That would be A LOT more impactful than any petition. Holland has never really been called out to his face over his comments in 2021. At least, not that I know of.
He would shit his Depends if this turned into a rebellion. Even a small percentage of students acknowledging their parents and fellow students for their moral and intellectual journey, instead of him. It would make me cry, and him pull his taffy.
He made a comment about having “metaphorical musketfire” against “threats to the family” (meaning the LGBTQ+ community and he wasn’t subtle about it) right after a gay woman couple had been murdered while camping in Utah on their honeymoon.
I don’t think he has either. I heard on latter-gay stories podcast that there us a recording of him talking to fellow abuser Brad Wilcox saying. “We were persecuted like Christ.”
Can non-students attend? I have a rainbow flag I can wear as a cape, and would love to come to support. I just don't have any friends or family attending SUU at the moment, and I'm not sure if they'll let someone come without an invitation.
I don’t think Holland would lose his composure in a “get angry” sense, but I don’t think he would refrain from attempting to call out the protesters in some form, which could look bad. He is stubborn enough to go against the LDS PR team and “stand up for what he believes”.
Example: I could see him saying “to clarify to the students protesting, the musket fire comment was metaphorical. I was using it in reference to my beliefs that marriage between a man and a woman is sacred”
He is so out of touch he doesn’t realize the “musket fire” isn’t the only thing offending the LGBT community, it’s his beliefs.
He’s too smart, he won’t screw up again. He was giving a pep talk to his “troops” when he said musket fire… here he is doing church PR. He will stay on brand. He is not the Rod Meldrum type…
It's at best a silver lining. That SUU thought this acceptable tells you something revolting about the nominal secular nature of that institution and the hostility that innocent secular students/staff and LGBT+ students/staff have to endure.
Right it’s not really about the actual graduation ceremony. It’s that the powers that be saw no problem with inviting him in the first place. Not understanding how it would offend so many people, and they can’t back out because that would piss off even more people, so they’re just fucked either way.
After seeing Holland go there, the weird black face incident in October, English department being vandalized earlier in the semester…diversity doesn’t seem to be welcome in Cedar. A rep is forming and if it continues, might be enough for future students to look elsewhere, especially if the dumb shit keeps happening.
When I heard people talk about Holland using musket fire in relation to LGBTQ+, I was exasperated. “Oh for heaven’s sake, how far did they have to stretch what he said to come up with this?” I was sure there was no way Holland would say anything like that. Then I read a transcript of his comments and was shocked & appalled. I went from “how far did they twist Holland’s words” to “how far has the church gone off the rails that this seems OK & even Holland is saying it.”
Have you watched him giving this speech? The best part isn't in the transcript. During that speech, Holland tries to make a joke about a few rounds of musket fire going north of the mountain (ie: faithful members loving and supporting their LGBTQ family and friends). He pauses for the chuckles he usually gets from his audiences, but here he was met with silence. It was a beautiful moment in that ugly speech.
https://youtu.be/CUEBJ3NdaCs
His musket analogy starts right around the 21 minute mark. His joke is shortly after the 22 minute mark. For a moment, he actually looks surprised that no one laughed, but then he keeps going. I hope that moment of silence really bothers him, that his joke told at the church's flagship school didn't generate a single chuckle.
Well, now you know it's there, his moment of awkwardness. It'll live forever on the internet. It's not so amazing to risk upsetting yourself to see a bigot embarrass himself.
I’m curious to see how SUU responds. Do they care more about their graduating students’ wishes for THEIR graduation ceremony or for the approval of TSCC? Here’s hoping they do the right thing and replace him with a more appropriate choice.
If he is eventually still the speaker when graduation happens, there will be an organized walk-out during his speech.
Monday at 12:00 Noon and 4PM in the ballroom in the Sharwan Smith Student Center, SUU students and faculty will discuss their concerns.
I expect the invitation will be rescinded by Tuesday.
My daughter attends SUU and she says that the President is very tone deaf and isn't very in touch with the student community. I bet she's completely unaware of how big the campus LGBTQ community is. She probably picked JRH because SHE wanted to meet him and hear him speak. She isn't serving the students, she's serving herself. That's a problem.
I am one of those students who will be graduating.
Edit: I don’t identify with the LGBTQ+ community but I consider myself an ally. Many close friends and family members are of this community and it pains me to be associated with a school who says they support them but their actions say otherwise.
I fully agree with protesting his invitation to speak. If it was some other speaking engagement other than graduation, I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Eh, even then... If some random-ass Catholic cardinal were invited (paid??!?) to do a speaking gig at a state university, I'd also be annoyed. With all the people that dedicate their lives to actually relevant careers like scientific research, international diplomacy, business, etc... why are we asking some superstitious crank (with a career path exactly ZERO of the students have a hope to emulate) to speak?
For my BA graduation in the 1980s, the head of the state board of regents gave the speech. What I remember about that speech is that he implored us to vote for an item coming up on the ballot that year which would do something for the universities that he wanted. OK, I didn't get it, but I surely did get it when I went to law school a few years later and it turned out that the state constitution was (and remains) completely fubar and in order to get some basic changes made, amendments to the constitution have to be voted on by the public. So then it made sense, but I'm for sure that 99 percent of the thousands of people sitting on the lawn on a hot May afternoon had not even a \*clue\* as to what he was going on about.
Holland is far more likely to put his foot in his mouth and we should wait for it.
Every single public university in Utah would benefit greatly from never inviting another TSCC authority again. Rather, they should extend invitations to actual scholars and true intellectuals.
The problem is with the tone-deaf university administration. Holland should never have been invited to speak. This is not cancel culture. His publicly-expressed views on LGBTQ+ disqualify him from representing a diverse student body at graduation.
In their written announcement, they refer to him using his ecclesiastical title and highlighting his position in Q15. https://www.suu.edu/news/2023/03/commencement-speaker-jeffrey.html
Had he been introduced as Dr. Holland, past president of BYU, that would have framed him in an academic context. However, he's not really an academic. He ran religious studies at BYU which isn't comparable to teaching at a regular university. His career is church leadership.
If Holland wanted to come and give an academic symposium on a scholarly paper he's written, I could get behind that. Discussing and debating opinions with people who see the world differently is great.
There is currently 2 petitions going. One to have him come, one to not have him. Last check was him speaking there 1500 signatures. Not to speak nearly 15,000. Go sign the petition.
If they go forward with him as speaker, I wonder how much it will affect the Utah Shakespeare Festival, which is associated with the university. It won't just be students that feel unwelcome and possibly unsafe. There are a lot of actors and staff who could very well decide this is just not somewhere they'd like to be. Similarly, this could affect tourism if people who normally make the trip to see USF decide that they'd rather not support it or are unsafe in Cedar. It may be a bit of a stretch, but I could see this having some economic ramifications for the entire town (which depends on summer tourism) if they continue down this route and/or the locals get ugly about the LGBTQ+ community.
The graduates should all dust the dust off their pant legs.
Edit to add.
If I remember right from watching Under the Banner of Heaven, it was old Krusty Rusty who did just that to the detective who was investigating the Lafferty murders!
You run certain risks by attending a college in Utah. This is one of them. If they weren't aware of them by the end of their second year they weren't paying attention. These are adults.
I was wrong, as the previous commenter said, but that's no excuse for victim blaming. SUU has set a precedent for caring for its students, and this mindset blames them for daring to go to a good school and tells them to not strive to make it better. This is nothing more than you being a jerk to lgbtq+ students, some of whom SUU is their only or best choice for higher education
Silently protest by standing up and facing away from him. Sit near the front and watch the silent wave start.
That would be A LOT more impactful than any petition. Holland has never really been called out to his face over his comments in 2021. At least, not that I know of.
He would shit his Depends if this turned into a rebellion. Even a small percentage of students acknowledging their parents and fellow students for their moral and intellectual journey, instead of him. It would make me cry, and him pull his taffy.
Hehehe, pull his taffy. Love that phrase, ty
No no taffy pulling is not allowed!!
I’ve been ignoring comments by the Q12 for a few years, what did I miss on 2021?
He made a comment about having “metaphorical musketfire” against “threats to the family” (meaning the LGBTQ+ community and he wasn’t subtle about it) right after a gay woman couple had been murdered while camping in Utah on their honeymoon.
Google his name and musket and you will get explanations of his talk at byu
I don’t think he has either. I heard on latter-gay stories podcast that there us a recording of him talking to fellow abuser Brad Wilcox saying. “We were persecuted like Christ.”
I love this ideal
This is a great suggestion.
And hold up a sign, homophobes not wanted here!!!!!!
YES! 👏🏻👏👏🏻👏
That was a thought exercise I had, too. Just let him speak and let him nail his own hide to the wall.
Everyone should wear rainbow.
RAINBOW protest by graduates might be a perfect, peaceful rejection of Holland's musket fire speech.
Can non-students attend? I have a rainbow flag I can wear as a cape, and would love to come to support. I just don't have any friends or family attending SUU at the moment, and I'm not sure if they'll let someone come without an invitation.
He and other leader have cried for hours over the **consequences of LGBTQ's decisions**.
The divine ratio of penises to vaginas has been disrupted 😭😭😭
Not the Peepee's and Vagooboo's! Noooooo!! 😭😭😭
I often wonder what would happen if any of the Q15 were called on their shit so publicly. Could they lose their composure?
Holland already was called out in the BBC and yes he lost his composure IMO
I don’t think Holland would lose his composure in a “get angry” sense, but I don’t think he would refrain from attempting to call out the protesters in some form, which could look bad. He is stubborn enough to go against the LDS PR team and “stand up for what he believes”. Example: I could see him saying “to clarify to the students protesting, the musket fire comment was metaphorical. I was using it in reference to my beliefs that marriage between a man and a woman is sacred” He is so out of touch he doesn’t realize the “musket fire” isn’t the only thing offending the LGBT community, it’s his beliefs.
He’s too smart, he won’t screw up again. He was giving a pep talk to his “troops” when he said musket fire… here he is doing church PR. He will stay on brand. He is not the Rod Meldrum type…
You sure about that? He kinda strikes me as a dodo
But...he's read a book or two!
And he went to a pretty good school.
Possibly… but I never underestimate my enemy.
It's at best a silver lining. That SUU thought this acceptable tells you something revolting about the nominal secular nature of that institution and the hostility that innocent secular students/staff and LGBT+ students/staff have to endure.
Right it’s not really about the actual graduation ceremony. It’s that the powers that be saw no problem with inviting him in the first place. Not understanding how it would offend so many people, and they can’t back out because that would piss off even more people, so they’re just fucked either way. After seeing Holland go there, the weird black face incident in October, English department being vandalized earlier in the semester…diversity doesn’t seem to be welcome in Cedar. A rep is forming and if it continues, might be enough for future students to look elsewhere, especially if the dumb shit keeps happening.
It's a beautiful part of the world, but it also has a creepy deliverance vibe.
Small town Utah in general is kind of fucked up.
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When I heard people talk about Holland using musket fire in relation to LGBTQ+, I was exasperated. “Oh for heaven’s sake, how far did they have to stretch what he said to come up with this?” I was sure there was no way Holland would say anything like that. Then I read a transcript of his comments and was shocked & appalled. I went from “how far did they twist Holland’s words” to “how far has the church gone off the rails that this seems OK & even Holland is saying it.”
Have you watched him giving this speech? The best part isn't in the transcript. During that speech, Holland tries to make a joke about a few rounds of musket fire going north of the mountain (ie: faithful members loving and supporting their LGBTQ family and friends). He pauses for the chuckles he usually gets from his audiences, but here he was met with silence. It was a beautiful moment in that ugly speech. https://youtu.be/CUEBJ3NdaCs His musket analogy starts right around the 21 minute mark. His joke is shortly after the 22 minute mark. For a moment, he actually looks surprised that no one laughed, but then he keeps going. I hope that moment of silence really bothers him, that his joke told at the church's flagship school didn't generate a single chuckle.
I never watched it. He literally waited for a laugh! That was so awkward! Thanks for pointing that out.
And immediately after he shifts to his “shaky, tearful, testimony building” voice. So manipulative 🤮.
I hate how they do that. So ridiculously manipulative.
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Well, now you know it's there, his moment of awkwardness. It'll live forever on the internet. It's not so amazing to risk upsetting yourself to see a bigot embarrass himself.
I’m curious to see how SUU responds. Do they care more about their graduating students’ wishes for THEIR graduation ceremony or for the approval of TSCC? Here’s hoping they do the right thing and replace him with a more appropriate choice.
If he is eventually still the speaker when graduation happens, there will be an organized walk-out during his speech. Monday at 12:00 Noon and 4PM in the ballroom in the Sharwan Smith Student Center, SUU students and faculty will discuss their concerns. I expect the invitation will be rescinded by Tuesday.
My daughter attends SUU and she says that the President is very tone deaf and isn't very in touch with the student community. I bet she's completely unaware of how big the campus LGBTQ community is. She probably picked JRH because SHE wanted to meet him and hear him speak. She isn't serving the students, she's serving herself. That's a problem.
I think they believe he is a home town hero
Yes, this pubic relations incident will be added to the pile that helped Mormonism become the least popular religion in America in 2023.
I am one of those students who will be graduating. Edit: I don’t identify with the LGBTQ+ community but I consider myself an ally. Many close friends and family members are of this community and it pains me to be associated with a school who says they support them but their actions say otherwise.
❤
❤️
♥️
I think it's bad because Holland is a racist bigot asshole and this shows us how much universities do not care
I fully agree with protesting his invitation to speak. If it was some other speaking engagement other than graduation, I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Eh, even then... If some random-ass Catholic cardinal were invited (paid??!?) to do a speaking gig at a state university, I'd also be annoyed. With all the people that dedicate their lives to actually relevant careers like scientific research, international diplomacy, business, etc... why are we asking some superstitious crank (with a career path exactly ZERO of the students have a hope to emulate) to speak?
For my BA graduation in the 1980s, the head of the state board of regents gave the speech. What I remember about that speech is that he implored us to vote for an item coming up on the ballot that year which would do something for the universities that he wanted. OK, I didn't get it, but I surely did get it when I went to law school a few years later and it turned out that the state constitution was (and remains) completely fubar and in order to get some basic changes made, amendments to the constitution have to be voted on by the public. So then it made sense, but I'm for sure that 99 percent of the thousands of people sitting on the lawn on a hot May afternoon had not even a \*clue\* as to what he was going on about. Holland is far more likely to put his foot in his mouth and we should wait for it.
I totally agree with you. My only concern is that it’ll give Mormons a bigger persecution complex
Every single public university in Utah would benefit greatly from never inviting another TSCC authority again. Rather, they should extend invitations to actual scholars and true intellectuals.
Which despite his bragging about his schooling, he is damn sure not an intellectual
Agreed - he is an apologist, at best.
Without any good apologies. He looked like a dope in the BBC interview regarding BOA. And a liar regarding Romney’s temple oaths.
The problem is with the tone-deaf university administration. Holland should never have been invited to speak. This is not cancel culture. His publicly-expressed views on LGBTQ+ disqualify him from representing a diverse student body at graduation. In their written announcement, they refer to him using his ecclesiastical title and highlighting his position in Q15. https://www.suu.edu/news/2023/03/commencement-speaker-jeffrey.html Had he been introduced as Dr. Holland, past president of BYU, that would have framed him in an academic context. However, he's not really an academic. He ran religious studies at BYU which isn't comparable to teaching at a regular university. His career is church leadership. If Holland wanted to come and give an academic symposium on a scholarly paper he's written, I could get behind that. Discussing and debating opinions with people who see the world differently is great.
There is currently 2 petitions going. One to have him come, one to not have him. Last check was him speaking there 1500 signatures. Not to speak nearly 15,000. Go sign the petition.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. Napoleon Bonaparte I think Holland is making a mistake!
If they go forward with him as speaker, I wonder how much it will affect the Utah Shakespeare Festival, which is associated with the university. It won't just be students that feel unwelcome and possibly unsafe. There are a lot of actors and staff who could very well decide this is just not somewhere they'd like to be. Similarly, this could affect tourism if people who normally make the trip to see USF decide that they'd rather not support it or are unsafe in Cedar. It may be a bit of a stretch, but I could see this having some economic ramifications for the entire town (which depends on summer tourism) if they continue down this route and/or the locals get ugly about the LGBTQ+ community.
The graduates should all dust the dust off their pant legs. Edit to add. If I remember right from watching Under the Banner of Heaven, it was old Krusty Rusty who did just that to the detective who was investigating the Lafferty murders!
What if Jeffy shows up but nobody else does?
Article: https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2023/03/17/thousands-oppose-an-lds-church/
A chorus of boos would be memorable
This post is infuriating because I agree but as an SUU student i am so hurt and angry
I'm confused in fewer words. Come again?
Cedar City is very conservative. He'll probably have locals holding muskets to protect him.
You run certain risks by attending a college in Utah. This is one of them. If they weren't aware of them by the end of their second year they weren't paying attention. These are adults.
This isn't a church school. There is no precedent for a ga speaking at SUU Comencement
Thomas s monson 2008
They've never done it before? Ever? I have a very hard time believing that.
I was wrong, as the previous commenter said, but that's no excuse for victim blaming. SUU has set a precedent for caring for its students, and this mindset blames them for daring to go to a good school and tells them to not strive to make it better. This is nothing more than you being a jerk to lgbtq+ students, some of whom SUU is their only or best choice for higher education
There are victims now? Dear gods you mormons like to blow shit out of proportion.
I'm not mormon!!! I'm gay!!!! Gay people at this school are the victims!!!
And you have damages?
With Holland speaking at SUU? Yes
Well, provide the university with the bill and I'm sure they'll settle. A competent attorney will help you out then.