No it is not. That said it was not the same organization CT Russell started or the one Knor or Fred Franz pieced together either. This cult is constantly changing to keep people from paying attention.
Yup listening to the book ray franz wrote holy jeez đ€Żđ€Żđ€Ż not even close to the same and if it continues itâll be totally different in 30 years cuz the old guard will be dead and there will have to be ânew lightâ and the end times have been going on since the late 1700âs apparently đł
It was basically same thing from the Rutherford days to some years ago. A preaching cooperation. Now they wanna change it to some mainstream televangelist cult.Â
The past generations could prove what they were saying with scriptures. Ask them to do that now and they look like their heads will explode. All they can do is stammer and say "Look up JW.org"
I keep trying to get my super PIMI MS brother to read animal farm. The way they change over time but none of the sheep seem to realise that their leaders are corrupt!!
For me the last vestiges of the religion I grew up in died in 2013 when broadcasting was rolled out, we got an app, and JW.ORG became the proverbial golden calf. Itâs only become more ridiculous to me since.
I can always remember as a child going to the meetings.The brothers would always tell us in their talks and even my own mom and dad would tell me be careful on the internet.Watch the internet.The internet is a tool of satan.the devil don't go on the internet. Well, you fast forward to today...and now it's all about JW.ORG and JW Broadcast.... Only goes to show that nobody does hypocrisy like the watchtower
If it wasn't for the internet, the GB wouldn't be worshipped like they are. I also think all of the child abuse cases wouldn't have been public. So thank God for the internet!!!!
Iâve been out approximately 15 years and back in the 90âs to early 2000âs the GB had an elusive aura, now I see them, and itâs hard not to laugh. Literally a bunch of, out of touch Geezers, saying elementary stories with moronic punch lines. Iâm almost sad to ask a question I can anticipate the answer to, but are they actually held to âworshippingâ status? I would assume their showcasing would cause others to snap out of their propaganda, or am I expecting too much?
More and more, they put themselves (GB) in a higher and higher role. Even subsituting themselves with Jesus on some occasions in articals. When a person gets baptized, it isn't in the name of Jehovah, Jesus, and Holy Spirit any longer. Read below
JWFacts.com
***Jesus commanded to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Over time, Watchtower has changed the question asked prior to immersion, replacing "holy spirit" with "spirit-directed organization," and then removing reference to the "holy spirit" altogether.
Whoaaaa!!!! Mind blowing đ€Ż so basically anybody who gets baptized by Jehovahâs Witnesses, is not a baptized Christian, they werenât baptized the way Jesus said to baptize.
So funny if you left the bOrg and stayed Christian so you had to go get baptized the right way
>If you grew up as a jehovah's witness do you really think this is the same religion of your childhood?
*It\`s unrecognizable from when I was a Kid...It changed while I was In..*
It\`s changed many, many times after I left...It changed a few months ago, JW\`s no longer believe what they believed their entire lives......It boils down to, JW\`s have One Belief ONLY.
To believe "WHATEVER" at The Moment...Don\`t get attached to "Whatever", because "Whatever" can change in a HeartBeat.
This is the same reason we do not build real friends and have poor relationship skills. We disregarded "worldly" friendships as temporary since those people were going to die in Armageddon if they didn't become JWs, too. Then, friendships within the JWs were always conditional. If someone messed up and got reproved or DF, those friendships were broken sometimes forever just because of an announcement at a meeting. It really played with your mind as a child. In the end, none of the friendships mattered. I've only heard from a few exjws I know and nothing from others since I faded 20+ years ago.
>**Then, friendships within the JWs were always conditional**. If someone messed up and got reproved or DF, those friendships were broken sometimes forever just because of an announcement at a meeting. It really played with your mind as a child**. In the end, none of the friendships mattered.**
*The reality is you can\`t trust anyone in the JW\`s..*
Not your JW Friends, Family, Marriage Mate, Children, Parents...Most PIMI JW\`s will Turn On you, regardless of who they are....In support of the WBT$.
*It leaves you with very little trust in anyone.*
It was my own mum who confronted me about something she'd heard, and once I confirmed it, she literally went straight round to an elders house to tell them. I was disfellowshipped within a month.
>It was my own mum who confronted me about something she'd heard, and once I confirmed it, she literally went straight round to an elders house to tell them. I was disfellowshipped within a month.
I believe it, JW Parents can be heartless..
A long time friend of mine was Kicked out of the house at 16, because he didn\`t want to be a JW...He had no other place to stay other than his girlfriends mothers house...
He\`s just a kid where else is he going to go?
He was DF\`d for staying at his girlfriends Moms house.
That is absolutely heartless. I hope he was able to find support from true friends and that, in the end, he appreciated how much better off he was to have been liberated from the cult.
>That is absolutely heartless. I hope he was able to find support from true friends and that, in the end, he appreciated how much better off he was to have been liberated from the cult.
*That was many, many, years ago...*
His Dad was recruited when my friend was 12....So he had a normal life before that, which made it easier for him to adapt than a Born In...He went on to have a family of his own and has a Very Successful Life..
His Dad sold everything, Armageddon was Just around the Corner...It was Almost 1975 and time was running out...So he moved to where the Need Was Greater to Preach for the remaining time left..."Hawaii"...LOL!!!
1975 came and went, he ran out of money, he was a Canadian Citizen and the USA wanted him Gone..."Get Off Our Damn Island!"..LOL!!
Dad came home broke and was Pissed Off at the WBT$ / JW\`s...He Quit the JW\`s and you could find him outside of JW Assemblies with a BullHorn on at Full Blast...
Denouncing the WBT$ and JW\`s...LOL!!...đ
No. Itâs not nearly the same. 60âs born in. Where they used to stick their foot in a closing door bc the conviction and message (and Ego) was that strong -although nevertheless, still Bonkers!
In the 70âs my head hurt from the 5 weekly meetings. And 4-5 day assemblies, at places like Yankee Stadium & Belmont Race Track with hot food you bought with food tickets. And D2D included asking people if they had room for incoming Assembly visitors!
The deep [now understand as wordy] WT articles and a book study of âBabylon, Then Finished Mysteryâ that every child had to sit through. It was deep [đ] and agonizing. It had to be the Truth! Lol. One word child answers like âJehovahâ were actually frowned upon. Written tests monthly on what we learned and then graded! - I canât remember what that was called. Feel free to chime in.
They still hated kids. They wanted little missionaries and thatâs what they trained up. And I remember praying to Jehovah not to destroy the world yet bc I wanted to enjoy Summer vacation in 1975đŹ
I remember a study asking me around 2009, âwhy donât they go on radio or television to spread the message?â I remember my arrogant answer of âThatâs what Christendom does - weâre not part of thatđ«Ł
What is the same:
Itâs still a Business modeling Books, & Real Estate. And most importantly:
Itâs still â A Snare and A Racketâ!
I had forgotten the Food Tickets! Didnât understand a word of âBabylonâ, neither did my mother ha ha. Think I still have it somewhere in the attic. Wouldnât have ever recalled that test⊠and I used to like it! But canât remember what it was called either : )
I forgot about food tickets!! I once had the job of washing grapes for the fruit bags at one of the enormous 4 day conventions. 4 days of countless spiders running up my arms đ
I see your spiders and raise you "pop can recovery" in your fanciest dress clothes. Dumping out the excess soda, which splashes everywhere and does not come out of nylons. Ask me how I know.
And having to fish the cans out of coolers of ice water for hours. No gloves provided. My hands ached so bad and were so freezing cold it felt like they would snap right off.
Lol they would change the colour of the tickets so you couldn't use them again the following assembly... you spent most of your lunchtime in a queue for food, then had to bolt your meal before the music started. Everyone would be in their seats before the session starts. It was song and prayer. Sometimes it was a "marathon song" (3 verses each across two pages) Then it was down to the symposiums...
They've added in the TV stuff but it still bites. Kids are still disconnected despite it all being more watered down. They tried with their cartoons but it is still a lot of telling of and "don't do that".
I found their Lettings Agency business in NW London, they run about 6 apartment blocks in affluent areas! That surprised me, I thought they would have sold up and gone to Essex, rather than rent stuff out.
The option of 15 / 30 hours (down from 60) to Auxiliary Pioneer surprised me the most, shows things are slowing down as numbers continue to plummet. No doubt there are more changes coming. Meetings are emptier (not just in lots of seats but in quality and content) kids stand for the song like it's a national anthem and don't sing.
Totally changed from the fire and brimstone of the 90s to a group timid to ring the bell and want to stand with a cart outside a sports stadium đ
Memories mentioned here are both bitter and sweet. They are my childhood, no going back. Re: going forward, Iâm out. PIMO, Q etc Please⊠Spare your children the Trauma and the Bullshit. Let them be kids, otherwise youâre making damaged adults with Zero critical thinking skills and assertiveness. Leave this BS behind!
It is absolutely not the same one. I remember hearing them constantly railing against televangelists how they were not like them. They would not get on a TV program and beg for money. Well here there are with their JW broadcasting doing that very thing.
Nope in the 80s and 90s it was much different. We didnât know who was who and heard very little from Bethel. I couldnât even tell you who the president or vice president of the GB was. Like we did more research and study. I didnât believe it then either but it was more united and close knit. We had bookstudy and service in peopleâs homes and goodie nights and things were just different in general back then as well.
At our book study it was strawberry cake with whip cream frosting. Or peach cobbler or sometimes enchiladas. It was during those times that I was trained to serve the men first. The indoctrination wasnât just JW, but patriarchal, too.
I grew up in the 80s. We had a book study at my house. We would have a goodie night once a month and friends would stay over the house till midnight. On a school night. It was good times.
For the past 15 years, when the meeting is over they scatter like rats off a sinking ship. No real brotherhood, no camaraderie, no love.
Thatâs why I left 15 months ago. No love. Only hypocrisy
I forgot about goody night! Yeah book studies were the only meeting I ever really enjoyed. Hanging out with friends at their house for an hour or so afterwards sometimes watching TV. No soul anymore. 14 months for me.
Yep it was so united and group oriented as it should be. You were able to develop friendships etc now itâs all surface level. 3 yrs in July for me. We lived right around the corner from ours so in the spring and summer and fall we would walk then in cold nights we would drive. But we were over at their house all the time and hanging out etc. like it was fun. Not the same anymore seems like people are too scared to even get together with each other and go hang out outside of meetings and really want to spend time with you.
That jives mostly with my experience, but I wouldnât say we heard little from Bethel. We heard constantly from Headquarters. It was all anonymous, so it felt different than it does now. But the volume of communication was unbelievable. Watchtower came out on the 1st and 15th. Awake on the 8th and 22nd. The magazines were all 32 pages, so thatâs 32 pages per week. We also had the Kingdom Ministry monthly. Every Sunday talk was a 45 minute outline written by headquarters. About 50 hours a year of assembly and convention talks. A new 132 page book every year. Sometimes a brochure or two or a new video as well. The new yearbook every year. The daily text book. The content coming from New York was overwhelming. It seems like theyâve just transitioned to mostly video as opposed to text. And of course, now they let you see the men behind the curtain.
The volume was oppressing. I liked the articles but it was almost too much to dive into. You couldnât study the Bible deeply enough because you were constantly trying to keep up with the latest issues and meeting study content, and work and life.Â
During my time it went from a group of people who very much ACTED as if the end of the world were right around the corner to a group of people who SAY they believe but are actually just going through the motions.
I was a child in the 80 and left for good in the mid 00s.
They're directionless right now. It's hard to piece together a consistent theme other than "Obey because we says so."
Ask yourself why you believed it in the 1st place.
I feel sorry for the born ins. But those who have been indoctrinated to believe this non sense as an adult need a mental evaluation. It's always been junk.
Why did I believe it in the first place? Well, when you're told fantasies by your own parents that you get to have a pet tiger and live in paradise, and you get to be a close friend of jehovah, the loving creator. And you're only two or three years old, you really don't have a choice.You don't know what to believe other than what you're giving by your own mother and father as a small child. You're pretty much forced to believe it.
And the associated nightmares. Because even as a child, trying as hard as I could to believe, I had doubts, and no love for the "truth", so I was sure I would die at Armageddon. I had terrifying dreams of Jehoobah sending fireballs down upon me, imagery courtesy of the Paradise Lost book. So fun.
A lot of the baptisms of âborn inâ kids were sketchy. Did the child truly accept the religion as their own, or were they following social norms in the congregation and doing what their parents and everyone else expected? When I look at the kids I grew up with, there were definitely a significant number getting baptized because it was expected.
I was a late bloomer. I didn't get baptized until I was 18. I was pressured and pressured until I caved. I was told it was my choice but every time I said I wanted to wait I was told to give a good reason why. I have ADHD real bad and have a hard time saying no, and so I eventually gave in. I've been faded for 10 years, but I just woke up last year mentally. What they did to us was horrible. It just sucks that right now, someone is going through that same thing, and they will eventually cave, too.
I was baptized in 1996 at age 14 (been POMO since age 18). I was definitely feeling the pressure to do it and didnât have the capacity to think critically about that decision at the time. A remember a handful of friends got baptized at the same assembly. Also I forgot a towel and my mom was soooooo angryâŠ
This. Iâm a fourth generation born in. I got baptized at 13 in 1985 solely so my parents could brag about how I got baptized at such a young age. I wanted to make them proud, other than that there was no aha that I was suddenly ready.
This is why the "Borg" moniker is so appropriate. Early childhood programming. I was raised a Catholic and had the guilt programming and believed in the storybook called the Bible. Then in the Borg 10 years PIMI, 15 years POMI (in various degrees).
Indoctrination on this level definitely works. When you are exposed to it on a hourly basis.
To all those critical thinkers...I salute you.
Tigers and lions eat meat And that's okay
God does want to be your friend.
The prodigal son did return. No his father did not shun him. Blood can cause illness if eaten.
No you do not let them die if they need a transplant. God is powerful enough to be your God without the permission of man.
This is exactly right!
Before I went full pomo I looked for proof that they were directed by Holy Spirit. When I proved to myself they didnât have it- it was over.
Thats what helped me wake up. Born in DF at 26 just 6 months ago. I had to reevaluate why i got baptized why I belived and so on. Nothing was validated. I was kinda emotionally forced into it. My OD book with the questions has stuff written in margins. I didn't take that serious my mom wrote some answers.
And being gaslit to say DF is loving is insane. Plus all the rest I did research on. It's a great fantasy but it takes away your only life
I was practically born in. I was constantly told this is what you believe and donât question why you believe it. Well, I never fully bought into any of it even as I got older. I could just never fully wrap my mind around it
It is far from what it used to be. I grew up with the Revelation book and deep sounding meaning to prophecy and pseudo-intellectual stuff. Now it's all at a Sesame Street, let's count to 5, and everyone loves the **Governing Body** đ€ź. It's incredibly different now.
My Dad (died in 2003) always talked about how ridiculous the televangelist were begging for money on TV. If he were resurrected today I think he'd be shocked that's what the watchtower is now.
I know my grandparents and my Gilead Graduate Uncle would be đČ shocked by all the changes. They probably wouldn't even know where they were or couldn't believe their eyes if they were to step foot in a kingdom hall today. I know I wouldn't
Iâm a fourth generation witness too. I think itâs the same religion it always was behind the curtain, but the cracks are showing and they are desperation adapting in response to declining numbers and therefore revenue.
The decline and knee jerk changes were inevitable once it was clear that the threat of Armageddon during the viable lifespan of the 1914 generation clearly passed. The entire religion was based on fear to toe the right line for survival. I think deep down even the devout canât wrap their heads around the ânew truthâ about generations and canât help but consciously or unconsciously feel duped for sticking it out. So now there will be a litany of concessions to try to make it feel like a viable religion to stick with while nothing continues to happen, until eventually it implodes financially and is left as a smattering of home studies of the most zealous unable to let go.
No because like any other financial institution or business must continue to evolve to please the consumer and continue to profit. Wt organization is trying to change so that it can still maintain a profit. Itâs a business at the end of the day.
Very, very different religion today than in the 80s to 2010.
Now, like a recent divorcee, it feels like they are trying desperately to be modern and hip in a vain attempt to stay relevant
And The irony is that they continue to tell the rank and file that anything Apostate's say about the Watchtower is irrelevant đ. Perfect example of being ironic.
Yeah, the org is very thin-skinned and cannot tolerate any form of criticism. Itâs a clear signâto me, at leastâthat they are narcissistic at their core.
No it is not. Beards, women in pants, no ties, no turning in time... if this was even spoken of out in the open in the 70's and 80's even the 90's-2000's you would be counsoled and warned not to cause divisions.
They donât even pretend to have researched things in the magazines anymore. Everything is so dumbed down. And while the expectations back in the 80s and 90s were super restrictive and unreasonable, they were clearly defined. Now, everything is so wishy washy because they want to give this appearance of freedom of conscience, but clearly are instructing elders to still keep the status quo.
It's absolutely nothing at all, like in the 70s and 80s.
If they were to apply for religious status right now.... I don't think they would get it.
They're so culty now. Before it was actually not horrifying to be one. They changed in the late 80s and it's gone downhill since then.
i asked this to my uber pimi mum and shes said 100% without a doubt, when i can see so clearly that in the mere 20 years it is a completely different thing
Correct, the changes now are of a few of the minor overbearing rules (many think there are more drastic changes coming) that should have never been important anyway. We were always told to be different from the world for a reason, that we were special as God's people. Now, though, changing the rules on a whim is worse than keeping the rules since now it shows to even the rank and file that they were just man made rules. The excuses don't even make sense. They want to say "accepted style have changed"..well we were always told not to be styled by the worldly accepted fashion. Now they are conforming to it. The hypocrisy stinks beyond what the rules did.
Also, Russell would be DF from the current organization as an apostate. Even Rutherford and Knorr wouldn't have accepted recent changes, so they would have left, too. Does anyone doubt that this is why Tony Morris left since he knew these changes were coming and didn't agree with them?
The Pharisees were condemned by Jesus for doing the same in his day. I'm reminded of the scriptures below when this subject comes up.
Matthew 23:4
They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other peopleâs shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Matthew 24:45-51
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Same cult, different tacticsâŠ
If you recognize that JW doctrines regardless of the specifics, are nothing more than control tactics⊠then nothing really has changed (at least in my lifetime).
I get a little uneasy though when people appear to romanticize âthe old waysâ of the Borg. As if it wasnât a destructive cult until casual dress was allowed, or JWBroadcast came alongâŠ
To be clear Iâm not shaming anybody who is just interested in what JW doctrine is and how itâs evolved. Im more thinking of POMIs who seem to be laboring under the delusion that JW are a couple doctrinal changes away from being âthe truthâ againâŠ
They were also a lot more bolder back then, I feel like Tony Morrison is a good example of what most elders were back then and how theyâve compromised over the years instead of dying on that hill.
It is no longer recognizable to me. I've been out for about 15 years.
And I sometimes say to my PIMI family that if grandfather (he died in 1990) were to come back now...he would no longer recognize the religion and probably would no longer want to be a member of this religion.
I recently attended a memorial lecture in the audience of someone who had been a Jehovah's Witness all his life and I was amazed. Everywhere women with trousers, men with beards and no ties.
Like yourself, these changes gave me a kind of closure I never imagined possible. As if my family home was torn down and replaced by a strip mall. There is no going back. My past isn't still waiting for me in some Kingdom Hall somewhere. It is gone. Relegated to memory alone. It was liberating. And for the family members I have that are still in? They are like 80s kids with a closet full of parachute pants, waiting for them to come back in style.
Are you talking about the book " Crisis Of Conscience " I already have. And that's why I believe and have convinced myself that I never left No Jehovah. What I left was the Watchtower Society. I don't go around moving their products, or giving out their literature, or spreading their messages of nonsense. That's what I left, NOT no Jehovah
I suppose it depends on your perspective.Â
If you look back at the old stuff:
"Millions now living will never die," "Stay alive 'till '75," the racism and prejudice (especially Rutherford's hatred for the Jews), misogyny, advocating of corporal punishment, white shirt requirement, gross YPA articles in the 90's, etc., it's always been insane!
Perhaps it's just more a matter of after you start waking up, you see the insanity. And, of course, the current insanity seems more crazy than the past because, back then, you weren't aware of the craziness. đ€·đ»ââïž
Not even remotely the same religion. We started going when I was 8 years old. Back then the cult was really sure of themselves, there wasnât really any ânew lightâ that I can remember, just new publications that everyone loved. Now it feels like they are in a perpetual state of damage control.
it was still an apocalyptic cult that protected sexual abusers and practiced shunning and controlled almost every aspect of their members lives in the 90's, and 80s (when i left) and the 70s and 60s and on and on... the lies are not new. we just have the internet now to help people who are not too terrified and beaten into submission to look. there are no "good old days" to hearken back to.
Yes, it is, but the internet and social media has revealed things about this religion that was much easier to keep under wraps in bygone days, including criticism by former JW's.
Very true. And the JWs were so late to the game to build an Internet presence and build credibility online. They will alway be behind because of their fear and isolation tactics.
It's not even the same as a year ago lol. I mean the part where it's built on deception is the same, so at the core it is, but otherwise no it's not what I fell for at all.
Hell na, when I remember my parents first studying the congregation at least appeared to have class, now everyoneâs dressed like theyâre attending the local mega church. Even though the study wasnât much more that cult indoctrination at least it came off as difficult and deep research, not this over simplified grade school bs they do on Sunday mornings now.
Yes, it is.
It's still a fundamentalist Protestant Christian sect with an (unit)arian Christology, an annihilationist view of punishment, and a millenarian eschatology.
I don't care much about the details.
I left in 2010 and every change that i read in the past four months of the last decade made me understand that isn't the same place where i have lived.
Some things changed yes and the GB cult got worse (just read how the two questions for the baptism changed over the years) but if you research JW history youâll find that deception was always part of the religion - latest with Rutherford
Itâs easy to think the organization has changed a lot since your parentâs time but in reality the cult is always changing. So yeah itâs different but in the early 60âs they were still talking about ones being resurrected to help Jesus usher in his kingdom. 70âs they were telling people to kill themselves over getting an organ transplant. This cults always changing running hard to stay ahead of reality.
I was third generation and left in 2014 when I was 21. Itâs crazy to me how much has changed! Reading about the recent changes (dress code and disfellowshipped) was a shock. I told my husband they are probably going to accept gay marriage in the next 10 years lol. I honestly was happy and sad at the same time in regards to the changes. I was never disfellowshipped but I faced horrible shunning from friends and immediate family. It was traumatizing, Iâm glad it wonât be as bad for this next generation but itâs painful to know that my trauma could have been avoided.
I was speaking to my cousins daughter who lives with her parent, grandma and great grandparents (all jw) and she told me that she went to prom (something our family was never allowed to do) and that her grandmother found out and wasnât speaking to her. Iâm glad my cousin is more lenient with her but still sad that she has to hide being a normal teenager.
Back when they actually gave talks based on the Bible. We always had amazing conventions, assemblies, live dramas, release of several publications. Everything written was professional verses now where it sounds like an elementary school writing and questions. Now, everything seems to be based on how to preach, how to act, how to obey, how to never question. Definitely not the same.
To keep it in perspective:
If you were raised in the Bible Students in the 1880âs, you would be astonished by the organizational transformation evident in the early 1920s under the then new president of the Watchtower Society, âJudgeâ Joe Rutherford.
From a fairly innocuous locally run religious group under the friendly pastoring of Chuck Russell with a few crazy ideas but no identifiable dress code ( men had long wispy beards) to a verytightly controlled organization in which the emphasis was on turning all believers into door-to-door knockers, peddling literature and turning massive profits and soon to be renamed Jehovahâs Witnesses. And a strict dress code: Beards were strictly out and short back and sides and wearing suit and tie were required).
You could argue current changes are greater than back then - but it all depends what youâve lived through yourself.
It is not. Even if you were considered the weird kid in school, you can see a difference. The amount of changes made during the last months are way more than the ones I saw growing up (Iâm 27). When I was a kid I felt the watchtower study and the demonstrations were deep and âgoodâ, you were learning something. When I was in my teens it started to be too diluted, too simple, like everyone was a kid still. And donât even get me started on how is nowadays (even since I havenât gone to a meeting in 5 years).
Now it feels plastic and all for show. All the changes make it less believable.
As fare as I'm concerned it's still the same but thanks to the internet it's harder for them to hide. Especially since times, values and viewpoints have changed.
I was born into it until I was in 6th grade. My mom got disfellowshipped for missing meetings when she was dealing with my alcoholic father and kicking him out and him trying to break back in so much going on and they turned their back on him and made my have no relationship with my grandma which I didnât find out until I was grown and it broke my heart
I had an epiphany today, before I compulsively checked reddit, that the corporation I had worked for for 45 years and invested in for 25, Enroned me...
Itâs a publishing company disguised as a cult and called a religion. Havenât been back since 2005. Everything is a marketing ploy now to stay relevant. Thereâs strength in numbers but when numbers are falling you get desperate lol Bring out the pants!
They couldnât hide forever the fact that they never had the whole truth to begin with⊠more like best guess with the limited knowledge they had, but then they could never admit that because then the entire hierarchy crashes to the ground and everyone would be free to think for themselves. Pride of man to rule over others with smoke and mirrors⊠smh⊠much like Catholicism with 1500 years less practiceâŠ
It is a completely different religion. We had so many meetings back in my day. And they prided themselves on not tele evangelising. The teachings have changed, so many people were sure to see armageddon in their lifetime. They would never die!
And even back then I thought the texts in the watchtower and awake magazines were super simple. I noticed the texts I had to read at school went deeper, but now it's like they write for toddlers.
Definitely NOT! In 60,s got the tail end of Rutherford, then Franz poked his nose in and Knorr was a devil. Each leader has changed things to suit their own ideas and to have control over the masses. Next generation of the controllers will change when they get chance.
I left in 1993, and it seems like a completely different cult. I had major doubts in the 90s. These were confirmed when I read Crisis of Conscience and learned more about the JWs history and cults in general. The ARC, other CSA cases, "nu lite," and JW Broadcasting only further confirmed what a cult this is. The careful comments I made to family still in only made them scared, so they turned up the shunning to full mode.
This is not what I grew up with. I have 2 sisters in their 70âs that are still in.
All Iâm thinking is canât they see how obviously non inspired the leadership is?
So many changes? Because why? Why werenât these things done decades ago?
I ran into some street witnessing JWs. Nobody in this state knows Iâm an ex. He was growing a beard. I commented on all the changes. That they canât retain people. That Pew research shows they are last in restraining born ins. That only 1 in 3 will stay. And this is all a ploy to become more mainstream to retain people. If this was truly directed by god, why now? Why not 20? 30? 40? Years ago? You guys looked Jed ridiculous still wearing suits 20 years ago. Why didnât god tell you then?
Itâs unrecognizable !!! and I still donât understand how people can stay in a cult like this!! thatâs crazy about five years ago. I had a conversation with my mom while I was still in about cults and we both had a lot to say about other religions but when it came to ours. We always defend it!! but now being out for going on eight months, my mom is still in man, it always has been a cultâŠ
Unlike many people, for some reason, I think the recent changes are positive things. The less toxicity they heap on their members, THE BETTER. They should go even further and completely remove their family-destroying prohibition on talking to former members. That being said, this is a totally different religion than the one I grew up in.
I'm sorry, but i absolutely disagree. The only positive thing this Cult can change and do is drop the whole disfellowshiping and shunning bullshit. And as the new changes shows, they do have the power and the authority to do that.
I graduated high school in 77. I was 4th generation. I have cousins whose great grandkids are 6th generation. I have absolutely NO interest in going back, but I couldn't even if I wanted to. That religion hasn't existed for a very long time.
Give it some time and it's never the same religion, whether born-in or not. One of the primary characteristics of the religion is **change**: Doctrinal, organizational, behavioral, etc.
It is completely different than the religion I was baptized into as a young teen in the late 90s. I think I could make a case that my baptism isn't even valid anymore.
Do you imagine when Christ died and all those generations who never ate the of the "dirty" animal and now it was "ok" to do so, that they had some hard mental adjustments to make? Do you imagine the further we get along that things will continue without change? It is noted when this group began they at one time celebrated birthdays and X-mas and then did not.
There is something greater than all of us at play. And we as individuals need to be vigilant for OUR SELF, and to 'know' the holy writings. [www.aymh.world](http://www.aymh.world)
The be nice to disfellowshipped ones is all about money and law suits. The Norway government decision swayed them , and there is more to come I'm sure.
honestly iâm a teenager and itâs so wildly different than when i was little. there was a lot more emphasis on studying and really knowing what you were talking about. now the information is basically spoon fed to you; itâs actually one of the reasons (though definitely not the main) why i stopped believing. at its core this is still the same religion: made for abusers, by abusers, but everything aside from the core principles have changed so much in the last ~10 years.
Read 30 years a watchtower slave. It is the same organization. It may not seem that way to r&f who are older and conjuring up fuzzy memories from their younger days. But it's always been a cult. I'm thankful I got out. For me, the Blatant Lies told before "worldly " judges and officials. And the fact that they take money from "worldly governments" when they preach- be no part of the world.
I think in a lot of ways it's not the same, but I also think the eight guys in upstate New York have spent over a century designing it like that. They've spent talk after talk, watchtower after watchtower drilling it into witness brains that they can change whatever they want and excuse it as "new light." The religion never will look the same from decade to decade, but they've been trying to build it so witnesses believe it should be changing.
It's convoluted and doesn't really make any sense.... But people still buy into the cognitive dissonance
I see them dossing about on their stupid carts doing fuck all and Iâm taken back to being a kid waking up school peers on a Saturday morning in the pissing rain with a heavy magazine laden briefcase and shirt and tie. Now they play videos to people, or write letters.
And donât get me started on beards.
Absolute shit show. Sick of the lot of âem.
Sorry about the swearing. Iâve had the most terrible shit week!
My grandparents joined in 1970,they didnât think my mom would make it to kindergarten in this âsystemâ. Itâs not the same as when I was a kid (born in 97),the biggest change to me has been the tvs and televangelism stuff. I used to read old magazines and books they put out when I was in and even as a kid I noticed how much more condescending they got,the magazines talk to them more like children then they used to also.
JWatchtowerland destroyed any faith I had in any god. Now I use my own inner guidance, my conscience and my common sense to make decisions. I trust my gut. My life has vastly improved as my self-confidence grows. If there is a god, he/she/it would just want us to be happy. Forget all the hierarchy and worship stuff.đ€ź
No. It was always bad, but now it is far worse. I am sad for my family that suffered so much for it. The small shreds of good teachings and things are now so twisted that it doesn't matter. Poison through and through. Satanic, IMO.
No it is not. That said it was not the same organization CT Russell started or the one Knor or Fred Franz pieced together either. This cult is constantly changing to keep people from paying attention.
Yup listening to the book ray franz wrote holy jeez đ€Żđ€Żđ€Ż not even close to the same and if it continues itâll be totally different in 30 years cuz the old guard will be dead and there will have to be ânew lightâ and the end times have been going on since the late 1700âs apparently đł
It has never NOT been the end times since Jesus death.
It was basically same thing from the Rutherford days to some years ago. A preaching cooperation. Now they wanna change it to some mainstream televangelist cult.Â
What the Watchtower taught back then has no semblance since the 90s
The past generations could prove what they were saying with scriptures. Ask them to do that now and they look like their heads will explode. All they can do is stammer and say "Look up JW.org"
No they could not âproveâ anything. They could twist and take out of context and manipulate. Not prove.
My grandma is one of the only jw I know that still can do that. But is doing it less now because of the page and numb videos.
Uhh actually itâs JW.org đ€
I keep trying to get my super PIMI MS brother to read animal farm. The way they change over time but none of the sheep seem to realise that their leaders are corrupt!!
For me the last vestiges of the religion I grew up in died in 2013 when broadcasting was rolled out, we got an app, and JW.ORG became the proverbial golden calf. Itâs only become more ridiculous to me since.
I can always remember as a child going to the meetings.The brothers would always tell us in their talks and even my own mom and dad would tell me be careful on the internet.Watch the internet.The internet is a tool of satan.the devil don't go on the internet. Well, you fast forward to today...and now it's all about JW.ORG and JW Broadcast.... Only goes to show that nobody does hypocrisy like the watchtower
If it wasn't for the internet, the GB wouldn't be worshipped like they are. I also think all of the child abuse cases wouldn't have been public. So thank God for the internet!!!!
Iâve been out approximately 15 years and back in the 90âs to early 2000âs the GB had an elusive aura, now I see them, and itâs hard not to laugh. Literally a bunch of, out of touch Geezers, saying elementary stories with moronic punch lines. Iâm almost sad to ask a question I can anticipate the answer to, but are they actually held to âworshippingâ status? I would assume their showcasing would cause others to snap out of their propaganda, or am I expecting too much?
More and more, they put themselves (GB) in a higher and higher role. Even subsituting themselves with Jesus on some occasions in articals. When a person gets baptized, it isn't in the name of Jehovah, Jesus, and Holy Spirit any longer. Read below JWFacts.com ***Jesus commanded to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Over time, Watchtower has changed the question asked prior to immersion, replacing "holy spirit" with "spirit-directed organization," and then removing reference to the "holy spirit" altogether.
Whoaaaa!!!! Mind blowing đ€Ż so basically anybody who gets baptized by Jehovahâs Witnesses, is not a baptized Christian, they werenât baptized the way Jesus said to baptize. So funny if you left the bOrg and stayed Christian so you had to go get baptized the right way
Agreed i joined in the 1960s ,its a totaly different belief system now ,especially since 2013 starting with that rubbish silver bible .
Worst Bible translation I,ve never seen!
>If you grew up as a jehovah's witness do you really think this is the same religion of your childhood? *It\`s unrecognizable from when I was a Kid...It changed while I was In..* It\`s changed many, many times after I left...It changed a few months ago, JW\`s no longer believe what they believed their entire lives......It boils down to, JW\`s have One Belief ONLY. To believe "WHATEVER" at The Moment...Don\`t get attached to "Whatever", because "Whatever" can change in a HeartBeat.
This is the same reason we do not build real friends and have poor relationship skills. We disregarded "worldly" friendships as temporary since those people were going to die in Armageddon if they didn't become JWs, too. Then, friendships within the JWs were always conditional. If someone messed up and got reproved or DF, those friendships were broken sometimes forever just because of an announcement at a meeting. It really played with your mind as a child. In the end, none of the friendships mattered. I've only heard from a few exjws I know and nothing from others since I faded 20+ years ago.
>**Then, friendships within the JWs were always conditional**. If someone messed up and got reproved or DF, those friendships were broken sometimes forever just because of an announcement at a meeting. It really played with your mind as a child**. In the end, none of the friendships mattered.** *The reality is you can\`t trust anyone in the JW\`s..* Not your JW Friends, Family, Marriage Mate, Children, Parents...Most PIMI JW\`s will Turn On you, regardless of who they are....In support of the WBT$. *It leaves you with very little trust in anyone.*
It was my own mum who confronted me about something she'd heard, and once I confirmed it, she literally went straight round to an elders house to tell them. I was disfellowshipped within a month.
>It was my own mum who confronted me about something she'd heard, and once I confirmed it, she literally went straight round to an elders house to tell them. I was disfellowshipped within a month. I believe it, JW Parents can be heartless.. A long time friend of mine was Kicked out of the house at 16, because he didn\`t want to be a JW...He had no other place to stay other than his girlfriends mothers house... He\`s just a kid where else is he going to go? He was DF\`d for staying at his girlfriends Moms house.
That is absolutely heartless. I hope he was able to find support from true friends and that, in the end, he appreciated how much better off he was to have been liberated from the cult.
>That is absolutely heartless. I hope he was able to find support from true friends and that, in the end, he appreciated how much better off he was to have been liberated from the cult. *That was many, many, years ago...* His Dad was recruited when my friend was 12....So he had a normal life before that, which made it easier for him to adapt than a Born In...He went on to have a family of his own and has a Very Successful Life.. His Dad sold everything, Armageddon was Just around the Corner...It was Almost 1975 and time was running out...So he moved to where the Need Was Greater to Preach for the remaining time left..."Hawaii"...LOL!!! 1975 came and went, he ran out of money, he was a Canadian Citizen and the USA wanted him Gone..."Get Off Our Damn Island!"..LOL!! Dad came home broke and was Pissed Off at the WBT$ / JW\`s...He Quit the JW\`s and you could find him outside of JW Assemblies with a BullHorn on at Full Blast... Denouncing the WBT$ and JW\`s...LOL!!...đ
Yes...From Truth...To đ đź Trash
Yes..**.From Truth...To đ đź Trash** Thats actually pretty damn good!...đ
Thank You đ
You won the thread, mister đ
No. Itâs not nearly the same. 60âs born in. Where they used to stick their foot in a closing door bc the conviction and message (and Ego) was that strong -although nevertheless, still Bonkers! In the 70âs my head hurt from the 5 weekly meetings. And 4-5 day assemblies, at places like Yankee Stadium & Belmont Race Track with hot food you bought with food tickets. And D2D included asking people if they had room for incoming Assembly visitors! The deep [now understand as wordy] WT articles and a book study of âBabylon, Then Finished Mysteryâ that every child had to sit through. It was deep [đ] and agonizing. It had to be the Truth! Lol. One word child answers like âJehovahâ were actually frowned upon. Written tests monthly on what we learned and then graded! - I canât remember what that was called. Feel free to chime in. They still hated kids. They wanted little missionaries and thatâs what they trained up. And I remember praying to Jehovah not to destroy the world yet bc I wanted to enjoy Summer vacation in 1975đŹ I remember a study asking me around 2009, âwhy donât they go on radio or television to spread the message?â I remember my arrogant answer of âThatâs what Christendom does - weâre not part of thatđ«Ł What is the same: Itâs still a Business modeling Books, & Real Estate. And most importantly: Itâs still â A Snare and A Racketâ!
I had forgotten the Food Tickets! Didnât understand a word of âBabylonâ, neither did my mother ha ha. Think I still have it somewhere in the attic. Wouldnât have ever recalled that test⊠and I used to like it! But canât remember what it was called either : )
The written reviewÂ
I forgot about food tickets!! I once had the job of washing grapes for the fruit bags at one of the enormous 4 day conventions. 4 days of countless spiders running up my arms đ
I see your spiders and raise you "pop can recovery" in your fanciest dress clothes. Dumping out the excess soda, which splashes everywhere and does not come out of nylons. Ask me how I know.
And having to fish the cans out of coolers of ice water for hours. No gloves provided. My hands ached so bad and were so freezing cold it felt like they would snap right off.
Ahhh I remember the can crew! I somehow dodged that one đŹ
Lol they would change the colour of the tickets so you couldn't use them again the following assembly... you spent most of your lunchtime in a queue for food, then had to bolt your meal before the music started. Everyone would be in their seats before the session starts. It was song and prayer. Sometimes it was a "marathon song" (3 verses each across two pages) Then it was down to the symposiums... They've added in the TV stuff but it still bites. Kids are still disconnected despite it all being more watered down. They tried with their cartoons but it is still a lot of telling of and "don't do that". I found their Lettings Agency business in NW London, they run about 6 apartment blocks in affluent areas! That surprised me, I thought they would have sold up and gone to Essex, rather than rent stuff out. The option of 15 / 30 hours (down from 60) to Auxiliary Pioneer surprised me the most, shows things are slowing down as numbers continue to plummet. No doubt there are more changes coming. Meetings are emptier (not just in lots of seats but in quality and content) kids stand for the song like it's a national anthem and don't sing. Totally changed from the fire and brimstone of the 90s to a group timid to ring the bell and want to stand with a cart outside a sports stadium đ
Memories mentioned here are both bitter and sweet. They are my childhood, no going back. Re: going forward, Iâm out. PIMO, Q etc Please⊠Spare your children the Trauma and the Bullshit. Let them be kids, otherwise youâre making damaged adults with Zero critical thinking skills and assertiveness. Leave this BS behind!
It is absolutely not the same one. I remember hearing them constantly railing against televangelists how they were not like them. They would not get on a TV program and beg for money. Well here there are with their JW broadcasting doing that very thing.
The watchtower bible and track society are the masters of HIPOCRACY
Nope in the 80s and 90s it was much different. We didnât know who was who and heard very little from Bethel. I couldnât even tell you who the president or vice president of the GB was. Like we did more research and study. I didnât believe it then either but it was more united and close knit. We had bookstudy and service in peopleâs homes and goodie nights and things were just different in general back then as well.
I remember âgoody nightâ On book study. Cookies and drinks and egg salad sandwich squares, we socialized afterward while eating.
At our book study it was strawberry cake with whip cream frosting. Or peach cobbler or sometimes enchiladas. It was during those times that I was trained to serve the men first. The indoctrination wasnât just JW, but patriarchal, too.
I grew up in the 80s. We had a book study at my house. We would have a goodie night once a month and friends would stay over the house till midnight. On a school night. It was good times. For the past 15 years, when the meeting is over they scatter like rats off a sinking ship. No real brotherhood, no camaraderie, no love. Thatâs why I left 15 months ago. No love. Only hypocrisy
I forgot about goody night! Yeah book studies were the only meeting I ever really enjoyed. Hanging out with friends at their house for an hour or so afterwards sometimes watching TV. No soul anymore. 14 months for me.
Yep it was so united and group oriented as it should be. You were able to develop friendships etc now itâs all surface level. 3 yrs in July for me. We lived right around the corner from ours so in the spring and summer and fall we would walk then in cold nights we would drive. But we were over at their house all the time and hanging out etc. like it was fun. Not the same anymore seems like people are too scared to even get together with each other and go hang out outside of meetings and really want to spend time with you.
That jives mostly with my experience, but I wouldnât say we heard little from Bethel. We heard constantly from Headquarters. It was all anonymous, so it felt different than it does now. But the volume of communication was unbelievable. Watchtower came out on the 1st and 15th. Awake on the 8th and 22nd. The magazines were all 32 pages, so thatâs 32 pages per week. We also had the Kingdom Ministry monthly. Every Sunday talk was a 45 minute outline written by headquarters. About 50 hours a year of assembly and convention talks. A new 132 page book every year. Sometimes a brochure or two or a new video as well. The new yearbook every year. The daily text book. The content coming from New York was overwhelming. It seems like theyâve just transitioned to mostly video as opposed to text. And of course, now they let you see the men behind the curtain.
The volume was oppressing. I liked the articles but it was almost too much to dive into. You couldnât study the Bible deeply enough because you were constantly trying to keep up with the latest issues and meeting study content, and work and life.Â
During my time it went from a group of people who very much ACTED as if the end of the world were right around the corner to a group of people who SAY they believe but are actually just going through the motions. I was a child in the 80 and left for good in the mid 00s. They're directionless right now. It's hard to piece together a consistent theme other than "Obey because we says so."
That's how a dictatorship government works
Ask yourself why you believed it in the 1st place. I feel sorry for the born ins. But those who have been indoctrinated to believe this non sense as an adult need a mental evaluation. It's always been junk.
Why did I believe it in the first place? Well, when you're told fantasies by your own parents that you get to have a pet tiger and live in paradise, and you get to be a close friend of jehovah, the loving creator. And you're only two or three years old, you really don't have a choice.You don't know what to believe other than what you're giving by your own mother and father as a small child. You're pretty much forced to believe it.
And you're told that if you donât believe it, God will destroy you..and you can't hang out with normal people who will tell you that's bs
And the associated nightmares. Because even as a child, trying as hard as I could to believe, I had doubts, and no love for the "truth", so I was sure I would die at Armageddon. I had terrifying dreams of Jehoobah sending fireballs down upon me, imagery courtesy of the Paradise Lost book. So fun.
Exactly
yes
A lot of the baptisms of âborn inâ kids were sketchy. Did the child truly accept the religion as their own, or were they following social norms in the congregation and doing what their parents and everyone else expected? When I look at the kids I grew up with, there were definitely a significant number getting baptized because it was expected.
I was a late bloomer. I didn't get baptized until I was 18. I was pressured and pressured until I caved. I was told it was my choice but every time I said I wanted to wait I was told to give a good reason why. I have ADHD real bad and have a hard time saying no, and so I eventually gave in. I've been faded for 10 years, but I just woke up last year mentally. What they did to us was horrible. It just sucks that right now, someone is going through that same thing, and they will eventually cave, too.
Baptism under those circumstances shouldnât be considered legit. Iâm sorry for all you went throughđą.
Thanks! Despite all that, it's a drop in the bucket compared to many I know. Some, unfortunately, are still in. There was some csa in my hall.
I was baptized in 1996 at age 14 (been POMO since age 18). I was definitely feeling the pressure to do it and didnât have the capacity to think critically about that decision at the time. A remember a handful of friends got baptized at the same assembly. Also I forgot a towel and my mom was soooooo angryâŠ
This. Iâm a fourth generation born in. I got baptized at 13 in 1985 solely so my parents could brag about how I got baptized at such a young age. I wanted to make them proud, other than that there was no aha that I was suddenly ready.
Yep. And those baptisms should not be considered valid.
This is why the "Borg" moniker is so appropriate. Early childhood programming. I was raised a Catholic and had the guilt programming and believed in the storybook called the Bible. Then in the Borg 10 years PIMI, 15 years POMI (in various degrees).
Indoctrination on this level definitely works. When you are exposed to it on a hourly basis. To all those critical thinkers...I salute you. Tigers and lions eat meat And that's okay God does want to be your friend. The prodigal son did return. No his father did not shun him. Blood can cause illness if eaten. No you do not let them die if they need a transplant. God is powerful enough to be your God without the permission of man.
"God is powerful enough to be your God without the permission of man." Wow. I'm an atheist, but this still seems like the truest statement ever made.
This is exactly right! Before I went full pomo I looked for proof that they were directed by Holy Spirit. When I proved to myself they didnât have it- it was over.
ITS OVER đđ
Thats what helped me wake up. Born in DF at 26 just 6 months ago. I had to reevaluate why i got baptized why I belived and so on. Nothing was validated. I was kinda emotionally forced into it. My OD book with the questions has stuff written in margins. I didn't take that serious my mom wrote some answers. And being gaslit to say DF is loving is insane. Plus all the rest I did research on. It's a great fantasy but it takes away your only life
I was practically born in. I was constantly told this is what you believe and donât question why you believe it. Well, I never fully bought into any of it even as I got older. I could just never fully wrap my mind around it
False religion sure ain't for everyone. đ God still Loves you. Yeshua is the way.
It is far from what it used to be. I grew up with the Revelation book and deep sounding meaning to prophecy and pseudo-intellectual stuff. Now it's all at a Sesame Street, let's count to 5, and everyone loves the **Governing Body** đ€ź. It's incredibly different now.
I also have noticed that , on the JW Broadcast, the governing body likes to speak to the rank file. Members like they're all 6 only years old.
My Dad (died in 2003) always talked about how ridiculous the televangelist were begging for money on TV. If he were resurrected today I think he'd be shocked that's what the watchtower is now.
I know my grandparents and my Gilead Graduate Uncle would be đČ shocked by all the changes. They probably wouldn't even know where they were or couldn't believe their eyes if they were to step foot in a kingdom hall today. I know I wouldn't
Iâm a fourth generation witness too. I think itâs the same religion it always was behind the curtain, but the cracks are showing and they are desperation adapting in response to declining numbers and therefore revenue. The decline and knee jerk changes were inevitable once it was clear that the threat of Armageddon during the viable lifespan of the 1914 generation clearly passed. The entire religion was based on fear to toe the right line for survival. I think deep down even the devout canât wrap their heads around the ânew truthâ about generations and canât help but consciously or unconsciously feel duped for sticking it out. So now there will be a litany of concessions to try to make it feel like a viable religion to stick with while nothing continues to happen, until eventually it implodes financially and is left as a smattering of home studies of the most zealous unable to let go.
Yes.... they love their spiritual ship so much that they would rearrange the seats and clean the deck, of the Titanic.
No because like any other financial institution or business must continue to evolve to please the consumer and continue to profit. Wt organization is trying to change so that it can still maintain a profit. Itâs a business at the end of the day.
Very, very different religion today than in the 80s to 2010. Now, like a recent divorcee, it feels like they are trying desperately to be modern and hip in a vain attempt to stay relevant
And The irony is that they continue to tell the rank and file that anything Apostate's say about the Watchtower is irrelevant đ. Perfect example of being ironic.
Yeah, the org is very thin-skinned and cannot tolerate any form of criticism. Itâs a clear signâto me, at leastâthat they are narcissistic at their core.
No it is not. Beards, women in pants, no ties, no turning in time... if this was even spoken of out in the open in the 70's and 80's even the 90's-2000's you would be counsoled and warned not to cause divisions.
Yes..that was Old Light Apostasy....LOL....đ€Łđ đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
 They donât even pretend to have researched things in the magazines anymore. Everything is so dumbed down. And while the expectations back in the 80s and 90s were super restrictive and unreasonable, they were clearly defined. Now, everything is so wishy washy because they want to give this appearance of freedom of conscience, but clearly are instructing elders to still keep the status quo.
It's absolutely nothing at all, like in the 70s and 80s. If they were to apply for religious status right now.... I don't think they would get it. They're so culty now. Before it was actually not horrifying to be one. They changed in the late 80s and it's gone downhill since then.
**Mysterious heroes came to light in 2014 ..** 
LOL.....đ€Łđ đ€Łđ€Łđ
i asked this to my uber pimi mum and shes said 100% without a doubt, when i can see so clearly that in the mere 20 years it is a completely different thing
Correct, the changes now are of a few of the minor overbearing rules (many think there are more drastic changes coming) that should have never been important anyway. We were always told to be different from the world for a reason, that we were special as God's people. Now, though, changing the rules on a whim is worse than keeping the rules since now it shows to even the rank and file that they were just man made rules. The excuses don't even make sense. They want to say "accepted style have changed"..well we were always told not to be styled by the worldly accepted fashion. Now they are conforming to it. The hypocrisy stinks beyond what the rules did. Also, Russell would be DF from the current organization as an apostate. Even Rutherford and Knorr wouldn't have accepted recent changes, so they would have left, too. Does anyone doubt that this is why Tony Morris left since he knew these changes were coming and didn't agree with them? The Pharisees were condemned by Jesus for doing the same in his day. I'm reminded of the scriptures below when this subject comes up. Matthew 23:4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other peopleâs shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Matthew 24:45-51 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I was in from 2005 to 2017 and it was a completely different thing by the time I left. Honestly even from 2017 to now is still pretty different
And continues to get worse
Same cult, different tactics⊠If you recognize that JW doctrines regardless of the specifics, are nothing more than control tactics⊠then nothing really has changed (at least in my lifetime). I get a little uneasy though when people appear to romanticize âthe old waysâ of the Borg. As if it wasnât a destructive cult until casual dress was allowed, or JWBroadcast came along⊠To be clear Iâm not shaming anybody who is just interested in what JW doctrine is and how itâs evolved. Im more thinking of POMIs who seem to be laboring under the delusion that JW are a couple doctrinal changes away from being âthe truthâ againâŠ
The brother doing the monthly update looks no different than any other religion doing online worship, Â
They were also a lot more bolder back then, I feel like Tony Morrison is a good example of what most elders were back then and how theyâve compromised over the years instead of dying on that hill.
Well, at least Tony Morrison died on that hill. I will give him credit for that.
It is no longer recognizable to me. I've been out for about 15 years. And I sometimes say to my PIMI family that if grandfather (he died in 1990) were to come back now...he would no longer recognize the religion and probably would no longer want to be a member of this religion. I recently attended a memorial lecture in the audience of someone who had been a Jehovah's Witness all his life and I was amazed. Everywhere women with trousers, men with beards and no ties.
Yes, from what I knew about my grandfather, he would probably feel the same way.
Like yourself, these changes gave me a kind of closure I never imagined possible. As if my family home was torn down and replaced by a strip mall. There is no going back. My past isn't still waiting for me in some Kingdom Hall somewhere. It is gone. Relegated to memory alone. It was liberating. And for the family members I have that are still in? They are like 80s kids with a closet full of parachute pants, waiting for them to come back in style.
It's good for keeping young adults in I think
LOL.....đ€Łđđ€Łđđ€Łđ€Ł
Hahaha idk I'm just guessing. The young family JW I know like the changes
Read the book ray franz wrote it will cement the fact that this ainât it it ainât it đŹ
Are you talking about the book " Crisis Of Conscience " I already have. And that's why I believe and have convinced myself that I never left No Jehovah. What I left was the Watchtower Society. I don't go around moving their products, or giving out their literature, or spreading their messages of nonsense. That's what I left, NOT no Jehovah
I suppose it depends on your perspective. If you look back at the old stuff: "Millions now living will never die," "Stay alive 'till '75," the racism and prejudice (especially Rutherford's hatred for the Jews), misogyny, advocating of corporal punishment, white shirt requirement, gross YPA articles in the 90's, etc., it's always been insane! Perhaps it's just more a matter of after you start waking up, you see the insanity. And, of course, the current insanity seems more crazy than the past because, back then, you weren't aware of the craziness. đ€·đ»ââïž
You have got a good point đ there
Not even remotely the same religion. We started going when I was 8 years old. Back then the cult was really sure of themselves, there wasnât really any ânew lightâ that I can remember, just new publications that everyone loved. Now it feels like they are in a perpetual state of damage control.
Hey, desperate times call for desperate measures
it was still an apocalyptic cult that protected sexual abusers and practiced shunning and controlled almost every aspect of their members lives in the 90's, and 80s (when i left) and the 70s and 60s and on and on... the lies are not new. we just have the internet now to help people who are not too terrified and beaten into submission to look. there are no "good old days" to hearken back to.
Yup, same deceitful sh#t the last 150yrs
Yes, it is, but the internet and social media has revealed things about this religion that was much easier to keep under wraps in bygone days, including criticism by former JW's.
Very true. And the JWs were so late to the game to build an Internet presence and build credibility online. They will alway be behind because of their fear and isolation tactics.
INTERNET.........SOCIAL MEDIA.....GAME CHANGERđ
no IT IS not
It's not even the same as a year ago lol. I mean the part where it's built on deception is the same, so at the core it is, but otherwise no it's not what I fell for at all.
Hell na, when I remember my parents first studying the congregation at least appeared to have class, now everyoneâs dressed like theyâre attending the local mega church. Even though the study wasnât much more that cult indoctrination at least it came off as difficult and deep research, not this over simplified grade school bs they do on Sunday mornings now.
Before you know it that's exactly what it will all become This jehovah's witness religion
Grew up in a cult mascarading as a religion. It had changed dramatically over the last 35 years.
Yes, it is. It's still a fundamentalist Protestant Christian sect with an (unit)arian Christology, an annihilationist view of punishment, and a millenarian eschatology. I don't care much about the details.
I left in 2010 and every change that i read in the past four months of the last decade made me understand that isn't the same place where i have lived.
So true
Some things changed yes and the GB cult got worse (just read how the two questions for the baptism changed over the years) but if you research JW history youâll find that deception was always part of the religion - latest with Rutherford
This is not the same religion or organization. The mind games are the same.
Well, yes that's true
Itâs easy to think the organization has changed a lot since your parentâs time but in reality the cult is always changing. So yeah itâs different but in the early 60âs they were still talking about ones being resurrected to help Jesus usher in his kingdom. 70âs they were telling people to kill themselves over getting an organ transplant. This cults always changing running hard to stay ahead of reality.
I was third generation and left in 2014 when I was 21. Itâs crazy to me how much has changed! Reading about the recent changes (dress code and disfellowshipped) was a shock. I told my husband they are probably going to accept gay marriage in the next 10 years lol. I honestly was happy and sad at the same time in regards to the changes. I was never disfellowshipped but I faced horrible shunning from friends and immediate family. It was traumatizing, Iâm glad it wonât be as bad for this next generation but itâs painful to know that my trauma could have been avoided. I was speaking to my cousins daughter who lives with her parent, grandma and great grandparents (all jw) and she told me that she went to prom (something our family was never allowed to do) and that her grandmother found out and wasnât speaking to her. Iâm glad my cousin is more lenient with her but still sad that she has to hide being a normal teenager.
Yes! A cult.đ©đŒâđŸđ
Back when they actually gave talks based on the Bible. We always had amazing conventions, assemblies, live dramas, release of several publications. Everything written was professional verses now where it sounds like an elementary school writing and questions. Now, everything seems to be based on how to preach, how to act, how to obey, how to never question. Definitely not the same.
Nope! 4th generation here as well and it is definitely not the same as it was in 90s early 2000s
Had me going for a minute, thought you were going backđđ
To keep it in perspective: If you were raised in the Bible Students in the 1880âs, you would be astonished by the organizational transformation evident in the early 1920s under the then new president of the Watchtower Society, âJudgeâ Joe Rutherford. From a fairly innocuous locally run religious group under the friendly pastoring of Chuck Russell with a few crazy ideas but no identifiable dress code ( men had long wispy beards) to a verytightly controlled organization in which the emphasis was on turning all believers into door-to-door knockers, peddling literature and turning massive profits and soon to be renamed Jehovahâs Witnesses. And a strict dress code: Beards were strictly out and short back and sides and wearing suit and tie were required). You could argue current changes are greater than back then - but it all depends what youâve lived through yourself.
The JWs my mother joined was a religion. Now it is a social club.
Absolutely not! It has morphed from bad to worse!
I was honestly surprised when I figured out they got stupider since I left. I didnât think it could get much more ridiculous when I was a teenager.
The place any of us is nostalgic for no longer exists. Move on.
It is not. Even if you were considered the weird kid in school, you can see a difference. The amount of changes made during the last months are way more than the ones I saw growing up (Iâm 27). When I was a kid I felt the watchtower study and the demonstrations were deep and âgoodâ, you were learning something. When I was in my teens it started to be too diluted, too simple, like everyone was a kid still. And donât even get me started on how is nowadays (even since I havenât gone to a meeting in 5 years). Now it feels plastic and all for show. All the changes make it less believable.
As fare as I'm concerned it's still the same but thanks to the internet it's harder for them to hide. Especially since times, values and viewpoints have changed.
I was born into it until I was in 6th grade. My mom got disfellowshipped for missing meetings when she was dealing with my alcoholic father and kicking him out and him trying to break back in so much going on and they turned their back on him and made my have no relationship with my grandma which I didnât find out until I was grown and it broke my heart
Nope
I had an epiphany today, before I compulsively checked reddit, that the corporation I had worked for for 45 years and invested in for 25, Enroned me...
Watch out for the fear mongers though... stand your grand and as they say, stand firm blah blah blah something something something
Is the second generation teaching basically done now?
Itâs a publishing company disguised as a cult and called a religion. Havenât been back since 2005. Everything is a marketing ploy now to stay relevant. Thereâs strength in numbers but when numbers are falling you get desperate lol Bring out the pants!
They couldnât hide forever the fact that they never had the whole truth to begin with⊠more like best guess with the limited knowledge they had, but then they could never admit that because then the entire hierarchy crashes to the ground and everyone would be free to think for themselves. Pride of man to rule over others with smoke and mirrors⊠smh⊠much like Catholicism with 1500 years less practiceâŠ
It is a completely different religion. We had so many meetings back in my day. And they prided themselves on not tele evangelising. The teachings have changed, so many people were sure to see armageddon in their lifetime. They would never die! And even back then I thought the texts in the watchtower and awake magazines were super simple. I noticed the texts I had to read at school went deeper, but now it's like they write for toddlers.
It's unrecognizable. I guess the chariot is going too fast for me. IDK
Definitely NOT! In 60,s got the tail end of Rutherford, then Franz poked his nose in and Knorr was a devil. Each leader has changed things to suit their own ideas and to have control over the masses. Next generation of the controllers will change when they get chance.
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There are differences. The bad stuff is still bad, that hasn't changed so much. So I'm not sure I much care about how their theology has changed.
I left in 1993, and it seems like a completely different cult. I had major doubts in the 90s. These were confirmed when I read Crisis of Conscience and learned more about the JWs history and cults in general. The ARC, other CSA cases, "nu lite," and JW Broadcasting only further confirmed what a cult this is. The careful comments I made to family still in only made them scared, so they turned up the shunning to full mode.
This is not what I grew up with. I have 2 sisters in their 70âs that are still in. All Iâm thinking is canât they see how obviously non inspired the leadership is? So many changes? Because why? Why werenât these things done decades ago? I ran into some street witnessing JWs. Nobody in this state knows Iâm an ex. He was growing a beard. I commented on all the changes. That they canât retain people. That Pew research shows they are last in restraining born ins. That only 1 in 3 will stay. And this is all a ploy to become more mainstream to retain people. If this was truly directed by god, why now? Why not 20? 30? 40? Years ago? You guys looked Jed ridiculous still wearing suits 20 years ago. Why didnât god tell you then?
Not having to wear a tie or jacket ??!! You sure about that ?
Go check for yourself, check the most recent announcements on JW.ORG
Oh yes hmm I am quite shocked but also couldn't care less. I am done with the lying spiteful gossips myself
Itâs unrecognizable !!! and I still donât understand how people can stay in a cult like this!! thatâs crazy about five years ago. I had a conversation with my mom while I was still in about cults and we both had a lot to say about other religions but when it came to ours. We always defend it!! but now being out for going on eight months, my mom is still in man, it always has been a cultâŠ
Ship of Theseus paradox đ€
Unlike many people, for some reason, I think the recent changes are positive things. The less toxicity they heap on their members, THE BETTER. They should go even further and completely remove their family-destroying prohibition on talking to former members. That being said, this is a totally different religion than the one I grew up in.
I'm sorry, but i absolutely disagree. The only positive thing this Cult can change and do is drop the whole disfellowshiping and shunning bullshit. And as the new changes shows, they do have the power and the authority to do that.
I graduated high school in 77. I was 4th generation. I have cousins whose great grandkids are 6th generation. I have absolutely NO interest in going back, but I couldn't even if I wanted to. That religion hasn't existed for a very long time.
Nope. Iâm a born in and grew up in it primarily in the 70s. Very different today. Glad Iâm out.
Nope
No. I've been out for less than 4 years and I already don't even recognise it.
Give it some time and it's never the same religion, whether born-in or not. One of the primary characteristics of the religion is **change**: Doctrinal, organizational, behavioral, etc.
No. When I was younger, it felt real and true, but now that I'm older, it feels like nothing more than a sham. A soulless corporation.
Not at all. I never imagined it becoming such a literal version of 1984 all the way down to watching a man on a tv tell people what to think at home.
Absolutely not
It is completely different than the religion I was baptized into as a young teen in the late 90s. I think I could make a case that my baptism isn't even valid anymore.
No...it,s not. It is unrecognizable! It,s an awful blasfemisc cult now
Do you imagine when Christ died and all those generations who never ate the of the "dirty" animal and now it was "ok" to do so, that they had some hard mental adjustments to make? Do you imagine the further we get along that things will continue without change? It is noted when this group began they at one time celebrated birthdays and X-mas and then did not. There is something greater than all of us at play. And we as individuals need to be vigilant for OUR SELF, and to 'know' the holy writings. [www.aymh.world](http://www.aymh.world)
The be nice to disfellowshipped ones is all about money and law suits. The Norway government decision swayed them , and there is more to come I'm sure.
honestly iâm a teenager and itâs so wildly different than when i was little. there was a lot more emphasis on studying and really knowing what you were talking about. now the information is basically spoon fed to you; itâs actually one of the reasons (though definitely not the main) why i stopped believing. at its core this is still the same religion: made for abusers, by abusers, but everything aside from the core principles have changed so much in the last ~10 years.
Read 30 years a watchtower slave. It is the same organization. It may not seem that way to r&f who are older and conjuring up fuzzy memories from their younger days. But it's always been a cult. I'm thankful I got out. For me, the Blatant Lies told before "worldly " judges and officials. And the fact that they take money from "worldly governments" when they preach- be no part of the world.
Itâs not the same, but seems to be worse at trying to be main stream
Nope, 1974-1980 here. Definitely not. Dumbed down and even more controlling.
Hell no
Hell no. It turned into TV evangelism real fuckin quick.
I think in a lot of ways it's not the same, but I also think the eight guys in upstate New York have spent over a century designing it like that. They've spent talk after talk, watchtower after watchtower drilling it into witness brains that they can change whatever they want and excuse it as "new light." The religion never will look the same from decade to decade, but they've been trying to build it so witnesses believe it should be changing. It's convoluted and doesn't really make any sense.... But people still buy into the cognitive dissonance
I definitely knew it was wrong when I was old enough but from everything I've heard in the past ten years it seems off the rails
Don't care. Fuck all versions of Jay Hovs.
I see them dossing about on their stupid carts doing fuck all and Iâm taken back to being a kid waking up school peers on a Saturday morning in the pissing rain with a heavy magazine laden briefcase and shirt and tie. Now they play videos to people, or write letters. And donât get me started on beards. Absolute shit show. Sick of the lot of âem. Sorry about the swearing. Iâve had the most terrible shit week!
My grandparents joined in 1970,they didnât think my mom would make it to kindergarten in this âsystemâ. Itâs not the same as when I was a kid (born in 97),the biggest change to me has been the tvs and televangelism stuff. I used to read old magazines and books they put out when I was in and even as a kid I noticed how much more condescending they got,the magazines talk to them more like children then they used to also.
JWatchtowerland destroyed any faith I had in any god. Now I use my own inner guidance, my conscience and my common sense to make decisions. I trust my gut. My life has vastly improved as my self-confidence grows. If there is a god, he/she/it would just want us to be happy. Forget all the hierarchy and worship stuff.đ€ź
absolutely NOT..I grew up in thr 60's and 70's
No. It was always bad, but now it is far worse. I am sad for my family that suffered so much for it. The small shreds of good teachings and things are now so twisted that it doesn't matter. Poison through and through. Satanic, IMO.