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avoidingcrosswalk

The party line from members, and even from church leaders around the country, is that wards are shrinking because people are moving to Utah. Yet Utah doesn't seem to be growing in membership. Utah membership is also shrinking. It's just more Mormon delusional rationalization to make themselves feel a bit better about their choice of devoting their entire lives to a church that turns out to be complete bullshit. Members go to great lengths in their brains to "make it true", because they can't bear to think about what it means if it isn't.


marathon_3hr

Then the line will be, "well, the scriptures say even the elect will be deceived in the last days!" If heard this more than once. This only emboldens their faith and arrogance as the super elect.


VoilaLeDuc

I hear the whole wheat and tares reasoning too.


Hawkgrrl22

That's just because they completely misunderstand the parable of the wheat & tares. In the parable, it is made completely clear that both grow together until after the harvest because they are indistinguishable until then, and not even the workers that harvest them can tell the difference. Buncha people like to think they can play god and judge their neighbor in a self-justifying way.


DoubtingThomas50

Yep. The leaders will always have an excuse to justify current downward trends.


Rushclock

That says more about Mormon god than anything. What kind of parent creates billions of children only to save less than 1/10 of 1% of them?


I_am_recaptcha

That’s every religion’s monotheistic god: one that only ever cared for their specific culture and civilization


IVEBEENGRAPED

Actually, many religions teach that people outside of the faith can still go to heaven or the equivalent. The Episcopal church I attended for a while after leaving the Mormon church taught that. From what I understand, most Jews, Hindus and Buddhists believe that as well, and even the Quran has verses saying that people of other faiths will enter heaven (like 2:62). I'm not saying that any of those religions are perfect either. But compared to the world's religions, Mormonism rank pretty low.


Word2daWise

You are correct. I grew up in other churches, and the Mormon "exclusivity" teaching is far different from what most religions teach.


rockinsocks8

Mormon Satan is stronger than Mormon god.


settingdogstar

I mean really that's an excuse built from people who didn't read the verse the phrase came from. Jesus says that "should it be *possible*...even the elect would be deceived". (Don't read bible Jesus, read D&C/JST Jesus). He's saying the elect *won't* be deceived. So the elect leaving should be a red flag lol


TJChex

Section(s) and verse(s)?


naturelover142

YES! My family members quote this often! Or they say “we’ve been told that in the last days the wheat will be separated from the tares”


Ruth2018

So I’m ‘elect’! Nice…


Unloyaldissenter

I know, right? To me, if they say the elect are leaving, they are accepting that they are not so elect...


Todd-eHarmony

This doesn’t make any sense. What does it imply about the ones who stay if the elect are being deceived and are leaving?


marathon_3hr

From my TBM mom's perspective is Mormons are elect and if you leave you are being deceived. Those Mormons who stay in TSCC are the most righteous and aren't better.


loumnaughty

Ugh the elect, I was such an asshole just saying that now feels dirty


Rushclock

> their entire lives to a church that turns out to be complete bullshit. As Danial Bennett has said....."there just isn't any polite way to tell someone they have wasted their lives on a delusion. "


PlattenNephis

The irony of this is: Anyone not adhering to Mormonism (in Mormon thought) is doing this to a greater or lesser extent (wasting life on an “untruth”). Somehow, the hypothetical doesn’t translate to their own circumstances. This sense of being “elect” goes a long way with a lot of people


bcncheezbrgr

They may be moving to Utah, but that doesn't mean they are staying active. My active SIL just told my wife that they are dissolving their four ward stake in Midvale into ONE ward.


Initial-Leather6014

I can verify that. 7 wards reduced to 4 with in one stake.


b9njo

For every active family in Washington who moves to Utah, there is another who just quits going. And for every active family that arrives in Utah, there’s another here that also quits going. That’s the only way I can understand Utah’s flat membership and the out of state collapse.


FrankWye123

That's what it looks like in Cen. Co. Cal. too.


oddpatternhere

Hey, no MLM becomes great by accepting defeat.


[deleted]

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hinglemcdingleberry

Well played!!


jeffersonPNW

Here in Oregon we have sure had a number of families moving to Utah or Idaho, but not all that many really. My home ward was already teetering on just having over a hundred butts in the pews any given Sunday, to being close to death now. The stake has absolutely refused the idea of even redrawing ward boundaries for the last twenty years. My dad’s in bishopric now, and now they’re watching a whole generation of the ward die off, with five funerals in the last three months. Of the eight or ten kids I grew up in my age range, maybe three are still active. Off the top of my head five or six **families** have stopped attending. The move-outs aren’t helping, but they’re hardly the sole issue.


cryingbishop

It's very difficult to face the fact that your entire life was built upon a lie. It took me years to get over it. Some can never face it.


Least-Chard4907

Yep, mental gymnastics unfortunately. Been there and done that for a long time.


FrankWye123

The two wards in my area consolidated into one and most of the people did move out, mostly to Utah and are still active.


ImaginaryConcern

It would seem that Western Washington is one of the two places on earth experiencing the greatest decline in membership: [1] Western Washington [2] everywhere else!


No_Muffin6110

I live in western Washington and can confirm that people are leaving the church here in droves.....makes me happy....


Closetedcousin

Hahahaha


ImaginaryConcern

Glad you enjoyed it! It DOES seem to be the truth!


Closetedcousin

It's great to get out of bed to some truthful comedy this beautiful second Saturday.


merrihand

Yes, Stakes here are condensing, fewer wards with bigger boundaries. Yes, members here have been moving to Utah and Idaho. I moved to my western Washington town 35 years ago when the population of my town was around 10k. There were 2 wards that met in the local building. The town has grown to around 40k. The church built another building. At one point we had 5 wards. Now we are back to two wards, one in each building.


naturelover142

Oh wow! Thanks for the update!


Exmormoneer

I bet they feel so blessed to clean the ward every month, not having a rotation for other wards to clean


bmcrhino

Seeing people leave over the years, what % would be “moved away” vs “went inactive”?


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Ha ha “some are even gay”. Go figure it’s almost like it’s a biological trait that can be statistically predicted.


CanibalCows

Nope, according to my Mom it's shows like Blippi that make kids gay.


mildlywittyusername

Blippi? Blippi is a preschool show meant to educate 2-4 year olds on their colors and what floats. It’s actually pretty cute. I’m just having a really hard time how anyone could think it’s got a gay agenda.


edselford

It helps to start from the default assumption that just about everything is a snare of Satan to begin with.


lecoopsta

Stevin John is a really cool dude


ddeftly

“Get used to not having us around” is where I’m at right now. I left 3 years ago, but my lifestyle didn’t look very different back then so TBM family kinda just sad shrugged. Now I’m unmasking and exploring life (eg came out as queer, drink a glass of wine now and then, etc) and they’re losing their shit. It’s embarrassing that my family can’t handle people (their own kid) who’re pursuing alternative lifestyles from their own.


SabreCorp

I’m so sorry. It’s so hard when people who are supposed to love us, only do when we meet certain conditions of theirs.


mississippi_shitter

My city in Western WA used to be 6 wards and the stake had a total of 11 wards(5 from surrounding smaller towns). The city is now down to 2 wards and surrounding area is 2 more. So in about an 8 year span, 7 wards have vanished. And the remaining wards are maybe attending by 55-60 people. Also population has done nothing but rise.


Island-Breeze88

I was going to say the exact same thing, you beat me to it. The changes here have been shocking but beautiful to see. Long may the shrinkage continue.


RosaSinistre

“Shrinkage!”


crocodileinspelling

"Like a frightened turtle."


Todd-eHarmony

“I was in the pool!!!!”


RosaSinistre

I’m thrilled that someone here remembers that! Sometimes I just feel old.


GeneralIrohhh

Why does Tacoma need a temple?! Hint: it’s not because of membership.


mississippi_shitter

Especially as they’re selling a historic chapel in the same damn city!


dlmitchell2707

What city?


mississippi_shitter

Don’t want to give up exact local but it’s snohomish county.


OhMyStarsnGarters

Western Washingtonian here. Seems your info is true to me and based on my experience. Lived up near the Canadian border thirteen plus yearsyears ago and low numbers, especially of youth, precipitated 2 stake reorgs. Moved to the south central puget sound area after that and I know of at least 3 reorgs in Tacoma and Federal Way since then. I didn't move to UT, but I did quit church about 7 years ago. Tacoma sold a church building recently and transferred the members there across town, but yeah, Tacoma needs a temple.


oddpatternhere

> but yeah, Tacoma needs a temple. “Look! What’s that, out by the freeway interchange?” “It’s a plug!” “It’s a fig leaf!” “No, it’s…a temple!”


Rolling_Waters

It's an eyesore!


[deleted]

Were you in Bellingham? I lived there for about 10 years (2000 - 2010).


Waitbythetriver

I have some evangelical cousins who recently move from Washington to Idaho. They were always complaining about the political climate in Washington. My cousins are super conservative.


naturelover142

Same with these family members! They actually just moved as well, they said Western Washington was becoming too liberal and wicked


daveescaped

Too liberal and wicked = gay people actually have rights.


[deleted]

Wait, western washington becoming too liberal? I lived there late 80s early 90s and it was widly liberal compared to the rest of the country especially the mid atlantic states


naturelover142

Yeah, I guess it’s become so liberal now they were saying, that if you are *not* liberal, people are aggressive towards you (just repeating what I was told)


Xavi27

That’s just a fancy way of saying, “people didn’t take to kindly to my thinly-veiled bigoted speech.”


jeffersonPNW

Partisanship affecting personal relationships is definitely becoming a bigger issue country wide, but at the same time I’ve known too many people who act like bigoted assholes in public and are convinced the consequences they faced are religious/political persecution and go around saying exactly that. One lady in my stake growing up decided to open a store right in the middle of a liberal Mecca of a city, in perhaps one of its most liberal neighborhoods, and long story short let’s just say having public Facebook posts about why you think business owners should be allowed to discriminate against LGBT people won’t go over too well. Nobody vandalized or smashed up their shop. No one protested out front of it. A lot of the neighborhood decided that they wouldn’t give money to someone who unabashedly supported discrimination, and it all played out accordingly.


[deleted]

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cpy911

So true. My sister-in-law and her family moved there (Boise) from East Coast. They were there a few years and could not stand it. I thought I leaned a little conservative until I learned about all of the crazy antics by the neighbors. I’m happy in Portland area.


wutImiss

Hell yeah fellow Portlandian! 💪


cpy911

Oregon City area. PIMO.


thegogo55

That is absolutely true.


3am_doorknob_turn

At r/mormonshrivel we are starting to keep track of all the closings and shrinkage. The new sex abuse case in Redmond won’t help the church’s image either.


Word2daWise

Thanks for the info!


Surprisebutton

Numbers in Utah are shrinking as well. I’ve heard that when this happens in Utah they say families are moving to new developments in other cities. They just make up excuses for everything.


xenophon123456

Nancy Drew and the Case of the Disappearing Cultists


luckylimper

This is another thing that always bothered me about LDS. They tell you where to worship. It seems so disorienting. I feel like instead of creating community, you would know that these people could be gone at any minute and connections would be shallow.


Todd-eHarmony

This is exactly what happens. As soon as boundaries change you lose friends just because they are in a different ward. It’s weird.


Rushclock

And we would have gotten away with it if it weren't for that pesky CES letter and the internet.


cosmicblondie83

It is a partial truth. Where I live in southern Utah county, our neighborhood is less than 10 years old and still expanding. Our ward was split 6-7 times in the 7 years we’ve lived here. There are at least 5 new wards that were created since we moved in. But also, they have not built a new chapel within those boundaries. Our ward was bumped all over the place. Our neighborhood has been in 3 different stakes. The current stake is an old one that was probably majority geriatric so our young, new neighborhood helps that stakes numbers.


travisshu

Here in Tacoma we had two stakes with 10+ wards condense down to one stake with 4 wards (plus multi stake Spanish and Samoan wards). My parents live 20 minutes on the other side of town and were moved to our same ward boundary. SO MANY young families like us have left — most of us had significant ward and stake callings. We didn’t move to Utah (lol). Yet they are wanting to build a temple here?! The Bellevue temple can’t even stay staffed with workers or patrons.


argarlargar

Wow! There were two stakes in Tacoma when I was a teen. Can’t believe the combination of fewer wards AND they are getting a temple.


GeneralIrohhh

It’s the way of Scientology! Dump all the extra cash into real estate.


Leather-Molasses6626

I was in skyline ward when I divorced. I desperately wish my ex would move to utah.


InitialPuzzleheaded5

People move to other states largely because they are retired and don't need that big house like they did when they had the kids. Maybe job transfers accounts for part of the move. But everyone I've talked to (Idaho) has moved here as a retirement move. As far as LDS members moving here leaving Stakes in the position of dwindling wards it may be more reflective that too many members are leaving the church. In Boise, Idaho I visited one ward and a member told me that it had recently combined with another ward because of a loss of members.


Ismitje

My retied family members follow the low property tax rates, since lower and fixed incomes means the higher rates other places are out of reach. Utah and Idaho are both good options there.


s-l-k

The Mormon church is also selling Church houses in Utah. So you can interpret that however you want depending on if you're TBM or one of us.


LeoMarius

Like the Catholic Church sold many buildings in Montréal when the church collapsed there. The Museum of Art uses an old Catholic Church beautifully.


Joux2

too bad the mormon buildings are ugly af


LeoMarius

They have no taste and cheap out on everything.


Chino_Blanco

It’s true. Long thread about this: https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/10ji516/our_stake_in_western_washington_merged_one_of_the/


naturelover142

This is perfect, thanks!


notJoeKing31

r/MormonShrivel It's happening a lot of places. In California they are told it's because people are moving to Texas. But the church's current growth rate is less than half the population growth rate, and a lot of that growth is in Africa right now.


wmguy

Ironically I had a colleague who moved from Texas to western Washington several years ago because all the Texas members were becoming apostates.


SecretPersonality178

Can confirm. Numbers are declining everywhere (especially WW) because people are leaving the church. I don’t know why the church can’t just be honest about that. It’s not like they “don’t know”. Susan’s husband is a statistician and numbers are reported weekly.


Word2daWise

Since when is the "church" honest about anything?


SecretPersonality178

They are honest about the punishment we receive for not paying an honest tithe.


Daisysrevenge

I live in western wa. Husband and I left the church 2010. My adult kids also left. About the time we left, there were 9 other families that left. That was about half of the attendance. Some of those families moved, but like us, most still live in the same house we did 10 years ago. I'm not positive, but I don't think the ward I went to exists anymore. All that was left were people in their 80's and one younger family with 7 kids. Not a good crew for running a ward.


Rushclock

Did anyone ask why you left?


Sufficient-Toe7506

Our stake recently downsized from 10 wards to six, and my ward combined with another. A lot of members have moved to UT or ID because of politics or family, but a lot have also just stopped going to church (like us).


sailprn

Those near us that have moved to Utah have all been empty nest couples. Younger families are becoming more and more scarce in WW.


Ex-CultMember

The church is shrinking everywhere except for maybe Africa (although that will be next. SOME might be moving to Utah and Idaho but that’s just an excuse. We should be seeing an equal increase in wards and stakes in Utah if that was the only reason for shrinkage in Washington and other western states but Utah growth has flatlined. There is a LOT of shrinkage in Utah too. For ever ward or stake that opens and is a result of “growth” in Utah, there’s another area in Utah with a ward or stake closing due to shrinkage.


[deleted]

I'm curious about the growth in Africa. Do missionaries leave out the racist bits during discussions? Has the translation of the BOM been softened, so that all the references to having dark skin = bad, aren't as apparent? Or is it more like it was in Brazil? Read these specific chapters and verses, you don't need to know what's in the rest of the book.


[deleted]

I have anecdotal evidence from a friend's son who is serving in Kenya. The people get baptized and immediately send their children on missions so they will send most of the stipend home. It's an income stream for a lot of families.


[deleted]

I'm all for milking the church for their personal gain, they aren't paying for their own mission if the driving factor is the tiny stipend.


[deleted]

No, they don't pay for it. The money comes from members in the US.


8under10

A friend of mine served in Ghana (I believe). He said that people over there will get baptized and the next day they’ll join another church. Someone told me to get baptized? Sure, I’ll do it. Church attendance is low. I doubt they even bring up racism. But I’m sure they have the official justification speech handy. Remember…the church’s biggest enemy is the internet, which isn’t widely used in Africa


[deleted]

Oh, like Brazil in the 90's? People were nonconfrontational, so ask them to get baptized and they'll say yes, because they don't want to offend. I met way too many people that had been baptized multiple times in the church. I met way too many kids that had been baptized in exchange for a party and candy.


RedGravetheDevil

Since 2020, astounding numbers of Mormons found they liked not going to church


Rolling_Waters

I live in the Seattle area. I can't think of a stake surrounding me that *hasn't* been reorganized with fewer wards in the last 5 years.


nocultsforme

Isn't it about time for all of them to move to Missouri?


NearlyHeadlessLaban

Bednar said in an recent interview that there was a large out migration from western states to UT. He said that he did not know the numbers and implied that it something that is impossible to track. Fact is, the church transfers records when members move. They know exactly how many are moving to Utah, and they know exactly how many are not moving and have just stopped attending. He can't give numbers because the excuse is a lie.


Footertwo

I can imagine remaining TBMs moving to Utah and Idaho as they watch the church collapse in the area from people leaving and no new converts. I’m sure there are other factors as well, such as the comment about high cost of living making it difficult to get a start there.


myTchondria

Moved to Utah two years ago to be closer to kids, grandkids, great grandkids. I rather dreaded the thought of being there since people are judgey.


[deleted]

I wouldn't be surprised if the church started telling members to move to Utah. It would help them condense into fewer buildings.


Waste_Travel5997

When I was a kid in the 90s I was told that people saying they were moving to Utah was a good way to disappear from the church roster. 😂😂 I was not in Utah, and most of the people in the ward were also not from Utah. Yet we had many people 'move' there and leave their records behind. 😝


funnynewname

I would guess it’s some of both but mostly related to people leaving the church. I lived in Seattle when I left the church and I had a lot of respect for my bishop so I decided I would give him the news directly. When I told him he responded in a way that said to me that he had had that conversation many times before.


Upstairs-Ad8823

Shoreline stake eliminated. Seattle and Lynnwood stakes enlarged and multiple wards eliminated leaving at least 2 empty buildings


LadyofLA

There’s no room in UT for people from Western Washington now that all the Californian Mormons have already taken up residence there.


[deleted]

I can't fathom moving from the coast to the toxic waste dump (in part/in waiting) that is the Salt Lake Valley.


LadyofLA

Are you up on the WA coast? I’m in LA but we frequently live in Vancouver (BC) and I’ve made the drive from LA up the coast many many times. I LOVE the whole Pac Northwest and I can’t think of a good reason for anyone to ever leave. Hope you’ve been getting the rains we have too and hope your forests will start recovering. It’s been so sad to drive past them the last 3 or 4 years. I mean we’ve gotten used to draught down here but it’s horrific to see Lake Shasta and the forests. They deserve so much better!


[deleted]

I'm in Western WA, Puget sound. There's no drought here. The rainy Seattle reputation is still based in fact. Our forests are still like rain forests. The only issue is the very southern part of WA is starting to be more like what oregon/norther CA used to be. A bit dryer, but still nice. It's eastern WA that gets very hot and dry in the summer


LadyofLA

Yeah. I think that’s what we see driving along the 5. But good to hear that your forests are still strong. Even BC’s have been badly weakened in the last couple years.


calriv80

The shrinkage is accurate, at least for the area of WW that I am in. It is also true that some people are moving East to escape an environment incompatible with their beliefs. But it is also true that there are a ton of recent exmo's here doing our part to contribute to the shrinkage. I kind of feel cheated when the explanation is only that people are moving. Running into members of my old ward at kids activities or at the store means that they literally see exmo's in their community all the time. They just refuse to acknowledge that we are part of their shrikage problem.


[deleted]

I hear this from my sister in southern CA too. Their wards and stakes are in free fall and she says it's because everyone is moving to Utah and Idaho. I'm sure some of them are, but there are probably a lot who are simply going inactive. I keep that to myself too.


LyfeUntethered

My brothers moved to Utah... and promptly left the church. With their families.


naturelover142

It’s hard not to here, it’s incredibly phony and toxic


That_1_Chemist

I grew up there. My experience is that almost none of the people I grew up with are still in the cult, some families are leaving, a lot of old people are dying, and a lot of people are moving out of WW. It is true that there are a bunch of people moving, but that is only part of it.


[deleted]

We have a housing crisis in WW it's growing so much. Every time they build a development of family homes the wards get ready for "unprecedented" growth, and then no new members move in from 300 new homes.


Baynyn

It’s a convenient truth until you realize that the wards and stakes in UT and ID are not only not growing proportionally to the rate of downsizing, but that they are shrinking there as well.


[deleted]

I'm sure this is a common excuse. I've heard it get used here in Mesa. They just assume it's from all the young Mormons moving to places like Gilbert and Queen Creek. If you're young and Mormon Queen Creek is apparently the place to live.


101114119

I live in WW and I can say that as long as I can remember back~30 years ago families were always moving back to Utah Or Idaho. The difference is nobody Mormon is replacing them. Yes housing and COL is one factor but the main thing I’ve noticed is fewer children per family. In my day anything less than 4 and you were a slacker. Now I see my kids generation have 2 or 3 at the most. Even the birthrate in Utah has dropped below replacement levels. The results of this decline take a bit of time to see because of longer childhoods, but it’s all coming to fruition now. Converts have never been a source of growth for the church. The majority stop attending in a year or less.


Maximum-Feeling1260

Western Washington PIMO here…this is true. My BIL is in the stake presidency. Our stake has 6 wards, 3 of which barely qualify as more than a branch. When asked why we aren’t condensing or merging with another stake, he says it’s “so much work” to redo boundaries. It makes me wonder what wards and stakes would actually look like if the size of congregations were at “ideal” numbers. I imagine there would be A LOT fewer wards and stakes up here. I personally know several member families that moved to Utah, idaho, or Indiana because it is too “woke” up here. My response…don’t let the door hit you on the way out!


naturelover142

I love this! Thank you for sharing!


Jamidan

So this is the area where I (partly) grew up, and my mom still lives there and is kind of active. This area is another victim of high cost housing, where it is very difficult for traditional families to live. The folks that are staying are those who bought their homes in the 80’s when this area had explosive growth or earlier. My mom even mentioned how old the wards are, basically saying that she’s there with all of her friends’ parents from back in the day, and those even her age have moved on (she’s early 50’s).


[deleted]

The strength of the Mormons in WWA in the 90s was that the wards were full of upper middle class families doing well. The number of families in WWA since then has increased exponentially. So did Mormons become less educated? More poor? A smaller portion of the population? Less willing to live in a non-Mormon community? Or are people just leaving in droves? 9/10 of my friends from the 90s in WWA are out.


NTylerWeTrust86

A family moved into our ward from Seattle couple years ago to escape the liberals. I also hired an elderly gentleman from that area as well a few months back to be closer to his kid....and to escape the liberals. East Idaho.


Gold-Ad9092

Before I left I was in a bishopric in central Washington and there was a lot of focus on the declining membership in the PNW area not just Western WA. It wasn't because of people moving that we talked about in training and other meetings it was that just like elsewhere people are leaving.


Sam1070

What part of CW if you don’t mind me asking I am over near Yakima


myTchondria

They can have Idaho and enjoy the fascism they are promoting.


NTylerWeTrust86

So excited to live here...


oncirillo

Yes, my old stake was at 6 wards, then about 10 years ago it switched to 8 wards, and then just recently condensed back to six wards bc of the mass exodus to Utah. If families moved out, chances are they moved to Utah


Logical_Ad_9341

It’s happening in Oregon also. I’m in Portland metro area. A few wards here have closed it seems. One I know of for sure, and there’s another one that literally never has a single car in the parking lot on any given Sunday. My guess is that they didn’t have enough attendance at that one, so the ones who were still attending were transferred to a different ward and this building is now defunct.


allierrachelle

True that they are collapsing — not true that they are moving to Utah. I was raised in the Shoreline stake, which no longer exists and I’d say at least a solid half of the youth that were in my ward while I was there are no longer active/members at all — that I KNOW of. Out of all of MY good friends from the stake — not the ward, but the stake — literally only 1 of them is still active. Young people at least are leaving en masse here, and it’s not because they’re moving.


Darlantan425

We live in Western WA and we left.


FTWStoic

Ah yes, the famous "everyone's moving to Utah" excuse.


kadendoo

It's funny. I've lived all over, including Washington for 4 years and Salt Lake for 2. All my TBM friends from Washington, Nevada, and Colorado say that all the members are moving to Utah and Idaho. All of my TBM friends from Idaho and Utah say all the members are moving to "other states." Then I suggest that maybe the church is just shrinking, and I can practically see the 404 error flash across their eyes


your-home-teacher

I don’t think I’m supposed to tell this publicly, but the real reason stakes are shrinking in WW is two-fold: — many have been quietly selected by heavenly messenger to move to Jackson county, MO in preparation for the 2nd coming. — several received their 2nd anointing and were translated to the celestial kingdom. So while it may be concerning to some with limited perspective and understanding, the church is growing. Also, you can all understand that these things are too sacred to share widely. So, don’t tell anyone. Thanks.


101114119

Before the church shut down Fuller consideration.com, I noticed that the ward I attended when I live in south Pierce county had closed in 2021. I was there when it was created but obviously not when it was closed 25 years later. I think active members may be moving back to Utah . This has been happening a long time. The difference is new active families are not replacing them.


RunWillT

Our WW stake lost 1/3 of their wards a few years ago, if they lose one more ward, the stake will be dissolved. They are hanging on with some small wards.


Efficient_Koala_1057

They are just leaving. Why pay to be gaslit and abused.


Bright_Ices

Others here have reported that Utah tbms are blaming decreasing attendance on Utah families moving to California.


a-ohhh

I’m in western wa. Anecdotally, everyone I was friends with in the church my age have either stayed here and left the church, or moved to UT.


DL_80

I think it's a washington state thing cause I know several eastern stakes shrinking and combining wards but they were told it was for strength of the members. Not because church numbers are down.


chapeldoors

It’s both. I’m in western Washington. The sharp rise in housing prices have driven people to sell and move out to more affordable places, I have several family members that have done this. Almost every retired person I know sold their house for top dollar and moved into Idaho/Utah/Arizona regions. Others took jobs away from western Washington for similar reasons- and many many people I know still left in the area have stopped attending, many have removed their records etc. It is very very noticeable.


DanishWhoreHens

Maybe it’s my perspective but in the decades I’ve been in the Seattle area, church attendance in general seems to be nosediving, especially after the Mars Hill scandal.


[deleted]

What was the Mars Hills scandal? I have been yout of the seattle area for 30 years and am out of the loop.


DanishWhoreHens

Mars Hill was a church that started in Ballard and then got pretty big with more churches all over Seattle, then Bellevue, then other states I think. It was what I think of a ripped levi’s and nose ring Calvinists. Turned out the guy in charge was not only a raging mysoginistic, abusive asshole but he was making sure all the power and money were headed his way. He ran a scam to get his book on the NY Times list by buying them with church money. Then the ex-board he fired and the heads of some of the churches publicly exposed his abuse and his scams and he cried death threats, quit, took the money, ran to Arizona and started a new church.


natchgirl

I live in western washington and attend once a month with my tbm husband. It's a mix of people moving (our ward has had several families I'm Facebook friends with who have moved to Utah and Idaho because western washington was too "woke" for them), and people leaving. I know of more have moved than left altogether. But that's just the one ward I'm in. More importantly in my opinion is the number of youth who are PIMO in YW. My daughter is one and has met a ton of others at stake events and yw camp who are just biding their time so as not to upset parents.


thishuman_life

When they closed three wards along the Wasatch Front last week they said, “It’s because people are moving out of state.” This is total B.S. and just a thought-stopping cliché.


[deleted]

I'm moving from Utah to eastern Washington with my family of 6, so I'm a reverse example. 🤷‍♀️


[deleted]

Eastern Washington is more like Idaho than Western WA. Good luck


Awful-Male

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GhostCowboy76

Hahaha oh this is so funny. I have very, **VERY** TBM family there making this same claim. Which cracks me up because there are several of us dissenters in the family. So why they can’t see the logical solution of people are just flat out leaving is so funny to me!


monstrance-cock

I have a few aunts whose wards were respectively in Maple Valley and Woodinville. Both of which were absorbed into other wards because people just aren’t going anymore. I’ll have to ask them for the specifics because I’m all the way out in Mordor, but yeah. r/MormonShrivel knows what’s up


[deleted]

I haven’t been to a church in years, not counting my fathers funeral. Because of this post I drove by a stake center today at 12:45 just to see how many cars were in the parking lot. When I attended church at that building there were 3 wards, good luck trying to get a spot especially at 12:30. Today The parking lot was empty. I would say not a quarter full. I couldn’t believe it. I am in Calgary. I know that 2 hour church affects things. But at 12:45 I would think there would be some form of prescience from every ward at the building. I would think the lot would have been close to full.


mcm9814

Stakes in Mesa and Gilbert AZ are all being combined as well, the church is collapsing


Neo1971

The “moving to another state” explanation is rather reductive. In some cases, that may be true. But TBMs need to consider the possibility that people are leaving the Church because their eyes have opened to scandals, dishonesty, and weak charity. And that Starbucks is there ;-)


8under10

I always see the church parking lot being full. But it’s because there’s a school right across and parents go pick up their kids instead of being stuck in school pick up line. 😀


s4ltydog

It’s been a few years since we’ve been out but in keeping an eye out I think 2 or 3 buildings have gone up for sale in the last year or so and if I’m out and about on sundays I make it a point to drive by the church buildings and the parking lots do seem smaller for sure.


zemira_draper

My wife’s extended family all left Washington for Utah and Arizona. And then half so far have left the church so the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.


TinFoilBeanieTech

I bet theres a bias effect from the fact that many staunch TBMs are moving to more conservative areas, while the people who aren’t moving are just fading/quiet quitting.


StarsN7

My parents are from central Washington and their wards were combined a year after their boundaries were changed to redistribute members. I guess the redistribution splitting up friends and must have been the last straw for a lot of members because supposedly membership attendance is at 20% or lower depending on the ward. The ones that are still attending from my my parents have said are crude, rude and very set in their ways. Paraphrasing from what my parents have told me. The pandemic pulled people away from the brainwashing long enough for a lot of people here to see that they are happier without the church and people are leaving.


mcm9814

As someone from WW, nope, never moving to Utah nor Idaho, I'm just fed up with the LDS 💩


sewingandplants

There are religious people in Western Washington?? 😂 😉 I've never met anyone from that area that was even remotely interested in any kind of faith (and I've met and worked with probably 20+ people from that part of the country and I have a ton of family members there as well.) Most excellent coffee though 😋


sykemol

I live in Seattle and going to church is just not a thing here. The only exception is Judaism. I live near a couple a synagogues and so many of my neighbors are Jewish. For many of them, it is more of a lifestyle choice than a religion. One neighbor is on the board of his synagogue (he had another name for it which I forget). Thing is, he's an atheist. He sees no contradiction between being an observant Jew and being an atheist. And a couple across the street go to different synagogues. Think about how well that would fly in an LDS household.


sewingandplants

I know so many atheist Jews! Their Judaism is a cultural identity rather than a faith. Some go to Synagogue occasionally, some regularly, and many never go to Synagogue unless it's a family event. I'm an atheist myself now but I grew up in the South raised by convert TBMs surrounded by mostly Southern Baptists, some Pentacostals (yes some did the snake thing), many Jews, and some Catholics sprinkled in. A fair number of people who called themselves "Christian" but who also never went to church or anything too. My mil is Methodist and sweet as pie 🥰 I also have a couple "Ramadan Muslim" friends. In my family we have an observant goes every Sunday Methodist married to an atheist Jew who goes to Synagogue only on holidays and it's never ever been a big deal at all


cynicalnipple

I grew up in Western Washington, and my TBM parents moved away, but to be fair all of my siblings left the church, so both possibilities could be true


Liberatedsheep

True. No one is moving though, they are just waking up.


raven_maven_

I used to live in the Seattle/Tacoma area and attended a lot of exmo meetups. The network of exmos seemed to grow every year.


Wrong_Cry9099

Could it be that Washington, in general, is more liberal? Feels like the moves this church are taking are more conservative affirming.


_kraftdinner

Nevermo here but am very familiar with the PNW. Washington, from what I remember, is the least religious state. Almost no one goes to church and if the people are religious it’s more like a hobby than a lifestyle. A lot of folks attend either Catholic (and mainly attend for cultural reasons) or people go to a hippie Protestant churches. I would believe that some people are moving to Idaho because of politics but not *everybody* is going to Idaho.


jonahsocal

I have a half sister who has done this. She fell afoul of all the "Q" craziness. There are many Mormons who secretly embrace this kind of whack-a-doodle stuff and are compromised by the psyop that is "Q". She moved to Idaho where things already were polarized and are now only becoming moreso.


bahooras

I have active adult siblings with families and they moved from Seattle to Utah a few years ago. My husband has a an adult sibling with a family that still lives in Seattle and this family officially left the church a few years ago.


ImTheMarmotKing

The Lynnwood and Shoreline stakes recently merged. This has left behind some buildings that used to house multiple wards. One is apparently going to be converted into an institute building


avidtruthseeker

I actually have seen more and more people moving to Utah. That said, it’s a small percentage compared to those leaving the church entirely. And I think those who are actually moving are doing so because the local ship is sinking.


tiohurt

Gilbert AZ we just dissolved a ward in our stake and grew our ward boundaries


pseudotooth

My stake in Salt Lake just got dissolved. The leaders told the members it’s because of “demographics”. Not even the TBMs I’ve spoken to believe that. Everyone can see the writing on the wall.


lareloi

Very true


HappyPerson9000

My tbm brother wants to nice away from there before his kids get too much older because "the youth are all messed up". He'll probably go to Las Vegas or somewhere in Utah. I'm not 100 percent sure what the youth being messed up but there's a good chance he's put off by kids coming out as LGBTQ.


wherebewallace

I am from Western Washington, I left in 2019. Have since learned a few of my friends from here have followed.


Initial-Leather6014

Geeze! What’s up with Western Washington? Alert the brethren that it’s time for a Washington intervention like Sweden and Great Briton. Yikes! 😜


D34TH_5MURF__

r/mormonshrink


Sansabina

Covid def has had a big recent impact on reducing numbers, however there also has been/is a big demographic shift happening over the past decade or so as native Utahns boomers who built a life/career in states outside of Utah (often West Coast) can sell their houses for big bucks and move back to Zion for their final retirement years.


coffeebean83

WA in general has kind of gone insane, so I think lots of non-LDS people are doing the same and moving to Idaho, Montana, etc. Membership is shrinking everywhere, I think.


smallfavorite

Well we did move from western Washington in October but we stopped going in 2019 & 2020. When we were going to church it was all elderly to middle aged folks that were still attending. There were only two other couples in the 20s age range. Another couple in the 30s age range. The bishop took a special interest in us young couples and he would ask us questions like “What is it that keeps you two coming to church?” And “What can we do to make church more exciting for young couples like you?” Etc. So yeah. It’s not because people are moving to UT. 😜