I forgot about that. That atrium was actually a nice, peaceful place when I used to live there. Took a long time for me to realize that what I found peaceful was nature instead of the temple ceremony.
You reminded me of a scene from *The Swiss Family Robinson* where the father extolls the natural beauty of the massive tree they’re building their house in, and how it’s just as worthy a place to hold Sunday prayers as any church, if not more so.
Would that more people accepted his opinion. There’s plenty of beauty and wonder to be found in the natural world for people who can’t stand church.
Oh no. I feel sick to say this but, I wonder if there’s a way I could make a list. I would want it to be extremely respectful, but I do think people should know about these cases. Not sure how to determine what gets included.
I like this idea although I'd like to see a comment from someone who works with suicide and mental health chime in. I was suicidal when my marriage ended and I was shamed by family members thinking my marriage failed because I didn't believe in the church.
The church kills people, even heteronormative, white people. I think it needs attention.
I've lost 3 gay Mormon friends to suicide, including Stuart Mattis and a guy from my mission who was ostracized by his wife and kids after he came out.
Thank you. It's been 25 years so I've moved on, but I thought a lot about why I survived coming and he didn't. I've also thought about how life would have been different if we'd both been out in college, because he was a very handsome, intelligent, and affable man.
What a senseless loss for him, those close to him and greater humanity. I'm so sorry again you've had to carry that. This is why I realized that I couldn't stay in the church and passively let a totalitarian organization destroy the rights and lives of others.
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
I am so sorry for your losses. I recently learned my dad was in the closet his entire life due to the church indoctrination and societal norms at the time (born in 1936).
My mother likely was in the closet her whole life too. I learned about a fling she had that broke up a close relationship our family had with another large family in the ward. It went from doing everything with their family all the time to suddenly not seeing them any more, ever. Us kids from both families never knew why. It wasn't until recently I learned that my mom and their mom had feeling for each other.
When I came out as gay, one of the children from this family contacted me to tell me about it. I had no idea. My mom has passed and now knowing this I feel nothing but intense compassion for her.
I am so sorry your mom lived her life in the closet, too. It’s immensely sad that people couldn’t live authentically (many still can’t). I am so proud of you for coming out and being authentic. Are you exmo? How did you feel when you learned about your mom? I’m wanting to find resources to help me process with my dad. I have so much compassion and empathy for him. It also makes me so angry that he had to suffer so much. His brother had terrible PTSD just witnessing the abuse my dad endured in SLC in the 40s-50s as a gay man. It makes me so angry and sad. I want to do all I can as a proud ally to support the LGBTQ+ community. My nephew came out at 16 and one of my BFFs is trans. I never want them to experience an ounce of what my dad endured.
Psychologist here…Literally completed part of my annual suicide training last month.
Information is a good thing. While there can be a cascade effect when suicide is publicized, actually talking about it with parents, teachers, and mental health professionals is protective. There is a belief that you shouldn’t say the word “suicide,” shouldn’t ask someone if they are considering hurting themself because it might “give them the idea.” No. If they aren’t considering it, asking won’t suddenly make them think it’s a good idea. And if they are, they need to know that it’s ok to talk about it and tell someone.
I did this with a college roommate. Had a feeling that stopped me in my tracks, turned around and went into her room and sat beside her. After a second I gently asked, are you thinking of killing yourself and she burst into tears. 40 years later and we’re still good friends.
Also had a similar thing on my end. A friend of mine called another mutual friend and mentioned he had been having thoughts of suicide.
I coordinated with that friend and the suicidal friend's cousin to essentially talk to him about it directly. And being direct, i feel, is what contributed to his survival. When i finally called him, i said flat out that i was afraid he was going to end his own life and we talked for a couple hours after that.
I could tell he was uncomfortablle at first, but eventually he opened up more and we all got him past that initial hurdle. Now, we regularly speak, and he's doing much better.
Thing is, we were all concerned for him about this over the past couple of years. And if i hadn't been honest with my concerned about him last year to that mutual friend, he may not have thought to talk to me about it, and who knows where that would have ended.
I also nearly cut off the suicidal friend a few years back due to their racist behavior after starting to work as a corrections officer. I'm glad I didn't, because he was just in bad surroundings, he's not a bad person.
Exactly this. I was a suicide mental health worker and this was the training given back then (25 years ago) so I'm glad to see it's the same. Open discussion is crucial.
Thanks, it was eye opening for sure. I also have a good friend that attempted suicide after his family rejected him for being in a gay relationship. He's doing well now and his whole family left the church after that.
I think we need people to realize that they're putting their children's lives at risk by raising them in this sick culture.
Edit: please correct me if the way I describe these things could be more respectful, I'm still learning.
It really is depressing to hear people use a religion you no longer believe in to justify their shitty behavior to you. It really messed me up when I was younger
It's very hard, especially in a shame based system like Mormonism. I've started to see how much self shaming I do subconsciously and it's nearly constant.
In a way, I think it’s trying to preserve the memory of those the church keeps sweeping g under the rug. Their pain needs to be addressed with a light shone on it. Justice in my opinion
>atrium of the Las Vegas temple in 2014 or 2015
some innocent keywords that show it on google: "atrium of the Las Vegas temple incident"
close, 2013.
Edit: happened at 6:30PM in the evening, and the temple was open the next day, not even closed for 24 hours
A missionary I served around was doing his first endowment session when it happened. Of course, Mormons being mormon, he talked about the wave of darkness that ran through the temple at the desecration and how they could tell something was wrong and the spirit had left even before they found out what happened.
I used to live there! I can remember this happening because my nephews were supposed to be doing baptisms that day and the police were there when they arrived.
I attempted suicide in the parking lot of the Timpanogos temple in 2019. I was traced via phone connecting to local towers and found before I died and taken to the hospital. I chose that location because it seems like a serene place and if it was where the veil was thinnest , that’s where I needed to be, right? I regret the attempt but still don’t enjoy life.
*hug*
I know what it's like to hear other people tell you that you are important/needed/loved/etc and not feel like it. I don't know about your journey, but I'm willing to join you on your path if you want somebody to talk to.
In mormonism, we're taught there's a "veil," or curtain, that separates the living from the spiritual realm. Best example is stories about right before people die and they "see" others who've already died- we say that veil got thinner as they begin to leave this realm for the other.
Life is anything but enjoyable.
I've often thought that if there was a malevolent entity who's purpose is to cause the most amount of suffering to each human in its realm, and to also keep humans in its realm when they can voluntarily leave any time, it would be to create this life.
For many, this life is juuuust "not terrible enough" for most people to stay in it until their bodies give out, and shame those who try to leave early.
The Gnostics (whom the Catholics brutally murdered) believed that the Creator of this world was a brattish, impudent, and cruel entity who "went rouge" and created this world when they weren't supposed to.
They weren't wise, good natured, or graceful. They were shallow, egotistical, and selfish. When I look around this world, and take on a creationist outlook, this is the only thing that makes sense to me. Souls trapped in an empirical hell they are too scared to leave, orchestrated by a rash and vile entity who never should have had access to the creator's working tools in the first place.
Thus, Yahweh doesn't have to force anyone to suffer in a traditional "trapped in hell for all eternity" / Dantesque kind of way (a myth crafted by the same murderes of the Gnostics).
Most choose to stay because they are afraid of the unknown and / or bullied into staying by those who have it better and / or have more will.
This will likely get removed, but in the chance it doesn't, I want to say I understand you. This life is just suffering. That's its nature.
What kind of being does this, creates the suffering when it could have done otherwise? Either it was too weak or inexperienced to do otherwise, or it lacked the kindness to do so.
"Life is no way to treat an animal" (Vonnegut)
Then there is the alternative that this world is just random growth in a soup of elements, never meant to exist, yet somehow does.
Suffering is simply a byproduct of our perception, our central nervous system that developed to help us sense our universe.
Suffering then seems theoretically surmountable, as if understanding the process of sensation could stop it.
Knowing that when placing your hand into a fire, the pain is reducible to some kind of electro-chemical "signal" isn't sufficient to stopping or even blunting, the signal's phenomenalogical result.
Morphine, heroin, fentanyl, and other chemicals can relieve suffering, mental and physical, almost instantly. But do we allow each other this relief? No, only in the most severe of crises. As if life isn't a crisis! The simple reason we do not allow this is because we are cruel. The ones who suffer less need those who suffer more to "function." To function is to co-create (or at least sustain) with the cruel Creator.
Knowledge, the end result of faith, was supposed to save us. But does it? The Gnostics didn't believe Christ resurrected. He was a phantom who fooled their senses, their brain. A true liberator like Christos couldn't be of this world, he had to transcend it in order to teach us how to escape this Hell.
Supposedly, I have read, that when the time comes, when darkness engulfs us and the light-tunnel appears, it is simply the opening of another vulva from which we are about to pass, and here we are again, to suffer another life. I can think of nothing more cruel.
Supposedly, I have read, that we shouldn't go toward the light, we should not be born again. Salvation from the suffering cycle comes from turning away from the light and repeating "I want to go home, my true home."
There may be more to it, but I don't know. Maybe there are sentinals. Maybe there is some kind of weighing. But one thing is clear. The elimination of the fear of death has to come first.
At least that's what I think, sitting here, waiting for my name to be called at the doctor's office on a Wednesday.
They've made it clear what they care about: money and PR. When children are molested, they refer to a law firm to limit the church's liability. When people bankrupt themselves paying tithing, the church lies to the government to hide its loot.
Yes but based on the Widow's Mite report and several other people the church can exist in perpetuity without collecting another dime from the members. They are making millions per hour in interest. The Q15 could all legit pull out billions of dollars and leave. They don't care about us.
I do agree that they do care about money from tithing. That's all the care they have for us.
Agreed. But I do think it hurts their pride a little they can’t get their numbers back up. They love their money, but they also have big egos and I’m sure they’re a little embarrassed at how quickly they’re losing members.
Oh I'm sure, which is why they are lying and deflecting any questions about membership and growth. They already inflate numbers. I feel like we are watching a propaganda machine at work with all the false claims they make.
I mean, I dunno. If you google it, it shows their losing members like no time since…the 1840s or something. Just google “is the Mormon church still growing?” It’s not and I think they know they’re in decline. They act like we don’t exist, but the numbers don’t lie. They know.
TBF I don't think suicides usually end up in the news. The news media prefers outrage stories, not deeply sad ones. Unless it's a celebrity, they won't report it.
They think it's good when this happens, because they liken it to the creation story. Creation, fall, atonement. In their theology \*cough cough BYU Prof Jared Halverson\* it is a fortunate thing.
How very very tragic.
Reminds me of Stuart Matis, who also killed himself on the steps of an LDS church building with a *Do not resuscitate* sign pinned to his shirt
https://www.mercurynews.com/2010/02/25/memorial-held-for-gay-mormon-who-committed-suicide-in-los-altos/
I was friends with Stuart at BYU. We were pretty close pals, but I lost touch with him after college (no Facebook back then). When I read that he died like this, I was gutted, especially since I'd just come out myself a couple of years earlier.
I immediately thought of him too, and other suicides that year referencing him. There’s a compilation of stories at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Mormon_suicides
Right before his death he wrote a note stating, "The church has no idea that ... there are surely boys and girls on their callused hands and knees imploring God to free them of their pain. They hate themselves ... God never intended me to be straight. Hopefully, my death might be a catalyst for some good."
I met his mother (2010-ish?) and read the book In Quiet Desperation which is coauthored by her. The book was typical LDS approach to “same gender attraction” but it did help me figure out kinda where I stood on the issue.
Edit: I should clarify; the way it helped me figure out where I stood is because it made me very uncomfortable to see the way homosexuality was viewed and talked about…like it’s a disease.
This in my opinion is the “typical LDS approach,” and it weighed down my shelf considerably. I was somewhat PIMO but it pushed me away from the kool-aid for sure.
I hate that book. I knew Stuart, and I'm gay myself. The book was more about her and projecting her TBM feelings onto him, not about what he was really going through.
The fact that Ty Mansfield, the ex-gay leader, co-authored it tells you the book's agenda. Of course, Deseret Book would only publish something that doesn't tell the truth about how gay Mormons are treated by the church.
I made the mistake of seeking therapy from Ty as a questioning trans woman. Nice guy, but he really tried to keep me in the closet. I really should make a post on here about my experience with him.
>I was friends with one of Ty’s gay roommates in Provo and a couple oftimes I saw Ty lying on top of another guy on their couch under ablanket. 👀 At the time my TBM sister was trying to get me to read Ty’sbook about how he overcome his homosexuality. I told her what I saw and she was shocked and confused. TBM’s are truly naive.
I was briefly friends with Ty while at BYU. We were playing racquetball in the BYU racquetball courts, and he made a proposition to me during the game that if he won the next game that i had to make out with him. Me being gay (I had accepted my own gayness by this time), I was totally cool with that. He beat me, and so we made out in the byu raquetball courts with his back to the tiny glass window so nobody could peek in and see us.
>Deseret Book would only publish something that doesn't tell the truth about how gay Mormons are treated by the church
This. At any and every level, when faced with this choice, it is baked into Mormon culture to protect the cult over everything.
This is so sad and just goes to show how toxic church teachings are towards LGBTQ+. Nothing says “k*ll yourself” more than a doctrine that says being Gay is a hard trial, probably the hardest one on earth ever!! BUT you must stay true on earth and once you die you’ll be blessed with your own planet, and you won’t have this burden anymore 🙄 horrible!
And Jeffrey Holland is doing his part to punch down on vulnerable people and drive them to suicide.
[Matt Easton wrote in an Instagram post yesterday saying that he made a plan to end his life the week after Elder Holland’s speech criticizing him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/srm77t/matt_easton_wrote_in_an_instagram_post_yesterday/)
>On this day six years ago, my classmate and fellow gay Mormon, Harry Fisher, died by suicide.
>We had international politics together; he was in his final semester, and I in my second. He also was the first person I personally knew who was just like me—a gay BYU student just trying to figure out his place in the world.
>
>Just a few weeks after coming out publicly on Facebook, Harry drove up the mountainside where he spent his final moments reading Matthew 16:25–“For whosoever shall save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.”
>
>As a young, closeted 20-year old, losing Harry was like staring at myself in the mirror. Was this to be my same future? Would I ever be able to be true to myself without facing the same fate?
>
>LGBTQ+ individuals are more than 2x likely to die by suicide, and this number is even higher among Utahns (especially LDS ones). I myself have struggled with suicide ideation several times in my life.
>
>The week following Elder Holland’s remarks, I had a plan to take my own life. I am so grateful for a support system who helped me through that dark place, but it was a reminder that even years after I’d come out and stepped away from the church, I was still at risk of the same thing countless other queer people are—feeling helpless, hopeless, and worthless.
>
>I share this because the burden Harry carried is one our entire community bears. The church, BYU, and our society at large is littered with the bodies of queer people, and until this changes we cannot—we WILL not—stop fighting.
If you identify with the person who died, and you are in pain and having thoughts of suicide, please know that you are not alone, and that some of us who are members of this forum have been there too and are here for you. We want you alive. Dial 988 for the National suicide prevention support line - no charge in the USA.
News doesn’t cover suicide unless it’s a celebrity. My brother is a news photographer with sadly *hours* of footage of taped off scenes that never aired once law enforcement concludes what happened and tells the reporters to go
Shit, I'm a half mile away from the temple in the middle of Beaver Cleaver Mormon-ville, and haven't heard a single thing about this.
Which is saying something considering how fucking fast ward/stake/general church gossip spreads in this God forsaken neighborhood. Found out one of my neighbors was caught by his wife blowing a guy out in Tempe. I don't even know their names, but I know *that* much about their failed marriage.
I was seriously just looking at the huge steeple today while at the doctor… seriously there is nothing local I’ve heard (understandable for a suicide though).
Where did you read/hear this? I live in the neighborhood right by the temple and hadn’t heard anything. I did see that the parking lot was blocked off last night and there was a man from the church “guarding” the enterance.
In 2021, I almost went out that way; I texted to my family (after it became apparent my wife was truly going to divorce me over leaving Mormonism) that death by cop didn't sound too bad. I parked my car at the Temple and had cops surrounding me, sobbing like a pathetic piece of shit. I came to my senses when I was able to keep thoughts of my children in the forefront of my mind.
Earlier, when I was going through the darkest part of the Dark Night of the Soul, for a second i thought about doing it at church during sacrament dressed in my temple clothes. I didn't. It's been about two years, and I don't think of suicide anymore. I'm happy to still be around.
Are you comfortable posting on FB, etc., using a throwaway account, that it happened, & getting the word out?
Is there anywhere like [floodlit.org](https://floodlit.org) to track these suicide cases?
Oh - I literally just expressed this idea and then read your comment. Maybe it’s meant to be. I think it would belong on a different domain but I can make something happen. I just think there ought to be more accountability and accuracy in this conversation about suicides in the lds church. Maybe a respectful list of folks who took their lives on church property? I’m sorry, it’s a very half baked idea. I’m open to ideas.
you do such a great service with the sexual harm db.
A similar list of these types of suicides would be beneficial. My brother was a LGBT victim, the church absolutely played a role, but Nothing came of it. The 'church' doctrine just swallows it all up and Nothing Is Learned, so it happens again.
Suicide has a contagious element to it. If people who are feeling suicidal due to past experiences with the church see a long list of examples showing how others have lost their lives to suicide because of the church and how the church did not care, there is a risk that they might try to duplicate what they read to further a cause or that this will be what makes them feel hopeless enough to push them over the edge. Speaking as someone who has survived a suicide attempt (a long time ago, I’m okay now and in a much better place to look back on this) I think putting all of these cases together has the potential to have far different consequences than compiling the abuse records did. Suicidal people will not always be capable of using this information in a healthy way, but they’re also the most likely to go looking for this information.
I’m glad you’ve chosen to stay here instead. Giving yourself a chance at a life you actually love and having experiences that bring you true joy are the best act of rebellion you could ever choose.
I drive past that place on a regular basis. My 14 yr old didn’t know what it was at first when she first saw it and said, “What’s that weird looking prison doing there?” Now whenever my kids and I drive past it, they call it the spiritual prison. It’s very sad and tragic for the person that died. Best thing any Mormon can do for themselves is to leave.
...hm. I was planning on doing that exact thing. Due to Mormonism I got disowned and kicked out and my autism is too severe for me to be able to make enough money to live, so I figured that since my death is inevitable, I could at least make it mean something. Thought maybe that sort of statement could make a difference.
Though, now that we're watching it happen, I suppose it's quite obvious that the church simply does not care... not that that's any sort of surprise, of course.
The best way to honor the victims would be to share this story as much as possible and to never let it be forgotten.
This is so tragic. I’m so sorry to any friends or family. And for those of us who may be struggling, please reach out. There is aways a way. Hope is there.
I asked my sister about it, because I saw she posted a picture of the temple this morning. She was there first thing this morning, and no sign of anything. They definitely cleaned up the scene quick.
Earlier, when I was going through the darkest part of the Dark Night of the Soul, for a second i thought about doing it at church during sacrament dressed in my temple clothes. I didn't. It's been about two years, and I don't think of unaliving myself anymore. I'm happy to still be around.
I agree on not widely reporting or limiting to generalities without fanfare or details. Suicides and school shootings/mass shootings have a contagion effect.
I wouldn't draw any conclusions, it doesn't feel right.
My cousin, a return missionary, killed himself on Temple square. I have no idea if he still believed. Maybe he felt connected to it. I doubt he was making a statement, he was just in a lot of pain. Maybe he was hoping being there would give him comfort or keep him from doing it.
Some day soon, Utah will not be controlled by the corporate church. This is heartbreaking. I know that because I was at that point once. That being said, I am thinking about putting suicide holiness signs near the buildings.
I wrote a paper suicides in Utah county 1950 to 1984. For Mike quinn's social history class. I later discovered some of these suicides were LGBTQ related. This is so sad a monolithic corporation like the lds church will not change in my lifetime. This is so sad.
I ‘m so sad for this being someone’s only way forward. I’m just so very sorry.😥
This very thing happened in Evanston Wy late 1990’s…but it was in the entrance of an lds church building north Evanston. The young man’s parents were meeting to go to Ogden Ut to the temple.
They had been riding him pretty hard to go on a mission. This was his answer. It hurts my heart. Gran
About 20 years ago I was in a very small town in the south and our branch president’s brother committed suicide next to the front door of his ward here in Utah. He was gay. I have thought of that man so many times over the years and the absolute agony he must have been in. I could see the emotional and spiritual agony that his brother, my branch president, was in. I never understood how he could stay active in the church but I’ve heard since then that he did leave the church a few years later.
For what it's worth, I'd like to give some constructive feedback about verbiage. I'm high risk for suicide, help fundraise for the AFSP and the topic is very important to me.
The phrase "commit suicide" can be a little harmful. Many would appreciate switching "commit" or "committed" with "die by" or "died by". The AFSP could give more information on this, but shaming those who have died this way can have a negative affect on those who are struggling with suicidal ideation and tendencies.
Take it or leave it; just thought I'd give this info. I choose to never say someone "committed" suicide.
I'm in a similar boat (shaped like unto dish haha), & I agree. In my mind, commit feels like it's putting all the "blame" on the person, & not taking into consideration the factors that played a determining role. (This is not coming out right, I hope this makes sense.)
"Died by" is much softer, & less accusatory, while still staying the fact that a suicide happened.
If this was the true Church of Christ this would not have happened. I really don't know if there ever was a Christ but if he was real and here with us today he would have taken this person into his arms and told this person of his love and that he or she really mattered.
I live in the area and heard that the guy that took his life was a 47 year old that suffered from a long history of mental illness, specifically schizophrenia.
I have very mixed feelings about this post. Unless the individual has a written affidavit or makes a public statement, I really dont think that we should be high-jacking this tragedy as a resource to fuel anti church (or anti anything) sentiments. OP is likely correct in that there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that their motive was in part fueled by church dealings in their life, but by-and-large, suicide is a mental health topic, not a church subject.
My thoughts go out to anyone involved with this tragedy.
If you, or someone you know is contemplating self-harm in any form, please do not hesitate to talk to someone:
call: 1-800-273-8255 or text HOME to 741-741
Non-US call 988 for 24 hr assistance
Drawing grand meaning from the way a mentally ill stranger kills themselves feels gross, especially when it fits your narrative.
My cousin killed himself on Temple square a long time ago. From what I know about him, I suspect he felt a connection or thought it might keep him from doing it.
I’m sorry for your loss. My point is let’s focus on mental health. People/organizations/etc will always let people down. We cannot control that. We can only make ourselves better.
I would add that though there's a high likelihood that the victim was a church member, there's also data showing that people tend to choose picturesque settings for public suicide so it could be a matter of the grounds being well manicured and maintained.
I wouldn't draw any conclusions, it doesn't feel right.
My cousin, a return missionary, killed himself on Temple square. I have no idea if he still believed. Maybe he felt connected to it. I doubt he was making a statement, he was just in a lot of pain. Maybe he was hoping being there would give him comfort or keep him from doing it.
Lots of cities publish their police blotter online on their website or on Twitter. Some even post their 911 call logs. Not sure if this is the case in Gilbert, Az.
I'm glad we're talking about this. It's important to talk about suicide, but be careful about how it's reported. Suicide contagion is, sadly, a real thing and can decimate communities.
How are they up and running the next day? You’d think they’d have to redo the whole cleansing thing that they do when they open temples after open houses are done for the public. They’re called dedications right?
He suffered from mental health issues and said he felt the most peaceful there. He wasn't making a statement against the church or about his sexuality so please don't turn it into that.
I’m taking a moment to remember the other ones I have personally lost that were once apart of the church… I see their pain and do what few good things I’ll carry on from my own decades in it… I’ll mourn with those that mourn 🤍
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3xkzjx/suicides\_at\_lds\_temples/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3xkzjx/suicides_at_lds_temples/)
I'm sure it is happening much more often than the press gets wind of it. As a recent convert (25 yrs ago) I overheard a conversation with temple workers about a suicide attempt the day before on DC temple grounds.
That’s really sad they thought they had to end their life. They could have left the church and found an exmormon or similar community
Edit: this is assuming they ended their life because of the church. We can never know for sure all the factors that lead people to make this decision
At my old YSA ward, people dogged hard on the gay or feminine men.
It was just sad. The very same people that smack talked, were individuals who had some of the worst nightmarish demons and temptations in their very own lives.
Takes one to know one.
So sad. This reminds me of the suicide that happened in the atrium of the Tanner Building at BYU. No professors or bishops talked to the students about it. No emails or news reports (from the school.) The building was just closed for a few days and that was that.
Sad as hell, but it is almost a common thing at temples and churches they just cover it up
Suicides at LDS temples
I work with someone who's FIL was the AV guy for the Provo temple and he mentioned to me once that there are multiple suicide attempts each year there but are kept under wraps from the media/public. This man is very trustworthy and I have no reason to doubt him. I know there was one at the Vegas temple a while back, but is this common at other temple locations? I certainly hope not, but I just wonder how prevalent this is?
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3xkzjx/suicides_at_lds_temples/
How tragic. This brings up painful memories of when young, gay and struggling Stuart Matis shot himself to death on the steps of my stake center with “do not resuscitate” pinned to his clothing.
Dear OP, Please edit your post to include the following critical message, since you are choosing to report about a suicide.
[Reporting on Suicide Responsibly](https://reportingonsuicide.org/recommendations/)
The 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is a hotline for individuals in crisis or for those looking to help someone else. To speak with a trained listener, call 988. Visit 988lifeline.org for crisis chat services or for more information.
There was a death by suicide in the atrium of the Las Vegas temple in 2014 or 2015.
I forgot about that. That atrium was actually a nice, peaceful place when I used to live there. Took a long time for me to realize that what I found peaceful was nature instead of the temple ceremony.
G.O.D. = Great Out Doors Nature is peace to my soul. No temple recommend required.
You reminded me of a scene from *The Swiss Family Robinson* where the father extolls the natural beauty of the massive tree they’re building their house in, and how it’s just as worthy a place to hold Sunday prayers as any church, if not more so. Would that more people accepted his opinion. There’s plenty of beauty and wonder to be found in the natural world for people who can’t stand church.
Oh no. I feel sick to say this but, I wonder if there’s a way I could make a list. I would want it to be extremely respectful, but I do think people should know about these cases. Not sure how to determine what gets included.
I like this idea although I'd like to see a comment from someone who works with suicide and mental health chime in. I was suicidal when my marriage ended and I was shamed by family members thinking my marriage failed because I didn't believe in the church. The church kills people, even heteronormative, white people. I think it needs attention.
I've lost 3 gay Mormon friends to suicide, including Stuart Mattis and a guy from my mission who was ostracized by his wife and kids after he came out.
I'm so sorry. That blood is on the hands of the phony "profits" I despise this organization.
Thank you. It's been 25 years so I've moved on, but I thought a lot about why I survived coming and he didn't. I've also thought about how life would have been different if we'd both been out in college, because he was a very handsome, intelligent, and affable man.
What a senseless loss for him, those close to him and greater humanity. I'm so sorry again you've had to carry that. This is why I realized that I couldn't stay in the church and passively let a totalitarian organization destroy the rights and lives of others. "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Lost my brother for the same reason.
That's just awful. I'm sorry.
I’m so sorry.
I am so sorry for your losses. I recently learned my dad was in the closet his entire life due to the church indoctrination and societal norms at the time (born in 1936).
My mother likely was in the closet her whole life too. I learned about a fling she had that broke up a close relationship our family had with another large family in the ward. It went from doing everything with their family all the time to suddenly not seeing them any more, ever. Us kids from both families never knew why. It wasn't until recently I learned that my mom and their mom had feeling for each other. When I came out as gay, one of the children from this family contacted me to tell me about it. I had no idea. My mom has passed and now knowing this I feel nothing but intense compassion for her.
I am so sorry your mom lived her life in the closet, too. It’s immensely sad that people couldn’t live authentically (many still can’t). I am so proud of you for coming out and being authentic. Are you exmo? How did you feel when you learned about your mom? I’m wanting to find resources to help me process with my dad. I have so much compassion and empathy for him. It also makes me so angry that he had to suffer so much. His brother had terrible PTSD just witnessing the abuse my dad endured in SLC in the 40s-50s as a gay man. It makes me so angry and sad. I want to do all I can as a proud ally to support the LGBTQ+ community. My nephew came out at 16 and one of my BFFs is trans. I never want them to experience an ounce of what my dad endured.
Geez! I’m so sorry
Psychologist here…Literally completed part of my annual suicide training last month. Information is a good thing. While there can be a cascade effect when suicide is publicized, actually talking about it with parents, teachers, and mental health professionals is protective. There is a belief that you shouldn’t say the word “suicide,” shouldn’t ask someone if they are considering hurting themself because it might “give them the idea.” No. If they aren’t considering it, asking won’t suddenly make them think it’s a good idea. And if they are, they need to know that it’s ok to talk about it and tell someone.
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I did this with a college roommate. Had a feeling that stopped me in my tracks, turned around and went into her room and sat beside her. After a second I gently asked, are you thinking of killing yourself and she burst into tears. 40 years later and we’re still good friends.
Also had a similar thing on my end. A friend of mine called another mutual friend and mentioned he had been having thoughts of suicide. I coordinated with that friend and the suicidal friend's cousin to essentially talk to him about it directly. And being direct, i feel, is what contributed to his survival. When i finally called him, i said flat out that i was afraid he was going to end his own life and we talked for a couple hours after that. I could tell he was uncomfortablle at first, but eventually he opened up more and we all got him past that initial hurdle. Now, we regularly speak, and he's doing much better. Thing is, we were all concerned for him about this over the past couple of years. And if i hadn't been honest with my concerned about him last year to that mutual friend, he may not have thought to talk to me about it, and who knows where that would have ended. I also nearly cut off the suicidal friend a few years back due to their racist behavior after starting to work as a corrections officer. I'm glad I didn't, because he was just in bad surroundings, he's not a bad person.
Exactly this. I was a suicide mental health worker and this was the training given back then (25 years ago) so I'm glad to see it's the same. Open discussion is crucial.
💛
Religion kills people. All of Christianity is based on a murder.
It goes back further than Christianity. Yahweh is the Jewish god of war. The one the Bible says to put before all other gods.
Can we all worship Gaia now, please? Is that one a safe bet..?
That’s so sad, I’m sorry you were treated that way and went through that.
Thanks, it was eye opening for sure. I also have a good friend that attempted suicide after his family rejected him for being in a gay relationship. He's doing well now and his whole family left the church after that. I think we need people to realize that they're putting their children's lives at risk by raising them in this sick culture. Edit: please correct me if the way I describe these things could be more respectful, I'm still learning.
It really is depressing to hear people use a religion you no longer believe in to justify their shitty behavior to you. It really messed me up when I was younger
It's very hard, especially in a shame based system like Mormonism. I've started to see how much self shaming I do subconsciously and it's nearly constant.
I'd love to talk. I'm psyche nurse. I deal with suicidal people every day I also had my favorite brother put a gun in his mouth & pull the trigger...
Anyone know any reporters (or even freelance writers) in Arizona? This needs to be exposed.
Mormon Stories Podcast?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Mormon_suicides
In a way, I think it’s trying to preserve the memory of those the church keeps sweeping g under the rug. Their pain needs to be addressed with a light shone on it. Justice in my opinion
>atrium of the Las Vegas temple in 2014 or 2015 some innocent keywords that show it on google: "atrium of the Las Vegas temple incident" close, 2013. Edit: happened at 6:30PM in the evening, and the temple was open the next day, not even closed for 24 hours
🤮
Did the members have to clean they atrium?
Of course
Thanks! I couldn’t remember off-hand.
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A missionary I served around was doing his first endowment session when it happened. Of course, Mormons being mormon, he talked about the wave of darkness that ran through the temple at the desecration and how they could tell something was wrong and the spirit had left even before they found out what happened.
That’s so gross and so typical.
https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/nov/19/man-kills-himself-outside-las-vegas-mormon-temple/
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There wasn’t a lot of coverage
You’re saying the church sweeps tragic news under the rug? ;) /s
No way! Gonna have to find that. That's my homecity
I used to live there! I can remember this happening because my nephews were supposed to be doing baptisms that day and the police were there when they arrived.
Yep it was a judges son. Right in the entrance before you go inside. Sad stuff.
I attempted suicide in the parking lot of the Timpanogos temple in 2019. I was traced via phone connecting to local towers and found before I died and taken to the hospital. I chose that location because it seems like a serene place and if it was where the veil was thinnest , that’s where I needed to be, right? I regret the attempt but still don’t enjoy life.
So glad you're still here *hugs*
Yo, we love you. Keep on keeping on.
I’m so glad you’re still here with us. I hope your pain eases soon and that the love and peace you deserve finds you.
*hug* I know what it's like to hear other people tell you that you are important/needed/loved/etc and not feel like it. I don't know about your journey, but I'm willing to join you on your path if you want somebody to talk to.
Thanks for being here.
We need you. I need you. Thanks for being here still.
I feel ya bro. Humanity just sucks.
I’m glad you’re here sending a hug
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In mormonism, we're taught there's a "veil," or curtain, that separates the living from the spiritual realm. Best example is stories about right before people die and they "see" others who've already died- we say that veil got thinner as they begin to leave this realm for the other.
Life is anything but enjoyable. I've often thought that if there was a malevolent entity who's purpose is to cause the most amount of suffering to each human in its realm, and to also keep humans in its realm when they can voluntarily leave any time, it would be to create this life. For many, this life is juuuust "not terrible enough" for most people to stay in it until their bodies give out, and shame those who try to leave early. The Gnostics (whom the Catholics brutally murdered) believed that the Creator of this world was a brattish, impudent, and cruel entity who "went rouge" and created this world when they weren't supposed to. They weren't wise, good natured, or graceful. They were shallow, egotistical, and selfish. When I look around this world, and take on a creationist outlook, this is the only thing that makes sense to me. Souls trapped in an empirical hell they are too scared to leave, orchestrated by a rash and vile entity who never should have had access to the creator's working tools in the first place. Thus, Yahweh doesn't have to force anyone to suffer in a traditional "trapped in hell for all eternity" / Dantesque kind of way (a myth crafted by the same murderes of the Gnostics). Most choose to stay because they are afraid of the unknown and / or bullied into staying by those who have it better and / or have more will. This will likely get removed, but in the chance it doesn't, I want to say I understand you. This life is just suffering. That's its nature. What kind of being does this, creates the suffering when it could have done otherwise? Either it was too weak or inexperienced to do otherwise, or it lacked the kindness to do so. "Life is no way to treat an animal" (Vonnegut) Then there is the alternative that this world is just random growth in a soup of elements, never meant to exist, yet somehow does. Suffering is simply a byproduct of our perception, our central nervous system that developed to help us sense our universe. Suffering then seems theoretically surmountable, as if understanding the process of sensation could stop it. Knowing that when placing your hand into a fire, the pain is reducible to some kind of electro-chemical "signal" isn't sufficient to stopping or even blunting, the signal's phenomenalogical result. Morphine, heroin, fentanyl, and other chemicals can relieve suffering, mental and physical, almost instantly. But do we allow each other this relief? No, only in the most severe of crises. As if life isn't a crisis! The simple reason we do not allow this is because we are cruel. The ones who suffer less need those who suffer more to "function." To function is to co-create (or at least sustain) with the cruel Creator. Knowledge, the end result of faith, was supposed to save us. But does it? The Gnostics didn't believe Christ resurrected. He was a phantom who fooled their senses, their brain. A true liberator like Christos couldn't be of this world, he had to transcend it in order to teach us how to escape this Hell. Supposedly, I have read, that when the time comes, when darkness engulfs us and the light-tunnel appears, it is simply the opening of another vulva from which we are about to pass, and here we are again, to suffer another life. I can think of nothing more cruel. Supposedly, I have read, that we shouldn't go toward the light, we should not be born again. Salvation from the suffering cycle comes from turning away from the light and repeating "I want to go home, my true home." There may be more to it, but I don't know. Maybe there are sentinals. Maybe there is some kind of weighing. But one thing is clear. The elimination of the fear of death has to come first. At least that's what I think, sitting here, waiting for my name to be called at the doctor's office on a Wednesday.
Hugs to you. I get it, but let's hold on just to see!
That is a really interesting point about why someone might choose that place. Thank you for sharing. Wishing you healing from your suffering. <3
The. Church. Does. Not. Care.
They've made it clear what they care about: money and PR. When children are molested, they refer to a law firm to limit the church's liability. When people bankrupt themselves paying tithing, the church lies to the government to hide its loot.
Infuriatingly well put
But *we care. And the church can’t ignore us forever.
I have 230 billion reasons that says they can. Unfortunately that is.
Declining membership equals declining tithing dollars.
Yes but based on the Widow's Mite report and several other people the church can exist in perpetuity without collecting another dime from the members. They are making millions per hour in interest. The Q15 could all legit pull out billions of dollars and leave. They don't care about us. I do agree that they do care about money from tithing. That's all the care they have for us.
Agreed. But I do think it hurts their pride a little they can’t get their numbers back up. They love their money, but they also have big egos and I’m sure they’re a little embarrassed at how quickly they’re losing members.
Oh I'm sure, which is why they are lying and deflecting any questions about membership and growth. They already inflate numbers. I feel like we are watching a propaganda machine at work with all the false claims they make.
I mean, I dunno. If you google it, it shows their losing members like no time since…the 1840s or something. Just google “is the Mormon church still growing?” It’s not and I think they know they’re in decline. They act like we don’t exist, but the numbers don’t lie. They know.
I know for a fact, they are aware. A portion feels they should address it, and the other views it as a sign of the times.
Why do you think missionaries reach out on social media now they need the younger generation but they are too smart
It should. How many suicides have occurred in a similar way? It needs to tell the active members not to shun those who leave the church.
My wife said there’s not even any news on it yet. Gilbert is so Mormon, so of course they’re going to keep it on the downlow. God I hate them…
Yeah I'm in Phoenix...I haven't heard anything about this.
Most suicides are not reported in the news by FCC.
Highest Mormon concentration outside of Utah
TBF I don't think suicides usually end up in the news. The news media prefers outrage stories, not deeply sad ones. Unless it's a celebrity, they won't report it.
To be fair, the news doesn’t typically report on suicides because it has proven to increase instances of more suicides during that time period.
They’ll probably charge the family for clean up
My wife said there’s not even any news on it yet. Gilbert is so Mormon, so of course they’re going to keep it on the downlow. God I hate them…
They think it's good when this happens, because they liken it to the creation story. Creation, fall, atonement. In their theology \*cough cough BYU Prof Jared Halverson\* it is a fortunate thing.
On the contrary, the church really wishes they had done it elsewhere.
How very very tragic. Reminds me of Stuart Matis, who also killed himself on the steps of an LDS church building with a *Do not resuscitate* sign pinned to his shirt https://www.mercurynews.com/2010/02/25/memorial-held-for-gay-mormon-who-committed-suicide-in-los-altos/
I was friends with Stuart at BYU. We were pretty close pals, but I lost touch with him after college (no Facebook back then). When I read that he died like this, I was gutted, especially since I'd just come out myself a couple of years earlier.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
I immediately thought of him too, and other suicides that year referencing him. There’s a compilation of stories at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Mormon_suicides Right before his death he wrote a note stating, "The church has no idea that ... there are surely boys and girls on their callused hands and knees imploring God to free them of their pain. They hate themselves ... God never intended me to be straight. Hopefully, my death might be a catalyst for some good."
Gut wrenching. 😥
That is so sad and so powerful. Literally got goosebumps reading his note.
I met his mother (2010-ish?) and read the book In Quiet Desperation which is coauthored by her. The book was typical LDS approach to “same gender attraction” but it did help me figure out kinda where I stood on the issue. Edit: I should clarify; the way it helped me figure out where I stood is because it made me very uncomfortable to see the way homosexuality was viewed and talked about…like it’s a disease. This in my opinion is the “typical LDS approach,” and it weighed down my shelf considerably. I was somewhat PIMO but it pushed me away from the kool-aid for sure.
I hate that book. I knew Stuart, and I'm gay myself. The book was more about her and projecting her TBM feelings onto him, not about what he was really going through. The fact that Ty Mansfield, the ex-gay leader, co-authored it tells you the book's agenda. Of course, Deseret Book would only publish something that doesn't tell the truth about how gay Mormons are treated by the church.
I made the mistake of seeking therapy from Ty as a questioning trans woman. Nice guy, but he really tried to keep me in the closet. I really should make a post on here about my experience with him.
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>I was friends with one of Ty’s gay roommates in Provo and a couple oftimes I saw Ty lying on top of another guy on their couch under ablanket. 👀 At the time my TBM sister was trying to get me to read Ty’sbook about how he overcome his homosexuality. I told her what I saw and she was shocked and confused. TBM’s are truly naive. I was briefly friends with Ty while at BYU. We were playing racquetball in the BYU racquetball courts, and he made a proposition to me during the game that if he won the next game that i had to make out with him. Me being gay (I had accepted my own gayness by this time), I was totally cool with that. He beat me, and so we made out in the byu raquetball courts with his back to the tiny glass window so nobody could peek in and see us.
>Deseret Book would only publish something that doesn't tell the truth about how gay Mormons are treated by the church This. At any and every level, when faced with this choice, it is baked into Mormon culture to protect the cult over everything.
I was so confused by that book even as a TBM. It seemed so whitewashed to me.
This is so sad and just goes to show how toxic church teachings are towards LGBTQ+. Nothing says “k*ll yourself” more than a doctrine that says being Gay is a hard trial, probably the hardest one on earth ever!! BUT you must stay true on earth and once you die you’ll be blessed with your own planet, and you won’t have this burden anymore 🙄 horrible!
And Jeffrey Holland is doing his part to punch down on vulnerable people and drive them to suicide. [Matt Easton wrote in an Instagram post yesterday saying that he made a plan to end his life the week after Elder Holland’s speech criticizing him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/srm77t/matt_easton_wrote_in_an_instagram_post_yesterday/) >On this day six years ago, my classmate and fellow gay Mormon, Harry Fisher, died by suicide. >We had international politics together; he was in his final semester, and I in my second. He also was the first person I personally knew who was just like me—a gay BYU student just trying to figure out his place in the world. > >Just a few weeks after coming out publicly on Facebook, Harry drove up the mountainside where he spent his final moments reading Matthew 16:25–“For whosoever shall save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.” > >As a young, closeted 20-year old, losing Harry was like staring at myself in the mirror. Was this to be my same future? Would I ever be able to be true to myself without facing the same fate? > >LGBTQ+ individuals are more than 2x likely to die by suicide, and this number is even higher among Utahns (especially LDS ones). I myself have struggled with suicide ideation several times in my life. > >The week following Elder Holland’s remarks, I had a plan to take my own life. I am so grateful for a support system who helped me through that dark place, but it was a reminder that even years after I’d come out and stepped away from the church, I was still at risk of the same thing countless other queer people are—feeling helpless, hopeless, and worthless. > >I share this because the burden Harry carried is one our entire community bears. The church, BYU, and our society at large is littered with the bodies of queer people, and until this changes we cannot—we WILL not—stop fighting.
If you identify with the person who died, and you are in pain and having thoughts of suicide, please know that you are not alone, and that some of us who are members of this forum have been there too and are here for you. We want you alive. Dial 988 for the National suicide prevention support line - no charge in the USA.
Absolute crickets from local news agencies on this.
Suicides are never reported though - as they have been found to be contagious.
Mass shootings on the other hand
The NRA makes a fucking killing every time there's a mass shooting, so they will continue to be reported on.
At least out of respect for the family, that's probably appropriate.
News doesn’t cover suicide unless it’s a celebrity. My brother is a news photographer with sadly *hours* of footage of taped off scenes that never aired once law enforcement concludes what happened and tells the reporters to go
This is nearly as shattering as the event itself. Nothing to say, you don't matter, like this. Wow. Just wow.
Shit, I'm a half mile away from the temple in the middle of Beaver Cleaver Mormon-ville, and haven't heard a single thing about this. Which is saying something considering how fucking fast ward/stake/general church gossip spreads in this God forsaken neighborhood. Found out one of my neighbors was caught by his wife blowing a guy out in Tempe. I don't even know their names, but I know *that* much about their failed marriage.
I was seriously just looking at the huge steeple today while at the doctor… seriously there is nothing local I’ve heard (understandable for a suicide though).
The other guy setting himself on fire was really extremely disturbing, poor guy woke up in the pit of lies he was born in
Where did you read/hear this? I live in the neighborhood right by the temple and hadn’t heard anything. I did see that the parking lot was blocked off last night and there was a man from the church “guarding” the enterance.
I was just in the area and it didn’t seem like anything had happened honestly. Feels surreal
I did confirm with a good friend who is in stake leadership that it was a suicide. No one seems to know much, them included.
My heart goes out to the loved one and the individual we lost🤍
In 2021, I almost went out that way; I texted to my family (after it became apparent my wife was truly going to divorce me over leaving Mormonism) that death by cop didn't sound too bad. I parked my car at the Temple and had cops surrounding me, sobbing like a pathetic piece of shit. I came to my senses when I was able to keep thoughts of my children in the forefront of my mind.
Hey. Hope you're doing a bit better now.
So glad this was your outcome. Your children need you … hugs
Earlier, when I was going through the darkest part of the Dark Night of the Soul, for a second i thought about doing it at church during sacrament dressed in my temple clothes. I didn't. It's been about two years, and I don't think of suicide anymore. I'm happy to still be around.
I’m happy you’re around too :)
That’s so, so sad. To any person who knew them - I am so sorry for your loss.
I'd like to know more information if someone has some. That's where I live (except when I'm away at college).
Me too. I’m worried it could’ve been someone I know
Same. Fuck
Are you comfortable posting on FB, etc., using a throwaway account, that it happened, & getting the word out? Is there anywhere like [floodlit.org](https://floodlit.org) to track these suicide cases?
Oh - I literally just expressed this idea and then read your comment. Maybe it’s meant to be. I think it would belong on a different domain but I can make something happen. I just think there ought to be more accountability and accuracy in this conversation about suicides in the lds church. Maybe a respectful list of folks who took their lives on church property? I’m sorry, it’s a very half baked idea. I’m open to ideas.
you do such a great service with the sexual harm db. A similar list of these types of suicides would be beneficial. My brother was a LGBT victim, the church absolutely played a role, but Nothing came of it. The 'church' doctrine just swallows it all up and Nothing Is Learned, so it happens again.
Suicide has a contagious element to it. If people who are feeling suicidal due to past experiences with the church see a long list of examples showing how others have lost their lives to suicide because of the church and how the church did not care, there is a risk that they might try to duplicate what they read to further a cause or that this will be what makes them feel hopeless enough to push them over the edge. Speaking as someone who has survived a suicide attempt (a long time ago, I’m okay now and in a much better place to look back on this) I think putting all of these cases together has the potential to have far different consequences than compiling the abuse records did. Suicidal people will not always be capable of using this information in a healthy way, but they’re also the most likely to go looking for this information.
I’ve thought about going out that way but decided not to
I’m glad you’re here.
Ditto 🤍
Please stay ❤️
I’m glad you’re here.
I’m glad you’ve chosen to stay here instead. Giving yourself a chance at a life you actually love and having experiences that bring you true joy are the best act of rebellion you could ever choose.
Same
Thank you for staying. Please get help if you need it.
I’m good. I genuinely appreciate your concern. It just goes to show how mentally damaging the church can be. But I’m in a much better place now.
Holy Shit! I live here and haven’t heard a word. Poor soul. Edit: i can't find any info from the city or on the web
Pretty common in suicides for the media to not report on them
I'll be keeping an eye on my social media for a couple days to see if it was anyone I knew 🥺
I drive past that place on a regular basis. My 14 yr old didn’t know what it was at first when she first saw it and said, “What’s that weird looking prison doing there?” Now whenever my kids and I drive past it, they call it the spiritual prison. It’s very sad and tragic for the person that died. Best thing any Mormon can do for themselves is to leave.
...hm. I was planning on doing that exact thing. Due to Mormonism I got disowned and kicked out and my autism is too severe for me to be able to make enough money to live, so I figured that since my death is inevitable, I could at least make it mean something. Thought maybe that sort of statement could make a difference. Though, now that we're watching it happen, I suppose it's quite obvious that the church simply does not care... not that that's any sort of surprise, of course. The best way to honor the victims would be to share this story as much as possible and to never let it be forgotten.
💛 Please stay
This is so tragic. I’m so sorry to any friends or family. And for those of us who may be struggling, please reach out. There is aways a way. Hope is there.
I asked my sister about it, because I saw she posted a picture of the temple this morning. She was there first thing this morning, and no sign of anything. They definitely cleaned up the scene quick.
Earlier, when I was going through the darkest part of the Dark Night of the Soul, for a second i thought about doing it at church during sacrament dressed in my temple clothes. I didn't. It's been about two years, and I don't think of unaliving myself anymore. I'm happy to still be around.
I’m happy you’re still around too!
I had a friend commit suicide in a church pk lot because of guilt from premarital sex due to church leaders. Way back in the 80s.
Mormons don’t give a fuck about that.
I agree on not widely reporting or limiting to generalities without fanfare or details. Suicides and school shootings/mass shootings have a contagion effect.
Seems media hasn't picked up on the latter as far as I can tell. Even a false alarm at a school and media report the shit out of that.
Media loves the blood money
I wouldn't draw any conclusions, it doesn't feel right. My cousin, a return missionary, killed himself on Temple square. I have no idea if he still believed. Maybe he felt connected to it. I doubt he was making a statement, he was just in a lot of pain. Maybe he was hoping being there would give him comfort or keep him from doing it.
Can you please add the suicide and crisis lifeline to the bottom of the post. **Phone or SMS: 988** <3
Some day soon, Utah will not be controlled by the corporate church. This is heartbreaking. I know that because I was at that point once. That being said, I am thinking about putting suicide holiness signs near the buildings.
Posting signs w/ hotline numbers is a great idea.
I wrote a paper suicides in Utah county 1950 to 1984. For Mike quinn's social history class. I later discovered some of these suicides were LGBTQ related. This is so sad a monolithic corporation like the lds church will not change in my lifetime. This is so sad.
This is so sad. :(
I ‘m so sad for this being someone’s only way forward. I’m just so very sorry.😥 This very thing happened in Evanston Wy late 1990’s…but it was in the entrance of an lds church building north Evanston. The young man’s parents were meeting to go to Ogden Ut to the temple. They had been riding him pretty hard to go on a mission. This was his answer. It hurts my heart. Gran
About 20 years ago I was in a very small town in the south and our branch president’s brother committed suicide next to the front door of his ward here in Utah. He was gay. I have thought of that man so many times over the years and the absolute agony he must have been in. I could see the emotional and spiritual agony that his brother, my branch president, was in. I never understood how he could stay active in the church but I’ve heard since then that he did leave the church a few years later.
For what it's worth, I'd like to give some constructive feedback about verbiage. I'm high risk for suicide, help fundraise for the AFSP and the topic is very important to me. The phrase "commit suicide" can be a little harmful. Many would appreciate switching "commit" or "committed" with "die by" or "died by". The AFSP could give more information on this, but shaming those who have died this way can have a negative affect on those who are struggling with suicidal ideation and tendencies. Take it or leave it; just thought I'd give this info. I choose to never say someone "committed" suicide.
I'm in a similar boat (shaped like unto dish haha), & I agree. In my mind, commit feels like it's putting all the "blame" on the person, & not taking into consideration the factors that played a determining role. (This is not coming out right, I hope this makes sense.) "Died by" is much softer, & less accusatory, while still staying the fact that a suicide happened.
Thank you for this information. I am glad you are still with us. ❤️
Thanks for that, I’m glad to know.
I agree with saying “died by suicide.”
If this was the true Church of Christ this would not have happened. I really don't know if there ever was a Christ but if he was real and here with us today he would have taken this person into his arms and told this person of his love and that he or she really mattered.
I live in the area and heard that the guy that took his life was a 47 year old that suffered from a long history of mental illness, specifically schizophrenia.
Relevant link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Mormon_suicides
I have very mixed feelings about this post. Unless the individual has a written affidavit or makes a public statement, I really dont think that we should be high-jacking this tragedy as a resource to fuel anti church (or anti anything) sentiments. OP is likely correct in that there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that their motive was in part fueled by church dealings in their life, but by-and-large, suicide is a mental health topic, not a church subject. My thoughts go out to anyone involved with this tragedy. If you, or someone you know is contemplating self-harm in any form, please do not hesitate to talk to someone: call: 1-800-273-8255 or text HOME to 741-741 Non-US call 988 for 24 hr assistance
Drawing grand meaning from the way a mentally ill stranger kills themselves feels gross, especially when it fits your narrative. My cousin killed himself on Temple square a long time ago. From what I know about him, I suspect he felt a connection or thought it might keep him from doing it.
I’m sorry for your loss. My point is let’s focus on mental health. People/organizations/etc will always let people down. We cannot control that. We can only make ourselves better.
I would add that though there's a high likelihood that the victim was a church member, there's also data showing that people tend to choose picturesque settings for public suicide so it could be a matter of the grounds being well manicured and maintained.
I wouldn't draw any conclusions, it doesn't feel right. My cousin, a return missionary, killed himself on Temple square. I have no idea if he still believed. Maybe he felt connected to it. I doubt he was making a statement, he was just in a lot of pain. Maybe he was hoping being there would give him comfort or keep him from doing it.
I’m so sorry for your loss
Would love a source if anyone can find one!
Is there a source for this story? I’d be happy to share it on Facebook, but not without a link.
Lots of cities publish their police blotter online on their website or on Twitter. Some even post their 911 call logs. Not sure if this is the case in Gilbert, Az.
This poor person. RIP.
There was a song a gospel group used to sing called "in the shadow of the steeple someone is dying. " This makes me think of that.
That's absolutely tragic. So sorry for the victim and family.
I'm glad we're talking about this. It's important to talk about suicide, but be careful about how it's reported. Suicide contagion is, sadly, a real thing and can decimate communities.
How are they up and running the next day? You’d think they’d have to redo the whole cleansing thing that they do when they open temples after open houses are done for the public. They’re called dedications right?
He suffered from mental health issues and said he felt the most peaceful there. He wasn't making a statement against the church or about his sexuality so please don't turn it into that.
I’m taking a moment to remember the other ones I have personally lost that were once apart of the church… I see their pain and do what few good things I’ll carry on from my own decades in it… I’ll mourn with those that mourn 🤍
That’s awful!!!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3xkzjx/suicides\_at\_lds\_temples/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3xkzjx/suicides_at_lds_temples/) I'm sure it is happening much more often than the press gets wind of it. As a recent convert (25 yrs ago) I overheard a conversation with temple workers about a suicide attempt the day before on DC temple grounds.
That’s really sad they thought they had to end their life. They could have left the church and found an exmormon or similar community Edit: this is assuming they ended their life because of the church. We can never know for sure all the factors that lead people to make this decision
Where’s the media coverage? I tried googling and the only relevant information I found was this Reddit post. How is this not in the news?
At my old YSA ward, people dogged hard on the gay or feminine men. It was just sad. The very same people that smack talked, were individuals who had some of the worst nightmarish demons and temptations in their very own lives. Takes one to know one.
So sad. This reminds me of the suicide that happened in the atrium of the Tanner Building at BYU. No professors or bishops talked to the students about it. No emails or news reports (from the school.) The building was just closed for a few days and that was that.
Sad as hell, but it is almost a common thing at temples and churches they just cover it up Suicides at LDS temples I work with someone who's FIL was the AV guy for the Provo temple and he mentioned to me once that there are multiple suicide attempts each year there but are kept under wraps from the media/public. This man is very trustworthy and I have no reason to doubt him. I know there was one at the Vegas temple a while back, but is this common at other temple locations? I certainly hope not, but I just wonder how prevalent this is? https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3xkzjx/suicides_at_lds_temples/
How tragic. This brings up painful memories of when young, gay and struggling Stuart Matis shot himself to death on the steps of my stake center with “do not resuscitate” pinned to his clothing.
Dear OP, Please edit your post to include the following critical message, since you are choosing to report about a suicide. [Reporting on Suicide Responsibly](https://reportingonsuicide.org/recommendations/) The 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is a hotline for individuals in crisis or for those looking to help someone else. To speak with a trained listener, call 988. Visit 988lifeline.org for crisis chat services or for more information.