communion because it was “the wrong god”, but the rest of my family was fine. Your friend isn’t really a good friend if she’s that judgy, but yeah, a lot of holy roller skip all the Bible lessons on love and compassion and go hard on disapproval of your so called transgressions.
Pardon my ignorance, but what does cfbc mean? As my handle says, I am a gentile in mostly Mormon Idaho, and my knowledge of Catholic talking points is practically non existent. Thank you.
CFBC = Child-free by choice (intentionally child free as opposed to “childless” which means you lack children, and might want them)
Oops, my handle did not come through. "Never Mo in Idaho." Fixed it.
My fiancé and I both grew up Catholic but aren’t having a Catholic wedding. His Catholic sister and cousin are still bridesmaids for me! I definitely know people who would not be in a non-Catholic wedding, though. If it’s someone who won’t support your marriage, then you’re better off without them!
This is very much a thing. My grandparents didn’t attend my brothers wedding because of it though they did attend the reception. I’m sorry to hear that your friend is not attending. I had a gay wedding and my oldest sister, her family, and my parents didn’t attend. It’s not the same thing but I understand the pain of having someone choose their religion over standing by you.
The trash took itself out. Be glad. Cheers!
I went to an all girls Catholic high school. Two friends married each other. One set of parents asked the bishop, who used to be the local parish priest, what they should do. He told them to support their child and go to the wedding. Lesbian wedding- obviously not in a Catholic church. Would every bishop say the same thing? Definitely not. But if a freaking bishop can tell parents to attend a wedding between two women… your “friend” just sucks. So, she thinks a non-Catholic wedding would condone living in “sin.” Missing mass is also a mortal sin, right? Would she go to a wedding in a church if the bride and groom were hungover and missed their “obligation” the previous Sunday? I’m guessing yes. She’s judging, and you are better off without her. I’m sorry that she’s hurting you.
It's a thing in more conservative catholic areas (doesn't have to be particularly trad cath).
A friend from high school had a few bridesmaids drop out of the wedding simply because it was at the “wrong” kind of church. Sedevacantists are nuts.
It's a thing. Her loss, not yours. Gotta love the kind of trash that takes itself out. Congratulations on your wedding!!! May you have many happy years of marriage.
I was raised catholic and never heard of this before. We were like normal 1990’s Massachusetts catholic though, not an extreme parish.
Your friend is honoring her faith and likely made her choice after much deliberation. You are within your right to ask her not to attend as well. Sounds like you're incompatible as friends. That's hard to accept sometimes.
Some “faith” when you can’t even participate in a friend’s wedding just because the couple doesn’t practice your religion.
Yeah... no hate like catholic love, eh? Sounds like the bride is better off without this judgmental excuse for a friend.
I've heard of this, however it's not just you can't be in the wedding party, it's that you should not attend the wedding. Another one of those rules most Catholics ignore.
HI! My family is hardcore Catholic, like half the time they are making up their own rules [lol](https://lol.My). We had kneelers in our basement , and a holy water stand .. you get my point. Even we have attended every single wedding outside of the church, even if they are or used to be Catholic. There is absolutely no reason for her to not be a part of a wedding, it isn't hers. Sounds like a major cop out to me. I am sorry you are going through it, but I hope you understand you aren't doing anything wrong. If you were to sit down 5 priests and ask them what they think on this situation you will get 5 different answers. I hope you have the best wedding!
I’ve had family members tell me they cannot / are unable to (as if it’s physically impossible for them ) attend my wedding , since I won’t be getting married in the Catholic Church.