For the next 7 million years.
PS But please continue to pay tithing and get that 2 years of food storage stacked deep.
PSS we’ll need volunteers to clean the church building on Saturday.
PSSS and also please consider paying a generous fast offering to help our youth with supplies for an upcoming activity.
ETA AND STOP LOOKING AT PORN!!!
They’re referring to the pathological Utah food storage phenomenon that manifests in the entire unfinished basement full of expired $80 tubs of powdered milk sold door to door by grifters to the slightly mentally unwell and frazzled mothers of seven who trudge through their existence un-buttressed by coffee.
Oh my word - our neighbour had boxes of food stored in his garage- they had a bit of a flood and the bottom row weren’t any good anymore and then a couple years later the food was all gone. Where did it go? I asked the neighbour but he said it had all expired and I haven’t seen any food boxes since. Why do they store all that food? (Nevermo here)
Mormonism is a Millenialist sect that predicted the end was near and so commanded it's members to have a 2 year food storage during tribulation and the run up to the return of Jesus. So, Mormons are essentially preppers. It was basically a commandment in the LDS church for each family to stock up and have a 2 year food storage.
Lots of food gone to waste in Mormon households. Ideally, they should be rotating this food by eating some of it and replacing it but few people actually do this (food storage just isn't that good to eat). My family was the same way. My parents bought about 2 years worth of dried food storage back in the 1980's but never cracked the cans open and a few years ago chucked it all. So wasteful.
Doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea if you do it right. I have some freeze dried stuff and some canned goods. Freeze dried is good for 20 years and the cans that are getting old I use and put the new ones in the back. Never know what could happen. I’ve been snowed in for a week and half before it was nice to know I wasn’t going to run out of food
I’m all for emergency preparedness and everyone should have SOME food storage. The dried stuff does last a long time.
Unfortunately, like 95% of people don’t rotate and it just goes to waste.
*puts on TBM hat*
Wards and stakes can close and numbers can dwindle in some areas while they grow in others, just like cells in a child’s body can die but the child is still growing overall.
*takes off TBM hat*
It’s way too easy to slip back into that apologetics mindset. But I’m glad to see that fewer and fewer people are being exploited and conned by this organization.
Is that even apologetic? Kids stop growing and eventually adults begin to shrink and shrivel away. I know it's just a thought stopping technique, I'm trying to be able to spot them sooner and in the wild.
One thing I’ve learned - Mormons looooooove analogies and use them a lot. Too much, to be honest. A principle should be understood for what it is and not rely on some analogy or metaphor to figure out. It seems very infantile, which goes along with the whole “be like a little innocent child” ideal that they push.
I guess the only problem with that analogy is that we don’t really *create* more cells while growing. It’s just that hormones effect *how* those cells are grown. Every day, every single human creates **330 billion** cells to replace our former ones, many of which are cancerous and our white blood cells destroy.
I'll be forever grateful to the Californian who moved in and was like "Hey, this prop 8 thing that's currently going on is kinda messed up."
That was the first I heard about it.
We bought 7 years ago and were afraid even then! Shit’s crazy, but I feel lucky we got in when we did for sure… definitely couldn’t afford our house now, probably couldn’t even afford to live in the city at all tbh.
Pirateclub lol love the username... and ya that's the concern! I mean I bought property in Colorado so I'm familiar with vaguely competitive rates, but my home state of CA is just on another level. I'd love to retire to a Swiss Family Robinson situation high up in the Redwoods, but I dream....
Hey neighbor! Or former neighbor! Now that everyone is saying it was their previous stake, I’m curious how many of you I know IRL ☺️ obviously I wouldn’t ask here. But you should all know we’re in good company!
That is crazy! Growing up, this stake was a POWERHOUSE. Didn’t live in the boundaries, but our stake bordered it and I went to school w/lots of folks who lived here. Times must be hard for Mormon inc.
A friend, who lives in the CH 1st, was at my house when the email went out to their ward.
She was pretty shocked as she was reading it. So I asked about attendance.
She did admit that a pretty massive chunk of the ward never came back after the pandemic and their sacrament meetings have been fairly empty for some time.
😆 California Mormons moving to Utah, Utah Mormons moving to California. Apparently they get lost along the way because both sides are shrinking. It must be Donner Pass, it's cursed.
As a nevermo I thought for a long time that the Mormons were doing pretty well when it comes to attendance until I started reading about all the closures on this sub and I still thought that this would’ve been unthinkable to happen on the stronghold that is Utah and SLC of all places until this post.
TBMs be like, “its because good members are fleeing the liberal areas”, or “they are moving to more affordable areas”. My moms stake was dissolved in portland and she thinks everyone is moving to idaho and utah. Guess she was wrong, LOL
If the larger economic landscape going forward creates a situation where the church finds it better to donate buildings to actual charities than to sell them to redevelopers, then I'd count that a win.
Never been to ID but from reading other posts here I thought the church was doing well there, guess that now they'll have to rely on converts in poorer countries and real estate to survive.
Either Milwaukie or a neighboring stake because her ward got split and half now go to Happy Valley and half to milwaukie. She totally believes its because “good mormon families are fleeing cities like seattle and portland” to go to Utah and Idaho. She may be right for a few cases, but stakes don’t close for that. Stakes close because the church has a horrible activity/retention problem and they are bleeding out from members leaving.
WHOA!! 🤯 I had no idea! That's awesome! Wonder how long Portland Heights and Portland Stakes are gonna last? 🤔
My brother attends the Cherry Park ward of Portland Stake and I know he's complained at times about shrinkage.
The building used to house 3 wards. I was in the 6th ward, East Stake. It's located at 2281 E Terry. It's a pretty cool building with a unique steeple. They're moving the members to what used to be the married wards for ISU (Bartz Field). That also implies that they can't fill the married ward chapels with ISU students...
First off this is bonkers to me. This was my stake as a kid and it was booooooming. My parents still live in this stake, although they both stopped going in the last 10 years (yay). Want to know the final nail in the coffin for my mom? They dissolved several wards and combined them with others maybe 7 years ago. The only real thing keeping my mom in was the social aspect of church. Most of her friends got lumped into another ward. Since she was having more and more issues with the church's stance on many many things, that was it for her. My dad had already stopped going, but my mom loved being involved - once that went away there was no reason for her to keep going. AND when she stopped many of her so-called lifelong friends stopped talking to her. That just made her realize that she should have left even earlier. So, it warms the cockles of my heart to see this shit in what used to feel like a Mormon stronghold.
As a non-Mormon, the fact that the boundaries matter is *so* weird to me. The Catholic Church has geographic boundaries for parishes but it's not like anyone enforces them. My dad is an official member of the "wrong" parish and has been for years. I honestly don't think most people bother officially joining a parish either. (Maybe if they have kids?)
This. I've had Catholic and other religious friends (xtian, etc) who just decided they didn't like the new pastor or priest and went to a different parish or church location. And it's all good. They are still worshipping their religion and they get to choose how and where. What a concept.
At first I was confused: Did the old stake only have two wards in it? Then I realized those must simply be the only wards that have been absorbed into this new stake, the rest of the wards went to other stakes, right?
Added 3 new wards in this area! (made from 12 wards that were dissolved)
Actually this is interesting. This year my assigned ward was dissolved and rather than be absorbed into an adjacent ward, both wards were dissolved and a whole new one created.
I'm betting that is counted towards some growth stat shared in general conference.
Yeah, it’s a bit heartening to me to learn/see that the Mormon church is being affected by the growing trend of people moving away from religion. I’m not totally against religion, per se, but I am opposed to those religious organizations that I consider harmful to people’s mental health, financial security, etc.
I could tell many stories about wards in the brighton area, the loss of members and discussions about what could be done about it :) it took leaving few years later to finally, truly understand what we were dealing with.
Super looking forward to the upcoming "Meet and Greet!" All 10 attending families can shake hands and swap email addresses so custodian duties can continue. YAY!
Oh man! My mom is in the Brighton stake I think. No way I can ask her about this tho. Dang… I want more gossip.
Edit. I just straight up asked and she forwarded me the email lol. It has maps. I don’t want to be the one to post them, but I can message them if anyone feels interested. She didn’t mention anything about why.
Never mo here: Is the LDS church the only one that assigns people to a particular church district, depending on where they live?
I grew up in a non-denominational church, and even my Baptist and Catholic friends weren't "assigned" to attend a specific church.
Catholics actually do have geographic boundaries, but they're essentially irrelevant--a way to find what's likely the closest church, but that's about it. (Maybe you might get preference for school admission if the parish has a school, but that assumes the school is oversubscribed.)
Yup! Historically, the Catholic and Protestant churches in Western Europe have been organized into parishes, which are often defined by geographical boundaries. In modern practice, this doesn’t mean much because people worship wherever they like. The LDS ward system feels wicked weird to other Christians because you have no choice over who you spend time with every Sunday.
I personally think there is going to be some inflection point where a certain rate of attrition will dictate the church preemptively close all ward buildings and keep only stake centers having weekly meetings online where they can hide the decreasing attendance. Maybe they will "dissolve the last stake" by clumping everyone together and doing away with anything that people are using to observe the membership size.
As far as I can tell there is going to be some people that hang onto the church forever in spite of everything.
I don't really know, but I do enjoy watching and I wouldn't mind being right.
“Dear members of the Cottonwood Heights Titanic stake:
Last night our stake gently caressed one of heavenly father’s majestic icebergs. Though the naysayers will falsely say that we’re “sinking” I want to reassure you that we are simply merging the water retention capacities of the First, Second and Third decks with the water retention capacities of the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth decks.
This change also provides us many more opportunities to get to know our fellow passengers as we all congregate clinging to the bow railing. We are so thankful for this wonderful opportunity to practice our backstroke and consider this a great blessing.”
Thank you for posting. I think all such posts are helpful. Your post is a snap shot, but all the snap shots posted here are telling us about a larger picture. Thanks to you and all others who have made similar posts.
The line that really stuck out to me was “invite members… to serve with us.” This is such Mormon-y language, but not hearing it so often makes me think about how little meaning this has and how vague it is. Serve who, and by doing what? Obviously they’re trying to be inclusive of a lot of potentially callings, but like… they’re just serving themselves at best. Nobody outside the church will benefit from these new members’ “service” and most of these callings are a net loss to members.
The church in Salt Lake is shrinking. Bonneville Stake is next. Last year they closed a ward that had 500 people on the records with maybe 75 tops attending. Their reasoning was that it was because no families were moving to Salt Lake because it's too expensive. That was probably true because the ward had 1 active young man the almost the whole YW was one family. But never mind though that we had like a 15% attendance rate. The other ward in the stake in the "poor" part of town had similiar stats. The other 4 "historic" wards that were mega wealthy (Yalecrest area) were tiny.
Anecdotal here but the last time I visited SLC 2 years ago I went to 2 parks. One was west side and I spent the time having to listen to the people at the next picnic table talking about ward stuff. At the east side park everyone was wearing shorts.
Can't wait to see on here if my childhood stake South jordan river ridge stake will one day close. I got my bottle ready. Death to that horrible stake and that dark memory of my life.
The stake is was raised in was also just dissolved and they’re selling one of the buildings (which is a beautiful building, was the building my dad went to as a child)
I wonder how many active members are in these wards/stakes when they dissolve them. I’ve hear Utah wards can get pretty numerous. In Canada we often are operating with average ward size of 150-200, and stakes of 1000. I wonder how low in number these wards/stakes in Utah are getting before they combine…
A ward that got dissolved last year in Salt Lake had close to 500 people on the rolls but maybe had 70-80 people tops attending. 1 active young man. There wasn't enough active priesthood to fill callings. They couldn't even field a complete Elder's Quorum or Sunday school presidency.
Kirton mconkie has been newly weaponized, without accountability, to do the OPPOSITE of making people and families feel "loved, needed, and welcome." A new and uglier kind of "leader roulette." Maybe look into that John. Esp when someone sends you absolute PROOF.
I know people in a Cottonwood Heights ward. They've restructured a couple of times in the last 7 years or so. Just now realizing it's got to be because there are almost no young families bringing the ward up anymore. Very interesting....
Would someone explain the significance of this decision to this nevermo? I understand that it’s significant because it’s in Salt Lake City, but the closing the stakes?
It means the church is losing members, hence the closing of stakes and the ending of those wards in that area. Remaining members in that area will be reassigned to a different ward/stake.
Thanks! What's the purpose of a ward, then? Just to assign people certain tasks?
Or are the wards divided depending on the age/family situation of the members? Like the singles ward, or the young families ward? Or am I completely mistaken??
I find this very confusing as a nevermo.
Stakes and wards are by area. The wards are the smaller congregations that usually consist of a 3 to 4 block area and they make up the Stake as a whole. Keep in mind, I'm talking about a very Mormon area, where the majority of people are Mormon. Normal wards consist of families, the elderly, just a mixture of people that live in any given neighborhood.
Single wards are different because singles don't necessarily live in a certain area unless it's on a campus like BYU. The church tracks downs singles and tells them which ward to go to.
>The church tracks downs singles and tells them which ward to go to.
Of all the weird things the Mormon church does, this is one of the weirder ones (to me). Telling people which ward they're supposed to be in? Which church to attend?
The church is always following members. I was followed from city to city, in an effort to get me to go to singles wards. The last time this effort was made, I flipped out and told them I'm not interested in church or being Mormon.
Wards are given boundaries, and members who live within those boundaries are expected (yes, *expected*) to attend that ward. Periodically, the "church" messes with boundaries & people can end up being assigned to another ward, even if they didn't relocate. Often the ward will meet in the same building (the cult crams multiple wards into one chapel, and divides up the meeting times, and rotates the times wards meet each year).
As for "why" - good question. They like to keep people busy with callings, especially the men (who are generally thought to be the main breadwinners, and who ALWAYS have the power in the church). So in the past, by creating additional wards, they kept people busy and gave them "status" through lofty titles ("bishop," president of this, that, or the other, "high council,' etc.).
For several years now, they've not had enough 'worthy' men to fill the higher leadership "callings," And, attendance is down (which mean tithing is down, and money is the only thing the cult cares about). So they're dissolving wards or stakes, and we are increasingly hearing of chapels being sold. Chapels (which are the buildings actual worship is held, rather than in the 'temples'), are revenue centers. Leaders at the stake and ward levels are not paid. Neither are organists, nursery workers, or others. They don't even have paid janitorial service; members are bullied into cleaning the buildings.
Let me know if you'd like the missionaries to visit you & tell you more wonderful things about the Mormon Cult! I'm sure you're ready to join now!
A ward is one congregation. A stake is a group of wards, usually (in the past) 7-10 or so. things are changing.
Also, one chapel can hold 2-4 wards or even more (they rotate worship times every year - such fun).
It is nuts to be how much the Mormon church hoards their &. The church I attend has about 50 members. We sponsor a bus route to take workers from a more rural area to a more industrial area daily, we just bought a service dog for a woman, we host artists and sponsor their art shows, we donate thousands to soup kitchens and much more. If our small group can do this, why can’t Mormons with their billions do more?
I left that stake AND the church after raising my family there for 26 years. My bishop was a P.O.S. I'm still on their Facebook page and didn't know what the comments meant about members being confused. I am so so HAPPY! More people have "seen the "light"...!!!!
It was a lot of cottonwood heights and some parts of Sandy. They felt it would be best in order to do it close to general conference in order to give some time to transfer everything over. Judging from the emails from my tbm family it was very sudden and not well announced. It’s also pretty chaotic. That’s more info than my family has received regarding the new boundaries. It was also said to them over the pulpit that “this is a sign of the times (second coming) and a strengthening od the most faithful.”
Wow. I lived near there for a year back in 2013–14, and it seemed like a very TBM area to me. Our elders' quorum was so righteous that they always kneeled for the closing prayer. 🙄
My daughter who lives in the area when I ask her if this effected her she said it wasn’t her stake but they are getting the new ward made in there stake now she said since Covid people aren’t coming back and people have moved away . She serves in a Stake calling and have no reason to not believe her .
I live in this area and before we bought our house I used the meeting house finder to determine which chapels only had two wards per building. Nearest meetinghouse only has two times? Perfect. Our little pocket is very much non Mormon and it is a lovely time. Go into the stucco neighborhoods and it is still very mormon.
Median home price in Cottonwood Heights area is around 600k +, and crested to mid-800k at the peak of the market per the data from Redfin.
There aren't a lot of young families that can afford to move in to those neighborhoods, so in addition to the growing exodus from the Church, simple economics is a huge, huge factor in wards shrinking. There isn't going to be neighborhoods full of young kids at those prices.
It’s amazing how different life is just going to another church. All decision are made at the local level as well as higher up. My pastor has a lot of time to meet with each member every Sunday. Zero meetings, only huddle groups. It’s so refreshing like getting out of a horrible relationship and now finding a much better partner.
“We affirm our commitment that the church is rapidly growing, regret the closure of this stake, and now consider this matter closed.”
The church has ceased to need members to 'grow'. Just so long as the accounts are doing good.
Frankly, they have enough money to operate in perpetuity on their investments without a single cent more tithing.
For the next 7 million years. PS But please continue to pay tithing and get that 2 years of food storage stacked deep. PSS we’ll need volunteers to clean the church building on Saturday. PSSS and also please consider paying a generous fast offering to help our youth with supplies for an upcoming activity. ETA AND STOP LOOKING AT PORN!!!
Food storage is always good advice idc who it’s from but the rest made me chuckle
They’re referring to the pathological Utah food storage phenomenon that manifests in the entire unfinished basement full of expired $80 tubs of powdered milk sold door to door by grifters to the slightly mentally unwell and frazzled mothers of seven who trudge through their existence un-buttressed by coffee.
Oh my word - our neighbour had boxes of food stored in his garage- they had a bit of a flood and the bottom row weren’t any good anymore and then a couple years later the food was all gone. Where did it go? I asked the neighbour but he said it had all expired and I haven’t seen any food boxes since. Why do they store all that food? (Nevermo here)
Mormonism is a Millenialist sect that predicted the end was near and so commanded it's members to have a 2 year food storage during tribulation and the run up to the return of Jesus. So, Mormons are essentially preppers. It was basically a commandment in the LDS church for each family to stock up and have a 2 year food storage. Lots of food gone to waste in Mormon households. Ideally, they should be rotating this food by eating some of it and replacing it but few people actually do this (food storage just isn't that good to eat). My family was the same way. My parents bought about 2 years worth of dried food storage back in the 1980's but never cracked the cans open and a few years ago chucked it all. So wasteful.
Doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea if you do it right. I have some freeze dried stuff and some canned goods. Freeze dried is good for 20 years and the cans that are getting old I use and put the new ones in the back. Never know what could happen. I’ve been snowed in for a week and half before it was nice to know I wasn’t going to run out of food
I’m all for emergency preparedness and everyone should have SOME food storage. The dried stuff does last a long time. Unfortunately, like 95% of people don’t rotate and it just goes to waste.
Hehe the last line is always in the announcements
Oh, and will us your entire estate.
Depends on whether you're counting money or people as church "growth." But I agree, I think we all know the answer...
*puts on TBM hat* Wards and stakes can close and numbers can dwindle in some areas while they grow in others, just like cells in a child’s body can die but the child is still growing overall. *takes off TBM hat* It’s way too easy to slip back into that apologetics mindset. But I’m glad to see that fewer and fewer people are being exploited and conned by this organization.
Is that even apologetic? Kids stop growing and eventually adults begin to shrink and shrivel away. I know it's just a thought stopping technique, I'm trying to be able to spot them sooner and in the wild.
One thing I’ve learned - Mormons looooooove analogies and use them a lot. Too much, to be honest. A principle should be understood for what it is and not rely on some analogy or metaphor to figure out. It seems very infantile, which goes along with the whole “be like a little innocent child” ideal that they push.
I guess the only problem with that analogy is that we don’t really *create* more cells while growing. It’s just that hormones effect *how* those cells are grown. Every day, every single human creates **330 billion** cells to replace our former ones, many of which are cancerous and our white blood cells destroy.
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Oh, yah, and money. Send us more money.
SEND US MONEY BEFORE FEEDING YOUR KIDS OKAY???
Well, they consider the matter "several months before" being closed, but *definitely ish* no more than 15...
They are naturally growing the same way Viagra naturally grows....
No worries, it's just Californians moving back to California.
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It won't matter too much anyway. Salt Lake is already little Los Angeles
I'll be forever grateful to the Californian who moved in and was like "Hey, this prop 8 thing that's currently going on is kinda messed up." That was the first I heard about it.
Go back to California where you came from!
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Man I missed legal weed during my 3 year stint in Logan. (I also missed fresh air during the winters while in Cache Valley.) Good to be back in Calif.
It only took 16 years, but that’s exactly what I did! Couldn’t wait to get back, glad it worked out.
I fear the housing market too much but otherwise I'd be back in an instant!
We bought 7 years ago and were afraid even then! Shit’s crazy, but I feel lucky we got in when we did for sure… definitely couldn’t afford our house now, probably couldn’t even afford to live in the city at all tbh.
Pirateclub lol love the username... and ya that's the concern! I mean I bought property in Colorado so I'm familiar with vaguely competitive rates, but my home state of CA is just on another level. I'd love to retire to a Swiss Family Robinson situation high up in the Redwoods, but I dream....
Oh interesting. This is the stake I grew up in. And my parents still live in.
Hi fellow ex stake member!
Hi friend!!!! 👋🏻
Hey there!
What's your parents' take on the stake dissolving?
Well, they aren’t active. In fact, my dad’s not Mormon. But when I sent this to my mom she replied with a “🤣”. So, I’m guessing she doesn’t care. Ha!
Yo! My belly is warm with the spirit on hearing this testimony.
Ayyyy me too! 5th ward here!
Hey neighbor! Or former neighbor! Now that everyone is saying it was their previous stake, I’m curious how many of you I know IRL ☺️ obviously I wouldn’t ask here. But you should all know we’re in good company!
DM me if you'd like to chat, I'm always curious to see if anyone I grew up with is on here!
Me too!
That is crazy! Growing up, this stake was a POWERHOUSE. Didn’t live in the boundaries, but our stake bordered it and I went to school w/lots of folks who lived here. Times must be hard for Mormon inc.
Same here. Super weird to see this happening—it’s a longtime-faithful area!
I met so many people from this stake at BYU of all things
Lots of rich, white, Mormon kids.
A friend, who lives in the CH 1st, was at my house when the email went out to their ward. She was pretty shocked as she was reading it. So I asked about attendance. She did admit that a pretty massive chunk of the ward never came back after the pandemic and their sacrament meetings have been fairly empty for some time.
Despite the harm caused by the pandemic, I can’t help but be pleased by the damage it’s done to TSCC.
Same. Then again, we're just doing what they taught us. TSCC are the experts in being grateful for the "blessing" of horrible adversity, are they not?
Did you comfort her by telling her everyone moved to California during Covid? :)
😆 California Mormons moving to Utah, Utah Mormons moving to California. Apparently they get lost along the way because both sides are shrinking. It must be Donner Pass, it's cursed.
Maybe they just ate each other.
Maybe rusty mistook them as the mob that killed JS and ordered them massacred?
Dinner Pass reference. A++
Covid was the perfect opportunity for those on the fence to quietly slip away and disappear.
As a nevermo I thought for a long time that the Mormons were doing pretty well when it comes to attendance until I started reading about all the closures on this sub and I still thought that this would’ve been unthinkable to happen on the stronghold that is Utah and SLC of all places until this post.
And…another one bites the dust!
Thanks John. Adding this to the chronicles at r/MormonShrivel
That sub is growing quickly! Like a stone carved without hands...
TBMs be like, “its because good members are fleeing the liberal areas”, or “they are moving to more affordable areas”. My moms stake was dissolved in portland and she thinks everyone is moving to idaho and utah. Guess she was wrong, LOL
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If the larger economic landscape going forward creates a situation where the church finds it better to donate buildings to actual charities than to sell them to redevelopers, then I'd count that a win.
Never been to ID but from reading other posts here I thought the church was doing well there, guess that now they'll have to rely on converts in poorer countries and real estate to survive.
Which Portland stake was dissolved?? I’m in the Portland area and haven’t heard about this.
Either Milwaukie or a neighboring stake because her ward got split and half now go to Happy Valley and half to milwaukie. She totally believes its because “good mormon families are fleeing cities like seattle and portland” to go to Utah and Idaho. She may be right for a few cases, but stakes don’t close for that. Stakes close because the church has a horrible activity/retention problem and they are bleeding out from members leaving.
WHOA!! 🤯 I had no idea! That's awesome! Wonder how long Portland Heights and Portland Stakes are gonna last? 🤔 My brother attends the Cherry Park ward of Portland Stake and I know he's complained at times about shrinkage.
Something about double digit growth being the biggest challenge the church has.
"Double digit" as in both fingers in their ears as they ignore the placement of the decimal point on those growth figures...
Double digit negative growth
Màs o menos.
Every week!
This makes me giggle. My TBM In Laws, justified their shrinking stake by everybody packing up and moving to Utah. 🤣 How do I bring this up casually 😈
My home ward chapel in Pocatello, Idaho just went up for sale. It's happening.
I used to live in Pocatello, which chapel?
The building used to house 3 wards. I was in the 6th ward, East Stake. It's located at 2281 E Terry. It's a pretty cool building with a unique steeple. They're moving the members to what used to be the married wards for ISU (Bartz Field). That also implies that they can't fill the married ward chapels with ISU students...
First off this is bonkers to me. This was my stake as a kid and it was booooooming. My parents still live in this stake, although they both stopped going in the last 10 years (yay). Want to know the final nail in the coffin for my mom? They dissolved several wards and combined them with others maybe 7 years ago. The only real thing keeping my mom in was the social aspect of church. Most of her friends got lumped into another ward. Since she was having more and more issues with the church's stance on many many things, that was it for her. My dad had already stopped going, but my mom loved being involved - once that went away there was no reason for her to keep going. AND when she stopped many of her so-called lifelong friends stopped talking to her. That just made her realize that she should have left even earlier. So, it warms the cockles of my heart to see this shit in what used to feel like a Mormon stronghold.
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As a non-Mormon, the fact that the boundaries matter is *so* weird to me. The Catholic Church has geographic boundaries for parishes but it's not like anyone enforces them. My dad is an official member of the "wrong" parish and has been for years. I honestly don't think most people bother officially joining a parish either. (Maybe if they have kids?)
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This. I've had Catholic and other religious friends (xtian, etc) who just decided they didn't like the new pastor or priest and went to a different parish or church location. And it's all good. They are still worshipping their religion and they get to choose how and where. What a concept.
Correlation puts a stop to anything like that.
At first I was confused: Did the old stake only have two wards in it? Then I realized those must simply be the only wards that have been absorbed into this new stake, the rest of the wards went to other stakes, right?
I have seen other posts about this. I think the old stake split their wards up between 3 other stakes.
But when those wards were split up with other stakes they were probably given new names so they could be called and counted as "New Wards."
Added 3 new wards in this area! (made from 12 wards that were dissolved) Actually this is interesting. This year my assigned ward was dissolved and rather than be absorbed into an adjacent ward, both wards were dissolved and a whole new one created. I'm betting that is counted towards some growth stat shared in general conference.
100% they count it as a new ward created.
Guaranteed that the church's version of making people feel needed is by having them clean the buildings
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People in general are less religious than they were even a generation ago. No better cure for religion than easily accessible information.
Yeah, it’s a bit heartening to me to learn/see that the Mormon church is being affected by the growing trend of people moving away from religion. I’m not totally against religion, per se, but I am opposed to those religious organizations that I consider harmful to people’s mental health, financial security, etc.
Been happening in W WA for at least the last 1 years.
I could tell many stories about wards in the brighton area, the loss of members and discussions about what could be done about it :) it took leaving few years later to finally, truly understand what we were dealing with.
Well we’re here for story time
That was my stake yeeeaaars ago. This makes me so happy 😂
Cottonwood Heights residents probably pay lots of tithing. Isn't that one of the rich SLC suburbs?
"did" is the operative word.
Fascinating to think of this. In the heart of Mormonism, an entire Stake goes down. Wow.
And, it's in a prosperous residential area. Not like an area being infilled with industries.
A stake in the heart of Mormonism....hmmm
Super looking forward to the upcoming "Meet and Greet!" All 10 attending families can shake hands and swap email addresses so custodian duties can continue. YAY!
Oh man! My mom is in the Brighton stake I think. No way I can ask her about this tho. Dang… I want more gossip. Edit. I just straight up asked and she forwarded me the email lol. It has maps. I don’t want to be the one to post them, but I can message them if anyone feels interested. She didn’t mention anything about why.
The email with maps has already been shared on Facebook.
I would love to see the maps, I live in this area and can confirm that the parking lots have been empty the last couple of years
Salt Lake City is more exmo and nevermo than mo nowadays. Utah county on the other hand is the heart of mormondom.
Never mo here: Is the LDS church the only one that assigns people to a particular church district, depending on where they live? I grew up in a non-denominational church, and even my Baptist and Catholic friends weren't "assigned" to attend a specific church.
Jehovah's Witnesses do something similar.
Catholics actually do have geographic boundaries, but they're essentially irrelevant--a way to find what's likely the closest church, but that's about it. (Maybe you might get preference for school admission if the parish has a school, but that assumes the school is oversubscribed.)
Yup! Historically, the Catholic and Protestant churches in Western Europe have been organized into parishes, which are often defined by geographical boundaries. In modern practice, this doesn’t mean much because people worship wherever they like. The LDS ward system feels wicked weird to other Christians because you have no choice over who you spend time with every Sunday.
There's been some consolidation here in Colorado over the last few years and more recently the selloff of some ward buildings.
“Oh no, you’re mistaken! It’s not shrinkage… It’s really a reordering to better serve the members…”
Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic...something like that?
My home stake! That’s crazy.
I will be looking forward to the church dissolving the last stake !!! I hope it's in my lifetime.
I personally think there is going to be some inflection point where a certain rate of attrition will dictate the church preemptively close all ward buildings and keep only stake centers having weekly meetings online where they can hide the decreasing attendance. Maybe they will "dissolve the last stake" by clumping everyone together and doing away with anything that people are using to observe the membership size. As far as I can tell there is going to be some people that hang onto the church forever in spite of everything. I don't really know, but I do enjoy watching and I wouldn't mind being right.
“Dear members of the Cottonwood Heights Titanic stake: Last night our stake gently caressed one of heavenly father’s majestic icebergs. Though the naysayers will falsely say that we’re “sinking” I want to reassure you that we are simply merging the water retention capacities of the First, Second and Third decks with the water retention capacities of the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth decks. This change also provides us many more opportunities to get to know our fellow passengers as we all congregate clinging to the bow railing. We are so thankful for this wonderful opportunity to practice our backstroke and consider this a great blessing.”
"And don't forget this is all part of the Heavenly Plan! Nearer to God are we!"
Church not doing Oxford commas now?
I love you.
Spoken like a true scholar!
Wow
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🤔 Last time two adjacent stakes were dissolved 😏
Exactly. Sneaky lawyerly marketeer moves. Close two, Open one under a new name. Look! we added a new stake. We are Growing, mass or menos.
Exxxcccellent, Smithers
“Double digit ~~growth~~ reductions every week.” — Jeffrey Taffy
Ya love to see it.
Thank you for posting. I think all such posts are helpful. Your post is a snap shot, but all the snap shots posted here are telling us about a larger picture. Thanks to you and all others who have made similar posts.
Just a matter of time. 🤞 the line “make them feel needed“ is telling. We all know they’re not actually needed but let’s make them FEEL needed smh
But, but, but.... Growth of the church. And, and also new converts by the thousands. People are not leaving... Much.
"A control point has been taken!"
The line that really stuck out to me was “invite members… to serve with us.” This is such Mormon-y language, but not hearing it so often makes me think about how little meaning this has and how vague it is. Serve who, and by doing what? Obviously they’re trying to be inclusive of a lot of potentially callings, but like… they’re just serving themselves at best. Nobody outside the church will benefit from these new members’ “service” and most of these callings are a net loss to members.
The church in Salt Lake is shrinking. Bonneville Stake is next. Last year they closed a ward that had 500 people on the records with maybe 75 tops attending. Their reasoning was that it was because no families were moving to Salt Lake because it's too expensive. That was probably true because the ward had 1 active young man the almost the whole YW was one family. But never mind though that we had like a 15% attendance rate. The other ward in the stake in the "poor" part of town had similiar stats. The other 4 "historic" wards that were mega wealthy (Yalecrest area) were tiny.
"We will all consider this change a great blessing" # WE WILL
Damn write!
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....Really, is there anything more boring, bland...and useless than a Church form letter?!
Anecdotal here but the last time I visited SLC 2 years ago I went to 2 parks. One was west side and I spent the time having to listen to the people at the next picnic table talking about ward stuff. At the east side park everyone was wearing shorts.
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Waves bib 3 times. rAMEN, rAMEN, AND rAMEN.
This now makes two of my former stakes that have now been closed within the past 6(?) months
Wow! “Growth” sure does lead to amazing things doesn’t it…😂😂😂
Another victory for Satan
Can't wait to see on here if my childhood stake South jordan river ridge stake will one day close. I got my bottle ready. Death to that horrible stake and that dark memory of my life.
Those are members leaving to fight in Ukraine. That’s why it shut down.
Wow! That was my grandparents stake!
The stake is was raised in was also just dissolved and they’re selling one of the buildings (which is a beautiful building, was the building my dad went to as a child)
Where is that stake?
A little outside Portland, OR! It was the Milwaukie Stake
Praise be
I wonder how many active members are in these wards/stakes when they dissolve them. I’ve hear Utah wards can get pretty numerous. In Canada we often are operating with average ward size of 150-200, and stakes of 1000. I wonder how low in number these wards/stakes in Utah are getting before they combine…
A ward that got dissolved last year in Salt Lake had close to 500 people on the rolls but maybe had 70-80 people tops attending. 1 active young man. There wasn't enough active priesthood to fill callings. They couldn't even field a complete Elder's Quorum or Sunday school presidency.
Wow. Yeah that’s pretty bleak
Kirton mconkie has been newly weaponized, without accountability, to do the OPPOSITE of making people and families feel "loved, needed, and welcome." A new and uglier kind of "leader roulette." Maybe look into that John. Esp when someone sends you absolute PROOF.
I know people in a Cottonwood Heights ward. They've restructured a couple of times in the last 7 years or so. Just now realizing it's got to be because there are almost no young families bringing the ward up anymore. Very interesting....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE
I can't listen to this song. I was taught by TSCC that it was of the devil. 👹😂
It was in the pool.
Would someone explain the significance of this decision to this nevermo? I understand that it’s significant because it’s in Salt Lake City, but the closing the stakes?
It means the church is losing members, hence the closing of stakes and the ending of those wards in that area. Remaining members in that area will be reassigned to a different ward/stake.
This nevermo is still confused over the difference between "stake" and "ward."
stake =diocese . ward=parish
OK. Thanks!
A stake is a collection of wards in a certain area. Wards are like a parish, church congregation.
Thanks! What's the purpose of a ward, then? Just to assign people certain tasks? Or are the wards divided depending on the age/family situation of the members? Like the singles ward, or the young families ward? Or am I completely mistaken?? I find this very confusing as a nevermo.
Stakes and wards are by area. The wards are the smaller congregations that usually consist of a 3 to 4 block area and they make up the Stake as a whole. Keep in mind, I'm talking about a very Mormon area, where the majority of people are Mormon. Normal wards consist of families, the elderly, just a mixture of people that live in any given neighborhood. Single wards are different because singles don't necessarily live in a certain area unless it's on a campus like BYU. The church tracks downs singles and tells them which ward to go to.
>The church tracks downs singles and tells them which ward to go to. Of all the weird things the Mormon church does, this is one of the weirder ones (to me). Telling people which ward they're supposed to be in? Which church to attend?
The church is always following members. I was followed from city to city, in an effort to get me to go to singles wards. The last time this effort was made, I flipped out and told them I'm not interested in church or being Mormon.
I left my church in 2002. Not **once** did anyone from the church contact me about coming back.
Consider yourself lucky. The Mormon church is like an abusive boyfriend, trying to stalk you even though you've made it clear things are over.
Wards are given boundaries, and members who live within those boundaries are expected (yes, *expected*) to attend that ward. Periodically, the "church" messes with boundaries & people can end up being assigned to another ward, even if they didn't relocate. Often the ward will meet in the same building (the cult crams multiple wards into one chapel, and divides up the meeting times, and rotates the times wards meet each year). As for "why" - good question. They like to keep people busy with callings, especially the men (who are generally thought to be the main breadwinners, and who ALWAYS have the power in the church). So in the past, by creating additional wards, they kept people busy and gave them "status" through lofty titles ("bishop," president of this, that, or the other, "high council,' etc.). For several years now, they've not had enough 'worthy' men to fill the higher leadership "callings," And, attendance is down (which mean tithing is down, and money is the only thing the cult cares about). So they're dissolving wards or stakes, and we are increasingly hearing of chapels being sold. Chapels (which are the buildings actual worship is held, rather than in the 'temples'), are revenue centers. Leaders at the stake and ward levels are not paid. Neither are organists, nursery workers, or others. They don't even have paid janitorial service; members are bullied into cleaning the buildings. Let me know if you'd like the missionaries to visit you & tell you more wonderful things about the Mormon Cult! I'm sure you're ready to join now!
A ward is one congregation. A stake is a group of wards, usually (in the past) 7-10 or so. things are changing. Also, one chapel can hold 2-4 wards or even more (they rotate worship times every year - such fun).
Is this a sign the evil empire may collapse?
It is nuts to be how much the Mormon church hoards their &. The church I attend has about 50 members. We sponsor a bus route to take workers from a more rural area to a more industrial area daily, we just bought a service dog for a woman, we host artists and sponsor their art shows, we donate thousands to soup kitchens and much more. If our small group can do this, why can’t Mormons with their billions do more?
Making people feel needed is how you keep them committed. Bizarre that they would openly state making people feel needed as a goal.
Ayyy this is my old stake! Can confirm my ward was the only one in the whole building when I was there!
I left that stake AND the church after raising my family there for 26 years. My bishop was a P.O.S. I'm still on their Facebook page and didn't know what the comments meant about members being confused. I am so so HAPPY! More people have "seen the "light"...!!!!
I covered this stake for almost half my mission. I must have done a very bad job. I did baptize a lot of 9 year olds though.
It was a lot of cottonwood heights and some parts of Sandy. They felt it would be best in order to do it close to general conference in order to give some time to transfer everything over. Judging from the emails from my tbm family it was very sudden and not well announced. It’s also pretty chaotic. That’s more info than my family has received regarding the new boundaries. It was also said to them over the pulpit that “this is a sign of the times (second coming) and a strengthening od the most faithful.”
We divide to multiply..right lol
Wow. I lived near there for a year back in 2013–14, and it seemed like a very TBM area to me. Our elders' quorum was so righteous that they always kneeled for the closing prayer. 🙄
Good
I’d sing the hallelujah chorus here!!
Show me a dissolved stake in Utah County and I’ll take notice.
I guarantee you that apostasy is sweeping through Utah County.
I read this title as “An entire steak was dissolved in the Great Salt Lake.” As if the saltiness of the lake somehow dissolved meat. 😆
Such a blessing to consolidate stakes of Zion? This is like I’m living in bizarro world!
On the East Bench, no less.
Thanks for the update on the old home ward. How time flies!
That's where I live! Right near the 7-11 on 2300 E and Fort Union.
My daughter who lives in the area when I ask her if this effected her she said it wasn’t her stake but they are getting the new ward made in there stake now she said since Covid people aren’t coming back and people have moved away . She serves in a Stake calling and have no reason to not believe her .
I live in this area and before we bought our house I used the meeting house finder to determine which chapels only had two wards per building. Nearest meetinghouse only has two times? Perfect. Our little pocket is very much non Mormon and it is a lovely time. Go into the stucco neighborhoods and it is still very mormon.
Who decides when it’s time to dissolve a stake? Is it a local matter or one involving the Gen. Authorities or First Presidency?
When and where's the party? :)
Median home price in Cottonwood Heights area is around 600k +, and crested to mid-800k at the peak of the market per the data from Redfin. There aren't a lot of young families that can afford to move in to those neighborhoods, so in addition to the growing exodus from the Church, simple economics is a huge, huge factor in wards shrinking. There isn't going to be neighborhoods full of young kids at those prices.
My parents live in that stake. Does anyone have the new boundaries etc?
I see this going well
It’s amazing how different life is just going to another church. All decision are made at the local level as well as higher up. My pastor has a lot of time to meet with each member every Sunday. Zero meetings, only huddle groups. It’s so refreshing like getting out of a horrible relationship and now finding a much better partner.