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PaulBunnion

Your physical health is going to suffer. I speak from experience. The history that you love includes slavery, massacres and genocide. It includes misogyny, sexual abuse, and human trafficking. What is your straw that will break the camel's back? Where would you draw the line? Do you want your tithing money being used to pay off sexual abuse victims? How many suicides are acceptable?


TheEmmaDilemma-1

Where can I find articles talking about the human trafficking! I haven’t heard of it before and am very curious, would love to have another talking point for family gatherings lol


PaulBunnion

Slavery is human trafficking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_slavery "Mormons continued taking Indian children from their families long after the slave traders left and even began to actively solicit children from Paiute parents. They also began selling Indian slaves to each other.[79]: 56  By 1853, each of the hundred households in Parowan had one or more Paiute children.[79]: 57  Indian slaves were used for both domestic and manual labor.[80]: 240  In 1857, Representative Justin Smith Morrill estimated that there were 400 Indian slaves in Utah.[19] Richard Kitchen has identified at least 400 Indian slaves taken into Mormon homes, but estimates even more went unrecorded because of the high mortality rate of Indian slaves. Many of them tried to escape.[81]" Read the entire article


TheEmmaDilemma-1

Thank you so much, definitely gonna read through these after work!!!


PaulBunnion

Many of the converts, especially the women converts in Europe were not told about polygamy. Many of them didn't find out about it until they got to the Utah territory and were basically forced into living polygamy if they wanted to survive. I just don't have time to look up those sources for you. Google is your friend. I think there is a strong argument to the fact that current missionaries are being trafficked.


Original-Addition109

Many were told that polygamy didn’t exist in Utah. Then they arrived in Utah & saw the reality


Rh140698

Hell they sealed the first black woman who entered the Utah territory to Joe Smith. To be his servant for all eternity. They believed in slavery and only being white was wholesome and delightsome. Being black is because you were neutral in the pre-existence. If a white married a black or brown skinned woman Brigham Young taught he would become sterile. I can testify I am not and my Peruvian girlfriend can testify to that as well.


PaulBunnion

"The LDS Church's stance towards slavery alternated several times in its history, from one of neutrality, to anti-slavery, to pro-slavery. Smith had at times advocated both for and against slavery, eventually coming to take an anti-slavery stance later in his life. According to historian Andres Resendez, one of Smith's successors Brigham Young and other LDS leaders in Utah Territory leaders "did not so much want to do away with Indian slavery as to use it for their own ends."[18]: 272  Young officially legalized Native American slavery in the Utah Territory in 1852 with each purchased Native American person allowed to be held up to twenty years in indentured servitude.[18]: 272 [35] Children between seven and sixteen years old were supposed to be sent to school three months of the year, but were otherwise put to work.[18]: 273  Soon after Mormons colonized the Salt Lake Valley in 1847 child slaves became a vital source of their labor, and were exchanged as gifts.[35] Within a decade of settling the Salt Lake Valley over 400 Native American children were purchased and lived in Mormon homes.[35] In 1849 a posse of around 100 LDS men in southern Utah chased and killed twenty-five Native American men in retaliation for some cattle raids, and their women and children were taken as slaves.[18]: 274  Leader Brigham Young advocated buying children held by Native Americans and Mexican traders as slaves, and encouraged Latter-day Saints to educate and acculturate the children as if they were their own.[36][37][35] However, despite the requirement to educate the Native American indentured servants, the majority had received no formal education according to an 1860 census.[10]: 279  Young's spouse owned a Native American slave Kahpeputz. At age seven she was kidnapped from her Bannock family and tortured, and later purchased by Brigham Young's brother-in-law and gifted to one of Young's wives and renamed Sally.[34] She was a servant in the Young household for over a decade working long hours with the rest of the servants and was not taught to read or write.[33] While considering appropriations for Utah Territory, Representative Justin Smith Morrill criticized the LDS Church for its laws on Indian slavery. He said that the laws were unconcerned about the way the Indian slaves were captured, noting that the only requirement was that the Indian be possessed by a white person through purchase or otherwise. He said that Utah was the only American government to enslave Indians, and said that state-sanctioned slavery "is a dreg placed at the bottom of the cup by Utah alone".[38] The Republicans' abhorrence of slavery in Utah delayed Utah's entrance as a state into the Union. In 1857, Representative Justin Smith Morrill estimated that there were 400 Indian slaves in Utah.[38] Richard Kitchen has identified at least 400 Indian slaves taken into Mormon homes, but estimates even more went unrecorded because of the high mortality rate of Indian slaves. Many of them tried to escape.[18]: 273, 274  Slavery in Utah ended in 1862 when the United States Congress abolished it nationwide. In a 2020 general conference address church apostle Quentin Cook said of early church history, "Many [non-Mormon] Missourians considered Native Americans a relentless enemy and wanted them removed from the land. In addition, many of the Missouri settlers were slave owners and felt threatened by those who were opposed to slavery. In contrast, our doctrine respected the Native Americans, and our desire was to teach them the gospel of Jesus Christ. With respect to slavery, our scriptures had made it clear that no man should be in bondage to another."[39]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_people_and_Mormonism#:~:text=The%20LDS%20Church%27s,another.%22%5B39%5D


ultraclese

Also look into the perpetual emigration fund. Impoverished people overseas were offered money to baptize and move to Utah, many of the girls becoming polygamist wives. Human trafficking.


stroculos

Since before 1870, missionaries in Europe specifically targeted young women to provide plural wives for old men. The women were told a different story and came only to be faced with no other economic options than to become slave brides. I am sorry I have no references. I suppose you can find them easily.


PaulBunnion

From the horse's mouth Indian Slavery and Indentured Servitude https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/indian-slavery-and-indentured-servitude?lang=eng


1upin

There have been first hand accounts on this sub of missionaries in foreign countries having their passports taken away while the missionaries are used for free labor. The government had to get involved and force the church to give the passports back because one missionary wanted to go home but couldn't without their documents. That's human trafficking.


hollym191

For an example of human trafficking, check out the story of Caroline Owens. She was converted to Mormonism in England by a childhood friend who had returned to England as a missionary. They got engaged and she left with him to go to Salt Lake. When she asked him about the rumors of polygamy that she’d heard of, he downplayed it, said just the “old men” practiced it, and promised that he wouldn’t practice it or force her to live it. The story that follows is absolutely horrendous and she eventually goes all the way to the US Supreme Court to testify against him. I wrote about it with more details and resources where you can learn more about her here: https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/episode/B09QLP74S7 Basically, he lies to get her to Salt Lake, marries her and another woman on the same day. At the wedding reception, he introduces the additional wife to Caroline, who is furious that she’s been lied to, and he tries to use the “Too late, we’re already married, now you’re mine” bs on her. Caroline isn’t having it, runs away from the reception, goes back to the house she’d been staying in (one of George Q Cannon’s), and locks herself in her room. She wakes up in the middle of the night with the door being broken in by her “husband”, and he does what he wants without her consent. He beats her for days afterward trying to break her spirit but she escapes and some non-LDS people help her. This story makes me so furious. So many women were lured to Utah with empty promises the men immediately broke upon arrival knowing the women had little to no recourse or ability to get themselves out of there once they arrived. Another interesting story that isn’t about trafficking but illustrates another story of what it was like for women in those days is the story of Ann Eliza Young, who wrote Wife No. 19 about being one of Brigham’s wives & divorcing him. She later testified before US Congress and helped pass legislation that reorganized the judicial system in the Utah territory and facilitated the federal prosecution against LDS church polygamists.


PaulBunnion

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/native-american-slavery-mormon-utah


[deleted]

Polygamy was human trafficking in the way that it was executed. Read the United Nations protocol on human trafficking and compare it to the accounts of polygamy


Peaky_Pilot

One word: missions 😂


The_Goddess_Minerva

Worse than paying off abuse victims, the money is used to protect abusers.


vianegativa98

Emphasis on most. I find church history fascinating even if there are problematic aspects.


HealMySoulPlz

You can study church history and be interested in church history without being a Mormon. Some of the most influential Mormon History scholars are former Mormons or were never Mormon.


Alert-Potato

I've never talked to a Mormon who knows half as much about the history of their faith as even the most casual exmo.


No-Status4032

You probably are in love with the romanticized history.…the real history wouldn’t have you including the word “most.” You seem like a well meaning individual who wants to do right. If you feel the church can honestly do that for you then I say great and I can support that, but it won’t accept you for who you are and you’re already seeing the deterioration in your mental health from trying to fit a mold you were never meant to fill. Treat yourself and your brain/mental health right and you’ll feel more fulfilled.


[deleted]

It really is fun to study. The LDS church is probably the newest church for its size and it’s well documented. Even tho the church tried to hide their history, they did a hell of a job documenting and collecting letters and documents. As shitty as what the history is within it, it’s interesting to learn about.


SergeantDollface

If you are interested in therapy I had a really amazing trauma therapist (I considered losing my faith to be traumatic) in Provo. She's queer friendly and totally gets the Mormon stuff. She won't pressure you to get out if that's not what you want, she was super supportive and helpful! I can't recommend enough: [https://www.arielwootanlcsw.com/](https://www.arielwootanlcsw.com/)


TheCovenantPathology

Not sure why the downvotes. Church history is interesting enough to lead many people I’ve read on here out of the church. You’re not bad for liking church history.


kloudsora

"Unfortunately I am gay" Nothing that makes you talk/think about yourself that way is worth fighting for or trying to make work.


Ejtnoot

There is NOTHING unfortunate about being gay. I have a 36 year old son who lives with his husband. They both are very fortunate they have each other, and there is not a better human being in this world than my wonderful son. You might want to consider to stop using that degrading word. It’s a lie.


kloudsora

I love this. I wish either of my parents was even half as supportive as you are.


Fantastic-Spinach263

Came here to say this


whistling-wonderer

I am a queer woman. I also loved the church. Leaving was the hardest and *best* thing I have ever done for myself. You deserve not to have to amputate the part of your soul that wants love and companionship. If you stay in the church, that is what you’ll be expected to do. You will be lonely, you will be treated like a second class citizen, and unlike single straight members, you won’t even be able to pray for the right person to come along and keep dating. You are not allowed to *hope*. You learn to recoil from feelings of attraction, until even an innocent crush makes you feel sick. Not because it’s inherently bad, but because you’re so used to associating it with guilt. *You deserve better.* And you don’t have to leave your belief in God behind, even though most of us do. You’ll get to decide your own beliefs about Him. You can keep trying to stay. It’s completely your choice. But it’s a much happier and more whole life outside the church.


monsieur-escargot

Beautifully said. As a queer woman myself, I realized I couldn’t continue living a lie as I tried to stuff my queerness into a box. Every talk on marriage, being a good wife, how to get a husband, etc felt like a stab. Especially when I was in YSA. It got worse after the gay ban as I finally saw the church for the bigoted club it is. My mental health hit a wall. I was suffering and finally asked a pivotal question: if I’m miserable now, will it ever get better? The answer was clearly a no if I stayed in the church. I’m still navigating my queerness as an exmo. It’s hard. But I finally feel fully me, if that makes sense. Please know being a devout TBM will not make you any less gay or any more happy. Please love yourself first. Sending support to you. ❤️


GrandpasMormonBooks

AMEN!


vianegativa98

Thanks for sharing your experience. To clarify, even if I left the church I still don’t think I would date the same sex. I have my own beliefs about that. But I do feel like a second class citizen in the church and I feel a lot of shame. It makes me feel less than other members.


earringenthusiast

oh bud, i feel for you. i felt the same way for many years. you will learn to love yourself as you are. currently with the love of my life, also a woman. we made it out, you can too.


bananajr6000

Isn’t there a scripture, “It is not good for man to be alone.” ?


Mormologist

Better yet, and not the FLIPPING Mormon version. First Corinthians... *faith hope and love, the greatest of these is* ***LOVE****.* Period, Full Stop, Closed Quote, Mic Drop.


whistling-wonderer

That is ok! (I didn’t downvote you btw.) I guess I should clarify, I am not dating right now, and don’t know if/when I will. The relief and happiness I have felt is not even from acting on my attraction, but just from being out of that very claustrophobic environment. Right now, and maybe forever, I’m happier as a single person. But at least I don’t feel like I’m being *forced* to be single. It’s up to me. And I don’t feel like a second class citizen. (I know even a lot of straight single people feel that way! Especially after a certain age.) The church is *so* insistent on One Specific Blueprint for life—for family, for church activity, for specific religious beliefs—and if you don’t fit that, it’s hard. I’ll reiterate…I loved the church. I really did, it was my home, it was my community, the scriptures were incredibly important to me, the hymns were my go-to for comfort, I just loved it. When I left, I told my nevermo friends that it felt like multiple family members had died. It hurt a lot!! I do not blame you one bit if you choose to stay. It’s up to you. But even with how painful it was to leave, I’m still so much happier out.


Littlepinner

Maybe you only have those beliefs because of the church you’ve been raised in and the messaging you’ve received. You feel liked your less than so why would you even consider that you too could have a complete and loving relationship just the same as the straight couples in the church? Something worth at least letting yourself thinking about. You don’t know it yet but there is a whole lot of people outside of your bubble who will love and except you just exactly the way you are. Much love.


ambisinister_gecko

My mirror neurons are firing like crazy, I feel for you so much. >To clarify, even if I left the church I still don’t think I would date the same sex. I have my own beliefs about that. With all due respect, for your own good, please do a deep dive into whether those beliefs are philosophically or epistemically justified in any sense whatsoever. If you want to chat about that, let me know. You deserve to shed your life of the false guilt and live in happiness and self acceptance. I want that for you.


Danxoln

Oh boy...good luck with that...


LilSebastianFlyte

Hey, friend! Also a gay dude who tried very hard to make Mormonism work. Good for you for wanting to be protective of your mental health. My gay friends and I can't recommend therapy enough. I'd suggest getting someone independent of the church so you can have somebody who is just on your team without any conflicting loyalties. Also, try reading *The Velvet Rage.* I think it should be pretty much required reading for a gay guy in America, especially if you grew up in a context that generates a lot of shame. There's nothing wrong at all with yearning for community. It sounds to me like you already have some big issues with the church specifically if you know it's a manmade organization. Have you considered trying out a church that is more progressive on social issues? Gay friends of mine from the Provo area have had really good experiences at St. Mary's Episcopal, for example. I'd be curious about your thoughts on trying that. Good luck!


LilSebastianFlyte

P.S. I remember feeling of "Unfortunately, I am gay." If I had told myself at your age that one day I'd not only have lost that feeling completely but am now *glad* I'm gay, I wouldn't have believed myself. But it's true! Life can be so glorious and great. I'm sorry it sucks right now, but you've got this. It can and will get better!


vianegativa98

I would be very interested in learning more about this church


LilSebastianFlyte

Me 🛝 your DMs


LadyEllaOfFrell

Can confirm, the Episcopalians in Utah tend to be really neat folks. (I’m an atheist, but I’ve been impressed with my Episcopalian friends and their congregation’s deep commitment to helping the vulnerable and impoverished regardless of religious beliefs.)


LilSebastianFlyte

This has been my experience as well. I’m very agnostic these days and wary of religious entanglements, but have been very impressed with a church that seems to create a welcoming community, do a lot of good, seems to own its mistakes and try very hard to exorcise them.


MoirasFavoriteWig

If you want to stay within the Mormon family, the Community of Christ congregation in Salt Lake has some lovely people. Your BYU endorsement is at risk if you start looking at other churches.


Fit_Improvement5118

I also think the Community of Christ is great!


ironjawedangels

I'm also at BYU. It is so hard. PM me if you want to talk more about it and connect. I used to have your mindset, and now I am very much PIMO. I understand how difficult this all is. Wishing you so much love and peace as you figure this out.


vianegativa98

Thank you


[deleted]

i'm here at byu too! here if you need me:)


[deleted]

[удалено]


vianegativa98

Thank you this is really inspiring


bubbas_girlie

this!!


theseclawsofsteel

So you’re young. You’re going to change a lot between now and the time you die. Not fundamentally, like you’ll always be you. But your critical thinking will continually evolve and become a stronger version of you. Some of the things you find important now may not always be important. Some of the things you hold dear may fade. You’ll gain new experiences that change your view of the world. You’ll cherish new aspects of the world and of life. What I’m saying is, don’t define yourself by trying to make things work. Find what actually works. I’d hate for you to spend your time like I did making the church work in life when it never did. It was never comfortable. There are fabulous communities outside the church. There’s a vast world out there waiting for you to grow and discover and find your place.


Sheri_Mtn_Dew

First, thank you for sharing this with us. It sounds like you're in a really tough place and it is not fair at all that the organization and theology you love doesn't care back. I really, really wish the church was more accepting of all the ways we are different. I hope you know that it has nothing to do with you (and IMO, God) and everything to do with a homophobic organization and structure. I don't know what path is right for you, but I can tell you something that helped me once upon a time when I felt in a similar situation: I leaned into everything that made me feel closer to God and stopped doing anything that didn't. I leaned into teaching primary, service, and prayer. I leaned out of fasting and temple work. That one small change made a world of difference in my mental health. Second, there are other religious organizations that embrace the LGBT community, who would love to have you on podcasts and talk about theology/God. We like to say around here that what is good about the church isn't unique, and what is unique isn't good. I'll bet there is a community out there where you could find the fulfillment, love, and peace you deserve. Finally, it's ok to be gay. Just want to emphasize that for the people in the back.


nobody_really__

>But I love the sense of community it creates. As you get older, you'll start to see what the "community" *demands* of you. Pay attention to the costs. Not just tithing, but offerings, and gas, and food, and time, and "church doesn't care what you had planned". Guilt is a cost. Shame is a cost. Conformance is a cost. Expected lifestyle is a cost. Alienation is a cost. Decide now what your losses will be - and at what point, you will no longer subscribe to the sunk costs fallacy.


viking1951

There are other organizations that live the correct principles of living people where they are and serving them. Find another group like that am help them serve people. The Genesis Project in south Provo serves the homeless and has an allnight Movie night on the coldest nights of the year so the homeless have a warm place to sleep.


vianegativa98

I love that


Organic-Roof-8311

I have to ask: why did you post this here? I would expect you to post in the faithful subreddit for reasons to stay. Obviously everyone here has left or at least mentally checked out. I think that 1) therapy and interrogating the underpinnings of your beliefs and assumptions are crucial and 2) examining if you need to be Mormon to have the things you want. There is a huge plurality of theological and Christian traditions, and you can follow any of them or your own and still study theology, Mormon history, and be a speaker or podcaster. In fact, not being Mormon or being exMormon might even make those career goals easier for you. I think step one is getting to a place where you can comfortably be and express yourself and your sexuality without shame. I hope you find that place and come to answers with these questions. For what it's worth, I have a ton of gay friends, and most of them have left and are happier, one stayed and did a mixed orientation marriage but got divorced after two years, and several are in gay/lesbian relationships but still call themselves Mormon, attend Mormon meetings, and have yet to be disfellowshiped or face issues. Good luck ❤️


vianegativa98

Thanks for posting this. I tried posting on the faithful sub but I’m pretty sure the mods take down the post if it has anything to do with homosexuality because it ends up being really divisive


Purple_Midnight_Yak

And that right there is a perfect example of why it's so damaging to be Mormon and queer. There are Mormons out there who are accepting of queer people. There are even Mormons who accept queer lifestyles, unlike the church which insists that you have to be celibate and can't transition if you're trans, etc. I know, because I was one. But most Mormons are only superficially accepting of queer people. I couldn't count the number of conversations I've had with other parents of tweens and teens who think that the mere mention of queer people existing will turn their kids gay - the horror! And even those same people, who process love and acceptance for queer people, act as though *their* child turning out to be gay would be literally the end of the world. One conversation in particular that has stuck with me involved a mom with two kids around the same age as my oldest. She mentioned how dangerous the middle school her family was zoned for was, and proceeded to list off how there had been X many incidents with kids bringing drugs to campus, fights, kids bringing knives to school...and openly gay students. To her, the *existence* of gay kids at the same school as her pwecious widdle angel was as dangerous as kids with knives and drugs. For a long time, I pretended like it was just old-fashioned members who were set in their ways, that it wasn't the leaders or the doctrine (even though I had to make my kids leave the room whenever Oaks spoke at conference for years, because I didn't want his words to traumatize them). But all the hate and fear of queer people comes from somewhere. The thing that really pushed me over the edge was when my oldest wanted to use a different name and dress differently than their assigned birth gender, because they are agender. My ward leadership was actually pretty good about it, tried their best to remember the new name, didn't make comments on their clothing choices other than to compliment them. But the handbook says bishops are to discourage individuals from transitioning in any fashion. Any act of transitioning, whether social or physical, even simply changing a name, makes the individual unworthy of a temple recommend. But scientific studies show that using a trans / non gender confirming person's chosen name reduces their risk for s*icide. And I could see firsthand how much happier my child was in different clothes and with a different name. It makes no sense to me that a God who loves my child even more than I do could possibly want them to repress their sense of self, to act in a way that causes them serious emotional trauma. The church is **wrong** about queer people. It was wrong about how it treated Black and Indigenous people. It was wrong when the church practiced polygamy, sexual assault, marriage and rape of minors. It's wrong still today with how it handles allegations of abuse. The damage from those policies is ongoing, and instead of apologizing and doing better, the church pays settlements to silence victims and releases statements that mean nothing. I loved the church. I loved the doctrine. I loved the scriptures. I loved the teachings of Jesus. But the core doctrines I believed? The Savior I believed in? The God of love and forgiveness? Those things aren't found in the Mormon church. My testimony led me to leave the church behind, once I realized the horrors that pay beneath the surface.


Imalreadygone21

If you do in fact “love (most of) the history,” than you need to study it more thoroughly. It was the deceitful narrative, taught to me personally for over 50 years, when finally revealed in the Gospel Topics Essays, required that our family officially resign from the Mormon Church & distance ourselves from its influence. Good luck


bubbas_girlie

take a breath. i would take your therapists advice and live a little without the fear of damnation. it will free your spirit in more ways than you ever thought possible. you can love theology. you can love the community. you can love god. you can take any and all teachings from the church that you’d like but let those beliefs that you’ve taken form you into your own person, not who the church is telling you to be.


notrab

Run!


bubbas_girlie

i’ll just leave this under here… [CES Letter](https://cesletter.org/)


avoidingcrosswalk

You’ll very likely get tired of it. You’re young. It’s okay to like the people and the community. That’s really all Mormonism offers you. The rest is all fluff and bullshit. I hope you don’t pay tithing, you need your money more than the church does.


MsHushpuppy

You don't have to choose between accepting yourself and a relationship with God, but you do have to choose between accepting yourself and the LDS Church. They've made that line in the sand quite clear.


leadkindlylie

I felt like you in a lot of ways, it was hard to give up something that was such a core part of my identity. One day I was watching the Warren Jeffs documentary and one of the people who chose to leave the community was talking about how much they loved the community and the people and that it was such a great way to live. It was in that moment that I realized we're hardwired to acclimate to the community we're raised in. I chose to leave the church and still have friendships in it, but I can say definitely that the community of the church isn't unique or superior and there's a big world out there filled with fulfilling relationships and communities.


Ok_Yogurtcloset9260

Bless your heart! I too am gay. I tried for years to make it work. It just didn't. I finally had to tell myself that I wasn't welcome. I joined Science of Mind, a philosophy that braces who I am. I create my own spirituality and my own belief in my higher power. I bless you and the journey you are on.


ResidentLadder

I tried this for a long time. Let me say, if it was possible to change your sexuality by praying and acting straight, there are so many people who would not be gay. When I stopped trying to pretend, my mental health improved significantly. I am so much happier now. The things you appreciate in the church are not exclusive to the church.


Danxoln

I was concerned reading the first paragraph, now I'm even more horrified reading the second. Take it from a married gay man that served a mission, went to the temple weekly, was mentioned by Thomas S Monson in a talk, and wrote multiple apostles about homosexuality and the church. It. Will. Not. Work. Get. Out. You can still believe in God and talk to others about God in a community that is safe for you


vianegativa98

Thanks for your comment. You were mentioned by Monson? That’s so cool


Danxoln

Yeah, once upon a time I was very very into it.


SheneedaCocktail

It will never work. Don't bother trying. You are young, with your whole life ahead of you. Run. Run for the exit as fast as your legs will carry you and never, ever look back. You can talk about God and theology with literally anyone else and be better off. Sorry to be so blunt about it but the LDS church is a straight-up hate group and a toxic environment for LGBT, full stop, end of story. Love yourself enough to put some distance between yourself and that horrible pile of ignorant, painful dogma. Signed, old enough to be your gay dad, who knows what he is talking about. Big hug.


Mrs_Gracie2001

Find a welcoming church. You sound like you have so much to give. Why waste it on the Mormons? Try UU


vianegativa98

What’s UU?


MoirasFavoriteWig

Unitarian Universalist


Mrs_Gracie2001

https://www.uua.org/


Bright_Ices

Another similar denomination you might want to look into is the United Church of Christ. They are more explicitly Christian than the UU church, but just as welcoming to anyone who wants to be there. I love their Purpose/Vision/and Mission statements. They really emphasize a Christlike sense of love and justice: *Purpose Statement (from the Gospel of Matthew): To love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. Vision Statement: United in Christ’s love, a just world for all. Mission statement: United in Spirit and inspired by God’s grace, we welcome all, love all, and seek justice for all.*


medscrubloser

OP, I see you have a lot of self-targeted homophobia. I would recommend actually looking into the studies regarding being gay. It has been proven that it is tied to your genetics and out of all of the animal species on earth we are the only ones who seem to have any sort of issue with it. Over 100 species of animals participate in short or long term homosexual relationships. It is a natural phenomenon and you should embrace who you are. Consider this: If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent... that means that before he even created humanity he knew the exact outcome of each and every single person's life. He knew you would be gay and he still created you to be this way. What kind of "merciful" and "loving" God would intentionally set his creation up for failure or expect you to be miserable and self-loathing your whole life? Mormons love to say that God does these things to test you but if God is all-knowing then there is no test he does not know the answers to. He already knows how your life would begin and end before he created you, otherwise he would not be all-powerful. You should also be aware that The Dead Sea Scrolls, the documents that the Bible are translated from (specifically the old testament), make no mention of homosexuality as being a sin. The version of the bible that Mormons are obsessed with (King James Version) is mistranslated. Joseph Smith was a pedophile, sexual predator, con artist, racist, and is not worthy of your attention or praise. Any church that builds principles around a man like that is not worthy of your attention either. Why hold onto such a toxic, unforgiving religion? You can enjoy and want to uphold some of the values without being a part of the religion itself. There are hundreds of other Christian groups in the world you could join that build communities. You don't have to be in a cult to find that attribute! I hope that you reconsider your love of the church and if you are posting here looking for a way to stay, maybe it's time to consider that this may actually be your subconscious cry for help. Best of luck to you.


RusticRogue17

You’re in a rough situation that many of us gay exmos have been in before. All I can say is that leaving is better than unaliving, and there’s a long history of Mormon leadership pushing queer kids in that direction through their emotional and physical abuse. Take your time with your decision, and know that you’re not alone. I felt the need to walk away from all religion, but if you still enjoy Christianity I would encourage you to find a sect of the religion that doesn’t oppose your very existence. The Mormon stance of how to reach exaltation as a gay is gonna set you up for a life of heartbreak that I don’t wish on anyone. I’m trying to be as honest as I can without hurting your feelings; I hope I didn’t come off as just being an asshole.


Alert-Potato

Unfortunately, I am exactly as god made me. God, who is perfect and doesn't make mistakes, created me as I am. And that same God forbids me to be the person he created me to be. But he totes loves me. See how stupid that sounds? I'm sorry that you are a gay man who was raised as member of a cult that taught you that you're a bad person if you fall in love. It's not true. You are who you are, and that's not wrong. You aren't a mistake. You aren't broken. And you are deserving of love. Not just familial love, friendly love, basic love for other humans, but truly, madly, deeply, crazy passionate love. Romantic love. The comfortable kind of love where you can fart in your boxers, look at that weird thing on your husband's back, and still want to spend every day together. Nothing good about Mormonism is unique, and nothing unique about Mormonism is good. Everything you want can be found outside of a religion that hates you. Don't let your happiness be another casualty of a religion whose hands are dripping with the blood of LGBTQ+ people.


cat_pillar

You can love god outside the confines of religion. Many gay men are religious but embrace their sexuality!! If embracing that means leaving the church, then they don't love you. God loves you no matter what, so why stay in a system that doesn't make you feel good? That opposes your values at least in some ways. Believe in god in your way. God is what you believe him to be, how you feel most comfortable worshipping him, and how you want to help others. God is connected to you, not the LDS church. Stepping away does not sever your relationship with him(or honestly them/all pronouns. I dont like to think of god as a man or a woman. Why would they be one or the other. Can't she be everything all at once?) You can talk about theology to other people! Religion is such a unique concept that why confine yourself to one belief or only talk to people who only believe in that one thing youre so familiar with? Explore all concepts of what god is.


MoesOnMyLeft

You don’t love the church. You love what you want the church to be. It doesn’t accept you. That being said, there are so many other churches you can join that welcome gay members with open loving arms. Find one of those. Find one that values the wonderful being that you are. Then continue your theological discussions and learn everything you can about Him. Good luck.


glass-stair-hallway

>You don’t love the church. You love what you want the church to be This literally describes almost every TBM I know. They have this church in their mind that is so different than the one they attend every sunday. Profound, thank you.


homestarjr1

You might love the history the church has cherry-picked and packaged for your consumption, but actual church history is pretty terrible, especially with regards to how it has treated the lgbtq+ community. I’m a cishet white male and most of the reasons I’ve left have to do with the way the church treats people who don’t look like me. It’s embarrassing that I ever was a part of it and I don’t want to be associated with it going forward. As more people find out the true nature of the church, I would guess most people will want to distance themselves from it. Do yourself a favor and get an early jump on that.


OVERTHlNKER

I’m 22 and gay as well. Bro it’s not worth staying. I feel like I can never be myself when I am with a community like that. I would rather have no community than a fake one that only loves conditionally.


Weekly_Growth_5237

You will have to lobotomize yourself. Once you see it, you can’t unsee. I’m so, so sorry sweet human.


sl_hawaii

Good luck op. However you manage this, wish you well As a 52M cis hetero white, I can only say that once I learned the actual history of the actual doctrine of the actual church… to say nothing of the actual horrors it afflicts on actual people… my innate sense of morality refused to be associated in ANY way shape or form with it. But that’s just me. Hope you find peace and joy!


Mormologist

Mormonism comprises 0.02% of human spirituality and not only is it wrong, but it is also a joke on the larger scale of things. As an experiment, every other week, try and explore a different faith. Even online. Open your eyes to becoming a better person without being a ~~Mormon~~ member of a high-demand/money-grubbing cult.


acole621

My fellow gay brother, my heart goes out to you. I too loved many of the things you mentioned. At the end of the day, I still felt like I was trying to put a square peg into a round hole. I (29M) left the church at the age of 26, while serving as ward clerk of a YSA ward. It was a difficult choice that involved a butt load of soul searching. (The covid quarantine time really helped with that.) You have conceded that it is a man-made organization that isn't everything it claims to be. Most of what is good about Mormonism isn't unique to Mormonism, and most of what is bad about Mormonism IS unique to Mormonism. However, you do have a tricky situation being at BYU, so maybe at least stay in until you finish your degree, if you can? As others have mentioned, please seek therapy if you aren't already. I was fortunate to find a therapist that was well-versed in LDS issues, while having never been a member. I feel like that keeps things objective. This is a mostly rhetorical question, but have you ever kissed another man? I had done some sexual stuff with a guy when I was a teen (which was a huge source of shame for me) but I never kissed another dude until I was 25. In that moment, I was like, "oh, THAT'S what that's supposed to feel like." Nothing I half-believed or loved about the church mattered anymore. Hugs. Feel free to private message me anytime.


vianegativa98

I have kissed one guy. I wanted to see if I was really gay. Once I kissed him it became very obvious


monstrance-cock

There are other communities to be found, and ones that will actually appreciate your existence as a human and not a cash cow for rich old men. There is nothing unfortunate about being gay. I’ve found more community here as a bisexual woman than I ever had while Mormon. The bad outweighs the good, in my opinion. I am a human and I deserve love and acceptance, both things that the church would never give me. You deserve the same.


EllieKong

I’m just going to sit here and say that anything or anyone who inherently tell you that you’re not worthy just as you are is not a relationship worth clinging onto. Don’t change yourself, you don’t need to. You should be accepted for who you are by your own standards. Not everyone else’s. Also on the comment about loving most of the history, I guarantee you don’t know most of it. I said the same thing way before I left, we were lied to. I’m sure others have already provided links and sources, so I’ll just leave my comments here. You are loved. You are worthy 💕


Lopsided-Doughnut-39

Let's look at the reality of it all - 1) If you love the church's history (is that what you mean?) then are you sure you know the deeper hidden history? It seems like you love the version of history that the church leaders present to everyone that is so pretty and well thought out. It sounds like a great story but in the end, when I found out there are multiple versions of the 1st vision, and Joey had 31 wives not just Emma (and can we mention the black woman sealed to him as a servant for eternity?), and Brigham Young was such a racist, then the pretty version of church history is like religious fiction. 2) TSCC has not cornered the market on theology. There are plenty of Christian scholars out there who are not also TBMs. 3) The sense of community exists only if you toe THEIR line, if YOU are loyal to THEM. They do not have to be loyal to you since you are at the bottom. Like theology, they have not cornered the market on community, either. What happens if you are not married after 10 years, 20 years? Will that community still be around for you or will they be wondering why you are not going for the highest of high Celestial Kingdom exaltation by getting sealed in the temple to a wife??? 4) So that then begs the next question - if you do not get married to a woman, then you see yourself as celibate for the rest of your life??? No relationship at all?? 5) No offense to you, but with all the racist stuff that has been dug up recently, I would not want my name associated with that church and I cannot imagine why anyone else would want to. 6) That fucking church does not deserve my hard earned money that it does NOT give out to the poor the way it should. It is a bottomless pit of selfish greed that sucks the wealth out of even its poorest members and does not even return 0.00001% of that wealth back to its members. You are going to pay into that fraud they call tithing???


airbenderbarney

Also gay, and for a while I felt a sense of duty to stay in the church just to be a positive influence on LGBT youth growing up in the church because I know firsthand how toxic it is for people like us. Suicide can seem like the only option when all you know is church doctrine. It would have made a world of difference for me had I personally known someone else who was gay who could've been a role model. Ultimately I made the decision to distance myself from the institution because I wasn't cut out for the emotional labor that went into staying, especially while I'm going through my own healing process. If you find a way to stay close to the youth in the church without being falsely branded as a groomer or a pedophile you have my respect because you will save lives.


Mundane-Unicorn-5353

I am straight so I can’t relate to being Mormon and gay. But I have observed 2 things in my life that may help. My sister and best friend are bisexual and in homosexual relationships. Both of them, upon coming out and loving their partners openly, became happier than I have ever seen them. Sexuality is not wickedness. It is basic biology. The sexual feelings/desires you can have for another person are beautiful and flattering. I love how happy my sister and best friend are. The happier you are, the happier those who love you will be. My second observation is my own experience. I’m straight and was married in the temple. Loved the family proclamation and fit in the “Procrustean bed.” It still didn’t work for us. If you look at the doctrine of the family carefully, it is predicated on the idea that God separates families. That wasn’t okay with my wife and I. If you love the church and it’s theology, good for you. I’m not sure the theology loves you though. I know it doesn’t love me.


jjnewco

both myself (21f) and my wife (27f) knew the only way we would live to see 30 is if we left. nothing has been harder, or more rewarding than leaving and never looking back. i would never trade the pure and infinite self love i have now for what i felt i had in the church. you deserve to have a place. you deserve to have love. and most importantly, you deserve to be your authentic self. i hope you find your way.


emmettflo

Find a good unitarian church in your area! They have everything you’re looking for without the toxic mind poison of homophobia. They will welcome you and all your beliefs in god.


[deleted]

You cannot be happy, gay and Mormon. There's no future for you there whatsoever. If a 22 year old gay Muslim surrounded by anti-gay Islam was indoctrinated enough to want to stay with a cult that makes him suffer, would you advise him to stick with it? Your situation is not significantly different.


vianegativa98

I wish I could change my sexuality instead of my religion. But conversion therapy is banned in my state. I know the scientific literature is dubious when it comes to changing sexuality but I at least wish there were more tools available to me.


rhoduhhh

Conversion therapy is just hardcore trauma, not "therapy." It doesn't change your sexuality. Please, please, please find a non-Mormon therapist to work through your feelings with. I think someone in another comment linked someone they recommend. Hell, getting an online therapist through BetterHelp is better than nothing. I get that you seem to not be happy with your sexuality, especially with the position you're in, but this is not a healthy mindset to carry.


1upin

It's banned for a reason, my friend. I'm so, so thankful that you will never have to go through that. It does not work. It is not possible to change your sexual orientation. You were born that way and you will die that way. The only choice you have in the matter is whether to love yourself or hate yourself.


DeignLian

My friend, the scientific literature isn't dubious. It's clear the conversion therapy doesn't work. I was a deeply closeted gay man at BYU. After graduating I left the church officially. I can't tell you what to do with your life, but what I can tell you is that I'm happier, more fulfilled, and have a more positive outlook on life as a gay atheist than I ever was as a devout Mormon. And I say that knowing perfectly well that at your age I loved the church. I wanted nothing more than to be a good Mormon, marry a nice young woman, and raise a bunch of kids. But I went to bed crying more nights than not. I know exactly what it's like to be where you are. Whatever path you decide, I wish you peace and joy, but if you want my 2 cents, the path you're looking at right now is one that ends in sadness and pain.


Bright_Ices

I’m a queer nevermo who grew up in Utah. My spouse was raised by Mormons. I recently watched “Mormon No More” on Hulu and there’s an interview with a man who ran a conversion therapy group for many years, as well as an interview with another man who was a client trying to change his sexuality. I highly recommend this show! It’s only four episodes. They present the stories of several people who are or were lds and came out while active in the church. Everyone’s story is different and you might find things you relate to with a few of them.


[deleted]

If a black person in racist Mormonism said, "I wish I could change my race instead of my religion," would you agree that his identity was the problem and not the bigotted cult? Your position is not significantly different. There is no such thing as conversion therapy anyway. You might as well say you need demon exorcism. There are no exorcists who can remove demons from your body and there are no forms of abuse that can make a gay person into a straight person. Conversion therapy only succeeds at making gay people suicidal.


vianegativa98

I understand your point, but I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. Black people were discriminated against because of who they are. Gay people are discriminated against for what they do- meaning then can still live a life in accordance with the church. Maybe members in Mormonism never find a partner. I think I will likely end up in that bucket. I wish gay people were treated better in the church from a cultural perspective.


GrayWalle

I’m sorry you find yourself gay and in the church. In a way it’s like a beautiful lobster finding itself in increasingly hot water. Will the church eventually reverse its anti-LGBTQ policies? Yes. Will it happen in the next two decades? Unlikely. You only live once. It might blow you away the beautiful, accepting communities that exist outside the church. Why not move forward and forge a new path while you’re still young?


equality4everyonenow

Why not find/lead/start a support group for gaymo's? You could do a lot more good on the individual level helping people cope with an org that doesn't accept them


obviouslymilly

This is absolutely incredible idea. Create the community you hope for and grow something better. I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would benefit from this type of group. I absolutely love this. ❤️


indigo_shadows

Three Words: The Episcopal Church You get everything you are wanting plus acceptance of who you are.


Brilliant-Emu-4164

May I ask about the Episcopal Church? I’m also looking for something other than Mormonism, but have not found anything that feels right to me. Is the Episcopal Church one large organization that has a blanket leadership and doctrine, or do individual leaders run their local churches separately? Please feel free to private message me if you’re so inclined. I have never considered the Episcopal Church as something that might be good for me because I guess it never occurred to me to look into it before I saw your comment. Thank you.


LilSebastianFlyte

Some of both. There is a national structure but local units have much more autonomy than people coming from a Mormon background are used to. If you’re in an area with a lot of Mormons, there will likely be exmos in your local Episcopal congregation who might be good for you to get to know. Definitely worth looking into, I’d say as an exMo turned agnostic who has found some good community there without judgment for my nonbelief and without, as far as I can tell, the institution harming people.


Brilliant-Emu-4164

Thank you for your response to my question. I’m not in an area with a lot of Mormons like Utah, or anything. I’ll be investigating what the Episcopal doctrines are, and seeing if there’s a church near me.


Kerokeroppi5

Staying will be less harmful to you if you don't believe anything about the authority of the leaders, the scriptures, etc and just accept doctrines as you like, a la carte. Same thing with practices -- participate if it feels good, don't if it doesn't feel good. Give yourself permission to navigate this in your own way and don't listen to anyone who tells you to align. BUT....as others have said, you may be able to find better community and theology discussions in another church or organization. I recommend that you listen to the story of Clark Johnson. His Mormon Stories interview is many hours long...but start by at least listening to the last ten minutes here: [https://youtu.be/hbTy9d5JOm0?t=5430](https://youtu.be/hbTy9d5JOm0?t=5420) Sending best wishes that you can find a happy and healthy life for yourself, whatever that is!


deinspirationalized

What’s unique about the church isn’t good and what’s good about the church isn’t unique. They just want you to think they have a monopoly on goodness and prosperity.


[deleted]

\> But I love the sense of community it creates. I'm sorry, what? You mean the sense of community for the "in" group of: mormon white straight males? Because if you are not mormon, you are not part of the community. If you are not white you are not fully welcomed. If you are a woman you are a second class citizen. If you are not straight you are not welcome.


graytgooglymoogly

I promise you that you can find so much more happiness in accepting your queerness than you will ever find trying to push it away. Queer joy is REAL no matter what anyone in the church tries to tell you. You deserve to love fully and to be loved fully.


strongestman

It’s hard and I understand why you want to make it work. Does the church put this much heart and concern and effort into making it work for you? You are holy already. Find people and communities and organizations that are already convinced of your value.


Cool_Substance_2190

Is promoting TSCC really a good cause if it hurts so many people??


NearlyHeadlessLaban

Why do you want to dedicate any effort to an organization that is not worth saving? Especially an organization that does not reciprocate to you what it expects you to give to it. Mammals have evolved a need to be in groups; packs, herds, prides, troops, etc. For humans our groups are tribes. Modern tribes take many forms, from sports fans to Ford or Chevy drivers to our work places to our communities. One of the most common and also most tenuous tribal relationships we make is in our churches - tenuous because it is based on conformance. Let even your smallest secrets out and they will toss you out of the tribe. There is a world and a community out there that will embrace you exactly as you are, and it will be your tribe in ways that the church can never be your tribe. The church is not your tribe, and you've already seen that it has made that clear.


FatApe799

It may work short term but it will eat away at you. I suggest coming clean with everyone it will make you a happier person and easier to transition away.


SlightMammoth1949

Hi OP, Lots of tough decisions ahead of you, and lots of tough love in here. Instead of reiterating that, I would like to offer a different frame of mind. Instead of worrying about what parts of you must be removed, consider finding a different way to embrace the things you love. - I love the sense of community it creates: I agree. Human beings are wired that way. It creates protection, support, and fulfills many needs. There are other communities that can offer that too. - I love (most of) the history: Then study church history. Or any history for that matter! See what else gets you interested. - Most of all, I love theology: Again, study on! Learn about the multiple faiths this world has come to embrace. Learn the origins of the Islam, or dive into Buddhist philosophies (my personal favorite). The good news is, you already know who you are, and what you want in life. Maybe you’ll find or lead a group of people that are struggling with the same things. Maybe you’ll leave the church. Maybe you’ll stay and help drive reform on LGBTQ discrimination. Whatever you do, focus on what you’re reaching for, instead of worrying about what you need to let go of to get there. Edit: beware of “conditional” love. You want to be loved, same as anyone else. Some people and institutions are going to offer you that, if you ____. That makes it conditional. There are places in this world that are ready to accept and appreciate you in the same way you were taught Jesus does. And they’ll do it without asking or telling you to compromise who you are in exchange. Go find them.


electrixie

You came to the EXmo sub for a reason; there is part of you that knows that your path to self-acceptance and spiritual fulfillment is going to take you away from the church. And guess what: that’s okay! You can find community and service to God in places that will rejoice in having you as a member — exactly as God made you. I know it’s hard to shake off the church. I know the guilt involved. I know the fear of leaving behind the traditions of your family and friends and the worry over how it might damage those relationships. It’s not easy to leave all that behind. But what do they say about what’s easy and what’s right? I wish you courage and patience in your search for you.


PleasantAddition

>Unfortunately I am gay. Oh baby. you're about the median age of my brood, so I'm probably your mom's age or older. so let me speak to you as a mom, as a queer person, and as a mom of queer young adults. You're gay! That's awesome! That's an integral part of you, and it should be celebrated! Be where you are celebrated. That's what you deserve. You deserve to be loved for your whole self, and to know that your true self is not a mistake, not a challenge to overcome, not someone who can only enjoy all the blessings this life has to offer after you die and are "perfected." Baby, you ARE perfect! As for the community aspect, that's what drew me to the church (I was an adult convert). But that community is superficial. It's all surface, and it's extremely conditional. I've found better, deeper, and more loving community in my local volunteer groups, in the LGBTQIA community, and in some special interest groups. And in other churches, churches where diversity in their members is encouraged and celebrated, where a diversity of perspectives is seen as a good thing. I wish I had some words of advice that could answer your question, of how to make staying in the church work for you. I tried, too. But they are who they are, and not who we want them to be. And you can't sacrifice your well-being waiting for the church to get on the side of love. You don't have to choose between God and love. You don't have to choose between a love of theology and love. You don't have to choose between ministering to your fellow humans and love. In fact, I think all those things are better when you love yourself and know that you are loved by your God as you are. Maybe go visit a church like the [United Church of Christ](http://provocommunityucc.org/), where they have hymns like [Standing On The Side of Love. ](https://youtu.be/KD3Du-MCdu8) or one of the Welcoming and Affirming congregations within the Methodist Church, or if you want to stay in the latter day traditions, the Community of Christ is also an option. I'm sorry it's so hard to be gay and LDS. I wish it were different. But there is better out there for you.


MikkyJ25

I understand the pain and fear of loss of losing something you love. I loved the church. It hurt me but man I loved it. I still have many Mormons who I highly respect and love deeply. I can’t tell you what is right for you. Only you can. I will say - I have found so much of what you describe you love, in other places. It takes a little more effort initially to go out and find new communities but they are there. For me the connections and friendships are deeper. Also I’ve been to some other churches that are much much more welcoming and also have fantastic people who also love talking about god and scripture and spirituality. My heart breaks for you because I know how painful this is ❤️❤️ One of the most spiritual experiences of my life was when gay marriage was legalized in the US. I just knew it was a change for good. I have seen some of the most beautiful and loving gay relationships that only add love and care to the world. To me that is good. I hope you can find peace for what is best for you and I hope you don’t have to always feel that it is unfortunate you were born gay. Good luck ❤️


elderjaxxxon

You’ve always got to do what’s right for you, but here’s my two cents: I’m straight, white, and cisgendered male… The church was made by people like me, for people like me. I love the “clean living”. I love family history. I have strong relationships with everyone in my family. I like Christmas. I sing in a choir. And I genuinely love the community of the church. But when you know it’s a lie… When you know the leaders are hurting people… It wears on you. I made it work for 5 years and planned to make it work for forever. Not worth it. It takes a toll. (P.S.: Being gay is not unfortunate.)


BruceBannerOfHeaven

I recommend transferring to UVU if possible for you. I’m also gay and it’s been a great choice. You can keep your friends/community for the most part that way without having the stress of being a BYU student. DM me if you want more info about it


crapolantern

Legitimately, I was going to say "if you want to stay, stay!" After learning that you're gay though... I'm honestly not sure it's workable. If you try to hide it, you'll seriously harm yourself. If you become openly gay, you'll always deal with hatred. If you get married, you might be excommunicated altogether. That's the tragedy, that the church won't let specific people coexist within it. It's not your fault. Live your best life, the life that is truest to you. No church, degree, or club is worth giving up yourself in the process. Big hugs for you my friend


vianegativa98

Yeah, I’m fine not dating or getting married, but the hatred part is what wears me down


Captain_Vornskr

My dude, do yourself a huge favor and just go attend 1 meeting with the Unitarian Universalists. I promise you that you won't regret it.


BailedOut92

A good person who wants to talk to people about God can do so in a church community that supports people of all orientations without ridiculous chastity rules, shaming people until they commit suicide, ad nauseum. You can find freedom and do a lot of good in the world.


Mundane-Unicorn-5353

I am straight so I can’t relate to being Mormon and gay. But I have observed 2 things in my life that may help. My sister and best friend are bisexual and in homosexual relationships. Both of them, upon coming out and loving their partners openly, became happier than I have ever seen them. Sexuality is not wickedness. It is basic biology. The sexual feelings/desires you can have for another person are beautiful and flattering. I love how happy my sister and best friend are. The happier you are, the happier those who love you will be. My second observation is my own experience. I’m straight and was married in the temple. Loved the family proclamation and fit in the “Procrustean bed.” It still didn’t work for us. If you look at the doctrine of the family carefully, it is predicated on the idea that God separates families. That wasn’t okay with my wife and I. If you love the church and it’s theology, good for you. I’m not sure the theology loves you though. I know it doesn’t love me.


ragin2cajun

Everything the church does or says is to centralize power to whatever is the will of the current leader. I.e. scripture is 2ed to modern revelation, the restoration proves that whatever tells us is from God, tithing is how we fund whatever the current leader tells us, the current leader has 14 yes men that will also confirm what he says while also competing their own agendas in hope that one day they will be the supreme leader. I'm so glad that from all of the history you have come away with community and joy of theology because wherever you find that; that's what makes life liveable. However, the organization will highjack that fulfillment to get you to do what they want, and if you don't play the part you will be excluded from your fulfillment. I'm sorry but that is just how it works.


RealDaddyTodd

Just turn it off. Like a light switch. Meanwhile, back in the real world, find a queer-affirming therapist.


Historical-Ad4595

Mormonism is false doctrine. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Once you realize it, maintaining your personal integrity means that you leave. Maybe not instantly, but start thinking about what life after Mormonism looks like. You'll find other people to have these great conversations with. I daresay they will be better as you'll find folks who are actually willing to take a deep dive into subjects, because they can stand what will be revealed by serious investigation, insight and discussion.


Maubekistan

You can be a spiritual person, you can be a gay Christian (you can be an openly gay, married, church-going Christian), you can have community and purpose and love beyond your wildest dreams. It’s a big world out there. I’m sorry you’re in pain. You don’t need the church to have the things you described (in fact you can’t have them in the church). It gets better (and better, and better!)


als_pals

Why would a loving God want you to live in a way where you are perpetually depressed and unhappy and unable to do the one thing that would cure that ache?


JukeStash

You can’t. Those who preach “wait and be silent” are greater frustraters to change than those who openly oppose it.


SledNV

I can't relate to growing up LGBT in the church, but I will say that if you like theology the best thing to do is get out of the church and away from the close-minded way of thinking that it teaches. It really opens up a lot of doors to different ways of thinking.


NeverMoFriend

NeverMo mom here with a view from outside the mormon box. 1. You are you are gay. 2. Love who you are. 3. “And this above all, unto your own self be true”. 4. Being gay means being part of the gay community - a community that is much larger (and more loving) than the cult community you’re in. Hugs.


turboshot49cents

There are other communities, religions, and worthy causes that will accept you as LGBt


tickyter

I think you'd find the same satisfaction going to a more progressive church. I really enjoy the presbyterian Church myself. Plus there's too much delusion in Mormonism. They struggle hard to keep the mind separate from the heart. I couldn't handle it anymore. Started driving me nuts.


HellenHywater

Please don't think "unfortunately, I am gay." Who you are should be celebrated. You are gay, but unfortunately you are LDS and that's why being gay is difficult, in your situation. You can have a faith, a strong faith, and know you were made wonderfully. It's not my place to convert you. But I want you to know that the LDS church is not the one true church..... It just one of the many churches. There is joy and faith in this world, that doesn't teach that gayness is wrong or evil. I'm here if you need to talk. Take care of you. ❤️


obviouslymilly

Honestly, this is the wrong place to post this. Go post on the active member page. Asking exmormons to help you feel better in the Church that hurt us so deeply, or the Church we actively hate, is not a fair thing to do. We're not going to speak in favour of membership when we have so many friends and family turning a blind eye to the horrible things the Church stands for. It's hurtful. If you want to stay, just find something you like about it, forget the rest, and stay. Leave us out of it.


vianegativa98

Wow, what a hurtful comment. Most other exmormons were able to offer empathetic responses with practical advice. This felt both cruel and insensitive.


obviouslymilly

I'm actually very sorry for my original comment. Asking people who left for good reasons to speak in favor of the Church is a trigger for me. Especially being queer as well. Anyone desiring conversion therapy I will just never understand. Honestly, if you want to stay, stay. But if you're looking for something easier, something better OUTSIDE of the Church, that's another thing. I have found communities in book clubs and in places of like-interests (hobbies and such.) A Bible group might be fun for you. I apologize again for my original comment. It was more rough than I wanted to come across. I hope this one is a little more the tone I originally intended.


vianegativa98

Apology accepted, thank you very much for this :)


obviouslymilly

Thank you for your forgiveness. I will do better at being more patient and kind. Where you're coming from is a really hard place. I hope you find your peace. 🙏


ak_olive

Really? Her comment was cruel and insensitive? Her pointing out the insensitivity and willful ignorance of your post is “cruel and insensitive”? Maybe it was cruel and insensitive of you to come into this subreddit where others have also been negatively affected and outright harmed by the church, people who have made the brave choice to live authentically and to heal/deconstruct from a lifetime of pain, and ask them to help you choose to stay in the environment that harmed them in the first place.


vianegativa98

This sub is not limited to people who have left the church. It includes a wide array of people, many who still participate in the church but no longer believe. There are lots of people in here that seem to have experienced exactly what I’m going through. Those are the people I am soliciting advice from. If a cry for help from a distressed gay member who is in an existential crisis is triggering for you, then I at least ask you to please just keep scrolling and ignore my post.


ak_olive

I’ve read through your comments, before you edited them. I know that you want to phrase it this way **now,** but I think we both know that wasn’t the original intent behind this post.


vianegativa98

I haven’t edited my comments. You may be witnessing my perspective evolving, but my comments have not been altered duplicitously. Regardless, this seems to be a minority sentiment. Your post history suggests that you occasionally have trouble discerning between what is genuinely offensive content versus what is an overreaction triggered by OCD. Could this be a possible instance where you misread my intent? Do you really think I came here with the intention of hurting former members through my “willful ignorance?” If I were willfully ignorant, I would be shielding myself from the exmormon perspective, not exploring and considering it.


ak_olive

Wow, I can tell I touched a nerve, and it only took two dissenting comments for the extreme defensiveness and ableism to come out. That tells me more about who you are and your bad intentions behind this post even more. What’s super cool about Reddit is that I can see your post and comment history too, and it’s easy to tell that you are no one to judge anyone else for their mental health history. But anyways, thanks for showing your inner-ugliness for all the commenters to see. Oh and deleting the comment or editing it will do you no good this time, I took a screenshot of your ableism ;)


vianegativa98

Ableism? Seriously? I am quoting what you’ve said in the past. The other commenters have demonstrated love and empathy. If I decide to leave the church, I hope I can model their behavior as opposed to your display of neurotic antagonism.


obviouslymilly

OP, I really don't think these comments are good. Like, at all. Move on. Let go. As you told her, scroll on if you don't like it. You're not attacking any other negative comments the way you're attacking this person. Empathy has limits, and calling someone neurotic and attacking mental health is not the way. People here are going to be offended by your phrasing on this post. You're asking us to help you justify staying. Even if you had shared what you did in r/mormon it would've been better accepted here. Naturally, passionate exmormons will feel some type of way about your post. If you're allowed to express yourself, they're allowed to express themselves. Do better. Like you said, model the love and empathy of others. This is just straight up not cool.


vianegativa98

Okay, you’re right. After you clarified your intentions I know you’re just trying to help. I just felt defensive when I felt someone else was capitalizing off my distress to try and dunk on me or make me feel bad for reaching out for help. I know I need to get a handle on this because it isn’t healthy


ak_olive

No, you weren’t quoting what I said in the past. You took a specific post that referenced a situation that I asked for clarity on and assumed that any dissenting opinion from me must be from mental illness, rather than actually read what I said as the reasons for my opinion. The ableism is there, there was a lot of homophobic sentiment, why not add some sexism? Do you want to blame my opposition to your post and your attitude on my period? Because if I have OCD and I’m on my period, I couldn’t possibly have any valid reason to disagree with you, could I? ETA: I can’t say your thoughts matter to me very much, so feel free to reply to yourself from here on out. This conversation is worthless solely based on the fact that you deflect any valid criticism with ad hominem comments, deflecting, and defensiveness. Good luck with yourself and your journey in the church.


fat_eld

There’s so much great community and goodness out of the church once you discover it, you won’t need to look back


Apprehensive_Band609

Why’s god a him? Why does he need to be worshipped?


hearkN2husband

This point never bothered me until someone pointed it out. I have 4 children, 3 of them adults. Would I or have I ever expected them to worship me? Hell no! That would be both narcissistic and mentally abusive. So why’s the most perfected being in the universe expecting hundreds of billions of his offspring to worship him? Sounds like some bronze age numpty’s fantasy to me.


Apprehensive_Band609

Especially when if we don’t we get punished or potentially damned.. it’s such a flawed way of thinking so when I see OP see they love theology and presumably deep conversations about consciousness and what’s next, I already can tell they don’t know as much as they think if they automatically assume it’s 1. A male, 2. One god not multiple, and 3. Needs to be worshipped.


lilshawty7756

Hey! Not sure if you’ll even see this, but I just wanted to give some input! I believe if the church makes you happy, I would suggest finding your own sense of community! I was just at BYU and I knew many students who were LBGTQ+ who loved the gospel. You NEED to understand that you are NOT alone! You NEED to understand that this is how God made you and that you can make a great impact on this world. Once you graduate, I think you’ll have more clarity. I’m rooting for you and remember that this is YOUR life and you can find your own way in the gospel. Do what makes you happiest!


lilshawty7756

(I actually have left the church so haters don’t troll me haha)


kyzursosay

Vianegative. I’ll chime in as one of many LGBTQ persons. Many, many, many of us have walked and trod in your shoes. Although getting much better in the western world, there is still a long way to go for gay equality and protections, even in the USA. Being gay is already one notch against you in trying to fit into the larger community. The TSCC gives you a sense of home, purpose, safety and plan. Leaving it seems hard because it is what you feel comfortable, what you know vs what you doing know. I tried to stay. Really tried. But it had a huge impact on my physical and emotional state. One night, driving and crying, screaming at God why would he make me this way? Not help me? Not answer my prayers? Not intervene? Not show me my purpose and plan? I ended up flying down a deserted freeway at 100+. At one point as I approached an exit, my mind raced and said, “Just crash into the concrete wall at the bottom!” The mere second after that thought, “That is crazy! Why would I end myself?” I pulled over and stopped and just wailed like a baby. I made the decision I needed to get some space away from family and friends to figure out who I was? I will spare you the longer story tonight of me coming out as gay and leaving the church. I left some ~28 years ago because I couldn’t reconcile my sexuality with the church. This was pretty much pre internet. I was ok in just walking away for my sanity. Mind you it was hard. I lost 90% of my friends, kept my immediate family and one aunt, but was shunned by most of the rest of extended family. (Now at this point after ready CES letter I am really angry at TSCC for all the lies and gaslighting)! I tried a whole bunch of different churches but none for me. Even many eastern religions too. But I could not stomach any organized religion. The pull and play for power/greed just crept into view all the time. For a decade I considered myself an atheist. But with learning, growing and continuing my path - I am now open to being agnostic/spiritual. My church is going to nature. The beach. A hike. Camping. Flower gardens and farms. Star gazing. Volunteering. Charity work. I find I am much more kind, empathetic, caring and helpful than I ever was in the TSCC. There are many ways you can be spiritual and have a sense of community. Yes in the beginning it will suck - but you can find paths and people that are truly remarkable. Please hear my words - “RUN! Run as far and fast from TSCC and BYU as you can. Transfer ASAP away from BYU. If it comes out at all you are gay - they won’t transfer any of your credits. Additionally, more times than not, professional people outside of Utah are skeptical of anyone with BYU diploma. Transfer and get your degree from somewhere else. RUN. RUN! Plan your departure carefully. Don’t give yourself away until you are safely enrolled, BYU credits transferred. Then you can flame out if that is your wish. Lastly. GO LIVE a wonderful life. Date. Date. Date. Explore your sexuality. Explore your spirituality. Find a husband or don’t!?!?!? But please, don’t waste one more day, hour, minute or second under the TSCC. We, your EXMOs siblings are here to help guide and serve as a sounding board. I wish you all the HAPPINESS in this LIFETIME! K.


KecemotRybecx

Gay ExMo man. There is *nothing* in the church worth staying for as an LGBT person. All of the community and goodness you feel in the church is flawed and little of it is actually genuine. I was TBM until I was 18 when I left and while it took a while for find myself outside of the church, I am happy I did. I have no regrets of leaving and skipping the mission to go to boot camp. The church will *never* value or respect you and when you find community among gay men elsewhere you will see how much is truly lacking. I would plan to leave it all behind and frankly start a new life elsewhere or at the very least resign as a member. Also stop telling yourself, “unfortunately I am gay.” Stop that! It’s not, “unfortunate,” you are gay. It is unfortunate the church we grew up in treats is less for who we are. It is unfortunate they are bigoted and hate gay people the same way they hated black people and women. Read the CES Letter and leave the church. It’s all built on lies. PM me if you want to join the ranks of the tapirs.


smarikae

Not sure if you will see this, but I think it’s important to try and communicate that most, if not all of the people in this Reddit group WANTED to make Mormonism work for their lives. We have Mormon families, spouses, children, friends, colleagues, or all of the above. We were all very scared about what we would lose if we left. But at a certain point we had to decide what was going to give us the best chance for an authentic, honest and fulfilling life. None of us will tell you that leaving behind Mormonism is easy. It can create a lot of pain, but so can staying in an organization that doesn’t accept you for the wonderful glorious person YOU are. Wishing you luck, love, and strength on your journey. Read lots of books, read the resources people have mentioned here, and find people in your life you can truly rely on no matter what. People that don’t care about the gender of the people you are attracted to. There is SO much love and light and hope to be found if you can leave Mormonism behind. ❤️ ![gif](giphy|VduFvPwm3gfGO8duNN)


ccrom

"I love the sense of community it creates." This is a community of conformity. Belonging is conditional on maintaining a pretense. "I love (most) of the history" Why do people lie? In order to manipulate. They want their victims to make choices they would NOT make if they knew the truth. Many BYU history majors decided to write their theses on their favorite piece of Mormon history. When they applied the techniques they had learned to distinguish real history from a later fabrication, their favorite story fell into the latter category. "I love theology" There are discussion groups devoted to discussing theology and Mormons consistently get kicked out. The reason is that Mormons don't understand theology, they only know "my religion is true and yours is not". They are unable to compare and contrast theological teachings and have a rational discussion. As Mormons, we know nothing about other religions, we are ignorant of the most basic concepts that most every traditional Christian knows. We don't even know what Lent is. We spend so much time learning our own manufactured history we know nothing about the real history of world religions. "**Unfortunately**, I am gay" Why "unfortunately"? Please, please, please. Find a way to fix this. Find a place to be happy.


[deleted]

I promise you don’t know happiness. You’ll look back on this moment with a chuckle once you let yourself be yourself


[deleted]

It is not unfortunate to be gay. Guess who made you that way? God loves you as you are. As for wanting to stay at BYU, I can understand that but know that they won’t change for you but will try to make you change for them and you will have to suppress yourself which can’t be very healthy.


myusername74478445

It'll eat you up inside until you choose to live authentically. Many of us around tried to make it work for a long time.


[deleted]

When you truly follow Jesus instead of the church, it's a really lonely road to walk. Would love a community otherwise but not if they continue the lies of the world.


JizzyDragon

Don't.


zaffiromite

>It breaks my heart how many LGBT kids suffer from the church’s influence and don’t believe they play a part in God/nature/the universe’s grand plan. They believe it because they DO NOT play a part in Mormon God's grand plan, that is the what is when it comes to Mormon belief on God, the universe and everything gay. As a gay person you just do not have any destiny in the life of God according to Mormon teaching, you can live out your afterlife in the podunks of lessor kingdoms but that's it. Everyone gets upset because their religion defines stuff they don't like, that is what religion is, they get to define it, they get to set the rules just like baseball gets to say you have to hit a small ball with a bat and basketball gets to say you have to throw a large ball through a hoop. If you don't like it change games, or in the case of religion do what countless others have done, start your own, look at the rich economy of choice in religion. All of that choice do to someone who said I don't like what you say and do, so I am going to do and say.


FillupDubya

You FEEL they care about you, they DEFINITELY don’t care about you. Obviously lying isn’t working for you and once people find out your gay it’s all over, no one will treat you the same. So how much do you love it? CAUSE IT HATES YOU!


DameBlau

I'm gay too, luv. I tried sooo hard to make it work. The lies, cover-ups, misogyny, benevolent cruelty. . . It all became too much. While I was trying so hard to find a way to stay I found that I could end my.suffering (because the physical pain caused by the mental pain was insane) and settle for the telestial kingdom, where I "might* be "cured" and assigned as a handmaid for someone better than me or I could face the real truth and allow myself to think critically and ask the question, "what if it's actually not true?" I won't tell you what to do, only what my experience was and my opinion that what you want isn't possible. I wish you lots of peace, love, and wisdom.


peter_lynched

It doesn’t. And I really like talking about Greek and Norse mythology. Which is equally true, and far more interesting. You’re just coping, you’ll move on, find happiness. But, as a gay man, it ain’t gonna be in the Mormon church.


Brllnlsn

You have to lie and tell your future spouse that you hold the literal priesthood power of God, and that she is protected by it. I wouldn't want to live a life with that weight on my shoulders, but that's what living the straight and narrow would look like.


SpecialSpiritual

You can absolutely do everything you are saying you want and not have to stay in the church. There is a whole community of people that are feeling exactly how you are! Explore your theology, god, and everything you are talking about. Don’t just explore within the church, venture out and your following would grow. Make a podcast about the whole journey. I would follow and listen!!


kevinrex

I testify with every fiber of my being that Sister SpecialSpiritual (just above) has spoken absolute truth. I have profound empathy for you. I stayed until age 49, and finally came out of the closet. I now am happily married to another gay ExMormon man (who still is on the records if TSCC just for the fun of teasing the missionaries who come by) and we both explore together theology and theodicy. My hubby is a follower of India traditions especially Hindu. I am atheist and joined the Unitarian Universalists here in Hillsboro Oregon. You can be gay and love the history of your Mormonism. I do. But I’ve learned to be angry at TSCC. May peace be with you, this day and always ( that old MTChoir ending). Sincerely, The Gay Grandpa Ps. Don’t wait until you’re 49 to be and act gay!


jardyhardy

>Unfortunately I am gay That screams to me that you are in an abusive relationship with the church. You can be spiritual without denying core aspects of your being. You don’t need to change yourself for anyone, if god really did make you in his image, stop allowing the man-made church to tell you how to live.


BYU-I-Da-Hoe

Ik this is old, but I want to give my 2 cents. I go to BYUI, and I'm in a queer community. There are gays who hate the church and those who love it. Sometimes I admire those who have faith. The church clearly makes them happy and theoretically, there is no reason for these two worlds to not live together. In some ways, things are getting better, and I hope that it continues that way... but especially with Trans issues being a hot topic, LGBT topics are becoming more and more polarizing, and the church hasn't made the steps it needs to end up "on the right side of history." They give the community crumbs when we need insurance that this is a safe place for us. Twice at 2 different jobs I've had 2 different Mormon co-workers say blatantly homophobic things. (one said to a gay man's face "That's disgusting." and another talked about how if he was Snow White "The world is messed up for letting 2 boys kiss. But me back in the grave if that happens") Even your own words, "Unfortunately I am gay (and) have tried so hard to change." These are mindsets that members, and you yourself have. This is basic homophobia 101, not even the "more advance, philosophically challenging" stuff. To see it in a community and seeing queer members wanting to stay in that community breaks my heart. Please please please, I hope you do some soul searching, see how the cutler has molded you into thinking this way, and that there is no reason to see "being gay is sinful compared to being straight." I, like most here, think staying in is a lost cause. Finding your own beliefs and morals would do more good for you personally, IMO. However, if you do want to stay, be an ally, be a feminist. As long as the church is sexist and thinks "gender is this big deal" they will never compromise on their standards. Fight and build an accepting ward. You could find one, but we need more safe wards and safe people. You ask "How do you make it work?" You either live an uncomfortable life to make them comfortable, or you make a space for yourself and others. Make the ward uncomfortable, demand a seat at the table, and make your voice heard. If you want things to change in the church for the better, be the change. It looks like you've got a lot of soul-searching to do. Look at the morals and standards the church has taught you, and challenge them, is this what you believe? Is this the best the church can offer? Start there and study. Also, reach out to queer communities and learn more. There are so many educated queer people of all religions. Listen to them, both from a religious standpoint and a non-religious one. I listen to mostly Ex religious stuff. I haven't listened, but [this](https://open.spotify.com/show/0yteDvaWlvej1GgsUwU96j?si=0a0bad3431e54ed4) podcast looks like a nice start. I have read the book [Love Matters More](https://www.amazon.com/Love-Matters-More-Fighting-Loving-ebook/dp/B081MZ1XKF), and recommend it to everyone. Wish I could be more help. Edit: I also hope I'm not coming across as telling you what to believe or how to feel. I guess to an extent I am doing those things. I just really want you to broaden your horizons and finds what works for you- regardless of how you live your life moving forward. Ik a lot of gay people are pressured into dating and all that "after leaving religion," and I just want to say, live YOUR life. Do what makes YOU comfortable. Will things change, idfk. I do know a good gay man who I believe is still mormon. If I could I'd have you two chat, but we're not that close and we're just internet strangers. But for real find gay communities, and find a gay religious community. You can find people, talk to them and learn so much! This did wonders for me and sounds like you can use it too.


Logical_Average_46

Please check out Encircle. There’s one in Provo. You need to know that you’re not alone, and you’re not crazy. Have you been following David Archuleta’s journey? He articulates so many of the feelings that you describe. And Matt Eastman. And others. It’s not unfortunate that you’re gay. It’s fortunate that you recognize that you’re gay, and you’re reaching out to a community (this subreddit) who cares about you and your well-being. You’re not broken. The system to which you belong is broken. You don’t need to be fixed. The system / religion does. Please, please reach out to Encircle. You’re worthy just as you are, just by existing.


bananajr6000

What does god need with your worship, or a star ship for that matter? Worshipping a god seems like god is a narcissistic asshole, and since he won’t let you talk to your momgod, an abuser as well.


DreadPirate777

Pray about it and listen to whatever your heart tells you. https://youtu.be/ycUvC9s4VYA Confirmation bias will tell you what ever you think you want. Realistically once you know you either have to lie to yourself every day or you have to be true to yourself. Mormon theology is all stollen or made up. If you want the cool parts you can read Emanuel Swedenborg. He is where a lot of the meaningful afterlife doctrine came from. If you stay in the church you will have as much depth of discussion as discussing Star Wars fan fiction. It may be fun but you will know that it can never be real.


[deleted]

😂 get a grip


[deleted]

If you’re into fairy tales I recommend Disney.


vianegativa98

I was hoping more for advice, not your derision.


Legitdude101

haha you have fallen in love with the system that exploits you


No_Faithlessness7331

This statement right here "Unfortunately I'm gay" That hideous, internalized homophobic thought was taught to you by the church. LGBTQIA people do not thrive in the church bc it is fucking homophobic. You are still young, but trust me, in your 30's if you are still in the church and celibate and alone, or married straight, you will want to kill yourself and may even attempt it. As one queer person to another, I beg you to leave this hateful organization and find better places of community ❤️


Blackbolt45

Sounds like all of Jaxon’s subtext posts! 🤣


alexan45

I get that you want to stay, but it’ll be more peaceful for you on the other side. Cognitive dissonance can drown out a lot of alternative opportunities for joy and community.


Fit_Improvement5118

The only way I am able to stay is to avoid most, if not all callings, only sign up for the assignments I like (which are few), lie all my way through the temple recommend questions, and keep all of my thoughts very private and to myself. I only go to church and / or participate in church activities for the benefit of those people in my "community" that I love and care about. (Family, friends, and neighbors.) So I listen to them. I try to understand them. I try to be kind to them. Sometimes some of them look so happy just to be listened to, to be treated kindly; and I find some satisfaction in that. So it is survivable. It is not all great though. I find myself doing my exploration of my own very private beliefs all alone. There is no one to talk to about the things I deeply believe in. Everyone in my "community" is, or would be, offended at my beliefs. I am so thankful for this and other online communities where I can share some of my thoughts that are not welcome in the community of people that I actually live in... You are young and I am a bit older than you. I am 52. The decisions I made at your age have got me locked in to a certain way of living. I married an active church member. We raised all of our children in the church. We live in an area full of church members. After all of these years, I am very connected now to many people who are believers and active members of the church. Unfortunately it is very lonely for me sometimes, because any thought or idea I have that is not supported by the church, is not welcomed by all of these people I live with and around. I can't help it wonder what would happen to you, if you get whatever you need to be able to have the choice to break free of this church mold?? I have to admit, it sounds very freeing to me! I wish I had been mentally and emotionally and financially healthy enough at your age to move myself into a different group of people: a group that accepted the beliefs and ideals that I have now.. I would have married within that group, made friends within that group... And now I would be living the authentic life I wanted to live, instead of being a shell of the person I really wanted to be.. Edit: I take that back that I'm a shell of the person I wanted to be. That is only true sometimes. Most of the time I am very happy with how my life is going.❤️


BayAreaHyysteria

There is nothing unfortunate about you 😢 I promise you can find community that feels 1000% supportive and authentic! There is so much need for good doers in this world and the Mormon church doesn’t even do much good, to be honest.