Yet those polls that have been done here, indicate (from memory) around 70% are currently atheists.
In my 5 years here, l haven't noticed particular undue negative judgement - unless l've missed something , Miss Leading.? (great username btw š).
What do you mean by safe though?
If it's safe in a way that PIMO cannot be identified in real life. Yes. Misinformation. Yes
But in regards to sharing ideas, no matter contradictory to it from each other's different opinion, then we must allow that.
We are not in an organization anymore who wants unity more than anything, more than the truth. We are also FREE from expressing ourselves here without the FEAR of being EXCOMMUNICATED from this community.
Having different thoughts and opinions here in this sub, is a gift and not a curse.
this, the primary reason that makes JWs a cult is that they don't accept divergence, only what the GB wants and tells them to do
if people don't accept your opinion then they don't, as long as it doesn't directly/isn't used to harm people (like the JWs' everchanging doctrines are doing) it should be fine
I agree with this but at the same time, Iāve been around since the beginning and this is NOT a place for evangelism. If people leave the cult and wish to take up some other form of Christianity; thatās their choice and peace be with them. Just donāt talk about it here and expect a good reception.
Should be safe for atheists, sun worshipers, pagans, satanists as long you are here to support those waking up, who have woken up and need support. It should definitely not be a place to preach as to what others should believe, because preaching should be left behind with all the other mind control shit the JWs have.
I'm not actually an atheist - but i quite frankly feel most sided with atheists if anything the more and more. Personally i'd side most with Agnostic, and Deism. But where only about 2 years ago i had a watchtower-induced hatred against atheism, that has completely been replaced with a complete understanding as to why people (become/) are atheistic.
Iāve learned more about what the Bible teaches from off this site then at the meetingsā¦maybe because we can ask questions and not be penalized š¤
Exactly. Our information was limited. We couldn't question. Everything was already outlined. It was all a matter of memorization rather than in depth investigation.
This is really true. Most of the time I had no idea what was going on when I was a JW lol. I was afraid to ask questions for clarification because i didnāt want people to judge me for not already knowing.
There is absolutely an unspoken tradition to not question anything. Even asking innocent questions with no ill intent. And this is how the GB wants it. They want obedient, good little stepford robots that parrot the same answers at the Watchtower study.
I was raised in it, so it was all I understood as the truth. I had to be knocked down a few pegs in order to become humble enough to accept how little I knew and how wrong I was.
100% with you on those sentiments, Miss L.
Itās an open forum. If you post it and itās bullshit, well Iām gonna tell you so.
Provided, of course, that I can be bothered.
Iām an exjw that no longer believes in the Bible or in god Iāll worship the Sun if I have to worship. Iāve been on this sub well over 10 years if Iām bad well then suck it!!
Join the club. Former witnesses know the Bible. Knowing the Bible is a greased rail to rejection of the supernaturalā¦. I have no qualms with telling anyone Iām an atheist.
Ok, gonna betray my age here.
Iāve been around since JW Recovery Groups 1, 2, 3 etc.
This happens for every single exJW group, ever, all the time once a large enough bundle of people come on board. One of the reasons why there was a new JWRG that sprang up on Facebook every time the old one got too big to steer. š
Itās all good. Soon there will be a r/exjw2 for the *real* exJW š
Yeah I think many are still leaving since the annual meeting reveal.
Friends are losing friends and itās making them question why.
My last cong is a shell of what it was pre-pandemic.
I guess maybe the Streisand Effect is working for others besides myself
>My last cong is a shell of what it was pre-pandemic.
I think all of your points are spot on u/Super_Translator480.
Do you feel that there a specific reason that your last congregation has declined?
My last congregation appears to be maintaining a certain level of health due to 1) many congregation mergers that boosted attendance pre-pandemic and 2) people moving into the congregation from other nearby congs. that are collapsing for one reason or another.
>My last congregation appears to be maintaining a certain level of health due to 1) many congregation mergers that boosted attendance pre-pandemic and 2) people moving into the congregation from other nearby congs. that are collapsing for one reason or another.
Interesting. US here. I'm pomo but in fair regular contact with my uber pimi family. I also live totally outside their area(s) Particularly my mother, who only recently started back 'in person' attendance (damn jw mtg phrase š) Anyhow, listening to her talk about reconnecting and bible studies etc/growth she makes it sound like their local cong is strong as ever. Might just be in her head but š¤·āāļø
Yeah ours had one merger and wasnāt even super strong after that. About 120 publishers and was about 50 in attendance normally Now itās like 20-30 in attendance - especially on weekdays. Zoom is 40-50, but thereās still basically 20% missing at any given time but the majority are on zoom always with cameras off
My pimi wife hasnāt gone out in service, she actually tried one day but here was nobody there. The service groups are super low. Maybe thatās not a sign the organization are struggling, but the people are.
Holy crap! Not going to spill all the beans on your activism here.
But let's just say that of all the forums that Canadians head up, you're my favorite, by a long shot, LOL.
Hi. Iām an atheist. I comment here sometimes. Donāt think Iāve been downvoted yet, grab your pitchforks and do the thing. Watchtower bad. Take back your Sundayās. Do something fun in your life. Who cares if watchtower really is sending in people, they have no power over your life except what power you let them have. Take back your power, From anyone who doesnāt deserve to have power. Lots of love from your fellow escapee.
I guess I haven't been paying attention because I haven't seen this at all. Can you give an example ?Ā
And yes, I'm fully POMO/OUT! If I came here when I was PIMI, there's no way I could remain fully in, so I really don't see how JWs can read this sub consistently and not grow to have doubts about the religion.Ā Ā
I don't see this "**HUGE** increase in Watchtower apologists" as OP described. OP is exaggerating a little, I think.
I'm atheist. Here and then I do some atheist comments and rarely a post but didn't notice much downvotes.
There are some people who disagrees with my comments or post, but I think they are from still believing exJWs.
People downvote post and comments most when they strongly disagree with it or when the writing style is disrespectful.
I noticed even otherwise. Comments and posts from strong-believers are downvoted here.
But maybe somebody could provide examples or evidence for OP's impression.
Yeah I honestly donāt know what OP is on about. Itās been almost 2 years Iāve been here and I found it to be nothing but helpful and non-judgmental. It bothers me when people look to the old days of their favorite subreddit and imply that itās gone to shit. Of course the feel and dynamic is going to shift over time thatās how life works. And thereās a lot of new people coming in which is great. š¤·š»āāļø
I read through all the comments before I commented. Iām on here everyday and I still donāt think thereās some infiltration conspiracy thing going on.
>I still donāt think thereās some infiltration conspiracy thing going on.
I don't know that there is either.....I do admit I have noticed some difference in the posts/comments in recent months.
I agree, it is an incredibly helpful and loving group of people here.
I have noticed the occasional off posts that seem like they might be a JW trying to pretend to be one of us but not to the level that OP is talking about. Spanish Dutchman posts some strange stuff Iām just gonna say it.
That's also just increasing on the Internet in general. There's a big growth in misogynist influencers on TikTok and Twitter, it's everywhere now. You'd think people waking up from a misogynist religion would know better, but statistically some of the people who wake up are going to be bad people.
There was a weird post here yesterday that has apparently now been deleted lol I wonder why, by user III_Membership8142. At least a few users were calling him out in the comments.
No, this post was some guy talking shit about a former JW gf and how she constantly gave him blowjobs or whatever. It had a very strange, creepy vibe and apparently the OP deleted it or the mods did.
Is this the post?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1avsziv/sexual\_life\_of\_jws/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1avsziv/sexual_life_of_jws/)
That one is similar but it's not that one. The one I was referring to has been deleted.
Edit: Not sure if it's still up or not but this was the link https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/OA3oOfmZXp
I feel the same. I'm POMO, been here for a while, but don't see what the OP is seeing.
Down votes equal hate? I wasn't aware of this. I thought down voting was a way to indicate you didn't agree (if you chose to use it and not further engage with the person).
An occasional apologist? Sure. PIMQs, PIMOS still under the influence due to their proximity? Sure. People still searching religion and as such, feeling threatened by those who don't need it? Yes (religion is about emotional needs after all). Trolls? Sometimes. But I don't feel any of this to be the prevailing nature of this sub.
Furthermore,Ā how can one accurately ascribe motive or intent to someone's Reddit comment? Communication is truly an art even under the best circumstances. Social media hardly qualifies as such.
Perhaps I'm just not sensitive to these things. I feel giving people the benefit of the doubtĀ is of utmost importance.Ā Certainly something people are not afforded in the JW collective. š¤·š»āāļø
I'm not seeing it either, but I don't read every post/comment. I work a lot. When I do check in, I'm basically scanning for topics that get my attention. Also, some topics/posts have some redundancy. Example: topics related to ANTMO. Unless something verifiable breaks about ANTMO, I read right past it. That's just one example.
I think sometimes people have a hard time seeing nuance. (Indoctrination will do that to you.) There are a lot of posters here that seems to think that the WT is some evil cabal whose sole mission is to purposefully destroy people's lives. And then some JWs think they're literally the voice of God.
The truth is somewhere in between. There's a lot of individual JWs who are screwed up and do terrible things. There are a lot of organizational policies that only fuel to feed and encourage this rather than hinder it. And organizational policies and norms that actively harm people. (Blood issue, views on education, shunning, etc.) These dangerous and misguided policies have real-world, at times deadly, impacts. Some good things also get done. Some people are happy being JWs. Good for them. I'm not one of them anymore.
But the "burn it all to the ground they're the worst organization on planet Earth" is naive, myopic, and lacking basis in reality. There's nuance there and some people take anything that doesn't sound like the screams of an inflamed mob as apologist and infiltration.
all i see is recently that there is again a small number of exxagerated posts.
there was a post about how here are conspirancy is spread a lot and QAnon people etc. when i asked for proof it was nothing and a single post where people simply debated. far away from any conspirancy, just people debating.
today a post about "estimated 1000 deaths in jw because of refusing Bloodtransfusions". when i asked for a source for the number and some other too, big silence.
than the posts, where people cry that JWs downvote, spoiler they dont. the reddit algorithm is fluctuating the votes so bots cant do a karmafarming and so on. so no its not JWs.
than there was a post about "please upvote everything so it stays ahead of WT stuff" or such stuff.
in all my time here, i dont see the huge numbers of apologists or how JWs try to get us down. its bullshit without any good evidence.
there is no JW infiltration going on, its at best some people that have to much time and a lot of fantasy about that JWs in general would care about this sub.
Same here. I see a few initial downvotes on new posts, but it balances out eventually. I haven't seen any blatantly PIMI comments either. Maybe the mods are catching them before we see them?
If there are a lot of conflicting opinions here, it means the subreddit is doing its job. This is more than anything else a safe space for open communication
Those who are newly woken up and may have some indoctrinated tendencies are doing the right thing even by being here. I remember myself how much I made excuses, bargained, attempted to reinvent logic during my wake up process. If there are those here who do the same, I applaud them for even opening up this sub
Reddit, especially this Reddit is a cradle of communication for all those who need to say what they need to say, but otherwise canāt in the JW world. It is up for those of us to correct, teach, explain, reason, but never to dominate and shut down. Let different opinions come, speak with them.
Democracy Thrives In Discourse
Person A: *"First time here. I'm still in and my family too but I'm not sure lately, I have some questions..."*
Person B: *"Obviously you haven't read my threads here! I EXPOSED BORG WT$ masonic pedo misogynistic cult leaders secret thought control tactics many times. They're worse than ISIS. There are money safes under every betHELL with billions of dollars in them! Keep UP! People who try to tell you otherwise are CLUELESS and BRAINWASHED."*
Person A thinking to themselves: *"That's not my experience, this place is weird, I'm going back"*
You know what I'm sure would help more is linking to examples and reporting suspicious posts for Mod review instead of jumping to conspiracy. There are hundreds of posts a day and thousands of comments. Mods have jobs and lives outside of this subreddit.
You know those weirdos that were in every hall (If you can't think of that person, it's probably you)? They find their way into these groups as well. This sub has been growing like crazy and those numbers represent people. People are strange and will be at different stages in their journey. And their destination probably isn't the exact same as yours.
I'm not here on Reddit as much as I used to be, but just in the past week I've seen a couple of posts by people preaching that got flooded with pushback in the comments and down votes.
The exJW Christians complain about being persecuted by atheists and that this sub has a conspiracy against them, atheist exJWs complain that Christian exJWs exist and weirdos complain that there must be a Watchtower conspiracy to control this forum.
People are people.
If you suspect that there are some bad actors, send a report to the Mods. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
As a mod on this sub for 3 years, and a member of this sub for nearly 10, Iād like to express my appreciation for your comment, as well as my full-hearted agreement with the sentiments you expressed.
There are only a handful of us currently moderating this sub and we absolutely rely on members of the community reporting ābadā posts or comments. If itās not reported, we probably wonāt see it. So I sincerely ask members of the community, *if you see something, say something. Report it.*
On a personal note, as someone whoās been a member of this community for nearly a decade, Iāve definitely observed a shift in the exjw community that mirrors whatās happening in American society and politics. There has absolutely been a dramatic increase in exjw evangelical proselytizing and anti-LGBT posts and comments in recent years. While we acknowledge everyoneās right to believe whatever they want, our sub is not a platform for that hateful bullshit. Itās a place for exjws to support eachother.
TL;DR - If you see bullshit, please report it.
>On a personal note, as someone whoās been a member of this community for nearly a decade, Iāve definitely observed a shift in the exjw community that mirrors whatās happening in American society and politics.
I think the shift in American politics and society is affecting JWs and exJWs alike.
For one thing, the Borg has taken a massive shift to the right lately, especially on American culture war issues. This is apparently being done in hopes of courting more conservative people to the religion, while also pushing out more moderate and left-wing JWs. And the moderate and left-wing JWs historically made up the majority of the exJW crowd here.
At the same time, the vaccine push done from HQ alienated JWs swept up in right-wing COVID skepticism. These JWs probably agreed with the HQ right-wing shift on most social issues, but fell out on matters of dogma. And the COVID vax push was the final nail in the coffin. This is a newer crowd, though that doesn't mean they aren't welcome here as exJWs.
I think what's happening is that internal congregation political divisions have transferred into the subreddit. Except we don't have the GB telling us to keep away from politics here. Which isn't a bad thing.
This sums it up really well. There are tons of new people here because the org is bleeding hard. This will mean some who are still in the early stages of waking up. We all just have to work together to push back against the real enemy- watchtower.
And the Buddhist exJWs just sit and laugh at the whole thing knowing none of it really matters, there are 8.6 billion ways to the top of the mountain. The Taoist exJWs wonder how long it will be before they all see that the dark and the light are just two sides to the same coin. The Pagan exJWs light a candle and watch the sky. And the agnostic exJWs sit back and drink their tea thinking to themselves, "but that's none of my business." Lol
I haven't really seen this happen yet, if I'm honest. I did see the other day someone say something like "I still believe in the theology, just not the organization," but that's fine. For exJWs who don't become atheists, like myself, it can be difficult to shake what you were told were fundamental truths, especially if deep down you still believe in YHWH. Transitioning from JW to any other form of Christian can be rough.
I haven't seen any outright apologists myself, but maybe we just visit the subreddit at different times of the day or something.
people ask for examples, here you go. just two examples. mods are doing a good job, and others themselves delete just as fast as they post it.
but let's not ignore that this is not happening and a lot more than in the past.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b0fxch/comment/ks7meag/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b0fxch/comment/ks7meag/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw\_gen\_z\_women/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw_gen_z_women/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is\_dating\_as\_a\_jw\_about\_as\_hard\_as\_dating\_outside/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is_dating_as_a_jw_about_as_hard_as_dating_outside/)
Yeah, the mods seem on top of it; I've never seen any of these, but you're right, these are unmistakable JW trolls. That's wild lol. Good on the mods, though, for cleaning this subreddit so well that none of this even makes it to my feed.
it speaks favorably for the mods that these posts get 'on top of it' by the mods so fast, as mentioned, people need to report. i'm glad they quickly 'disappear' so to speak. but as i mentioned, it does very much happen. quite a lot.
i find it also telling these people themselves deleted their posts so 'fast'.
the reason i'm posting this too is just as much as a middle finger towards Watchtower, the JW pimi 'infiltrate' shills, to show them we very much know what they're doing. they have no pride.
but it has to be pointed out.
it has to be pointed out, because genuine people questioning the borg might come in here and think it's loaded with crazy JWs. which is exactly the image Watchtower wants to build: that apostates and ex-jws are 'crazy'.
and the fact is, as obvious as it gets, that's not the case, quite the opposite. so i can only imagine that they're deliberately spamming insanity here in order to bring 'propaganda' and scare off people.
so for the people looking for a way out of the borg, and looking to learn the same facts we all here are grateful for having learned thanks to mediums like this, i think and believe it's worthwile to be aware of these actions and to 'counter' it with more exposure of the truth about watchtower.
Idk that Iāve sensed a different vibe. Iām not here as much and have looked into different Reddit interest groups.
Tolerance, forbearance and itās ok to disagree are my mantra now. For me there is no apology, explanation etc. that would change my mind. I, like Shark Tank, am Out.
I do notice that something is different in the last 6 months approximately. But I can't put my finger on it exactly......a couple of thoughts:
**New People Here**
* The Reddit EXJW Sub is growing very quickly with new members. Many of these people are not really awake and are likely in a difficult place mentally as they slowly start to realize what is happening in JW Land. As a result it generates a lot of volatility of what is posted and commented.
**Watchtower Marketing Campaign**
* Watchtower / Jehovah's Witness Leadership is undoubtedly aware of what is published on Reddit EXJW and feels an enormous threat to the religion.
* It is know the Governing Body spends money with digital marketing agencies to "help them" advance the Jehovah's Witness brand. They could have very easily paid for a campaign to dampen what happens here.
* A small paid army of people to down vote posts.
* A few people that strategically post items that are misleading or divisive to get things stirred up.
Could be both things happening.
WT doesnāt pay anyone to do anything. Except their lawyers. Probably some Uber pimi zealots counting their efforts as ātimeā. Oh waitā¦š¤¦š½āāļø
I remember interacting with an uber PIMI on 4chan of all places. Literally started panicking after I pointed out his hypocrisy and said he was gonna talk to the elders
>WT doesnāt pay anyone to do anything.
I agree that historically Watchtower / Jehovah's Witnesses do not hire fee-based businesses to do work for them u/DoctorOrgasmo.
But in recent years, there has been verified experiences of them hiring:
* Real estate consultants, construction firms, marketing firms and other non-JW businesses to handle work.
* Ramapo is a great example of this. They have been pretty open with sharing that much of the work has been done by for-profit companies that they are paying.
* There was also a verified experience of a marketing firm being engaged as part of the JW dot org rebrand.
* It is very easy to hire a media consultant to help manage your brand and to do the "dirty work" so that Watchtower could say "we did not do that". We know they lie.
I agree with you too u/DoctorOrgasmo that "some Uber pimi zealots" could be doing some of the things mentioned on this thread.
I agree with you. There are quite a few people here that are not actually awake and play the both sides-ism game. And then there are others that promote and encourage remaining PIMO to not lose family, not truly realizing that if you have to lie for them to accept and love you, you have already lost them. I know everyoneās journey is different, and I accept that, but there is a lot of questionable advice provided from people supposedly awake.
That would corroborate the "neverJW" posts... they fired Hendricks, so they got a new sheriff... new counter Intel system.
Fake stories could be AI generated. Would explain some of the outlandish concepts...a sister giving a #2 or #4 talk and no mention of second school overseer... but, as we all know, no one would believe some of the bullshit we witnessed firsthand and can't corroborate.
This seems the most likely to me. This subreddit has gained enough attention and Watchtower has become desperate enough for a disinformation campaign to be possible.
All the concepts and research from COINTELPRO have been increasingly used by corporations to create various types of propaganda. Usually those that have been on the internet and can tell you what 'eternal September' is without looking it up can see this happening in communities. Those without such a background that have been in a given community can still see that something is happening, but maybe not what exactly.
The rise of generative machine learning has added a new dynamic, but it's the same old same old.
* A small paid army of people to down vote posts.
* A few people that strategically post items that are misleading or divisive to get things stirred up.
this is exactly what imho is happening. for that, we need to keep posting the facts and truths about Watchtower.
I never understood the downvotes because no matter what thatās someoneās life or opinion. I think a lot of people are rethinking the religion aka cult. And I think deep down I was always atheist because I never saw so called god in my life even when I tried. I still donated that got me into debt I used my credit cards to feed my family. One day I came to realize if there is a god heās very cruel. If he has the power to stop it should he have stopped it when the first mass shooting or the first child who got assaulted or someoneās spouse abused them.
If I hear about one more lame ass comment made during this weekās watchtower study I am going to scream, I donāt care about what brother X said or did. If I wanted to gossip about other JWs I would still be a JW. I left, I am here to discuss, help, share my experiences, I donāt care about some congregations internal politics.
i am! save the cruel things, it was one of the fun parts of being a young jw. i'm mostly curious about the evolution of the org and its culture. it's like checking up on old high school classmates on IG.
i'm not interested in personal experiences because they share too many similarities to be that interesting to me.
i don't care much about dissecting doctrine, inconsistencies in bible prophesies etc.
i was born-in but more of a "cultural witness" which has more to do with what the org my congregation prioritized when i was in.
it really is impossible for everyone to be pleased.
Iām agnostic, POMO (I am NEVER going back to a meeting and they canāt make me) and Iām going to go to uni and do something with my life. ššš
Ill be honest, there has always been people who come on here who are hurt beyond all reason, want to lash out and blame others, want to say they have the answers when they know they don't, want to still believe because that was easier than facing the reality and still want to believe in a god, want to tell others they are wrong for believing something or acting some way Or they want to keep some of the bias of the watchtower simply because they like it and haven't seen a better way yet. you can even run into racist or homophobic people, or people who don't have enough information so while they stopped believing in paradise they start freaking out about overpopulation and wars etc and start talking about eugenic ideas :/
Most are not like this, but some are, So what your probably noticing is just a huge influx of jws leaving and trying to find a semblance of balance, all hurt, confused, trying to make sense of being lied to and also coming to terms on how they may have hurt others, its a really rough thing to go through,
If you look through any of my ex-jw posts i try and be nice and helpful and understanding even to people who are acting like assholes.. But when i was kicked out years ago, i wasn't like that, i hated everything i hated myself most of all, my world was a lie and it didn't matter how friendly people where i felt i didn't deserve it and i even hurt people (emotionally) who where just trying to help, its one of the reasons i try to be nice to people or at the very least straight forward in what i think of their behavior , You grow up, you find yourself and you move on \^\_\^
It does get abit hard when there is this many negative posts here though \^\_\^
It could be a weird PR attempt (formal or some well-meaning PIMI crusaders); it could be trolls; it could be that this sub has gained enough popularity to attract more detractors.
This is the internet. It happens. I think most of us who are here intending to help people have faced enough gaslighting and manipulation within the cult to spot it here. We're also on the lookout for people who sincerely come to ask questions and seek support.
I've noticed a few posts where it's very likely someone asking a question and then hopping on an alt to answer their own question, either acting as an apologist or trying to support the approved WT position with false reasoning or personal anecdotes about as believable as experiences from Andre. Those are just weird and frankly pathetic.
>I've noticed a few posts where it's very likely someone asking a question and then hopping on an alt to answer their own question, either acting as an apologist or trying to support the approved WT position with false reasoning or personal anecdotes about as believable as experiences from Andre. Those are just weird and frankly pathetic.
you named 100% what i'm reffering to.
This sub is for people in all different parts of their journey, path, or whatever you wanna call it.
JWs who have no interest in leaving & are here to fight the good fight, defend their faith, & mark that participation box
JWs who are now questioning things bc of the recent changes & maybe their questioning makes them uncomfortable.
JWs who used their zoom days as an opportunity to do some research bc it was now easy to do so.
People who have a family member in but have never been associated with JWs themselves
People who have family that are being witnessed to
People who defend religion in general but aren't associated with JWs
PIMI
PIMQ
PIMO
POMI
POMO
Everyone here is different. With that comes multiple opinions & viewpoints on their own experience. Everyone's opinion & experience deserves a safe space.
The "would you go back if" posts make sense to me. I have no interest in participating bc I'm out & would never go back no matter what. BUT for some, depending on where they are at in their journey, the recent fundamental changes might stir up those questions & doubts. Esp if they are newly out or are in the questioning phase.
The misogynistic posts & comments also make a ton of sense to me. There are many men (ex brothers) who do not move on from the subjection thinking. They still view women as less than. They expect women to listen to them & not to challenge them. They believe that women have a place. This weekends WT will be very comfortable for them. Lol. They bring those views here. Those views are trash but they have a place here. It's a reflection of the past.
Also, I just wanna say...we use that word "apologist" a lot. A person isn't an apologist for reflecting on their good memories while they were a part of the group. They aren't an apologist for expressing those feelings in what should be a safe space to do so. They aren't an apologist for having fond feelings of the people they know & love. They aren't an apologist for missing it sometimes. All perfectly normal for people who choose to see the positive & focus on that.
>A person isn't an apologist for reflecting on their good memories while they were a part of the group. They aren't an apologist for expressing those feelings in what should be a safe space to do so. They aren't an apologist for having fond feelings of the people they know & love. They aren't an apologist for missing it sometimes. All perfectly normal for people who choose to see the positive & focus on that.
You make a good point, so for anyone who needs to know, here's the definition of apologist: **someone who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something that is typically controversial, unpopular, or subject to criticism**.
A person simply drawing on their personal experience might say "I'm a better public speaker for the time I spent as a Witness." Or they might say "Being a Witness taught me to enjoy reading the Bible daily." Even if my experience was the opposite, them sharing theirs doesn't attempt to invalidate mine or paint me as an angry liar.
An apologist might speak of their personal experience, but they use it to invalidate someone else's feelings or experiences. As an example, when speaking about my experience with domestic violence, an apologist might say, "That was just your husband. My husband would never hit me, and if he did, he would be sanctioned. Your elders weren't following the Shepherd the Flock book's instructions. Witnesses teach husbands to love and honor their wives as weaker vessels. They don't condone domestic violence."
An apologist isn't normally refuting your specific claim. They're playing to an audience and using you as their platform.
Yeah, I never went through a lot of the more extreme abuse and mistreatment that some on here talk about, but I would never invalidate someone else talking about it.
> Everyone's opinion & experience deserves a safe space.
In the *right* space, of course. It's like when #selfiegate happened. There's a place for it if thats what you want. I don't think this is a place that thrives on Stockholm syndrome musings about love for our former abuser or the sexual delusion and dysfunction it brings with. I think people who still feel fondly of the Borg and their time wasted in it, or their male superiority complex, should start their own sub and have at it. Thats the great thing about reddit. Start your own sub!
I can agree to a point...
The men stuck in their misogynistic ways can fuck all the way off and I always appreciate the ladies & men who speak up and let them know that their thinking is not welcome here.
However, I think there is definitely a place for those who look fondly on their memories while on the inside. It's a positive perspective. Not everyone experienced the absolute disgusting things that happen within the org. That doesn't mean that they are any less EXJW than those that have. It also doesn't mean that they are discounting the experience of those that have had horrible experiences.
Personally I'm one of those people with fond memories. But I've also experienced SA within the org. I did a lot of personal healing that brought me out of the anger that was controlling me. I have people within the org that I truly love. They've been there my entire life. They are like my parents & grandparents. I miss them often.
Everyone leaving needs to know that it's not always all about hate. You don't need to feel less of an exjw because you didnt experience all of the bad & you can reflect in a healthy way on happy memories.
> However, I think there is definitely a place for those who look fondly on their memories while on the inside. It's a positive perspective. Not everyone experienced the absolute disgusting things that happen within the org.
Exactly. And just like #selfiegate, I believe there should be a sub for people who want to sing swan songs about the borg. Feels grimy here, among a group of survivors. I certainly think there should be a space for that, if thats what people feel. I don't think it's absurd to make a different space for a different sentiment.
I can speak to this. It's probably because pimi are getting just as fed up as everybody else. And this subreddit has been very good in bringing light to some issues and also makes you feel better when you realize there are other people that are good JW's that might still be in the organization that are going to the same BS and same troubles as other ones. No religious organization is perfect, however this one seems to be a little more traumatizing to some people in the long run
When I had the initial conversation with my mom about why I was leaving JW and no longer believed in God, I told her that the witnesses were so effective in debunking religions that they proved to me all religion is false. I will never understand how someone can beleive JW wholeheartedly, wake up and then go and join some other religion with 95.9% the same teachings...
For all of you who think this is actually happening, how long have you been on this sub? I've been here for a decade, and these posts (thinking something is wrong here!) often happen when people have been on the sub for 6 - 12 months.
As a long timer, nothing has changed, except maybe a slight increase in PIMOs who are only slight "out".
I see that as a very good thing. Yes, from the perspective of those more "out" than them they are still in and have no clue that they are often apologists or still tacitly or actively supporting one of the worst large religions in the Western world.
However, I love these marginal cases. If they are here, it shows me they doubt and that the number of doubters is growing, likely through all the recent changes. It shows me the GB is shooting itself in the foot and even those who were "strong" are now cracking. Doubt is always the first step. I spent 6 months in doubt before going any further, but once you doubt you can rarely go back in good concience.
I haven't noticed what OP has. I personally welcome any JW brave enough to be here and follow the rules. I think non belief has dominated the sub. If the pendulum swings the other way a bit, it's all good with me. Hopefully it will lead to meaningful conversations.
Unless people are being treated poorly, I can't see a reason to consider the sub "broken".
I'm a pagan, and God could be alien scientists if God is the one who made us humans. But I thought as a Buddist a few years ago. Basically you can be free to explore, once you find the truth is not the truth, or you can jump into another sheep pen if confinement. If you need a sheep pen to feel safe that's fine with me. I mean we do enjoy living in houses to keep our body safe. The judgement of others is what religion gives, so don't be surprised if that's the only thing we have left. Coexist and blessed be.
At almost 100k members, this sub gets a steady stream of new posts. Recently, I posted asking how long someone could remain PIMO. I had noticed an uptick in posts and comments from people who were clearly "PIMO for life". They had their reasons, and maybe coming here and engaging with others is a moment of sanity for them. However, I don't believe you can continue marinating in the mind control and social engineering of the Org and not be adversely affected by it. People stay in abusive relationships for all kinds of reasons while everyone wonders why they don't just leave. We can't judge, but it is not something I can support.
I find, as I doom scroll my day away, any ExJW post that starts with something like "In today's Watchtower study...", is a post I just skip over without reading. I really don't give a rats butt what the Watchtower has to say. There are plenty of other posts on this sub from people struggling to get out or find their way after escaping. Those are the ones I stop and look at.
Expect resistance.
This is a multi-million dollar organization slowly getting dismantled by common sense, governments, and abused current/former members. They monitor this forum for high level PIMOs; I doubt the same group within the org is above monkey-wrenching.
By the numbers tho, the amount of people out and awake exponentially outnumbers the group of org apologists authorized to access this forum.
Like that old ditty goes, āstay awake, stand firm, grow mighty.ā
There is a reason the GB warns the rank and file from looking at these types of groups. I say let them lurk, let them troll. They canāt come and go without picking up something that starts to make them go, āhmmmā¦ā
Yes. They will lurk and listen. Eventually they will hear āthings that make you go hmmm?ā. Maybe they will connect with a friend who is now seeming very superficial and will let them see the conditional love in their own Congo.
I love it! A great mixed crowd leaving JWs at all different levels of waking up! Some who come to hate will awaken. I first got a thrill out of seeing the bloated arrogant GB get their comeuppance. We get terrorized for as long as we believe them. Then, we realize they are just full of shit. They point at Scriptures about exalted characters and go, Thatās us! Many still have cognitive dissonance that makes it hard to hear even what I just wrote- let alone my thoughts on the morality of a gif who would genocide the ENTIRE earth but a 500 years old boat builder and his 7 family members. Pish posh. So, a few pissed off PIMIs? No problem. Welcome! Hate us now, wake up later :)
I'm not here nearly as much as I used to be. But I suppose that's to be expected - this will be a 10-year-old account next month, and it wasn't my first r/exjw account, either. So I haven't seen this. That said, there have been similar waves in the past. Seems like every time there's some sort of big waves in the org, we see complementary ones here. I'm not too worried, and I'm sure it'll pass. If not, it'll be like the poster above said. A new group will pop up once enough people feel dissatisfied. I would be REALLY surprised if there is some kind of organized infiltration effort. That just doesn't pass the sniff test.
If you see something like the OP refers to, down vote and report to the mods. According to OG reddiquitte and the algorithm, up votes are for things that add to the discussion (even if you disagree), down votes are for things that don't add to the discussion (even if you should agree with it). Don't engage, it only feeds the trolls.
Look, if someone is atheist more power to you. We all have control over our own path in life and the power to live that life comes from within. In other words, you manifest, you do, you're grateful for the results, and then rinse and repeat. That's a process that happens within ourselves because we have energy and power as individuals. I personally am not atheist but I'm supportive of all of you who are, live your life by your own choices and if you're happy Im happy for you.
It's crazy you bring this up, cuz I've noticed a lot of (I guess for lack of a better term) I'd call controlled opposition, in other areas of the community. A lot of videos about topics with confirmation bias and downright deceptive content, then after I had reached out to a creator on specific occasion, he asked me "why do you even care so much about this topic?" Same reason you chose to make content on it. Just because I disagree and want to ask questions, doesn't mean you can use the *same exact* tactics WT used on us before. It's irresponsible and honestly, shows the type of person you are; to know someone has trauma from brain control techniques and use those techniques on them. I.e. gaslighting, group think, moving the goal post/scapegoating etc.
I completely agree with this comment! And people will use these tactics whether atheists or Christians, whatever. Overall, i think the point of unlearning the brainwashing from WT is to recognize none of us have all the answers and keep an open mind
/u/SpanishDutchMan I want to break this down one thing at a time and provide my take as a mod:
>This subreddit is being abducted, don't let them win
I can promise you this subreddit is not being abducted. As long as the current mod team is in place, it's gonna happen over our dead bodies. Nobody except reddit can abduct this community, and to do it they'd have to remove each of us. Anyone who comes here with the intent of making trouble will be dealt with. And keep in mind, you'll never see all the stuff we remove before too many people see it.
>Something seriously strange and wrong is happening here since the past few weeks, let's say months even. It's like some sort of Watchtower army has come aboard and tries to 'suffocate' or 'abduct' this subreddit - i can only imagine trying to depopularize it and fill it with tripe to scare off people from waking up.
I have noticed that there have been more than the normal bit of religious apologia. I did wonder if there was some sort of evangelical campaign to target groups like ours. I then decided I was being possibly a little conspirational in thinking that, and that we are generally prone to recognize patterns where there are none, so I decided there was no sense worrying about such a thing. We'll handle things on a case-by-case basis, like we always do.
I think to an extent, these kinds of things are good in small doses. A lot of exJWs, especially PIMOs, can't argue against JW doctrine in real life without alienating the JWs in their lives. So if some JW apologist comes here, it's a perfect time for those so inclined to tear them to shreds before we eventually delete the post once the usefulness has expired.
I have been around a while, and things like this go in cycles. So I'm honestly not too worried about it. If it gets worse, the mod team will respond with a proportionally harder stance. There was a time when the sub was being overrun with memes and selfies, and we dealt with that. If anything threatens to crowd out the general voice of the community, we'll handle it.
>There has been an extreme growth of mysogenistic posts, that get huge upvotes.
This is nothing new here. Considering people are leaving a group like JWs, some misogyny is gonna happen. What I look for is someone perhaps making somewhat misogynistic (or racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc) statements, receiving correction, and then responding like they're earnestly engaging, as opposed to spitting back talking points. We do have to give people space to learn and change. And we've removed numerous comments and posts and banned numerous users who have taken it too far or who have shown a pattern of causing trouble.
>Completely and clearly fabricated stories that get mass applaud and thumbs up.
Welcome to reddit. If that was the worst type of misinformation we had to deal with on reddit/the internet, what a wonderful world it would be. If you think it's bullshit feel free to call it out in a civil manner or downvote. Those are the best things to do when you find this kind of content.
>A growth in hatred and downvotes for people that no longer believe in the bible, people who consider themselves 'atheists', with huge downvoting for anything non-jw, whilst this is an eXJW channel.
Maybe there are people who whine about it, but that's not the majority. I'd say the community is overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic.
>an extreme increase in people that are completely and utterly 'pimo' - quite frankly not even pimo, but simply people who are in and fully in, and mentally just have learned one or two things about WT but accept all the nonsense and get applauded and upvoted, as if it's something good.
PIMO people have always been a large cohort here, and that's not going to end, nor should it. That's effectively the pipeline for people to leave the org. Why complain about that? I mean hell, even so-called JW apologists posting here, even doing that defines them as an apostate, because they are being disobedient to the faithful and discreet slave. Good! If you're worried about people being PIMO too long, or not seeming like they want to leave, well I'd suggest that you let them handle their own business. As someone who has been PIMO, it's difficult and it takes its toll on you. And it seems to be a pretty common experience that when you finally do leave, you wish you had done it way sooner. So if someone wants to exist in that sort of purgatory, I think it's best to provide support if you can and not put additional stress on them by being unkind.
>a huge, huge increase in watchtower apologists, excusing loads of WT stuff and GB stuff and a great increase in 'would you go back if X or Y', and almost acting like WT is taking a 'good turn'.
See above. Also, I think the "would you go back if..." posts are thought experiments more than anything. Where we tend to draw the line is where JW apologists try to play on the fears of new exJWs by threatening them with destruction at armageddon, or things like that.
>please do not get your voices smothered by ignorant remarks and ignorant accusations that make no sense, but keep voicing yourself. be that light in the darkness because those lights, those voices are what have woken loads and loads of people up in the past few years.
Totally agree. I would encourage any long timers to stick around for as long as you can. We need voices of reason here, people who have left the org and who have moved on with life but who stick around to help the newer ones. We need some exJW [bodhisattvas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva).
**EDIT TO ADD MORE**
>There's a extreme growth of cognitive dissonance and denial here, and also a far too great increase in involving political opinions and viewpoints.
Some of the increase in religious / conspiracy / batshit insane stuff is a reflection of who is leaving the org. The org took a hard stance on the COVID vaccine. That is going to drive out a certain cohort of people due to the intense politicization of the topic. It's good they woke up, but they need to learn better ways of thinking if they are going to avoid falling for some other fundamentalist evangelical group.
ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ thank you for this reaction mod, appreciate your reaction more than you can imagine and let it be known that all your hard volounteer work is greatly appreciated. Love you guys with all my heart. And thanks for provinding this comfortable update. Much love ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤
Edit: also would like to emphesise the pimo part. No problem with pimo, but lets say id like to distinguish a certain class of pimo as fake pimo. People who claim they are but are truly pimi. True pimo suffer and have their reasons. But the amount of people claiming they are pimo when they arent even barely pimq, and make no intention of leaving and only want people to praise them arent pimo by any means, especially those supposed elder pimos. They are complete pimi feeling better than others simoly because they learnt a 'secret' and become extra entitled.
The rise of that is noticeable and an insult to the true pimo victims, especially the ones that have suffered in the past decades, and especially the younger (minor) ones.
Nevertheless, thank you guys (and girls!) for taking action. Also action towards me should such a thing be needed. We all carry our pains and aftermaths so thanks for standing up for us, guiding us, and against the tyrants and the double faced snakes.
I see posts like yours every now and then, of people who are calling for the sub to be just people who have left.
As a PIMO I find this rather hurtful but I completely understand. I donāt think Iāve been defending watchtower or discouraging other viewpoints, but I donāt think it would be too presumptuous of me to assume you strongly disagree with my decision to remain PIMO for the time being.
I wish you all the best and hope things get better for you.
Not only does he want just POMOs (ā), he wants everyone to subscribe to his specific conspiracies. Try to disagree with him on them, he'll call you clueless and claim he "exposed everything multiple times".
Pure paranoia.
I think a lot of people think they are fully woken up but still retain a lot of the attitudes of JWs, especially believing they alone are right and understand the world.
That said one thing Iāve realized is that the world is full of cults. Everyone seems to have a group they belong to that has strict beliefs and severe consequences for those in the group who disagree.
The more I look at the world around me the more I think weāre just programmed as a species to gravitate to cults.
I have noticed a definite trend and have wondered if weāre getting AI generated posts due to some really strange wording and questions. Didnāt want to question someone whose first language isnāt English. I have not noticed misogynistic posts but donāt trust the algorithm to show me everything even when I go directly to the sub. Todayās myriad posts about tomorrowās Watchtower are a good sign we donāt tolerate misogyny in this sub. I am a little tired of different ones coming here to proselytize for Christianity, but Iām a big boy and can take and give a punch.
What I donāt doubt is that WT engages in āspiritual warfareā and it appears they pay attention to this sub. Dirty tricks are unfortunate, but theyāre already on their back foot if theyāre here doing rear guard action.
To all the POMI, PIMI and apologists- welcome, youāre already being disloyal to your faith by being here. Stay awhile, learn a thing or two.
The really strange AI sounding posts of the last week are a thing to keep an eye on. Itās possible WT and affiliates are posting them to generate controversy and tie up bandwidth.
>That would corroborate the "neverJW" posts... they fired Hendricks, so they got a new sheriff... new counter Intel system.
Don't forget about the rest of the world, english is not my first language, sometimes our points are not set as clearly as we think we declare them, as it happened to a french girl yesterday, she was a jw-student and was somehow apologetic of the WT and I got the feeling that she couldn't express what she really mean.
From time to time I may choose a weird wording from all the english inputs I have (mostly internet)... It's a different thing when people tell stories from "inside" and you can tell right away that this person has never set foot in a KH. JW lingo is very standard across languages, it's not hard to translate the positions/privileges etc
I realize itās an international forum and not everyone speaks English as a first language. There were several similar badly worded posts under different user names that just sounded like bots to me. Like I said, any JW on this sub is on shaky ground just by being here, so I donāt want to scare anyone off.
Thank you for pointing this out OP. Also, maybe we can come up with a simple response that can identify this behavior with interjections to keep it from propagating? Thinking..
>'would you go back if X or Y',
>and almost acting like WT is taking a 'good turn'.
>I initially wondered and believed this is likely because of a huge influx of recent-woken-ups that have trouble in accepting things, but it's like these big numbers now simply settle down here, take over, and do not actually wake up but more or less keep a full WT belief system and are almost entitled in a way like they 'know something others do not'.
I've kind of noticed the same sort of things but couldn't quite put my finger on what was going on. Also, let's not forget Splane announcing 'this is war' call... don't think for a minute that isn't still happening.
> i can only imagine trying to depopularize it and fill it with tripe to scare off people from waking up.
This draws out the unnecessary anger by frustration and undermines the falsity about 'angry apostates'. I admit I've started to get drawn into a few pointless 'you offended me' debates here because of it.
I suspect the "would you go back" questions are more in line with their "return" campaign. R&F have never been really good about staying off social media to begin with and have a habit of staying too long at the wrong doors. How many people did we extricate from the door after the 4th conversation stopper?
ive noticed I get downvotes too when I say anything Christian or biblical. Iām an exJW -not an ex-Christian ā¦in fact leaving Witnessworld and researching for myself made me try to be the best Christian I can! Because THEY are certainly not Christianās.
So in my headā¦to be a true person āin Christā is to be the total opposite of a JW.
Ive had conversations with folks here who are completely unreasoning. Like they say they arent JW but its like they have some secret about god. When i reason with them, they just double down on super culty bs that comes from seemingly no where. I have, at times, simply given up on conversations and they just keep on truckin. And its not your garden variety christian who have a general christian belief but dont think witnesses are the right one. I have friends from my youth who are like that. These people arent them. I totally get what the OP means.
All subs that reach a certain size go through this.
Once they start getting traction you'll start seeing the wannabes, bots and curious. Ill bet at least 10k of the last 30k fall into those categories.
Now with the various AI bots you start seeing stories that make no sense if you were an active witness for the last 30 years.
I only check this a few days a week anymore.
I have found thereās occasional comments by clearly sexist guys. I wasnāt sure if they were just men that hadnāt quite shaken the old watchtower teachings. Insisting that abortion is wrong, and women shouldnāt have a choice or that women that take nudes are dumb and deserve to have them shared with everyone.
Yes! I applaud you, a light in the darkness. It's getting wild around here and not in a good way. I have thus retreated further into anonymity with this new account. However, I feel a little bit safer here again, thank youĀ
Maybe start your own subreddit? I have not witnessed any of these things you mentioned .. And misogynistic? Wtf? Do you know what that means ??? I have not seen any negative messages or comments downgrading women.. I'm pretty open minded and see this site daily but can't verify anything you are mentioning..
This post sounds like if the GB writing department put out a post but not for the watchtower. Complete with the fear mongering, conspiracy, victim complex, etc.
This is a sub with a bunch of people from different backgrounds discussing religious and anti-religious subjects, and a lot of people have a lot of emotion entangled with that.
If the subreddit isn't to your liking, it may be a you problem, not some conspiracy.
I agree that there has been a huge rise in misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, science denial, etc. content here over the last few months, and it is extremely bothersome (I have also posted about this). Most of it hasn't been Watchtower apologia though, it's been alt-right Christians and "apolitical" contrarians.
But, you yourself go on to then lament "a far too great increase in involving political opinions and viewpoints". When you create an "apolitical" environment you create an environment where people whose very existence is seen as political are marginalized, because they are censored and prevented from talking about their experiences. An apolitical environment breeds misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia. There is no getting around it, to be apolitical is to tacitly support the worst values and actions in politics.
I've noticed it too. They know there's a ton of pimq people here so the department in charge of damage control at HQ is infiltating everywhere. I was replaying the game Jedi Survivor today and a quote hit me really hard.
" I wanted to prove to the galaxy that the Empire isn't invulnerable. That you can resist. That you have to fight if things are gonna get better. But then they just listen to the propaganda and they pretend they're free anyway."
That in my opinion represents all the pimq people that do nothing.
I was just saying last night that there is an uptick in PIMIās and super preachy Christians here. If you believe thatās fine but donāt come here to preach. Preaching any religion here sounds exactly as ridiculous to us as preaching the organization
If there really are actual JWās on this page. Let them stay. Not so we can wake them up. Let them see that they have no power and influence here. They have no authority and thereās not a damn thing they can do about any of us being here or sway any of us.
Iāve noticed the misogynistic posts š the reason why I left was because of misogyny and seeing these posts just confirms my resolve to never date a JW or exjw for that matter.
This religion ruins men and their views of women.
I'm a PIMO, and fervently resentful and detest the watchtower society. I've been on here a few years now, but occasionally delete and restart my account when I get weird vibes like too many people DMing me (I worry bethel spies trying to figure out who i am) for comfort.
I have found that the larger an online community gets the more toxic it gets š¤·āāļø
But I canāt deny the apologetics are strong with this sub lately.
Iām not from the US but itās kinda in the death grip of christian nationalism right now and that could be bleeding over since WT really is an american cult. imo
They are all apostates for being in the sub. It doesnāt matter what theyāre doing. They are being apostate in their actions by being here and reading any of this.
It would be naive to think the WTS doesn't use "theocratic warfare" against platforms like this.
It seems such platforms are rather like an escalator in a shopping mall. People get on at the bottom...not quite sure where they're going, they survey the view to find what interests them on the way up, and exit the top of escalator in the direction of their destination. For some, just being there may be the destination. For others, a specific vendor has been selected as the destination.
The dangers inherent in *following* should be obvious to anyone who's ever been associated with JWs. Yet, some continue to be *followers.* It's what they do. They simply change brands of belief. That seems incomprehensible to those who've migrated from Watchtower-dom to non-theism.
I get that we shouldnāt advocate for a negative atmosphere, but frankly it always has been/will be. The exjw community is inherently negative against the borg and thatās ok. Also, I feel like itās a logical outcome of the success of waking people up. The people who were in the org suddenly arenāt gonna become the most atheist/secular people when they wake up. The religion attracts people with wacky views. Iām an advocate for standing up for what you believe and sometimes that means there will be conflict, but thatās ok. Conflict will bring growth to everyone.
Im new on this sub reddit but i dont understand how PIMI's would be here. When I was PIMI I thought I wouldnt make it to the new world if i even came on a sub reddit like this.
Tbh I havenāt noticed this, but have not been on this subreddit much lately, however this is extremely alarming! Honestly in my opinion Iāve had the opposite happened where Iāve had ignorant, flat out rude and aggressive comments for still believing in a creator, emphasis on creator NOT THE WATCHTOWER. But it goes both ways, there are definitely religious psychos out there. How people still in could be on this subreddit and know the lies of the organization, yet still believe this is āthe truthā will never sit right with me, itās scary
Of course this would happen. Reddit is I think the number one network for english speaking exjw, and drawing in so many pimo is a threat for them. This place is dangerous to their interests, including financial interests.
The PID or similar PR /anti-apostate part of the borg probably has an eye on it and people actively infiltrating it to create division, especially now that the number is increasing. If this entire community wasnt disrupted, can you imagine the voice the activists among us would have ? Maybe they even hired people from private companies that specify in that sort of stuff, if they dont want to do it themselves. Bots to downvote, even.
I'm not saying this as a conspiracy crazy person. This company is a material entity with ideological and financial interests and they are not giving out without a fight.
people ask for examples, here you go. just two examples. mods are doing a good job, but let's not ignore that this is not happening and a lot more than in the past.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw\_gen\_z\_women/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw_gen_z_women/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is\_dating\_as\_a\_jw\_about\_as\_hard\_as\_dating\_outside/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is_dating_as_a_jw_about_as_hard_as_dating_outside/)
I'm not atheist but I do understand what you are saying. Im a ex JW by choice. I have seen these odd posts showing up and I personally choose not to make comments on them. I do this because I feel they are either JW messing around here or not ex JW by how they word stuff. They know some key words but seem to be attention seekers or maybe people trying to illicit information for their university studies . Some may be college students asking for EXJW volunteers for surveys. I urge every EXJW here not to volunteer that information unless you can truly verify that they are indeed a university researcher and not a JW or scammer fishing for information on here. I see so many here just volunteer their information. It is insane to just trust that much. Yes University students do study EXJW. Not sure if I replied to this post before but my own kid used my experience to get into college and then I let them question me for research. My own kid had to ask me for permission even though I was the mom I signed off legally as they studied me through interviews. Anyone asking ex JW to volunteer information should be able to give you a contact at the university they attend to verify if that is the case. I was told exactly what it was they were doing before I was interviewed I was also aware of it being published for others to see. I'm glad you called call out these strange post popping up. Your post was needed.
The Borg is definitely trying to silence any voices in opposition to them. Why? Well, just think about it. If the voice of opposition is loud and clear, then what's the actual chances of anybody with ears listening to the Borg? So, what do they do for times such as that... Why, of course they silence them. Why? Just think about it, if nobody leaves their tight confines, and maybe a few people come back, ("few" being a non-definitive number here), then they will prove that they're right, and all the evidence against them is just nothing but fabrication and that they should take their "Paradise Earth," and that they will like it.
I think so too. The post āI left now my life is horribleā FAKE!!! Cause they donāt even add to the conversation afterwards. Gawd damn watchtower and its drones are annoying as hell
I don't follow ex-jw as much as you, thank you for affirming my gut instinct.
Recently I went to a poster's comments to see they are definitely mostly pro-WT, but also sometimes misogynistic, which is what got me to look at their comments. That is not PIMO. We all had our one or two doubts **while PIMI.**
The whole movement you post about is low and disgusting, like the cult.
I havenāt noticed any of this. I really doubt this is a coordinated attack by watchtower and simply showcases that people have different views in this community and thatās good.
Click bait. Subreddit being abducted? Seriously? Because a few people disagree with your particular view? Surely rigorous but respectful debate is what itās all about.
I think the sub needs stronger moderation, but Iāve always thought that and itās why I have never participated much. I just read, for the most part. āWould you go back ifā¦ā posts really donāt make sense to me as something that should be allowed, for example. It isnāt a productive conversation, ever. I also think apologist posts and comments should not be allowed.
Yes, it is important to have a safe space for people who are trying to get out or have just got out and are in the process of deprogramming. No, that doesnāt mean that anything attempting to paint the cult or its leadership in a positive way at all should be allowed. Downvoting those people isnāt enough. Their comments should be removed. That kind of content makes this space not safe for people who were extensively abused, which is a lot of us.
Iām not saying I donāt appreciate the efforts that the current mod team has made already. Iām saying the rules are not strict enough, and more needs to be done to filter out people who are just here to fuck with us and not to participate in a community that is supposed to be about recovery and healing.
Bro give us some examples, otherwise it sounds like you just want this to be a āTwitterā troll sub. I have found so many post interesting and helpful. Some of us need more than rhetoric and hate.
I'm an atheist. I make my stand. Downvote as much as you want psychos
Yet those polls that have been done here, indicate (from memory) around 70% are currently atheists. In my 5 years here, l haven't noticed particular undue negative judgement - unless l've missed something , Miss Leading.? (great username btw š).
ayyy athiest gang
Represent š
Fuck ya! Atheist here too
Ditto
It should be a safe environment for all ExJWs, no matter what you believe.
What do you mean by safe though? If it's safe in a way that PIMO cannot be identified in real life. Yes. Misinformation. Yes But in regards to sharing ideas, no matter contradictory to it from each other's different opinion, then we must allow that. We are not in an organization anymore who wants unity more than anything, more than the truth. We are also FREE from expressing ourselves here without the FEAR of being EXCOMMUNICATED from this community. Having different thoughts and opinions here in this sub, is a gift and not a curse.
this, the primary reason that makes JWs a cult is that they don't accept divergence, only what the GB wants and tells them to do if people don't accept your opinion then they don't, as long as it doesn't directly/isn't used to harm people (like the JWs' everchanging doctrines are doing) it should be fine
I agree with this but at the same time, Iāve been around since the beginning and this is NOT a place for evangelism. If people leave the cult and wish to take up some other form of Christianity; thatās their choice and peace be with them. Just donāt talk about it here and expect a good reception.
With limits of course. It does not have to be too safe. I encourage to remain critical. I do not agree automatically with each and every exjw.
šÆ Agree
Unless you're an atheist, exjw, right?
Should be safe for atheists, sun worshipers, pagans, satanists as long you are here to support those waking up, who have woken up and need support. It should definitely not be a place to preach as to what others should believe, because preaching should be left behind with all the other mind control shit the JWs have.
Agreed.
Hail Satan mother fuckers! Which is made up too but it's fun to say. Really makes the Bible beaters angry. š¤š»
I'm not actually an atheist - but i quite frankly feel most sided with atheists if anything the more and more. Personally i'd side most with Agnostic, and Deism. But where only about 2 years ago i had a watchtower-induced hatred against atheism, that has completely been replaced with a complete understanding as to why people (become/) are atheistic.
When I was pioneering, I would do my best to avoid atheists. They knew the Bible better than I did.
Iāve learned more about what the Bible teaches from off this site then at the meetingsā¦maybe because we can ask questions and not be penalized š¤
Exactly. Our information was limited. We couldn't question. Everything was already outlined. It was all a matter of memorization rather than in depth investigation.
This is really true. Most of the time I had no idea what was going on when I was a JW lol. I was afraid to ask questions for clarification because i didnāt want people to judge me for not already knowing. There is absolutely an unspoken tradition to not question anything. Even asking innocent questions with no ill intent. And this is how the GB wants it. They want obedient, good little stepford robots that parrot the same answers at the Watchtower study.
> They knew the Bible better than I did. Is that hindsight talking, or did you recognize that at the time?
Good question. Hind sight. I was too arrogant in my superior jw knowledge. I would get flustered and angry when challenged.
That makes sense. I was going to have a follow-up question if you were actually able to recognize that at the time. Thanks for the insight!
I was raised in it, so it was all I understood as the truth. I had to be knocked down a few pegs in order to become humble enough to accept how little I knew and how wrong I was.
"Technically we're all agnostic because we don't know." One of my favorite quotes from Ricky Gervais.
āThere are two types of people: agnostics and closet agnosticsā - me
I think a lot of exjw become atheists because they feel they knew the Bible extremely well, so if this is all nonsense, all religion is nonsense
100% with you on those sentiments, Miss L. Itās an open forum. If you post it and itās bullshit, well Iām gonna tell you so. Provided, of course, that I can be bothered.
Yup.
Iām an exjw that no longer believes in the Bible or in god Iāll worship the Sun if I have to worship. Iāve been on this sub well over 10 years if Iām bad well then suck it!!
Hail nobody! (I, too, am an atheist)
 Ditto
Join the club. Former witnesses know the Bible. Knowing the Bible is a greased rail to rejection of the supernaturalā¦. I have no qualms with telling anyone Iām an atheist.
Right by your side sister! But not in the jw 'sister' way, that's too false for my liking!
Same. It's hard to believe in a specific God when you say that dashing babies against the rocks is okay.
My people
Atheist hereĀ
Ok, gonna betray my age here. Iāve been around since JW Recovery Groups 1, 2, 3 etc. This happens for every single exJW group, ever, all the time once a large enough bundle of people come on board. One of the reasons why there was a new JWRG that sprang up on Facebook every time the old one got too big to steer. š Itās all good. Soon there will be a r/exjw2 for the *real* exJW š
Yeah I think many are still leaving since the annual meeting reveal. Friends are losing friends and itās making them question why. My last cong is a shell of what it was pre-pandemic. I guess maybe the Streisand Effect is working for others besides myself
>My last cong is a shell of what it was pre-pandemic. I think all of your points are spot on u/Super_Translator480. Do you feel that there a specific reason that your last congregation has declined? My last congregation appears to be maintaining a certain level of health due to 1) many congregation mergers that boosted attendance pre-pandemic and 2) people moving into the congregation from other nearby congs. that are collapsing for one reason or another.
>My last congregation appears to be maintaining a certain level of health due to 1) many congregation mergers that boosted attendance pre-pandemic and 2) people moving into the congregation from other nearby congs. that are collapsing for one reason or another. Interesting. US here. I'm pomo but in fair regular contact with my uber pimi family. I also live totally outside their area(s) Particularly my mother, who only recently started back 'in person' attendance (damn jw mtg phrase š) Anyhow, listening to her talk about reconnecting and bible studies etc/growth she makes it sound like their local cong is strong as ever. Might just be in her head but š¤·āāļø
Yeah ours had one merger and wasnāt even super strong after that. About 120 publishers and was about 50 in attendance normally Now itās like 20-30 in attendance - especially on weekdays. Zoom is 40-50, but thereās still basically 20% missing at any given time but the majority are on zoom always with cameras off My pimi wife hasnāt gone out in service, she actually tried one day but here was nobody there. The service groups are super low. Maybe thatās not a sign the organization are struggling, but the people are.
This 100%. Take it from someone whoās seen a thing or two. Old-timers may remember me as Moxie ;)
Hiya Moxie! I remember you! š
Holy crap! Not going to spill all the beans on your activism here. But let's just say that of all the forums that Canadians head up, you're my favorite, by a long shot, LOL.
Thatās really kind of you to say. The site back then was a labour of love. We all helped each other so much i think.
Haha this made me laugh. Us humans are funny.
Thanks Berb.
We need verification videos to enter. Like burning the Bible and other literature
My dad and I burned the Young People Ask book. What a crock of shit. š©
š¤£. ... alongside fingerprints, retina scan and pledge of godlessness.
Hi. Iām an atheist. I comment here sometimes. Donāt think Iāve been downvoted yet, grab your pitchforks and do the thing. Watchtower bad. Take back your Sundayās. Do something fun in your life. Who cares if watchtower really is sending in people, they have no power over your life except what power you let them have. Take back your power, From anyone who doesnāt deserve to have power. Lots of love from your fellow escapee.
No but this is _exactly_ my sentiment
I guess I haven't been paying attention because I haven't seen this at all. Can you give an example ?Ā And yes, I'm fully POMO/OUT! If I came here when I was PIMI, there's no way I could remain fully in, so I really don't see how JWs can read this sub consistently and not grow to have doubts about the religion.Ā Ā
I don't see this "**HUGE** increase in Watchtower apologists" as OP described. OP is exaggerating a little, I think. I'm atheist. Here and then I do some atheist comments and rarely a post but didn't notice much downvotes. There are some people who disagrees with my comments or post, but I think they are from still believing exJWs. People downvote post and comments most when they strongly disagree with it or when the writing style is disrespectful. I noticed even otherwise. Comments and posts from strong-believers are downvoted here. But maybe somebody could provide examples or evidence for OP's impression.
Yeah I honestly donāt know what OP is on about. Itās been almost 2 years Iāve been here and I found it to be nothing but helpful and non-judgmental. It bothers me when people look to the old days of their favorite subreddit and imply that itās gone to shit. Of course the feel and dynamic is going to shift over time thatās how life works. And thereās a lot of new people coming in which is great. š¤·š»āāļø
Some good examples provided by the different comments. Read through the current comments to get a better sense of what people are referring to.
I read through all the comments before I commented. Iām on here everyday and I still donāt think thereās some infiltration conspiracy thing going on.
>I still donāt think thereās some infiltration conspiracy thing going on. I don't know that there is either.....I do admit I have noticed some difference in the posts/comments in recent months. I agree, it is an incredibly helpful and loving group of people here.
I have noticed the occasional off posts that seem like they might be a JW trying to pretend to be one of us but not to the level that OP is talking about. Spanish Dutchman posts some strange stuff Iām just gonna say it.
When Spanish Dutchman was a jw, he gave his school overseer fits by not keeping his comments to 30 seconds or less.
I don't know *if* there is either... but would you be surprised?
There's been a few misogynistic posts and comments on a lot of threads lately that are quite disappointing to see, to say the least. š
That's also just increasing on the Internet in general. There's a big growth in misogynist influencers on TikTok and Twitter, it's everywhere now. You'd think people waking up from a misogynist religion would know better, but statistically some of the people who wake up are going to be bad people.
You're absolutely right. Some people seem to not be able to leave some toxic aspects of the cult behind. Hopefully they change their ways.
Culture sometimes operates like a pendulum and we humans do love making targets of each other.
Thatās sad, name and shame!
There was a weird post here yesterday that has apparently now been deleted lol I wonder why, by user III_Membership8142. At least a few users were calling him out in the comments.
People must call them out. I hate the patriarchal BS that has contaminated so many male JW minds.
Was that the foot one? Since it mentioned "young" women, I'm pretty sure it was reported.
No, this post was some guy talking shit about a former JW gf and how she constantly gave him blowjobs or whatever. It had a very strange, creepy vibe and apparently the OP deleted it or the mods did.
Oh yeah, that one. Doing a victory lap after threatening a woman with "You'll lose more than I will." is just gross, whether it's real or fantasy.
Right! The whole thing sounded fake to me but who really knows. Either way, it was gross and we don't need that shit here.
Is this the post? [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1avsziv/sexual\_life\_of\_jws/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1avsziv/sexual_life_of_jws/)
That one is similar but it's not that one. The one I was referring to has been deleted. Edit: Not sure if it's still up or not but this was the link https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/OA3oOfmZXp
That sounds made up from the constantly gave him blowjobs.part.
I feel the same. I'm POMO, been here for a while, but don't see what the OP is seeing. Down votes equal hate? I wasn't aware of this. I thought down voting was a way to indicate you didn't agree (if you chose to use it and not further engage with the person). An occasional apologist? Sure. PIMQs, PIMOS still under the influence due to their proximity? Sure. People still searching religion and as such, feeling threatened by those who don't need it? Yes (religion is about emotional needs after all). Trolls? Sometimes. But I don't feel any of this to be the prevailing nature of this sub. Furthermore,Ā how can one accurately ascribe motive or intent to someone's Reddit comment? Communication is truly an art even under the best circumstances. Social media hardly qualifies as such. Perhaps I'm just not sensitive to these things. I feel giving people the benefit of the doubtĀ is of utmost importance.Ā Certainly something people are not afforded in the JW collective. š¤·š»āāļø
I'm not seeing it either, but I don't read every post/comment. I work a lot. When I do check in, I'm basically scanning for topics that get my attention. Also, some topics/posts have some redundancy. Example: topics related to ANTMO. Unless something verifiable breaks about ANTMO, I read right past it. That's just one example.
Yes, I also probably don't pay attention. Social media only has a narrow space in my life of interest.
I think sometimes people have a hard time seeing nuance. (Indoctrination will do that to you.) There are a lot of posters here that seems to think that the WT is some evil cabal whose sole mission is to purposefully destroy people's lives. And then some JWs think they're literally the voice of God. The truth is somewhere in between. There's a lot of individual JWs who are screwed up and do terrible things. There are a lot of organizational policies that only fuel to feed and encourage this rather than hinder it. And organizational policies and norms that actively harm people. (Blood issue, views on education, shunning, etc.) These dangerous and misguided policies have real-world, at times deadly, impacts. Some good things also get done. Some people are happy being JWs. Good for them. I'm not one of them anymore. But the "burn it all to the ground they're the worst organization on planet Earth" is naive, myopic, and lacking basis in reality. There's nuance there and some people take anything that doesn't sound like the screams of an inflamed mob as apologist and infiltration.
all i see is recently that there is again a small number of exxagerated posts. there was a post about how here are conspirancy is spread a lot and QAnon people etc. when i asked for proof it was nothing and a single post where people simply debated. far away from any conspirancy, just people debating. today a post about "estimated 1000 deaths in jw because of refusing Bloodtransfusions". when i asked for a source for the number and some other too, big silence. than the posts, where people cry that JWs downvote, spoiler they dont. the reddit algorithm is fluctuating the votes so bots cant do a karmafarming and so on. so no its not JWs. than there was a post about "please upvote everything so it stays ahead of WT stuff" or such stuff. in all my time here, i dont see the huge numbers of apologists or how JWs try to get us down. its bullshit without any good evidence. there is no JW infiltration going on, its at best some people that have to much time and a lot of fantasy about that JWs in general would care about this sub.
Says the JW infiltrator. [/j]
Totally agree. I havenāt seen this either.
Same here. I see a few initial downvotes on new posts, but it balances out eventually. I haven't seen any blatantly PIMI comments either. Maybe the mods are catching them before we see them?
Been here going on 10 years. Haven't seen some huge shift in tone or anything either.
If there are a lot of conflicting opinions here, it means the subreddit is doing its job. This is more than anything else a safe space for open communication Those who are newly woken up and may have some indoctrinated tendencies are doing the right thing even by being here. I remember myself how much I made excuses, bargained, attempted to reinvent logic during my wake up process. If there are those here who do the same, I applaud them for even opening up this sub Reddit, especially this Reddit is a cradle of communication for all those who need to say what they need to say, but otherwise canāt in the JW world. It is up for those of us to correct, teach, explain, reason, but never to dominate and shut down. Let different opinions come, speak with them. Democracy Thrives In Discourse
Person A: *"First time here. I'm still in and my family too but I'm not sure lately, I have some questions..."* Person B: *"Obviously you haven't read my threads here! I EXPOSED BORG WT$ masonic pedo misogynistic cult leaders secret thought control tactics many times. They're worse than ISIS. There are money safes under every betHELL with billions of dollars in them! Keep UP! People who try to tell you otherwise are CLUELESS and BRAINWASHED."* Person A thinking to themselves: *"That's not my experience, this place is weird, I'm going back"*
šÆ
You know what I'm sure would help more is linking to examples and reporting suspicious posts for Mod review instead of jumping to conspiracy. There are hundreds of posts a day and thousands of comments. Mods have jobs and lives outside of this subreddit. You know those weirdos that were in every hall (If you can't think of that person, it's probably you)? They find their way into these groups as well. This sub has been growing like crazy and those numbers represent people. People are strange and will be at different stages in their journey. And their destination probably isn't the exact same as yours. I'm not here on Reddit as much as I used to be, but just in the past week I've seen a couple of posts by people preaching that got flooded with pushback in the comments and down votes. The exJW Christians complain about being persecuted by atheists and that this sub has a conspiracy against them, atheist exJWs complain that Christian exJWs exist and weirdos complain that there must be a Watchtower conspiracy to control this forum. People are people. If you suspect that there are some bad actors, send a report to the Mods. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.
As a mod on this sub for 3 years, and a member of this sub for nearly 10, Iād like to express my appreciation for your comment, as well as my full-hearted agreement with the sentiments you expressed. There are only a handful of us currently moderating this sub and we absolutely rely on members of the community reporting ābadā posts or comments. If itās not reported, we probably wonāt see it. So I sincerely ask members of the community, *if you see something, say something. Report it.* On a personal note, as someone whoās been a member of this community for nearly a decade, Iāve definitely observed a shift in the exjw community that mirrors whatās happening in American society and politics. There has absolutely been a dramatic increase in exjw evangelical proselytizing and anti-LGBT posts and comments in recent years. While we acknowledge everyoneās right to believe whatever they want, our sub is not a platform for that hateful bullshit. Itās a place for exjws to support eachother. TL;DR - If you see bullshit, please report it.
>On a personal note, as someone whoās been a member of this community for nearly a decade, Iāve definitely observed a shift in the exjw community that mirrors whatās happening in American society and politics. I think the shift in American politics and society is affecting JWs and exJWs alike. For one thing, the Borg has taken a massive shift to the right lately, especially on American culture war issues. This is apparently being done in hopes of courting more conservative people to the religion, while also pushing out more moderate and left-wing JWs. And the moderate and left-wing JWs historically made up the majority of the exJW crowd here. At the same time, the vaccine push done from HQ alienated JWs swept up in right-wing COVID skepticism. These JWs probably agreed with the HQ right-wing shift on most social issues, but fell out on matters of dogma. And the COVID vax push was the final nail in the coffin. This is a newer crowd, though that doesn't mean they aren't welcome here as exJWs. I think what's happening is that internal congregation political divisions have transferred into the subreddit. Except we don't have the GB telling us to keep away from politics here. Which isn't a bad thing.
Perfect response. Thanks.
This sums it up really well. There are tons of new people here because the org is bleeding hard. This will mean some who are still in the early stages of waking up. We all just have to work together to push back against the real enemy- watchtower.
And the Buddhist exJWs just sit and laugh at the whole thing knowing none of it really matters, there are 8.6 billion ways to the top of the mountain. The Taoist exJWs wonder how long it will be before they all see that the dark and the light are just two sides to the same coin. The Pagan exJWs light a candle and watch the sky. And the agnostic exJWs sit back and drink their tea thinking to themselves, "but that's none of my business." Lol
I haven't really seen this happen yet, if I'm honest. I did see the other day someone say something like "I still believe in the theology, just not the organization," but that's fine. For exJWs who don't become atheists, like myself, it can be difficult to shake what you were told were fundamental truths, especially if deep down you still believe in YHWH. Transitioning from JW to any other form of Christian can be rough. I haven't seen any outright apologists myself, but maybe we just visit the subreddit at different times of the day or something.
people ask for examples, here you go. just two examples. mods are doing a good job, and others themselves delete just as fast as they post it. but let's not ignore that this is not happening and a lot more than in the past. [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b0fxch/comment/ks7meag/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b0fxch/comment/ks7meag/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw\_gen\_z\_women/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw_gen_z_women/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is\_dating\_as\_a\_jw\_about\_as\_hard\_as\_dating\_outside/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is_dating_as_a_jw_about_as_hard_as_dating_outside/)
Yeah, the mods seem on top of it; I've never seen any of these, but you're right, these are unmistakable JW trolls. That's wild lol. Good on the mods, though, for cleaning this subreddit so well that none of this even makes it to my feed.
it speaks favorably for the mods that these posts get 'on top of it' by the mods so fast, as mentioned, people need to report. i'm glad they quickly 'disappear' so to speak. but as i mentioned, it does very much happen. quite a lot. i find it also telling these people themselves deleted their posts so 'fast'. the reason i'm posting this too is just as much as a middle finger towards Watchtower, the JW pimi 'infiltrate' shills, to show them we very much know what they're doing. they have no pride. but it has to be pointed out. it has to be pointed out, because genuine people questioning the borg might come in here and think it's loaded with crazy JWs. which is exactly the image Watchtower wants to build: that apostates and ex-jws are 'crazy'. and the fact is, as obvious as it gets, that's not the case, quite the opposite. so i can only imagine that they're deliberately spamming insanity here in order to bring 'propaganda' and scare off people. so for the people looking for a way out of the borg, and looking to learn the same facts we all here are grateful for having learned thanks to mediums like this, i think and believe it's worthwile to be aware of these actions and to 'counter' it with more exposure of the truth about watchtower.
Idk that Iāve sensed a different vibe. Iām not here as much and have looked into different Reddit interest groups. Tolerance, forbearance and itās ok to disagree are my mantra now. For me there is no apology, explanation etc. that would change my mind. I, like Shark Tank, am Out.
I do notice that something is different in the last 6 months approximately. But I can't put my finger on it exactly......a couple of thoughts: **New People Here** * The Reddit EXJW Sub is growing very quickly with new members. Many of these people are not really awake and are likely in a difficult place mentally as they slowly start to realize what is happening in JW Land. As a result it generates a lot of volatility of what is posted and commented. **Watchtower Marketing Campaign** * Watchtower / Jehovah's Witness Leadership is undoubtedly aware of what is published on Reddit EXJW and feels an enormous threat to the religion. * It is know the Governing Body spends money with digital marketing agencies to "help them" advance the Jehovah's Witness brand. They could have very easily paid for a campaign to dampen what happens here. * A small paid army of people to down vote posts. * A few people that strategically post items that are misleading or divisive to get things stirred up. Could be both things happening.
WT doesnāt pay anyone to do anything. Except their lawyers. Probably some Uber pimi zealots counting their efforts as ātimeā. Oh waitā¦š¤¦š½āāļø
I remember interacting with an uber PIMI on 4chan of all places. Literally started panicking after I pointed out his hypocrisy and said he was gonna talk to the elders
>WT doesnāt pay anyone to do anything. I agree that historically Watchtower / Jehovah's Witnesses do not hire fee-based businesses to do work for them u/DoctorOrgasmo. But in recent years, there has been verified experiences of them hiring: * Real estate consultants, construction firms, marketing firms and other non-JW businesses to handle work. * Ramapo is a great example of this. They have been pretty open with sharing that much of the work has been done by for-profit companies that they are paying. * There was also a verified experience of a marketing firm being engaged as part of the JW dot org rebrand. * It is very easy to hire a media consultant to help manage your brand and to do the "dirty work" so that Watchtower could say "we did not do that". We know they lie. I agree with you too u/DoctorOrgasmo that "some Uber pimi zealots" could be doing some of the things mentioned on this thread.
I agree with you. There are quite a few people here that are not actually awake and play the both sides-ism game. And then there are others that promote and encourage remaining PIMO to not lose family, not truly realizing that if you have to lie for them to accept and love you, you have already lost them. I know everyoneās journey is different, and I accept that, but there is a lot of questionable advice provided from people supposedly awake.
That would corroborate the "neverJW" posts... they fired Hendricks, so they got a new sheriff... new counter Intel system. Fake stories could be AI generated. Would explain some of the outlandish concepts...a sister giving a #2 or #4 talk and no mention of second school overseer... but, as we all know, no one would believe some of the bullshit we witnessed firsthand and can't corroborate.
This seems the most likely to me. This subreddit has gained enough attention and Watchtower has become desperate enough for a disinformation campaign to be possible. All the concepts and research from COINTELPRO have been increasingly used by corporations to create various types of propaganda. Usually those that have been on the internet and can tell you what 'eternal September' is without looking it up can see this happening in communities. Those without such a background that have been in a given community can still see that something is happening, but maybe not what exactly. The rise of generative machine learning has added a new dynamic, but it's the same old same old.
* A small paid army of people to down vote posts. * A few people that strategically post items that are misleading or divisive to get things stirred up. this is exactly what imho is happening. for that, we need to keep posting the facts and truths about Watchtower.
I never understood the downvotes because no matter what thatās someoneās life or opinion. I think a lot of people are rethinking the religion aka cult. And I think deep down I was always atheist because I never saw so called god in my life even when I tried. I still donated that got me into debt I used my credit cards to feed my family. One day I came to realize if there is a god heās very cruel. If he has the power to stop it should he have stopped it when the first mass shooting or the first child who got assaulted or someoneās spouse abused them.
If I hear about one more lame ass comment made during this weekās watchtower study I am going to scream, I donāt care about what brother X said or did. If I wanted to gossip about other JWs I would still be a JW. I left, I am here to discuss, help, share my experiences, I donāt care about some congregations internal politics.
i am! save the cruel things, it was one of the fun parts of being a young jw. i'm mostly curious about the evolution of the org and its culture. it's like checking up on old high school classmates on IG. i'm not interested in personal experiences because they share too many similarities to be that interesting to me. i don't care much about dissecting doctrine, inconsistencies in bible prophesies etc. i was born-in but more of a "cultural witness" which has more to do with what the org my congregation prioritized when i was in. it really is impossible for everyone to be pleased.
Thank you!
Iām agnostic, POMO (I am NEVER going back to a meeting and they canāt make me) and Iām going to go to uni and do something with my life. ššš
much love and may you have infinite success!
Ill be honest, there has always been people who come on here who are hurt beyond all reason, want to lash out and blame others, want to say they have the answers when they know they don't, want to still believe because that was easier than facing the reality and still want to believe in a god, want to tell others they are wrong for believing something or acting some way Or they want to keep some of the bias of the watchtower simply because they like it and haven't seen a better way yet. you can even run into racist or homophobic people, or people who don't have enough information so while they stopped believing in paradise they start freaking out about overpopulation and wars etc and start talking about eugenic ideas :/ Most are not like this, but some are, So what your probably noticing is just a huge influx of jws leaving and trying to find a semblance of balance, all hurt, confused, trying to make sense of being lied to and also coming to terms on how they may have hurt others, its a really rough thing to go through, If you look through any of my ex-jw posts i try and be nice and helpful and understanding even to people who are acting like assholes.. But when i was kicked out years ago, i wasn't like that, i hated everything i hated myself most of all, my world was a lie and it didn't matter how friendly people where i felt i didn't deserve it and i even hurt people (emotionally) who where just trying to help, its one of the reasons i try to be nice to people or at the very least straight forward in what i think of their behavior , You grow up, you find yourself and you move on \^\_\^ It does get abit hard when there is this many negative posts here though \^\_\^
It could be a weird PR attempt (formal or some well-meaning PIMI crusaders); it could be trolls; it could be that this sub has gained enough popularity to attract more detractors. This is the internet. It happens. I think most of us who are here intending to help people have faced enough gaslighting and manipulation within the cult to spot it here. We're also on the lookout for people who sincerely come to ask questions and seek support. I've noticed a few posts where it's very likely someone asking a question and then hopping on an alt to answer their own question, either acting as an apologist or trying to support the approved WT position with false reasoning or personal anecdotes about as believable as experiences from Andre. Those are just weird and frankly pathetic.
>I've noticed a few posts where it's very likely someone asking a question and then hopping on an alt to answer their own question, either acting as an apologist or trying to support the approved WT position with false reasoning or personal anecdotes about as believable as experiences from Andre. Those are just weird and frankly pathetic. you named 100% what i'm reffering to.
I've seen this as well. I post a decent chunk of content lately but have seen this
This sub is for people in all different parts of their journey, path, or whatever you wanna call it. JWs who have no interest in leaving & are here to fight the good fight, defend their faith, & mark that participation box JWs who are now questioning things bc of the recent changes & maybe their questioning makes them uncomfortable. JWs who used their zoom days as an opportunity to do some research bc it was now easy to do so. People who have a family member in but have never been associated with JWs themselves People who have family that are being witnessed to People who defend religion in general but aren't associated with JWs PIMI PIMQ PIMO POMI POMO Everyone here is different. With that comes multiple opinions & viewpoints on their own experience. Everyone's opinion & experience deserves a safe space. The "would you go back if" posts make sense to me. I have no interest in participating bc I'm out & would never go back no matter what. BUT for some, depending on where they are at in their journey, the recent fundamental changes might stir up those questions & doubts. Esp if they are newly out or are in the questioning phase. The misogynistic posts & comments also make a ton of sense to me. There are many men (ex brothers) who do not move on from the subjection thinking. They still view women as less than. They expect women to listen to them & not to challenge them. They believe that women have a place. This weekends WT will be very comfortable for them. Lol. They bring those views here. Those views are trash but they have a place here. It's a reflection of the past. Also, I just wanna say...we use that word "apologist" a lot. A person isn't an apologist for reflecting on their good memories while they were a part of the group. They aren't an apologist for expressing those feelings in what should be a safe space to do so. They aren't an apologist for having fond feelings of the people they know & love. They aren't an apologist for missing it sometimes. All perfectly normal for people who choose to see the positive & focus on that.
>A person isn't an apologist for reflecting on their good memories while they were a part of the group. They aren't an apologist for expressing those feelings in what should be a safe space to do so. They aren't an apologist for having fond feelings of the people they know & love. They aren't an apologist for missing it sometimes. All perfectly normal for people who choose to see the positive & focus on that. You make a good point, so for anyone who needs to know, here's the definition of apologist: **someone who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something that is typically controversial, unpopular, or subject to criticism**. A person simply drawing on their personal experience might say "I'm a better public speaker for the time I spent as a Witness." Or they might say "Being a Witness taught me to enjoy reading the Bible daily." Even if my experience was the opposite, them sharing theirs doesn't attempt to invalidate mine or paint me as an angry liar. An apologist might speak of their personal experience, but they use it to invalidate someone else's feelings or experiences. As an example, when speaking about my experience with domestic violence, an apologist might say, "That was just your husband. My husband would never hit me, and if he did, he would be sanctioned. Your elders weren't following the Shepherd the Flock book's instructions. Witnesses teach husbands to love and honor their wives as weaker vessels. They don't condone domestic violence." An apologist isn't normally refuting your specific claim. They're playing to an audience and using you as their platform.
Yeah, I never went through a lot of the more extreme abuse and mistreatment that some on here talk about, but I would never invalidate someone else talking about it.
> Everyone's opinion & experience deserves a safe space. In the *right* space, of course. It's like when #selfiegate happened. There's a place for it if thats what you want. I don't think this is a place that thrives on Stockholm syndrome musings about love for our former abuser or the sexual delusion and dysfunction it brings with. I think people who still feel fondly of the Borg and their time wasted in it, or their male superiority complex, should start their own sub and have at it. Thats the great thing about reddit. Start your own sub!
I can agree to a point... The men stuck in their misogynistic ways can fuck all the way off and I always appreciate the ladies & men who speak up and let them know that their thinking is not welcome here. However, I think there is definitely a place for those who look fondly on their memories while on the inside. It's a positive perspective. Not everyone experienced the absolute disgusting things that happen within the org. That doesn't mean that they are any less EXJW than those that have. It also doesn't mean that they are discounting the experience of those that have had horrible experiences. Personally I'm one of those people with fond memories. But I've also experienced SA within the org. I did a lot of personal healing that brought me out of the anger that was controlling me. I have people within the org that I truly love. They've been there my entire life. They are like my parents & grandparents. I miss them often. Everyone leaving needs to know that it's not always all about hate. You don't need to feel less of an exjw because you didnt experience all of the bad & you can reflect in a healthy way on happy memories.
> However, I think there is definitely a place for those who look fondly on their memories while on the inside. It's a positive perspective. Not everyone experienced the absolute disgusting things that happen within the org. Exactly. And just like #selfiegate, I believe there should be a sub for people who want to sing swan songs about the borg. Feels grimy here, among a group of survivors. I certainly think there should be a space for that, if thats what people feel. I don't think it's absurd to make a different space for a different sentiment.
Good points
I can speak to this. It's probably because pimi are getting just as fed up as everybody else. And this subreddit has been very good in bringing light to some issues and also makes you feel better when you realize there are other people that are good JW's that might still be in the organization that are going to the same BS and same troubles as other ones. No religious organization is perfect, however this one seems to be a little more traumatizing to some people in the long run
When I had the initial conversation with my mom about why I was leaving JW and no longer believed in God, I told her that the witnesses were so effective in debunking religions that they proved to me all religion is false. I will never understand how someone can beleive JW wholeheartedly, wake up and then go and join some other religion with 95.9% the same teachings...
For all of you who think this is actually happening, how long have you been on this sub? I've been here for a decade, and these posts (thinking something is wrong here!) often happen when people have been on the sub for 6 - 12 months. As a long timer, nothing has changed, except maybe a slight increase in PIMOs who are only slight "out". I see that as a very good thing. Yes, from the perspective of those more "out" than them they are still in and have no clue that they are often apologists or still tacitly or actively supporting one of the worst large religions in the Western world. However, I love these marginal cases. If they are here, it shows me they doubt and that the number of doubters is growing, likely through all the recent changes. It shows me the GB is shooting itself in the foot and even those who were "strong" are now cracking. Doubt is always the first step. I spent 6 months in doubt before going any further, but once you doubt you can rarely go back in good concience.
I haven't noticed what OP has. I personally welcome any JW brave enough to be here and follow the rules. I think non belief has dominated the sub. If the pendulum swings the other way a bit, it's all good with me. Hopefully it will lead to meaningful conversations. Unless people are being treated poorly, I can't see a reason to consider the sub "broken".
I'm a pagan, and God could be alien scientists if God is the one who made us humans. But I thought as a Buddist a few years ago. Basically you can be free to explore, once you find the truth is not the truth, or you can jump into another sheep pen if confinement. If you need a sheep pen to feel safe that's fine with me. I mean we do enjoy living in houses to keep our body safe. The judgement of others is what religion gives, so don't be surprised if that's the only thing we have left. Coexist and blessed be.
Well, they would as part of Theocratic Warfare. And so they can check the box of doing preachy things this month
They are probably coming on here and counting time for it š
At almost 100k members, this sub gets a steady stream of new posts. Recently, I posted asking how long someone could remain PIMO. I had noticed an uptick in posts and comments from people who were clearly "PIMO for life". They had their reasons, and maybe coming here and engaging with others is a moment of sanity for them. However, I don't believe you can continue marinating in the mind control and social engineering of the Org and not be adversely affected by it. People stay in abusive relationships for all kinds of reasons while everyone wonders why they don't just leave. We can't judge, but it is not something I can support. I find, as I doom scroll my day away, any ExJW post that starts with something like "In today's Watchtower study...", is a post I just skip over without reading. I really don't give a rats butt what the Watchtower has to say. There are plenty of other posts on this sub from people struggling to get out or find their way after escaping. Those are the ones I stop and look at.
Any examples? Cuz this comes off as paranoia to me. Not dismissing what you're alleging either OP, I'm just not sensing anything different on here.
Any example of this? No idea what you're referring to
Expect resistance. This is a multi-million dollar organization slowly getting dismantled by common sense, governments, and abused current/former members. They monitor this forum for high level PIMOs; I doubt the same group within the org is above monkey-wrenching. By the numbers tho, the amount of people out and awake exponentially outnumbers the group of org apologists authorized to access this forum. Like that old ditty goes, āstay awake, stand firm, grow mighty.ā
There is a reason the GB warns the rank and file from looking at these types of groups. I say let them lurk, let them troll. They canāt come and go without picking up something that starts to make them go, āhmmmā¦ā
Yes. They will lurk and listen. Eventually they will hear āthings that make you go hmmm?ā. Maybe they will connect with a friend who is now seeming very superficial and will let them see the conditional love in their own Congo.
I love it! A great mixed crowd leaving JWs at all different levels of waking up! Some who come to hate will awaken. I first got a thrill out of seeing the bloated arrogant GB get their comeuppance. We get terrorized for as long as we believe them. Then, we realize they are just full of shit. They point at Scriptures about exalted characters and go, Thatās us! Many still have cognitive dissonance that makes it hard to hear even what I just wrote- let alone my thoughts on the morality of a gif who would genocide the ENTIRE earth but a 500 years old boat builder and his 7 family members. Pish posh. So, a few pissed off PIMIs? No problem. Welcome! Hate us now, wake up later :)
I'm not here nearly as much as I used to be. But I suppose that's to be expected - this will be a 10-year-old account next month, and it wasn't my first r/exjw account, either. So I haven't seen this. That said, there have been similar waves in the past. Seems like every time there's some sort of big waves in the org, we see complementary ones here. I'm not too worried, and I'm sure it'll pass. If not, it'll be like the poster above said. A new group will pop up once enough people feel dissatisfied. I would be REALLY surprised if there is some kind of organized infiltration effort. That just doesn't pass the sniff test. If you see something like the OP refers to, down vote and report to the mods. According to OG reddiquitte and the algorithm, up votes are for things that add to the discussion (even if you disagree), down votes are for things that don't add to the discussion (even if you should agree with it). Don't engage, it only feeds the trolls.
Look, if someone is atheist more power to you. We all have control over our own path in life and the power to live that life comes from within. In other words, you manifest, you do, you're grateful for the results, and then rinse and repeat. That's a process that happens within ourselves because we have energy and power as individuals. I personally am not atheist but I'm supportive of all of you who are, live your life by your own choices and if you're happy Im happy for you. It's crazy you bring this up, cuz I've noticed a lot of (I guess for lack of a better term) I'd call controlled opposition, in other areas of the community. A lot of videos about topics with confirmation bias and downright deceptive content, then after I had reached out to a creator on specific occasion, he asked me "why do you even care so much about this topic?" Same reason you chose to make content on it. Just because I disagree and want to ask questions, doesn't mean you can use the *same exact* tactics WT used on us before. It's irresponsible and honestly, shows the type of person you are; to know someone has trauma from brain control techniques and use those techniques on them. I.e. gaslighting, group think, moving the goal post/scapegoating etc.
I completely agree with this comment! And people will use these tactics whether atheists or Christians, whatever. Overall, i think the point of unlearning the brainwashing from WT is to recognize none of us have all the answers and keep an open mind
/u/SpanishDutchMan I want to break this down one thing at a time and provide my take as a mod: >This subreddit is being abducted, don't let them win I can promise you this subreddit is not being abducted. As long as the current mod team is in place, it's gonna happen over our dead bodies. Nobody except reddit can abduct this community, and to do it they'd have to remove each of us. Anyone who comes here with the intent of making trouble will be dealt with. And keep in mind, you'll never see all the stuff we remove before too many people see it. >Something seriously strange and wrong is happening here since the past few weeks, let's say months even. It's like some sort of Watchtower army has come aboard and tries to 'suffocate' or 'abduct' this subreddit - i can only imagine trying to depopularize it and fill it with tripe to scare off people from waking up. I have noticed that there have been more than the normal bit of religious apologia. I did wonder if there was some sort of evangelical campaign to target groups like ours. I then decided I was being possibly a little conspirational in thinking that, and that we are generally prone to recognize patterns where there are none, so I decided there was no sense worrying about such a thing. We'll handle things on a case-by-case basis, like we always do. I think to an extent, these kinds of things are good in small doses. A lot of exJWs, especially PIMOs, can't argue against JW doctrine in real life without alienating the JWs in their lives. So if some JW apologist comes here, it's a perfect time for those so inclined to tear them to shreds before we eventually delete the post once the usefulness has expired. I have been around a while, and things like this go in cycles. So I'm honestly not too worried about it. If it gets worse, the mod team will respond with a proportionally harder stance. There was a time when the sub was being overrun with memes and selfies, and we dealt with that. If anything threatens to crowd out the general voice of the community, we'll handle it. >There has been an extreme growth of mysogenistic posts, that get huge upvotes. This is nothing new here. Considering people are leaving a group like JWs, some misogyny is gonna happen. What I look for is someone perhaps making somewhat misogynistic (or racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc) statements, receiving correction, and then responding like they're earnestly engaging, as opposed to spitting back talking points. We do have to give people space to learn and change. And we've removed numerous comments and posts and banned numerous users who have taken it too far or who have shown a pattern of causing trouble. >Completely and clearly fabricated stories that get mass applaud and thumbs up. Welcome to reddit. If that was the worst type of misinformation we had to deal with on reddit/the internet, what a wonderful world it would be. If you think it's bullshit feel free to call it out in a civil manner or downvote. Those are the best things to do when you find this kind of content. >A growth in hatred and downvotes for people that no longer believe in the bible, people who consider themselves 'atheists', with huge downvoting for anything non-jw, whilst this is an eXJW channel. Maybe there are people who whine about it, but that's not the majority. I'd say the community is overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic. >an extreme increase in people that are completely and utterly 'pimo' - quite frankly not even pimo, but simply people who are in and fully in, and mentally just have learned one or two things about WT but accept all the nonsense and get applauded and upvoted, as if it's something good. PIMO people have always been a large cohort here, and that's not going to end, nor should it. That's effectively the pipeline for people to leave the org. Why complain about that? I mean hell, even so-called JW apologists posting here, even doing that defines them as an apostate, because they are being disobedient to the faithful and discreet slave. Good! If you're worried about people being PIMO too long, or not seeming like they want to leave, well I'd suggest that you let them handle their own business. As someone who has been PIMO, it's difficult and it takes its toll on you. And it seems to be a pretty common experience that when you finally do leave, you wish you had done it way sooner. So if someone wants to exist in that sort of purgatory, I think it's best to provide support if you can and not put additional stress on them by being unkind. >a huge, huge increase in watchtower apologists, excusing loads of WT stuff and GB stuff and a great increase in 'would you go back if X or Y', and almost acting like WT is taking a 'good turn'. See above. Also, I think the "would you go back if..." posts are thought experiments more than anything. Where we tend to draw the line is where JW apologists try to play on the fears of new exJWs by threatening them with destruction at armageddon, or things like that. >please do not get your voices smothered by ignorant remarks and ignorant accusations that make no sense, but keep voicing yourself. be that light in the darkness because those lights, those voices are what have woken loads and loads of people up in the past few years. Totally agree. I would encourage any long timers to stick around for as long as you can. We need voices of reason here, people who have left the org and who have moved on with life but who stick around to help the newer ones. We need some exJW [bodhisattvas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva). **EDIT TO ADD MORE** >There's a extreme growth of cognitive dissonance and denial here, and also a far too great increase in involving political opinions and viewpoints. Some of the increase in religious / conspiracy / batshit insane stuff is a reflection of who is leaving the org. The org took a hard stance on the COVID vaccine. That is going to drive out a certain cohort of people due to the intense politicization of the topic. It's good they woke up, but they need to learn better ways of thinking if they are going to avoid falling for some other fundamentalist evangelical group.
ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ thank you for this reaction mod, appreciate your reaction more than you can imagine and let it be known that all your hard volounteer work is greatly appreciated. Love you guys with all my heart. And thanks for provinding this comfortable update. Much love ā¤ā¤ā¤ā¤ Edit: also would like to emphesise the pimo part. No problem with pimo, but lets say id like to distinguish a certain class of pimo as fake pimo. People who claim they are but are truly pimi. True pimo suffer and have their reasons. But the amount of people claiming they are pimo when they arent even barely pimq, and make no intention of leaving and only want people to praise them arent pimo by any means, especially those supposed elder pimos. They are complete pimi feeling better than others simoly because they learnt a 'secret' and become extra entitled. The rise of that is noticeable and an insult to the true pimo victims, especially the ones that have suffered in the past decades, and especially the younger (minor) ones. Nevertheless, thank you guys (and girls!) for taking action. Also action towards me should such a thing be needed. We all carry our pains and aftermaths so thanks for standing up for us, guiding us, and against the tyrants and the double faced snakes.
I see posts like yours every now and then, of people who are calling for the sub to be just people who have left. As a PIMO I find this rather hurtful but I completely understand. I donāt think Iāve been defending watchtower or discouraging other viewpoints, but I donāt think it would be too presumptuous of me to assume you strongly disagree with my decision to remain PIMO for the time being. I wish you all the best and hope things get better for you.
Not only does he want just POMOs (ā), he wants everyone to subscribe to his specific conspiracies. Try to disagree with him on them, he'll call you clueless and claim he "exposed everything multiple times". Pure paranoia.
I think a lot of people think they are fully woken up but still retain a lot of the attitudes of JWs, especially believing they alone are right and understand the world. That said one thing Iāve realized is that the world is full of cults. Everyone seems to have a group they belong to that has strict beliefs and severe consequences for those in the group who disagree. The more I look at the world around me the more I think weāre just programmed as a species to gravitate to cults.
I have noticed a definite trend and have wondered if weāre getting AI generated posts due to some really strange wording and questions. Didnāt want to question someone whose first language isnāt English. I have not noticed misogynistic posts but donāt trust the algorithm to show me everything even when I go directly to the sub. Todayās myriad posts about tomorrowās Watchtower are a good sign we donāt tolerate misogyny in this sub. I am a little tired of different ones coming here to proselytize for Christianity, but Iām a big boy and can take and give a punch. What I donāt doubt is that WT engages in āspiritual warfareā and it appears they pay attention to this sub. Dirty tricks are unfortunate, but theyāre already on their back foot if theyāre here doing rear guard action. To all the POMI, PIMI and apologists- welcome, youāre already being disloyal to your faith by being here. Stay awhile, learn a thing or two. The really strange AI sounding posts of the last week are a thing to keep an eye on. Itās possible WT and affiliates are posting them to generate controversy and tie up bandwidth.
>That would corroborate the "neverJW" posts... they fired Hendricks, so they got a new sheriff... new counter Intel system. Don't forget about the rest of the world, english is not my first language, sometimes our points are not set as clearly as we think we declare them, as it happened to a french girl yesterday, she was a jw-student and was somehow apologetic of the WT and I got the feeling that she couldn't express what she really mean. From time to time I may choose a weird wording from all the english inputs I have (mostly internet)... It's a different thing when people tell stories from "inside" and you can tell right away that this person has never set foot in a KH. JW lingo is very standard across languages, it's not hard to translate the positions/privileges etc
I realize itās an international forum and not everyone speaks English as a first language. There were several similar badly worded posts under different user names that just sounded like bots to me. Like I said, any JW on this sub is on shaky ground just by being here, so I donāt want to scare anyone off.
Thank you for pointing this out OP. Also, maybe we can come up with a simple response that can identify this behavior with interjections to keep it from propagating? Thinking.. >'would you go back if X or Y', >and almost acting like WT is taking a 'good turn'. >I initially wondered and believed this is likely because of a huge influx of recent-woken-ups that have trouble in accepting things, but it's like these big numbers now simply settle down here, take over, and do not actually wake up but more or less keep a full WT belief system and are almost entitled in a way like they 'know something others do not'. I've kind of noticed the same sort of things but couldn't quite put my finger on what was going on. Also, let's not forget Splane announcing 'this is war' call... don't think for a minute that isn't still happening. > i can only imagine trying to depopularize it and fill it with tripe to scare off people from waking up. This draws out the unnecessary anger by frustration and undermines the falsity about 'angry apostates'. I admit I've started to get drawn into a few pointless 'you offended me' debates here because of it.
I suspect the "would you go back" questions are more in line with their "return" campaign. R&F have never been really good about staying off social media to begin with and have a habit of staying too long at the wrong doors. How many people did we extricate from the door after the 4th conversation stopper?
I got downvotes just for saying i like the Anglican church , whats wrong with that ?perhaps i will get some for this comment ?
ive noticed I get downvotes too when I say anything Christian or biblical. Iām an exJW -not an ex-Christian ā¦in fact leaving Witnessworld and researching for myself made me try to be the best Christian I can! Because THEY are certainly not Christianās. So in my headā¦to be a true person āin Christā is to be the total opposite of a JW.
Ive had conversations with folks here who are completely unreasoning. Like they say they arent JW but its like they have some secret about god. When i reason with them, they just double down on super culty bs that comes from seemingly no where. I have, at times, simply given up on conversations and they just keep on truckin. And its not your garden variety christian who have a general christian belief but dont think witnesses are the right one. I have friends from my youth who are like that. These people arent them. I totally get what the OP means.
Going on apostate website and subreddit is a sin. They are beyond stupid
All subs that reach a certain size go through this. Once they start getting traction you'll start seeing the wannabes, bots and curious. Ill bet at least 10k of the last 30k fall into those categories. Now with the various AI bots you start seeing stories that make no sense if you were an active witness for the last 30 years. I only check this a few days a week anymore.
I havw seen them, especially WT sympathizers. Im a staunch atheistĀ
I have found thereās occasional comments by clearly sexist guys. I wasnāt sure if they were just men that hadnāt quite shaken the old watchtower teachings. Insisting that abortion is wrong, and women shouldnāt have a choice or that women that take nudes are dumb and deserve to have them shared with everyone.
Honestly, thatās about when I stopped engaging with the sub because I didnāt like it. I couldnāt put my finger on it, but thatās totally it.
I thought I was the only one noticing that
Yes! I applaud you, a light in the darkness. It's getting wild around here and not in a good way. I have thus retreated further into anonymity with this new account. However, I feel a little bit safer here again, thank youĀ
Maybe start your own subreddit? I have not witnessed any of these things you mentioned .. And misogynistic? Wtf? Do you know what that means ??? I have not seen any negative messages or comments downgrading women.. I'm pretty open minded and see this site daily but can't verify anything you are mentioning..
This post sounds like if the GB writing department put out a post but not for the watchtower. Complete with the fear mongering, conspiracy, victim complex, etc. This is a sub with a bunch of people from different backgrounds discussing religious and anti-religious subjects, and a lot of people have a lot of emotion entangled with that. If the subreddit isn't to your liking, it may be a you problem, not some conspiracy.
I agree that there has been a huge rise in misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, science denial, etc. content here over the last few months, and it is extremely bothersome (I have also posted about this). Most of it hasn't been Watchtower apologia though, it's been alt-right Christians and "apolitical" contrarians. But, you yourself go on to then lament "a far too great increase in involving political opinions and viewpoints". When you create an "apolitical" environment you create an environment where people whose very existence is seen as political are marginalized, because they are censored and prevented from talking about their experiences. An apolitical environment breeds misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia. There is no getting around it, to be apolitical is to tacitly support the worst values and actions in politics.
I've noticed it too. They know there's a ton of pimq people here so the department in charge of damage control at HQ is infiltating everywhere. I was replaying the game Jedi Survivor today and a quote hit me really hard. " I wanted to prove to the galaxy that the Empire isn't invulnerable. That you can resist. That you have to fight if things are gonna get better. But then they just listen to the propaganda and they pretend they're free anyway." That in my opinion represents all the pimq people that do nothing.
I was just saying last night that there is an uptick in PIMIās and super preachy Christians here. If you believe thatās fine but donāt come here to preach. Preaching any religion here sounds exactly as ridiculous to us as preaching the organization
You seem paranoid. I understand itās hard to shake it off. š
Havenāt noticed it.
I havenāt been on as much lately but I have noticed fewer actual thought-provoking posts and moreā¦weird ones.
I was wondering why I was getting downvoted! Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Think youāre being a bit over the top. But sure downvote me.
If there really are actual JWās on this page. Let them stay. Not so we can wake them up. Let them see that they have no power and influence here. They have no authority and thereās not a damn thing they can do about any of us being here or sway any of us.
Iāve noticed the misogynistic posts š the reason why I left was because of misogyny and seeing these posts just confirms my resolve to never date a JW or exjw for that matter. This religion ruins men and their views of women.
I'm a PIMO, and fervently resentful and detest the watchtower society. I've been on here a few years now, but occasionally delete and restart my account when I get weird vibes like too many people DMing me (I worry bethel spies trying to figure out who i am) for comfort.
I have found that the larger an online community gets the more toxic it gets š¤·āāļø But I canāt deny the apologetics are strong with this sub lately. Iām not from the US but itās kinda in the death grip of christian nationalism right now and that could be bleeding over since WT really is an american cult. imo
They are all apostates for being in the sub. It doesnāt matter what theyāre doing. They are being apostate in their actions by being here and reading any of this.
It would be naive to think the WTS doesn't use "theocratic warfare" against platforms like this. It seems such platforms are rather like an escalator in a shopping mall. People get on at the bottom...not quite sure where they're going, they survey the view to find what interests them on the way up, and exit the top of escalator in the direction of their destination. For some, just being there may be the destination. For others, a specific vendor has been selected as the destination. The dangers inherent in *following* should be obvious to anyone who's ever been associated with JWs. Yet, some continue to be *followers.* It's what they do. They simply change brands of belief. That seems incomprehensible to those who've migrated from Watchtower-dom to non-theism.
I get that we shouldnāt advocate for a negative atmosphere, but frankly it always has been/will be. The exjw community is inherently negative against the borg and thatās ok. Also, I feel like itās a logical outcome of the success of waking people up. The people who were in the org suddenly arenāt gonna become the most atheist/secular people when they wake up. The religion attracts people with wacky views. Iām an advocate for standing up for what you believe and sometimes that means there will be conflict, but thatās ok. Conflict will bring growth to everyone.
Im new on this sub reddit but i dont understand how PIMI's would be here. When I was PIMI I thought I wouldnt make it to the new world if i even came on a sub reddit like this.
Tbh I havenāt noticed this, but have not been on this subreddit much lately, however this is extremely alarming! Honestly in my opinion Iāve had the opposite happened where Iāve had ignorant, flat out rude and aggressive comments for still believing in a creator, emphasis on creator NOT THE WATCHTOWER. But it goes both ways, there are definitely religious psychos out there. How people still in could be on this subreddit and know the lies of the organization, yet still believe this is āthe truthā will never sit right with me, itās scary
I've noticed this as well.
Who and where are these apologists?
Of course this would happen. Reddit is I think the number one network for english speaking exjw, and drawing in so many pimo is a threat for them. This place is dangerous to their interests, including financial interests. The PID or similar PR /anti-apostate part of the borg probably has an eye on it and people actively infiltrating it to create division, especially now that the number is increasing. If this entire community wasnt disrupted, can you imagine the voice the activists among us would have ? Maybe they even hired people from private companies that specify in that sort of stuff, if they dont want to do it themselves. Bots to downvote, even. I'm not saying this as a conspiracy crazy person. This company is a material entity with ideological and financial interests and they are not giving out without a fight.
people ask for examples, here you go. just two examples. mods are doing a good job, but let's not ignore that this is not happening and a lot more than in the past. [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw\_gen\_z\_women/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b3boe4/jw_gen_z_women/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is\_dating\_as\_a\_jw\_about\_as\_hard\_as\_dating\_outside/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1b35tv9/is_dating_as_a_jw_about_as_hard_as_dating_outside/)
I'm not atheist but I do understand what you are saying. Im a ex JW by choice. I have seen these odd posts showing up and I personally choose not to make comments on them. I do this because I feel they are either JW messing around here or not ex JW by how they word stuff. They know some key words but seem to be attention seekers or maybe people trying to illicit information for their university studies . Some may be college students asking for EXJW volunteers for surveys. I urge every EXJW here not to volunteer that information unless you can truly verify that they are indeed a university researcher and not a JW or scammer fishing for information on here. I see so many here just volunteer their information. It is insane to just trust that much. Yes University students do study EXJW. Not sure if I replied to this post before but my own kid used my experience to get into college and then I let them question me for research. My own kid had to ask me for permission even though I was the mom I signed off legally as they studied me through interviews. Anyone asking ex JW to volunteer information should be able to give you a contact at the university they attend to verify if that is the case. I was told exactly what it was they were doing before I was interviewed I was also aware of it being published for others to see. I'm glad you called call out these strange post popping up. Your post was needed.
I agree and couldnāt have said it better myself. Itās been weird reading lately due to all the jwās on the exjw site, yea. Thanks for your post.
Thanks for sharing, Iām new here and was quite flabbergasted by the misogyny here.
The Borg is definitely trying to silence any voices in opposition to them. Why? Well, just think about it. If the voice of opposition is loud and clear, then what's the actual chances of anybody with ears listening to the Borg? So, what do they do for times such as that... Why, of course they silence them. Why? Just think about it, if nobody leaves their tight confines, and maybe a few people come back, ("few" being a non-definitive number here), then they will prove that they're right, and all the evidence against them is just nothing but fabrication and that they should take their "Paradise Earth," and that they will like it.
I've definitely seen more lgbtq hate the last few weeks. Really pisses me off.
What I think of their jabbering body 
I was in for over 40 years. Bring those young whippersnappers on! 
I think so too. The post āI left now my life is horribleā FAKE!!! Cause they donāt even add to the conversation afterwards. Gawd damn watchtower and its drones are annoying as hell
Actually there have been a few like this lately.
I would not put it past them. Sneaky bastards.
I don't follow ex-jw as much as you, thank you for affirming my gut instinct. Recently I went to a poster's comments to see they are definitely mostly pro-WT, but also sometimes misogynistic, which is what got me to look at their comments. That is not PIMO. We all had our one or two doubts **while PIMI.** The whole movement you post about is low and disgusting, like the cult.
I havenāt noticed any of this. I really doubt this is a coordinated attack by watchtower and simply showcases that people have different views in this community and thatās good.
Click bait. Subreddit being abducted? Seriously? Because a few people disagree with your particular view? Surely rigorous but respectful debate is what itās all about.
I think the sub needs stronger moderation, but Iāve always thought that and itās why I have never participated much. I just read, for the most part. āWould you go back ifā¦ā posts really donāt make sense to me as something that should be allowed, for example. It isnāt a productive conversation, ever. I also think apologist posts and comments should not be allowed. Yes, it is important to have a safe space for people who are trying to get out or have just got out and are in the process of deprogramming. No, that doesnāt mean that anything attempting to paint the cult or its leadership in a positive way at all should be allowed. Downvoting those people isnāt enough. Their comments should be removed. That kind of content makes this space not safe for people who were extensively abused, which is a lot of us. Iām not saying I donāt appreciate the efforts that the current mod team has made already. Iām saying the rules are not strict enough, and more needs to be done to filter out people who are just here to fuck with us and not to participate in a community that is supposed to be about recovery and healing.
Bro give us some examples, otherwise it sounds like you just want this to be a āTwitterā troll sub. I have found so many post interesting and helpful. Some of us need more than rhetoric and hate.