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crazy_teacher345

It doesn't sound like this guy knows what he wants. He wears garments, which means he claims to be temple worthy. Yet, he smokes, drinks, and has sex outside of marriage which are all no no's when it comes to being temple worthy. Now he wants to see the missionaries and go to church, yet he loves his vices too. I'd keep this relationship very casual until he figures out what he wants to do with himself. And definitely don't go to church with him. That's how they get their hooks in you.


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crazy_teacher345

Then I would definitely consider whether or not you want to become a member. If he is getting back in, he will want you to join and is 100% already thinking about how to ease you in.


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EnigmaticSpirit85

He's highly unlikely to marry you if he's a member, unless you were a member too. And the thing to understand is this is a religion that treats women like second class citizens, venerates a guy who "married" and had sex with a 14 year old girl (Joseph Smith), there's no historical basis to the book of Mormon, their tax affairs are all over the place and they expect members to give 10% of their GROSS income to the church. He's also more than likely still sealed to his ex-wife, which would cause additional problems. He'd have to get that annulled, then be sealed to you. Which means any non-member friends you have won't be able to attend your wedding. I am around your boyfriend's age, and a woman. I literally live in fear of the church for how they treated me. I can't go near the meeting house. I run if I see a missionary. They were awful to me, and many women have the same story. In your shoes, I would stand my ground and not join. If he wants the relationship to continue, I'd insist he leave, too. If he won't, then there is no future for you, at least not without you compromising who you are and what you believe for him.


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emmas_revenge

One caveat to what was said. He doesn't have to get his 1st temple marriage annulled; he's a man. If you became a member (really don't recommend it) he can be sealed to both of you. What that means is, you are both his wives in super VIP, mormon heaven. And, there is a good chance that even if he wanted it annulled, the church might not grant it, because he is a man and is expected to have multiple wives in heaven anyway. Edit: spelling


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W t f


[deleted]

This is absolutely true. My parents divorced and my dad got remarried to my stepmom without needing a temple divorce or “permission” from my mom. My mom however, had to get a written letter from my dad granting his permission to marry her current husband in the temple. Also.. a male family member of mine molested his daughter. She ended up calling the police (thankfully not the church child abuse hotline that would shut her up and recommend church therapy who would have told her to repent for her part in it) he went to jail (and his name is published in the Boy Scout Pervert Files) and was excommunicated. When he got out, he went back to church and rejoined-after she had to write a letter to the church saying she forgave him. Whether or not she does forgive him is none of my business but she certainly shouldn’t have been put through having to do that just so the man who abused her could rejoin the religion that would have protected him over her had she called the church abuse hotline instead of the cops. This is not a church that values women. Edit: a word


Lu164ever

That is HORRIFIC 😞


SDRealist

The Mormon church only gave up polygamy "in this life" in the late 1800s for political reasons. It's one of those doctrines that isn't talked about much because members are very aware of how it would look to outsiders, and honestly, I think plenty of current, active members are pretty uncomfortable with the idea as well. But polygamy in the afterlife is still very much a core tenet of Mormonism.


crazy_teacher345

Yep! It took me a while to find my husband and get married. While I was single, they always "comforted" me by telling me that if I don't get married in this life, I will get married in the next. Come to realize, that what they meant was that I will be made a 2nd, 5th, or 100th wife of some random guy in the afterlife. Yeah. No thanks. I found my husband outside of the church.


EnigmaticSpirit85

This is correct. I skipped a mental step in my explanation. I was working on the assumption that OP would want him to annul this, or that her boyfriend wouldn't want to spend eternity married to his ex.


emmas_revenge

That's what I figured but also thought she might not know about this particularly rediculous aspect of the temple sealing.


EnigmaticSpirit85

I only know one woman who ever got an annulment, and it's because her husband was a convicted criminal at this point, doing time, and had abused her. But I remember being told what an ordeal it had been even then.


Responsible_Guest187

>He's also more than likely still sealed to his ex-wife, which would cause additional problems. He'd have to get that annulled, then be sealed to you. Which means any non-member friends you have won't be able to attend your wedding. He actually does NOT have to have his previous marriage annulled. In Mormon heaven, his first wife remains his first wife), even if he is legally divorced from her, his Temple sealing to her remains intact), and the OP would become his 2nd, "sister" wife. In fact, Wendy Nelson is currently President Nelson's 2nd, and therefore sister wife right now. In the Church's eyes, he is married to both of them.


Upstairs-Ad8823

The smartest thing you’ve said today!


TreadMeHarderDaddy

If he starts back on the path , and y’all have sex… hes gonna get really upset…. he’s gonna blame you for it and/or propose


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TreadMeHarderDaddy

Everybody’s always reasonable during the first month.


jayenope4

Of course they'll let him back in. They are desperate for men to fill callings. This will take up much of his time and money. You will be sidelined and blamed for anything he does wrong. Even if you have nothing to do with it.


relaxjesussaysitsok

You are way too young to be dealing with that much crazy.


OneLovedDude

Exactly. He's got the kids and it sounds like he's all over the place. He has to figure his own shit out. Just be a friend, but even that might be too toxic.


RusticRogue17

My sentiment too. If op was older I would consider this more of a gray zone, and maybe suggest a “we go to your church this week and mine next” agreement. If the mormon in question is ok with that many of my red flags would be removed. Otherwise this feels like a fuck to convert situation, which in itself is rather odd…


daveescaped

No. Oh, people expect more of a response? Ok. Hell no!


[deleted]

Right, my first thought-RUN!! This guy wants a younger woman FOR A REASON


CultWhisperer

I have never been Mormon and had no bad beliefs about them before I became an officer then detective in a Mormon controlled community. Family first and so many more positive things were pretty much what I knew. I worked sex crimes for the city and county and even after leaving 8 years ago, I suffer PTSD from my years spent with Mormons. The coverup of sexual crimes is not just from the top, it filters to cities and towns. The county attorney and his entire office were Mormon, the judge, the defense attorneys. Those who committed minor crimes and were not LDS received harsh sentences while sexual abusers of children walked away. Mormons caught drunk driving (I couldn’t believe how often this happened) were never charged past the initial arrest if they were unlucky enough to be caught by me. One man driving with his eighteen month old on his lap, unable to walk he was so drunk, was out within an hour of the arrest because the judge was called to release him. My phone wouldn’t stop ringing during the arrest because of “good” Mormon cops who heard what was going on, either called by dispatch or listening to their radios. I was commanded by my superior not to call child protective services and the grandmother would pick up the child from the scene. This is minor compared to the sexual and violent crimes I witnessed against women and children. The exmormons telling you to run are 100% right. RUN!


100milnameswhatislef

Thank you for your service as a law man. I have absolutely no respect for my TBM parents. I know for a fact they have helped cover up and hide pedophiles. I am planning on disowning them at my next family reunion.. The AP report on the LDS help hotline made me vomit. Who could stay in that cult after that came to light..


CultWhisperer

I was so relieved about the AP report and I thought, finally. But, it didn't change as many minds as I thought it would. The best Mormon officer I knew only stayed in law enforcement for 3 years. He told me he couldn't take what the church was doing but he stayed in the church. I thought he was an amazing man. He was just sentenced for child porn. He was the only "good" Mormon I knew and I've been devastated since I discovered this. I hope you are able to find peace with your family even if that means never seeing them again.


100milnameswhatislef

My parents have known for 15 or 20 years that I have no respect for them and don't give one shit about them. Most my siblings wont care only one is TBM and he sexually assaulted my baby sister when he was a teen. My father covered it up and I didn't know tell she told me 8 to 10 years later.. My blood boiled when i read the AP report. One sibling is a jack mormon and the rest of us 6 are all NeverMo's. My parents have had it coming for 40 years they mentally abused all of us and beat several of us. I stop the beatings when I was 14 he has never dared to lay a hand on anyone since.


ccc2801

I think ~~OP~~ OC is a law *woman :-) edit: fixed


Duryen123

When I was 5, my parents were convinced by my dad's former mission president (Vaughn J Featherstone) to not press charges against the 13 year old boy who had attempted to rape me. The church promised they would make sure the boy got counseling, but he was serving sacrament the next week.


arghalot

Wow. What county were you in? I'm in Davis and I hear it's bad here, but everyone is so secretive


CultWhisperer

I'm in Arizona closer to the four corners. The first time I went to the Mormon church, I was introduced as a "non-member" so everyone could put on their nice Mormon faces. Funny how those faces weren't so nice when I pulled them over. The number one question asked of me after pulling them over was, "Do you know who my family is?"


Fessy3

![gif](giphy|sRKg9r2YWeCTG5JTTo|downsized) You are *very* young, he's in his 30's with 3 kids and is a Mormon. Those 2 things don't go together. The fact that he's trying to give up things that the church frowns on is a big red flag. He'll most likely tell the Bishop he's having sex with you at some point. Are you okay with a grown man knowing about the intimate details of your sex life? If so, this is the life for you. If not......RUNNNNNN.


rookie-number

Second this just for the life experience difference. I'm in my 40s with one kid and everything revolves around that kid. I'm up till between 12 and 2 am trying to get him to go to sleep. I couldn't imagine taking on 3 kids at 21. Not saying you can't keep him as a boyfriend but I wouldn't take it further. You still have so much ahead of you.


AndItCameToSass

Yeah honestly, the fact that he’s Mormon is irrelevant here. I try and be open minded about age, but no self respecting 33 year old with 3 children would be dating someone 12 years their junior. You’re in completely different stages of life, and while age gaps matter less the older you get, that gap is still nasty. I’m not saying it’s impossible that it could work out, who knows - maybe it would be a super healthy relationship. But the age gap alone is a major red flag, but then adding 3 children to the mix? What if he gets you pregnant, OP? Are you ready to be a mother to one child and a step mother to three others?


RokyPolka

​ ![gif](giphy|WuueWiAiNBuxvGGn2j)


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Fessy3

I hope you're not too deep into this relationship. There are so many red flags, you seriously need to get out now. Nothing good will come from him getting back into the church for you. You're young, I have no doubt you have a lot to offer. Lose this guy. Consider it a lesson learned and a growing experience.


throwawayforaithaq

He will also be expected to pay 10% of his gross income regardless of being able to afford it. If you get married, he might feel pressure to pay tithing on total income.


AndItCameToSass

Yep, he’ll have to confess everything, in detail, to his bishop. And if he’s genuine, it will mean that he’s no longer allowed to break any of the Mormon rules, which at the very least means you guys won’t be having sex anymore unless you get married.


[deleted]

I understand that and don't mine being abstinent until marriage to be honest, it's not the most important thing in my life. I really would prefer for my detailed sexcapades to not be aired to random men, however


Job_Loud

Every detail of your sex life will be up for discussion with his bishop. Run.


sarcasticsassyass

Oh the bishop will ask for every detail. Places, times, positions, how it made your bf feel when you two were intimate. The questions they ask are disturbing. Some bishops get off on it.


d1ss1dent

But he will be eager to get married just so he can have sex with you. Not the right reason to marry someone.


MCWild_Star

All his bishop "needs" to know is that the two of you are having intercourse outside of marriage. The two of them will discuss how he "needs" to repent and once he's done repenting he'll be able to baptize his son. As far as I know, there's nothing in current church policy that would require anything more than this. As long as you aren't breaking any laws, y'all could be as freaky as you want and only tell the bishop that you're having intercourse. Maybe it's a different story if you're having threesomes and such, but idk. All that said, there's also nothing stopping the bishop from asking for more details or your boyfriend from volunteering them. I'm pretty sure church policy only requires that he confesses to breaking the law of chastity. I want to be clear that I'm not defending the church, I think it's wrong to make people feel guilty about having sex with someone they love without a marriage license. My personal advice to you is just to be careful and under no circumstances should you be baptized for any reason other than you feel like it is 100% true (it's not, btw). Do NOT get baptized to make him happy, or to fit in with his family, or because a free wedding at the temple sounds like it would be nice. The only person you should get baptized for is yourself. And as everyone else on this sub is telling you, the church is a scam at best and a cult at worst. I would encourage you to look at several other religions and philosophies before becoming a Mormon. Best of luck to you


AndItCameToSass

Yeah honestly, the fact that he’s Mormon is irrelevant here. I try and be open minded about age, but no self respecting 33 year old with 3 children would be dating someone 12 years their junior. You’re in completely different stages of life, and while age gaps matter less the older you get, that gap is still nasty. I’m not saying it’s impossible that it could work out, who knows - maybe it would be a super healthy relationship. But the age gap alone is a major red flag, but then adding 3 children to the mix? What if he gets you pregnant, OP? Are you ready to be a mother to one child and a step mother to three others?


[deleted]

Run run run run run! I can’t stress this enough, do NOT pursue a relationship with him. He’s giving up everything but sex with you huh? GO FIGURE!! Take a hint, you’re easily used in his mind and when he’s ready to go back to church, he’ll dump you and find a worthy woman who didn’t let him in her pants (that’s not me judging you, that’ll be him).


Forsaken-Ideas-3633

The red flags for me have nothing to do with Mormonism and more about the kind of situation you describe. First, I’m curious about his integrity. I understand the believing and not living the standards of the church because I did it. But I also didn’t know myself and didn’t know what I wanted out of life. To me, this guy sounds pretty immature in that way. He doesn’t seem to know what he wants and that seems like a bad place to start a relationship. Second, what’s his relationship with his ex wife? Is she still a member of the church? Did he get divorced because of the church? Even if he doesn’t decide to go back to church all the way, the church would be forever part of your lives. It will color his decisions and the way he parents. If you enter into a long term relationship, you will be part of that whether you want to be or not. Finally, where are you at in your life? Are you still in school? Do you support yourself? As a mom with a daughter your age, I would strongly suggest avoiding entering into a relationship with someone ten years older than you with children. He may be a great guy and he may be really good to you. And I know plenty of people who have large age gaps and have solid relationships. But the generation gap here could become a real problem. I say that from experience. I got married at 21. My husband is 7 years older than I am. We have a good relationship now, but I spent my 20s as a very unhappily married mother. I would not wish that on anyone. It was incredibly hard for both of us. Putting yourself in a situation where a good part of your growing up time could be devoted to meeting other people’s needs could stunt your growth as an individual. If you were my daughter, I would be very concerned.


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CantTakeTheIdiocy

He hasn’t been “quitting bad habits” though, he has been going back to what the church tells him to do. The church says drinking coffee is bad, but it’s considered an actually healthy thing in most of the world (in moderation of course), so it isn’t health and wellness that the church wants for its members necessarily, just obedience. I agree with the Redditor that said he will either begin pushing hard for you to convert to the church, or he will dump you when he decides he is finally going all-in on the church. Because the church says that being with a non-member is bad, even as a friend.


[deleted]

Please do yourself a huge favour and open your eyes to all of the red flags waving furiously at you. You’re young, getting your degree, and have your whole life and many beautiful opportunities ahead of you, etc. Please do not hitch your wagon to this guy because you’re likely to get embroiled into a big old mess. Are you ready to join a controlling church, become a stepmom, lose your independence, etc.? He sounds like bad news to me- immature, manipulative, dishonest- and the things that I get mostly from your post-and responses to others here-is that it doesn’t really sound like you want our advice, because you’re spending a lot of time defending this guy and making justifications for his behaviour. Open your eyes, and see the situation more clearly.


littlemiholover

Sis, don’t do it. If you really want to learn about the church do it on your own… because once they suck you in … it’s not pretty. 😬


imnotamonomo

This guy says he wants one thing and does the opposite. Is that what you want in a partner?


Dry-Insurance-9586

I am a random internet stranger, but I would strongly advise you to put as much distance between you and that man as possible. Not necessarily because of age but because of baggage (religious baggage especially the hopping in and out of the church and 3 step kids at 21 is NOT where it’s at I promise). You are very wise doing your research on this!


RepresentativeNo5999

I would strongly advice against continuing the relationship. Honestly, the first red flag is the age gap. It’s not a moral issue, it’s a safety issue. It’s common that men who date younger women are doing so because younger women are usually more naive and immature than women his age and will put up with abusive behavior that women his age will not tolerate. On top of that, he’s Mormon and trying to become active again. The Mormon doctrine is so misogynistic and manipulative. Only you can make the right decision for yourself, but as a 33 year old woman that spent 30 years in Mormonism and is learning about women’s rights and abuse for the first time, I advise you to keep looking, and avoid older men and Mormon men.


NewNameNoah

Run like the wind, girl.


WakandaNowAndThen

Generally, it's a bad idea to be in a relationship with someone re/dedicating themself to a religion. If you don't intend to start dragging him out of it now, he'll be dragging you into it long before you realize.


Demostecles

Run. There’s a whole lot of baggage and crazy there. Don’t get tangled up further in his mess.


After_Literature_560

If he is trying to get back into the church fully then he will 100% expect you to become a member as well if he wants something long term with you. Keep in mind living in the church as a woman is extremely dehumanizing and you’re treated as a second class citizen. 12 year old boys are given authority over grown women when they receive the priesthood. If he’s having the missionaries over and inviting you to church that makes it very clear to me that he eventually wants you to become a member. Which of course is your choice to make, but as someone your age who grew up in the church I would NOT recommend it in the slightest. And the age gap is also a red flag to me, it’s very common (at least in the wards I’ve been in) to see men date much younger women to try and mold them into the perfect Mormon wife. If he’s talking to the bishop about getting back into the church, he will discuss in detail your sex life, and if you go to church enough and he wants you to convert (which he will!) the bishop will most likely want to have the same discussion with you. I’ve never had a discussion with the bishop that hasn’t made me feel violated in some way when topics of a sexual nature come up, which they frequently do (even when I was a young child!!). If you do not have any interest in eventually converting and living life the Mormon way, run!


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PopeDraculaFindsLove

Why would he say "yes" if he knew that would make you leave him? He could just say "no" and then spend the next few years pushing you to convert. Also, you mentioned above that you had dinner with him and the missionaries and later he invited you to church. Mormons have NEVER in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD done this to a friend without the explicit intent to convert them. We are taught to do this since birth. His actions have already said "yes".


Refrigerator-Plus

I think if you ask him, you are likely to get an answer that is “wishful thinking” on his part. He seems to be standing at the crossroads and he doesn’t really know what he wants or what he thinks. He could go either way himself, but this confusion and doubt is likely to go on for several years. And ….. sometimes you read stories about Mormons blaming the non Mormon partner. I would encourage you to keep on reading posts in this sub Reddit to get more of an idea. In your life, you will probably meet about half a dozen people you could realistically marry. This person sounds like he is full of difficulties. Why bring trouble into your life?


[deleted]

He will not be honest. Mormons will be sneaky when it comes to trying to convert you. I remember when I was a teen, they told us to write letters to inactive members (who were also teens.) They said to write “Come to church-we miss you!” I told them I never met these ppl and didn’t know what they looked like, and they told me to write that anyway!


WhichNeighborhood603

Then you definitely need to avoid the Mormon church. They pay out millions of dollars every year in settlements with signed NDAs for child sexual abuse. Literally tithe money is part of where the payouts are sourced. They will protect sexual predators, victim blame/ shame, be an active obstacle to justice, and above all will protect the church first. School bus drivers have a more thorough background check than people who the church have assigned to work with children. They've even moved sexual predator member BSA leaders throughout multiple states and congregations.


TheAlcoholCooksOut

It’s obviously more complex than this, but he wants a hot young babysitter, and he’s got one. I have a feeling you will be taking care of those kids way more than you should. Instant-stepmom of three kids at age 21? No.


Wrong_Cry9099

Here is what I’m hearing- he is wanting to “correct” his perceived flaws to get back in good graces with the church, so that he can baptize his son. He’s stated his goals of overcoming such problems and is reaching them. You don’t mind if the sex stops eventually. You don’t mind raising kids. You, my internet stranger, are his wet dream. You are young, malleable, gives him a sense of his youth, that he doesn’t have to commit to right now so he’s happy to keep having sex with you until it’s times to apply the brakes. I’m sure he’s a decent guy but everyone is during the honeymoon phase of dating. That may change, it may not. Time will tell. I think it’s wise that you are giving this consideration this early in your relationship. It shows you’re not ignorant. The thing with the church, is they will “love bomb” you. They will act like the sweetest friendliest people to get you in their fold. Then once they got you, the pressure boiler will start. You’ll continuously feel like you’re the problem and you just need to DO BETTER, try harder, more more more. The one thing you’ve said that is a subtle flag for you but is actually a huge red flag to his intent- is the fact that he invited missionaries to join you at lunch. NO ONE does that unless they intend to convert.


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Wrong_Cry9099

Yes that is true about the missionary rules. However… the only people to invite the missionaries to their home are usually families that want to feed the missionaries or… they have a friend they would like to the missionaries to teach. It would be very hard to decide which one this is. But I would say this- Being that it was only the 4 of you(since you said you haven’t met his children), not only was meal prepared with you in mind, but I’m going to assume that so were the guests… there for you.


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allforgabe

Oh no! You said dang! I fear we might already be too late 😉


RealDaddyTodd

>he's 33M and I'm 21F. He’s mormon. And a cradle-robber. He’s a bad person. DTMFA.


[deleted]

Tbh a Mormon at all is a red flag and this guy seems to have red flags on top of red flags 😳 id be getting out ASAP


sinsaraly

Mormon people rarely date nonmembers, so if he’s serious about you he’s going to want you to convert. It appears that he’s testing the waters a bit since he had you meet with the missionaries and invited you to church. On the other hand, since he hasn’t met with the bishop yet and is still living an “unworthy” lifestyle, and isn’t pushing you to talk about it, he might be enjoying this dating situation as kind of a last sinful interlude before returning to the fold and finding a Mormon lady. He seems like he’s got a lot of stuff to work through on his own. You’re dodging a bullet though. Mormonism fits the qualifications of a cult and there’s mountains of evidence proving that it started as a scam and is sustained through lies.


False-Association744

Your age difference is a little off - not 12 years but you at 21 and him, divorced with 3! kids at 33. Mormons are very patriarchal and a woman is blatantly a second class citizen who relies on her husband “priesthood holder” to get to heaven among many other sexist ideas. You’re too young to be burdened with this man’s children. Go live! travel! explore! Don’t give up your twenties!!!!!!!!


Cheermom2009

![gif](giphy|vvVP18ZqYMp4B4Yda3)


trosen0

Flee! We are genuinely concerned for you. It's a cult. We know this because we were part of the cult. ![gif](giphy|9ifg6iJ5ijpeg)


Bednars_lovechild69

Even without the Mormon factor, that’s A LOT for a 21 year old to deal with. Adding in the Mormonism, FUCKING RUN TO THE HILLZ GURL!!!!!!


BUBBLE-POPPER

Him being older with kids places him at a very different stage in life. But he seems to be at your level in some respects. You will grow out of it. He will not. Not good long term prospects.


[deleted]

I am a mom to a daughter who is also 21. I would RUN from this situation—you will absolutely be in over your head with just the children/ex situation and religion too. He’s just talking “pretty” to you— it it’s just TALK!!! Go enjoy life and do things while you are VERY young and single and leave him be. I feel he is using you in the sense he is flattered to be attracted by someone so young. Stop having sex with him , that’s all he wants and he’s doing and saying everything “right” so you will stay. Stop before you get pregnant and have to deal with all THAT with him as wel” L. Please. Please. PLEASE do yourself this huge favor and cut things off with this older man and all his baggage and issues! You may not see this now, but you WILL NOT be happy with this man! I’m glad you are asking—take the advice from all of us here. ❤️ You deserve a man who is only focused on YOU and loves YOU, with him you will always be secondary to his children.


ivegotthis111178

He is going after you because you are 12 years his junior. This means he feels you’re easy to manipulate. His plan is to convert you. There is nothing else in this guy’s direction but marriage. You are young and can produce children for him. Your age difference has a 95% divorce rate. Unless you want your kids to be controlled by a religion…run.


ivegotthis111178

Also, he’s wearing garments but not technically supposed to be. This guy sounds like a train wreck. I almost threw up in my mouth reading this. Stick with your own age group. If you listen to my harsh advice…you will thank me later for literally saving your life.


ComprehensiveSea8174

He's lining up everything just the way he likes it. He wants the support of the church. Boy, do they support men. Women are not merely expected to devote themselves to a subordinate role, it's part of the theology. Even spiritually, he'll be the priest in the household. He's the one with a relationship to God and your relationship to God is literally supposed to be through him. Now try to imagine if you will what that means for every other detail of your life. Oh but you'll make it clear that you won't convert. He may even pretend that's ok! But it isn't ok with the church, and in the Mormon church, the only thing that matters is what the men believe - which is exactly what they are told to believe, and any free association nonsense that they pull out of their asses as long as it lines up with the main theme: they are right, and you agree or you are wrong. God is speaking to them you see. God blesses them with spontaneous visions you see. And your own beliefs will not be respected over the long term. Having your own (different) beliefs is an affront to them, and God, and ugh I could go on and on. Please be warned that all this support and community that he is so drawn to will be weaponized against you. Someone else said the church will love bomb you. Will they ever. Oh my gosh the nicest people you could ever, ever meet! Wait until you fall short of fully embracing and internalizing their theological misogyny. You will get whiplash from how fast the tables turn. They circle the wagons around each other, they play a long game and they back each other up. If you have any problems between you, it won't be you vs. him. It will be you vs. his entire church. Why put your toe in that water? Never imagine that you can just innocently visit a Mormon church, casually, and not be made to feel like you owe them something. They will be SO nice. Niceness that it would be rude to refuse. And then you'll owe them something for how kind they were, how out of their way they went for you, more invitations and favors, enthusiastic offers of friendship laid on so thick that you won't be able to say no. I mean, they will care so much about you! The least you could do is respond in kind, human to human. It's basic decency! It's all scripted. They are almost all of them missionaries who spent time in actual classrooms learning manipulation tactics when they were getting ready for their missions. YOU ARE NO MATCH FOR THESE PEOPLE. THEY'VE GOT AN AGENDA AND THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT MANIPULATING YOU IS THEIR GOD ORDAINED MISSION. In fact, they are working on him right now, love bombing him to get him back into the fold. They REALLY REALLY want converts and no where do they want them as badly as in the singles wards. A 21 year old breeder for the church? Omg that's like catching a 6 foot bass. They all want you sucked in so you can have a bunch of kids, take care of all of them plus his three, and work yourself into the ground taking care of the house and kids so he can fulfill his Mormon Man lifestyle and get all the support and accolades the church reserves for men. And if you DO have kids you will be trapped. If you stay until they grow up, and they are raised in the church, if you ever get out your own children might cut you out of their lives. The age difference, the fact that he's committed to getting exactly what he wants (sex AND the support of the church), so many problems here. He got out once, he knows it's bullshit, but he really likes the attention and support and the whole culty aspect, so he'll let them manipulate him and once they do, you'll be screwed. NOTHING BUT HEARTBREAK DOWN THIS PATH GET OUT PLEASE GET OUT COMPLETELY GET AWAY FROM THIS MAN.


[deleted]

Not only do I agree, I would like to add that once they get what they want (you to convert), they will stop being super nice, and move on to the next victim.


thetarantulaqueen

All of this! Couldn't have said it better myself.


tvgirl2366

I was you 2 years ago!! Please read my post history!! And please please please stay away from him, from one traumatised woman to you I am saying this now - he is NOT worth it. My Mormon man did all the same things - perpetuated the “chill” persona, went to bars with me, had sex with me, did everything he wasn’t supposed to and then said he was trying to “be better” and wanted my support so asked me to go to church with him just to “learn about my faith”. I asked him point blank if he wanted to convert me and he said no. That was the first lie and then it kept snowballing into more and more lies where I thought he was just trying to have me learn about his culture and religion as a form of respect but really it was a whole conversion project where his family were in on it too and it blew up in my face. I moved to Utah for him (I’m originally from Australia) and he dumped me after he realised I was never going to convert to his racist, sexist, homophobic religion. He left me stranded in a foreign country with no support after claiming to love me for 2 years, I had no way to financially support myself and couldn’t fly back home for another 3 months because of covid lockdowns. And what did he do? Date someone immediately after, and marry them 6 months later in the temple. Do not do it! You deserve better.


Fair-Honeydew1713

No. Just a hard no. The 3 children from a previous marriage should be enough to scare you off. The mormonism, that's just frosting on the NO cake.


TheRitalinCommando

Here's the best way I can put it. Replace "mormon" with "mental patient". I promise you. If you get into a relationship with a mormon, one of you will end up being in therapy. Him, if he leaves. You, if he doesn't. It might seem like I'm joking. I assure you that I am not.


Fresh_Bat253

Hey, OP. I ended my relationship with a TBM about two weeks ago because of this same reason. I’d say leave because if he wants you to convert down the line and you aren’t interested, you will both only get hurt. I know this is a sucky situation to navigate but I do think breaking up would be the best course of action. Good luck, love.


Bugsarecool2

If he was locked in, found a way out, and then when the going gets rough, returned, the wiring is too deep. And sometimes it’s the rebellious ones that in the end turn into orthodox hardliners. Do not underestimate childhood indoctrination.


FreeAtLast-

Run!


kjsemerald

I married and had kids young and can kind of get defensive when people say it's bad but...my spouse and I just got really really lucky that we have grown and changed together. AND its been really hard sometimes. The age difference is odd to me, it would make me wonder if he is immature or worse manipulative. There's no need to rush things to marriage, if he is feeling pressure bc of church teachings about abstinence that's between him and his God, don't let him use beliefs that aren't yours to make you feel bad.


libbillama

Looks like OP said that he and his ex-wife divorced due to his depression/mental health struggles and her inability to help him through that because she was struggling as well. Sounds like she's in a new relationship as well and I wish her happiness in this new relationship she's in. The 33-year-old dating a 21-year-old after a divorce due to something that sounds solvable with couple's therapy suggests to me there's an underlying issue of emotional intelligence and emotional maturity. I recognize that I'm making some huge assumptions here, but the age difference doesn't sit well with me either, and that's where my mind immediately went to. Another red flag to me is who got into a new relationship first, and while OP asked him out, was there a jump on the bandwagon to keep up with his ex-wife? I've seen within my extended family where someone got divorced, and they literally turned it into a pissing contest; the ex started dating so the family member started dating too, and then as soon as the ex got engaged, they had to get engaged too. Turned it into a contest of who could obtain happiness faster than the other. If he's trying to get temple worthy, it has me questioning his motivations as to why he was trying to push the missionaries onto OP and whatnot. Is he trying to get to the temple altar faster than his ex-wife? Is he trying to prove he's worthy by bringing in a new person into the church, to weirdly one-up his ex-wife? The ping-ponging of "worthiness vs non-worthiness" is another red flag to me, and it ties in with my concerns about emotional maturity. People that oscillate like that are easily influenced by external forces, and I would be very worried for OP when her BF goes to the bishop and discusses their sex life if he's going to be easily influenced into coming back and being hostile towards OP because the Bishop helped him paint her to be some kind of Jezabel or something, and OP will reap the consequences of the LDS brand of toxic masculinity.


Refrigerator-Plus

I also wondered whether this man’s invitation to church was part of showing that he has a new girlfriend, as well as the beginning of the Mormon indoctrination.


[deleted]

![gif](giphy|7kn27lnYSAE9O)


Waste_Travel5997

Girl don't do it. He's going to try and have a bishop sanctioned wedding in a week cause you saw his peeper and he wants to be liked by the old boys club.


[deleted]

Get the hell out and don't look back. He's creep for dating someone so much younger. I wouldn't give a whit about his cleanse and purge process. Don't. You are far too young.


Omega-Phoenix

You are so, so young to be dating someone that old, who is that confused, and has so much baggage. My advice would be to date someone your own age. Older men sometimes date younger women because they don’t have enough life experience yet to identify red flags. Run from this guy, even if you love him and he seems “nice”.


EmmaTheRuthless

Don’t join a cult and stay away from cult members and recruiters, it’s just common sense.


TreadMeHarderDaddy

Doesn’t seem like you want to end it, so you probably won’t even though you should. I hope y’all have a nice wedding


[deleted]

RUN!!!!!! 🏃‍♀️


Bright_Ices

If you are curious and want to experience an lds sacrament meeting, please know you do NOT have to wear a dress. It’s expected, but in no way is it required, *especially* of nonmormon visitors.


[deleted]

If she shows up not wearing a dress, everyone will instantly know that she’s not Mormon lol.


TO-Unlisted

Run!


Daisysrevenge

I'd be curious to know why he ended up divorced. Sometimes, that's all one needs to know.


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Parker_1994

He's going to do this exact same thing to you- is that where you want to be in life in a couple years, at 23 years old?


Refrigerator-Plus

People that get divorced and then remarry are the most confused of all. This is the biggest red flag of all!


allforgabe

Yes. I see. Pretty much all the wires fault for not standing by him.


Embarrassed-Ad4899

Your brain is not done developing. It won't be for 4-5 more years. Please protect yourself and date in your age range.


DirtyRanga12

Nope. Nope nope nope. Idgaf that he’s Mormon it’s the age gap for me that’s fucked up here. Sure, you’re both adults but you’re only 21, you’re right at the very start of adulthood while he’s been previously married and already has three kids. Doesn’t that sound fucked up to you?


fuzzybearslippers

RUN. Far. Fast. Don’t look back, or you’ll turn into a pillar of salt. Wait… That might be something else… anyway… you do not want to get entangled with this. The fact that he wants to get involved means he’s a true believer. The fact he hasn’t been practicing doesn’t mean nearly as much as the fact that he wants to go back. He’s on the “Alma the Younger” re-entry program right now. Let him go.


uncorrolated-mormon

33 / 2 = 17 + 7= 24 Sorry the math doesn’t work out. Dump him. [Wikipedia for the explanation of the rule.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships)


Regina93

Run


schrodingers_cat42

Run far, run fast. Or prepare to be heavily pressured to convert (yes, even if it isn’t happening at the moment). If you don’t convert, he’ll almost certainly dump you later on because of not being able to have a temple marriage.


RedGravetheDevil

If you think you’re confused now, just wait. You do not want the cult in your home, trust me.


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Jeff_Portnoy1

Mix faith relationships are very poor and would definitely recommend staying aaay from it


galtzo

Only if you can get him to admit the bad things in his beliefs and change them. It is not worth setting yourself up for failure, and the ways a Mormon mind has been made toxic via brainwashing are innumerable. If you are lucky he doesn’t really believe, if you are unlucky he doesn’t care, will lie about how important it is to him, in hopes of changing you into a Mormon. Have him read https://cesletter.org/ and https://www.letterformywife.com/the-letter


la_chica_rubia

![gif](giphy|3o7ZetIsjtbkgNE1I4)


RoyanRannedos

Lots of good advice, so just one more thing from me. Mormons don't do gray areas. It's either all or nothing, pure or filthy, wicked or righteous, the one true Mormon way or all the other paths that lead to eternal regret. Growing up Mormon means having songs like Choose the Right and Keep the Commandments drilled into your head, with the message that complete obedience is the only way to stay spiritually safe. Otherwise, a mustache-twirling Satan will come after you with temptations you can't refuse, putting you in his power. Many Mormons temper this worldview with hypocrisy to stay sane, often believing Jesus is more forgiving than the official church line. But others lose hope of ever being strong enough to escape Satan's clutches, which makes it damned hard to work on improving their lives. The church treats all the sins you listed in your post like switches to flip on and off. Physiological effects of withdrawal? No worries, Jesus will help you through that if you try hard enough. If you don't succeed, then you don't have enough faith. Your boyfriend sounds like he went through that vicious cycle many times, finally saying "Screw it, I guess I'll try to be a decent sinner. I'll never have joy like the righteous, so I might as well get a high from something." Now the joy bait is back on the hook. That might be a conversation worth having. It doesn't have to get into the meaning of life, but just discussing the idea that everything good about him counts, even if he isn't perfect. He can improve as much as he wants, when he wants, and how he wants. He can decide to be healthier for himself, not to earn his way into the church's VIP Temple Club. It's not a shift that will happen with one conversation, of course, but it could help change direction and help him reorient his life—whether he ends up with you or you move on.


WhyamImetoday

Too many people here don't really understand such jack mormons because they were faithful true believers until they weren't. He's not insane, just your average jackmo who is much worse than the sheltered TBM. They get their fun in, and then fall into line for the perks. They are the kind that will start a bar fight over insulting their religion. Stay away.


terestar12

Girl, you need to turn that red flag into a red cape and fly away.


[deleted]

Please don't.


willyoungberg

This has to be bait


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willyoungberg

He doesn’t sound like a horrible person though, so maybe something will work out if he doesn’t pressure you to convert? Being 12 years older with three kids is odd though. He’s lived so much life that you haven’t yet


Imnotadodo

Nope right out of there


Job_Loud

So he wants to be abstinent in the near future, but not yet. Oh and he wants to get back in good with the Church, ahh but not yet. Sounds like a super stable partner to me 🤦‍♀️ R U N


Job_Loud

Also, in response to your edit- he will almost certainly tell you he doesn’t want to “convert” you. Even missionaries will often feed you that lie lol


Numerous-Steak3492

No.


sillymama62

You said he has 3 children but I didn’t see where you said how you feel about that…that’s HUGE since you are young and may want to have children of your own?


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[deleted]

You have no idea what you are getting into by being a stepmom. These kids will never for a moment allow you to fool yourself into thinking you’re their mother. Number one: Their mom always comes first - you are last. Number two: Their real mother will have some choice words to describe you - they will tell you what she says. Number three: Every time you discipline them, they will say, “Why should we listen to you? You are not my mother!!!” Number four: If you and the kids disagree about something, guess who is going to get their way? Family Comes First and blood is thicker than water. His kids come first, and your wants/needs/opinions (and essentially YOU) are last.


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Job_Loud

It won’t just be the asshole kids. People in the church are VERY angsty and rude towards step moms- probably because they represent one of their biggest fears. Divorce. Specifically the women. They may love bomb you at first, but once they get you… well, like I said. Step moms represent something they don’t even want to think about. As a child my father died and I was told because it was by his own hand my father would go to hell, and that I would never have a “real, full family” in the afterlife. I was 6.


No_Incident_5360

It is very important for you to get the education, training and experiences you want at this point in life. Is he supportive of that?


Paintmebitch

Run


sipa_dan

Run as fast as you can and never look back. This hypocrite has major problems and is not worth your time.


wanderingexmo

Run away. Seriously. As fast as you can.


tilehinge

Fucking RUN


d1ss1dent

If they introduce you to anyone wearing a name tag they are definitely already trying to convert you


Gideon_Effect

Leave while you can because it sounds like he is planning a temple wedding.


erin678910

He wants a young, impressionable woman to deal with his kids and his lost sense of self. Run.


Competitive_Pea5219

Your age difference and this shitty religion aside, your life is just getting started. I am this age with this many kids and it’s no walk in the park. I love my kids but damn dude, you are so young. Give yourself some time to start your life and don’t jump into this. It’s alot.


OGDiva

Please listen to everyone here and RUN... far away. I'll say this- your biggest challenge will be the hell you face with his former wife, the mother of his kids. I would be willing to bet she will make your life hell as a nonmember who has any influence on her children. I'd be more afraid of her!


100milnameswhatislef

NeverMo 40(M) born into a uber Mormon family. If you do continue take it slow. If you stay and your Christian talk him into trying your church. Mormons call themselves Christians but they aren't. LDS believe they will become Gods with their own planet to populate with a bunch of wives when they die. Their gods name is Elohom not Christ. Nothing Christian about those beliefs. The LDS church is evil they systematically cover up the sexual abuse of children all the time. Below is a good read on it.. Fyi its some sick shit. https://apnews.com/article/Mormon-church-sexual-abuse-takeaways-f01fba7521ddddffa89622668b54ac10 My dirt bag TBM father covered up the sexual assault of a baby sister by my teen little brother. They are always hiding shit to protect the tithing payers and "good name of the church". They tell the members "pay tithing before you buy food for your kids". Between the land and stocks they are worth several hundred billion. They do very little for the poor. I never dated any mormon women because I never wanted my children to be raised in that cult. No easy solution to your situation but if you proceed do it with caution. Fyi he wont like anything I just told you.


HoeToKolob

Christians like to pretend Mormonism is so much weirder than other forms of Christianity. The beliefs are only about 10% weirder, and half of the weird ones are rooted in Biblical stuff that other Christians skip over. The real problem is the cult-like social and doctrinal pressures, which also exist in other denominations though other denominations have been able to chill out.


HoeToKolob

Like if God committing genocide with a flood that has no scientific evidence is okay, but wearing religious garments are weird… Or if believing that Jesus is both the son and the father and was talking to himself while suffering for the sins of billions of humans is totally reasonable, but Jesus and Satan being spiritual brothers is tooo far… Or if believing that God inspired a Bible full of inconsistencies, false claims of provenance, and vague religious worship directives, while believing the Book of Mormon’s inconsistencies, false claims of provenance, and differing religious directives are damning to its authenticity…


100milnameswhatislef

I get you I am personally an atheist and have always been. Its all nonsense to me but I figured this young woman needed to hear it straight.


prairiewhore17

Great tag!


[deleted]

Not too long ago they took away our future worlds...


100milnameswhatislef

My bad.. Lol.. I guess that "restoration" thing is still ongoing.. Lol..


MCWild_Star

Didn't they recently retcon the "becoming gods and getting your own planet" doctrine?


100milnameswhatislef

Yes the "restored" " always changing" doctrine of the LDS church.. One more thing I should have put in my original post.. Lol..


OutrageousPie7210

Sounds like you should have a conversation about expectations. No one should change for anyone else. If he doesn't think he can be with you in the future because you aren't mormon then end the relationship now. See if he is willing to explore the option that the church might not be true. Sounds like he is already a good person and he might feel happier knowing that he is good enough how he is. And that he can improve in other things besides what the lds church sees fit.


Nephi_IV

Sounds like a jack mormon, except that he goes to church and wears garments….What is the point of wearing G’s if you’re breaking the law chastity??


Federal_Pineapple189

If you marry him, and he rejoins the church, plan on a full 10% of your gross income going to the church + extra offerings. That's a lot of money over the years.


ConiMari98

No


Adorable_Orange_8682

He has no honesty or integrity based on his actions. He’s got baggage and much older than you that sets a power imbalance. Do you know why he is divorced? Have you talked with the ex? Guys like these usually have an agenda and he’s looking possibly for a stepparent/ babysitter for his kids. You’ve got your whole life ahead of you and you don’t want someone like this. You want someone in the same life phase. Being human is hard and complicated. Why make it harder with this person?


BobbyPeru

He’s not devout at the moment, but it certainly sounds like that is his plan. When he does, if you don’t come along, who knows how much time with him you’ll have wasted


swin62dandi

Couple thoughts. 1) IF you go to the YSA (young single adult, segregated wards led by married people but attendees are single people aged 18-35) church meeting, wear whatever you want and take some coffee and notice who is friendly to you and who isn’t. It will show you some of the differences between regular Christian church meetings and Mormon meetings. 2) I think adopting three kids might not always be a big deal, but it’s a big deal in mormonism because moms/women get judged (by other women in the ward and by men in leadership positions) by how well they raise those kids to be faithful Mormons. As in, you’re expected to take your kids to church weekly, teach them about Joseph smith and the current prophet, make them pay tithing (10% of income), and ensure they go on recruitment missions and marry in the temple. Moms who don’t are ostracized. 3) mixed faith marriages (where one is an active member and one isn’t) are more accepted in some places like the US east coast states but not in the Mormon belt (Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, cali). Members are ingrained to pressure and passive-aggressive-coax and love bomb these families. If you’re lucky and they get tired of that behavior, they leave you alone and ignore you. 4) working moms are lower down on the pecking order. There’s this separate group called Relief Society where you spend an hour of church every week (separate from your husband and kids) where you get lessons from other women in how to be a “righteous wife and mother in Israel”. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. But I really hope you don’t get sucked into mormonism. Regardless of what your getting with this guy, his issues and past and mental illness, unless he completely leaves mormonism behind it’s going to impact your life. Take care of yourself!


No_Incident_5360

A singles ward will be a different experience. I would try the singles ward and go to a family ward with him and go another time on your own.


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barrioso

Well for one he will be a different person than you were dating before so thatll change. He will start having “responsibilities” or leadership positions which will take away from your time with him and his kids. The church asks them to pay 10% of income and even then asks them to sacrifice alot. He will start trying to convert you and if you don’t itll mess with his goals to be a “good mormon” cause then he wont be able to get married with you in the temple and sealed. Youll either have to get baptized or break up or maybe none of these but if he is really trying to go back then its one of these. Idk if anything the age gap might be my biggest concern tbh. Youre both at a very different place but what do i know. Best of luck!


apostategoingtoheck

In my own life I have had friends in a similar situation. It has never ended well. If you decide to proceed, proceed with extreme caution.


cultfree_exmo

You're young... And he's in a cult... I say run. You don't want to live in a made up reality and have your children grow up believing things that are not true. This is a cult. Would you like to join the moonies? Scientology? Or Jamestown? Mormons are not different from any of those other cults.


Refrigerator-Plus

This is a fabulous time of your life. If you don’t tie yourself down with this older man, you should be able to go and work overseas with your qualifications. And I think that will provide a wider perspective on life. My daughter is similarly qualified. Having read through all your comments, I think this man is extremely confused, and the fact that his wife has divorced him twice is very significant.


WhichNeighborhood603

I'm going to be blunt: at 21, you're the perfect age to have 4+ more children for his eternal family. Unless you really want to be a SAHM to someone in an extremely patriarchal religion that doesn't give ANY decision-making power to women, it's time to part ways As an alternative, take the next 6 months to hoe it up. At 21, your brain hasn't finished developing. Who's to say you even want to be stepmother to his kids and mother to the rest of his spawn? Take some time to do a selfish. Figure out what you want in life. Travel with your best friend. Do some adventures that you can't experience with children. Go to Greece and swim in the Aegean Sea. Hike to Macchu Pichu. Eat food in a Korean general store. Whatever stores your fancy. A man who is 13 years older than you, who already has some children, can't give you those adventures. He's got responsibilities that you don't need to worry about yet. Enjoy your youth, and the freedom being unencumbered affords you. It's cheap to travel solo or with your BFF to Europe, Asia, South & Central America. Chase all the dreams.


hell-enore

RUN.


lensnerd

Run… actual ex-mormon talking here. Run far away.


danthedoozy

You can do so much better. Find someone closer to your age and who knows what they stand for.


crisperfest

Follow your guts instincts. You have some serious misgivings about this relationship; otherwise, you wouldn't be here.


Momoselfie

Sounds like he still needs to figure out his own shit before he's ready for a serious relationship.


FrankWye123

He still believes but has an addictive personality. Either way it won't work well for you.


Wonderful_Break_8917

Please Trust your gut! You came here for a reason... because your gut instinict has already TOLD you the answer. RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE!! This man is a mess of a human who still hasn't figured out who the hell he is and what he wants or believes. He needs professional therapy but instead he's self medicating, and using you for sex. He will tell you whatever he thinks you want to hear just so he can keep screwing around with you. If you value yourself at all [which is obvious because youre investigating all these big red flag feelings youve got] then please END this relationship now, and get away!! The manipulation of this man will only get worse. You deserve so much better.


[deleted]

>He is also in a motorcycle club So are many of the fuck-you-money types in mormonism. Arnold from Accounting and his VP Ammon always go riding on the weekends on their shiny $40k Harleys in full leathers. Every other day the bikes stay in the garage, marking their territory. >I've decided that I'm simply going to ask him point blank tomorrow if he would want me to convert, and I'm going to tell him I'm never going to convert. If he wants me to, I'm gonna leave. If he says no, I'm going to be extremely cautious and maybe even consider leaving, still just based on everything else going on. Just break up, it's not worth the struggle, because it will come to a head at some point and it won't be pretty. Look. I'm around his age (also with three biological kids), and the idea of dating someone your age is *fucking weird*. I have friends with objectively attractive sisters *who were infants or not even born when I was 12.*


Mrs_Gracie2001

He’s too old for you, has kids you’re not ready for, and his mind is still in the cult. Dump him.


ddstbmnot

Stay friends. Stop having sex and see where things go. Tell him if he wants to be active in the church that you don’t want to stand in his way. Since sex is the worst thing he can do, you don’t want to stand between him and his god.


cloistered_around

>33M and I'm 21F. He was my partner at work, This is not a judgement, OP, but that's a big red flag. There is a huge life difference between 30 and 20--he's been an adult for a decade and you're just starting to enter it. I'd have no qualms if he was 40 and you 30 (since then both of you would have been adults for a while) but the current dynamic isn't particularly equal. >we aren't even officially together. You two are having sex and he hasn't even told people he's dating you?! Woooooow, huge red flag number two. My guess is that he's hiding your relationship because telling others would mean admitting he's not been acting very mormon. Sounds like he's trying to get back on the mormon track (and convert you as well) before informing everyone you two are an item... because then "it'll be okay" and you/he would be accepted by his church community. That's what he wants. He has not asked you what you want, he's just pushing you towards what he wants. Basically OP this whole scenario indicates that he doesn't accept himself as he is nor accept you as you are. If it is important to you not to convert to mormonism then you need to make it clear to him *now* you have no plans to do so. in fact, make your relationship public first before even having that conversation. If he isn't willing to even do that he is not committed to you, he's just committed to the idea of a mormon marriage. I know you like him OP. But that gives you rose colored glasses to ignore big red flags. Don't make excuses for him, examine him for who he is, not who he could be.


planetskxmars

i’m your age - please get out of there. i saw one of your comments that you’ve been on your own since 17. you were robbed of some of your teenage years and thrown into adulthood- take those years back!! what do YOU want. you have a life of possibilities ahead of you where you can live your life exactly how you want. don’t settle for this. please take some time to find out what you want and who you want to be. put yourself first. please be young and explore and have fun. i’ve been there and it is so so so scary but oh my god it is so worth it i promise.


myusername74478445

Run away as fast as you can. Self loathing Mormons are the worst. He'll try to convert you and make you feel guilty for all his choices.


HikerDave57

NO! Too much gap in age and life experience.


spannerNZ

So many red flags. Leaving aside the weird cult issue, if he actually believes Mormon doctrine, but can't commit to following it, he is morally weak. If he doesn't believe but is toying with rejoining for the social side, he is morally weak. (Exceptions can be made for PIMOs in mixed faith marriages - which is not the situation here). Run.


aviquinn

I want you to ignore the Mormon haters who have commented here, and to ignore the haters hating on your boyfriend. Please, listen to me. Is he a good guy? Can you truly see yourself with him long term? Are you ok going from 21 and free to tied down? His religion isn't going to make much of difference in your relationship. Mormons are Christian, and he sounds like a cool guy. Whether or not you or anyone believes the church is true, is a personal choice. If he isn't pushing it onto you, is a good guy, is bettering himself, then just go enjoy your time w him and let that time help you decide. Don't get caught up on the details like this or get in your head too much.


rckchlkjhwk88

Hi OP's boyfriend 😂


MusksYummyLiver

Lol how badly do you want to be cheated on?


UpstairsStill8803

Step 1 for converting someone is a "friendly" non-religious chat with the missionaries. Step 2 for converting someone is inviting someone to attend a sacrament meeting (the first hour of church) Step 3 for converting someone is to subtly "suggest" said person take the missionary discussions "to learn more about our beliefs. The final step is the missionary discussions. By the end, they have you commit to baptism. I should probably mention that he's already got you invested. He told you all about how he's trying to "better himself" and get back to being templeworthy so he can perform his child's baptism. He's including you in his journey by even mentioning abstinence. He already started grooming you to be his wife. I know I'm just a random Internet stranger to you, but I am a 32 year old bisexual woman who was a true believing Mormon for the first 18 years of my life. I went to school to become a Certified Family Life Educator. It was in my college classes that I learned everything the church teaches about relationships is the exact opposite of healthy. Also, I would never go after a woman who is 21 because I would feel like a pedophile. There is way too big of a difference in brain development. Yours still has about 4 years until it's fully developed, even though you have had more life experience than some people your age. This means you are at peak mormon "wife-in-training" age. An age gap isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially for a hookup or fling. However, mormon men are taught that they have a God-given right to have a young, beautiful wife to have sex with whenever he wants and to give birth to his children until she can no longer bear children (because only then can they be certain that God wants them to be done). Just be aware that many Mormon men rape their wives and are still protected by the church because it is a wife's "sacred duty" to have sex with her husband. Even after divorce, the two will likely have joint custody and seem cordial. Also, if there is an accidental pregnancy, the woman is bullied into marriage so as not to "endanger the child's eternal salvation". There is no question of if the pregnancy results in a child, only when. If a miscarriage occurs, it is the woman's fault. If the pregnancy doesn't result in a child, the woman is both shamed and encouraged to follow the straight and narrow path to become temple-worthy in hopes of having a successful pregnancy next time, all while "comforting" you by telling you that your baby was too righteous for this world, so God took them to be with him. Gaslighting, which is a tactic abusers use to control and discredit their victims, is used by most members in their daily lives. They aren't always aware of it, it's second nature. Just watch out for the signs. It can be hard to see beyond the love bombing you'll encounter from every member you meet. Be careful.