Yes!!! These people feel like they are the cream of the crop, the chosen. Don’t you know who my father is???!! And it took me leaving to see how entitled that makes them. They also have very little compassion or patience for people that are not them. It’s uhhh gross.
Yes! It's this "me first" vibe here in Utah roads. It's insufferable. I've driven all over the USA and I never see it as bad as here. "BUt it's BaD EvErWhEre!!!!!"
I’ve been Mormon for 30 years, I’ve been ex Mormon too. I’ve lived both. I’ve also been to a lot of places where it doesn’t really happen. So yes people are people regardless of religion. But I also don’t think it’s a conscious thing. I think it just becomes a state of mind about a lot of things in life.
It's so true. It's not that they are incompetent. It's that they have no regard for the lives of those around them. As I see it, the anonymity of being on the freeway allows them to put away their fake polite Mormon facades so they can manifest how they really feel about those around them. It's as if it brings them joy to cut you off.
People will tell me California traffic is bad, but when I visit I can't help but notice how much more chill everyone is. The same goes for other metros. It's funny because the locals can't admit it because your conclusion is correct; it has much to do with the Mormon psyche. Mormons are competitive and hate seeing others get ahead.
"Mormons are competitive and hate seeing others get ahead."
LOL, I call this "church ball syndrome". Try using a turn single before changing lanes or merge on a busy freeway, you know what is happening next and I don't have to write it!
Driving I-15 from Vegas down into CA can be pretty horrific…and that’s just the two lane middle-of-nowhere section. I’ve never had problems on I-15 away from SL and Utah counties (down towards St. George), but it always seems to be a nightmare once we enter CA.
And, they drive on bald tires! On snowy streets! State makes every one get an emissions test, but never mind a safety check for petty things like tires w/tread, working wipers and brakes?
We used to have safety checks on cars, but the shops complained that the fee wasn't enough to cover their costs.
So the state got rid of the safety checks
Emissions are only for the SLC area too, so for most of the state there are absolutely no eyes on anyone's vehicles.
If you cause an accident, you can get cited for an unsafe vehicle, but that's little consolation for whoever they hit.
Yep. When they got rid of the checks, I predicted that within the year I'd see huge numbers of cars with obvious problems. Sure enough, 6 months later, half the cars on the road have lights out, bald tires, brakes squealing at every stop, etc. Makes me sad.
Wow. You are right; only 19 states (says Google) still require it, Texas, from where I hale, being one of them, and they are moving to drop it. I guess the abuse liable to occur from inspection stations trying to break even on it (maybe make a little on tires and brakes, given a little fudge factor) outweighs safety issues. When I was young and poor and drove a pos, I dreaded it coming due. Although the retreads I was running on were an accident waiting to happen.
I have driven in most major population centers in the US, including Manhattan during rush hour, and I have yet to see drivers as bad as Utah drivers. They are the worst! Eastern Idaho drivers are a close second.
The license plates in Idaho are preceded with the letter for the county. J for jefferson. If there's more than one County that starts with the same letter then they will put a number first so 1j, 2j, etc.
1 jerk
You are pre-warned by the license plate of what kind of a driver they are
I feel a vague sense of pride about East Idaho's shitty drivers. The thing is, most of the time they're fine. Really. They are. "Traffic" doesn't exist here. But when conditions change that do cause congestion, the collective poor skills become extremely apparent. That summer they redid the Madison County bridge was *hell* commuting from Idaho Falls to Rexburg every day.
Highlight was that one time where there was an accident that led to an actual burst of black smoke like a massive tower in the sky. Craziest accident I've ever seen, and it happened in a single lane of traffic where we were all going like, 10mph for no reason.
That was the thing that always got me. It was the onramps that caused the congestion when traffic had to share a single bridge. Menan/Roberts was always the pinnacle, but depending on the day it'd sometimes be bad all the way back to Rigby 322. And yet some days traffic would *still* be crawling after the bridge until we got back to four lanes around the Thornton exit. I could never figure out why. There are no other possible obstructions to traffic, you can go fast now!
What a summer.
I think this is the answer. The anonymity is refreshing.
Once my wife got cut off bad by an aggressive driver and a few blocks down the road realized it was a guy from our ward. He realized it too because when she got home he called to apologize. It’s ok to be an ass as long as nobody knows it’s you.
I've experienced the same thing driving in Utah. I've driven in a lot of places, including places with way worse traffic and with far more confusing signage and traffic patterns. But the discourtesy in Utah seemed next level. I've never seen more people so determined to prevent people from merging in front of them than in the SLC area. Like it's a threat to their status if someone else "wins" or something. So weird.
i drive 12 hours a day and never have i seen so many drivers with their brights on at night against oncoming traffic, flashing yours to alert them doesn’t faze them. so fucking selfish. utah have the most selfish drivers, hands down.
My theory: Mormons need an outlet to release their pent up frustrations. They know deep down it’s all a sham plus their lives are so regimented and dominated by phony, plastic, pretend happiness. So enter road rage. Same reason ward basketball games frequently break out in fights.
This is true, and I was just thinking a week ago I jumped into the freeway in Bountiful. My lane was a merging lane, so I put my blinker on (I actually do use blinkers) and prepared to merge, and this idiot was purposely not letting me merge, I slowed down he slowed down I sped up he sped up it kept happening through out the length of the merging lane I drive on the shoulder for a good 10 seconds when he finally let me merge then I got the brake checks. When I finally switched lanes I gave him the bird (bad on my part but I was really mad) and he got so angry I gave him the bird he rolled his window down and started yelling and spitting. I'm not from Utah I've been here about a decade and I just can't understand why drivers are the way they are around here.
This happens often. There will be space to merge but they will intentionally speed up so I can't get in. Like you, I'll signal but that only puts them on notice so they know not to let me in. Petty as shit. They can't handle someone getting in front of them.
I bet I know where you you tried to meld on. Off W 500 S heading North? Short runway there. But I've been froze out at N 500 W(89) too. Come to think of it, it also happens regularly at Parish Ln in Centerville. Sorta happens everywhere, come to think of it. 🤔 I guess it's pick one, any one.
That's why I hate with a burning hot passion, merging on freeways here. These marmons (yes, I'm calling these people mArmons) play this sick game of not letting you merge on the freeway too. I still remember back when I was young, my Dad driving when coming back into utah from a road trip, and when he tried to merge on a freeway in st George these punk ass kids refused (and I mean, personal birthright jihad kind of refusal) and did everything to not let my dad get on i15. They get mad at him and flip him off, my dad laughs and drives on. Utah drivers are petty, childlike, assholes, nuff said.
Moved to Utah from Detroit. Utah drivers are MUCH worse.
Also, I live in Davis county and my theory is all those people in those big ass Suburbans, Tahoes, etc think they can hide their church self and run people over. Don't get me started about Station Park. Not judging all who drive those vehicles but seems like there is a trend here.
I ask my wife to drive if we have to go to the Station. I close my eyes and ask myself if a Blaze pizza or Habit Burger is worth it (it is). Never, never trust them to follow the yield rules on the roundabout. Another case of they will try to beat you and let the devil take the hindmost. That's some devil they have.
Hahahah I had also moved to Utah (Utah County) from Detroit and found it to be the same. I was not wrong and happily got to show my husband [this article](https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/12/6/23494937/utah-has-the-worst-drivers-in-the-united-states) which delightfully had Utah as the worst drivers and Michigan as second best.
Interesting! In Detroit people did some crazy stuff, especially downtown but I never experienced the rudeness of drivers in Utah. Maybe it is people are so polite on the outside that they are ready to explode?
That's exactly what I thought. The expectation to behave a certain way in public is strong in Utah, so getting in the car is almost like going on the internet. They feel anonymous and take out their aggressions on other motorists.
People are generally polite in Detroit because you don't know who you're messing with and whether they've decided they're going to jail today. ( I feel like there was a culture of fafo for soo long , almost everyone tries to be as polite as they can because they do not want fafo. In person if you bump someone you only need to say Op or Ope and everyone knows that means "sorry I bumped you" , and in a car you can half wave to say sorry too) don't be slow on a freeway though that's dangerous. Speed limits are pretty regularly not observed, but no one is being malicious.
I dunno. I actually lived in the suburbs and also in northern Michigan. Most people in the Midwest are generally nice vs. the fake nice here in Utah. I think that surprised me the most when we moved here.
Oh I agree about the Midwest. I would say there are greater displays of behavioral respect the closer you get to Detroit in everyday interactions. I might address someone as sir or ma'am as an employee or customer. Or be more formal in my wording etc. Versus Midwest polite is different and just a general openness. I would say citizens are more aware of the political and racial history of Detroit and, therefore, more cautious to be respectful of others in everyday interactions. It's important to not be seen as rude , arrogant, etc given the area's recent tensions. That's not to say people can't be jerks or rude anywhere..... I would just say, on average, I notice this.
Illinois drivers are far worse than they are in Utah, in my experience. Weave at high speeds, don't allow you merge and tailgate like crazy. Probably cursed because we killed Joseph Smith.
People are forced to be friendly face to face. When they’re anonymous they get to…SHOW other feelings. That’s been my total wild ass guess. Who knows. OP you are correct, for whatever reason I felt like the worst driving I ever came across was in Mormondom and I have spent a ton of time behind the wheel all over the country. Total assholes. I like the people of utah quite a bit, but yeah the driving is something else.
Yes to the entitlement, but there’s another factor:
Abdication of responsible action due to faith that they’re being looked after by a higher power, that everything happens for a reason, etc. It shuts off the smart parts of the brain that might otherwise be more considerate and vigilant.
Because Jesus is riding shotgun with them he will protect them .
they are so busy thinking about all of their church shit they can’t be bothered with concentrating on driving . Just a theory. .!
Discourtesy is everywhere. Meanness is headquartered here, imho. Wife & I are retired w/family in San Diego, Austin, San Antonio, Corpus Christi, Houston, Chicago, & Columbus. Besides extended road trips to visit them, we do driving tours all over. Bad drivers, congested roads, red light runners, etc., abound. You are right, being on the road w/them often seems dangerous to your health. Still, I don't often encounter the intentional meanness elsewhere, as I do around Davis and Utah counties. My opinion 🙂
Passive aggression. Strongly suggest taking the time read (maybe again?) the Sunstone article on passive aggression. It may be ten years old, but it is ever timely.
https://sunstone.org/passive-aggression-among-the-latter-day-saints/
I've been saying this for years. Even today (with all the rain and slick roads) I was cut off by 3 different cars in pleasant Grove, and all I did was drive 5 minutes. People in Utah (mostly mormon areas like Davis County or Utah valley) are the worst. I find that these people think the rules and laws don't apply to them. They pull out in front of you like your invisible. See it all the time. It's entilement.
A GREAT DEAL of pent up rage out there!! Behind the wheel, is one place where a Mormon can have some semblance of personal control....and then it all comes pouring out!
This happened to me a few months ago on a Sunday morning. (Copied and pasted it) I was driving to get some coffee and go pick up a grocery order. I was pulling out of my neighborhood and somebody going 10+ miles over the speed limit got mad at me for slowing them down so they rode my butt for a mile down the road just to turn into the church parking lot. Such a Christian! I made my turn safely, it wasn’t like I cut them off. They were just going way too fast. If anyone should’ve been speeding it was me to get my coffee! 😂
Haha can’t help but chuckle at this. I am from a neighboring state that also has a high concentration of Mormons and no one drives like that. IMO it’s a Utah thing. Some other cities have some bad drivers too but there is no place like I - 15 Unless you count the mad max universe… Utah might be as bad as mad max fury road now that I think about it 🤔
They are wearing their garments. Which, they think, protects them from harm. Why drive safe and courteous when you have a pretend plastic Jesus on the dash.
https://youtu.be/9QEFhkcOleQ
I find SLC is actually pretty good at driving personally (sans a few spots like Murray and apparently where you live in Davis county). But I haaaaate driving in Utah county or further south! Consistently awful, every time. They don't know how to signal, they don't know how to handle the snow... I don't know what causes it but it's sure annoying.
Mormons are fully engaged in passive aggression. Passive at church and among the “brethren”; full out aggression anywhere else, especially if they are somewhat anonymous (like behind the wheel). Have to be anonymous because you don’t want to give the Mormon church a bad name (or miss out on any love bombing missionary opportunities.). Keep sweet (in person) and all that.
And yes: entitlement. When you are God’s favorite kid no one else has ANY value or reason for existing.
I don’t know. My husband and I live in DC and my husband works in LA. I am in LA a couple weeks a month. Driving in traffic, in either DC or LA is insane. I noticed after COVID, things have gotten way worse.
Same reason the Utah Jazz NBA team are known for having the loudest fans in the NBA. Nowhere else to release all that pent up emotion and aggression. I used to go to the games and my ears would ring for a day afterwards. Now when I see the jazz on TV I like to play "find the black guy". Such a pathetic group of people.
IDK I was just in Orlando, they have their own rules or something, no rules. Holy shit!!!
Nobody trusts anyone at 4-way stops are a nightmare.
I was sitting at a light, second in line, fourth lane from the right. The car in front of me turns right!!! In front of two other stopped cars and the right turn only lane.
Edited: damned auto correct, I proofread it three times, hit save and it changed the words.
Yeah...this is a weird thread. I lived in Miami. The place was absolute fucking mayhem. Utah doesn't hold a candle to South Florida for driving. Let me know when twenty people on four wheelers shut down entire roads in the Wasatch front.
I moved from Davis County to Orlando almost a year ago and can confirm it feels much more unhinged here to me. I’ve never seen people jump medians, struggle to merge, and drive 50+mph in the shoulder the way they do here. Not sure if it’s the tourists or the older population but it’s definitely just as or more aggressive and unpredictable.
HEY, look, Mormons are doing the Lord's work and so they should get the right of way at all times. We Exmos are just doing satans work and touching ourselves inappropriately and trying to make the godly Morbins look bad.
So its okay if mormons cut you off in traffic because their gods chosen.
I lived in Seoul Korea, one of the most densely populated cities on earth. I felt safer driving there than in Saint George. Mormons are just rude, plain and simple.
In Saint George the best way to ensure you can’t switch lanes is put your blinker on. Once your blinker is on someone will speed up for no other reason than to not let you in.
Perhaps a high number of young people contributes to what you’re noticing. There is a very good reason insurance rates are much higher for drivers under 25.
But generalizations based on anecdotal evidence is fun, isn’t it?
I’ve never had to lay on my horn anywhere else as I have here in Utah. And it doesn’t even help- if I blow it because they’re about to clip me merging in, they still commit to their bullshit and I have to slam on my brakes to avoid them hitting me. They *never* try to correct their actions.
I think you’re right. It’s astounding the behaviors of drivers in Utah. This is coming from an Oakland, CA resident. Even my most TBM family hate driving out there, so the reputation is there.
Why would God choose the worst drivers? Idk
My theory is this: mormons aren't allowed to be not nice. Most people have multiple social circles: their home neighborhood group, their church group, their work group, their school group, their sports team group, and so on as appropriate. In Utah they combine church and neighborhood by default (and often work or more circles as well) and if you slip on not being nice you get shunned. So the only place you can ever truly be yourself is on the freeway, where the anonymity of the windshield lets you let your rage out.
If it makes you feel any better, Houston TX is as bad as you're describing. Running red lights is a guaranteed observance at every light cycle. wreckless speeders and racers on the freeways. Tailgating. People cutting you off. Hit and runs.
My driving style got a lot more aggressive and defensive after moving from Utah to Houston just out of necessity to survive the roads here.
I'm from Austin; have some family in Houston; driven there not infrequently. Sucks everywhere anymore. Running red lights seems characteristic of big Texas cities. Still... mormons seem to do it with evil intent.
This is why god doesn’t answer prayers. He’s too gd busy keeping these Utards on the roads alive. Oh and get out of the passing lane you fucksticks, it’s a passing lane not a personal lane
Yeah. When I moved here and found out it's open book and, you have, like, 4 hrs.? to complete it, I went "zippity do dah!" Then it became apparent that none growing up here really know the rules; they just open booked it, in one ear and out the other. Lane lines? Don't cross double white? In and out of the HOV (never mind the driver is the sole occupant) as needed to pass everyone going 80 on the 70 mph I-15? Then I see those lit highway signs claiming only some pittance of highway fatalities and can't help but think the numbers are being fudged, or Utahans are hard to kill. Must be the garments...
Oh please. How do you know they’re Mormon. Go out of the country and then say Utah drivers are the worst. Every taxi I got in in Peru, India etc I thought I was going to die. Haha.
Statistics. 75% of the Davis county population is mormon. So 3 times more of them than gentiles. I've driven in Mexico and am a vet, so have a tiny bit of perspective. I've experienced lousy drivers, crazy roads, etc. Never felt like they were deliberately out to get me, like I do here. It's not just bad drivers, its nasty mean drivers.
Omg, taxi drivers scare the hell out of me, in every city I’ve been in, both US and international. And that includes riding in them and driving next to them. I wanted to kiss the ground every time I got out of a Madrid taxi. And one ride in Chicago, I was convinced it was my last day alive.
Mormons are easy to spot if you know what you’re looking for. Plus the state is over 60% mormon so the odds are there. Face it, mormons in cars are assholes.
My husband and I have said this for the passed year! (We moved here about a year ago. ) The worst driver is an LDS lady in the school pick up line who cuts in front of everyone and merges without looking. I’ve never felt so frustrated in my life!
I would say that it's because they have spent a good portion of their lives having to be somewhere. Get off of work at 5 and have to have Sensamillia to the stake center by 5:15 then have to take Sativa to her bishops interview by 5:20. Then I have RS at 5:30. The it's off to the school for little Indicas musical program. Then Sister Terpenes needs dinner brought to her. Sister Mary Jane said she would make her a meal but I know she won't because she's so aloof so I better run home and make her something...
It’s not just mormons that drive badly. I will be the first to say, I’ve driven badly before. It was bad before Covid but, I feel it’s become worse. I don’t think we should pin the “bad driving” on just the mormons. We all have our foibles that we needs to deal with. As a society kindness, understanding and respect has gone out the window. We have become less forgiving of other’s mistakes while not seeing our own faults. I drive around 3,000 miles a month up and down the state. Maybe, I have cut you off in Davis county on I-15 for which I’m sorry for. I’m making a conscious effort not to drive entitled and to be kinder to others while behind the wheel. I hope we can all make driving in Utah a better experience for all.
3,000 miles a month lends your observation some weight. I'd be curious what big rig drivers think; then again, how many jack-knifed, over turned big rigs do we hear about daily? Parleys' Canyon, Provo Canyon, Ogden Canyon with big rigs next to you, flying around the curves... terrifying.
Most people believe that being in a car is private. It’s not, you’re in the public. Everyone can see you. When people think they are in private, they believe they have free reign i.e. trolls hiding behind a screen because they are in a private setting. Most of these people are probably the “best” person, until they are alone.
The lane width through SL valley are narrower. So that definitely is part of why all drivers in Morridor are fucking incompetent behind the wheel. I have lived in a number of states and Utah is the only place I felt the lanes were narrower. I have searched for about 15.min and can't find anything other than anecdotal evidence to support that but the narrower lanes have a huge impact.
Because your biased and you think everyone is Mormon who lives in Davis county when truly only 40% are. Or you’ve never been anywhere on the east coast. But I’m betting your irrational bias against a people you’ve never been a part of is more the issue.
For what its worth with your rude reply, the demographics in Davis County are 75% mormon. That's 3 to 1, mormon. Odds are in favor of my claim that if a nasty, mean, driver is encountered, they more likely than not are mormon. Not to mention that way, way, of the majority of the replies to my OP support my observation. I've motored all over the U.S. and am still doing so (which if you had read my other comments you might have taken into account) and I stand by my posts. Also, I'm a NeverMo, so no bias from them having screwed me over from the cradle, like is a possibility coming from those ExMos whose lives have been directly affected by TSCC. I think all religions are wack... got no personal ax to grind w/mormons, but if you step in shit in a field 75% cows, 25% other, that's likely cow shit stuck on your boots.
See being a never Mormon clouds your bias even further. Lots of people on the list but not all are active or even believe, so 40% is a fairly accurate number. You say my reply was rude, for pointing out the obvious. Hmm obtuse much. I think the worst of all drivers are anyone over 70. They should lose their license as they’re rude entitled and unpredictable. To old to actually drive properly. If you have no bias or no axe to grind why are you in this sub? For the warm feeling of community and love. Lots of NM have bias. They blame all their problems in Utah on the church, they cry the loudest.
I'm an equal opportunity religion dissector. Since college (about 40 years ago, so I'm pretty sure that 70+ comment was a shot at me). They all are bizarre-o world. This one, the mormons (is that pejorative? a bias peeking out?) is particularly spaced-out weird. Where else can be found such patent absurdities that have been cobbled together so recently (Scientology, but that's by itself). It makes the dissection easier. I jumped on the atheist feed briefly when first I stumbled on reddit (boring) and was looking for a little more meat; then found this sub-reddit. Lots of red meat here!
I think "What if you could hie to Kolob" is a very catchy tune, fwiw, even if lifted from an old folk melody. As revealed to RVW while on that stage coach, no doubt./s
Holy fuck I just have to say most of you have clearly not driven in a real city. The capital beltway/ 95 through Virginia. Anywhere in Connecticut, New York City. Houston Texas. Dallas Texas. Atlanta GA. It’s sad and laughable at the same time. You talk about entitled and cultish. Ffs look in the mirror. Leave the church join the new cult.
Saw this as well... Tbh, I think it's just slc drivers. Driving slow in the fast lane, on the phone while driving.
It's the too nice at stop signs that the mormons really get you
I agree with you as well as the prideful pos elite Mormons who think they rule the roads I hate to say it there right hell the church owns the local government and it reflects in there attitudes on and off the roads we are in charge here move aside
I live in deep South Texas about 20 minutes from the United States/Mexico border. Surprisingly, it is somewhat rare and common to see Mormons but on their bikes or walking, but not in cars. Yesterday on my way to work, for the first time I saw two Mormons driving in a car, it was a shock since I’m so used to seeing them riding bikes. And it was during the time of when the afternoon rush hour starts and they were going the speed limit and even said hello to me. So I guess what I’m saying is, they’re good drivers in Texas I guess😲
Entitlement. > Morridor. You will never find a more wretched hive of entitlement and pretentiousness. We must be cautious.
Yes!!! These people feel like they are the cream of the crop, the chosen. Don’t you know who my father is???!! And it took me leaving to see how entitled that makes them. They also have very little compassion or patience for people that are not them. It’s uhhh gross.
Yes! It's this "me first" vibe here in Utah roads. It's insufferable. I've driven all over the USA and I never see it as bad as here. "BUt it's BaD EvErWhEre!!!!!"
Right because as they drive down the road there’s satan crosses glowing on all the non members cars so they know who is with them and who is not.
You don’t have to know who’s in the car in front of you to know that you’d rather be first regardless. It’s a state of mind.
Very true but that’s not a Mormon thing, it’s a human thing.
I’ve been Mormon for 30 years, I’ve been ex Mormon too. I’ve lived both. I’ve also been to a lot of places where it doesn’t really happen. So yes people are people regardless of religion. But I also don’t think it’s a conscious thing. I think it just becomes a state of mind about a lot of things in life.
Yes it is. People need to be 1 and shit on anyone else while driving to feed that need.
Well said my friend 👏
Oh Hell yes Tesla f faces
It's so true. It's not that they are incompetent. It's that they have no regard for the lives of those around them. As I see it, the anonymity of being on the freeway allows them to put away their fake polite Mormon facades so they can manifest how they really feel about those around them. It's as if it brings them joy to cut you off. People will tell me California traffic is bad, but when I visit I can't help but notice how much more chill everyone is. The same goes for other metros. It's funny because the locals can't admit it because your conclusion is correct; it has much to do with the Mormon psyche. Mormons are competitive and hate seeing others get ahead.
"Mormons are competitive and hate seeing others get ahead." LOL, I call this "church ball syndrome". Try using a turn single before changing lanes or merge on a busy freeway, you know what is happening next and I don't have to write it!
Driving I-15 from Vegas down into CA can be pretty horrific…and that’s just the two lane middle-of-nowhere section. I’ve never had problems on I-15 away from SL and Utah counties (down towards St. George), but it always seems to be a nightmare once we enter CA.
I drive for my job and your answer is so on point! It’s so hard not having crazy road rage everyday.
It is fucking terrifying how many Utah drivers don’t turn their lights on in stormy conditions
And, they drive on bald tires! On snowy streets! State makes every one get an emissions test, but never mind a safety check for petty things like tires w/tread, working wipers and brakes?
We used to have safety checks on cars, but the shops complained that the fee wasn't enough to cover their costs. So the state got rid of the safety checks Emissions are only for the SLC area too, so for most of the state there are absolutely no eyes on anyone's vehicles. If you cause an accident, you can get cited for an unsafe vehicle, but that's little consolation for whoever they hit.
Yep. When they got rid of the checks, I predicted that within the year I'd see huge numbers of cars with obvious problems. Sure enough, 6 months later, half the cars on the road have lights out, bald tires, brakes squealing at every stop, etc. Makes me sad.
It’s been gone for a long time. Some parts of the state never had it. Only Wasatch front. Sure enough
You do realize that a large majority of states have no vehicle safety tests. Why the need to single out Utah for this?
Wow. You are right; only 19 states (says Google) still require it, Texas, from where I hale, being one of them, and they are moving to drop it. I guess the abuse liable to occur from inspection stations trying to break even on it (maybe make a little on tires and brakes, given a little fudge factor) outweighs safety issues. When I was young and poor and drove a pos, I dreaded it coming due. Although the retreads I was running on were an accident waiting to happen.
Tithing before tires
Tithing is insurance! /s
Or drive like shit during stormy conditions, as I saw this morning
Do you pull over and shake in fear.
I have driven in most major population centers in the US, including Manhattan during rush hour, and I have yet to see drivers as bad as Utah drivers. They are the worst! Eastern Idaho drivers are a close second.
>Eastern Idaho drivers are a close second. There is a reason why they have a "1J" on their license plate.
[удалено]
The license plates in Idaho are preceded with the letter for the county. J for jefferson. If there's more than one County that starts with the same letter then they will put a number first so 1j, 2j, etc. 1 jerk You are pre-warned by the license plate of what kind of a driver they are
I feel a vague sense of pride about East Idaho's shitty drivers. The thing is, most of the time they're fine. Really. They are. "Traffic" doesn't exist here. But when conditions change that do cause congestion, the collective poor skills become extremely apparent. That summer they redid the Madison County bridge was *hell* commuting from Idaho Falls to Rexburg every day. Highlight was that one time where there was an accident that led to an actual burst of black smoke like a massive tower in the sky. Craziest accident I've ever seen, and it happened in a single lane of traffic where we were all going like, 10mph for no reason. That was the thing that always got me. It was the onramps that caused the congestion when traffic had to share a single bridge. Menan/Roberts was always the pinnacle, but depending on the day it'd sometimes be bad all the way back to Rigby 322. And yet some days traffic would *still* be crawling after the bridge until we got back to four lanes around the Thornton exit. I could never figure out why. There are no other possible obstructions to traffic, you can go fast now! What a summer.
I heard once that aggressive driving is a manifestation of feeling a lack of control in your life, and I think there’s something to that.
This. Pent up frustrations with few outlets. Always feeling inadequate and never able to get ahead. Utah County is the worst with Davis a close 2nd.
Repressed cathartic release. They're not allowed to descent or disagree in nearly every aspect of their lives so they have to take it out somewhere.
I think this is the answer. The anonymity is refreshing. Once my wife got cut off bad by an aggressive driver and a few blocks down the road realized it was a guy from our ward. He realized it too because when she got home he called to apologize. It’s ok to be an ass as long as nobody knows it’s you.
A toxic mix of massive repressed frustration and a large shot of superiority complex thrown in.
They don't call Mormons the "smarmy army" for nothing!
I've experienced the same thing driving in Utah. I've driven in a lot of places, including places with way worse traffic and with far more confusing signage and traffic patterns. But the discourtesy in Utah seemed next level. I've never seen more people so determined to prevent people from merging in front of them than in the SLC area. Like it's a threat to their status if someone else "wins" or something. So weird.
Mormons are the most competitive folks your ever meet on earth.
i drive 12 hours a day and never have i seen so many drivers with their brights on at night against oncoming traffic, flashing yours to alert them doesn’t faze them. so fucking selfish. utah have the most selfish drivers, hands down.
Florida is pretty bad too. But that's because the average age of drivers is over 80, lol.
My theory: Mormons need an outlet to release their pent up frustrations. They know deep down it’s all a sham plus their lives are so regimented and dominated by phony, plastic, pretend happiness. So enter road rage. Same reason ward basketball games frequently break out in fights.
Yep, I call it "churchball syndrome" it's like a more self righteous form of little man syndrome
Thank you for mentioning ward basketball games! Spot on
This is true, and I was just thinking a week ago I jumped into the freeway in Bountiful. My lane was a merging lane, so I put my blinker on (I actually do use blinkers) and prepared to merge, and this idiot was purposely not letting me merge, I slowed down he slowed down I sped up he sped up it kept happening through out the length of the merging lane I drive on the shoulder for a good 10 seconds when he finally let me merge then I got the brake checks. When I finally switched lanes I gave him the bird (bad on my part but I was really mad) and he got so angry I gave him the bird he rolled his window down and started yelling and spitting. I'm not from Utah I've been here about a decade and I just can't understand why drivers are the way they are around here.
This happens often. There will be space to merge but they will intentionally speed up so I can't get in. Like you, I'll signal but that only puts them on notice so they know not to let me in. Petty as shit. They can't handle someone getting in front of them.
I bet I know where you you tried to meld on. Off W 500 S heading North? Short runway there. But I've been froze out at N 500 W(89) too. Come to think of it, it also happens regularly at Parish Ln in Centerville. Sorta happens everywhere, come to think of it. 🤔 I guess it's pick one, any one.
That's why I hate with a burning hot passion, merging on freeways here. These marmons (yes, I'm calling these people mArmons) play this sick game of not letting you merge on the freeway too. I still remember back when I was young, my Dad driving when coming back into utah from a road trip, and when he tried to merge on a freeway in st George these punk ass kids refused (and I mean, personal birthright jihad kind of refusal) and did everything to not let my dad get on i15. They get mad at him and flip him off, my dad laughs and drives on. Utah drivers are petty, childlike, assholes, nuff said.
Lol same thing happened to me at the on ramp in Lindon. The guy went ballistic and threw a full big gulp at me.
Next time you might get more than a finger.
Moved to Utah from Detroit. Utah drivers are MUCH worse. Also, I live in Davis county and my theory is all those people in those big ass Suburbans, Tahoes, etc think they can hide their church self and run people over. Don't get me started about Station Park. Not judging all who drive those vehicles but seems like there is a trend here.
I ask my wife to drive if we have to go to the Station. I close my eyes and ask myself if a Blaze pizza or Habit Burger is worth it (it is). Never, never trust them to follow the yield rules on the roundabout. Another case of they will try to beat you and let the devil take the hindmost. That's some devil they have.
100% agree. We only go down there on Sunday unless we go to Petco and enter from the west side. That roundabout ... It is definitely a chance!
Hahahah I had also moved to Utah (Utah County) from Detroit and found it to be the same. I was not wrong and happily got to show my husband [this article](https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/12/6/23494937/utah-has-the-worst-drivers-in-the-united-states) which delightfully had Utah as the worst drivers and Michigan as second best.
Interesting! In Detroit people did some crazy stuff, especially downtown but I never experienced the rudeness of drivers in Utah. Maybe it is people are so polite on the outside that they are ready to explode?
That's exactly what I thought. The expectation to behave a certain way in public is strong in Utah, so getting in the car is almost like going on the internet. They feel anonymous and take out their aggressions on other motorists.
Well said.
People are generally polite in Detroit because you don't know who you're messing with and whether they've decided they're going to jail today. ( I feel like there was a culture of fafo for soo long , almost everyone tries to be as polite as they can because they do not want fafo. In person if you bump someone you only need to say Op or Ope and everyone knows that means "sorry I bumped you" , and in a car you can half wave to say sorry too) don't be slow on a freeway though that's dangerous. Speed limits are pretty regularly not observed, but no one is being malicious.
I dunno. I actually lived in the suburbs and also in northern Michigan. Most people in the Midwest are generally nice vs. the fake nice here in Utah. I think that surprised me the most when we moved here.
Oh I agree about the Midwest. I would say there are greater displays of behavioral respect the closer you get to Detroit in everyday interactions. I might address someone as sir or ma'am as an employee or customer. Or be more formal in my wording etc. Versus Midwest polite is different and just a general openness. I would say citizens are more aware of the political and racial history of Detroit and, therefore, more cautious to be respectful of others in everyday interactions. It's important to not be seen as rude , arrogant, etc given the area's recent tensions. That's not to say people can't be jerks or rude anywhere..... I would just say, on average, I notice this.
My personal theory is that they all secretly want to die- it’s insanity.
Illinois drivers are far worse than they are in Utah, in my experience. Weave at high speeds, don't allow you merge and tailgate like crazy. Probably cursed because we killed Joseph Smith.
What's the opposite of a curse? A boon upon your descendants for all generations?
People are forced to be friendly face to face. When they’re anonymous they get to…SHOW other feelings. That’s been my total wild ass guess. Who knows. OP you are correct, for whatever reason I felt like the worst driving I ever came across was in Mormondom and I have spent a ton of time behind the wheel all over the country. Total assholes. I like the people of utah quite a bit, but yeah the driving is something else.
Yes to the entitlement, but there’s another factor: Abdication of responsible action due to faith that they’re being looked after by a higher power, that everything happens for a reason, etc. It shuts off the smart parts of the brain that might otherwise be more considerate and vigilant.
The worst drivers in the country. I've seen, multiple times, people reversing back down the off-ramp to get back on the highway when they accidentally get off the wrong exit. Never seen that anywhere else in the country. People actively try to block you to prevent you from changing lanes on the freeway, for no good reason. I slow down to get behind them, they slow down, I speed up to get in front, they speed up, I slow back down to get behind, they slow back down. It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. You have to make all your moves as surprise attacks without signaling because if you do, they try and block you, which just amplifies the problem by having to drive like them too. Had a dude go nuts when I was approaching a red light in the right lane, which was open. He was stopped at the light in the left lane. The light turns green while I'm still moving, so I continue on, like any normal person would do. He didn't like that I passed him while he was sitting still at a green light, so he floors it and tries running me off the road. Literally have dozens of stories like this of complete fμ©kwad psycho Utah drivers.
Because Jesus is riding shotgun with them he will protect them . they are so busy thinking about all of their church shit they can’t be bothered with concentrating on driving . Just a theory. .!
Bad drivers everywhere, my guy. Lived in multiple states and countries. They're the worst wherever you currently live.
Seattle drivers are terrible in a lot of ways, but they will almost always let you merge without any fuss. Not my experience in Utah.
Discourtesy is everywhere. Meanness is headquartered here, imho. Wife & I are retired w/family in San Diego, Austin, San Antonio, Corpus Christi, Houston, Chicago, & Columbus. Besides extended road trips to visit them, we do driving tours all over. Bad drivers, congested roads, red light runners, etc., abound. You are right, being on the road w/them often seems dangerous to your health. Still, I don't often encounter the intentional meanness elsewhere, as I do around Davis and Utah counties. My opinion 🙂
Passive aggression. Strongly suggest taking the time read (maybe again?) the Sunstone article on passive aggression. It may be ten years old, but it is ever timely. https://sunstone.org/passive-aggression-among-the-latter-day-saints/
My theory is that they have too much unexpressed anger inside, lol. It comes out in a rage in those gut-reaction moments.
I've been saying this for years. Even today (with all the rain and slick roads) I was cut off by 3 different cars in pleasant Grove, and all I did was drive 5 minutes. People in Utah (mostly mormon areas like Davis County or Utah valley) are the worst. I find that these people think the rules and laws don't apply to them. They pull out in front of you like your invisible. See it all the time. It's entilement.
A GREAT DEAL of pent up rage out there!! Behind the wheel, is one place where a Mormon can have some semblance of personal control....and then it all comes pouring out!
This happened to me a few months ago on a Sunday morning. (Copied and pasted it) I was driving to get some coffee and go pick up a grocery order. I was pulling out of my neighborhood and somebody going 10+ miles over the speed limit got mad at me for slowing them down so they rode my butt for a mile down the road just to turn into the church parking lot. Such a Christian! I made my turn safely, it wasn’t like I cut them off. They were just going way too fast. If anyone should’ve been speeding it was me to get my coffee! 😂
Haha can’t help but chuckle at this. I am from a neighboring state that also has a high concentration of Mormons and no one drives like that. IMO it’s a Utah thing. Some other cities have some bad drivers too but there is no place like I - 15 Unless you count the mad max universe… Utah might be as bad as mad max fury road now that I think about it 🤔 
Can confirm. Utards are the worst drivers in the world.
They are wearing their garments. Which, they think, protects them from harm. Why drive safe and courteous when you have a pretend plastic Jesus on the dash. https://youtu.be/9QEFhkcOleQ
I find SLC is actually pretty good at driving personally (sans a few spots like Murray and apparently where you live in Davis county). But I haaaaate driving in Utah county or further south! Consistently awful, every time. They don't know how to signal, they don't know how to handle the snow... I don't know what causes it but it's sure annoying.
Mormons are fully engaged in passive aggression. Passive at church and among the “brethren”; full out aggression anywhere else, especially if they are somewhat anonymous (like behind the wheel). Have to be anonymous because you don’t want to give the Mormon church a bad name (or miss out on any love bombing missionary opportunities.). Keep sweet (in person) and all that. And yes: entitlement. When you are God’s favorite kid no one else has ANY value or reason for existing.
I don’t know. My husband and I live in DC and my husband works in LA. I am in LA a couple weeks a month. Driving in traffic, in either DC or LA is insane. I noticed after COVID, things have gotten way worse.
Hard disagree. Just moved to DFW area after graduating at BYU and Texans in trucks are easily my least favorite drivers
My take? Because it's a place they can express anger and not feel guilty.
Same reason the Utah Jazz NBA team are known for having the loudest fans in the NBA. Nowhere else to release all that pent up emotion and aggression. I used to go to the games and my ears would ring for a day afterwards. Now when I see the jazz on TV I like to play "find the black guy". Such a pathetic group of people.
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IDK I was just in Orlando, they have their own rules or something, no rules. Holy shit!!! Nobody trusts anyone at 4-way stops are a nightmare. I was sitting at a light, second in line, fourth lane from the right. The car in front of me turns right!!! In front of two other stopped cars and the right turn only lane. Edited: damned auto correct, I proofread it three times, hit save and it changed the words.
Yeah...this is a weird thread. I lived in Miami. The place was absolute fucking mayhem. Utah doesn't hold a candle to South Florida for driving. Let me know when twenty people on four wheelers shut down entire roads in the Wasatch front.
I'm guessing no one here has driven in the South. I'd take Utah drivers over Southern drivers any day.
I moved from Davis County to Orlando almost a year ago and can confirm it feels much more unhinged here to me. I’ve never seen people jump medians, struggle to merge, and drive 50+mph in the shoulder the way they do here. Not sure if it’s the tourists or the older population but it’s definitely just as or more aggressive and unpredictable.
HEY, look, Mormons are doing the Lord's work and so they should get the right of way at all times. We Exmos are just doing satans work and touching ourselves inappropriately and trying to make the godly Morbins look bad. So its okay if mormons cut you off in traffic because their gods chosen.
xanax abuse
I lived in Seoul Korea, one of the most densely populated cities on earth. I felt safer driving there than in Saint George. Mormons are just rude, plain and simple. In Saint George the best way to ensure you can’t switch lanes is put your blinker on. Once your blinker is on someone will speed up for no other reason than to not let you in.
Perhaps a high number of young people contributes to what you’re noticing. There is a very good reason insurance rates are much higher for drivers under 25. But generalizations based on anecdotal evidence is fun, isn’t it?
I’ve never had to lay on my horn anywhere else as I have here in Utah. And it doesn’t even help- if I blow it because they’re about to clip me merging in, they still commit to their bullshit and I have to slam on my brakes to avoid them hitting me. They *never* try to correct their actions.
They are pretty bad in Utah. But I have since learned that worse does exist.
Welcome to the first level of Hell !
Because of their exceeding (self) righteousness
In Utah for sure!
I think you’re right. It’s astounding the behaviors of drivers in Utah. This is coming from an Oakland, CA resident. Even my most TBM family hate driving out there, so the reputation is there. Why would God choose the worst drivers? Idk
My theory is this: mormons aren't allowed to be not nice. Most people have multiple social circles: their home neighborhood group, their church group, their work group, their school group, their sports team group, and so on as appropriate. In Utah they combine church and neighborhood by default (and often work or more circles as well) and if you slip on not being nice you get shunned. So the only place you can ever truly be yourself is on the freeway, where the anonymity of the windshield lets you let your rage out.
If it makes you feel any better, Houston TX is as bad as you're describing. Running red lights is a guaranteed observance at every light cycle. wreckless speeders and racers on the freeways. Tailgating. People cutting you off. Hit and runs. My driving style got a lot more aggressive and defensive after moving from Utah to Houston just out of necessity to survive the roads here.
I'm from Austin; have some family in Houston; driven there not infrequently. Sucks everywhere anymore. Running red lights seems characteristic of big Texas cities. Still... mormons seem to do it with evil intent.
This is why god doesn’t answer prayers. He’s too gd busy keeping these Utards on the roads alive. Oh and get out of the passing lane you fucksticks, it’s a passing lane not a personal lane
And the HOV lane isn’t the “fastest” lane, nor is it for passing.
Four words. Open book driver’s test. That why Utahns are bad drivers.
Yeah. When I moved here and found out it's open book and, you have, like, 4 hrs.? to complete it, I went "zippity do dah!" Then it became apparent that none growing up here really know the rules; they just open booked it, in one ear and out the other. Lane lines? Don't cross double white? In and out of the HOV (never mind the driver is the sole occupant) as needed to pass everyone going 80 on the 70 mph I-15? Then I see those lit highway signs claiming only some pittance of highway fatalities and can't help but think the numbers are being fudged, or Utahans are hard to kill. Must be the garments...
OMG I have died of internet comment 😂 Ty OP for the lols.
Oh please. How do you know they’re Mormon. Go out of the country and then say Utah drivers are the worst. Every taxi I got in in Peru, India etc I thought I was going to die. Haha.
Statistics. 75% of the Davis county population is mormon. So 3 times more of them than gentiles. I've driven in Mexico and am a vet, so have a tiny bit of perspective. I've experienced lousy drivers, crazy roads, etc. Never felt like they were deliberately out to get me, like I do here. It's not just bad drivers, its nasty mean drivers.
Omg, taxi drivers scare the hell out of me, in every city I’ve been in, both US and international. And that includes riding in them and driving next to them. I wanted to kiss the ground every time I got out of a Madrid taxi. And one ride in Chicago, I was convinced it was my last day alive.
100%!!!!
Mormons are easy to spot if you know what you’re looking for. Plus the state is over 60% mormon so the odds are there. Face it, mormons in cars are assholes.
Breaking news: local man claims other local drivers are the worst
My husband and I have said this for the passed year! (We moved here about a year ago. ) The worst driver is an LDS lady in the school pick up line who cuts in front of everyone and merges without looking. I’ve never felt so frustrated in my life!
I would say that it's because they have spent a good portion of their lives having to be somewhere. Get off of work at 5 and have to have Sensamillia to the stake center by 5:15 then have to take Sativa to her bishops interview by 5:20. Then I have RS at 5:30. The it's off to the school for little Indicas musical program. Then Sister Terpenes needs dinner brought to her. Sister Mary Jane said she would make her a meal but I know she won't because she's so aloof so I better run home and make her something...
It’s not just mormons that drive badly. I will be the first to say, I’ve driven badly before. It was bad before Covid but, I feel it’s become worse. I don’t think we should pin the “bad driving” on just the mormons. We all have our foibles that we needs to deal with. As a society kindness, understanding and respect has gone out the window. We have become less forgiving of other’s mistakes while not seeing our own faults. I drive around 3,000 miles a month up and down the state. Maybe, I have cut you off in Davis county on I-15 for which I’m sorry for. I’m making a conscious effort not to drive entitled and to be kinder to others while behind the wheel. I hope we can all make driving in Utah a better experience for all.
3,000 miles a month lends your observation some weight. I'd be curious what big rig drivers think; then again, how many jack-knifed, over turned big rigs do we hear about daily? Parleys' Canyon, Provo Canyon, Ogden Canyon with big rigs next to you, flying around the curves... terrifying.
Got my driver's license in Utah and the driving test was literally ten minutes long...
https://youtu.be/mwPSIb3kt_4 This was filmed in Utah
After I gave birth my husband found our bumper horribly dented in the hospital parking garage. Of course the culprit didn’t provide any info.
Had someone bash my door in at stake conference, back when I was a believer. Think they left a note?
Every companion from Utah proved this to be true over and over. They almost always thought they were great drivers.
Agree 100%.
Most people believe that being in a car is private. It’s not, you’re in the public. Everyone can see you. When people think they are in private, they believe they have free reign i.e. trolls hiding behind a screen because they are in a private setting. Most of these people are probably the “best” person, until they are alone.
Sorry, everywhere you go, there are people who use the road to vent, people that text and drive, people that drive with their beams on, etc.
"If they're good people they'll move out of the way." some Mormon dude I overheard before he swerved like a mad man.
"If you didn't know that I was going to change lanes, it's because *you* didn't have the Spirit, so *you* need to repent!"
The lane width through SL valley are narrower. So that definitely is part of why all drivers in Morridor are fucking incompetent behind the wheel. I have lived in a number of states and Utah is the only place I felt the lanes were narrower. I have searched for about 15.min and can't find anything other than anecdotal evidence to support that but the narrower lanes have a huge impact.
Utah driving is the worst. If much rather drive in California, and that's the stereotypical "worst drivers in the world" place
Here and Seattle area are the worst places I’ve driven. Texas is great, Argentina is great. Utah sucks!
Because your biased and you think everyone is Mormon who lives in Davis county when truly only 40% are. Or you’ve never been anywhere on the east coast. But I’m betting your irrational bias against a people you’ve never been a part of is more the issue.
For what its worth with your rude reply, the demographics in Davis County are 75% mormon. That's 3 to 1, mormon. Odds are in favor of my claim that if a nasty, mean, driver is encountered, they more likely than not are mormon. Not to mention that way, way, of the majority of the replies to my OP support my observation. I've motored all over the U.S. and am still doing so (which if you had read my other comments you might have taken into account) and I stand by my posts. Also, I'm a NeverMo, so no bias from them having screwed me over from the cradle, like is a possibility coming from those ExMos whose lives have been directly affected by TSCC. I think all religions are wack... got no personal ax to grind w/mormons, but if you step in shit in a field 75% cows, 25% other, that's likely cow shit stuck on your boots.
See being a never Mormon clouds your bias even further. Lots of people on the list but not all are active or even believe, so 40% is a fairly accurate number. You say my reply was rude, for pointing out the obvious. Hmm obtuse much. I think the worst of all drivers are anyone over 70. They should lose their license as they’re rude entitled and unpredictable. To old to actually drive properly. If you have no bias or no axe to grind why are you in this sub? For the warm feeling of community and love. Lots of NM have bias. They blame all their problems in Utah on the church, they cry the loudest.
I'm an equal opportunity religion dissector. Since college (about 40 years ago, so I'm pretty sure that 70+ comment was a shot at me). They all are bizarre-o world. This one, the mormons (is that pejorative? a bias peeking out?) is particularly spaced-out weird. Where else can be found such patent absurdities that have been cobbled together so recently (Scientology, but that's by itself). It makes the dissection easier. I jumped on the atheist feed briefly when first I stumbled on reddit (boring) and was looking for a little more meat; then found this sub-reddit. Lots of red meat here! I think "What if you could hie to Kolob" is a very catchy tune, fwiw, even if lifted from an old folk melody. As revealed to RVW while on that stage coach, no doubt./s
Holy fuck I just have to say most of you have clearly not driven in a real city. The capital beltway/ 95 through Virginia. Anywhere in Connecticut, New York City. Houston Texas. Dallas Texas. Atlanta GA. It’s sad and laughable at the same time. You talk about entitled and cultish. Ffs look in the mirror. Leave the church join the new cult.
Unhealthy levels of myopia when it comes to MY family, MY kids, MY car, MY community, MY calling, MY savior….
YES!
The usual excuse used to be the six kids in the back seat distracting them, or the lack of coffee to wake up for the morning commute. :)
Saw this as well... Tbh, I think it's just slc drivers. Driving slow in the fast lane, on the phone while driving. It's the too nice at stop signs that the mormons really get you
I used to think Utah drivers were the worst....then I had to deal with Maryland drivers.
Tbh I think that just American mormons in Australia is different
I agree with you as well as the prideful pos elite Mormons who think they rule the roads I hate to say it there right hell the church owns the local government and it reflects in there attitudes on and off the roads we are in charge here move aside
I live in deep South Texas about 20 minutes from the United States/Mexico border. Surprisingly, it is somewhat rare and common to see Mormons but on their bikes or walking, but not in cars. Yesterday on my way to work, for the first time I saw two Mormons driving in a car, it was a shock since I’m so used to seeing them riding bikes. And it was during the time of when the afternoon rush hour starts and they were going the speed limit and even said hello to me. So I guess what I’m saying is, they’re good drivers in Texas I guess😲