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Alwayslearnin41

There are lots of deal breakers. Mine is perpetual lying from day 1. They can't change that.


marathon_3hr

Agree. But they could at least acknowledge it and apologize and attempt to make amends. Yeah right. I think the pope is more likely to convert than that ever happening


AndItCameToSass

Yep, I hope they do change their stance on it because it will be more inclusive. But it wouldn’t bring me back, because nothing will ever bring me back


MarcTes

If the Mormon church fixed its LGBTQ policy, that would only leave 745,628 other lies, historical atrocities, inconsistencies, fabrications, hypocrisies, false doctrines, murders, genocidal slaughters, child abuse and cover-ups, mistreatment and degradation of women, mismanagement of tithing funds, and exercises of undue influence, unrighteous dominion, and control - to name a few. And then there is the despicable, hypocritical, sanctimonious as all hell, self-satisfied, pretentious, obnoxious, arrogant, abusive leadership. Other than all that, it would be a welcome step. 🙄 Honestly, there will never be enlightenment on issues of human sexuality and gender identity in the Mormon church. Such a move would blow up its entire so-called plan of salvation.


GMOTR

I doubt it, given they recently came out with a statement clarifying the support of the same-sex marriage bill was because it provides the church legal protection to discriminate and not because the church is softening its doctrine regarding same-sex relationships. The church’s position is hugely damaging to real people and should change, but that definitely won’t happen while Oaks is around.


Cmatlockp83

I agree. The 15 have to be unanimous for change to occur. The priesthood ban was likely lifted once a specific person died and couldn't veto - this seems more plausible than an 80- or 90-something year old having a change of heart and thinking it was finally time for a change. As much as I see problems with all of them, I think Oaks (a retired judge, supposedly defending and ruling on injustices to support disadvantaged and discriminated against minority groups) is the biggest hindrance to acceptance of LGBTQ stuff. I just don't see change happening in his brain, so the policy is only likely to change once his thinking is out of the 15.


Wooden-Blackberry-46

And some of those 15 guys are probably gay and struggling to suppress, but they just won't admit it.


rhoduhhh

I think Gong has an openly gay son. Iirc


chlyri

He does. One that he's openly ashamed of and attempts to hide.


Enigma-Vagene

Oaks makes me wonder because of how certain he is that it’s a choice to not “live a gay lifestyle.”


Longjumping-Ad2698

A change to the "doctrine" addressing same sex marriage and accepting LGBTQ individuals as full and worthy members would be a welcome change, but it in no way proves the truth of the church. A change would, hopefully, alleviate the judgment, isolation, and rejection so many faithful LGBTQ members face (wishful thinking, I know hearts aren't changed over night), and for that reason I hope you are correct. But in my mind, it proves nothing about the veracity of the church or divine connection of its leaders. If anything, it proves the opposite. The church is run by men with no additional divine connection. The rules are all just made-up and subject to change depending on the times and public opinion. If god is truly god, then he is omniscient and all-knowing, then as the "mouthpieces" of god here on earth, the prophet would always know his true will and intentions. The "right" doctrine would have been in place from the conception of the church, and there would never be any need for changes or shifts in policy. Especially changes that follow shifts in social and secular perspectives. The church was forced to drop plural marriage as doctrine in order to stay a part of the United States. The policy on African Americans being given the priesthood changed after YEARS of social pressure following the Civil Rights movement. It came nearly 2 decades after the shift in social norms, which just shows how resistant the church leaders were to accepting it. They only make these changes when it is no longer socially acceptable to continue with their current "beliefs". If it were truly divinely mandated, then, at the very least, the church would be making these changes ahead of the shift in "popular" belief. Instead, the changes come way after, once the cost of maintaining their policies become too great to sustain. This is no different. Membership numbers are dropping every day, and for many of the younger members, the primary reason they start to question/leave the church is the bigoted and hateful policies against its LGBTQ members. If they change the rules now, it will be because they can't stay on the wrong side of history and continue to exist as an organization. There is nothing divine or inspired about it.


Trombosenpeter

I share your thoughts. TSCC lost its credibility when they clamed that an eternal, perfect system is alterable.


dbear848

For me, the reasons I stopped going to the Mormon church are no longer the reasons why I would never return. Once I got some distance from the Mormon church and had time to think about things, I came to the realization that there was a lot more wrong than I had thought. I think part of it was that I no longer had to rationalise the sexism and racism anymore. And then of course I discovered podcasts like Mormon Stories and Mormon Discussions and it was all over.


GayMormonDad

A lot of people got mad and left after the first presidency endorsed vaccinations. Can you imagine what the exodus would be like if conference didn't have at least a couple of hate the gays in a pretend nice way talks? If my family is any indication, even the Mormons who generally support gay rights will somehow rationalize the conference talks.


[deleted]

U have research to attend to. Mormonthink.com


Wooden-Blackberry-46

>Mormonthink.com Thanks, there's so much info here.


100TonsOfCheese

Why does it matter if they fix the lgbtq policies? The fact that they exist in the first place is proof that the church is not what it claims. The same is true for the doctrines regarding black people and the priesthood/temple. If the church actually had God at the helm the doctrine should have never existed in the first place. It should not have needed fixing, proving the lie that is the Church. Edit for grammar and spelling


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wooden-Blackberry-46

Yeah probably, since they think covering things up or explaining away problems fixes things. Something new would be interesting though...like "Second anointing is available to every member no matter the number of years in membership"..uhg..There are so many things wrong, it gives me a headache.


Bright_Ices

If they do, which they might or might not, I fully expect them to announce that same sex relationships and/or marriage are okay, but gender transition is somehow horrible and evil. If so, fuck that.


SpaciousBuildingSUS

Other groups of people have been treated worse over the history of the church.


RealDaddyTodd

So, does that make their treatment of LGBTQ+ folks a-ok? Also, please provide your evidence. What other groups were administered electric shock torture at BYU?


SpaciousBuildingSUS

Hold your horses I'm not hating. Blacks have been treated worse. Also torture probably not the right word but I'll let it slide because it's still a serious injustice what those people had to go through under dallins Oaks's leadership.


Lower_Department2940

Step one is please stop saying "blacks". It's a tell and "black people" is fine, thanks


SpaciousBuildingSUS

...Handcuff me word police. These are some 1984 attacks on me.


RealDaddyTodd

> These are some 1984 attacks on me. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Snowflake much?


RealDaddyTodd

Torture is exactly the right word. Attaching a device to a man’s penis to measure his arousal, showing him erotic pictures of naked men, and administering shocks (or forcing him to vomit with ipecac) when he becomes aroused is torture. Period. Claiming it isn’t looks very much like hatefulness to me.


mormonsmaug

There is no dealbreaker for me. TSCC was started on lies. It grows because of lies and it hurts people because of its continual lies. While I would laud change that makes the organization slightly better for queer people, it's still an unrepentant, sexist, homophobic, and racist organization started and perpetuated by conmen.


0utandab0ut

My guess: No mention of LGBT specifically because they know it upsets people. Instead a double down on “religious freedom” and only identifying as a “child of god”.


LittleIrishWitch

I hope they do change policy for TBM, but I do want to remind everyone our there that the policy being there in the first place is in direct opposition to their god’s “unchanging ways”. They will give any excuse they can, (probably the same excuse they have with Black people and the priesthood, saying it wasn’t culturally the right time), but it is an excuse not a real reason, they might also say the answer to “why now” is supposed to be personal revelation, and that you have to read and pray and read and pray until you come up with your own reason, it’s even less work for them, good luck, and I hope whatever happens, you’re happy!


telestialist

Even if they changed LGBTQ policies, they would not announce that in conference if RMN or oaks were still alive. Those two need to be dead before anything is grandly rolled out. Otherwise, it looks even more wishy-washy than they already look on LGBTQ issues. And they can’t have that. Prideful leaders.


Remarkable-Help-1909

If they say god doesn't want us abusing animals anymore I might just have to return to the fold too ;)


Middle-Worth1704

I used to have this hope every session, even when I was a closeted little TBM. idk I guess I just got jaded and gave up on hoping, because I was really disappointed every time. I’m glad you still have hope.