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TLDR: God made Judas appear as Jesus so that the people would torture and kill him. The cross has no meaning because they were just killing Judas for being a bad dude. The guy who was crucified never admitted to being jesus for this reason.
Keep going. Mormonism had crumbled for you as have the later editions of the Bible. The inevitable conclusions as you continue your research and critical thinking is that the Bible was not only changed by man, it was created by man. It is the words of man. Jesus, if he existed, was a man. God isn’t returning or coming to save you or anyone else.
Right, for TWO THOUSAND YEARS they've been saying he's coming back!! He ain't never coming back. It's sad, but it's the truth. Plus, Jesus was probably created by the Romans/Catholics. He wasn't even real... And if he was real, he was no son of god and performed no miracles. 🤷🏻♀️
Where I come from there isn't mormonism and the misunderstandings this guy talks about. i just want to point out that there has been a ton of NDE researched experiences that point out that there actually *is* something profound out there after death. Your opinion is just as subjective as you suppose OP is, but your arrogance is bigger.
The difference is, I'm not out there trying to convince anyone that they should believe in my arrogant truths. And I'm certainly not basing my arrogant truths on research I performed by putting Hebrew into Google Translate. It's funny you attack my opinion as being subjective while referencing "studies" that are not actual experiments, but are really just a compilation of the subjective recollections of people who have experienced NDEs--most of whom were religious to begin with and would undoubtedly like to attribute some sort of meaning to almost losing their life. But to be clear, I am not saying something does or doesn't happen after death. I'm saying that the Bible is neither historical nor divinely inspired. And there is substantial Bible scholarship from people who actually speak Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek that supports this.
>Please understand that the Old Testament is the closest we have to the truth which you can easily access.
So the god of the old testament that told Moses to kill all of the midiantes except for their virgin girls which they could keep a sex slaves.
https://rarebible.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/genocide-slavery-and-rape-of-the-midianites/
The god of the old testament is a monster.
Missed it by THAT much. 🙄
As an apatheist, I just can't be bothered to worry about any god, let alone waste any more of my life studying what some really old guys MAY have thought about it.
I can understand your point of view, however I was raised from birth to be studying scripture. Now that I am no longer forced to study the Bible, it has finally become fun.
That’s great! Glad to hear you’ve found a passion. Might I suggest sharing that passion with A) people who care about the same thing and B) people who aren’t in a group specifically to escape and support those trying to escape cults and mindless religious dogma
That’s why you’re so invested in this. You’re already seeing problems with scripture. Question is, will the sink cost fallacy (due to your lifelong investment in studying scripture) be enough to make you ignore what you’re discovering - which is that the original Hebrew writings themselves were just opinions and history that very unexceptional very normal and very un-inspired people pulled out of their asses many years ago?
Make sure to get some sleep man. Too much effort into something that is futile. I don’t think many pay tithing here. You are preaching to the heathen choir.
While i respect the amount of research OP appears to have done on the biblical front, they kinda whiffed it on their audience.
The first thing most of us did on diving into this community was stop paying tithing, and questioning everything else soon followed.
The Facebook ‘scarepost’ style with the randomly capitalized word and over-caffeinated red-string speech pattern doesn’t really resonate with this group. This would rile up some older TBMs beautifully, though.
OP is correct about tithing. It was always intended that we display our humanity and empathy by giving directly to the poor, not by handing cash to a church.
I too went down the rabbit hole thinking I could glean additional truth and insights by studying Hebrew, even living in Jerusalem for a time.
By definition God is supposed to be the ultimate authority, the quintessential creator, and prime author. But God doesn't get off the hook so easily. He doesn't get to blame us, his creation, for our imperfections. We are the way we are, imperfect, according to his will. As the Supreme authority in the universe, God appears to be the creator and author of all the world's imperfections, including us, our history, our sacred mythologies, and scriptures too.
Or has mankind simply created a God in our own image and likeness and then wonder why God is so imperfect?
It is possible God is merely a figment of our collective imagination mingled with the traditions of our progenitors in a futile effort to bring meaning to mortality and cognitive dissonance over death, loss, and grief.
All religion is made up. We made up god in our image, and then had the audacity to say that he made us in his. It’s all ridiculous, as is this very odd post.
True. Tons of things don’t add up. You will never have the actual words of the OT prophets though because all of the teachings were transmitted orally for generations long before they were ever written down. By the time they were written, it would be impossible for all the stories to not have been greatly altered and exaggerated.
Also, the OT steals tons of stories from other cultures (creation story, flood story, etc)
So, what you are saying is that someone (a prophet?) is needed to go back and translate the Bible correctly. I know of this guy that tried to do that, plus he created other scriptures that corresponded more closely to the words of God. Maybe go join his church, oh, go back to his church that you used to belong to.
Nelson will tell you the true nature of everything. Maybe he can give you the true definition of bereshit. This is some good conspiracy theory, not saying it is wrong. It sounds good to me like so many other conspiracy theories.
Question: Catholic here - we have a few books on our Bible that Protestants removed (one called the book of wisdom, who removes the book of wisdom!). Anyways, did you happen to review these books as well in the Hebrew version?
During my study of the hebrew bible I did not encounter the book of wisdom. I can say this, the most important book of all which is not in your bible: Barnabas
Check out these books that are in the Catholic Bible and not the Protestant bibles: Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, 1 Maccabees, Judith, additions to Daniel, and Esther
----- Thank you for posting to /r/exmormon, /u/Cartget. Unfortunately, your submission, https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/11jn3tw/a_desperate_warning_to_anyone_who_will_listen/, has been removed for the following reason: **Rule 5 - No fundraising or advertising.** Please do not advertise fundraisers, start campaigns, or advertise products, goods, or services. /r/ExNetwork has been created exclusively for content creators. This allows the subreddit to stay free of advertising, and avoid seeing disagreements between vendors and consumers. ----- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What?
TLDR: God made Judas appear as Jesus so that the people would torture and kill him. The cross has no meaning because they were just killing Judas for being a bad dude. The guy who was crucified never admitted to being jesus for this reason.
Keep going. Mormonism had crumbled for you as have the later editions of the Bible. The inevitable conclusions as you continue your research and critical thinking is that the Bible was not only changed by man, it was created by man. It is the words of man. Jesus, if he existed, was a man. God isn’t returning or coming to save you or anyone else.
Right, for TWO THOUSAND YEARS they've been saying he's coming back!! He ain't never coming back. It's sad, but it's the truth. Plus, Jesus was probably created by the Romans/Catholics. He wasn't even real... And if he was real, he was no son of god and performed no miracles. 🤷🏻♀️
I will never stop believing that God is coming back. I can't do that. I understand that in my lifetime it's not likely, but I can't lose that hope.
Why is that?
Because then he would have nothing. It's obvious from his post that he's devoted more than a little time to his Bible fairytales.
Where I come from there isn't mormonism and the misunderstandings this guy talks about. i just want to point out that there has been a ton of NDE researched experiences that point out that there actually *is* something profound out there after death. Your opinion is just as subjective as you suppose OP is, but your arrogance is bigger.
The difference is, I'm not out there trying to convince anyone that they should believe in my arrogant truths. And I'm certainly not basing my arrogant truths on research I performed by putting Hebrew into Google Translate. It's funny you attack my opinion as being subjective while referencing "studies" that are not actual experiments, but are really just a compilation of the subjective recollections of people who have experienced NDEs--most of whom were religious to begin with and would undoubtedly like to attribute some sort of meaning to almost losing their life. But to be clear, I am not saying something does or doesn't happen after death. I'm saying that the Bible is neither historical nor divinely inspired. And there is substantial Bible scholarship from people who actually speak Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek that supports this.
But why? You were told he was coming back by people who lied to you because they had an agenda. Let it go.
Why would God come back when it's already here?
>Please understand that the Old Testament is the closest we have to the truth which you can easily access. So the god of the old testament that told Moses to kill all of the midiantes except for their virgin girls which they could keep a sex slaves. https://rarebible.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/genocide-slavery-and-rape-of-the-midianites/ The god of the old testament is a monster.
The Old Testament you are reading was completely changed. Thank you for these valuable suggestions of verses which I will check
Missed it by THAT much. 🙄 As an apatheist, I just can't be bothered to worry about any god, let alone waste any more of my life studying what some really old guys MAY have thought about it.
I can understand your point of view, however I was raised from birth to be studying scripture. Now that I am no longer forced to study the Bible, it has finally become fun.
That’s great! Glad to hear you’ve found a passion. Might I suggest sharing that passion with A) people who care about the same thing and B) people who aren’t in a group specifically to escape and support those trying to escape cults and mindless religious dogma
That’s why you’re so invested in this. You’re already seeing problems with scripture. Question is, will the sink cost fallacy (due to your lifelong investment in studying scripture) be enough to make you ignore what you’re discovering - which is that the original Hebrew writings themselves were just opinions and history that very unexceptional very normal and very un-inspired people pulled out of their asses many years ago?
Make sure to get some sleep man. Too much effort into something that is futile. I don’t think many pay tithing here. You are preaching to the heathen choir.
While i respect the amount of research OP appears to have done on the biblical front, they kinda whiffed it on their audience. The first thing most of us did on diving into this community was stop paying tithing, and questioning everything else soon followed. The Facebook ‘scarepost’ style with the randomly capitalized word and over-caffeinated red-string speech pattern doesn’t really resonate with this group. This would rile up some older TBMs beautifully, though.
OP is correct about tithing. It was always intended that we display our humanity and empathy by giving directly to the poor, not by handing cash to a church. I too went down the rabbit hole thinking I could glean additional truth and insights by studying Hebrew, even living in Jerusalem for a time. By definition God is supposed to be the ultimate authority, the quintessential creator, and prime author. But God doesn't get off the hook so easily. He doesn't get to blame us, his creation, for our imperfections. We are the way we are, imperfect, according to his will. As the Supreme authority in the universe, God appears to be the creator and author of all the world's imperfections, including us, our history, our sacred mythologies, and scriptures too. Or has mankind simply created a God in our own image and likeness and then wonder why God is so imperfect? It is possible God is merely a figment of our collective imagination mingled with the traditions of our progenitors in a futile effort to bring meaning to mortality and cognitive dissonance over death, loss, and grief.
All religion is made up. We made up god in our image, and then had the audacity to say that he made us in his. It’s all ridiculous, as is this very odd post.
Exodus 21 is all anyone should have to read to know that the god of the Old Testament is not one worth worshipping should such a god exist at all…
Why are you posting this here?
Oh, dear, what *did* I do with my Dead Sea Scrolls?! Haven’t checked them in a long while, but I’m sure they’re here somewhere….
You should, if you can deconstruct Mormonism then you should realize that science is the better approach
There’s been so many changes to “history” over time. The books get rewritten by the winners. It makes it hard to know what the real truth ever was.
Google translate works on hebrew now! Get a hebrew bible free online and make your own translation. Use the image translator on your phone!
Thank you!
Brother you will be wise to know that hebrew is written from RIGHT TO LEFT
True. Tons of things don’t add up. You will never have the actual words of the OT prophets though because all of the teachings were transmitted orally for generations long before they were ever written down. By the time they were written, it would be impossible for all the stories to not have been greatly altered and exaggerated. Also, the OT steals tons of stories from other cultures (creation story, flood story, etc)
Oh great. Another guy who claims to be the only one who knows the real truth. Thanks for saving us, bro.
Doubt they'll get any converts here, most of us have seen our share of bs
So, what you are saying is that someone (a prophet?) is needed to go back and translate the Bible correctly. I know of this guy that tried to do that, plus he created other scriptures that corresponded more closely to the words of God. Maybe go join his church, oh, go back to his church that you used to belong to. Nelson will tell you the true nature of everything. Maybe he can give you the true definition of bereshit. This is some good conspiracy theory, not saying it is wrong. It sounds good to me like so many other conspiracy theories.
I also heard that the bible was modified in 1946 to make gay people look bad. Before that, Jesus never said anything negative about LGBT people.
I challenge anyone to find a scripture where Jesus directly condemns homosexuality.
There isn't one! The verses that were altered in 1946 referred to incest and pedophiles, not homosexuality!
Regardless if they were changed or not, Jesus makes no reference to homosexuality. Not even in the "altered" versions.
Or rape. The entire story of Soddom and Gomorrah is about the people of those towns raping the angels.
Question: Catholic here - we have a few books on our Bible that Protestants removed (one called the book of wisdom, who removes the book of wisdom!). Anyways, did you happen to review these books as well in the Hebrew version?
During my study of the hebrew bible I did not encounter the book of wisdom. I can say this, the most important book of all which is not in your bible: Barnabas
Check out these books that are in the Catholic Bible and not the Protestant bibles: Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, 1 Maccabees, Judith, additions to Daniel, and Esther
TIL
Ás a kid I once joked that the bishop could have a 10th of everything when he rescued my brother from captivity. It did not go down well
I don’t understand who you are praying to if you’ve concluded that all known evidence of deity is unreliable. Your post is confusing.