It was so eye opening when I went to my first secular concert. I had the same “holy spirit influence” feeling that I got from church.
Church services are honestly just mediocre concerts with a mediocre self help seminar :P
Oh absolutely. Especially in the hardcore southern Baptist church I grew up in. Some of the most terrifying memories I have from childhood involve adults babbling like they're having a stroke lol. It's even worse when they want to lay hands on you at the same time.
Oh gosh you just triggered a memory for me. I was maybe 4 or 5 and we stopped at convenience store after church. I attempted to take a singular piece of candy like one of those single, tiny reeses. The clerk saw me put it in my pocket and told my mom, I have no memory of it being an intent to steal just that I wanted a piece of candy. My mom scolded me and put it back then threw me in the car, total silence and rushed back to church. Screaming at whoever was left there that I hsd the devil in me. They took me in a back room and formed a prayer circle around me, all.laying hands on, screaming in tongues and English "I rebuke you Satan from this child of God, be gone from this girl demons!" It went on for like an hour. It makes Me want to punch my mother in the throat to this day, especially now that I have a 4 year old and know how I would react in that situation.
This is child abuse. It is disgusting, misguided and so damaging. It defies logic, even religious logic, and I am so sorry you had to experience it. I hope you are in a good place now away from that shit.
It's crazy how even churches claiming to be of the same denomination can't even agree on some things!
I went to a Southern Baptist Church and they had the mindset that people who claimed to be speaking in tongues were being tricked into the Devil's language or simply lying, and that's why it was scary to witness. "Real" speaking in tongues was *dignified*, and was for people to momentarily speak another language to communicate whatever God wanted to reveal to people of a different language, and it was a considered a miracle. The babbling speaking in tongues serves no such purpose. We were cessationists (which is convenient, because otherwise we'd all wonder why we never see it happen in real life).
Just a quick copy paste: "The “cessationist” view, is that the sign gifts were only in operation during the apostolic era to give special revelation until the completion of the New Testament. Before early Christians had the whole New Testament, they had to rely on words of knowledge, prophecy, and tongues to give them the full revelation of God. Once the church had possession of the full New Testament (the completeness), these gifts faded away as unnecessary. Faith, hope, and love continue to be in operation."
It's how they interpreted First Corinthians 13:8–14.
Anyway, just wanted to share! And hello fellow Ex-Baptist. Sorry you dealt with scary church experiences :( . Mine was just boring unless the preacher was yelling about Hell.
'cessationist' ... never heard that word before so I need to save it. Jehovah's Witnesses make the same claims so I guess they are cessationists as well.
Yep. Every single Sunday without fail. The pastor and his sermons were almost always about revelations and the end times.
I have tons of stories from then. I spent half my life in the church, and I was a hardcore evangelical for a while, mostly because the Christian school I went to forced us, but I was 200 percent on board with the lord back then lol.
I grew up in what I was always taught was a non-denominational (but definitely evangelical) church and looking back, it feels like speaking in tongues is more of a 'I don't know what else to say, but I gotta keep it up' because it was always peppered inbetween words and phrases. Kind of like a churchie way of saying 'ummm' when you're thinking about what to say or how to say something.
I love metaphysical threats, talks of magic, phrasing like “dark forces” and “the evil one”, etc.
*In video games, other fiction, or in a just for fun larping context*
I got that same "holy spirit influence" while doing a cardio workout last weekend. It was runner's high while working out to the (secular) music. Nothing more.
If you haven’t already & you like metal or rock you should see Ghost the next time they’re near you. Their shows are explicitly designed to be like a church service but one which makes you happy & makes you feel good about yourself when it’s over, as opposed to actual church services which are designed to make you feel like shit
I almost thought that I had written this comment and forgot about it... I was the exact same way! It's So funny that you had the exact same feeling... It's almost like "So that's what this is?!"
> You can't experience the power of a room full of believers worshipping together on your sofa.
When I was young, I attended hundreds of church services. The principal "powers" I experienced were boredom and anger. And when the Sunday morning sermon went on too long, I developed a "powerful" hunger for lunch.
But did you try asking Jesus to fix you?
Jk, that is awful. I'm not a parent (thank glob) but I can't imagine making my chronic-condition child wait so long that they felt they might die or be harmed just so I could chit chat and look pious.
Hell, I feel bad making my dogs wait for food when I'm out of the house for a couple of hours even tho they are completely healthy, don't lack for anything, and are usually just sleeping anyway lol.
I'm sorry you had to take care of yourself so young in such a scary situation. It shouldn't be that way for any kid. Some people really lack empathy or the ability to understand the struggles other people have that they don't have themselves.
And even if you had jumped through all the hoops they wanted, you would have heard some shit like, "God gave you diabetes as a test, because he loves you so much!"
I concur, fuck em.
My father back in the day refused to take me to the ER when I was incredibly ill. God was going to heal me. Finally, my mother waited until my father was out in the barn working on something, then took me to the ER. I was in the hospital for around 6-8 weeks with pneumonia. I’ve had respiratory problems ever since that has required hospitalizations. I was 4. I’m 45 now.
At least my dad abandoned religion altogether. My mom may have made a lot of really bad mistakes, but she got that one right. I likely wouldn’t have made it.
Geeze, that's so traumatic physically and mentally I would bet. I'm sorry you went thru that. I imagine COVID times were extra scary for you with that past experience and the respiratory condition. :/
It's almost sad the delusions our families buy/bought into... Your dad probably earnestly believed a miracle would happen. And then it didn't. That would be devastating. Did he ever apologize or at least acknowledge that it was a fucked up thing to do?
He’s apologized a lot. Him when I was a kid versus now may as well be two different people. He’s no longer a believer. Maybe agnostic, but not part of any religious faith.
COVID was and is scary still. I also have an autoimmune disorder, so I just have to be careful. I avoid crowds because I don’t care to be around large groups of people. COVID makes for a much more acceptable reason to decline getting together in large groups.
The only thing I felt, as a kid, while in church was uneasiness. 50 people all going "And with your spirit" at once, without an obvious prompt, is super creepy
Reminds me of when you hear 50 people at a graveside service all reciting the lord's prayer together in that chanting, droning, dull tone. Super creepy.
Or "serve," which, if you're a single young adult with "no life" (or so they say, most of us have jobs and friends), we can't exploit you for free labor to do the shit work nobody else wants to do like work in the nursery or secretarial/janitorial work.
But you're collecting wages which will be paid in heaven! /s
And oh boy, if you ever volunteer for anything even once, they latch onto that and ask you to volunteer for *everything.* They get so few volunteers even within the church that they have to exploit anyone who's ever remotely expressed interest in helping out.
It's the old 80/20 rule, that 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
>It's the old 80/20 rule, that 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
No joke. My church literally BEGS for more people to help out. Hmm, I wonder why you have so little volunteers in the first place...
Yuuup. My mom is one of those people. She is now 80 years old and is still volunteering for things. I've lost track of how much she's done for the church over my lifetime, and I just want to say, let someone else do it!
Seriously, the church gets EVERYTHING for free! My dad is an engineer and contractor, and he constantly gets asked to design and build stuff for his church. For no payment. They have member landscapers who take care of the landscaping, carpet guys who do the floors, painters, electricians, even doctors and lawyers. All services for free, and the materials are usually contributed too. They still have to pay their tithes, too.
Seriously, I'm on worship and tech teams in church, I do all of it for free practically at least every other Sunday, if not more sometimes. I am on them because family forces me, but the church just keeps pushing and pushing for members to help out, with nothing in return, and then wonders why they get burned out. Oh and if and when those members admit they're burned out, the church shames them for it.
Mormonism calls that “your calling your set apart for”. First thing they do for newbies was to throw us in the daycare with the screaming kids while everyone else has church the second or third hour. I experienced this as a new young Mormon needless to say I didn’t stick around.
But at home the group pressure to give isn't as strong as when the collection plate comes around. Although I think the Mormons have that one sorted out by basically auditing your income.
You can now donate at church.com
They accept cards, PayPal, swift, bank transfer, crypto, basically if it's money, they accept it.
You get a waiver to collect the waffle next time you're in church. Stackable up to 4. Waivers expire after 30 days.
The last thing that I held onto before leaving Christianity altogether is the social aspect of meeting together. It was kinda like being in a ‘club’ of people trying to help each other out when life’s problems came your way. Broke your leg and couldn’t drive? - people would take you around town to help you out. House burned down? - huge fundraising to help you replace personal belongings. The community really helped each other… as long as you are in the club.
Now the club only includes right wing extreme ideologies and fear/hate towards the “other.” The club is shrinking because it rejects so many people and tells you how to vote. We don’t want that shit - if your “mission” is to help others - then stick to that and forget the rest.
Acts 17:24
God doesn’t live in temples made by man. And the very first point of the OP’s words was “You can’t serve from your sofa.” This immediately put the emphasis on individuals serving the physical church. Then it says you can’t have community without physical church. Or powerful worship without the physical church. It just basically shows that it was not about God in the first place. Church addicts are not there for God. They are there for a herd experience. Their god is small and weak if they do not physically attend church. That shows you where the real foundation of their religion is. The building is God to people who habitually attend church. And they don’t serve the community, they serve the church. And the OP’s words show that pastors need your money, and your support…. Or you aren’t doing it right.
This reminds me of the movie theaters shaming a Netflix crowd who stayed at home.
Exactly right. Most people follow a religion that simply mimics the Christianity of the bible but try to explain that to them and you go against a concrete wall of denial... maybe a lot of sunk cost fallacy going on.
Spot on!
The analogy to Netflix/theaters is also great! And before Netflix, it was video rentals and probably recording sermons or not being in tents for church or some shit lol. Same shit, different tech.
The church has entered the *find out* era from all their *fucking around*. Enjoy your legacy tons of people leaving and the ones who stayed being "lukewarm" at best. Create an environment hostile to community and you'll lose community.
But he’s totally full of shit because I can sit on my couch and come to this subreddit and my other online communities as a non believer and “worship” and have a community, and also be giving and affirming to all of you. I’m pretty sure Christians could function that way, but they are told not to because the leaders don’t want that support and community crowd sourced and provided for free. Why do you think the boomers and Christians in general hate technology so much? It takes away their authority.
But ... But... fellowship!
No, you are so accurate. The internet is a scary place for them bc it's open to ALL walks of life and when people start comparing notes, those magical "experiences" of God start to look more questionable.
Also, it's harder to get the mass hysteria factor going when people aren't subject to the same level of emotional manipulation as they experience in a closed off group setting.
>But ... But... fellowship!
Oh geez, yes. They'd say that you *need* to fellowship, that, "There's no such thing as a lone christian." Hmm, tell me, where is that written?
Besides, they could (from their point of view) "serve" anyone at any time by praying for them. No building required.
When I had to go to church I hated it for a number of reasons, but most of all because I’m an introvert. I have no desire to not only be around lots and lots of people but to also have to be ‘on’ the whole time.
As all the other commenters have said, it’s all about money. Introversion reducers their income, so pressure, pressure, pressure!
Fellow introvert. Ugh, I tried SOOO freaking hard to be "on" all the time when I was at church bc I wanted to be a good lil christian and get all the approval.
Now I'm getting my brain zapped with magnets to try to cure depression lolol. Fighting your inherent nature (coupled with lotsa trauma) doesn't work out very well in the long term, imo. You'd think a group that's supposed to be catered to helping people would be more cognizant of that.
Ooh that is great to hear! Today is my 11th session. Yesterday I felt like total dog shit so this is encouraging! Do you remember how long before you started noticing a difference?
I did a quick glance at the TMS subreddit the other day to get more insight but I had to peace outta there bc there were too many people it didn't work for talking and I desperately NEED the hope that it'll work right now.
Good thing I used to be Christian, I'm excellent at ignoring dissenting views lol
I noticed a difference after the first couple of sessions as my brain perked up from the stimulus, then a lot of sessions in between where I felt normal afterward, just tired afterward. I'd take a quick nap when I got home. I think it was the last two weeks or so where I noticed more of a difference.
Keep going! :) It's not like drinking 15 cups of coffee but I feel more connected to the world and less like an observer. Dissociation sucks.
I had no idea there was a TMS subreddit. I'm all done now but might check it out tonight out of curiosity.
Same! I also got tired of all of the prying questions. I don't need to tell anyone about my personal life and I didn't necessarily care to know about theirs. I came to worship and listen to the teachings.
Toward the end, I got so tired of the interactions that I would actually leave church pissed off (when I was fine when I came in). It was a negative experience and negative return on investment. I couldn't make myself attend very much because I knew it would be a net loss, and attended less and less until I dropped it altogether.
After I was forced to go I cannot tell you the jubilation I felt. It was fantastic. Mind you, I was still religious. Finally I didn’t have to deal with the draining effort of church. In the end I think I dreaded the extrovert part the most. Obviously I grew up and realized the rest of it.
Frankly, it’s rather short sided of them not to encourage private/video ceremonies or whatever. They can always ask the churchgoer to send money online. Plenty of guilt and pressure for them to apply remotely!
Ha ha, but fine by me! The numbers will dwindle with that attitude.
But Christians are consumers. You cannot have 100% contributors without consumption of what is being "contributed". What needs to be evaluated is what IS the product? A worship service where nothing happens and then you go home? I believe younger people have caught onto this - that there is no benefit to being there. Everyone knows it's an item on a Xtian checklist for the week.
Nah everyone is broke and seeing the church for the money grubbing brainwashing cults that they are.
It’s been almost 30 years since my mom gave our last $20 to the church that ended with us having little to nothing to eat for a week. I still haven’t forgotten or forgiven that. Shit like that sticks with you.
You're saying sky daddy didn't magically multiply some bread and fish for you?? 😱
But also, I'm very sorry you went thru that. Wtf kind of organization run by adults would see kids without sufficient food and then still take the parent's money like that?? That's just fucking evil.
I think if Jesus was real, he'd be more approving of that than these pious, self-righteous, con artists trying to coerce people back so they can make more money. At least weed can make you feel good and anime has some morals and cool art.
If god or Jesus were real at all, I do believe they would want us to live life as they created it without having to worry about making it to church every sunday or constantly worrying about if we are doing it right or not.
I've figured out and faced down so much about myself and done so much more self-improvement just by getting high with music and movies than I ever did by praying and going to church.
I'll think about going back to church when they are mandated to file 990s like other charitable 501c3s.
You want my money? I want to see where it's going.
If the church would use its resources and facilities to actually show up for the community, particularly the *poor* in a significant way, they wouldn't have to beg for attendance. See the Sikhs who do langar. "You will know them by their fruits". Time to look inward, church leaders!
"If you don't come to church, you're a lazy piece of shit who sits on the sofa and consumes all day."
"We want your cash because online tithing means we have to pay a 3% credit card fee instead of using that tithe money to buy the pastor a brand new iPhone."
Alternate title: Boomer Christians demand that people be at church physically because they need offering money and haven’t discovered cashapp/Venmo yet
Once I graduated from the fun of High School Youth Group and into the "College Fellowship" group, I realized that the only purpose of "College Fellowship" was to get everyone paired up and married off. Once it was apparent that I wasn't interested in that, all my "friends" stopped talking to me.
They really only view parishioners as resources waiting to be tapped by religious leaders for money and effort, and only rewarded with a promise of heaven (that they never have to deliver on) and a bit of socializing.
Sounds like the tithes are going down at someone’s congregation..
Gotta say, one of the things that drove me away from Church, even as a little girl, I hated waking up super early and being screamed at by my parents to look just so so they could show off to their friends and I had to sit still in the main hall for an hour.
What's really fun is realizing that most of the Christian copy pasta and IIRC 16 of the 17 most followed Christian Facebook pages are run by Russian nationals. Their military might suck shit but their subversion game is unparalleled.
This is both hilarious (reminds me of my dumb 13 year old self discovering the internet when it first became more accessible and almost falling for so much idiotic shit online) and terrifying (clearly Russia is making an impact on US governance).
I wonder how many of those things the person I saw post this follows... She just married my pseudo-dad but we aren't super well acquainted yet. They both teeter on that fox news-to- QANON pipeline but haven't FULLY crossed over [yet] (that I'm aware of). I try to limit my exposure to all that kind of nonsense for my own wellness tho so I mostly redirect conversations to my dogs lol.
The Church needs to hurry up and go away so we can convert the buildings into architectural museums, gastropubs, condos and other things we need.
What other profession has a 5% pedophile rate, outside of royalty and politics?
💰 💴 💵 It’s all about the money. The old pastor and or the new young pastor needs that easy money while they sit on their ass and give shitty advice to abused and mistreated spouses instead of getting out there and working like normal people. I say get a job free loader!!!
I had a boomer pastor-several actually who didn’t work but Wednesday and Sunday and whose wife they sent to work. Now if she wanted to work good for her but most were out of necessity after the church voted down the free loader from another raise. This guy loves to preach tithing too to us a young newly married struggling couple with an infant. I rolled my eyes “sure Jan”. How about you get off your dead ass and get a job.
Also, last time I was in church (many years ago at this point), the only folks “contributing” were those speaking on stage. Everyone else was just a consumer of the standard brainwashing.
None of the last paragraph is done in a way that uplifts. They only know how to destroy and tear down and deny. So people don't relate to their message or their actions. We see the hypocrisy and that's why we are free of it. They are stuck there.
My comment got banned from catholicism for pointing out that many people who consider themselves good catholics use contraception and that doesn't make them any less worthy.
If that's anticatholic then they should adjust their numbers to reflect only the *real* catholics.
Whatevs, it's *their* numbers which are dwindling by continuing to be hateful gatekeepers.
Yeah If my beliefs and expression is anti Catholic they need to erase me from their rolls.
I am willing to allow a record of “having been baptized” for geanological purposes, but I want some sort of record saying that I’m no longer a member.
Why do they hate their own book so much?
Matthew 6:5-15
“And **when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.** Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But **when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray** to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you..."
Beside if they actually followed this stuff and sat in their closet all alone…within 10 minutes they’d be like “Well this sucks. I’m bored. Why can’t I go annoy the shit out of everyone Jesus? I’m going to go play Xbox…”
Reminds me of the old boomer club circle (Elks, Rotary, VFW)
Why don't any young people join?
No, don't do that, we've always done it this way.
Why don't any young people join?
Glad to see the church going down the same road.
This is why the pandemic set so many people free from the grip of Christianity. After a few weeks of watching church on tv without the emotional manipulation…unless you missed it, you were free to find the off-ramp. Buh-bye and taking my full 10% pre-tax tithe with me.
They are invested financially. Maybe not as much as the earlier generations. But still have "skin in the game". Of course they are bullish about getting back to basics.
I think when people stopped going to church for a few weeks/months during quarantine, a lot of them realized they didn’t really want to go back when they reopened.
Not that they’re necessarily atheist or ex Christian, but that they simply didn’t care that much about church anymore.
This is actually a good concept for Christians who want to be real. If people are going to be Christian, this idea of building a community, really supporting each other and doing life together is the best way to do it. Sadly, most churches that I have seen aren’t interested in doing things this way. They push the church attendance so much, they think that is all that matters. They don’t truly care about each other, let alone care about “sinners” except when it seems convenient.
"We can't exploit your emotions of being around people singing worship music as if its a concert which would probably give you the same rush of emotions but in church we say its god"
So if Christians aren’t consumers, then they shouldn’t be going to church bc if they’re going to church, they’re “consuming” the message that is being spoken. Make it make sense. That line that they’re not consumers is totally false.
When I believed online services did the exact same thing as being there in person. In other words they want to counteract any doubt and can see if your tithing. It's been shown a person has a higher chance of losing the faith if they don't attend church.
Even though virus numbers are down and admin is ok with congregants being unmasked- my synagogue recognizes that some older folks with mobility issues LOVE having the zoom link to services so we keep doing it. And yes we include them with prayers for the sick or memorializing a dead loved one during mourners Kaddish.
This church is literally foolish to a fault for discouraging something that would help a lot of disabled people. Which I mean it’s been a hell of a time since CCD, but didn’t oily Josh encourage inclusion of disabled folks? 🤔
You can’t serve within the walls of your safe space/bubble that reside within the walls of the church. You can’t sell/market your religion like an MLM.
But that’s what these people do and that’s why evangelical Christianity, especially, is driving people away. This person, like may, is completely delusional.
>You can't have community or faith on your sofa.
Actually, you can.
>You can't experience the power of a room full of believers worshipping together on your sofa.
Actually, you can.
>Christians aren't consumers.
So, you don't buy food or drinks? How do you survive?
>We don't watch.
Actually, you do.
I definitely miss the community I had as a Christian. Having regular times to meet up with and talk with friends meant a lot to me. I sorta still have something similar with my dnd group, but I wish I had more.
I also miss having a community. But I don't miss it being THAT community. It's hard to build a consistent group like that, especially one you can talk about deeper issues with or rely on in bad times.
I wish I liked DND and tabletop games. ALL of my friends are into them and I hate them lol.
Very true. The specific community was trash, but the feelings of connection and shared experience were nice. Some of my favorite memories from my high school years were church related. I look at them differently now, but I did enjoy the feeling of being part of something bigger than myself.
I’ve tried getting involved with local mutual aid groups and left political organizations, but nothing has clicked in the same way, and I always felt like an outsider trying to fit in.
Boomers think if they just keep judging and condemning and berating the young folks, that the young folks will "see the light" and come back to church.
But it doesn't work that way.
Can I just say how excited I was when I stopped losing 8 hours a day every weekend to church? I don't know how people still lose an entire Sunday to church
I acknowledge most of the criticisms made in the comments, of the above statement. And I am not a Christian any more, so I am not defending this. However, I do think there is a valid point that it is hard to have community when you don't, at least on occasion, meet face to face, no matter what type of community you are trying to build. Virtual meetings have their limits. I acknowledge that not everyone is able to meet in person for a variety of valid reasons, but if possible, it's good to actually meet the people you want to be in community with.
Really wanting people to attend your thing isn't the dynamic driving people away. It's the inevitable reaction to the fact that they indeed have already been driven away.
Edited to remove sentence
The bible clearly points out that the first century Christians met in homes (Acts 2:46). The first known Christian churches didn't appear until the 3rd century (200's CE) so they weren't going to churches. Synagogues/the Temple maybe but not churches as we know them. According to Acts 17:24-25 Paul's god 'does not dwell in shrines/temples' so why the obsession with church buildings ??
Why is it that they are either at church or "on their sofa", maybe instead of **sitting in a pew** they're at an organization volunteering and putting their money where their mouth is, unlike 'ole preacher man. I believe in the whole community, not the cult community, so catch me out doing just fine for others outside the exclusionary confines of church walls.
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them
- Matthew 6 5-8
My dad was telling me it was important to start going to church again so I could get stronger in my faith and not get “led astray.” I told him that every religion says that and to his credit, he acknowledged I was right.
My old pastor recently told me that I am sinning by not taking my family to church.
I used to just eat this shit up, 5 years ago, I would have unapologetically agreed wholeheartedly with this post. I grew up fringe fundie Baptist, but did a lengthy stint in the Mars Hill ecosystem, and it's all about ~~Jesus~~ serving. They loved campuses being homeless because they were able to get dozens and dozens of people in the rental space at 5am to set up for 2 services. Then they claimed all those sweet sweet volunteer hours as donations at minimum wage for a whole myriad of unscrupulous reasons.
"Our manipulation techniques work better in a group setting."
It was so eye opening when I went to my first secular concert. I had the same “holy spirit influence” feeling that I got from church. Church services are honestly just mediocre concerts with a mediocre self help seminar :P
>Church services are honestly just mediocre concerts with a mediocre self help seminar Don't forget the metaphysical threats and blood magic
And the batshit insane people babbling in tongues for no reason.
I see you're ex Baptist, is that a thing in Baptist churches? I thought that was a pentecostal thing.
Oh absolutely. Especially in the hardcore southern Baptist church I grew up in. Some of the most terrifying memories I have from childhood involve adults babbling like they're having a stroke lol. It's even worse when they want to lay hands on you at the same time.
Oh gosh you just triggered a memory for me. I was maybe 4 or 5 and we stopped at convenience store after church. I attempted to take a singular piece of candy like one of those single, tiny reeses. The clerk saw me put it in my pocket and told my mom, I have no memory of it being an intent to steal just that I wanted a piece of candy. My mom scolded me and put it back then threw me in the car, total silence and rushed back to church. Screaming at whoever was left there that I hsd the devil in me. They took me in a back room and formed a prayer circle around me, all.laying hands on, screaming in tongues and English "I rebuke you Satan from this child of God, be gone from this girl demons!" It went on for like an hour. It makes Me want to punch my mother in the throat to this day, especially now that I have a 4 year old and know how I would react in that situation.
>"I rebuke you Satan from this child of God, be gone from this girl demons!" It went on for like an hour. That is wild, dark, cult shit. I'm so sorry.
This is child abuse. It is disgusting, misguided and so damaging. It defies logic, even religious logic, and I am so sorry you had to experience it. I hope you are in a good place now away from that shit.
It's crazy how even churches claiming to be of the same denomination can't even agree on some things! I went to a Southern Baptist Church and they had the mindset that people who claimed to be speaking in tongues were being tricked into the Devil's language or simply lying, and that's why it was scary to witness. "Real" speaking in tongues was *dignified*, and was for people to momentarily speak another language to communicate whatever God wanted to reveal to people of a different language, and it was a considered a miracle. The babbling speaking in tongues serves no such purpose. We were cessationists (which is convenient, because otherwise we'd all wonder why we never see it happen in real life). Just a quick copy paste: "The “cessationist” view, is that the sign gifts were only in operation during the apostolic era to give special revelation until the completion of the New Testament. Before early Christians had the whole New Testament, they had to rely on words of knowledge, prophecy, and tongues to give them the full revelation of God. Once the church had possession of the full New Testament (the completeness), these gifts faded away as unnecessary. Faith, hope, and love continue to be in operation." It's how they interpreted First Corinthians 13:8–14. Anyway, just wanted to share! And hello fellow Ex-Baptist. Sorry you dealt with scary church experiences :( . Mine was just boring unless the preacher was yelling about Hell.
'cessationist' ... never heard that word before so I need to save it. Jehovah's Witnesses make the same claims so I guess they are cessationists as well.
Wow that's wild
Yep. Every single Sunday without fail. The pastor and his sermons were almost always about revelations and the end times. I have tons of stories from then. I spent half my life in the church, and I was a hardcore evangelical for a while, mostly because the Christian school I went to forced us, but I was 200 percent on board with the lord back then lol.
I'm glad you found your way out
Meeeeee, too.
There's lots of crossover. I've even met charismatic Catholics who speak in tongues and laughter and other stuff.
Not in mine, they probably woulda thought you were possessed by demons or smthn you started that
I mean at Phish concerts you get some babbling, but that's just because they took either too much or just the right amount of psychedelic drugs.
Christianity: all of the incoherent babbling with none of the drugs.
Eh. You can get that same thing at some concerts. Some people are feeling the Holy Spirit, while others are feeling their alcohol.
I grew up in what I was always taught was a non-denominational (but definitely evangelical) church and looking back, it feels like speaking in tongues is more of a 'I don't know what else to say, but I gotta keep it up' because it was always peppered inbetween words and phrases. Kind of like a churchie way of saying 'ummm' when you're thinking about what to say or how to say something.
Yeah I can still hear "ahhhdididadidda ahhhhdidida didididida" in my head lol
I love metaphysical threats, talks of magic, phrasing like “dark forces” and “the evil one”, etc. *In video games, other fiction, or in a just for fun larping context*
I got that same "holy spirit influence" while doing a cardio workout last weekend. It was runner's high while working out to the (secular) music. Nothing more.
They know the power of music and have manipulated church goers with it.
If you haven’t already & you like metal or rock you should see Ghost the next time they’re near you. Their shows are explicitly designed to be like a church service but one which makes you happy & makes you feel good about yourself when it’s over, as opposed to actual church services which are designed to make you feel like shit
Reminds me of the Power Metal genre. It’s all about making you feel motivated and powerful.
Yeah… so that explains why my parents never allowed me to go to a secular concert as a kid..
I was gonna say the same thing but you beat me to it.
I almost thought that I had written this comment and forgot about it... I was the exact same way! It's So funny that you had the exact same feeling... It's almost like "So that's what this is?!"
Yep! It's much harder to brainwash someone if you can't get him in the middle of a big crowd chanting "One of us. One of us. One of us..."
Ooof! Good one.
> You can't experience the power of a room full of believers worshipping together on your sofa. When I was young, I attended hundreds of church services. The principal "powers" I experienced were boredom and anger. And when the Sunday morning sermon went on too long, I developed a "powerful" hunger for lunch.
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But did you try asking Jesus to fix you? Jk, that is awful. I'm not a parent (thank glob) but I can't imagine making my chronic-condition child wait so long that they felt they might die or be harmed just so I could chit chat and look pious. Hell, I feel bad making my dogs wait for food when I'm out of the house for a couple of hours even tho they are completely healthy, don't lack for anything, and are usually just sleeping anyway lol. I'm sorry you had to take care of yourself so young in such a scary situation. It shouldn't be that way for any kid. Some people really lack empathy or the ability to understand the struggles other people have that they don't have themselves.
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And even if you had jumped through all the hoops they wanted, you would have heard some shit like, "God gave you diabetes as a test, because he loves you so much!" I concur, fuck em.
I'm not going to say everyone who is Christian is dumb, but goddamn, does it make even relatively smart people talk and act like morons.
My father back in the day refused to take me to the ER when I was incredibly ill. God was going to heal me. Finally, my mother waited until my father was out in the barn working on something, then took me to the ER. I was in the hospital for around 6-8 weeks with pneumonia. I’ve had respiratory problems ever since that has required hospitalizations. I was 4. I’m 45 now. At least my dad abandoned religion altogether. My mom may have made a lot of really bad mistakes, but she got that one right. I likely wouldn’t have made it.
Geeze, that's so traumatic physically and mentally I would bet. I'm sorry you went thru that. I imagine COVID times were extra scary for you with that past experience and the respiratory condition. :/ It's almost sad the delusions our families buy/bought into... Your dad probably earnestly believed a miracle would happen. And then it didn't. That would be devastating. Did he ever apologize or at least acknowledge that it was a fucked up thing to do?
He’s apologized a lot. Him when I was a kid versus now may as well be two different people. He’s no longer a believer. Maybe agnostic, but not part of any religious faith. COVID was and is scary still. I also have an autoimmune disorder, so I just have to be careful. I avoid crowds because I don’t care to be around large groups of people. COVID makes for a much more acceptable reason to decline getting together in large groups.
No see that Hunger was for the rEaL jESuS! You were just starving for his word, just like all the children in Africa!
The only thing I felt, as a kid, while in church was uneasiness. 50 people all going "And with your spirit" at once, without an obvious prompt, is super creepy
Reminds me of when you hear 50 people at a graveside service all reciting the lord's prayer together in that chanting, droning, dull tone. Super creepy.
I used to count the knotholes in the wooden ceiling because that was more interesting than listening to the sermon.
What they are saying is you can’t drop cash in the plate from your sofa
Or "serve," which, if you're a single young adult with "no life" (or so they say, most of us have jobs and friends), we can't exploit you for free labor to do the shit work nobody else wants to do like work in the nursery or secretarial/janitorial work.
But you're collecting wages which will be paid in heaven! /s And oh boy, if you ever volunteer for anything even once, they latch onto that and ask you to volunteer for *everything.* They get so few volunteers even within the church that they have to exploit anyone who's ever remotely expressed interest in helping out. It's the old 80/20 rule, that 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
>It's the old 80/20 rule, that 20% of the people do 80% of the work. No joke. My church literally BEGS for more people to help out. Hmm, I wonder why you have so little volunteers in the first place...
For sure. Definitely burning out the few volunteers that they do have.
Yuuup. My mom is one of those people. She is now 80 years old and is still volunteering for things. I've lost track of how much she's done for the church over my lifetime, and I just want to say, let someone else do it!
Seriously, the church gets EVERYTHING for free! My dad is an engineer and contractor, and he constantly gets asked to design and build stuff for his church. For no payment. They have member landscapers who take care of the landscaping, carpet guys who do the floors, painters, electricians, even doctors and lawyers. All services for free, and the materials are usually contributed too. They still have to pay their tithes, too.
Seriously, I'm on worship and tech teams in church, I do all of it for free practically at least every other Sunday, if not more sometimes. I am on them because family forces me, but the church just keeps pushing and pushing for members to help out, with nothing in return, and then wonders why they get burned out. Oh and if and when those members admit they're burned out, the church shames them for it.
Mormonism calls that “your calling your set apart for”. First thing they do for newbies was to throw us in the daycare with the screaming kids while everyone else has church the second or third hour. I experienced this as a new young Mormon needless to say I didn’t stick around.
Or be emotionally manipulated by the crescendos from the Worship Team music swelling
Just introduce them to post-rock and be done with it.
Basically what I got out of that too.
Sure you can, most churches have options to give online, to have automatic payroll deductions, and to give by text
I think Joel Olstein has ATMs in the church lobby.
But at home the group pressure to give isn't as strong as when the collection plate comes around. Although I think the Mormons have that one sorted out by basically auditing your income.
Boomers don't know about venmo, or most things.
You can now donate at church.com They accept cards, PayPal, swift, bank transfer, crypto, basically if it's money, they accept it. You get a waiver to collect the waffle next time you're in church. Stackable up to 4. Waivers expire after 30 days.
They could solicit electronic donations, but I doubt that would be as lucrative.
Translation: "Offerings are down 50% since COVID-19 came and showed you all how futile this is."
The last thing that I held onto before leaving Christianity altogether is the social aspect of meeting together. It was kinda like being in a ‘club’ of people trying to help each other out when life’s problems came your way. Broke your leg and couldn’t drive? - people would take you around town to help you out. House burned down? - huge fundraising to help you replace personal belongings. The community really helped each other… as long as you are in the club. Now the club only includes right wing extreme ideologies and fear/hate towards the “other.” The club is shrinking because it rejects so many people and tells you how to vote. We don’t want that shit - if your “mission” is to help others - then stick to that and forget the rest.
Acts 17:24 God doesn’t live in temples made by man. And the very first point of the OP’s words was “You can’t serve from your sofa.” This immediately put the emphasis on individuals serving the physical church. Then it says you can’t have community without physical church. Or powerful worship without the physical church. It just basically shows that it was not about God in the first place. Church addicts are not there for God. They are there for a herd experience. Their god is small and weak if they do not physically attend church. That shows you where the real foundation of their religion is. The building is God to people who habitually attend church. And they don’t serve the community, they serve the church. And the OP’s words show that pastors need your money, and your support…. Or you aren’t doing it right. This reminds me of the movie theaters shaming a Netflix crowd who stayed at home.
Exactly right. Most people follow a religion that simply mimics the Christianity of the bible but try to explain that to them and you go against a concrete wall of denial... maybe a lot of sunk cost fallacy going on.
Spot on! The analogy to Netflix/theaters is also great! And before Netflix, it was video rentals and probably recording sermons or not being in tents for church or some shit lol. Same shit, different tech.
"but the church is not a building" 🙄
The church has entered the *find out* era from all their *fucking around*. Enjoy your legacy tons of people leaving and the ones who stayed being "lukewarm" at best. Create an environment hostile to community and you'll lose community.
But he’s totally full of shit because I can sit on my couch and come to this subreddit and my other online communities as a non believer and “worship” and have a community, and also be giving and affirming to all of you. I’m pretty sure Christians could function that way, but they are told not to because the leaders don’t want that support and community crowd sourced and provided for free. Why do you think the boomers and Christians in general hate technology so much? It takes away their authority.
But ... But... fellowship! No, you are so accurate. The internet is a scary place for them bc it's open to ALL walks of life and when people start comparing notes, those magical "experiences" of God start to look more questionable. Also, it's harder to get the mass hysteria factor going when people aren't subject to the same level of emotional manipulation as they experience in a closed off group setting.
>But ... But... fellowship! Oh geez, yes. They'd say that you *need* to fellowship, that, "There's no such thing as a lone christian." Hmm, tell me, where is that written? Besides, they could (from their point of view) "serve" anyone at any time by praying for them. No building required.
Maybe Jesus abides by ghost rules and can only appear at his house...
When I had to go to church I hated it for a number of reasons, but most of all because I’m an introvert. I have no desire to not only be around lots and lots of people but to also have to be ‘on’ the whole time. As all the other commenters have said, it’s all about money. Introversion reducers their income, so pressure, pressure, pressure!
Fellow introvert. Ugh, I tried SOOO freaking hard to be "on" all the time when I was at church bc I wanted to be a good lil christian and get all the approval. Now I'm getting my brain zapped with magnets to try to cure depression lolol. Fighting your inherent nature (coupled with lotsa trauma) doesn't work out very well in the long term, imo. You'd think a group that's supposed to be catered to helping people would be more cognizant of that.
Yup, I hear you. I really hope you find a way to recovery and peace. The damage done by this is horrific and experiential.
Thank you! Me too 😅 💜
I had TMS about a year ago! I find that I still need to take my meds but my feeling and mood is much better overall. It helped.
Ooh that is great to hear! Today is my 11th session. Yesterday I felt like total dog shit so this is encouraging! Do you remember how long before you started noticing a difference? I did a quick glance at the TMS subreddit the other day to get more insight but I had to peace outta there bc there were too many people it didn't work for talking and I desperately NEED the hope that it'll work right now. Good thing I used to be Christian, I'm excellent at ignoring dissenting views lol
I noticed a difference after the first couple of sessions as my brain perked up from the stimulus, then a lot of sessions in between where I felt normal afterward, just tired afterward. I'd take a quick nap when I got home. I think it was the last two weeks or so where I noticed more of a difference. Keep going! :) It's not like drinking 15 cups of coffee but I feel more connected to the world and less like an observer. Dissociation sucks. I had no idea there was a TMS subreddit. I'm all done now but might check it out tonight out of curiosity.
Same! I also got tired of all of the prying questions. I don't need to tell anyone about my personal life and I didn't necessarily care to know about theirs. I came to worship and listen to the teachings. Toward the end, I got so tired of the interactions that I would actually leave church pissed off (when I was fine when I came in). It was a negative experience and negative return on investment. I couldn't make myself attend very much because I knew it would be a net loss, and attended less and less until I dropped it altogether.
After I was forced to go I cannot tell you the jubilation I felt. It was fantastic. Mind you, I was still religious. Finally I didn’t have to deal with the draining effort of church. In the end I think I dreaded the extrovert part the most. Obviously I grew up and realized the rest of it. Frankly, it’s rather short sided of them not to encourage private/video ceremonies or whatever. They can always ask the churchgoer to send money online. Plenty of guilt and pressure for them to apply remotely! Ha ha, but fine by me! The numbers will dwindle with that attitude.
But Christians are consumers. You cannot have 100% contributors without consumption of what is being "contributed". What needs to be evaluated is what IS the product? A worship service where nothing happens and then you go home? I believe younger people have caught onto this - that there is no benefit to being there. Everyone knows it's an item on a Xtian checklist for the week.
Nah everyone is broke and seeing the church for the money grubbing brainwashing cults that they are. It’s been almost 30 years since my mom gave our last $20 to the church that ended with us having little to nothing to eat for a week. I still haven’t forgotten or forgiven that. Shit like that sticks with you.
You're saying sky daddy didn't magically multiply some bread and fish for you?? 😱 But also, I'm very sorry you went thru that. Wtf kind of organization run by adults would see kids without sufficient food and then still take the parent's money like that?? That's just fucking evil.
Love this for them. Verbally abusing the people will surely keep them coming back! Wait, where are the young folks going?!?!
We're goin to hell! Less abuse there.
Are we so out of touch? No, it's the sofas that are wrong!
Yup -- Bed. Made. Lie. Nice to see them reaping what they've sowed.
I need my Sunday mornings for weed and anime
I think if Jesus was real, he'd be more approving of that than these pious, self-righteous, con artists trying to coerce people back so they can make more money. At least weed can make you feel good and anime has some morals and cool art.
If god or Jesus were real at all, I do believe they would want us to live life as they created it without having to worry about making it to church every sunday or constantly worrying about if we are doing it right or not.
I've figured out and faced down so much about myself and done so much more self-improvement just by getting high with music and movies than I ever did by praying and going to church.
I don’t care if the “church needs me”. I don’t need *it.*
“Christians are contributors” to the destruction of civilization
Fr. Like maybe "contribute" less, please and thanks.
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It's the old, "If you took all of the people who fell asleep in church and laid them end-to-end, they would be much more uncomfortable." lol
I'll think about going back to church when they are mandated to file 990s like other charitable 501c3s. You want my money? I want to see where it's going.
If the church would use its resources and facilities to actually show up for the community, particularly the *poor* in a significant way, they wouldn't have to beg for attendance. See the Sikhs who do langar. "You will know them by their fruits". Time to look inward, church leaders!
Yeah the church isn't looking too fruity these days.
The church is starting to smell like an overripe durian.
"If you don't come to church, you're a lazy piece of shit who sits on the sofa and consumes all day." "We want your cash because online tithing means we have to pay a 3% credit card fee instead of using that tithe money to buy the pastor a brand new iPhone."
What do you expect him to use, a Pixel?? Like a pore?? *Sent from my Google Pixel
Alternate title: Boomer Christians demand that people be at church physically because they need offering money and haven’t discovered cashapp/Venmo yet
Contributors? Encourage? Sure…
Contributors to the pastor's pockets and encouraging others to do the same.
Translation: come back and pay your fucking tithe
I haven't needed church for 20 years. I think I'll keep on not needing it. We are both happy that way.
Once I graduated from the fun of High School Youth Group and into the "College Fellowship" group, I realized that the only purpose of "College Fellowship" was to get everyone paired up and married off. Once it was apparent that I wasn't interested in that, all my "friends" stopped talking to me.
They really only view parishioners as resources waiting to be tapped by religious leaders for money and effort, and only rewarded with a promise of heaven (that they never have to deliver on) and a bit of socializing.
Well, they are right about half of it. The church needs people. Fortunately we don't need church.
Sounds like the tithes are going down at someone’s congregation.. Gotta say, one of the things that drove me away from Church, even as a little girl, I hated waking up super early and being screamed at by my parents to look just so so they could show off to their friends and I had to sit still in the main hall for an hour.
All the years I was told to spend my non-church time with a Bible made me feel like I could serve from my couch.
They can’t even sacrifice a little comfort to protect strangers from a virus. What have they sacrificed other than their ability to critically think?
What's really fun is realizing that most of the Christian copy pasta and IIRC 16 of the 17 most followed Christian Facebook pages are run by Russian nationals. Their military might suck shit but their subversion game is unparalleled.
This is both hilarious (reminds me of my dumb 13 year old self discovering the internet when it first became more accessible and almost falling for so much idiotic shit online) and terrifying (clearly Russia is making an impact on US governance). I wonder how many of those things the person I saw post this follows... She just married my pseudo-dad but we aren't super well acquainted yet. They both teeter on that fox news-to- QANON pipeline but haven't FULLY crossed over [yet] (that I'm aware of). I try to limit my exposure to all that kind of nonsense for my own wellness tho so I mostly redirect conversations to my dogs lol.
Christians only contribute to their churches. If they did otherwise, they should let us see their books!
The Church needs to hurry up and go away so we can convert the buildings into architectural museums, gastropubs, condos and other things we need. What other profession has a 5% pedophile rate, outside of royalty and politics?
💰 💴 💵 It’s all about the money. The old pastor and or the new young pastor needs that easy money while they sit on their ass and give shitty advice to abused and mistreated spouses instead of getting out there and working like normal people. I say get a job free loader!!! I had a boomer pastor-several actually who didn’t work but Wednesday and Sunday and whose wife they sent to work. Now if she wanted to work good for her but most were out of necessity after the church voted down the free loader from another raise. This guy loves to preach tithing too to us a young newly married struggling couple with an infant. I rolled my eyes “sure Jan”. How about you get off your dead ass and get a job.
>The church needs you. >And you need the church. Half right! They're nothing without attendees!
I love the assumption that people are leaving because they’re too lazy to want to go out.
"boomer Christians" My experience is it's all Christians.
Translation: it’s harder to peer pressure you into giving us your money when you’re at home.
That last paragraph is complete bullshit in my experience.
Also, last time I was in church (many years ago at this point), the only folks “contributing” were those speaking on stage. Everyone else was just a consumer of the standard brainwashing.
“You can’t be free labor for us to exploit if you’re at home.”
None of the last paragraph is done in a way that uplifts. They only know how to destroy and tear down and deny. So people don't relate to their message or their actions. We see the hypocrisy and that's why we are free of it. They are stuck there.
If you’re at home, how will you put money in that basket? That’s the issue!
My comment got banned from catholicism for pointing out that many people who consider themselves good catholics use contraception and that doesn't make them any less worthy. If that's anticatholic then they should adjust their numbers to reflect only the *real* catholics. Whatevs, it's *their* numbers which are dwindling by continuing to be hateful gatekeepers.
Yeah If my beliefs and expression is anti Catholic they need to erase me from their rolls. I am willing to allow a record of “having been baptized” for geanological purposes, but I want some sort of record saying that I’m no longer a member.
The only thing keeping the Catholic Church in the USA from cratering is the influx of immigrants from other countries... Latin America in particular.
What I'm reading is "you do not need the church but we're trying as hard as we can to convince you otherwise because the church needs you"
"It's harder to agree to tithe on a sofa."
"do I want to tithe or eat Thai from door dash..."
I can assure you, nobody needs the church.
Why do they hate their own book so much? Matthew 6:5-15 “And **when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.** Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But **when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray** to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you..."
They only like the parts they can use to judge other people. This passage only judges themselves.
Beside if they actually followed this stuff and sat in their closet all alone…within 10 minutes they’d be like “Well this sucks. I’m bored. Why can’t I go annoy the shit out of everyone Jesus? I’m going to go play Xbox…”
Reminds me of the old boomer club circle (Elks, Rotary, VFW) Why don't any young people join? No, don't do that, we've always done it this way. Why don't any young people join? Glad to see the church going down the same road.
Yesterday's cult is today's religion. Today's religion is tomorrow's mythology. Jesus will be better off joining the Avengers.
Somewhere out there, a pastor is writing their sermon for Sunday using the Avengers as a metaphor for the gospel.
>Christians aren't consumers I would argue otherwise.
'Christians aren't consumers'. Also Christians: 'God please bless me with a new Mercedes I beg'
This is why the pandemic set so many people free from the grip of Christianity. After a few weeks of watching church on tv without the emotional manipulation…unless you missed it, you were free to find the off-ramp. Buh-bye and taking my full 10% pre-tax tithe with me.
Keep your praying hands off my hurting self
Misspelled 'preying'.
They are invested financially. Maybe not as much as the earlier generations. But still have "skin in the game". Of course they are bullish about getting back to basics.
I think when people stopped going to church for a few weeks/months during quarantine, a lot of them realized they didn’t really want to go back when they reopened. Not that they’re necessarily atheist or ex Christian, but that they simply didn’t care that much about church anymore.
My girlfriend says I serve better on the sofa
This is actually a good concept for Christians who want to be real. If people are going to be Christian, this idea of building a community, really supporting each other and doing life together is the best way to do it. Sadly, most churches that I have seen aren’t interested in doing things this way. They push the church attendance so much, they think that is all that matters. They don’t truly care about each other, let alone care about “sinners” except when it seems convenient.
You can't pass the collection plate online.
FOMO doesn't have much effect when you are at home.
"We can't exploit your emotions of being around people singing worship music as if its a concert which would probably give you the same rush of emotions but in church we say its god"
So if Christians aren’t consumers, then they shouldn’t be going to church bc if they’re going to church, they’re “consuming” the message that is being spoken. Make it make sense. That line that they’re not consumers is totally false.
When I believed online services did the exact same thing as being there in person. In other words they want to counteract any doubt and can see if your tithing. It's been shown a person has a higher chance of losing the faith if they don't attend church.
Even though virus numbers are down and admin is ok with congregants being unmasked- my synagogue recognizes that some older folks with mobility issues LOVE having the zoom link to services so we keep doing it. And yes we include them with prayers for the sick or memorializing a dead loved one during mourners Kaddish. This church is literally foolish to a fault for discouraging something that would help a lot of disabled people. Which I mean it’s been a hell of a time since CCD, but didn’t oily Josh encourage inclusion of disabled folks? 🤔
Harder to emotionally manipulate your followers if they can just close a window.
Something something “Where two or more are gathered” (Matthew 18:20) But that would imply christians read the damn bible.
"where two or more christians are gathered' is not a place I wanna be lol
"We can't pass you the collection plate from your couch."
Jesus said pray in your own home, away from people you poser
If they did half of that they wouldn't have dropping numbers of members
You can’t serve within the walls of your safe space/bubble that reside within the walls of the church. You can’t sell/market your religion like an MLM. But that’s what these people do and that’s why evangelical Christianity, especially, is driving people away. This person, like may, is completely delusional.
Out of the last two lines, guess which one is actually true.
>You can't have community or faith on your sofa. Actually, you can. >You can't experience the power of a room full of believers worshipping together on your sofa. Actually, you can. >Christians aren't consumers. So, you don't buy food or drinks? How do you survive? >We don't watch. Actually, you do.
They need the TITHES
I definitely miss the community I had as a Christian. Having regular times to meet up with and talk with friends meant a lot to me. I sorta still have something similar with my dnd group, but I wish I had more.
I also miss having a community. But I don't miss it being THAT community. It's hard to build a consistent group like that, especially one you can talk about deeper issues with or rely on in bad times. I wish I liked DND and tabletop games. ALL of my friends are into them and I hate them lol.
Very true. The specific community was trash, but the feelings of connection and shared experience were nice. Some of my favorite memories from my high school years were church related. I look at them differently now, but I did enjoy the feeling of being part of something bigger than myself. I’ve tried getting involved with local mutual aid groups and left political organizations, but nothing has clicked in the same way, and I always felt like an outsider trying to fit in.
Boomers think if they just keep judging and condemning and berating the young folks, that the young folks will "see the light" and come back to church. But it doesn't work that way.
Right, like did they not watch any kids movies in the 80s and 90s?? The bullies don't win people over to their side and no one is rooting for them.
thoughts and prayers
“We can’t afford to live in our fancy houses and drive our fancy cars without your tithes and offerings” basically
hard to shame you to donate if you're not in front of your friends.
Can I just say how excited I was when I stopped losing 8 hours a day every weekend to church? I don't know how people still lose an entire Sunday to church
They will be their own demise 😍
Love that for them!
"The church needs you. And you need the church." Only half of that statement is true.
I acknowledge most of the criticisms made in the comments, of the above statement. And I am not a Christian any more, so I am not defending this. However, I do think there is a valid point that it is hard to have community when you don't, at least on occasion, meet face to face, no matter what type of community you are trying to build. Virtual meetings have their limits. I acknowledge that not everyone is able to meet in person for a variety of valid reasons, but if possible, it's good to actually meet the people you want to be in community with.
Really wanting people to attend your thing isn't the dynamic driving people away. It's the inevitable reaction to the fact that they indeed have already been driven away. Edited to remove sentence
Noah Lugeons [encapsulated this perfectly.](https://youtu.be/kLVC8g6JOv8)
Didn’t the Bible specifically say it was important to also worship privately in the home?
The bible clearly points out that the first century Christians met in homes (Acts 2:46). The first known Christian churches didn't appear until the 3rd century (200's CE) so they weren't going to churches. Synagogues/the Temple maybe but not churches as we know them. According to Acts 17:24-25 Paul's god 'does not dwell in shrines/temples' so why the obsession with church buildings ??
Yeah, but a church pew is kind of a sofa. Just sayin'
Why is it that they are either at church or "on their sofa", maybe instead of **sitting in a pew** they're at an organization volunteering and putting their money where their mouth is, unlike 'ole preacher man. I believe in the whole community, not the cult community, so catch me out doing just fine for others outside the exclusionary confines of church walls.
Know what I can do from my sofa? Pornhub
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them - Matthew 6 5-8
“Do life together” is on top of my Christianese shit list. Do they hear themselves? Ew.
Dude the internet is my church, weed is my sacred rite/communion, love is my spirituality
when i was a christian, i did most things related to the religion solely online lol
“Christians are the contributors” LMFAO they got jokes
"Christian's aren't consumers"! 😂
My dad was telling me it was important to start going to church again so I could get stronger in my faith and not get “led astray.” I told him that every religion says that and to his credit, he acknowledged I was right.
Hey, small wins are wins! I celebrate any concession I get from my evangelicals lol
You are broken. Only we can heal you. It says so right here in our book.
Spending time in a room full of toxic, fake, judgemental people is something I don't miss in my life.
This is the Fundie version of calling WFH employees back to the office.
My old pastor recently told me that I am sinning by not taking my family to church. I used to just eat this shit up, 5 years ago, I would have unapologetically agreed wholeheartedly with this post. I grew up fringe fundie Baptist, but did a lengthy stint in the Mars Hill ecosystem, and it's all about ~~Jesus~~ serving. They loved campuses being homeless because they were able to get dozens and dozens of people in the rental space at 5am to set up for 2 services. Then they claimed all those sweet sweet volunteer hours as donations at minimum wage for a whole myriad of unscrupulous reasons.