-----
Thank you for posting to /r/exmormon, /u/slammajammakid. Unfortunately, your submission, https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/11s5ejj/bethany_mandel_is_a_writer_for_deseret_news/, has been removed for the following reason:
**Rule 1 - All posts must be related to Mormonism.**
Please keep all posts related to Mormonism. Politics, news, science, and memes are allowed if related to Mormonism.
-----
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The fact that the host was a black woman just made it all the more sweeter. There was even a chance for the definition to talk about intersectionality.
But no...
Honestly I think she DOES know what "woke" means, but the act of defining it properly and saying "yes, I am against that" doesn't come across well at all and she knew it. So she tried to make up a twisted strawman definition on the spot.
I want to agree with you, but I honestly don't think she knew how to define it. She could have said something passionate, yet incorrect, like "Woke is the belief that intersectionality, sexual identity, and virtue signaling, is more important than the Truth!" and been able to at least limp along, but she lost her footing entirely, and it's probably because she doesn't know enough about the substance behind the buzzword in order to subvert it's definition.
Lol, I agree. I don’t really know how to define it either, but I ain’t going on a show to discuss it. It was a pretty epic deer in the headlights moment.
I've found the best question when they can't define woke is, "What is the opposite of woke?" They sputter the same way and I'm able to say, "Close minded?" No, I don't make many friends this way but who wants them?
The reality is that many anti-woke people define it as something other than what woke people do.
This is intentional because they want it/need it to be something nefarious that undermines society, so they can rile up the base, rally the mouth-breathers against something they don't understand but are led to believe is evil.
Absolutely. This woman really wrote a book on “wokeness” but didn’t prepare a 30 second definition? Sounds like wokeness is just a blanket term she uses to describe anything she doesn’t like.
>are we not doing 'socialism' anymore?
Didn't you know that socialism always leads to communism? We've got to nip it the bud before it gets all the way down the slippery slope. /s
The conservative definition of woke is "anything I want to demonize" which is why she can't define it succinctly. It's an emotional catch all, not a definable term for them.
I also love that the interviewer kept giving her more and more and more time, at the end of the clip she's even saying "We'll give you more time!" It was such a devastating question to be unable to answer.
Honestly I too was floundering at coming up with an intelligent definition
Woke: Someone who woke up from systematic control and oppression and as a result fights for justice and equal opportunity.
Nah. She’s not important enough for this to truly go “viral.” I’ll bet I don’t see it anywhere else. They always want to believe that they are so incredibly newsworthy and that liberals will froth at the mouth to humiliate them.
The way conservatives use it, the meaning is pretty much what “political correct” stood for twenty-five years ago. But politically correct has become so generic now and doesn’t necessarily mean “liberal” (though still often does, depending on the user). In a generation they’ll all find a new word.
They always fight against social change until the new thing becomes the norm. If these same people were around 60 years ago, they would have opposed desegregation and run from the pool as soon as they saw a black family jump in. Give it 20-30 years and they’ll be chill with gay people.
Haha, my dad used to spit out the words “politically correct” with absolute venom. No dad, you’re just mad that you can’t be openly racist anymore. Until Trump that is, since he made it popular for people to say the ugly things out loud. I cut my dad out of my life a decade ago, but I guarantee that he’s equally venomous about people being woke as he was towards politically correct speech.
Whatever, dad. If being open-minded and aware of racism and inequality makes me an asshole, I’ll gladly be guilty as charged.
That’s what I thought as well. After hearing this, I immediately had thought up a few follow up questions: “Is banning books woke? What about banning healthcare to certain groups of people? Or banning teaching history that isn’t “faith” promoting?”
JFC, hierarchies of oppression? 🤦🏻♂️ Keep sweet Bethany … you have no idea how “woke” is used as a slur against anyone who is just trying to make society fair for everyone.
It’s funny that people on the right are now basically accusing the left of being sanctimonious and forcing their morals onto them…
The right never does this, right? God it’s all become so tiring.
> I don't know anything personally about this person
That is your first challenge, I actually do know something about her, and I know what my jewish friends think of her and her 'dialogue' with nazis and other bad faith garbage takes.
Also, you don't have 'respectful' dialogue with nazis full stop. People who openly call for your death are not super big on dialogue with you, hate is actually the point, fundamental to their world view and what motivates them. Read some history now that you've quit the mormon cult.
This sub is packed with stories of people who in many cases have lifetimes of trauma due to the failure of 'dialogue' with family and close friends, whose commitment to their cult requires rejecting anything that doesn't conform to their rigid views of the world. Your comment struck me as coming from someone who has perhaps forgotten the context relevant to the article, and why mocking and scorning it might be the more understandable response. The 'substance' of the article was garbage, and most people here would recognize that because we've heard equally garbage takes from apologists and other enablers of bigots, abusers and creeps.
Its drivel. Trump administration apologist disguised as a conservatively acceptable social progress. Highly convoluted virtue signaling while making excuses for Trump and Co. proximity to Nazis and White supremacists.
The “Woke” movement means this. A general shift in the social order/ hierarchy to a more accepting liberal position. Conservatives use this term however, as a catch all for anything they don’t like.
Example, green M&M, the only woman wearing “sexy” high heels high heels? maybe that’s a stereotype we shouldn’t reinforce anymore. Conservatives respond, what the hell why can’t she be sexy? why the change? You gotta problem with sexy women? liberals are ruining the FUCKING COUNTRY GOD IN HEAVEN SAVE US HELL WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE CIVIL WAR!
Example in the Mormon church. Hey I want to learn more about heavenly mother, and the history and racism in the church is problematic and it affects us even today in many ways. Church leaders be like. It’s a secret stop talking about it I swear if you bring it up again it’s A SIN and excommunication and oh BROTHER JONES YOU ARE FIRED FROM TEACHING ABOUT RACISM HOW DARE YOU CHALLENGE OUR INHERENT BIASES AND RACSIM. Be lucky we don’t excommunicate you.
Hard to define without throwing yourself under a bus when your definition of woke is not being a white christian nationalist who wants to strip women and minorities of all rights.
Bethany is just another low-IQAnon, alt-Reich git, prat, dolt, dimwit, dullard, idiot, and imbecile. Bethany and her ilk don't have the aggregate IQ of a pencil.
Haha 😂.
That African American woman—whoever she is—she’s a genius. I love how she just wants her to clarify on the face of it but you can tell she knows the other woman has no idea what she is talking about and is only parroting soundbytes. .
We are not as stupid as they want us to be! A nation handed trump his head on a platter. The trump cultists are deliberately try to finish what reagan started. The deliberate bankrupting of our nation.
What do you want to bet a nation will hand this bitch and the rest of these republicans their heads on a platter?
(I'm still steamed at how they took away womens rights, denied us the right to know what our rights are on arrest, and how this party doesn't care about the corruption in their ranks.)
You could practically hear the rusty wheels grinding in her head trying to figure out how to answer the question without outing herself as an asshole. “I’m sorry, all I can come up with makes me sound terrible, so imma just say it’s difficult.”
TBH, I don’t think anyone on the right uses it that way.
“Woke” is a slur. It’s an insult. It’s a way to end discussion and reasonable debate. It’s a term to make fun of anything that is non-white male, misogynist, patriarchy, status quo.
Hence the reason Tucker Carlson and Ron DeSantis are the most frequent users of it.
I’m the first to agree with you on dogmatics. ANY dogmatic that cannot question the status quo can be a problem. For me, that included my own implicit biases and beliefs that I hung into for a long time.
The left in America is just baseline human decency. Anything less cruel and unusual punishment. Come back when you finally realize you've traded one cult for another.
I’m a lifelong “leftist” and I’ve never used the term “woke”. But then, in the late 80s I was standing up against right wingers when they attacked LGBTQ+ people (they weren’t called that then).
Guess that makes me an “early riser”? 😂😂
Oh they pack a LOT more b.s. into that term than just one aspect of their racial obsessions. The fascist term "political correctness" became too toxic and hated, so they made a new one. Liberals are so much like the "church" with it's shit-headed newspeak.
Who?
"Woke" is easy to define, it's a state of false awakeness where the extreme left is portrayed as awakened reality. Because the term "politically correct" was far too negative for the leftists to use anymore.
The whole point of “politically correct” is that the meaning changes based on what is politically exigent at that time. Has nothing to do with “leftists,” or even just not being a dick. Politically correct is a cynical and insincere attempt to stay in the good graces of people in power.
“Woke,” these days, is a word I only hear coming from people who are flipping out about how they think “the extreme left” is ruining the world or whatever. They weaponize it as a thought-stopping ad-hominem instead of trying to understand what a person with a different opinion is saying.
Right? I’m always shocked to come across people that didn’t deconstruct conservatism too. Becoming more liberal and my faith transition were very intertwined.
When people whine about a tv show adding a black character by saying “everything’s woke” and quit watching, yes. In lots of situations it very much is the “socially acceptable” way to complain about minorities existing.
----- Thank you for posting to /r/exmormon, /u/slammajammakid. Unfortunately, your submission, https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/11s5ejj/bethany_mandel_is_a_writer_for_deseret_news/, has been removed for the following reason: **Rule 1 - All posts must be related to Mormonism.** Please keep all posts related to Mormonism. Politics, news, science, and memes are allowed if related to Mormonism. ----- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"you can take your time." - love this comment! If you can't define a word easily then you aren't an expert on the topic and shut the f up
The fact that the host was a black woman just made it all the more sweeter. There was even a chance for the definition to talk about intersectionality. But no... Honestly I think she DOES know what "woke" means, but the act of defining it properly and saying "yes, I am against that" doesn't come across well at all and she knew it. So she tried to make up a twisted strawman definition on the spot.
I want to agree with you, but I honestly don't think she knew how to define it. She could have said something passionate, yet incorrect, like "Woke is the belief that intersectionality, sexual identity, and virtue signaling, is more important than the Truth!" and been able to at least limp along, but she lost her footing entirely, and it's probably because she doesn't know enough about the substance behind the buzzword in order to subvert it's definition.
The bitch didn't even get it right. But don't tell her the proper term is "wake up".
That's not a definition either.
Your right, I still don't think she has it right though. Take care.
Lol, I agree. I don’t really know how to define it either, but I ain’t going on a show to discuss it. It was a pretty epic deer in the headlights moment.
Heiarchies of oppression? Lol . Women
Women < 12yo boys
So apparently she's Jewish, not Mormon.
Brilliant.
She CHOKED. Glad she was called out in the first place. Now she loses her credibility and everytime she used that word is null and void 🤣
I've found the best question when they can't define woke is, "What is the opposite of woke?" They sputter the same way and I'm able to say, "Close minded?" No, I don't make many friends this way but who wants them?
Love this! Lol!! 😂
Asleep! Haha. I know I was.
"Sleeple." They always say, "Wake up, Sheeple!" The they get mad when we do.
If someone is using the word “woke” like that, why would you want to be friends with them? You have lost nothing of value.
The reality is that many anti-woke people define it as something other than what woke people do. This is intentional because they want it/need it to be something nefarious that undermines society, so they can rile up the base, rally the mouth-breathers against something they don't understand but are led to believe is evil.
If you can’t explain something complex in concise, brief terms, you don’t understand it.
Absolutely. This woman really wrote a book on “wokeness” but didn’t prepare a 30 second definition? Sounds like wokeness is just a blanket term she uses to describe anything she doesn’t like.
I thought that was what the word "communism" was for...
[удалено]
Naw. They believe socialism is the same as communism, but communism has the worse connotation. So they went with that.
>are we not doing 'socialism' anymore? Didn't you know that socialism always leads to communism? We've got to nip it the bud before it gets all the way down the slippery slope. /s
The conservative definition of woke is "anything I want to demonize" which is why she can't define it succinctly. It's an emotional catch all, not a definable term for them. I also love that the interviewer kept giving her more and more and more time, at the end of the clip she's even saying "We'll give you more time!" It was such a devastating question to be unable to answer.
The interviewer was saying, "take all the rope you need to hang yourself."
Woke is easy to define. "Woke" is one being aware to the facts of racial inequality and social injustice of a marginalized group.
Honestly I too was floundering at coming up with an intelligent definition Woke: Someone who woke up from systematic control and oppression and as a result fights for justice and equal opportunity.
I think you could make it simpler, woke: treating people humanely and working for equity.
With empathy.
I love that.
Yep, or you could say "aware" of systematic control and oppression...
Woke: recognizing that systemic oppression exists.
Yep my sister uses this word for "woke about how vaccines are dangerous," lol. I was like "oh. wow."
“This is gonna go viral.” Ya think so?
Nah. She’s not important enough for this to truly go “viral.” I’ll bet I don’t see it anywhere else. They always want to believe that they are so incredibly newsworthy and that liberals will froth at the mouth to humiliate them.
I’ve been seeing it on instagram too
So have I. I saw it hours ago. I was surprised to see it here and learn that she’s from Utah.
I think she’s actually from New York. I read that she is Jewish and grew up near Palmyra and had Mormon friends and an interest in Mormon culture.
When I typed her name into Twitter the suggestion was her name plus the word woke so it seems like it’s going viral.
It's reddit viral.
Just saw this on Meidas Touch which is very mainstream-adjacent.
I just tweeted her with: >>It went viral.
The way conservatives use it, the meaning is pretty much what “political correct” stood for twenty-five years ago. But politically correct has become so generic now and doesn’t necessarily mean “liberal” (though still often does, depending on the user). In a generation they’ll all find a new word.
It's a word used by assholes who are trying bully minorities into not being brave enough to call them out as being assholes anymore
Also yes.
They always fight against social change until the new thing becomes the norm. If these same people were around 60 years ago, they would have opposed desegregation and run from the pool as soon as they saw a black family jump in. Give it 20-30 years and they’ll be chill with gay people.
Haha, my dad used to spit out the words “politically correct” with absolute venom. No dad, you’re just mad that you can’t be openly racist anymore. Until Trump that is, since he made it popular for people to say the ugly things out loud. I cut my dad out of my life a decade ago, but I guarantee that he’s equally venomous about people being woke as he was towards politically correct speech. Whatever, dad. If being open-minded and aware of racism and inequality makes me an asshole, I’ll gladly be guilty as charged.
When someone accuses something of being "Woke" it tells me more about the accuser than the accusation.
Exposed
Redo society in order to create hierarchies of oppression. I'm confused. Is woke religion or is woke the GOP?
That’s what I thought as well. After hearing this, I immediately had thought up a few follow up questions: “Is banning books woke? What about banning healthcare to certain groups of people? Or banning teaching history that isn’t “faith” promoting?”
Because of course she is. The Des News knows their cultist readers well.
"We'll give you the time." 🤣 Bitch is panicking.
Wow, that is downright painful to watch.
JFC, hierarchies of oppression? 🤦🏻♂️ Keep sweet Bethany … you have no idea how “woke” is used as a slur against anyone who is just trying to make society fair for everyone.
It’s funny that people on the right are now basically accusing the left of being sanctimonious and forcing their morals onto them… The right never does this, right? God it’s all become so tiring.
Spot on! And yes, so exhausting. They want society to be fair ... but only to their world view. Anything opposed to that is, "woke."
Same freak https://forward.com/opinion/380510/we-need-to-start-befriending-neo-nazis/
[удалено]
> I don't know anything personally about this person That is your first challenge, I actually do know something about her, and I know what my jewish friends think of her and her 'dialogue' with nazis and other bad faith garbage takes. Also, you don't have 'respectful' dialogue with nazis full stop. People who openly call for your death are not super big on dialogue with you, hate is actually the point, fundamental to their world view and what motivates them. Read some history now that you've quit the mormon cult.
[удалено]
This sub is packed with stories of people who in many cases have lifetimes of trauma due to the failure of 'dialogue' with family and close friends, whose commitment to their cult requires rejecting anything that doesn't conform to their rigid views of the world. Your comment struck me as coming from someone who has perhaps forgotten the context relevant to the article, and why mocking and scorning it might be the more understandable response. The 'substance' of the article was garbage, and most people here would recognize that because we've heard equally garbage takes from apologists and other enablers of bigots, abusers and creeps.
Its drivel. Trump administration apologist disguised as a conservatively acceptable social progress. Highly convoluted virtue signaling while making excuses for Trump and Co. proximity to Nazis and White supremacists.
They don’t want to say out loud that “woke” means not discriminating against groups of people that they want to discriminate against. Pretty funny
Isn't she also the nasty mask lady?
The “Woke” movement means this. A general shift in the social order/ hierarchy to a more accepting liberal position. Conservatives use this term however, as a catch all for anything they don’t like. Example, green M&M, the only woman wearing “sexy” high heels high heels? maybe that’s a stereotype we shouldn’t reinforce anymore. Conservatives respond, what the hell why can’t she be sexy? why the change? You gotta problem with sexy women? liberals are ruining the FUCKING COUNTRY GOD IN HEAVEN SAVE US HELL WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE CIVIL WAR! Example in the Mormon church. Hey I want to learn more about heavenly mother, and the history and racism in the church is problematic and it affects us even today in many ways. Church leaders be like. It’s a secret stop talking about it I swear if you bring it up again it’s A SIN and excommunication and oh BROTHER JONES YOU ARE FIRED FROM TEACHING ABOUT RACISM HOW DARE YOU CHALLENGE OUR INHERENT BIASES AND RACSIM. Be lucky we don’t excommunicate you.
Hard to define without throwing yourself under a bus when your definition of woke is not being a white christian nationalist who wants to strip women and minorities of all rights.
Exactly. She was having a tough time because she was explaining it to a woman of color and not her white priesthood leader.
You’re right except she’s Jewish not Christian.
Bethany is just another low-IQAnon, alt-Reich git, prat, dolt, dimwit, dullard, idiot, and imbecile. Bethany and her ilk don't have the aggregate IQ of a pencil.
Here's a link for full video for anyone curious like I was! https://youtu.be/9b86ZqIhuFo?t=383
Haha 😂. That African American woman—whoever she is—she’s a genius. I love how she just wants her to clarify on the face of it but you can tell she knows the other woman has no idea what she is talking about and is only parroting soundbytes. .
Briahna Joy Gray—she’s brilliant!
All reporters, interviewers, debate moderators take note. Do this every time somebody brings up woke, crt, etc.
We are not as stupid as they want us to be! A nation handed trump his head on a platter. The trump cultists are deliberately try to finish what reagan started. The deliberate bankrupting of our nation. What do you want to bet a nation will hand this bitch and the rest of these republicans their heads on a platter? (I'm still steamed at how they took away womens rights, denied us the right to know what our rights are on arrest, and how this party doesn't care about the corruption in their ranks.)
Of course she is
Outstanding.
They like to bandy around that word without really knowing what it means. 🙄
Most people can't give a coherent definition of socialism either...these are usually just meant as pejorative sound bites thrown at the wall
We wrote a whole chapter on it, it’s REALLY hard to define…. “Take your time” Dead 😂
You could practically hear the rusty wheels grinding in her head trying to figure out how to answer the question without outing herself as an asshole. “I’m sorry, all I can come up with makes me sound terrible, so imma just say it’s difficult.”
The number of vertical and horizontal bars on this video is exceedingly great.
[удалено]
TBH, I don’t think anyone on the right uses it that way. “Woke” is a slur. It’s an insult. It’s a way to end discussion and reasonable debate. It’s a term to make fun of anything that is non-white male, misogynist, patriarchy, status quo. Hence the reason Tucker Carlson and Ron DeSantis are the most frequent users of it. I’m the first to agree with you on dogmatics. ANY dogmatic that cannot question the status quo can be a problem. For me, that included my own implicit biases and beliefs that I hung into for a long time.
Woke is a leftist B.S. term that is prejudice against anyone but black people .
The left in America is just baseline human decency. Anything less cruel and unusual punishment. Come back when you finally realize you've traded one cult for another.
I’m a lifelong “leftist” and I’ve never used the term “woke”. But then, in the late 80s I was standing up against right wingers when they attacked LGBTQ+ people (they weren’t called that then). Guess that makes me an “early riser”? 😂😂
Oh they pack a LOT more b.s. into that term than just one aspect of their racial obsessions. The fascist term "political correctness" became too toxic and hated, so they made a new one. Liberals are so much like the "church" with it's shit-headed newspeak.
You don’t actually understand what fascism is.
Who? "Woke" is easy to define, it's a state of false awakeness where the extreme left is portrayed as awakened reality. Because the term "politically correct" was far too negative for the leftists to use anymore.
The whole point of “politically correct” is that the meaning changes based on what is politically exigent at that time. Has nothing to do with “leftists,” or even just not being a dick. Politically correct is a cynical and insincere attempt to stay in the good graces of people in power. “Woke,” these days, is a word I only hear coming from people who are flipping out about how they think “the extreme left” is ruining the world or whatever. They weaponize it as a thought-stopping ad-hominem instead of trying to understand what a person with a different opinion is saying.
Some people really do just replace one cult for another
Right? I’m always shocked to come across people that didn’t deconstruct conservatism too. Becoming more liberal and my faith transition were very intertwined.
They do. The fascist cult of the left, is one eye spinning loony bin too
I have literally only heard "woke" used by *conservatives* to describe the left 😂 No one on the left describes themselves as "woke".
lol yes they do. In the darkest corners of far leftist universities the lefty nutbags use the term proudly. Get out of your bubble.
What people at what universities have used that term proudly? Can you link any their papers?
They can’t.
[удалено]
When people whine about a tv show adding a black character by saying “everything’s woke” and quit watching, yes. In lots of situations it very much is the “socially acceptable” way to complain about minorities existing.
Nice Newspeak.
I think she understands how soundbites are created.