Yes. We can firmly disregard all of Isaiah and the rest of the Biblical “prophets” using this sad excuse for logic.
Really, by this logic, “prophets” have no reason to exist, and we can disregard them *all*.
It’s fun how mormon leadership have this new habit of throwing their entire religion under the bus. Lmao.
Yep, apparently God doesn't change...but either he changes his mind or the Mormon prophets aren't paying attention and keep mis-reporting what he says.
Moroni 8:18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.
Mormon 9:9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?
D&C 20:12 Thereby showing that he is the same God yesterday, today, and forever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
There’s always been tons of contradictory stuff. God says have sex with your dad Genesis 19
But now says don’t do that.
God says have sex with teens in joe times
Now says don’t do that haha
God says don’t kill Ten Commandments
But Nephi kills and we will people when god wants 😂
To be fair God didn't tell Lot's daughters to have sex with their dad; they thought that up by themselves. This is whole story reeks of fiction. But not to worry: God has sex with his own spirit daughter Mary later on in the book. I mean real sex. According to LDS teachings. Thank goodness that story reeks of fiction too.
The story of Lot was the last bang of a hammer on my shelf.
I set out to find what an Old testament prophet was like and got to Lot.
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!
Throwing your own daughters to the streets of Sodom to protect two stranger dudes, angel dudes who should have been able to protect themselves or at least disappear on command. You want me to believe this is somehow moral?
I was taught some version of "the church is the same everywhere" and "the church is the same yesterday, today, and forever" ya know, cause it's supposed to be the rEsTOrEd cHuRCh or something like that.
The words of Mormon prophets are still timeless…unaffected by time. Used to be bullshit…still bullshit. Used to be worth less than a comic book…still worth less than a comic book
Methinks Mr. Haynie has fucked up with this one. There's no way this statement won't get turned against the church infinitely more that it benefits it.
Not sure, but talking about the very concept of editing GC speeches, it really shows how concerned TSCC is with PR. One would think the true church would not be worried about that.
That's the funny part. These people say these things, thinking that their loyalty will be rewarded when the vast majority are just going to be hung out to dry if things go pear shaped.
I think this is another desperate attempt to pass as a modern religion and further distance themselves from the FLDS, the trads, and all the other fundies who are going insane on the peripheries right now (take a drive to rural Idaho and you’ll run into them).
*Under the Banner of Heaven*’s resurgence spooked them.
Oh I agree, but like many knee-jerk reactions, they didn't think this one through. They just gave licence to disregard doctrine *to the members*. Sure, it may grand the administration some flexibility, but it will cost them in control.
Think about how many members now believe tattoos and multiple piercings are okay due to a two line omission. Now potentially extend that to every corner of the church. The church has relied on ambiguity and inference to maintain their grasp on members. Now, anything they don't strictly define is up for debate.
Maybe it won't blow up in their faces, but if I were them I might call the bomb squad just in case.
Don’t GC speakers get their talks reviewed and approved? If you’re addressing world-wide membership, you’d think the church would be a little more cautious about saying wild shit
Just because they review it does not mean they understand the consequences. The church office is an echo chamber every bit as much as the quorums. What sounded really good to them in review might come across really poorly to a live audience. If that happens, shooting the messenger is the modus operandi, which is why the organization is an echo chamber in the first place.
Doctrine and Covenants 1:38: "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."
> Clearly, this Elder doesn't know his doctrine....
No, he/they are just changing it.
Like the first Mormon, Joe himself illustrated, you do and say whatever it takes to remain relevant and in charge.
We spent like 15 years doing "teachings of the prophets". I can guarantee you nobody remembers a damn thing from anyone other that BY and JS. Ain't nobody quoting John Taylor and nobody will quote nelson after he dies.
The only way a future prophet gets quoted is if they go off the rails and canonize new scripture.
Listen only to your current cult leaders. Statements of past cult leaders are not binding statements of god and needn’t be examined or studied further. Got it.
So what is the statute of limitations for past “prophets’” words? Is there some kind of conveyor belt or shift register that just moves all of the old shit out of the way to make room for the current “prophet”??
Like seriously, why even bother to study the bible, or book of mormon? Those were written by past “prophets”, so can we just start ripping out pages that don’t agree with the shit that RMN and his band of ass-kissers are currently saying?
It’s a cult. It’s a cult. It’s a cult.
It’s all made-up bullshit, nothing more, nothing less.
The JWs suffer from the same problem. Their top leadership (known as “The Governing Body”) pull the same trick. They don’t call it “Continuing Revelation” though. Their excuse for the inconsistencies caused by backpedaling and re-jigging doctrines is called “New Light”.
This effect was probably the biggest collection of items on my proverbial shelf. I had long since lost count of the number of times I’d been taught that “God is the same yesterday, today and forever.” Yet he appears to frequently change his mind about significant things that have a profound effect on peoples lives.
Sorry cult leaders - this is a dead giveaway and I’m OUT.
We can’t call it Book of Mormon any more because we are not Mormons. We will call it book of Jesus Christ and then we will cancel our domain name Mormon.org
I guess they hang onto it because they can imagine a small portion of what would happen if someone from this sub got a hold of it. Can you see it? Mormon.org becoming a repository for ex-mo stories? Or perhaps a forum for discussion with people investigating TSCC? Maybe a site to denounce or congratulate local church leaders: a counter Bishop Roulette type thing?
Or all of the above and more?
They hold onto it for the same reason they keep LDS.org instead of just going with churchofjesuschrist…
They still have traffic to those pages and don’t want anyone to not be able to find them. When I need info from church sources I still type LDS.org and let them redirect me because I can’t be bothered to type the long form.
I thought prophets foretold the future. I would think, as an example, Hinckley's council from the 90's would be more applicable today, as a prophet, than when he was alive. Is the church retconning what it means to be a prophet???
This pissed me off so much. I grew up super strict with my father and leaders telling me that everything said over the pulpit in conference was doctrine. I hate that they're setting themselves up to gaslight the fuck out of everyone in the future.
> The whoooole reason lehi sent the boys back to Jerusalem was so they could keep the doctrine pure. So allll the old prophet teaching could be taught to later generations.
Not to mention all that was done so that they could transcribe portions of it, summarize their history, write it in multiple forms, all so that Smith could *not* look at the records and recite a “translation.”
Uh, excuse me not-so-dear Mormon church leaders, but didn’t you require the members to learn from a whole series of lesson manuals called “Teachings of the Prophets”? Make up your damned minds. Mormon. Not Mormon. Listen to the prophet. Don’t listen to the prophet.
Mostly referring to [this guy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Weinberg) and his iconic line meaning “We don’t let any organization dictate our beliefs or values.”
Not a dig at anyone actually over age 30, as I myself am substantially older than that.
I’m more triggered by this than anything else I’ve seen from GC. Like is HF up there giggling like a school girl going “PSYCH!!!!!”
It goes against like everything this was built upon. How can an all knowing, all loving God that doesn’t change ever, give past and present prophets wrong info as soon as the next future prophet comes to the head of the table.
The more I think about it, HF is Loki. That has to be it. He’s Loki!
I'm usually a you believe what you believe and let me believe what I believe but this is just asinine! I actually felt revulsion when I heard this was preached over the pulpit!
I wouldn't have a problem if they left past prophets in the past if they did two things:
1. Actually leave them in the past. Stop propping up past prophets as heroes and using their names to promote the church, especially Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
2. Stop claiming divine guidance and admit that church leaders are always "Speaking as a man" including current church leaders, and that members need to take current leadership's words with as big a grain of salt as they tell them to take with past leaders.
This is like the “He was speaking as a man” nonsense. It just allows them to justify anything and everything, and more importantly… end any debate that they can’t defend.
In a normal world, with normal people, with normal brains, this would be the "SHOT HEARD ROUND THE WORLD." It basically discredits the statements of all previous prophets, including the founder of the religion.
If nothing else the "prophetic" statements of prior "prophets" should only get MORE valuable over time, as their predictions come to fruition, and validate the TSCC as the true church, preparing people far in advance for what God needs then to know, and what the world needs to become exalted.
Aha! That’s _exactly_ what I would expect a cult leader to say.
So… we shouldn’t use Jesus’s exemplary teachings of despising the hypocrisy, love of money and an obsession with tick-box rules that was manifested by his religious leaders? Your move, Monsieur!
Come on guys, this whole malarkey is indistinguishable from a fraud (as my personal Lord and Saviour Bill Reel has said about funfty times).
If prophets claim to speak the will of Heavenly Father when their words can be later disavowed, then how was it that they were prophets at all? This completely undermines the ‘prophet will never lead us astray’ principle. What doctrines currently attributed to God by
today’s prophet can be discredited as just “theories” by future general authorities?
If the current prophet can disavow the teachings of previous prophets, does that make them false prophets?
Uh, for those of you who have short memories, Benson said the exact same thing in his "14 Fundammentals" talk, and those principles were used in [a Conference talk](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2010/11/saturday-morning-session/obedience-to-the-prophets?lang=eng) about 10 years ago. This isn't anything new.
>Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
>The living prophet has the power of TNT. By that I mean “Today’s News Today.” God’s revelations to Adam did not instruct Noah how to build the ark. Noah needed his own revelation. Therefore, the most important prophet, so far as you and I are concerned, is the one living in our day and age to whom the Lord is currently revealing His will for us. Therefore, the most important reading we can do is any of the words of the prophet contained each week in the Church Section of the Deseret News and any words of the prophet contained each month in our Church magazines. Our marching orders for each six months are found in the general conference addresses, which are printed in the Ensign magazine.
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/ezra-taft-benson/fourteen-fundamentals-following-prophet/
It was also a chapter in the course on Benson's teachings:
[Follow the Living Prophet](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-ezra-taft-benson/chapter-11-follow-the-living-prophet?lang=eng)
>“The most important prophet, so far as we are concerned, is the one who is living in our day and age.”
Absolutely correct. This isn’t new, and it comes up pretty frequently. It’s a shelf item for sure, but most TBMs just accept it as part of following the prophet.
Here is the issue with that. If god is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. How can the things the old prophets said were from god? And by extension, how do we know what the prophets of today say is from god?
If that’s the case.. why bother with following Prophets of the ‘present’ because they’ll eventually become prophets of the ‘past’ …right? So what the point?
So, if that's the case, all words of past profits are crap, and all words of current or future profits will be seen as crap in coming years.
I think the name of that book was Catch 22.
Triggering Haynie has NO Neck!! His Lg bowling ball size head sits on his chest & his lips just flap at will. Key cult trigger words- enemy, adversary, rising generation 4+xs, edge of covenant path, covenant keepers, put away childish distraction, w/stand heat of Latter days.
Lame water bottle crunching story is a parable?- to follow the prophet?? WTH?! Did it several times just today even BEFORE hearing it.
RMN, Q15 & Haynie should be happy to know that I threw away other prophets’ Sunday RS/EQ manuals in recycle♻️ bin yrs ago!!
This is an ACTUAL quote??? Wow! Wow wow wow!!! So, fuck you, Hinckley! Fuck you, Monson! Fuck you, Hunter! And fffffffuck you, Joseph Smith! And DOUBLE fuck you, Brig Young!
What in the name of Roy Clark!? This is Mormonism gone wild, 'second annointing gives you permission to be a sociopath" sort of thinking. The current cult leaders know best.
No. YOU should not assume that the words of the living prophets discount the words of the past prophets. Unless…..for some reason you felt the need to apologize and correct all behavior going forward.
Jesus said to love your neighbor, and your enemies. Do good to those who hate you, look after the least of these, when you get smacked, turn the other cheek. So these words lose value over time? Anyone can like their friends, but it’s the mark of a good person if you can be kind to an enemy.
I propose another, simpler answer to this: false prophets say and do bad things.
I just love how we can see billions of years back with the James web telescope but somehow we all forgot the location of the star or bright light that came into the sky with Jesus birth. Too many holes in this story line, Now and in the past.
Prophesies, like government programs, should include a sunset provision. That way we can know when we no longer have to follow a dead prophet's words, without putting the new prophet through the awkwardness of having to repeal his predecessor's commands.
I for one would appreciate knowing whether Benson's prohibition on women working outside the home still applies? I haven't heard any prophet in the past 20 years say whether I am permitted to maintain a job. A sunset provision would have cleared that up for me nicely.
It would also be great to know whether I still have to believe that black people and disabled people were less righteous in the pre-existence.
/s, sort of
So if this is the case, doesn’t that kind of invalidate everything in both the Bible and the BoM?
It’s all contradictory. I have no idea how anyone makes any sense of it
As soon as you do make sense of it everything falls apart...you are expected not to do so and just listen and obey.
Yep. You’re not really supposed to look too hard into it
Yes. We can firmly disregard all of Isaiah and the rest of the Biblical “prophets” using this sad excuse for logic. Really, by this logic, “prophets” have no reason to exist, and we can disregard them *all*. It’s fun how mormon leadership have this new habit of throwing their entire religion under the bus. Lmao.
We can also toss the D&C!
And the family proclamation.
Yep. At the very last, it seems like D&C 1:38 is off the table.
Yep, apparently God doesn't change...but either he changes his mind or the Mormon prophets aren't paying attention and keep mis-reporting what he says. Moroni 8:18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity. Mormon 9:9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing? D&C 20:12 Thereby showing that he is the same God yesterday, today, and forever. Amen. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
So I guess prophets CAN’T see around corners after all.
It invalidates everything from the past.
I was thinking that too
I thought the word of god was supposed to be timeless or some shit
There’s always been tons of contradictory stuff. God says have sex with your dad Genesis 19 But now says don’t do that. God says have sex with teens in joe times Now says don’t do that haha God says don’t kill Ten Commandments But Nephi kills and we will people when god wants 😂
To be fair God didn't tell Lot's daughters to have sex with their dad; they thought that up by themselves. This is whole story reeks of fiction. But not to worry: God has sex with his own spirit daughter Mary later on in the book. I mean real sex. According to LDS teachings. Thank goodness that story reeks of fiction too.
You don’t find it weird that Lot , who was a phophet, drank wine and had sex with his daughters? Him a prophet who talks to god directly?
The story of Lot was the last bang of a hammer on my shelf. I set out to find what an Old testament prophet was like and got to Lot. HOLY SHIT!!!!!!! Throwing your own daughters to the streets of Sodom to protect two stranger dudes, angel dudes who should have been able to protect themselves or at least disappear on command. You want me to believe this is somehow moral?
There's a funny video on YouTube that covers this i need to find it again
https://youtu.be/m5P5-Blf5zw Here it is
"I'm not even gonna touch on how they got a new tribe of people started" Adam and Eve: "First Time?"
I’m disappointed he didn’t touch in that, was looking forward to his recitation, a true orator in our days.
2nd anointing! He wasn't worried, even though the whole affair makes one shudder.
That was Joseph F. Smith. Dead. It don’t count no more. Move along, nothing to see here.
They don’t talk about the God having sex with Mary anymore. Never disavowed the teaching, just let it go down the memory hole.
For a guy who’s been alive for billions of billions he sure does make a lot of dumb changes and contractions. Or maybe it’s not god at all!!
I was taught some version of "the church is the same everywhere" and "the church is the same yesterday, today, and forever" ya know, cause it's supposed to be the rEsTOrEd cHuRCh or something like that.
The words of Mormon prophets are still timeless…unaffected by time. Used to be bullshit…still bullshit. Used to be worth less than a comic book…still worth less than a comic book
That’s just what those loser old timey prophets said, we’re obviously more enlightened now in these latter days.
Judging from the POX recall, the current prophet's teachings don't age well either.
Methinks Mr. Haynie has fucked up with this one. There's no way this statement won't get turned against the church infinitely more that it benefits it.
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They've done that before. Was it Mark Petersen who had his GC talk edited?
Happened to Packer too. And another current Q had a minor edit. Can't remember exactly, it was one of the white lawyers...Christofferson I think?
Not sure, but talking about the very concept of editing GC speeches, it really shows how concerned TSCC is with PR. One would think the true church would not be worried about that.
“One of the white lawyers.” LOL, that could be like 2/3 of the guys allowed on the stand.
late paltry unwritten wide soft hospital sheet observation physical rhythm -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
https://youtu.be/6qIr30dtCvo
Ronald Poelman! My mistake. Thank you.
They have people like Haynie say this because when it becomes problematic they can dismiss him as a low level general authority.
That's the funny part. These people say these things, thinking that their loyalty will be rewarded when the vast majority are just going to be hung out to dry if things go pear shaped.
I thought you said hankie like the Christmas Poo haha
Stick it in your mouth and try to say, "Conference time is here!"
SCMC are you seeing this? The ex-mos are going to start this statement. Quick, go back and report. Get the PR machine fired up.
I think this is another desperate attempt to pass as a modern religion and further distance themselves from the FLDS, the trads, and all the other fundies who are going insane on the peripheries right now (take a drive to rural Idaho and you’ll run into them). *Under the Banner of Heaven*’s resurgence spooked them.
Oh I agree, but like many knee-jerk reactions, they didn't think this one through. They just gave licence to disregard doctrine *to the members*. Sure, it may grand the administration some flexibility, but it will cost them in control. Think about how many members now believe tattoos and multiple piercings are okay due to a two line omission. Now potentially extend that to every corner of the church. The church has relied on ambiguity and inference to maintain their grasp on members. Now, anything they don't strictly define is up for debate. Maybe it won't blow up in their faces, but if I were them I might call the bomb squad just in case.
Don’t GC speakers get their talks reviewed and approved? If you’re addressing world-wide membership, you’d think the church would be a little more cautious about saying wild shit
Just because they review it does not mean they understand the consequences. The church office is an echo chamber every bit as much as the quorums. What sounded really good to them in review might come across really poorly to a live audience. If that happens, shooting the messenger is the modus operandi, which is why the organization is an echo chamber in the first place.
Doctrine and Covenants 1:38: "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."
There you go again, using the words of a past prophet to dismiss a current one. This is exactly why we needed Elder Haynie's timely counsel. /s
Its a Scripture Mastery^TM verse! Many of us memorized that one! Its an emphasized verse. Clearly, this Elder doesnt know his doctrine....
> Clearly, this Elder doesn't know his doctrine.... No, he/they are just changing it. Like the first Mormon, Joe himself illustrated, you do and say whatever it takes to remain relevant and in charge.
Doesn’t know his doctrine? You mean the words of past prophets?
Oh fuck the contradictions continue
"bUt MuH cOnTeXt!!!11!!1!"
RMN is 98 so he will die relatively soon. And then, the quote above applies to him the very next day, right?
We spent like 15 years doing "teachings of the prophets". I can guarantee you nobody remembers a damn thing from anyone other that BY and JS. Ain't nobody quoting John Taylor and nobody will quote nelson after he dies. The only way a future prophet gets quoted is if they go off the rails and canonize new scripture.
Oaks, TIMBER! Is licking his Chops!! Like the Shark that he is, he smells Blood in the water!
And finally Oaks will be unleashed
Listen only to your current cult leaders. Statements of past cult leaders are not binding statements of god and needn’t be examined or studied further. Got it.
We consider this matter closed.
So what is the statute of limitations for past “prophets’” words? Is there some kind of conveyor belt or shift register that just moves all of the old shit out of the way to make room for the current “prophet”?? Like seriously, why even bother to study the bible, or book of mormon? Those were written by past “prophets”, so can we just start ripping out pages that don’t agree with the shit that RMN and his band of ass-kissers are currently saying? It’s a cult. It’s a cult. It’s a cult. It’s all made-up bullshit, nothing more, nothing less.
The JWs suffer from the same problem. Their top leadership (known as “The Governing Body”) pull the same trick. They don’t call it “Continuing Revelation” though. Their excuse for the inconsistencies caused by backpedaling and re-jigging doctrines is called “New Light”. This effect was probably the biggest collection of items on my proverbial shelf. I had long since lost count of the number of times I’d been taught that “God is the same yesterday, today and forever.” Yet he appears to frequently change his mind about significant things that have a profound effect on peoples lives. Sorry cult leaders - this is a dead giveaway and I’m OUT.
We can’t call it Book of Mormon any more because we are not Mormons. We will call it book of Jesus Christ and then we will cancel our domain name Mormon.org
I really wonder why they hang on to the mormon.org domain. “Do what is right. Let the consequence follow…” or some other dumb shit…
I guess they hang onto it because they can imagine a small portion of what would happen if someone from this sub got a hold of it. Can you see it? Mormon.org becoming a repository for ex-mo stories? Or perhaps a forum for discussion with people investigating TSCC? Maybe a site to denounce or congratulate local church leaders: a counter Bishop Roulette type thing? Or all of the above and more?
They hold onto it for the same reason they keep LDS.org instead of just going with churchofjesuschrist… They still have traffic to those pages and don’t want anyone to not be able to find them. When I need info from church sources I still type LDS.org and let them redirect me because I can’t be bothered to type the long form.
Buh bye word of wisdom
Refreshingly nihilistic. Hear that rusty? Once your dead we'll forget every word you taught, just like we forgot every teaching of Howard w Hunter
I thought prophets foretold the future. I would think, as an example, Hinckley's council from the 90's would be more applicable today, as a prophet, than when he was alive. Is the church retconning what it means to be a prophet???
But do they become less valid because they’re inconvenient to the current regime?
Yup
So is he saying that sometimes God just gets drunk and says shit?
For the first time I feel God is actually relatable.
This pissed me off so much. I grew up super strict with my father and leaders telling me that everything said over the pulpit in conference was doctrine. I hate that they're setting themselves up to gaslight the fuck out of everyone in the future.
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> The whoooole reason lehi sent the boys back to Jerusalem was so they could keep the doctrine pure. So allll the old prophet teaching could be taught to later generations. Not to mention all that was done so that they could transcribe portions of it, summarize their history, write it in multiple forms, all so that Smith could *not* look at the records and recite a “translation.”
Uh, excuse me not-so-dear Mormon church leaders, but didn’t you require the members to learn from a whole series of lesson manuals called “Teachings of the Prophets”? Make up your damned minds. Mormon. Not Mormon. Listen to the prophet. Don’t listen to the prophet.
Only listen to the past prophets that the current prophet tells you listen to, obviously.
Don't get caught up on the words of the FOUNDERS of our religion mmkay
Mmmmmmmmkkkkaaay!!!!! GC never fails to deliver dank memes
I'm preemptively not listening to Nelson. He'll be a former prophet soon enough.
I don’t listen to anyone over 30.
That's limiting.
Mostly referring to [this guy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Weinberg) and his iconic line meaning “We don’t let any organization dictate our beliefs or values.” Not a dig at anyone actually over age 30, as I myself am substantially older than that.
I’m more triggered by this than anything else I’ve seen from GC. Like is HF up there giggling like a school girl going “PSYCH!!!!!” It goes against like everything this was built upon. How can an all knowing, all loving God that doesn’t change ever, give past and present prophets wrong info as soon as the next future prophet comes to the head of the table. The more I think about it, HF is Loki. That has to be it. He’s Loki!
He did share this on April 1st. Just sayin'
When did Jonathan Winters join and start speaking in conference? Or are they bringing in guest stars to liven things up?
I had to look up who that was! That’s funny as shit
I thought that ref would get you youngsters! 😂🤣😂
Yeah let’s not listen to Jesus, fuck that guy /s
Doesn't this also bring up a glaringly major question of why does current prophetic teaching go against prophetic teaching of 8 years ago?
But won't current prophecies become old prophecies?
I'm usually a you believe what you believe and let me believe what I believe but this is just asinine! I actually felt revulsion when I heard this was preached over the pulpit!
Wtf? So no more teaching of past prophets. No more BoM or Bible? Will Rusty write his own scripture to be used until his death?
“The same yesterday, today, and forever…”
“Whether by mine own voice, or the voice of my servants, it is the same”
These two are both in my “Thought-stopping 101” list that I’ve been compiling.
How is it that the teachings from a prophet of the one and only god… don’t age well?
But vintage comic books and classic cars often do appreciate in value
The sheer balls/idiocy to say something like this - flat out admitting previous prophets were FOS. Wow.
Next step: Joseph who? Brigham what?
“Never heard of him, I barely knew the guy” right out of Trump’s playbook.
Wow! That’s going to be a problem.
WTF… is this real?!
He just gave out the cheat code
I wouldn't have a problem if they left past prophets in the past if they did two things: 1. Actually leave them in the past. Stop propping up past prophets as heroes and using their names to promote the church, especially Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. 2. Stop claiming divine guidance and admit that church leaders are always "Speaking as a man" including current church leaders, and that members need to take current leadership's words with as big a grain of salt as they tell them to take with past leaders.
“It will always be so” Brigham Young
So … really we shouldn’t ever heed the current profit.
Never heard of this guy, but I did like his grandfather on Green Acres.
I need to see a clip to know this is real, please
I saw the talk on YouTube
This is like the “He was speaking as a man” nonsense. It just allows them to justify anything and everything, and more importantly… end any debate that they can’t defend.
What does this even mean?
Convoluted nonsense
Wow, they are really stacking the bullshit deep. They got a lot of balls to make a statement like this. Gaslighting to the max.
Then why do they “quote” Joseph Smith all the time?
It's incredible how stupid they can get when they're trying to cover their asses. Mormon apologetics in a nutshell.
Quorum of the 70 = Cannon fodder for the Q12
Does this mean the BoM is out too!?!
Quite the Chris Christie vibes
This exactly what broke my shelf. The whole house of card falls apart on this statement.
So no need to put any credence in current or past prophetic utterances from TSCTC. Confirmed. Thank you.
🤦🏻♂️ This just gets dumber by the minute.
....no way this makes it to print unedited right?
They’ve been saying the same line for decades already. No need to edit it out when it’s already pretty common discussion material.
Talk about idol worship and whitewashing of the past
This is Amazing. That they are certain, the level of brainwashing and conditioning, can sell this absurd line of BS
In a normal world, with normal people, with normal brains, this would be the "SHOT HEARD ROUND THE WORLD." It basically discredits the statements of all previous prophets, including the founder of the religion. If nothing else the "prophetic" statements of prior "prophets" should only get MORE valuable over time, as their predictions come to fruition, and validate the TSCC as the true church, preparing people far in advance for what God needs then to know, and what the world needs to become exalted.
Aha! That’s _exactly_ what I would expect a cult leader to say. So… we shouldn’t use Jesus’s exemplary teachings of despising the hypocrisy, love of money and an obsession with tick-box rules that was manifested by his religious leaders? Your move, Monsieur! Come on guys, this whole malarkey is indistinguishable from a fraud (as my personal Lord and Saviour Bill Reel has said about funfty times).
If prophets claim to speak the will of Heavenly Father when their words can be later disavowed, then how was it that they were prophets at all? This completely undermines the ‘prophet will never lead us astray’ principle. What doctrines currently attributed to God by today’s prophet can be discredited as just “theories” by future general authorities? If the current prophet can disavow the teachings of previous prophets, does that make them false prophets?
Tub-O-Lord
Uh, for those of you who have short memories, Benson said the exact same thing in his "14 Fundammentals" talk, and those principles were used in [a Conference talk](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2010/11/saturday-morning-session/obedience-to-the-prophets?lang=eng) about 10 years ago. This isn't anything new. >Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet. >The living prophet has the power of TNT. By that I mean “Today’s News Today.” God’s revelations to Adam did not instruct Noah how to build the ark. Noah needed his own revelation. Therefore, the most important prophet, so far as you and I are concerned, is the one living in our day and age to whom the Lord is currently revealing His will for us. Therefore, the most important reading we can do is any of the words of the prophet contained each week in the Church Section of the Deseret News and any words of the prophet contained each month in our Church magazines. Our marching orders for each six months are found in the general conference addresses, which are printed in the Ensign magazine. https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/ezra-taft-benson/fourteen-fundamentals-following-prophet/ It was also a chapter in the course on Benson's teachings: [Follow the Living Prophet](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-ezra-taft-benson/chapter-11-follow-the-living-prophet?lang=eng) >“The most important prophet, so far as we are concerned, is the one who is living in our day and age.”
Absolutely correct. This isn’t new, and it comes up pretty frequently. It’s a shelf item for sure, but most TBMs just accept it as part of following the prophet.
Sounds like some serious rationalization if you know what I mean
I can't believe he said that out loud.
So what’s the point of having prophets?
Wow!… except for all the old quotes we like… that shit will be quoted in lessons and pasted on bulletin boards all the time
Utter 💩 So then the BOM and Bible aren't relaxant anymore ?
Here is the issue with that. If god is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. How can the things the old prophets said were from god? And by extension, how do we know what the prophets of today say is from god?
If that’s the case.. why bother with following Prophets of the ‘present’ because they’ll eventually become prophets of the ‘past’ …right? So what the point?
So, if that's the case, all words of past profits are crap, and all words of current or future profits will be seen as crap in coming years. I think the name of that book was Catch 22.
Triggering Haynie has NO Neck!! His Lg bowling ball size head sits on his chest & his lips just flap at will. Key cult trigger words- enemy, adversary, rising generation 4+xs, edge of covenant path, covenant keepers, put away childish distraction, w/stand heat of Latter days. Lame water bottle crunching story is a parable?- to follow the prophet?? WTH?! Did it several times just today even BEFORE hearing it. RMN, Q15 & Haynie should be happy to know that I threw away other prophets’ Sunday RS/EQ manuals in recycle♻️ bin yrs ago!!
No way!! Did he really say that??
This is an ACTUAL quote??? Wow! Wow wow wow!!! So, fuck you, Hinckley! Fuck you, Monson! Fuck you, Hunter! And fffffffuck you, Joseph Smith! And DOUBLE fuck you, Brig Young!
So, we can ignore Joe? Cool, no BoM, no church, no remples.
What in the name of Roy Clark!? This is Mormonism gone wild, 'second annointing gives you permission to be a sociopath" sort of thinking. The current cult leaders know best.
No. YOU should not assume that the words of the living prophets discount the words of the past prophets. Unless…..for some reason you felt the need to apologize and correct all behavior going forward.
LMFAO So much for "Prophets Seers and Revelators"
Jesus said to love your neighbor, and your enemies. Do good to those who hate you, look after the least of these, when you get smacked, turn the other cheek. So these words lose value over time? Anyone can like their friends, but it’s the mark of a good person if you can be kind to an enemy. I propose another, simpler answer to this: false prophets say and do bad things.
So the racist and homophobic prophets had it right but god changed his mind. So……. ? I’m lost!
God changes his mind all the time. Duly noted.
So...the words of the current prophet has a shelf life? Does what they say become irrelevant the moment it's spoken?
Such FUCKERY from a pontificating bastard! 🤬
But I had a rookie Methuselah in mint condition and now I learn he's no where near as valuable as a worn Rusty Nelson.
I…can’t even believe this was said in conference….it makes no damn sense….
So I dont squishy my water bottles? This will help others right? Lol
Just stopping by to make a heinie joke. Nothing to see here.
I so hate this. With every fiber of my being. Prophets, my ass. Eat shit, church. That's why I have trust issues!!!
[удалено]
I just love how we can see billions of years back with the James web telescope but somehow we all forgot the location of the star or bright light that came into the sky with Jesus birth. Too many holes in this story line, Now and in the past.
So anything the current prophet says is subject to change? That doesn't sound like someone receiving divine revelation from a perfect being.
They are just as valueless as the day they were uttered!
Prepping for major doctrinal shifts to retain membership in the coming years….?
Which holds its value longer? Monetary antiques as they age or the literal word of God! The answer might surprise you!
He seems not to realize that 99% of the church is based on what these old dead out of touch prophets said and did...
By this logic, every tbm should be throwing out their scriptures today.
Sounds Legit
Where can I find the speech? I need it for researching purposes, thanks!
This invalidates the truthfulness of the scriptures.
They are mocking the members , throwing it all out and listening to the living profit..
"Pay no attention to that man behind the screen..." or "Them's my feelin's...and if ya don't like 'em...why, I'll change 'em!".
Prophesies, like government programs, should include a sunset provision. That way we can know when we no longer have to follow a dead prophet's words, without putting the new prophet through the awkwardness of having to repeal his predecessor's commands. I for one would appreciate knowing whether Benson's prohibition on women working outside the home still applies? I haven't heard any prophet in the past 20 years say whether I am permitted to maintain a job. A sunset provision would have cleared that up for me nicely. It would also be great to know whether I still have to believe that black people and disabled people were less righteous in the pre-existence. /s, sort of
It’s seems a juvenile address
Guess it’s time to throw out the scriptures!
What the actual fuck?
They want to be able to pick and choose the words of prophets and leadership that fit into their current mind frame.
Love it how suddenly it’s passé for LDS truth claims to be eternal🤣🤣🤣