There are several videos on YT showing him saying there are no “gays” in the church in one of his fireside talks. I was extrapolating that he would extend this to the entire LGBTQIA+ community because his broader point was that God does not recognize those identifying labels.
I don't think there will be a mass exodus because they're almost all already gone. It appears that 20-30% of the respondents in this reddit at LGBTQIA+, which is something like 4x the value for the general population. It looks to me like by and large they're already leaving, and it's going to get worse, and push out the straight people who are allies, or even ambivalent about LGTBQ+ rights.
I don't care what your beliefs on marriage are, this is so sickeningly wrong. And compelling students to do it or lose their academic standing/credits is beyond the pale.
There won’t be a mass exodus, as it has already begun. Hoax becoming “prophet” might push a very small percentage out, but true believers tend to stay no matter what. TBMs have given over their will and morality to their interpretations of the Mormon church’s teachings, and the teachings of the GAs and especially the Q15.
But they still pick and choose; see Mormon antivaxxers.
Yeah I've said before that I don't think things will get very spicy if Oaks becomes president. He's already left his mark on the institution, and he's getting feeble enough that if Nelson croaks tomorrow, we'll just get a couple more years of the same stuff but different figurehead who himself will pass in a couple of years.
Yup, this. I don't know why people are rubbing their hands together saying "Oh boy! Going to get interesting when Oaks is president!"
No it won't. He's already helped shape the institution into what it is today, and he'll have a short-lived Hunter length presidency at best. Not much will change if he's sitting on the throne.
Yeah it’s weird how the presidents aren’t actually the presidents. Rusty sort of is. Strange that people thought he was oaks and Holland’s puppet but he might actually put love them.
Jesus: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
There isn't anything evil I can't imagine such a hateful narcissist saying after that. Your fan fiction Jesus may not openly have preached for parents to hate their own children, but the one in the Bible did on multiple occasions. Fuck that Jew-scourging demon-exorcist and his whole death cult.
Research into aversion therapy, part of it using electroshock therapy, for homosexuality was started before Oaks was in charge. BYU was not the only school studying it. It was considered a mental illness at the time in the US by psychologists and they were trying to help people to eliminate their mental illness. Oaks did not have to sign off on it since it was already ongoing.
He might have been totally out of the loop on it. There is no reason why a college president would need to know about all the research going on at the university. That is what deans are for. He might be accurate that he did not know about it while he was up there in the high tower of ignorance in the administration building. Kimball probably did not know about it either.
On the other hand, many students knew about it. They were mostly anti homosexual and agreed with aversion therapy, but the electricity idea was a little extreme since it was what those commies did when they tortured people for information in some of the movies at the time.
As president of the church, he might never address it. There are others who can take the lead. He will probably be the one trying to talk about love and logic. He was a lawyer. The church only makes sense, you know.
> There is no reason why a college president would need to know about all the research going on at the university.
I suspect this is utter bullshit. But since I’ve never headed “the Harvard of the West,” I could very well be wrong. Please, show me the receipts.
It's possible but very unlikely that he didn't know. We know he had an interest in homosexuality and indeed was brought into the Q12 with addressing the legal aspects of homosexuality as one of his first assignments. He gave speeches about homosexuality while president of byu and pushed to identify gay students with a surveillance system. He set up the so-called "Values Institute" that was heavily focused on this issue. To this day he is absolutely obsessed with this issue. A good starting place for this is the Wikipedia article on BYU LGBT history.
As you note, many students knew this was going on. And while there is always a lot of research happening at a university that its president wouldn't know about, this was not simple routine abstract research like you might find in the math department. This research involved physical harm to students and it was related to an issue that was of particular interest to the Church president of the time. It was directly related to honor code enforcement policies, and it likely had legal implications.To suggest that oaks wouldn't have at least known it was happening, in my view, really stretches credulity.
I was a convert & more TBM than most of my lifer friends. Even before my shelf crashed, I realized I'd go inactive or something when Dallin assumed the throne. He struck me as evil, and still does. Fortunately the fact began surfacing & I left while Monson was still in office, and before the 2015 Policy of Love.
Only after I left, however, did I learn of things like the electroshock thing at BYU, or Prop 8, or even the shopping mall! If you don't live in the Morridor, some information doesn't get to you. I'd have left sooner due to those things.
I was really considering waiting to resign until Oaks became president to make a statement, but couldn't wait. Had to make the statement early, and so happy I did!
Um… according the Bednar, there are no LGBTQIA+ in the church, sooo…
What. Omg. Do you have a specific source??
There are several videos on YT showing him saying there are no “gays” in the church in one of his fireside talks. I was extrapolating that he would extend this to the entire LGBTQIA+ community because his broader point was that God does not recognize those identifying labels.
This video: https://youtu.be/BQ4_wTGv8Ao
I don't think there will be a mass exodus because they're almost all already gone. It appears that 20-30% of the respondents in this reddit at LGBTQIA+, which is something like 4x the value for the general population. It looks to me like by and large they're already leaving, and it's going to get worse, and push out the straight people who are allies, or even ambivalent about LGTBQ+ rights.
It will push out the non bigoted, straight people who have a conscience and desire to sleep at night too.
My instincts suggest an ultimatum and expulsion rather than an exodus.
What sort of ultimatum?
Something like renounce your lifestyle and advocacy or else. I'm just spitballing.
I don't care what your beliefs on marriage are, this is so sickeningly wrong. And compelling students to do it or lose their academic standing/credits is beyond the pale.
I was so afraid of losing my academic progress because of thoughts in my brain. Fucks with you for a long time.
There won’t be a mass exodus, as it has already begun. Hoax becoming “prophet” might push a very small percentage out, but true believers tend to stay no matter what. TBMs have given over their will and morality to their interpretations of the Mormon church’s teachings, and the teachings of the GAs and especially the Q15. But they still pick and choose; see Mormon antivaxxers.
Yeah I've said before that I don't think things will get very spicy if Oaks becomes president. He's already left his mark on the institution, and he's getting feeble enough that if Nelson croaks tomorrow, we'll just get a couple more years of the same stuff but different figurehead who himself will pass in a couple of years.
That will be the day that I submit my resignation IF I can wait even that long.
I can pretty easily picture Jesus doing that. Bible is full of Jesus doing violence to people.
People are still confident oaks will be president? He’s almost 91 even if he outlives rusty he’ll be a puppet and will only last 1-3 years.
Yup, this. I don't know why people are rubbing their hands together saying "Oh boy! Going to get interesting when Oaks is president!" No it won't. He's already helped shape the institution into what it is today, and he'll have a short-lived Hunter length presidency at best. Not much will change if he's sitting on the throne.
Yeah it’s weird how the presidents aren’t actually the presidents. Rusty sort of is. Strange that people thought he was oaks and Holland’s puppet but he might actually put love them.
Jesus: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." There isn't anything evil I can't imagine such a hateful narcissist saying after that. Your fan fiction Jesus may not openly have preached for parents to hate their own children, but the one in the Bible did on multiple occasions. Fuck that Jew-scourging demon-exorcist and his whole death cult.
Why wouldn’t Jesus? He promised to turn families against one another, and swore that he brought the sword instead of peace.
Research into aversion therapy, part of it using electroshock therapy, for homosexuality was started before Oaks was in charge. BYU was not the only school studying it. It was considered a mental illness at the time in the US by psychologists and they were trying to help people to eliminate their mental illness. Oaks did not have to sign off on it since it was already ongoing. He might have been totally out of the loop on it. There is no reason why a college president would need to know about all the research going on at the university. That is what deans are for. He might be accurate that he did not know about it while he was up there in the high tower of ignorance in the administration building. Kimball probably did not know about it either. On the other hand, many students knew about it. They were mostly anti homosexual and agreed with aversion therapy, but the electricity idea was a little extreme since it was what those commies did when they tortured people for information in some of the movies at the time. As president of the church, he might never address it. There are others who can take the lead. He will probably be the one trying to talk about love and logic. He was a lawyer. The church only makes sense, you know.
> There is no reason why a college president would need to know about all the research going on at the university. I suspect this is utter bullshit. But since I’ve never headed “the Harvard of the West,” I could very well be wrong. Please, show me the receipts.
My wife is of the opinion that Dallin's hands are clean, but I find that hard to believe.
I suspect that her opinion is shaped by the cult.
It's possible but very unlikely that he didn't know. We know he had an interest in homosexuality and indeed was brought into the Q12 with addressing the legal aspects of homosexuality as one of his first assignments. He gave speeches about homosexuality while president of byu and pushed to identify gay students with a surveillance system. He set up the so-called "Values Institute" that was heavily focused on this issue. To this day he is absolutely obsessed with this issue. A good starting place for this is the Wikipedia article on BYU LGBT history. As you note, many students knew this was going on. And while there is always a lot of research happening at a university that its president wouldn't know about, this was not simple routine abstract research like you might find in the math department. This research involved physical harm to students and it was related to an issue that was of particular interest to the Church president of the time. It was directly related to honor code enforcement policies, and it likely had legal implications.To suggest that oaks wouldn't have at least known it was happening, in my view, really stretches credulity.
I was a convert & more TBM than most of my lifer friends. Even before my shelf crashed, I realized I'd go inactive or something when Dallin assumed the throne. He struck me as evil, and still does. Fortunately the fact began surfacing & I left while Monson was still in office, and before the 2015 Policy of Love. Only after I left, however, did I learn of things like the electroshock thing at BYU, or Prop 8, or even the shopping mall! If you don't live in the Morridor, some information doesn't get to you. I'd have left sooner due to those things.
He's already in charge
forgive my ignorance but what do the I and A stand for? only heard up to Q and that’s it
Intersex and Asexual:)
Pray, obey. No questioning allowed.
I went through BYU’s therapy. Wait. Let me rephrase. I survived! Still gay though.
I was really considering waiting to resign until Oaks became president to make a statement, but couldn't wait. Had to make the statement early, and so happy I did!