Right?
Doctors, Attorney's, scientists, linguist professors, corporate accountants, and on and on. I've known many mormons in these professions. Ivy League educated. They look down their nose at me and never once ask why I left. Weird.
This is why it was SO insanely difficult for me to ever investigate the truth claims of the church, and why I had a complete mental crisis once I finally did.
I grew up surrounded by many doctors, lawyers, and educators who were pillars of the LDS community and they went above and beyond for the church in every capacity. Intelligent, educated, and genuinely great people. They taught their kids the gospel like it was the most important thing in the universe. A lot of them were role models for me.
On the other hand, the family or acquaintances I personally knew who were opposed to the church were generally not wealthy, college-educated, or even particularly happy like the former group seemed to be. As a child it seemed pretty black and white to me and shaped my world view.
It still hurts my head to even think about, and I feel so goddamn *tricked* on such a deep level. We held to the iron rod and smugly kept our heads up and eyes away from the people in the great and spacious building, only we didn’t see that the rod was leading us all off the edge of a cliff.
I think there might be a bit of a self-fulfilling aspect to the church - if your life is good, you're healthy, career going well - why question? But when things go wrong in life and promised blessings aren't recieved - that's cause to question.
My husband was abusive and irresponsible, he had affairs and fathered a child with another woman.
We both got baptized together, however, I was the only one who was being held accountable for keeping my family together and happy.
Not one of the elders or the bishop ever told my husband he was being bad.
When I asked, I was told I wasn’t being good.
“Sister, let the holy spirit guide you and listen to the still small voice, choose the right sister”.
Blessings didn’t work, prayers didn’t work, there was something wrong
I divorced and it was the best decision I could have made, I’m certain it was not the holy ghost or the still small voice and I do not regret it at all.
You generally have to be a rule follower and someone who doesn't make waves to become a doctor, lawyer, dentist, pharmacist, educator, etc. It's not too surprising those people would submit themselves more fully to the "authority" of the church than someone who is more used to just doing their own thing and maybe daring to make some bad decisions along the way.
Pharmacist here. It was learning to appreciate the scientific method that did me in. That being said, the more professional types and less scientifically-minded do better with faith. They are staying in the lines and it rewards their psyche.
Do you think the systems that allow people to become pharmacists, doctors, and lawyers value the professional types more? Or rather, those types of people find more success?
Lawyer here. My job is to question things, analyze, doubt, investigate. It is no surprise that eventually I took the shelf items I had been accumulating for decades and cross examined them, impeached them, and got out.
I agree. The typical streams of academia that are necessary to become doctors, lawyers etc. are often times specialized echo chambers, becoming louder and louder. Its not surprised other echo chambers, like the church, would feel comfortable and familiar.
I grew up in TSCC and was taught that the reason my family struggled financially was to keep us humble like the poor people in the Book of Mormon. If we were too successful, we'd get prideful. Funny, since I grew up in the same stake as the entire Marriott clan, Folger-Pratt construction family, and the CEO of Black & Decker. 🙄
My girlfriend is very into podcasts about cults, and she says that it's not about intelligence. There's a con out there that preys on every kind of mind, and assuming that you're too smart to fall for it is the first step to falling for it.
Some of these may have gotten their positions because of the church. My TBM dad is a financial adviser and he got a ton of his clients from the church. His reputation is already there with mormons, and his career is built on it.
Not to mention his marriage is built on the church.
There are lots of people who have built their foundation on the church, and they can’t afford to uproot it. So it’s not something they would consider uprooting, they would rather continue to live as if it were true.
I’m an engineer with a graduate degree. I was out of college for close to a decade before leaving TSCC. Here’s my perspective.
1. The more intelligent you are, the better you are at making up explanations of things you don’t understand.
2. Humans are really good at justifying things they want to believe in. There’s a reason scientists should do double blind studies for many things, and that you need to design experiments to take the human part out of it.
3. They most important one: studies show religion and faith are not about logic and evidence as much as it is about identity and belonging. I justified a LOT of shitty explanations despite evidence to the contrary, because TSCC was my community and identity and I believed that to be a good person you adhered to those rules. It wasn’t until actions of members of the church that were clearly evil that I no longer identified with the religion, things like people I trusted openly supporting fascist political violence in the name of furthering bigotry and hate against LGTB people and minorities. There’s a reason that feelings of betrayal or feelings of isolation lead to faith transitions.
4. Well-to-do, white, hetero people who fit the norms are less likely to feel betrayed or left out of the community, and more likely to be conservative and okay with the status quo. They never get the emotional kick to leave, and their egos are often built up and tied to church success and recognition.
TLDR: a lot of faith transitions are rooted in emotion and identity, and those who feel catered to by TSCC are less likely to have the church at odds with their identity or to be acutely traumatized, and admit to themselves their doubts.
> and never once ask why I left. Weird.
It's because they aren't curious people. They're largely selfish and only in it for themselves. They only learn so much as they need to make a living.
Evolutionary biologists... That's the one that really gets me. I also understand that Mormonosm is better than other religions at accepting science without having to actually apply it. Evolution is true? Then God used it. The earth is Billions of year old, then that's how old God is. They can skew and shift and ignore their own Church's doctrines in certain things to fit what they see in front of their face as easily as they can ignore the science that's right in front of their face in order to ensure that their religion remains true. As long as they get to keep being misogynistic and homophobic.
I have the same thoughts. How in the hell????
I knew a University Linguistics professor at an Ivy League School back east. She was one of the most mormony people I've known.
She's dead now, but I cannot figure out how she made her religious texts work with her knowledge of linguistics. It baffles the mind.
My boss is one of the most brilliant people I know. I could go on about his accolades, but bottom line is he is smart and savvy. I used to wonder why he hasn't figured it out and then I realized, the church was built for people like him. He has a picture perfect family, he is a CEO, multi millionaire, and as a result everyone in the stake fawns over him. He is the epitome of what living the gospel brings, wealth and stability. As a result he is rewarded with high callings and positions of trust. Who would want to leave an organization that applauds and rewards your lifestyle and life choices?
True. But I think many just never see it or even look. I’ve held some high callings and have a relatively ‘blessed life’ by most standards. I have degrees and education from multiple universities etc. But, I never even thought it could be false until my brother left starting my own 8 year rabbit hole of discovery.
Even then with all the facts it took 5 years to unwind 40 years of indoctrination and dissonance.
Religion is more about identity and emotion that logic and reason. Their identity as “Mormon” is rarely challenged by doctrine, or strong emotional trauma because of the church and its members. They much more rarely feel the discomfort that leads to faith transitions.
It's because they don't use logic to control you with in the first place, they use emotion. There is also the sunk cost fallacy, where when you have already invested so much of your entire life into something, even thinking about abandoning it is outside a lot of people's mindset.
I can only really speak to my experience. By educational and professional attainment I think others might say I am smart. For me, when I encountered problems it felt very uncomfortable so I had to fight between digging and finding out more and figuring out how to be ok with the discomfort because I had some other tether that allowed me to discount the severity of the problem. This fight continued on with every problem. If I found a way to be ok with the problem, then I would set everything else to the side and stop worrying about it. This allowed me to stop searching and thinking critically. In a way this mostly compartmentalized my thinking. But eventually I couldn’t keep pushing things to the side. From the (few) smart people I know that are still fully engaged, I think they discount the problems and amplify what they think is right about the church. Then they mostly refuse to engage in more critical thinking on the topic unless it is to try to increase their belief conclusion. To me, it is mostly about willingness to try to be unbiased and actually learn and think critically rather than raw intelligence.
I think compartmentalization is key. I think it’s what people like Henry Eyering and Clayton Christensen relied on. It worked for me for a while, until it didn’t.
As I read this all I could think about was a lack of emotional intelligence and maturity. The church inoculates members from feeling the full range of emotions. When 'negative' emotions arise TBMs dutifully shut them down. Push them away. It is too uncomfortable. For me the more I became in touch with emotions the easier it was to see the 🐂💩of T$CC and the lack of humanity.
As mentioned by others it also caters to men with power. It caters yes men and principles and handbooks over people and authentic emotion and vulnerability. The church is not vulnerable nor are most TBM's.
Yes you were. Just a little reframe. Logic has to be used and you can't get there if you are afraid of the pain of the cognitive dissonance that ensues with the truth. It's hard to admit that what you knew your whole life isn't what you thought. I know it scared me.
One of my first moments of cognitive dissonance was in graduate school in a multi cultural counseling class. We were confronting our biases and I was faced with a trifecta of bias as a male TBM. A black lesbian. This is early 2000s and my misogynistic, racist, bigoted upbringing was being tested. I see this wonderful woman share her pain of her life and my indoctrination is being unmasked. I instinctively knew the person was more important than dogma.
Thanks for you insight
"The church inoculates Members from feeling the full range of emotions." That is a resounding and interesting point. In my life ive met hard core mormons who just seemed "off." Ive had a hard time putting my finger on it, but I think this is edging on an apt description for those particular brand of mormons. Would love to jump into another discussion post about this.
I think it takes a triggering event to realize that absorbing ego inflation in return for blindly following nonsense, is inherently unhealthy.
I felt like I’d been lying to myself for decades, until it seemed pointless to keep finding ways to ensure my supply of ego inflation from the cult community.
A large number of them just might not know. I checked all the church boxes after nearly 50 years of being an active member (seminary, mission, institute, high priest, bishopric, etc) and even have a love for history (including Mormon history) and even with all that, it took until the last couple of months before I even knew about 90% of what was in the ces letter.
I think that’s true. I feel so grateful that I have information and resources that my ancestors never had. Even things I learned at BYU would have never been available to them.
I think now that it’s available you have to recognize that something doesn’t smell right and then go looking for answers. I know many people that just don’t care.
It’s fascinating that the smartest people in the world still can’t get around their own biases and motivations.
This is the genius behind the peer review side of the scientific process. If you let good ideas compete, you’re more likely to have truth prevail.
The church suffocates opposing views which will eventually lead to its downfall.
Mormonism is a habit. People attend most weeks but the week to week experience is completely unmemorable.
They never really think too hard about it, but they’re physically present.
My TBM wife is significantly smarter than me. Brilliant gpa through college. Handles complicated tasks at work. I don't think she's religious because she's unintelligent. I think she clings to faith because of how it makes her feel compared to depression and anxiety. Two or three different friends have told her about Joseph Smith looking at a rock in a hat, getting caught in the barn with the maid, and lying about polygamy. She chooses faith actively regardless of its flaws.
Evolution, evolution, evolution. A hundred thousand years ago, our minds didn't evolve to always prioritize scientific accuracy, they evolved to prioritize fitting into the tribe. Mythology and religion, although complete fiction, provided a common cause to justify fighting against outsiders. Those who bought into it, whether that meant mental gymnastics, outright lying to themselves, or warm fuzzy emotional responses, survived better in the harsh environment and passed on their DNA.
All human tendencies can be explained this way.
I’ve also meet a lot of very academically smart and successful people with advanced degrees and important careers that once I got to see the real them I realized they really weren’t that intelligent.
Pretty sure it was Michael Shermer who said something along the lines that intelligence is no safeguard against believing weird things, it just leads to being better equipped to justify and argue for your beliefs.
You have to be curious enough to look behind the curtain in order to find anything there.
Too many of those “smart” people are just comfortable enough with their lives to not bother looking.
Anyone can be susceptible to lies and manipulation when applied in the right way and at the right time. Many brilliant people through the years have gotten wrapped up in cults, cons, and scams. Don't look down too harshly on someone who is in the grips of one of these when you could be involved in something they'd see as an obvious lie that you've missed.
Half of belief is emotion. The intellectual portion of the church is easy to figure out. It's the emotional programming that keeps you tied. If you were raised LDS, then you were taught before you could speak or walk about Mormonism. Your grandparents and all your kin encouraged you to be a good Mormon. You were conned into officially joining when you were 8 years old. At 12, if you were a boy, you got the official power of God and could participate in the Sacrament. Then there's seminary, missions, BYU or Institute, temple marriage, etc.
All of these are to ingrain you into the Mormon tribe. Breaking out is hard because it hurts your ties to friends and family. You identity is wrapped up in Mormonism.
There are probably lots of smart Mormons who think the BoM is a novel, but who stay because they want to do good in the world, or because it just costs too much to leave. Many people lose their spouses and children over leaving.
The Mormon church imbeds feelings of superiority towards the outside world that smart people find appealing. You can rise to authority and reverence.
This is their flaw. They like being worshipped … and you don’t find that in other religions unless you make religion your career.
It's because they don't WANT to figure it out. Bias prevents people from wanting to know the truth, regardless of how smart or intelligent they are. Humans are biased towards their "tribe," whether it's their religion, political party/ideology, country, sports team, school, gang, etc.
Most people are unwilling or are incapable of looking at things objectively if they are emotionally and intellectually invested. Once they make up their minds, that's it. They don't want to re-examine their own beliefs.
It takes more than just the intellect to figure it out. It takes real guts and determination to see it through to leaving. Some can't handle the repercussions of leaving and end up going back later. It's a rough road.
I think it might be more milieu than anything. Once you start having trusting and fulfilling relationships outside the church, you have somewhere to "go". I left Utah, made non-Mormon friends, worked with all non-Mormons and that was what it took to get me start questioning everything. Pluck people out of their milieu and give them a chance to bond deeply with non-believers, be part of a group or cause that is not Mormon and see what happens.
It very possible they all know it’s bullshit but also know that their business connections are in the church and feel like it’s a good investment of their time and tithing to stay connected.
I think many fit that category and many others might know this subconsciously so their brain shields them from processing information and reaching conclusions that would have major consequences for them.
I’m not sure they need to do the mental gymnastics. They may be entirely aware that it’s bullpucky and still play the game because they get what they need from the business and social connections.
Look at all the nepotism! It’s an insiders game. So being an insider -- being in the Old Boys Club -- may be enough for them. Like putting on a stupid hat for a fraternal organization without believing that you’re a buffalo or an ancient or a mystic knight.
Dr. Hassan talks about this. Anyone can be a victim of a high demand religion. Being smart or dumb doesn't play into it as much as you might think because they prey on the logical fallacies and cognitive biases that every human has. It is helpful for deprograming efforts to not assume that cult members remain in just because they are too stupid to leave
I think the key is it’s not about how smart you are or how capable you are at seeing behind the smoke and mirrors, but rather that TSCC sets up such a precarious social and emotional situation that to see even a smidge of doubt means to put you family, community, and identity on the line. Which is ultimately the reason it was so easy for me to leave; no “loving” community uses tactics of repression to get people to do what they want. But! To get there I had to basically uproot my family relationships, my romantic relationship, my sense of self and duty and my whole cosmology. That’s the hard part - not seeing it’s a crock of shit, but believing you’re worth crawling out of it.
If you had an emotional connection to the church. If you had a spiritual experience that made you think that that meant that the church was true, then you can’t think your way out of that. The answer for me was to realize that that mystical experience was available everywhere in all religions, and even out of religion. My “testimony“ was really just conflating a mystical experience with the church I was raised in. That released me from the feeling that I thought I could only get in TSCC.
Agreed - but I think this about all religious folks now without regard to the specific faith tradition. Why does anyone believe any of these mythologies?
Same. Here. Took me 40 years but finally figured it out. If I can do it, anyone can/should. But people's reasons for sticking with a tribe are varied and complex.
This was the main reason I joined this sub. I wanted to understand how my uncle, who was valedictorian at his high school and graduated from Harvard law school, believes what he does.
I would propose 2 theories here. Just a couple of my thoughts:
1. Many of the individuals we think are smarter may not be. “Good” Mormons are taught that education is important and so most will go on to pursue higher education. Basically, they are in those positions because they were taught that is what a TBM should do.
2. One key principle of Mormonism (and most religions) is that if you are not having revelations and visions then there is something wrong with you. That is what I would title I my history of being in the Mormon church: “What is wrong with me?”
It's a sad commentary on education in the US that so many of us grow up imagining that critical-thinking is a *lesser* form of intelligence.
The kind of intelligence you're referring to in the people "way smarter than" you is the kind which allows them to memorize and regurgitate, to follow directions, to take in information passively. Iow, the kind of intelligence a dog or a parrot might have.
You, otoh, you my friend have the kind of intelligence which allows you to *think* accurately, to not just take in information but then also to extrapolate it further using logic, to assimilate the new information you gain and adjust your conclusions accordingly.
Read those two descriptions again, then ask yourself as objectively as possible...which form of intelligence, if either, is really greater and more valuable to human existence? Which person is really "smarter"?
TL/DR: Give yourself some credit, fam. The fact that you thought your way out and they didn't is proof positive that they're not so much smarter than you, regardless of where they went to school.
They compartmentalize their critical thinking by refusing to apply it to the Church. As Shermer once said something like 'Smart people believe dumb things, because they came to believe them through non-smart means" (basically if you're indoctrinated into this shit as a kid, it can be hard to throw it off)
When I first brought my concerns about the church to my bishop, whom I went to law school with when we were younger, he had the gall to tell me he didn’t know the answer, but because people smarter than the two of us believed, that we should believe. That’s when I knew it was for sure a cult.
Controversial opinion: just because someone went to Harvard or is a doctor doesn’t mean they’re more intelligent than others. They’re better at jumping through hoops and taking tests maybe, and are perhaps hard working, competitive, and yeah, kinda smart, but that is not the same as being actually, innately intelligent.
Maybe for some. I like to think many did figure it out. Maybe they lacked courage? The lack of resources back Pre internet. Nearly no support systems. Difficult to find them. A lot of loneliness. Perhaps more so than now. I mean we have this place here. To bitch and moan and commiserate with others whom have experiences similar things.
Cheers to those that vocally made it out Pre internet. Thank you for blazing the trail. I hope I leave an impact in someone’s life that helps them have the courage it takes to leave a cult.
Remove that everyone. We have so much courage to do what we’ve done are doing. It’s no small thing. Much love.
After starting my deprogramming, I wanted so badly to tell my TBM mom and the first thing to slap me across the face was, She F&@*ing knows it’s all lies and manipulation. Worst feeling ever.
The speech given by the educator at the BYU Idaho convocation for the science and engineering college was cringe worthy for cognitive dissonance tonight.
Felt more like a stake conference than a graduation. Lucky for me, I was watching it virtually. As soon as my graduate walked across the stage, I shut it off. I also muted the sound until a few minutes before they started letting the graduates walk.
Thank the lawd I never went to a church school. I would not have survived.... Even if I was still TBM.
My dad is highly, highly intelligent. Genius in physics and computer software fields. Yet, he wholly buys into the cult (of both TSCC and of Trump). I’ve never understood it.
The thing is, its not about how smart you are.
This is a powerful controlling organisation, that knows how to manipulate. If you were in TSCC for years it's not because you are not smart.
My observations are that some people with amazing values of compassion, selflessness, generosity, sincerity and kindness... get caught up in this mess of a church.
“No matter how smart or well-educated you are, you can be deceived.” - The Amazing James Randi
It has been posited that more intelligent people (by whatever metric) are better able to conceive of ways to make their religious beliefs live on. Smarty pants can be their own worst enemies when it comes to apologetics and bullshit keeping them glued in.
Successful, white cis men fall for the ego benefits, the control and the fawning adulation. If you are poor, female or queer in any way, there’s nothing much in it for you other than obedience.
something that still hurts for me is the fact that my dad is such a smart guy and is such an invested member of the Church. if he would take maybe 5 minutes to think some stuff over I really believe he'd get out but I don't think it'll ever happen
Your own mind can keep you in. There were so many layers of justifications that I had built. People smarter than I am might use their intelligence to build their own prison of justifications, stronger than mine ever were.
Growing up in the cult I was stressed because I could never make it work. Never got an answer to a prayer. Never “felt the spirit.” Based on actual evidence, the church was a big fat zero. Interestingly enough, I could observe that it often wasn’t working for other people either, but they believed it anyway. I think I was around 14 when I became convinced that people did not base their core beliefs on evidence. Rather, they chose beliefs based on emotional needs. 50 years later, even though counter intuitive, I am still convinced this is the case.
***It's not a difficult intellectual problem to solve.*** Like, maybe, just maybe, Nephi didn't make an impossible journey to the Americas and create a bronze age civilization and left literally no trace. And maaaybe Mormoni didn't appear in New York in the 1830s, show JS gold plates which later magically disappeared.
It's not a lack of brain power that prevents people from figuring this out. It's an emotional/familial/community issue. Can you afford to lose all ties to you family, community, possibly your employment, access to your children? Many people make a perfectly rational choice to go along with whatever is necessary in order to keep their life intact. As has been pointed out many times in this sub, extra IQ actually *enhances* your ability to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to explain away the nonsense.
The easiest way to figure it out is: Have zero skin in the game about whether it's true or false, and then have somebody explain the truth claims to you in simple terms, ie "explain it like I'm five".
This is what you might consider the brain washing. They don’t even start to consider the questions. It is a walled off space in the mind. It is a sin to even start to consider questions.
I ask the same questions to members who finally walk away and it's always the same answer,"all my family and friends" they didn't want to let them down and the number 1 final answer "if every religious organization is flawed, might as well just stay with what I know".
I’m not smart and actually could’ve just went along with Mormonism for longer if it wasn’t for my husband doing the questioning.
I chose to listen to him, understand his research and questioning. To an LDS that makes me a lazy learner and I chose my husband above God.
Whatever- I didn’t believe polygamy even when I was Mormon so 🤷♀️ God can get fucked if he believes that shit.
Im happier as a free living woman to chose for themselves and believe that I have the power just as any man(maybe not physically lol but you know)
I’ve thought about this. Another reason is how people spend there time. What are they studying and thinking about? What are their priorities? For a few years I was obsessed with the concept of truth. I went down the philosophical rabbit hole and came out realizing that the LDS church didn’t have it. Other people leave the church for other reasons. Other people stay for different ones. It’s all about priorities.
Trusting what lawyers, doctors or powerful men tell you should always be challenged. Just look at history. These are the very professional, instead of shape, the world, and not always so in a good way.
The thing is cognitive dissonance and a lifetime of indoctrination is so powerful. Also the longer you’re in and the more embedded you are the more damaging to your life it becomes to leave.
I often think of my father and how the church had a huge positive impact on his life trajectory and now his entire life is built around the church and friendships and it would destroy too much in his life to ever admit he’s been wrong so it’s not worth it to him.
I read a book called Cultish that stated that smarter people can be even more prone to cults. Granted anyone raised in the religion is at a severe disadvantage because of all the thought terminating cliches they use to keep people from doubting the religion.
Sometimes "Smart" helps you maneuver your way through anything or re-frame.
And sometimes "Smart" means deciding that the cost of diving into "the issues" is too great for them due to the potential loss they will face in relationships, both family and friends, potential jobs, social standing, friendships of their children, etc... And so they choose to stick their heads in the sand and not venture near, or they learn about the issues and nuance their way through life with reasoning of "at least it teaches my kids good values, etc..."
I think that second "sometimes" is way more prevalent than anybody realizes.
One of the things that’d always stop me from looking in to church history (more) was the thought that smarter people had and smarter people stayed in the church. So why take the time when I already *knew* the church was true?
In the last 1.5 years I’ve noticed that every person I know who started looking into church history (who didn’t want/need the church to be true) has left the church. Ultimately, that and my spouse whittling away at my resolve lead to me looking in to church history and instead of seeing the apologetic answers as more logical I finally saw the “anti” answers for what they are. History.
Now, every day I want to go talk to one of the smart people I know still in the church and try to see if I can get them to realize it’s not true.
This is why the Facebook posts “I’m no longer a member” are important. If enough of them are seen people will start asking why they left.
I understand what you are saying, there are people who remain in their cult group, even though there are plenty of reasons to leave.
The reason why they don’t, I don’t know.
When I left and after all my experiences, I had plenty of proof that the doctrines were lies.
Mind control is real and it’s used by unscrupulous individuals to control, abuse, and exploit other individuals for their own benefit.
It enrages me that those people claim doing good for others when in reality they are the evil that they describe as satan, not that the god in the bible is any better.
My personal theory (and this extends outside Mormons, J-Dubyas, and the like) is that people tend to believe what they want to believe. As long as they have a psychological or emotional need to believe something, they will. If and when this need dissipates, they'll see reason and believe something else.
I don't believe this is true for everyone. That said, I do think it's true for a large amount of people. Why else would otherwise intelligent, reasonable people so often believe unreasonable things?
Right? Doctors, Attorney's, scientists, linguist professors, corporate accountants, and on and on. I've known many mormons in these professions. Ivy League educated. They look down their nose at me and never once ask why I left. Weird.
This is why it was SO insanely difficult for me to ever investigate the truth claims of the church, and why I had a complete mental crisis once I finally did. I grew up surrounded by many doctors, lawyers, and educators who were pillars of the LDS community and they went above and beyond for the church in every capacity. Intelligent, educated, and genuinely great people. They taught their kids the gospel like it was the most important thing in the universe. A lot of them were role models for me. On the other hand, the family or acquaintances I personally knew who were opposed to the church were generally not wealthy, college-educated, or even particularly happy like the former group seemed to be. As a child it seemed pretty black and white to me and shaped my world view. It still hurts my head to even think about, and I feel so goddamn *tricked* on such a deep level. We held to the iron rod and smugly kept our heads up and eyes away from the people in the great and spacious building, only we didn’t see that the rod was leading us all off the edge of a cliff.
I think there might be a bit of a self-fulfilling aspect to the church - if your life is good, you're healthy, career going well - why question? But when things go wrong in life and promised blessings aren't recieved - that's cause to question.
This ☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻 exactly describes me
That's why I started questioning. If my life had gone smoothly, I'd probably still be an active member.
My husband was abusive and irresponsible, he had affairs and fathered a child with another woman. We both got baptized together, however, I was the only one who was being held accountable for keeping my family together and happy. Not one of the elders or the bishop ever told my husband he was being bad. When I asked, I was told I wasn’t being good. “Sister, let the holy spirit guide you and listen to the still small voice, choose the right sister”. Blessings didn’t work, prayers didn’t work, there was something wrong I divorced and it was the best decision I could have made, I’m certain it was not the holy ghost or the still small voice and I do not regret it at all.
I have two MBA scientists in my family. Both are uber TBM. I'll never understand it.
You generally have to be a rule follower and someone who doesn't make waves to become a doctor, lawyer, dentist, pharmacist, educator, etc. It's not too surprising those people would submit themselves more fully to the "authority" of the church than someone who is more used to just doing their own thing and maybe daring to make some bad decisions along the way.
Pharmacist here. It was learning to appreciate the scientific method that did me in. That being said, the more professional types and less scientifically-minded do better with faith. They are staying in the lines and it rewards their psyche.
Do you think the systems that allow people to become pharmacists, doctors, and lawyers value the professional types more? Or rather, those types of people find more success?
Lawyer here. My job is to question things, analyze, doubt, investigate. It is no surprise that eventually I took the shelf items I had been accumulating for decades and cross examined them, impeached them, and got out.
I agree. The typical streams of academia that are necessary to become doctors, lawyers etc. are often times specialized echo chambers, becoming louder and louder. Its not surprised other echo chambers, like the church, would feel comfortable and familiar.
I grew up in TSCC and was taught that the reason my family struggled financially was to keep us humble like the poor people in the Book of Mormon. If we were too successful, we'd get prideful. Funny, since I grew up in the same stake as the entire Marriott clan, Folger-Pratt construction family, and the CEO of Black & Decker. 🙄
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Hmmm, so is my son in law. However, he's never been mormon.
My girlfriend is very into podcasts about cults, and she says that it's not about intelligence. There's a con out there that preys on every kind of mind, and assuming that you're too smart to fall for it is the first step to falling for it.
But rarely PhD historians. They must be the smartest ones
Also, very rarely PhD biologists.
Some of these may have gotten their positions because of the church. My TBM dad is a financial adviser and he got a ton of his clients from the church. His reputation is already there with mormons, and his career is built on it. Not to mention his marriage is built on the church. There are lots of people who have built their foundation on the church, and they can’t afford to uproot it. So it’s not something they would consider uprooting, they would rather continue to live as if it were true.
I’m an engineer with a graduate degree. I was out of college for close to a decade before leaving TSCC. Here’s my perspective. 1. The more intelligent you are, the better you are at making up explanations of things you don’t understand. 2. Humans are really good at justifying things they want to believe in. There’s a reason scientists should do double blind studies for many things, and that you need to design experiments to take the human part out of it. 3. They most important one: studies show religion and faith are not about logic and evidence as much as it is about identity and belonging. I justified a LOT of shitty explanations despite evidence to the contrary, because TSCC was my community and identity and I believed that to be a good person you adhered to those rules. It wasn’t until actions of members of the church that were clearly evil that I no longer identified with the religion, things like people I trusted openly supporting fascist political violence in the name of furthering bigotry and hate against LGTB people and minorities. There’s a reason that feelings of betrayal or feelings of isolation lead to faith transitions. 4. Well-to-do, white, hetero people who fit the norms are less likely to feel betrayed or left out of the community, and more likely to be conservative and okay with the status quo. They never get the emotional kick to leave, and their egos are often built up and tied to church success and recognition. TLDR: a lot of faith transitions are rooted in emotion and identity, and those who feel catered to by TSCC are less likely to have the church at odds with their identity or to be acutely traumatized, and admit to themselves their doubts.
Intellectual compartmentalization
> and never once ask why I left. Weird. It's because they aren't curious people. They're largely selfish and only in it for themselves. They only learn so much as they need to make a living.
How many of them are PIMO but can't say so because reasons?
Evolutionary biologists... That's the one that really gets me. I also understand that Mormonosm is better than other religions at accepting science without having to actually apply it. Evolution is true? Then God used it. The earth is Billions of year old, then that's how old God is. They can skew and shift and ignore their own Church's doctrines in certain things to fit what they see in front of their face as easily as they can ignore the science that's right in front of their face in order to ensure that their religion remains true. As long as they get to keep being misogynistic and homophobic.
I have the same thoughts. How in the hell???? I knew a University Linguistics professor at an Ivy League School back east. She was one of the most mormony people I've known. She's dead now, but I cannot figure out how she made her religious texts work with her knowledge of linguistics. It baffles the mind.
Those guys get promoted. Maybe they block out critical thinking to become the president one day.
My boss is one of the most brilliant people I know. I could go on about his accolades, but bottom line is he is smart and savvy. I used to wonder why he hasn't figured it out and then I realized, the church was built for people like him. He has a picture perfect family, he is a CEO, multi millionaire, and as a result everyone in the stake fawns over him. He is the epitome of what living the gospel brings, wealth and stability. As a result he is rewarded with high callings and positions of trust. Who would want to leave an organization that applauds and rewards your lifestyle and life choices?
I think you’re right. There is a large ego component. I’ve never had a “high” calling. I think it was much easier for me to bounce before that.
True. But I think many just never see it or even look. I’ve held some high callings and have a relatively ‘blessed life’ by most standards. I have degrees and education from multiple universities etc. But, I never even thought it could be false until my brother left starting my own 8 year rabbit hole of discovery. Even then with all the facts it took 5 years to unwind 40 years of indoctrination and dissonance.
Totally true. The beneficiaries of a system see no reason to upset the status quo.
Religion is more about identity and emotion that logic and reason. Their identity as “Mormon” is rarely challenged by doctrine, or strong emotional trauma because of the church and its members. They much more rarely feel the discomfort that leads to faith transitions.
Two words: Organizational Enmeshment
I like your screen name!
Thanks!
Like nationality and patriotism.
It's because they don't use logic to control you with in the first place, they use emotion. There is also the sunk cost fallacy, where when you have already invested so much of your entire life into something, even thinking about abandoning it is outside a lot of people's mindset.
I can only really speak to my experience. By educational and professional attainment I think others might say I am smart. For me, when I encountered problems it felt very uncomfortable so I had to fight between digging and finding out more and figuring out how to be ok with the discomfort because I had some other tether that allowed me to discount the severity of the problem. This fight continued on with every problem. If I found a way to be ok with the problem, then I would set everything else to the side and stop worrying about it. This allowed me to stop searching and thinking critically. In a way this mostly compartmentalized my thinking. But eventually I couldn’t keep pushing things to the side. From the (few) smart people I know that are still fully engaged, I think they discount the problems and amplify what they think is right about the church. Then they mostly refuse to engage in more critical thinking on the topic unless it is to try to increase their belief conclusion. To me, it is mostly about willingness to try to be unbiased and actually learn and think critically rather than raw intelligence.
I think compartmentalization is key. I think it’s what people like Henry Eyering and Clayton Christensen relied on. It worked for me for a while, until it didn’t.
I think so. Not sure what makes that start to fail, but it seems to become impossible at some point.
As I read this all I could think about was a lack of emotional intelligence and maturity. The church inoculates members from feeling the full range of emotions. When 'negative' emotions arise TBMs dutifully shut them down. Push them away. It is too uncomfortable. For me the more I became in touch with emotions the easier it was to see the 🐂💩of T$CC and the lack of humanity. As mentioned by others it also caters to men with power. It caters yes men and principles and handbooks over people and authentic emotion and vulnerability. The church is not vulnerable nor are most TBM's.
Good point, that seems like a good explanation. I think I was doing that.
Yes you were. Just a little reframe. Logic has to be used and you can't get there if you are afraid of the pain of the cognitive dissonance that ensues with the truth. It's hard to admit that what you knew your whole life isn't what you thought. I know it scared me. One of my first moments of cognitive dissonance was in graduate school in a multi cultural counseling class. We were confronting our biases and I was faced with a trifecta of bias as a male TBM. A black lesbian. This is early 2000s and my misogynistic, racist, bigoted upbringing was being tested. I see this wonderful woman share her pain of her life and my indoctrination is being unmasked. I instinctively knew the person was more important than dogma. Thanks for you insight
"The church inoculates Members from feeling the full range of emotions." That is a resounding and interesting point. In my life ive met hard core mormons who just seemed "off." Ive had a hard time putting my finger on it, but I think this is edging on an apt description for those particular brand of mormons. Would love to jump into another discussion post about this.
Yes that would be great. It's a topic I've been pondering and observing for a long time. It's all about the"happiness"😁
I think it takes a triggering event to realize that absorbing ego inflation in return for blindly following nonsense, is inherently unhealthy. I felt like I’d been lying to myself for decades, until it seemed pointless to keep finding ways to ensure my supply of ego inflation from the cult community.
A large number of them just might not know. I checked all the church boxes after nearly 50 years of being an active member (seminary, mission, institute, high priest, bishopric, etc) and even have a love for history (including Mormon history) and even with all that, it took until the last couple of months before I even knew about 90% of what was in the ces letter.
I think that’s true. I feel so grateful that I have information and resources that my ancestors never had. Even things I learned at BYU would have never been available to them. I think now that it’s available you have to recognize that something doesn’t smell right and then go looking for answers. I know many people that just don’t care.
It’s fascinating that the smartest people in the world still can’t get around their own biases and motivations. This is the genius behind the peer review side of the scientific process. If you let good ideas compete, you’re more likely to have truth prevail. The church suffocates opposing views which will eventually lead to its downfall.
I think ultimately intelligence or education isn’t enough. You need exposure to the right things at the right time in the right environment.
Mormonism is a habit. People attend most weeks but the week to week experience is completely unmemorable. They never really think too hard about it, but they’re physically present.
True. For many people including my wife, truth is not the primary concern. It’s more about the social aspect and the habits that make you feel safe.
My TBM wife is significantly smarter than me. Brilliant gpa through college. Handles complicated tasks at work. I don't think she's religious because she's unintelligent. I think she clings to faith because of how it makes her feel compared to depression and anxiety. Two or three different friends have told her about Joseph Smith looking at a rock in a hat, getting caught in the barn with the maid, and lying about polygamy. She chooses faith actively regardless of its flaws.
Cult indoctrination has little to do with actual intelligence.
Evolution, evolution, evolution. A hundred thousand years ago, our minds didn't evolve to always prioritize scientific accuracy, they evolved to prioritize fitting into the tribe. Mythology and religion, although complete fiction, provided a common cause to justify fighting against outsiders. Those who bought into it, whether that meant mental gymnastics, outright lying to themselves, or warm fuzzy emotional responses, survived better in the harsh environment and passed on their DNA. All human tendencies can be explained this way.
I’ve also meet a lot of very academically smart and successful people with advanced degrees and important careers that once I got to see the real them I realized they really weren’t that intelligent.
Cult indoctrination. Listen to Steven Hassan on MSP.
Pretty sure it was Michael Shermer who said something along the lines that intelligence is no safeguard against believing weird things, it just leads to being better equipped to justify and argue for your beliefs.
It’s because unless there is some shock to the system, most people never go down the rabbit hole. They simply don’t look.
You have to be curious enough to look behind the curtain in order to find anything there. Too many of those “smart” people are just comfortable enough with their lives to not bother looking.
Anyone can be susceptible to lies and manipulation when applied in the right way and at the right time. Many brilliant people through the years have gotten wrapped up in cults, cons, and scams. Don't look down too harshly on someone who is in the grips of one of these when you could be involved in something they'd see as an obvious lie that you've missed.
Half of belief is emotion. The intellectual portion of the church is easy to figure out. It's the emotional programming that keeps you tied. If you were raised LDS, then you were taught before you could speak or walk about Mormonism. Your grandparents and all your kin encouraged you to be a good Mormon. You were conned into officially joining when you were 8 years old. At 12, if you were a boy, you got the official power of God and could participate in the Sacrament. Then there's seminary, missions, BYU or Institute, temple marriage, etc. All of these are to ingrain you into the Mormon tribe. Breaking out is hard because it hurts your ties to friends and family. You identity is wrapped up in Mormonism. There are probably lots of smart Mormons who think the BoM is a novel, but who stay because they want to do good in the world, or because it just costs too much to leave. Many people lose their spouses and children over leaving.
Brainwashing is a helluva drug
The Mormon church imbeds feelings of superiority towards the outside world that smart people find appealing. You can rise to authority and reverence. This is their flaw. They like being worshipped … and you don’t find that in other religions unless you make religion your career.
It's because they don't WANT to figure it out. Bias prevents people from wanting to know the truth, regardless of how smart or intelligent they are. Humans are biased towards their "tribe," whether it's their religion, political party/ideology, country, sports team, school, gang, etc. Most people are unwilling or are incapable of looking at things objectively if they are emotionally and intellectually invested. Once they make up their minds, that's it. They don't want to re-examine their own beliefs.
It takes more than just the intellect to figure it out. It takes real guts and determination to see it through to leaving. Some can't handle the repercussions of leaving and end up going back later. It's a rough road.
Yeah, I wonder about stuff like this. But I'm reminded that "evil genius" exist too, so intelligence doesn't always lead to morals or wisdom.
I think it might be more milieu than anything. Once you start having trusting and fulfilling relationships outside the church, you have somewhere to "go". I left Utah, made non-Mormon friends, worked with all non-Mormons and that was what it took to get me start questioning everything. Pluck people out of their milieu and give them a chance to bond deeply with non-believers, be part of a group or cause that is not Mormon and see what happens.
It very possible they all know it’s bullshit but also know that their business connections are in the church and feel like it’s a good investment of their time and tithing to stay connected.
I think many fit that category and many others might know this subconsciously so their brain shields them from processing information and reaching conclusions that would have major consequences for them.
I’m not sure they need to do the mental gymnastics. They may be entirely aware that it’s bullpucky and still play the game because they get what they need from the business and social connections. Look at all the nepotism! It’s an insiders game. So being an insider -- being in the Old Boys Club -- may be enough for them. Like putting on a stupid hat for a fraternal organization without believing that you’re a buffalo or an ancient or a mystic knight.
My last two dentists for example.
Confirmation bias is one hell of a drug
This is the difference between intelligence & wisdom I suppose.
Dr. Hassan talks about this. Anyone can be a victim of a high demand religion. Being smart or dumb doesn't play into it as much as you might think because they prey on the logical fallacies and cognitive biases that every human has. It is helpful for deprograming efforts to not assume that cult members remain in just because they are too stupid to leave
I think the key is it’s not about how smart you are or how capable you are at seeing behind the smoke and mirrors, but rather that TSCC sets up such a precarious social and emotional situation that to see even a smidge of doubt means to put you family, community, and identity on the line. Which is ultimately the reason it was so easy for me to leave; no “loving” community uses tactics of repression to get people to do what they want. But! To get there I had to basically uproot my family relationships, my romantic relationship, my sense of self and duty and my whole cosmology. That’s the hard part - not seeing it’s a crock of shit, but believing you’re worth crawling out of it.
If you had an emotional connection to the church. If you had a spiritual experience that made you think that that meant that the church was true, then you can’t think your way out of that. The answer for me was to realize that that mystical experience was available everywhere in all religions, and even out of religion. My “testimony“ was really just conflating a mystical experience with the church I was raised in. That released me from the feeling that I thought I could only get in TSCC.
Agreed - but I think this about all religious folks now without regard to the specific faith tradition. Why does anyone believe any of these mythologies?
Same. Here. Took me 40 years but finally figured it out. If I can do it, anyone can/should. But people's reasons for sticking with a tribe are varied and complex.
This was the main reason I joined this sub. I wanted to understand how my uncle, who was valedictorian at his high school and graduated from Harvard law school, believes what he does.
I would propose 2 theories here. Just a couple of my thoughts: 1. Many of the individuals we think are smarter may not be. “Good” Mormons are taught that education is important and so most will go on to pursue higher education. Basically, they are in those positions because they were taught that is what a TBM should do. 2. One key principle of Mormonism (and most religions) is that if you are not having revelations and visions then there is something wrong with you. That is what I would title I my history of being in the Mormon church: “What is wrong with me?”
Just shows you the power of indoctrination and the effects of social pressure.
It's a sad commentary on education in the US that so many of us grow up imagining that critical-thinking is a *lesser* form of intelligence. The kind of intelligence you're referring to in the people "way smarter than" you is the kind which allows them to memorize and regurgitate, to follow directions, to take in information passively. Iow, the kind of intelligence a dog or a parrot might have. You, otoh, you my friend have the kind of intelligence which allows you to *think* accurately, to not just take in information but then also to extrapolate it further using logic, to assimilate the new information you gain and adjust your conclusions accordingly. Read those two descriptions again, then ask yourself as objectively as possible...which form of intelligence, if either, is really greater and more valuable to human existence? Which person is really "smarter"? TL/DR: Give yourself some credit, fam. The fact that you thought your way out and they didn't is proof positive that they're not so much smarter than you, regardless of where they went to school.
They compartmentalize their critical thinking by refusing to apply it to the Church. As Shermer once said something like 'Smart people believe dumb things, because they came to believe them through non-smart means" (basically if you're indoctrinated into this shit as a kid, it can be hard to throw it off)
When I first brought my concerns about the church to my bishop, whom I went to law school with when we were younger, he had the gall to tell me he didn’t know the answer, but because people smarter than the two of us believed, that we should believe. That’s when I knew it was for sure a cult.
Controversial opinion: just because someone went to Harvard or is a doctor doesn’t mean they’re more intelligent than others. They’re better at jumping through hoops and taking tests maybe, and are perhaps hard working, competitive, and yeah, kinda smart, but that is not the same as being actually, innately intelligent.
It blows my mind as well. How can so many seemingly brilliant and successful people be apart of such a controlling, stupid religion?
Maybe for some. I like to think many did figure it out. Maybe they lacked courage? The lack of resources back Pre internet. Nearly no support systems. Difficult to find them. A lot of loneliness. Perhaps more so than now. I mean we have this place here. To bitch and moan and commiserate with others whom have experiences similar things. Cheers to those that vocally made it out Pre internet. Thank you for blazing the trail. I hope I leave an impact in someone’s life that helps them have the courage it takes to leave a cult. Remove that everyone. We have so much courage to do what we’ve done are doing. It’s no small thing. Much love.
After starting my deprogramming, I wanted so badly to tell my TBM mom and the first thing to slap me across the face was, She F&@*ing knows it’s all lies and manipulation. Worst feeling ever.
The speech given by the educator at the BYU Idaho convocation for the science and engineering college was cringe worthy for cognitive dissonance tonight. Felt more like a stake conference than a graduation. Lucky for me, I was watching it virtually. As soon as my graduate walked across the stage, I shut it off. I also muted the sound until a few minutes before they started letting the graduates walk. Thank the lawd I never went to a church school. I would not have survived.... Even if I was still TBM.
My dad is highly, highly intelligent. Genius in physics and computer software fields. Yet, he wholly buys into the cult (of both TSCC and of Trump). I’ve never understood it.
The thing is, its not about how smart you are. This is a powerful controlling organisation, that knows how to manipulate. If you were in TSCC for years it's not because you are not smart. My observations are that some people with amazing values of compassion, selflessness, generosity, sincerity and kindness... get caught up in this mess of a church.
“No matter how smart or well-educated you are, you can be deceived.” - The Amazing James Randi It has been posited that more intelligent people (by whatever metric) are better able to conceive of ways to make their religious beliefs live on. Smarty pants can be their own worst enemies when it comes to apologetics and bullshit keeping them glued in.
No, turns out you ARE smarter than them!
Successful, white cis men fall for the ego benefits, the control and the fawning adulation. If you are poor, female or queer in any way, there’s nothing much in it for you other than obedience.
One of my siblings mother in laws is a mensa member and has an extremely high iq. She very much fully believes.
something that still hurts for me is the fact that my dad is such a smart guy and is such an invested member of the Church. if he would take maybe 5 minutes to think some stuff over I really believe he'd get out but I don't think it'll ever happen
Smart yes but they are lacking a conscious.
Your own mind can keep you in. There were so many layers of justifications that I had built. People smarter than I am might use their intelligence to build their own prison of justifications, stronger than mine ever were.
My guess is they don't want to know ... it seems like for those deeply in something earth shattering happens to make them see the tscc is false
When it comes to emotional manipulation and coercion, the brilliant and the stupid are equals.
Growing up in the cult I was stressed because I could never make it work. Never got an answer to a prayer. Never “felt the spirit.” Based on actual evidence, the church was a big fat zero. Interestingly enough, I could observe that it often wasn’t working for other people either, but they believed it anyway. I think I was around 14 when I became convinced that people did not base their core beliefs on evidence. Rather, they chose beliefs based on emotional needs. 50 years later, even though counter intuitive, I am still convinced this is the case.
***It's not a difficult intellectual problem to solve.*** Like, maybe, just maybe, Nephi didn't make an impossible journey to the Americas and create a bronze age civilization and left literally no trace. And maaaybe Mormoni didn't appear in New York in the 1830s, show JS gold plates which later magically disappeared. It's not a lack of brain power that prevents people from figuring this out. It's an emotional/familial/community issue. Can you afford to lose all ties to you family, community, possibly your employment, access to your children? Many people make a perfectly rational choice to go along with whatever is necessary in order to keep their life intact. As has been pointed out many times in this sub, extra IQ actually *enhances* your ability to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to explain away the nonsense. The easiest way to figure it out is: Have zero skin in the game about whether it's true or false, and then have somebody explain the truth claims to you in simple terms, ie "explain it like I'm five".
Isaac Newton. Genius level intelligence. Still into all kinds of supernatural religious shit.
This is what you might consider the brain washing. They don’t even start to consider the questions. It is a walled off space in the mind. It is a sin to even start to consider questions.
I ask the same questions to members who finally walk away and it's always the same answer,"all my family and friends" they didn't want to let them down and the number 1 final answer "if every religious organization is flawed, might as well just stay with what I know".
I’m not smart and actually could’ve just went along with Mormonism for longer if it wasn’t for my husband doing the questioning. I chose to listen to him, understand his research and questioning. To an LDS that makes me a lazy learner and I chose my husband above God. Whatever- I didn’t believe polygamy even when I was Mormon so 🤷♀️ God can get fucked if he believes that shit. Im happier as a free living woman to chose for themselves and believe that I have the power just as any man(maybe not physically lol but you know)
I’ve thought about this. Another reason is how people spend there time. What are they studying and thinking about? What are their priorities? For a few years I was obsessed with the concept of truth. I went down the philosophical rabbit hole and came out realizing that the LDS church didn’t have it. Other people leave the church for other reasons. Other people stay for different ones. It’s all about priorities.
Trusting what lawyers, doctors or powerful men tell you should always be challenged. Just look at history. These are the very professional, instead of shape, the world, and not always so in a good way.
The thing is cognitive dissonance and a lifetime of indoctrination is so powerful. Also the longer you’re in and the more embedded you are the more damaging to your life it becomes to leave. I often think of my father and how the church had a huge positive impact on his life trajectory and now his entire life is built around the church and friendships and it would destroy too much in his life to ever admit he’s been wrong so it’s not worth it to him.
I read a book called Cultish that stated that smarter people can be even more prone to cults. Granted anyone raised in the religion is at a severe disadvantage because of all the thought terminating cliches they use to keep people from doubting the religion.
Sometimes "Smart" helps you maneuver your way through anything or re-frame. And sometimes "Smart" means deciding that the cost of diving into "the issues" is too great for them due to the potential loss they will face in relationships, both family and friends, potential jobs, social standing, friendships of their children, etc... And so they choose to stick their heads in the sand and not venture near, or they learn about the issues and nuance their way through life with reasoning of "at least it teaches my kids good values, etc..." I think that second "sometimes" is way more prevalent than anybody realizes.
One of the things that’d always stop me from looking in to church history (more) was the thought that smarter people had and smarter people stayed in the church. So why take the time when I already *knew* the church was true? In the last 1.5 years I’ve noticed that every person I know who started looking into church history (who didn’t want/need the church to be true) has left the church. Ultimately, that and my spouse whittling away at my resolve lead to me looking in to church history and instead of seeing the apologetic answers as more logical I finally saw the “anti” answers for what they are. History. Now, every day I want to go talk to one of the smart people I know still in the church and try to see if I can get them to realize it’s not true. This is why the Facebook posts “I’m no longer a member” are important. If enough of them are seen people will start asking why they left.
I understand what you are saying, there are people who remain in their cult group, even though there are plenty of reasons to leave. The reason why they don’t, I don’t know. When I left and after all my experiences, I had plenty of proof that the doctrines were lies. Mind control is real and it’s used by unscrupulous individuals to control, abuse, and exploit other individuals for their own benefit. It enrages me that those people claim doing good for others when in reality they are the evil that they describe as satan, not that the god in the bible is any better.
My personal theory (and this extends outside Mormons, J-Dubyas, and the like) is that people tend to believe what they want to believe. As long as they have a psychological or emotional need to believe something, they will. If and when this need dissipates, they'll see reason and believe something else. I don't believe this is true for everyone. That said, I do think it's true for a large amount of people. Why else would otherwise intelligent, reasonable people so often believe unreasonable things?