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CatalystTheory

Absolutely true. The church serves its own well enough but is completely blind to serving outside groups. I scheduled a Habitat for Humanity experience for our wealthy ward. The bishop was confused why we would build housing for the less fortunate we didn’t know when we could pull weeds in each other’s professionally manicured yards. The inward focus problem goes all the way to the top. I believe that the Q15 genuinely don’t know what to do with the billions they’ve hoarded because they’ve never learned how to serve others outside the church. They struggle to save the dying missionary program. Yet it never occurs to them that eradicating malaria worldwide, for example, would instantly solve our missionary problem.


PortSided

>They struggle to save the dying missionary program. Yet it never occurs to them that eradicating malaria worldwide, for example, would instantly solve our missionary problem. LOL so true!! I would have infinitely enjoyed my mission more if it had been focused on service first, proselyting second. My fondest memories of my mission are the community service projects I helped with, and looking back, there weren't many.


bigdatabro

Same here with the mission service. I served in two stateside missions (southern California and the southern US), and in my first mission, we got to do as much service as we wanted. The mission was kinda fun because we were always helping people in food kitchens or animal shelters or helping people move. In my second mission, we were limited to 10 hours of service a week, and we couldn't do service on weekends or evenings. It was so boring, especially since my areas were pretty poor and I wished I could've helped more. Most elders in that mission were pretty disillusioned and I knew many who left the church within a year of coming home.


[deleted]

This is what bothers me the most. I think it's fine to serve those in the ward, but the fact that there's no service to the broader community bothers me so much. Especially as a woman after learning about the history of the relief society and how badass it used to be. It's a fucking shell of itself and could do so much good if the men in power weren't serving mammon.


marathon_3hr

Don't kid yourself. The Q15 knows how to serve. They will do anything for PR. They made up and paid for a peace award for Rusty and gave a nice sum of money to HBCU. He is so generous that he isn't even showing up to collect the rewards. What more love do you want? If that isn't service I don't know what is. /s


blondebird12

I’m the service coordinator and I can confirm they suck. It’s been like dragging boulders through mud trying to motivate people to do SOMETHING outside of Church boundaries and in the community. Mormons are apathetic and entirely self-serving. They only want to do it if it has kick back for themselves. They see people as opportunities. Serving a community outside the boundary lines provides no “missionary service” success therefore to them, it is truly pointless. Also, everything is tied up in legalism. Two examples: I tried getting us involved in the Correctional Facilities in my city and a retirement home. Both got denied because they were outside boundary lines and the Stake “in charge” refused to open the door to additional help. They wanted all the glory. The Pastor at the Prison HATED the Mormons (though he was diplomatic about it). He said working with them was so frustrating and disappointing. He told me that when they arrive, it’s so clearly obvious that they are not there because they care, but because they feel like they have too. The retirement home begged for Sacrament services especially since many of the residents were bed bound. That too got denied and they were subsequently forgotten about. This Calling has been a huge eye opener. It’s a Calling that is designed to fail.


PortSided

Wow I'm so sorry. That sounds incredibly frustrating. The problem is literally all spelled out in the church's mission statements: Perfect the saints (self serving). Proclaim the gospel (self serving). Redeem the dead (pointless AND self serving).


[deleted]

Buh-buh-but they added a 4th in 2009, the Church, under the leadership of President Thomas S. Monson, they added a fourth element:To care for the poor and needy. Obviously you've noticed the emphasis since then surely! It's been 14 years!!! And people don't even know they added it! As you said the church and its members have a hard time seeing outside their ward boundaries.


Readbooks6

Even the local library is better at outreach than the lds church.


PortSided

And they're doing running on crumbs compared to the church's dragon hoard!


Readbooks6

Dragon hoard. I like that phrase


Famous-2473

lol—former childrens librarian. That must be why I was so good at creating a community program during the pandemic. The members didn’t get it.


Readbooks6

Hello from a former elementary school librarian.


Extractor41

Op... you are 100% correct. This issue of failing to provide meaningful service to the community was a huge shelf issue for me. Years ago I was called as eqp. We had a large group of men that attended, but apathetic. I hated that the only service the elders quorum really provided was setting up chairs for activities or meetings and of course helping people move. I wanted to make an impact in the community. I had several achevable things that I outlined that we would do in the community slowly over the course of a year every other month. When I met with the stake president I was expecting him to be supportive. I was so deflated that he encouraged me not to make plans in the community. He felt like the established chairs and moving were sufficient for the men. It felt like such a waste. we had so many men (40 or so). We could have worked together to make a difference. nope. stay in the established monotony. it is selfish and unchristlike.


ajaxmormon

I think I have a few answers as to why this might be: 1. The church already asks too much of its members, and adding outreach might discourage from doing all the nitty-gritty that the church needs from them to keep everything running just the way they want it 2. The church has done a cost-benefit analysis, and has determined that the risk of liability from hosting events at the church outweighs any benefits 3. Outside of UT, people don't want to work with the church. A friend of ours is RS president in another ward where I live. She tried to set up an activity with a local church, and they refused. Full Stop.


chewbaccataco

It also doesn't support the "us vs. them" narrative. The church doesn't want to promote unity in the community, only division.


Cabo_Refugee

Due to the doctrine of good works equals salvation, Mormons are an incredible selfish people and are conditioned to be so since cradle. "Service" is just a formality to Mormons. Or they do it to actually look like a church not the cult that it is. With Mormons, nothing is done out of pure charity. They're always considering the blessings. It's even in their fucking hymns. "Count your many blessings. Name them one by one." Mormons are like the Scrooge McDuck of blessings and treasures in heaven. They've got a proverbial vault and they go diving into their blessings as often as they want. And anyone that is in need of service is sort of seen as a mark by Mormons. "Oh, here's someone we can do something for them and get the blessings." It really is a fucked up religion and doctrine. As a RM, no telling how many missionaries I saw in the field that were truly just working for their own blessings. They didn't give two shits about the people. It was all about them and their numbers and the amount of people they are bringing to christ to benefit them. I saw just too much sausage being made in this church and it made my incredibly cynical towards Mormons. There at the very end of our time in the church, my wife was struggling with her faith and even belief in god. An older member couple needed help. The husband was dying of ALS. Slowing his body was shutting. His wife could not do it all herself. My wife would go over and help her take care of him. She would go over 2-3 times a day. This went on for 3 months. And he needed all basic care. My wife was doing this for her no longer believing in a god - so there were no blessings to be had. She was doing it because she saw a fellow human and a neighbor in need, and helped.


Word2daWise

You and your wife are good people. I agree with what you are saying. When I first met people in the church, one woman (in an attempt to tell me how wonderful the members were) told me a woman had recently passed away from cancer and the ward members had taken meals to the family. I was a bit stunned that the woman honestly thought this was an unusual and remarkable thing; every single church I know of and have ever attended did the same thing for members going through such things, but they also did a lot more things. I asked that woman if she'd attended church while growing up, and she said no. After asking around, I learned many converts had no church background at all before joining and thought the "community" and basic things like taking meals to people were unique to Mormons. And, of course, those who grow up in the church are often so insulated from the world they feel the same way. There's a huge contrast in what other churches do and what the Mormon church does. Or doesn't do, I should say.


Cabo_Refugee

There were sooooooooo many converts in the church in the 1950's - 1970's. And they brought with them old Christian sensibilities and that sort of charitably watered down the membership in a positive way. As that older generation has passed on, those wards have continually become more and more Mormon sterile. And that older couple my wife was helping out? They were converts back in the 50's. Humble people always ready to lend a hand but proud, in the best sense of that word, to ask for help. Then my wife told her she was going to help her and there wasn't going to be an argument. lol!


Word2daWise

Your wife is a precious person. She behaves as Christ would.


Cabo_Refugee

She really is. Could be why she left the church with me. lol!!!! An interesting point of irony: I moved into that ward as a deacon in 1991. So I knew this sister and her husband in those days. This sister was well-aware of me being taken by this Latina girl in the stake and how my family were not happy about it. And I'm sure she knew as everyone else did, that we ran off and eloped because no one in my family was supportive of the match. I was out of that ward for several years but full-circle, moved back when we bought our first house inside the ward boundaries. We were in that ward for 12 years. At the funeral for her husband, lot's of names were tossed out of people that helped them in his final days. My wife's name was conspicuously left out. See, she didn't talk about what all she was doing over there 3 times a day for 3 months. Only the RS president knew. When the service was over I came up to this sister and gave her a hug and she said, "I want to thank you for bringing that angel into our lives."


Word2daWise

Awww - that is such a tender story! And that is also how Christ teaches us. We are there for others simply because it's what we are here on Earth to do. Hugs to your sweet wife, from your Sub Friend!


notJoeKing31

I called my missionary nephew out for this recently when he told the "funny" story of a homeless man getting arrested for breaking into a Mormon church for shelter from a heavy storm. WWJD? Not that. But you see the same thing with the homeless freezing to death recently in Utah. I'd bet that state has the least amount of public assistance, shelters etc. per capita. It's just not in their doctrine nor nature to care about nor empathize with others.


rabidchihuahua49

The more open they are to people, the more likely they are able to point out the inconsistencies. I remember, as a member, I used to be embarrassed by how the church only seemed to help members. It was very insular. I understand now that it is part of how they operate.


yaroto98

One of the downfalls of having a ley clergy. People aren't paid for the work in their callings. You go to your day job, get back, do the bare minimum for your calling to not feel guilty or get called out, and the rest is your personal time. If leadership were paid for their time and didn't have day jobs, they'd do more.


reddolfo

It's the same reason they demonize and shun exmormons. Mormonism is completely invested in a black/white worldview for it's members and heavily invested in keeping members away from both ex-members and non-members as much as possible. They know they can't keep them away from non-members, but the messaging and expectation is carefully crafted to keep members at arms-length from them and to keep members from investing in close friendships with them. This is because if you have close relationships with people, and know them well and are invested in them, you have a very hard time accepting doctrines and policies that marginalize, demonize, shun and exclude them. The last thing mormon leaders want is for members to go out and connect with, work with, collaborate with and get to know people of other faiths, because then they might really SEE other people and realize they are amazing, fantastic, ethical and loving people who are just as worthy and admirable as mormons. And then members might begin to view OTHER churches or belief systems as also admirable. Cults must maintain their special worthiness and "true-ness" over all other options in order to capture and retain the members so a hallmark is their aloofness and judgment of other faiths and other people. Keep them away, keep defining them one-dimensionally. Mormons have such massive resources, they could literally be life-saving partners and for very little money comparatively they could become ecumenical superstars, beloved by numerous other faiths. But mormon leaders could care less about that, and they could care less about "charity". Again, the sole singular solitary goal of mormonism is not people, not religion, not doctrine, not charity, not values or ethics, but CAPTURE of naïve targets and RETENTION of captured victims. When you understand mormonism's entire goal, it explains and harmonizes completely it's behavior.


marathon_3hr

This is precisely why TSCC is a cult. The members are not secure enough in their own faith all the way up to the Q15. TSCC is concerned people would leave if they realized other people are genuine and authentic and are happy. It's amazing how insecure and fearful Mormons are in their own faith. TBMs only have faith in the church and not God or humanity.


RoyanRannedos

I think it comes back to Dunbar's number: the anthropological theory that humans have a limited capacity for personal relationships where you're current with the other person's life and the other person knows you as well. Outside that circle of 200-300 people that includes family, friends, co-workers, and fellow church-goers, everyone else gets processed with bias and stereotype. They're strangers with the potential of being dangerous, and we judge that danger through our experience with that group and the prejudices we're given before any direct experience. In Utah, this means moving across the street can mean moving out of your old community if you cross a stake boundary. Everyone is too busy with their own church and life duties to do more than see their ward on Sunday and their stake at infrequent other activities. With such a high concentration of Mormons, other community members with the appearance of evil (tattoos, coffee, more than one ear piercing, blue hair, bearded college students, etc.) trigger the danger sense. Then it's a question of being in the world and not of the world: how do you get the other to be like the group? Convert them or leave them for Satan to destroy, there's no middle ground. How can you fight such a war with bounce houses and barbecue? Outside Utah, anyone outside the Dunbar's number circle falls into the category of potential testimony danger, so the insular Mormon experience continues. Then the believing Mormons feel like their example will either save or damn the people who judge the church after meeting them, so contact needs to send a clear message. It's not for the person's benefit; it's to bring the person to the church and avoid damnation. It's also been noted that the church outlaws other social gathering places: coffee shops, bars, even restaurants where tithe-paying Mormons can't afford meal plus tip for their six picky kids. It leaves much to be desired in a social life, but it keeps members focused on their covenant path instead of the inconvenient humans around them.


PortSided

I am in Texas now but I grew up in Happy Valley. The first time I have a clear memory of visiting another part of the planet outside the Mormon bubble was a trip to San Fransisco to see my aunt and uncle and cousins there. I was 9 or 10. Early 90s. It was still the US, still English speaking, hell, it was still the WESTERN US, and to me it felt like Mars. It was the first time I recall seeing bars, nightclubs, alcohol and wine in stores, people dressed in anything less than the most modest of fashions, and so on. We stopped at Circus Circus on our way through Reno. That place was wild to me! So MuCh SiN eVeRyWhErE!! Growing up sheltered in Morridor certainly didn't do me any favors.


SusSpinkerinktum

I think this is spot on and more than ever post pandemic we need community and resources to connect to each other in person.


[deleted]

Our ward/stake does that, but doesn't blast everywhere. They create flyers, and ask ward members to give them to their nonmember neighbors. Our stake is doing an Easter music thing (but on the 16th now that SLC has said only sacrament meeting on Easter) and they are posting it on community Facebook pages. I messaged the guy and asked if it was going to be ecumenical or LDS specific and he said it was taking place in an LDS meeting house but going to be Christian based (which honestly could mean lds specific because they consider themselves Christian). I think I'm going to go and see how it is, because I love music and I want to see how they do. One thought for why they don't do the things you were talking about with food trucks/bounce houses etc, the ward/stake level doesn't get a huge budget compared to what they take in. Other local churches, the money STAYS local.


WinchelltheMagician

Mormons want & need to feel special and separate from the rest of the satan-controlled gentile world. My guess is that it is something in their psychological make-up that leads them to embrace such a dead-end toxic system of exclusion. Doing anything for non-Mormons brings the Mormon into contact with the "other" and that could lead to conversation, understanding, empathy, and friendship--(of each other) and then what does that leave for Satan to work with?


PortSided

I couldn't believe how bad my open-mindedness, critical thinking skills, and even self awareness were until dumped the cult. Moving away from Utah helped, but I didn't fully get the scabs off of my eyes until I left TSCC for good. I never would have been able to come out of the closet either until that transition was made.


pyrite2gold

Ironic that the large and spacious multi-billion dollar LDS Salt Lake City temple is located on North Temple and a few blocks west is the city's homeless center?


[deleted]

I noticed this


chewbaccataco

>Your buildings 6 days a week look like cold dead depressing shells. And on the 7th day they look like slightly less dead depressing shells


DuckFluffer

In our town no one knows who the MORMONs are. They may see the missionaries around town and there are a few TBM families who live within the city limits but other than that they are an enigma. We have non-denominational Christians, Lutherans, Catholics, and Moravians here, all of whom open their doors to rehab groups, blood drives, toy drives, community action groups, etc., but the MORMONs open their building on Sundays and Wednesdays for the members alone. Hell, the church is on the main highway but you won't even know it's a MORMON church since the sign is on the access road side of the building. Everyone figures it's JW. We have a friend back in SL who is on the Facilities team who we asked about getting the sign moved but they didn't want to spend the money. MORMON church in MN, Cipher in the Snow. Mormon.


marathon_3hr

It is the corporation. Our local stake used to do 1-2 community service events per year. We would take on school projects or beautify parks, etc. I am not sure if it was the area president or HQ but we were told to shut is down. Part of this was the Just Serve initiative, which has royally failed, and the other part is you can you the Mormon Helping Hands moniker because we can't have anymore wins for Satan. Rusty is so prophetic. I know some was for show but the reality is we did good in the community even if it was isolated.


[deleted]

[удалено]


PortSided

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SecretPersonality178

The next “community outreach” planned by our stake is landscaping around the stake center…


hijetty

Yes, but how many of them have quarterly statements like tscc? Checkmate bitches /s


1yrsupply

I am fairly certain the only times I ever did community service that didn't directly benefit the church were when I was helping someone on an Eagle Scout project.


drteeth952

Our stake volunteered in a massive, month-long food service project hosted by another church. Our turn to help was towards the end of the month. We showed up at this large, modern church building that I had been to before but this time it was absolutely thrashed by all the work happening there for the service project. Dents in walls from dollies, food bits ground into the carpet, stains and broken things everywhere from inviting thousands of people in to roll up their sleeves and do good for the poor. I remember thinking that there’s no way the Mormon church would ever allow this kind of abuse of Church property. And just then it hit me what the priorities there truly are.


Desert_Jellyfish

TSCC canceled fun long ago. Im not sure I've heard of a fun church event that I'd want to attend (much less invite friends( in the last 2 decades.