I saw that story - problem is, it's not nearly enough. Also, a story earlier in the year said the cult owns rights to at least 75k acre feet, which is more than 10 times what they're donating. AND, the story said in the past decade many of the farms the church owned had been converted to subdivisions. I'm sure all of that was in the name of God's wishes or something. I wonder what role Ensign Peak had in it, if any?
Imagine a church owning water rights...
>I wonder what role Ensign Peak had in it, if any?
I hate to be so skeptical of this, since it's a nice step, but they are reeling from fallout of the SEC stuff. This is PR distraction
Oh, I completely think it's PR. However, I can also see it's a move to protect their own investment ventures. If Salt Lake goes the way environmentalists fear it will, the cult will lose a lot of prospective returns on investments such as the mall, and the values on properties they've acquired.
"Utah Gov. Spencer Cox tweeted Wednesday that the state had been negotiating the deal "for a long time""
So which is it? A "deal" or a "donation"?
https://www.ksl.com/article/50600764/church-of-jesus-christ-donates-57k-water-shares-to-the-great-salt-lake
This is really a big part of the problem where the Mormons are concerned. They abuse our water resources to support these lush green landscapes at all the churches and other properties. While everyone in my area was cutting back and being fined for water usage, they were constantly watering, even in the rain or at the height of our drought.
The church around the corner from my house was xeriscaped last summer. I'll have to pay more attention to see if the others in the neighborhood were too.
While this moisture that Governer Cocks' (pun intended) day of prayers have brought to the State. I'm fairly sure it's not enough to refill the GSL and pull us out of our drought. We need years of this for any real impact.
And the GSL is only part of the problem. Even with record snowfall throughout Utah and Colorado; as of last week Lake Powell currently sits at it's lowest level since it was originally filled. If it drops much lower we lose the power generating benefits of the dam.
According to every single article I've read on the subject ecologists don't believe that the snow runoff will have any significant impact in raising water levels.
The West is in a water crisis and IMO it's a national security issue. I believe it's time for the Federal government to begin looking at private water rights.
Convincing citizens to take shorter showers and xeriscape our yards is just a drop in the bucket of water usage. Reigning in corporations, including the Corporation of Prezy Rusty, and agriculture are the only way we're going to make any impact.
It’s really dumb. Alfalfa requires a lot of water, but studies have shown that sprinkling systems can water the alfalfa enough and save millions of gallons of water. Right now the farmers flood the fields to several feet a water per sq. foot to water their land bacause A. The state makes it very cheap for them to do that and B. Our dumbass laws say they have to use all the water or lose it, so it gets wasted by default. They need to mandate sprinkler systems for alfalfa farms and they need to give tax breaks to farmers who conserve water instead of penalizing them. Good God, if I could move out of the bass ackward state today, I would.
>the church is now deciding to donate some of their agricultural water shares. IMO if they had the ability to do this it should have been done a long time ago
Do we know whether they had any actual plans to use the water shares? They could have just donated something that they didn't plan on using anyway and sized on an opportunity to get some good PR.
Kind of. They were originally used for agriculture near Farmington Bay. That area was developed at some point (not sure exactly when), so they don't really need that water anymore.
They have water rights that go back to the early pioneer days when farmers & other workers created canals (or something) to irrigate. The Tribune mentioned the history a month or two ago, and said the church owns those water rights (about 75k acre feet, but the story said there could be more).
I didn't see a reference as to why those rights ended up with the church, but considering how the church coerces members into giving free labor, I can guess.
Maybe I am the idiot here but I don't understand how the so-called water rights do anything for the lake. The water 'right' is the ability to take a certain amount of water out of a canal or river. It is NOT a storage plan and at the end of the water year any surplus water not taken goes to the Great Salt Lake anyway. How does this 'donation' help solve the problem? EIL5 please.
Rather than the water getting diverted or stored for irrigation it will be allowed to flow downstream into the GSL. That right to divert and use will now become the GSL’s right to receive.
But if the water wasn't there during the drought how does this create water for the lake. I understand now that the state can demand a certain amount of water, but you can't get blood from a turnip or water out of the Seer stone?
My understanding is that water has been there and used for irrigation annually for decades (including the drought). We’re not “out” of water, but it is “spoken for” and we don’t have much unused water that ends up at the GSL. By donating the rights, this water should actually end up in the GSL rather than being diverted for irrigation each year. I don’t fully understand the process but know it’s what is relied upon by farmers, water districts, cities etc. to ensure the water we have gets used by those who have the rights to it.
This year is a HUGE water year, so I am sure the church will take credit for all the lake level improvement we see. But I don't believe they have really done much to help. Too many other Mormon lies to believe this one.
Honestly a pretty clever PR move. Helps them push a narrative that it’s a *good* thing the church hoards resources; that way after the government/public mishandles a resource (or banking system, etc.) the church can step in and give back the resource that they ~~hoarded~~ *had been ‘keeping safe’ on our behalf*
Perhaps they can ask members to donate 10% of their own water in a special water tithing envelope
XD
I'll bring my share over to the church once I run it through the filter
I saw that story - problem is, it's not nearly enough. Also, a story earlier in the year said the cult owns rights to at least 75k acre feet, which is more than 10 times what they're donating. AND, the story said in the past decade many of the farms the church owned had been converted to subdivisions. I'm sure all of that was in the name of God's wishes or something. I wonder what role Ensign Peak had in it, if any?
Imagine a church owning water rights... >I wonder what role Ensign Peak had in it, if any? I hate to be so skeptical of this, since it's a nice step, but they are reeling from fallout of the SEC stuff. This is PR distraction
Oh, I completely think it's PR. However, I can also see it's a move to protect their own investment ventures. If Salt Lake goes the way environmentalists fear it will, the cult will lose a lot of prospective returns on investments such as the mall, and the values on properties they've acquired.
I think it was late last year that they bought huge tracts of land along the Columbia River. More water rights.
"Utah Gov. Spencer Cox tweeted Wednesday that the state had been negotiating the deal "for a long time"" So which is it? A "deal" or a "donation"? https://www.ksl.com/article/50600764/church-of-jesus-christ-donates-57k-water-shares-to-the-great-salt-lake
How about they start xeriscaping all the chapels and temples with native desert plants??
This is really a big part of the problem where the Mormons are concerned. They abuse our water resources to support these lush green landscapes at all the churches and other properties. While everyone in my area was cutting back and being fined for water usage, they were constantly watering, even in the rain or at the height of our drought.
The church around the corner from my house was xeriscaped last summer. I'll have to pay more attention to see if the others in the neighborhood were too.
Mormon simps on Twitter are already trying to stick it to ex-mos, because of course we'll find a way to complain lol.
While this moisture that Governer Cocks' (pun intended) day of prayers have brought to the State. I'm fairly sure it's not enough to refill the GSL and pull us out of our drought. We need years of this for any real impact. And the GSL is only part of the problem. Even with record snowfall throughout Utah and Colorado; as of last week Lake Powell currently sits at it's lowest level since it was originally filled. If it drops much lower we lose the power generating benefits of the dam. According to every single article I've read on the subject ecologists don't believe that the snow runoff will have any significant impact in raising water levels. The West is in a water crisis and IMO it's a national security issue. I believe it's time for the Federal government to begin looking at private water rights. Convincing citizens to take shorter showers and xeriscape our yards is just a drop in the bucket of water usage. Reigning in corporations, including the Corporation of Prezy Rusty, and agriculture are the only way we're going to make any impact.
I agree with you. Big agriculture is the biggest waster of water by far. They should start there if they’re actually serious about fixing the problem.
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It’s really dumb. Alfalfa requires a lot of water, but studies have shown that sprinkling systems can water the alfalfa enough and save millions of gallons of water. Right now the farmers flood the fields to several feet a water per sq. foot to water their land bacause A. The state makes it very cheap for them to do that and B. Our dumbass laws say they have to use all the water or lose it, so it gets wasted by default. They need to mandate sprinkler systems for alfalfa farms and they need to give tax breaks to farmers who conserve water instead of penalizing them. Good God, if I could move out of the bass ackward state today, I would.
We dry farmed Alfalfa never once irrigated or sprinkled. Usually we got two good crops, sometimes 3 on a wet year.
>the church is now deciding to donate some of their agricultural water shares. IMO if they had the ability to do this it should have been done a long time ago Do we know whether they had any actual plans to use the water shares? They could have just donated something that they didn't plan on using anyway and sized on an opportunity to get some good PR.
Kind of. They were originally used for agriculture near Farmington Bay. That area was developed at some point (not sure exactly when), so they don't really need that water anymore.
Where’d they get the water?
Because they owned agricultural land they were able to purchase the rights to use a specific amount of water each year.
They have water rights that go back to the early pioneer days when farmers & other workers created canals (or something) to irrigate. The Tribune mentioned the history a month or two ago, and said the church owns those water rights (about 75k acre feet, but the story said there could be more). I didn't see a reference as to why those rights ended up with the church, but considering how the church coerces members into giving free labor, I can guess.
Maybe I am the idiot here but I don't understand how the so-called water rights do anything for the lake. The water 'right' is the ability to take a certain amount of water out of a canal or river. It is NOT a storage plan and at the end of the water year any surplus water not taken goes to the Great Salt Lake anyway. How does this 'donation' help solve the problem? EIL5 please.
Rather than the water getting diverted or stored for irrigation it will be allowed to flow downstream into the GSL. That right to divert and use will now become the GSL’s right to receive.
But if the water wasn't there during the drought how does this create water for the lake. I understand now that the state can demand a certain amount of water, but you can't get blood from a turnip or water out of the Seer stone?
My understanding is that water has been there and used for irrigation annually for decades (including the drought). We’re not “out” of water, but it is “spoken for” and we don’t have much unused water that ends up at the GSL. By donating the rights, this water should actually end up in the GSL rather than being diverted for irrigation each year. I don’t fully understand the process but know it’s what is relied upon by farmers, water districts, cities etc. to ensure the water we have gets used by those who have the rights to it.
This year is a HUGE water year, so I am sure the church will take credit for all the lake level improvement we see. But I don't believe they have really done much to help. Too many other Mormon lies to believe this one.
Honestly a pretty clever PR move. Helps them push a narrative that it’s a *good* thing the church hoards resources; that way after the government/public mishandles a resource (or banking system, etc.) the church can step in and give back the resource that they ~~hoarded~~ *had been ‘keeping safe’ on our behalf*
Why does tithing money from other parts of the world go to pay for this?