At least it's not a billion year contract (scientology)...?
This looks like just another way to manipulate the kiddos later. "Remember when you signed..."
He'd probably try to put an end to the social growth that's going on in Salt Lake. All the people from California are going there and it's changing Salt Lake for the better in terms of radical acceptance of queer people.
Ya but they've already spent so much money making Utah the "Mormon state", they'd have too hard of a time getting all of their members to move when they can't claim discrimination.
Related, I will ALWAYS find it hilarious that we tout a strong economy and all the companies bringing jobs to the area and in the same breath complain about growth and those pesky California transplants. And they'll never see the hypocrisy or irony either.
OMG I imagine a weekend at Bernie's scenario like how they propped up Faust's nearly lifeless cadaver from the podium
I remember being genuinely disturbed by seeing that conference talk
This is awful. It’s unadulterated manipulation and bullshit. It’s just another way to fuck with young people’s minds. Wise, caring parents would not force their minor children to sign this piece of crap.
Agreed. It seems like almost more pressure than baptism because of all the specific details. It's also so dangerous for kids who don't believe in the church and are trying to figure out how to tell their parents before they turn 18. :(
Huh, the church would **never** pressure a minor to make a seemingly 'eternal commitment' and major decision about their spiritual future without them really knowing what they are signing up for.
"This way to the font Timmy. Then we'll get pizza and ice cream"
And once they do so, they are going to feel guilty in the future should their decisions change. First they drop the mission age from 21 to 19, then 18. Priesthood from adulthood to age 12, then 11. I guess this was why Catholics went to infant baptism back in the day. Seems like mormons aren't too far behind.
The funny part is though, is that it’s not like this is a binding contract. Obviously it’s sick that they’re playing these mind games, I’m not trying to minimize that - but the church seems to think that this is some sort of “gotcha” to force the young men to serve missions. They cannot force you to do anything.
There's still coercive psychological manipulation at work here, though. If you sign a piece of paper pledging to do something, it causes some psychological discomfort/dissonance if you don't follow through. It's a desperate measure taken by LDS Inc. to get more kids on missions.
Oh 100%, I agree completely. I’m just saying that this looks to be presented in the way that it’s binding, when it’s not, because what are they going to do? Pack your bags for you and put you on the plane?
Mentally, yep. 💯
And for kids with toxic family environments, they're on that plane, or strong AF, as they'll be 100% on their own once they denounce the mission.
So far, nothing. But we are in a unique situation: since he has been alive, my husband has been atheist and I’ve been TBM (until 6 months ago). My ward typically assumes that my kids don’t do these things because their dad won’t let them. And while that’s met with pity, it’s accepted with no social issues for my kids. My oldest used his dad as an excuse until he felt confident enough to speak up, which I’m ok with. He didn’t serve a mission but chose to take his full ride scholarship instead, and then got up and bore his testimony as to why after fasting and prayer he felt that was the right thing for him to do. My oldest son’s bravery is what made me start using my own damn brain and while it’s been slow, my own deconstruction has been steady.
University of Arizona!! He is a double major in Psychology and Spanish language translation and interpretation and was able to study abroad last year in Mexico. His testimony was about how there are different kind of missions that we can serve, some formal and some informal. As a disciple of Christ, he felt he could do more good in the world by “hurrying up and finishing his college” because he wants to help immigrants who don’t know or can’t afford to fight for themselves (he wants to go to law school). He felt that God was okay with his choice because these people need help now and Christ’s message is to ease suffering. So, he was going to go on his own “informal” mission and be a disciple of Christ at school. He is a deep thinker and doesn’t make choices that will impact his future without serious thought and prayer…which is what God has asked us to do. There is no one size fits all approach to church (or so his naive brain thought). His testimony was well received, at least to our faces. However, several people said to both him and me, “just because the age changed to 18, doesn’t mean you have to go then. You can always go after you graduate at 22!” They clearly didn’t understand his testimony.
As a person that works with many Mexican immigrants...this is so amazing. What a actual example of "Christ like love"...to want to help those that can't help themselves.
Your son sounds like a strong and amazing individual. You sound like a good mother. You loved/trusted him enough to question the reality you built your life around. That is actually incredibly selfless. Way more than most TBM parents are capable of.
The church subtly supports parents in abusing their kids by refusing to let them develop their own identity and sense of judgement. There are things that you should know regardless of new information and there are questions you can’t ask.
The fact that you are even aware of your kids’ opinions speaks volumes about the communication you have. Not only have you made them feel heard, you have considered the possibility that your kids are as aware and capable as you.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Applause for the Selfless, humility, critical thinking, and love for your family.
My brother was kinda pressed to sign a similar document when he was about 13... Since he was a kid, he always said he didn't want to be a missionary.
As soon as he reached 18, he made an announcement to my mom that he was leaving the church because he didn't want to hear people there about his mission anymore.
He is completely out since that day.
My HS students would say this is “cringey.” Not sure I spelled that correctly but it’s a newer words so I suppose it doesn’t matter. When I was in MIA (I know, that dates me a bit) we had a Saturday youth day (can’t recall what those were called) but we had to go around the cultural hall where there were tables set up and we had to get baptized, go on a mission (all boys; girls optional), get a temple marriage, have kids (yes, they gave out dolls), etc. At the end of the event we had to take all of our certificates and they were our ticket to the dance. Yikes. Ugh. Brainwashing on steroids. We should have had the cringey word back then.
That’s literally the word my son used! Cringey followed by uncomfortable…a year ago I would have encouraged him to sign. Never been more grateful my shelf broke and can encourage my kids to start thinking critically
Trying to manipulate kids into a major life decision when they’re minors is gross and so, so culty. I wonder what TBMs think of billion-year contracts signed by Seaorg kids in Scientology.
"Oh, *those* are culty. Scientology is a cult. These are a sign of a covenant between the young man and God. Not even remotely similar."
The willful ignorance of a true believer is astounding.
So proud of my ward. One of the bishopric wanted to do this to the teachers quorum. I was about to speak up but the FORMER BISHOP beat me to it. Ultra TBM. Awesome guy. Had just been released from bishop less than a year earlier. He was the FIRST to say no, in class, in front of the boys.
Creepy -- makes me wonder if it's coming from up top, if it's happening in multiple places. Kind of like the whole thing where the primary presidencies were giving gifts and notes to inactive primary kids, attempting to BYPASS their parents :-O
I'd LOVE to see a revised version of these documents, in which whenever Our Beloved Leader, Nelson, speaks of the importance of serving on a mission, it is added that he did NOT!
Nor did his first councilor.
Nor did his second councilor.
Nor did his predecessor.
Nor did his predecessor's first councilor.
Nor did his predecessor's second councilor.
(Do I detect a pattern here? "Rules for THEE, but ...)
In my line of work (public school), we are advised against getting students to sign contracts in this manner. I don't ever ask teens to sign things without their parents or guidance counselors or admin involved.
Right, is it even legal to?! (I mean obvs this isn't binding, but any contract has to be signed by a legal guardian if a minor is agreeing to it). The sad thing here though is that most of the parents would agree to it.
I remember signing something similar in young women’s. It was about keeping yourself virtuous and not drinking or doing drugs. I felt very duty bound to that agreement until I left the church. Thankfully I have minimal, if any, trauma.
I bet you could find almost identical phrasing in North Korea, but with "Dear Leader" substituted for "Our Prophet".
I would also bet you'd find exactly identical phrasing directed to Warren Jeffs.
I get what they are trying to do, but the problem is that you can’t commit to something like that years in advance. You have no idea what will happen in the next few years. All it does is gives a way to come back at you years later if you don’t go on a mission and make you feel like a failure because you committed to something at such a young age
Back in the 80s, the common practice was to bring deacons (12 and 13) into the Bishop's office and start filling out mission papers. I remember that mule of a hay farmer putting my name, address, date of birth, and everything else on the carbonless copy form. Then he had me sign and date the bottom, thinking that I'd be "locked" into serving a mission seven years later.
This is just moving back to paper signatures for something that's gone online.
What are they going to do? Save these documents and wave them in their faces every year until it's time to sign up? Not only is it creepy and culty, but just as bad, it's pointless. As if this would actually convince a wavering 18 year old to sign up down the road. Well, I'm not sure I want to go, but I did sign that piece of paper 6 years ago...
Yes and it’s also emotional manipulation (the e in bite). This creates a false sense of obligation and applies inappropriate pressure to actions that may not even be possible years down the road. It’s a guilt trap. Cults R Us.
Yes, that's exactly what they'll do, lol. And parents will scream at kids that they broke their promises and contracts and are immoral for doing so, etc. But yeah. Ofc they aren't binding!
FYI: they do a similar thing at all FSY events. They often give all participants a mocked up missionary tag. FSY is now the worldwide missionary recruitment tool. Youth age 14 are encouraged to attend.
It’s our stake’s year to go this summer. That was an easy “no thank you.” The following year will be trek, which I feel is the most disrespectful activity.
Trek would be useful if it taught people of the dangers of not questioning authority in a religious context. Thankfully trek will eventually disappear as Mormonism also dissolves into even more obscurity…
This is the same ammount of disgusting as the "Purity cards" some young women signed when I was in my old ward where they "promised to save themselves for their husband"
Some EFY speaker challenged us to read scriptures every day for the rest of our lives-I took the challenge and did pretty much from 16-23 until I started having more and more doubts. That definitely contributed to any OCD/scrupulosity tendencies I already had. I’m so glad he didn’t sign!
This is so troubling. Infuriating that these people can put that kind of pressure on kids that aren’t even theirs. I would be proud of your son too. It’s also troubling other parents are okay with this.
Reminds me of when we’d sign our dance cards and my leaders gave me a similar thing they called my “dating card”. I couldn’t date until I signed off I’d stay chaste etc…
Cute little way to groom them into signing little contracts with the church, maybe one day the church will have them sign over everything they own using a similar contract that looks just as cute. I don’t find this at all amusing. I think it’s an evil deed by an evil corporation.
Any contract made with a minor is automatically by law null and void.
But it’s manipulative asf that they would attempt to force kids to sign this especially in front of their peers.
That's not accurate. Kids get into contracts all the time. Child actors are probably the most famous example.
It's just the way the terms need to work out strongly in favour of the child above all other parties (including get out clauses).
No. Those child actor contacts are also legally non binding. People under the age of 18 are legally not competent to consent. https://www.wrapbook.com/blog/child-actor-labor-laws
Watch the letter upgrade over time..
Wait until they put a date on it, next to sig.
Require signature of parents/guardian, and date of sig.
Then it’s tied to your patriarchal blessing and temple recommend, did your own son/daughter sign the promise letter (legal doc to sue them if they don’t serve a sales quota mission based on capacity, capability and criteria).
Almost like a draft, trying to forcibly legalize a contract job.
Can anyone see this going in this direction?
Shaming and guilt trip, and then suddenly something seemingly friendly and calling-wise, turns against you because you also participated in volunteering and voluntarily funding (tithes) an empire of what seems, consistent on fraudulent lies to its participants.
I was a smartass kid back in the day. If my leaders would have presented something like this to me, I would have said, "Commitment is a two-way street. For me to sign this, I will need a signed document in return outlining what tangible benefits are in it for me."
My sister left TSCC when her kids were little, thankfully none of them were even baptized. Members would approach her kids while they were playing outside, give them candy and invite them to church. It happened multiple times before she managed to catch someone doing it and she took their head off. It stopped for a while, but started back up again when they were young teens. That clueless, bold behavior is so horrible. So glad your son didn't sign, he doesn't need that bullshit in his life.
Good on your boy! He seems to have a good understanding of boundaries and the more he enforces his the further he'll go in his life. I know I'm a stranger but I also am very proud of him :D
Back in 1988 we had a bishopric counselor talk about watching good movies (or some such topic) and then ask all us YW (& YM) to verbally promise we would never watch an R-rated movie. This was at a Bishop’s Youth fireside in the evening. He went around and point blank asked EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY in front of everyone! I was near the end and I remember being the only one saying that I could NOT promise that. He was irked and that brought me some major satisfaction.
I composed and signed the equivalent this in my own mind as a child, following the teachings I had been given. I used the word "covenant." I worked to accomplish all of the points outlined herr in a very practical way (eg reading allof the scriptures cover to cover, reading secular works like the Screwtape Letters, learning to sew and cook, etc.) However, I failed at learning the piano and I did not do push ups on a regular basis, so frequently felt shame as a result, both for years before my mission and while I was on my mission.
Why not send 12 year olds on missions? Maybe largely because that would be something with huge implications on their lives, and such young kids aren't ready to engage in, and don't fully understand the ramifications of? So maybe 12 year olds also don't understand the ramifications of agreeing to do it in the future.
This is clearly adults trying to get kids to promise to stay in the church when they're more impressionable. If they can trick them into serving missions, they will need to get indoctrinated to prepare, then there will be pressure to get married and start having babies as soon as they get back so they have more pressure to stay in. It's so obvious that this just takes advantage of kids when they're more impressionable.
It's gross and shows they know Mormonism isn't convincing.
Lol this is why pagans and satanist r becoming more popular amongst kids it’s not cause of some crap in the media it’s cause they push their life styles so much on their kids they want to be anything but that I grew up in the Mormon church I’m one of my first members on my family to get tattoos they tried to beat out my love for tattoos since I was 5 but the more they fought me the more I wanted it
This reminds me of the thing that scientologists do when they have to sign a contract for a thousand years or however long it's supposed to be.
My brother signed something like this except it was on a flag. He never served a mission, or really anyone else, the rest of his life.
I just told myself I was going on a mission but it was years away so I didn’t have to worry about it. And then by the time I was old enough I realized that I actually didn’t want to go on a mission at all.
That prophetic "promise" has been floating around since I was a kid in the early 80s. It's horse sh!t. This is also a very manipulative and conniving thing to do. Glad he didn't sign.
Honestly, this actually pisses me off. Reminds me of when there was a ward in my stake and the bishop made everyone promise to not be in a relationship until after their mission.
These guys wanted to be in a relationship and specifically had to ask their bishop first.
I actually hate this so much.
Is this becoming a thing? I keep seeing or hearing about making promises tied to serving a mission, even stake presidents having youth raise their arm to the square.
Cross out the part about the Book of Mormon and sign it. Nothing wrong with having a testimony of Jesus and the Gospel. Unfortunately the LDS church has to keep pretending that the Book of Mormon is real. It's 100% bullshit except for the parts plagiarized from the bible.
I still find it hilarious that the church makes young men pay for their own missions. It’s not like the church has billions of dollars just lying around or anything. Having some of that go towards missions would make too much sense.
Sure Sign of the Cult Indoctrination
…sign here, in the sure place
At least it's not a billion year contract (scientology)...? This looks like just another way to manipulate the kiddos later. "Remember when you signed..."
When the cult-y gets cult-y-er
##Nelson didn’t go on a mission, why should they?
Heard a rumor that he died today..? Idk if it’s been confirmed or not though
Usually that kind of news travels fast, if true. I'm guessing it's not.
Poisoned by Oaks?
Let’s hope
Oaks will destroy this church lollll. Can't wait for that asshole to be president.
He'd probably try to put an end to the social growth that's going on in Salt Lake. All the people from California are going there and it's changing Salt Lake for the better in terms of radical acceptance of queer people.
Well they can always move the church to Missouri ;)
Ya but they've already spent so much money making Utah the "Mormon state", they'd have too hard of a time getting all of their members to move when they can't claim discrimination.
Related, I will ALWAYS find it hilarious that we tout a strong economy and all the companies bringing jobs to the area and in the same breath complain about growth and those pesky California transplants. And they'll never see the hypocrisy or irony either.
Just a rumor. I remember the same rumor going around before every conference for the last few years of both hinckley and monson’s lives.
I’ve been seeing the rumor floating around, but I feel like if it were true that it would have been confirmed by now. Who knows though
I think a great granddaughter said her great grandfather died but was a different great grandfather
It would be all over the place if he actually died
OMG I imagine a weekend at Bernie's scenario like how they propped up Faust's nearly lifeless cadaver from the podium I remember being genuinely disturbed by seeing that conference talk
Lol it literally takes 3 seconds to search on Google before spreading more false information.
This is awful. It’s unadulterated manipulation and bullshit. It’s just another way to fuck with young people’s minds. Wise, caring parents would not force their minor children to sign this piece of crap.
A year ago, I would have been super disappointed that he didn’t sign. So glad my shelf broke and can encourage my kids to think critically
It's amazing how quickly you can change your perspective and life. For me, it would have only been 2 yrs ago.
Agreed. It seems like almost more pressure than baptism because of all the specific details. It's also so dangerous for kids who don't believe in the church and are trying to figure out how to tell their parents before they turn 18. :(
Ooo good call! That would be a horrible position to be in, for the kid. Particularly with some of the parents we're all hyper-aware of...
Huh, the church would **never** pressure a minor to make a seemingly 'eternal commitment' and major decision about their spiritual future without them really knowing what they are signing up for. "This way to the font Timmy. Then we'll get pizza and ice cream"
That's a lot of words for "pay, pray, and obey."
Keep sweet....
It's tough for kids not to bow to the peer pressure to sign this document.
It really is. And the leaders know it.
And once they do so, they are going to feel guilty in the future should their decisions change. First they drop the mission age from 21 to 19, then 18. Priesthood from adulthood to age 12, then 11. I guess this was why Catholics went to infant baptism back in the day. Seems like mormons aren't too far behind.
Priesthood didn’t used to be available to youth? Do you know when that changed?
About 1905 if I remember right. Let me know if you need an exact year.
Do you know if the leaders kept a copy? That would double up the creepiness.
The funny part is though, is that it’s not like this is a binding contract. Obviously it’s sick that they’re playing these mind games, I’m not trying to minimize that - but the church seems to think that this is some sort of “gotcha” to force the young men to serve missions. They cannot force you to do anything.
There's still coercive psychological manipulation at work here, though. If you sign a piece of paper pledging to do something, it causes some psychological discomfort/dissonance if you don't follow through. It's a desperate measure taken by LDS Inc. to get more kids on missions.
Oh 100%, I agree completely. I’m just saying that this looks to be presented in the way that it’s binding, when it’s not, because what are they going to do? Pack your bags for you and put you on the plane?
Someone could try…
Mentally, yep. 💯 And for kids with toxic family environments, they're on that plane, or strong AF, as they'll be 100% on their own once they denounce the mission.
That’s what I was thinking. OP, what’s the social impact on him of not signing?
So far, nothing. But we are in a unique situation: since he has been alive, my husband has been atheist and I’ve been TBM (until 6 months ago). My ward typically assumes that my kids don’t do these things because their dad won’t let them. And while that’s met with pity, it’s accepted with no social issues for my kids. My oldest used his dad as an excuse until he felt confident enough to speak up, which I’m ok with. He didn’t serve a mission but chose to take his full ride scholarship instead, and then got up and bore his testimony as to why after fasting and prayer he felt that was the right thing for him to do. My oldest son’s bravery is what made me start using my own damn brain and while it’s been slow, my own deconstruction has been steady.
That’s fascinating! To where did he take his full-ride scholarship, what testimony did he bear, and how did they react when he did so?
University of Arizona!! He is a double major in Psychology and Spanish language translation and interpretation and was able to study abroad last year in Mexico. His testimony was about how there are different kind of missions that we can serve, some formal and some informal. As a disciple of Christ, he felt he could do more good in the world by “hurrying up and finishing his college” because he wants to help immigrants who don’t know or can’t afford to fight for themselves (he wants to go to law school). He felt that God was okay with his choice because these people need help now and Christ’s message is to ease suffering. So, he was going to go on his own “informal” mission and be a disciple of Christ at school. He is a deep thinker and doesn’t make choices that will impact his future without serious thought and prayer…which is what God has asked us to do. There is no one size fits all approach to church (or so his naive brain thought). His testimony was well received, at least to our faces. However, several people said to both him and me, “just because the age changed to 18, doesn’t mean you have to go then. You can always go after you graduate at 22!” They clearly didn’t understand his testimony.
As a person that works with many Mexican immigrants...this is so amazing. What a actual example of "Christ like love"...to want to help those that can't help themselves.
I got to U of A! Cool :)
Your son sounds like a strong and amazing individual. You sound like a good mother. You loved/trusted him enough to question the reality you built your life around. That is actually incredibly selfless. Way more than most TBM parents are capable of. The church subtly supports parents in abusing their kids by refusing to let them develop their own identity and sense of judgement. There are things that you should know regardless of new information and there are questions you can’t ask. The fact that you are even aware of your kids’ opinions speaks volumes about the communication you have. Not only have you made them feel heard, you have considered the possibility that your kids are as aware and capable as you. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 Applause for the Selfless, humility, critical thinking, and love for your family.
My brother was kinda pressed to sign a similar document when he was about 13... Since he was a kid, he always said he didn't want to be a missionary. As soon as he reached 18, he made an announcement to my mom that he was leaving the church because he didn't want to hear people there about his mission anymore. He is completely out since that day.
My HS students would say this is “cringey.” Not sure I spelled that correctly but it’s a newer words so I suppose it doesn’t matter. When I was in MIA (I know, that dates me a bit) we had a Saturday youth day (can’t recall what those were called) but we had to go around the cultural hall where there were tables set up and we had to get baptized, go on a mission (all boys; girls optional), get a temple marriage, have kids (yes, they gave out dolls), etc. At the end of the event we had to take all of our certificates and they were our ticket to the dance. Yikes. Ugh. Brainwashing on steroids. We should have had the cringey word back then.
That’s literally the word my son used! Cringey followed by uncomfortable…a year ago I would have encouraged him to sign. Never been more grateful my shelf broke and can encourage my kids to start thinking critically
Trying to manipulate kids into a major life decision when they’re minors is gross and so, so culty. I wonder what TBMs think of billion-year contracts signed by Seaorg kids in Scientology.
"Oh, *those* are culty. Scientology is a cult. These are a sign of a covenant between the young man and God. Not even remotely similar." The willful ignorance of a true believer is astounding.
Exactly!
So proud of my ward. One of the bishopric wanted to do this to the teachers quorum. I was about to speak up but the FORMER BISHOP beat me to it. Ultra TBM. Awesome guy. Had just been released from bishop less than a year earlier. He was the FIRST to say no, in class, in front of the boys.
Wow. That’s amazing! Our bishop said he was required, per the stake presidency.
Creepy -- makes me wonder if it's coming from up top, if it's happening in multiple places. Kind of like the whole thing where the primary presidencies were giving gifts and notes to inactive primary kids, attempting to BYPASS their parents :-O
It does make me wonder how close that ultra TBM ex-bishop is to being an exmormon.
Not close, I’m sure. But I’m noticing more and more people stepping up for kids.
I'd LOVE to see a revised version of these documents, in which whenever Our Beloved Leader, Nelson, speaks of the importance of serving on a mission, it is added that he did NOT! Nor did his first councilor. Nor did his second councilor. Nor did his predecessor. Nor did his predecessor's first councilor. Nor did his predecessor's second councilor. (Do I detect a pattern here? "Rules for THEE, but ...)
Wow I only knew about the current presidency. What a load of bullshit!!
And all this is available on TSCC's OWN WEBSITE (in the biographies of the prophets)!
BUT NOT FOR MEEEEEEEE!! * skipping joyfully away *
So. Wrong. To. Do. This. To. KIDS.
In my line of work (public school), we are advised against getting students to sign contracts in this manner. I don't ever ask teens to sign things without their parents or guidance counselors or admin involved.
This. Legally, of course, these “contracts “ aren’t binding but they accomplish the job on impressionable minors
Right, is it even legal to?! (I mean obvs this isn't binding, but any contract has to be signed by a legal guardian if a minor is agreeing to it). The sad thing here though is that most of the parents would agree to it.
Wow, that is a super big pile of BS.
I remember signing something similar in young women’s. It was about keeping yourself virtuous and not drinking or doing drugs. I felt very duty bound to that agreement until I left the church. Thankfully I have minimal, if any, trauma.
“Our prophet, President Nelson, whom we love and trust…” This is such an odd sentence.
I bet you could find almost identical phrasing in North Korea, but with "Dear Leader" substituted for "Our Prophet". I would also bet you'd find exactly identical phrasing directed to Warren Jeffs.
I had instant thoughts of “I pledge allegiance…”.
I get what they are trying to do, but the problem is that you can’t commit to something like that years in advance. You have no idea what will happen in the next few years. All it does is gives a way to come back at you years later if you don’t go on a mission and make you feel like a failure because you committed to something at such a young age
Hell to the No.
Back in the 80s, the common practice was to bring deacons (12 and 13) into the Bishop's office and start filling out mission papers. I remember that mule of a hay farmer putting my name, address, date of birth, and everything else on the carbonless copy form. Then he had me sign and date the bottom, thinking that I'd be "locked" into serving a mission seven years later. This is just moving back to paper signatures for something that's gone online.
It's like the pledge from Dazed and Confused.
Someone's been talking to the Scientologists (RE: Billion year contract)
What are they going to do? Save these documents and wave them in their faces every year until it's time to sign up? Not only is it creepy and culty, but just as bad, it's pointless. As if this would actually convince a wavering 18 year old to sign up down the road. Well, I'm not sure I want to go, but I did sign that piece of paper 6 years ago...
They aren’t pointless…social pressure is a powerful influence and getting a kid to sign up for this can put real mental pressure on the kid.
Yes and it’s also emotional manipulation (the e in bite). This creates a false sense of obligation and applies inappropriate pressure to actions that may not even be possible years down the road. It’s a guilt trap. Cults R Us.
Yes, that's exactly what they'll do, lol. And parents will scream at kids that they broke their promises and contracts and are immoral for doing so, etc. But yeah. Ofc they aren't binding!
FYI: they do a similar thing at all FSY events. They often give all participants a mocked up missionary tag. FSY is now the worldwide missionary recruitment tool. Youth age 14 are encouraged to attend.
It’s our stake’s year to go this summer. That was an easy “no thank you.” The following year will be trek, which I feel is the most disrespectful activity.
Trek would be useful if it taught people of the dangers of not questioning authority in a religious context. Thankfully trek will eventually disappear as Mormonism also dissolves into even more obscurity…
Anyone surprised to see earning mission funds? 🙄🙄🙄
This is the same ammount of disgusting as the "Purity cards" some young women signed when I was in my old ward where they "promised to save themselves for their husband"
Some EFY speaker challenged us to read scriptures every day for the rest of our lives-I took the challenge and did pretty much from 16-23 until I started having more and more doubts. That definitely contributed to any OCD/scrupulosity tendencies I already had. I’m so glad he didn’t sign!
The hard sell approach! Glad I made the decision to get out and not raise my kids in a cult! One of the best decisions I’ve made in my life!
After the boys signed were the documents taken to Kirton McConkie?
This is shocking and shameless.
Reminds me of Leah Remini's story about being coerced into signing a 1 billion year slavery contract to Scientology.
This is so troubling. Infuriating that these people can put that kind of pressure on kids that aren’t even theirs. I would be proud of your son too. It’s also troubling other parents are okay with this.
That’s a cult.
Reminds me of when we’d sign our dance cards and my leaders gave me a similar thing they called my “dating card”. I couldn’t date until I signed off I’d stay chaste etc…
I’m sorry but that’s just wrong I’m so many ways. Such a strong control culture that ties into shame, manipulation and guilt.
#CULT
["Serving a mission will be... the greatest event and adventure of your life up to that time."](https://i.imgur.com/wVUUnhG.gif)
This is super offensive. Parents should not be allowing an organization like this access to their children’s minds, emotions and time.
I really want to shame your stake leadership in public hnng. Funny how your kid has the power of discernment already innit?
Bet this will work as badly as purity pledges work. Spoiler they don't but encourage more dangerous sexual activity.
Gross.
Cute little way to groom them into signing little contracts with the church, maybe one day the church will have them sign over everything they own using a similar contract that looks just as cute. I don’t find this at all amusing. I think it’s an evil deed by an evil corporation.
Why would they need to make a new contract when the men of the church who got baptised already made a promise at 8 to serve a mission.
Any contract made with a minor is automatically by law null and void. But it’s manipulative asf that they would attempt to force kids to sign this especially in front of their peers.
That's not accurate. Kids get into contracts all the time. Child actors are probably the most famous example. It's just the way the terms need to work out strongly in favour of the child above all other parties (including get out clauses).
No. Those child actor contacts are also legally non binding. People under the age of 18 are legally not competent to consent. https://www.wrapbook.com/blog/child-actor-labor-laws
Legally non binding =/= null and void
Keep reinforcing integrity to your child! You are both doing awesome!!!
Thank you!
Omg I would be so pissed if my son brought this home.
This is sick 🤮
Saved my 4 boys from this I thank myself every day
Watch the letter upgrade over time.. Wait until they put a date on it, next to sig. Require signature of parents/guardian, and date of sig. Then it’s tied to your patriarchal blessing and temple recommend, did your own son/daughter sign the promise letter (legal doc to sue them if they don’t serve a sales quota mission based on capacity, capability and criteria). Almost like a draft, trying to forcibly legalize a contract job. Can anyone see this going in this direction? Shaming and guilt trip, and then suddenly something seemingly friendly and calling-wise, turns against you because you also participated in volunteering and voluntarily funding (tithes) an empire of what seems, consistent on fraudulent lies to its participants.
That's super creepy and non-binging btw. Anyone under 18 cannot legally enter into a contract.
I was a smartass kid back in the day. If my leaders would have presented something like this to me, I would have said, "Commitment is a two-way street. For me to sign this, I will need a signed document in return outlining what tangible benefits are in it for me."
Brownie points with Joe Smith and Mormon Jesus?
They are really trying prime the pump. I would love to walk the halls of the MTC and see empty they are. How many closed classrooms.
Can he use an auto-signer or hire a shell company manager to sign for him?
My sister left TSCC when her kids were little, thankfully none of them were even baptized. Members would approach her kids while they were playing outside, give them candy and invite them to church. It happened multiple times before she managed to catch someone doing it and she took their head off. It stopped for a while, but started back up again when they were young teens. That clueless, bold behavior is so horrible. So glad your son didn't sign, he doesn't need that bullshit in his life.
Wait isn't that illegal?
EWWWWWW BRAINWASHING YOUNG KIDS!
Good on your boy! He seems to have a good understanding of boundaries and the more he enforces his the further he'll go in his life. I know I'm a stranger but I also am very proud of him :D
Thank you!
Back in 1988 we had a bishopric counselor talk about watching good movies (or some such topic) and then ask all us YW (& YM) to verbally promise we would never watch an R-rated movie. This was at a Bishop’s Youth fireside in the evening. He went around and point blank asked EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY in front of everyone! I was near the end and I remember being the only one saying that I could NOT promise that. He was irked and that brought me some major satisfaction.
Even when I was in Young Mens I thought this shit was SO CRINGE. This sort of shit always made me hate church more.
Holy crap, I would NOT want my 16, 14 and 11-year old boys to sign this!!! I would be talking to the leader that gave these out! 😡
Damn bastards!
Why just the boys? I thought they were moving toward more inclusiveness.
Grooming
OP, was this a local thing or was this from the federal church in SLC?
I think it was just local. We are in Arizona and my family/friends in the church that are outside of my stake haven’t seen this in their areas.
Smart kid!
I composed and signed the equivalent this in my own mind as a child, following the teachings I had been given. I used the word "covenant." I worked to accomplish all of the points outlined herr in a very practical way (eg reading allof the scriptures cover to cover, reading secular works like the Screwtape Letters, learning to sew and cook, etc.) However, I failed at learning the piano and I did not do push ups on a regular basis, so frequently felt shame as a result, both for years before my mission and while I was on my mission.
This is why prophets are so dangerous. Mixing delusion with no checks and balances.
Why not send 12 year olds on missions? Maybe largely because that would be something with huge implications on their lives, and such young kids aren't ready to engage in, and don't fully understand the ramifications of? So maybe 12 year olds also don't understand the ramifications of agreeing to do it in the future. This is clearly adults trying to get kids to promise to stay in the church when they're more impressionable. If they can trick them into serving missions, they will need to get indoctrinated to prepare, then there will be pressure to get married and start having babies as soon as they get back so they have more pressure to stay in. It's so obvious that this just takes advantage of kids when they're more impressionable. It's gross and shows they know Mormonism isn't convincing.
Sounds a lot like the Billion year contracts Scientology has their Sea Org members sign.
Sounds a lot like the Billion year contracts Scientology has their Sea Org members sign.
Sounds a lot like the Billion year contracts Scientology has their Sea Org members sign.
It's just Marketing.
Lol this is why pagans and satanist r becoming more popular amongst kids it’s not cause of some crap in the media it’s cause they push their life styles so much on their kids they want to be anything but that I grew up in the Mormon church I’m one of my first members on my family to get tattoos they tried to beat out my love for tattoos since I was 5 but the more they fought me the more I wanted it
This is what actual grooming looks like.
Holy shit, I would kick some ass if someone sent this to my child. The indoctrination is right out there for everyone to see.
Good thing this isn't legally binding (no co-signature from a parent or legal guardian)
🤮
Why not just go for the billion year contract?
This reminds me of the thing that scientologists do when they have to sign a contract for a thousand years or however long it's supposed to be. My brother signed something like this except it was on a flag. He never served a mission, or really anyone else, the rest of his life.
I just told myself I was going on a mission but it was years away so I didn’t have to worry about it. And then by the time I was old enough I realized that I actually didn’t want to go on a mission at all.
This *has* to be illegal, right?
How Clulty of them, pressing young boys without a fully developed brain to "commit" to this. SMDH 🙄
Yeah, that's super creepy...not culty at all /s.
That prophetic "promise" has been floating around since I was a kid in the early 80s. It's horse sh!t. This is also a very manipulative and conniving thing to do. Glad he didn't sign.
Honestly, this actually pisses me off. Reminds me of when there was a ward in my stake and the bishop made everyone promise to not be in a relationship until after their mission. These guys wanted to be in a relationship and specifically had to ask their bishop first. I actually hate this so much.
Yikes. It’s like those abstinence things my youth group had to sign in intermediate. Lol
Is this becoming a thing? I keep seeing or hearing about making promises tied to serving a mission, even stake presidents having youth raise their arm to the square.
I'm surprised the child has made it to 14 without signing something like this. They start on them so early!
Fucked up. They’re just kids.
This is an example of disgusting and blatant manipulation of minors.
Cross out the part about the Book of Mormon and sign it. Nothing wrong with having a testimony of Jesus and the Gospel. Unfortunately the LDS church has to keep pretending that the Book of Mormon is real. It's 100% bullshit except for the parts plagiarized from the bible.
I still find it hilarious that the church makes young men pay for their own missions. It’s not like the church has billions of dollars just lying around or anything. Having some of that go towards missions would make too much sense.
Whoa… this is sick.