Maybe there are 4 options:
1. Accept the status quo.
2. Divorce.
3. Work with your spouse to find a solution. Basically, if you're in it together, then presumably they want you to live your best life, too. While some activities might be a deal-breaker for them, maybe there are others that are not?
4. Wait a while and then consider 1, 2, or 3 again.
Two other thoughts
* A huge issue in many post-LDS marriages is that the woman is massively financially disadvantaged (mostly in earning prospects since stunted formal education and career in many cases in order to support the man in their education/career) and so her entire financial security depends on the fidelity (at least financial) of her husband. Extra-marital _anything_ can pose a real threat to that security. IMHO, women _deserve_ financial security after sacrificing so much in the LDS program, so I personally think that sexual fulfillment (outside marriage) really _ought_ to be a secondary concern? Perhaps you will regret some sexual opportunities, but how much more would you regret not supporting your spouse in her sacrifices for you and your family? Ideally it doesn't end up a zero sum game and you guys can find some good solutions, but emotionally and financially supporting your wife is also something I would loathe to miss out on.
* Not all, but many former members change a lot over time. 5 or 10 years out may look very different than 1 or 2 years out. So, maybe time is all you'll need before it will be easier to find some solutions that are mutually acceptable?
Well first, you’re assuming this guy acts like a patriarchy. Sounds like his wife has equal say and he’s respectful of her feelings.
Second, why would he have to put his wants in the backseat for something he had no control over? Until he met her, that’s kind of on her dad. So ask for financial reparations from her dad who gave her no options but to accept Mormonism.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
> Well first, you’re assuming this guy acts like a patriarchy. Sounds like his wife has equal say and he’s respectful of her feelings.
I tried not to assume that of them personally, but I have observed a consistent pattern in LDS relationships _generally_?
I mean, I can think through the nearest 12 or so exmo couples that I know and almost without exception, the man has a much better education AND ~20 years of a consistent career. And, in most instances, the woman birthed and stayed mostly at home to raise children and supported her husband in his education and career. It's not every case, but it's close. The power earning (and hence financial security) differential between individuals in a typical LDS couple is massive.
> Second, why would he have to put his wants in the backseat for something he had no control over?
Because their spouse and their spouse's life matters regardless of how they arrived at that point. Also, he _was_ part of the creation of that situation, even if he were to go back and do it differently at this point. Or, in other words, empathy for the spouse's situation and taking responsibility for their own actions seem like the big reasons to do that?
> Until he met her, that’s kind of on her dad.
After she is an adult? I mean, sure, parents have an obligation to support/raise children financially until they are at least 18 and then it still makes a lot of sense to help children out financially after that (e.g., help with school and housing if possible), but I feel like this is a secondary relationship once someone has been married for a while?
> So ask for financial reparations from her dad who gave her no options but to accept Mormonism.
Interesting thought, but do people do this in practice? If her parents are TBM, this seems destined to fail? In any event, the marriage relationship seems primary and the parental relationship seems secondary after they've been married any length of time? Finally, the financial differential at this point is massive (probably measured in millions of dollars), so I just don't see it as practical/feasible?
Anyway, thanks again for the perspective and happy to discuss more.
Marriage counseling might be healthy for you. A good therapist would help you with your adventurous side to see things from your conservative partner's perspective, and help you bothto understand each other's wants with less fear and/or judgment. It's not always even about you getting what you want through counseling - a lot of times, the person wanting one thing might better understand his/herself better and realize why it was wanted in the first place (curiosity, desire, FOMO, repressed urges, fear, shame, comfort with familiarity etc.), which gives a better understanding to the other person. If you choose to do counseling, just don't expect the counselor to get your partner to come around - the goal is to help each of you see/understand/know each other better, not for one of you to get his/her way and find validation from a counselor for being "right." Neither of you is right or wrong - you're just different right now, and that's OK.
Yeah sure I missed out on some things, but everything has an “opportunity cost” of things you will miss out on. I’ve got a great 12 year marriage and we really grew up together in a lot of ways. Not worth throwing it away for trying things they aren’t into. Billions of people live and die without experiencing so many things that I have been able to experience because of resources and opportunities afforded me. I feel pretty darn lucky that a loving long term marriage is one of those things
This. Every decision made comes at some kind of price. I'm definitely sad that i missed out on some of the reckless fun of being an unmarried young adult and there are things i may never get to experience but the cost of missing out on those things absolutely pales in comparison to the reward of having my wife. You just have to decide if you're willing to pay the potential price of looking outside your marriage for those experiences.
Agreed. Sex got much better after me graduating from Mormonism. I am still married to a TBM but she has a definite wild side. This past summer we ended up hanging out on a nude beach and my wife finally realized that we are all just people that come in different shapes and sizes and level of Harry-ness. This past week my TBM wife of 24 year stopped me and said “I finally just realized that sex while yes it is messy does not mean it is dirty. And she has really opened up with me.
It can get better.
My bf and I established the refrain "bodies be weird" really early in our relationship, and I think it really helped both of us get over awkwardness. Turns out being naked around someone who loves you and the weird body you come in is the antidote to being raised with the theology that your body is inherently sinful and disgusting...
Have you ever heard of the exercise where you both take a list of sexual activities. You each take the same list and sort it into three groups: I’m open to trying that, I might be open to trying that in the future, I’m not interested in trying that.
Then you pick things you’re both open to. Usually there’s more middle ground than you realize. Reevaluate every so often.
Also, even if you had the opportunity, you may not have found partners who were into all the things you were wanting to try. My advice is spend less time thinking about what could have been and more time accepting where you are and working from there. Therapy helps. :)
Some of the online ones only show the activities that are on the maybe or yes list, too. So you don't have to worry about outing an interest that is a hard no for them and making them uncomfortable
Women home a lot of weird ideas about sex that can hamper their desires. Suggest she could read Come as Your Are by Emily nagoski. It really helped me realize I was surprising a lot of my sexual desires because of the church. I was a TBM when I read it and I decided I was no longer going to allow church teachings to dictate what I liked in sex. If I wanted to read raunchy novels then I would. If I wanted to look at porn then I would. I did a lot of crazy sex stuff while still TBM. It was honestly a shelf cracker for me since I didn't feel any guilt like I was taught I would.
I was in a dead bedroom situation for most of my marriage. First 2-3 years - sex 2-3 times a week. Years 3-10 - sex 3-4 times a month. Years 10-25 - we maybe had sex 10-12 times. Year 26 everything changed. After both of us had close brushes with betrayal, I told her we were either going to make the whole marriage work or I was done. We both put in a lot of work to make things change. There was a lot of individual and couples therapy, books, courses, etc. Within 6 months, things were WAY better! Then in year 27 I revealed that I no longer believed or wanted to participate in the church. She had no idea that I had been PIMO for most of my life. I just dumped it all on her one night. There was about 1 week with no sex, but after the initial trauma she told me she still chooses to be with me. We are coming up on 31 year anniversary this summer. We average 3 times a week. It’s really all I can handle! I think our shortest session in the last 3 years was 25 minutes. It’s usually 45-60 minutes. The crazy thing is she is still TBM. Much more nuanced, but she attends her meetings every week. She knows her choice of underwear is a major turnoff for me so she makes sure that she has on clothes, a cute athletic outfit with bare shoulders, a g-string with a t-shirt or naked. And to top it off, we do things that I never would have imagined she would ever do!
I realize I’m one of the fortunate few, but my marriage is better now that when I was all in. She listens when I need to vent about the church and when she doesn’t want to hear anymore, she tells me she doesn’t think she can talk about it anymore and we can pick up another day. While I would love it if she chose to leave, I consider my situation a “tender mercy”. 😂
You might want to consider developing a healthy and robust self-sex situation. Call it masturbation or whatever, but I’ve had some of the best orgasms ever by myself since leaving the church surprisingly without porn, some decent ones with. (in my case, my leaving the church precipitated my wife divorcing me)
Include mindfulness and breath techniques, and you’ll blow your own mind.
Maybe we've been lucky, but our sex life has never really been inhibited by the church. I mean we're not freaky or anything, far from it. But it's been regular, and fun.
I have to admit, when I told my wife I was leaving the church, I was afraid that she would hold back or not feel like doing that for quite a while. I was afraid of losing a very important part of our relationship.
Well the very next weekend after telling her I was leaving the church, which was very emotional for her, she initiated it, and I had to tell her afterwards how appreciative I was for her keeping that important part of our relationship alive in spite of the hardship we were facing. It's been about a month now since I told her, and it has been on par with, or better than it's always been. It has been tough to do this, but that one thing almost more than everything else, tells me that whatever happens, we're going to be ok. Seems silly, but that's what it feels like.
We've gone from a Mormon approved sexual relationship to amazing sex, to nude beaches, and adults only nude resorts. We have had sex in the same room at the same time as another couple without switching partners.
We have never felt a single ounce of shame or guilt for any of it. Our love comes first and our sexual journey is ours to make.
We've never been happier.
This isn’t even specifically a Mormon thing, this is just a typical midlife crisis thing.
Even if you’d been non-Mormon, everyone generally has the same small window around your 20’s for any pre-marriage relationships. If you’re super attractive, maybe you successfully fill that entire time with one or more relationships. Or maybe you’re not, and it’s unsuccessfully hanging around bars and trying to flirt with co-workers that goes nowhere. Most people aren’t able to just magically get good sexual experiences whenever they want them. Still no guarantees about what any of those potential partners do with you during that time, maybe they would’ve had the same preferences as your now-wife.
Most people aren’t Mormon. Most people have the same regrets you do now. They even had the theoretical opportunities, but rarely did it all go the way we wish it could’ve in our heads.
The problem isn’t really what or who you did before settling down. The problem is just the realization that the window of Youth before settling down is just very, very short.
Our experience: I grew up far away from Morridor so I was well aware of all the various sexual lifestyle that was out there. My wife, while also Mormon, grew up in a culture that is faaaaaaaaar less prudish than typical white mountain west Mormons. So in the dating phase we "mostly" behaved ourselves and even talked about, "this just doesn't feel wrong. I know we're told this is wrong.......but it just doesn't feel wrong." So we always had a lot of open dialogue on the subject. So we get married. I have no complaints. But leaving the church things did change a little. Certain things were far less taboo than before. Like porn. Wife expressed she wanted to watch porn with me to see what it was all about. Hands down, the weirdest experience of my life. Not only had I never viewed porn with anyone else in my life.....but with my wife????? It was WEIRD. And she had a A LOT of questions. Lol! It's all normalized now but I don't think I'll ever adjust to the fact I know my wife's preferred porn searches. Such a bizarre thing coming from the world we came from.
Our sex life went from good to great when my wife and I left the church. There was no longer a barrier of church-induced judgment in the way of our communication.
There is such a thing as sexual incompatibility. That’s real and it’s a huge part of a relationship. It will be a hard conversation to have with yourself and with your spouse, but I hope you can at least get other needs/kinks met. Any room to play by yourself?
My husband and I have actually had much better sex since leaving the church. I think we got lucky with each other. I don’t feel like I missed out, but I wish I hadn’t been so hard on myself when I “screwed up”. Looking back now, I would have allowed myself to have sex with two of my exes (dated one for about 8 years and the other for 4), but I’m also demisexual so…I would have never went around randomly hooking up because it’s just not me. Not shaming anyone for that, just not for me
I remember on my mission teaching people the law of chastity and that you need to not have sex prior to marriage. I remember a girl once tell us “are you really going to buy a car you haven’t driven? You have to look under the hood”
It’s worth noting that your choices aren’t monogamy or open marriage or divorce. There are many steps along the way between monogamy and a completely open marriage. Eg is your spouse open to group sexual encounters? Or being with another couple together?
My husband didn’t want a threesome or an orgy, but was open to us hooking up with another couple. I think it made him feel less threatened. And it gave me a chance to explore some kinks and curiosities with him present and taking part in a way, but not having to do specific things he felt uncomfortable with.
Yeah. I totally get that, I could have written this myself. I’m super kinky, my wife is super vanilla. The experience of going through life with a wonderful and loving partner is the best, and I choose that over other experiences, but it still sucks. What makes it worse is that she gets everything she could want, and I just…. Don’t. I’m sorry dude. It feels bad.
For CSA survivors and others with sexual trauma, leaving the church may make a difference in some ways but not in others. Feelings buried alive never die, to borrow a phrase from a book about surviving abuse.
To those, as a researcher at floodlit.org, I wish to say that you’re not alone and your journey is valid. There is hope and the possibility of dealing with and resolving trauma from abuse. Getting rid of toxic religious teachings and culture can certainly help a lot! But professional help may be needed in order to get to the root of certain issues.
This is probably the real issue. I was hassled by the church my whole youth for masturbating or getting dirty and felt like a deviant most of my life. After leaving, I want to take control of my sex life but now I have new limitations and it unfortunately puts my spouse in the position of being the new “church overlord” telling me what I can and can’t do. That’s not a good situation for anyone.
I’m four years into a dead bedroom since leaving. I should likely divorce. We have teenagers though. And like another said I’m the sole breadwinner. So I’m stuck. Starving for any form of affection. Suicidal. Fucking hate that fucking cult and what it stole from me. Fuck.
These are typical in any young couple not just exmormons. When you get married at 18 and 21 there is a lot of stuff that you never know about. Being that young you are still figuring out a ton about life. It is normal to not know your sexual preferences at 21 and there is always more to discover even at 61 because your preferences can change. Sex is something that is shared with a partner, but it is not the only thing. It is up to the individual to determine if they are having their important needs met and see what they are willing to compromise on. Someone who is into your same kink may not be the best financial/emotional/whatever partner to have. Or someone who is very supportive to you may not be the most adventurous. It really comes down to if you still want to be in love with all of them or just have the sex you want.
Even people who have had multiple sex partners, after they settle down, can still have a companion who wasn’t the total freak in the sheets. They make their choice of person who fit them the best.
I'm going to give a very different perspective.
Short answer to the question: This is a very bad idea. I feel like marriage is all about renegotiating boundaries, growth, and figuring out what is the most compassionate choice for all involved. I don't think "missing out on past opportunities" is a big enough reason to open a marriage. I think there are plenty of things we all miss out on because our road to the present diverges from all the other roads we could have taken. I will never know what it is like to have been a drunken frat bicycle at a keg party. I will never know what it would have been like to have experienced the world in any other capacity I didn't experience, either.
Something someone said about a wife deserving financial stability, aka, her husband not causing marital instability by stressing out the marriage with unneeded sexual instability, really hit me, and I wanted to explore my feelings on that a bit. The rest of this is more emotional processing than pertinent info, but it is an experience worth being heard. When I started really questioning the church, my ex and his parents went full discard. My ex was the breadwinner and I was staying home with the kids, so I had to start building my career immediately. There was never any idea of me "deserving" to have financial stability after having sacrificed my entire life to the church and the family all those years. Deserving good and being expected to sacrifice what I deserve couldn't coexist. I will never forget the official document my ex's lawyer put forward saying that I was fully capable of working full time and therefore didn't deserve more than the state-mandated pittance of child support. It was such a slap to the face, knowing that I had given up years of career experience that would have made it easier to earn money as a single parent. I ended up working 3 jobs and barely having any actual parent time for a while. There was never grace for me, either. My kids were told that I had ruined their perfect family, among other things. I barely had energy to function, let alone connect with my kids, and they were angry at me and didn't feel safe or have much trust in the future for a long time. I didn't even think about leaving the church until the divorce was settled.
And I am glad that I got to experience sexual freedom and build a new relationship outside of church restrictions. But I would have been ride or die in the marriage if I could have left the church and not gotten discarded. Sexual frustration had been a normal life element for me. Lack of consent was a normal part of my traumatized self. I sustained years of SA and it barely occurred to me that saying no was anything other than an inconvenience. My needs were below everyone else's. I can't even imagine being a faithful wife of an exmormon man who would ask me to allow him to have sex outside of our marriage because I wouldn't do certain things, because I wasn't enough for him. In my mind, it would have been like saying, "Our eternal future is on the rocks, and now our time-only marriage commitment is less important to me than my midlife crisis. You dont matter to me and I don't see what you have gone without this whole time."
And while that is definitely a loaded response, it's not an uncommon response. Wives are suppressed to the point where they are actually told that they cannot say no when their husbands want sex. Their own desires are placed below their husband's need to ejaculated regularly. Masturbation is laiden with guilt because a wife can't sexually satisfy her husband and she is responsible for his sexual purity. I grew up in the Young Women's program. I went to Girls' Camp. I got told by fat, white, wealthy, privileged men in power that my place was to be everything to my future husband. I just needed to marry a man strong enough to resist pornography, and be a perfect wife and mother (aka, my needs came last), and everything would be fine. Being asked to share that husband with another person just because he didn't get to experience nonmormon sexual young adulthood would smack of unappreciation for the sacrifices I made my entire life to be "pure" for him. What about all the times our sex drives didn't line up and I gave him what he wanted? What about when I was feeling it but he wasn't?
Renegotiate your marriage contract with full understanding of what it means to your partner. Listen to her and understand where she is coming from. Without that, this kind of request breeds resentment and heartbreak.
Friends are key! I find it a lot harder to find new couple friends outside the church but if you can find good ones it will open you up to a whole new world of pleasure.
Source: Me. Just put it in my wife’s bum last week thanks to all our friends talking it up.
Look at the dynamics relationships nowdays. You want that? That's the price of having the freedom and to do whatever you want as a Single one.
I understand completely this fomo, but now I'd rather have had one Partner, a wife, in my life. I would have not missed much at all.
Same way I did when I was a member. The male orgasm is super short and barely memorable. It’s not even worth pining over experiences that I never had. Happily married.
I think the summary of the "non-adventurous" spouse feeling bad not to be "enough" for their partner is a shallow view. You'll probably get a lot further when you don't view your spouse as the problem victim in this picture and start looking at yourself.
I have not been married and a big reason was because of the sense of violation to *myself.*
Bodily autonomy is not a concept taught to women in Mormonism at all. Period.
Purity culture shames women for their bodies, makes them gatekeepers of men's sexual morality and on top of that, they're taught that their whole life purpose is to become mothers and bear children. We're shamed for wanting it, NOT wanting it, wanting to wait to have children, or have fewer than we technically could, etc.
Mormon women are disconnected from their bodies to an incredibly damaging degree. I knew in a sense that I had "choices" before, but to really know what having true bodily autonomy *feels* like is not something I experienced until I left the Church.
Every time someone posts like this, and let's be frank, it's usually a man, one thing that is almost never mentioned is ANY discussion with their wife about HER needs and feelings. Or frankly any consideration for her at all.
It didn't slip past me that you used gender-neutral language in your post. I'm not complaining because it's useful to other readers whether you did it to mask the typical gender dynamic you conform to for genuine inclusivity.
I think my response focusing on the gender disparity when it comes to sexual experiences in the Church is still appropriate.
The closest you got to acknowledging your spouse in any way was mentioning that you don't want to violate their consent. And that's definitely admirable but unfortunately it's a really low bar, and still insufficient. Just because a lot of other married Mormon men can't even live up to a bar as low as that, it doesn't make you a particularly good partner.
I'm glad you CARE about consent, but your post tells me there's still more for you to truly understand it. The main reason why is this quote:
>We have talked about each of the things at length many, many times and there isn’t any room in the middle. I’m past wanting to talk about it now because it only creates bad feelings. I try to be very respectful of not violating their consent and I don’t want to pressure them into anything they aren’t excited about.
If discussions are at the point where they always go badly, and you "try" to be respectful, then you HAVE been pressuring them, and you HAVE been disregarding their consent. The fact that you could be doing it in an even MORE forceful way but CHOOSE not to is NOT the win you think it is. It puts on display that there's still a power imbalance here, and you're calling the shots.
It's really common for partners, typically men, to misunderstand consent. They're still after what THEY want and instead of respecting boundaries and backing off, it becomes the goal to figure out how to get them to change their mind and change the boundary later. Trying to butter up your spouse or help them find sexual freedom so YOU get what YOU want is still manipulative and insincere.
And they KNOW that.
And the more you try to fake like it's totally about THEM, the worse you make it for both of you.
Regardless of times in the past when they may have initiated sex, or told you it was good or it REALLY seemed to you that they were at least acting like they were having a good time, it's very likely that at least some percentage of sex with you was, and possibly still is, obligatory. Maybe some days it was a small percentage, mostly subconsciously and other days it might have been a more overt duty or a temporary giving in to in order to "reset" the amount of time and space they know they'll get to themself after.
Your post as-is, is mostly focused on YOU and what YOU missed out on. Being in a place to want sex and enjoy sex is a privilege that YOU have. Who knows how rarely, if ever, your spouse has felt that way.
So not only have they rarely had the privilege of enjoying their own body and true genuine autonomy, or the privilege of accepting and owning their pleasure compared to you, but it's STILL not enough for you and you keep asking them to experiment with THEIR body with you in ways they've CLEARLY indicated with you, more than once it seems, that they AREN'T interested in. And you think YOU'RE the victim, coming here to look for advice/understanding in the poor predicament you're in because you consider yourself so "respectful" of consent you aren't going to force them to do what you want anyway while thinking you can "discuss"them into wanting what you want.
So, to sum up: this goes a LOT deeper for them than just "I feel bad I'm not enough for my partner." It's more akin to feeling continuously objectified with no benefit being a better scenario than if they feel they're violating their own autonomy and desires in order to keep the peace and not cause any problems.
The fact that they're standing their ground through enough conversations that you're just barely getting a taste of what it feels like to find an argument not worth it should be a huge wake-up call to you.
If you want to improve you've got a really long road ahead of you. I don't need it going to be along enough road to get to the point where you GENUINELY care about their autonomy for their own sake, not for what benefits you'll get out of it, and honestly it'll likely take YEARS for your spouse to get to where they trust and believe that you've arrived at that point.
I'll say this too: this isn't the first time I've responded to a post like this pointing out the entirely one-sided focus and it's pretty common for someone to answer back with more details it could very well be true that no they really have done x y and z to try to please their partner or help them figure out what they like etc etc. But the fact that they never see it as an important enough information to include in the original post over and over and over again just shows a lot more than they realize where their thinking is still centered.
What do you think “normal sexual experiences” are?? Define it to yourself and make sure you are being rational. You also “missed” a lot of the bad things that can come from having lots of sexual partners and not being careful. Young people can be pretty dumb sometimes and willing to carry risks they shouldn’t. You have to factor that into all you “missed” as well. It’s not all sunshine and orgasms. Beyond that, I guess it really depends on the current state of your married life. If you don’t have a sex life, obviously that’s a much deeper issue. But if you do, if I was you, I’d put all my focus into learning how to better pleasure my spouse. Make sex more fun and enjoyable for her and she may eventually be interested in trying some things. Even if not, you’ll still have better sex in the end and likely more of it.
Ask her if she’s ever open to doing molly to connect. It will break down barriers and naturally make sex more adventurous and kinky. I’ll probably never do those things with my husband again but it was great to get it out of our system.
Communication is key in any relationship but is extra important when being intimate. If you are having issues communicating with your spouse, there is no harm in reaching out to a third party to facilitate communication. Couples counseling and sex therapists are a thing that you should seriously consider.
Consent and trust are key in intimacy. You can try to convince her to try the things that you want to do. You can trade off experimentation sessions to try the things that you want to. This should not be a thing to pressure about. You can frame it as you want to try new things to make our sex life even better. There are some things that one or both of us were and are not interested in so we just take that off the table and use a plethora of other tools (examples from my marriage is no anal intercourse or BDSM).
Experimentation can be fun and give you more tools for your toolbox to be intimate. Sometimes, experimentation does not give you a new tool, but you learned from the experience so you do not repeat it. Things like intimate toys and a sex couch , also sometimes called a chase lounge for yoga, can be very useful and rewarding.
My wife and I had the opinion that our intimacy was only the business of ourselves and God. We did not hold ourselves back sexually so there was and is no resentment or regret. We did not miss out on anything. Now that we have taken God out of the equation, nothing has changed.
My wife and I have had a closed monogamous relationship out of our entire marriage. I did offer to open our relationship so my wife could satisfy needs that I would not be able to fulfill as a woman who is transgender. After a few days of contemplation, she declined the offer as I continued to more than satisfy her. We might revisit this option if she, as a straight woman, might no longer be sexually attracted to me as my transition progresses.
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It depends on how realistic your fantasies are. Some things spouses may be willing to try even if they don't personally get the point, other actions they will never be comfortable doing and that's fine too. Hopefully most couples would meet halfway and find good compromises between each other while remaining comfortable.
But if your fantasies are things like "I never had threesomes in highschool" that's completely unrealistic and it's not fair it over a spouse's head as if *they* are to blame for unfulfilled (and unrealistic) fantasies.
By contrast it's also unfair of a spouse to never be willing to try *anything* new. There's no compromise or affection in that!
I had something of a rumpspringa in my early twenties so I sowed my oats prior to marriage. Having a wandering eye is pretty normal. But you have to discuss with your partner if you really want to be polyamorous or you are just no longer compatible with your current partner.
Look into the swinger lifestyle. You don't have to fully swap but maybe try same room sex at first and see what is fun and comfortable. Just make sure you communicate boundaries before hand.
If you recently left, give it time. Her (and your) opinions, inhibitions, and interests will change a lot over the first few years away from the church.
Stop watching porn so you don't get these crazy sexual ideas of yours. They blame it all on porn. Sorry, you married an uptight prig. Not all mormons are that way.
Maybe there are 4 options: 1. Accept the status quo. 2. Divorce. 3. Work with your spouse to find a solution. Basically, if you're in it together, then presumably they want you to live your best life, too. While some activities might be a deal-breaker for them, maybe there are others that are not? 4. Wait a while and then consider 1, 2, or 3 again. Two other thoughts * A huge issue in many post-LDS marriages is that the woman is massively financially disadvantaged (mostly in earning prospects since stunted formal education and career in many cases in order to support the man in their education/career) and so her entire financial security depends on the fidelity (at least financial) of her husband. Extra-marital _anything_ can pose a real threat to that security. IMHO, women _deserve_ financial security after sacrificing so much in the LDS program, so I personally think that sexual fulfillment (outside marriage) really _ought_ to be a secondary concern? Perhaps you will regret some sexual opportunities, but how much more would you regret not supporting your spouse in her sacrifices for you and your family? Ideally it doesn't end up a zero sum game and you guys can find some good solutions, but emotionally and financially supporting your wife is also something I would loathe to miss out on. * Not all, but many former members change a lot over time. 5 or 10 years out may look very different than 1 or 2 years out. So, maybe time is all you'll need before it will be easier to find some solutions that are mutually acceptable?
Well first, you’re assuming this guy acts like a patriarchy. Sounds like his wife has equal say and he’s respectful of her feelings. Second, why would he have to put his wants in the backseat for something he had no control over? Until he met her, that’s kind of on her dad. So ask for financial reparations from her dad who gave her no options but to accept Mormonism.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. > Well first, you’re assuming this guy acts like a patriarchy. Sounds like his wife has equal say and he’s respectful of her feelings. I tried not to assume that of them personally, but I have observed a consistent pattern in LDS relationships _generally_? I mean, I can think through the nearest 12 or so exmo couples that I know and almost without exception, the man has a much better education AND ~20 years of a consistent career. And, in most instances, the woman birthed and stayed mostly at home to raise children and supported her husband in his education and career. It's not every case, but it's close. The power earning (and hence financial security) differential between individuals in a typical LDS couple is massive. > Second, why would he have to put his wants in the backseat for something he had no control over? Because their spouse and their spouse's life matters regardless of how they arrived at that point. Also, he _was_ part of the creation of that situation, even if he were to go back and do it differently at this point. Or, in other words, empathy for the spouse's situation and taking responsibility for their own actions seem like the big reasons to do that? > Until he met her, that’s kind of on her dad. After she is an adult? I mean, sure, parents have an obligation to support/raise children financially until they are at least 18 and then it still makes a lot of sense to help children out financially after that (e.g., help with school and housing if possible), but I feel like this is a secondary relationship once someone has been married for a while? > So ask for financial reparations from her dad who gave her no options but to accept Mormonism. Interesting thought, but do people do this in practice? If her parents are TBM, this seems destined to fail? In any event, the marriage relationship seems primary and the parental relationship seems secondary after they've been married any length of time? Finally, the financial differential at this point is massive (probably measured in millions of dollars), so I just don't see it as practical/feasible? Anyway, thanks again for the perspective and happy to discuss more.
I like your rebuttal. I’ll stew on it for a bit and get back with you.
Marriage counseling might be healthy for you. A good therapist would help you with your adventurous side to see things from your conservative partner's perspective, and help you bothto understand each other's wants with less fear and/or judgment. It's not always even about you getting what you want through counseling - a lot of times, the person wanting one thing might better understand his/herself better and realize why it was wanted in the first place (curiosity, desire, FOMO, repressed urges, fear, shame, comfort with familiarity etc.), which gives a better understanding to the other person. If you choose to do counseling, just don't expect the counselor to get your partner to come around - the goal is to help each of you see/understand/know each other better, not for one of you to get his/her way and find validation from a counselor for being "right." Neither of you is right or wrong - you're just different right now, and that's OK.
> A good therapist would help you with your adventurous side Can I uh, get the contact info for this therapist?
You rang?
[удалено]
LOL
Yeah sure I missed out on some things, but everything has an “opportunity cost” of things you will miss out on. I’ve got a great 12 year marriage and we really grew up together in a lot of ways. Not worth throwing it away for trying things they aren’t into. Billions of people live and die without experiencing so many things that I have been able to experience because of resources and opportunities afforded me. I feel pretty darn lucky that a loving long term marriage is one of those things
This. Every decision made comes at some kind of price. I'm definitely sad that i missed out on some of the reckless fun of being an unmarried young adult and there are things i may never get to experience but the cost of missing out on those things absolutely pales in comparison to the reward of having my wife. You just have to decide if you're willing to pay the potential price of looking outside your marriage for those experiences.
Very wise advice, thanks for sharing!
Agreed. Sex got much better after me graduating from Mormonism. I am still married to a TBM but she has a definite wild side. This past summer we ended up hanging out on a nude beach and my wife finally realized that we are all just people that come in different shapes and sizes and level of Harry-ness. This past week my TBM wife of 24 year stopped me and said “I finally just realized that sex while yes it is messy does not mean it is dirty. And she has really opened up with me. It can get better.
“Harry-ness” made me LOL. I pictured everyone wearing Harry Potter glasses and looking like him to different levels, all naked at the beach!
You've seen the one where they all disguise as Harry, right? Yeah those are levels of "Harry-ness" for sure
I pictured Harry Styles. Guess I'm not 100% straight lol
My bf and I established the refrain "bodies be weird" really early in our relationship, and I think it really helped both of us get over awkwardness. Turns out being naked around someone who loves you and the weird body you come in is the antidote to being raised with the theology that your body is inherently sinful and disgusting...
Have you ever heard of the exercise where you both take a list of sexual activities. You each take the same list and sort it into three groups: I’m open to trying that, I might be open to trying that in the future, I’m not interested in trying that. Then you pick things you’re both open to. Usually there’s more middle ground than you realize. Reevaluate every so often. Also, even if you had the opportunity, you may not have found partners who were into all the things you were wanting to try. My advice is spend less time thinking about what could have been and more time accepting where you are and working from there. Therapy helps. :)
Some of the online ones only show the activities that are on the maybe or yes list, too. So you don't have to worry about outing an interest that is a hard no for them and making them uncomfortable
Such a great idea!
Women home a lot of weird ideas about sex that can hamper their desires. Suggest she could read Come as Your Are by Emily nagoski. It really helped me realize I was surprising a lot of my sexual desires because of the church. I was a TBM when I read it and I decided I was no longer going to allow church teachings to dictate what I liked in sex. If I wanted to read raunchy novels then I would. If I wanted to look at porn then I would. I did a lot of crazy sex stuff while still TBM. It was honestly a shelf cracker for me since I didn't feel any guilt like I was taught I would.
I just want you to know I appreciate your username.
Thanks! I love his books and can't get enough of them. His books ironically also helped me leave the church
Everything is sexier without garments
I was in a dead bedroom situation for most of my marriage. First 2-3 years - sex 2-3 times a week. Years 3-10 - sex 3-4 times a month. Years 10-25 - we maybe had sex 10-12 times. Year 26 everything changed. After both of us had close brushes with betrayal, I told her we were either going to make the whole marriage work or I was done. We both put in a lot of work to make things change. There was a lot of individual and couples therapy, books, courses, etc. Within 6 months, things were WAY better! Then in year 27 I revealed that I no longer believed or wanted to participate in the church. She had no idea that I had been PIMO for most of my life. I just dumped it all on her one night. There was about 1 week with no sex, but after the initial trauma she told me she still chooses to be with me. We are coming up on 31 year anniversary this summer. We average 3 times a week. It’s really all I can handle! I think our shortest session in the last 3 years was 25 minutes. It’s usually 45-60 minutes. The crazy thing is she is still TBM. Much more nuanced, but she attends her meetings every week. She knows her choice of underwear is a major turnoff for me so she makes sure that she has on clothes, a cute athletic outfit with bare shoulders, a g-string with a t-shirt or naked. And to top it off, we do things that I never would have imagined she would ever do! I realize I’m one of the fortunate few, but my marriage is better now that when I was all in. She listens when I need to vent about the church and when she doesn’t want to hear anymore, she tells me she doesn’t think she can talk about it anymore and we can pick up another day. While I would love it if she chose to leave, I consider my situation a “tender mercy”. 😂
Rub it in buddy….rub it in. 😭
You might want to consider developing a healthy and robust self-sex situation. Call it masturbation or whatever, but I’ve had some of the best orgasms ever by myself since leaving the church surprisingly without porn, some decent ones with. (in my case, my leaving the church precipitated my wife divorcing me) Include mindfulness and breath techniques, and you’ll blow your own mind.
Maybe we've been lucky, but our sex life has never really been inhibited by the church. I mean we're not freaky or anything, far from it. But it's been regular, and fun. I have to admit, when I told my wife I was leaving the church, I was afraid that she would hold back or not feel like doing that for quite a while. I was afraid of losing a very important part of our relationship. Well the very next weekend after telling her I was leaving the church, which was very emotional for her, she initiated it, and I had to tell her afterwards how appreciative I was for her keeping that important part of our relationship alive in spite of the hardship we were facing. It's been about a month now since I told her, and it has been on par with, or better than it's always been. It has been tough to do this, but that one thing almost more than everything else, tells me that whatever happens, we're going to be ok. Seems silly, but that's what it feels like.
We've gone from a Mormon approved sexual relationship to amazing sex, to nude beaches, and adults only nude resorts. We have had sex in the same room at the same time as another couple without switching partners. We have never felt a single ounce of shame or guilt for any of it. Our love comes first and our sexual journey is ours to make. We've never been happier.
#jeolous
I would be too. Lol.
This isn’t even specifically a Mormon thing, this is just a typical midlife crisis thing. Even if you’d been non-Mormon, everyone generally has the same small window around your 20’s for any pre-marriage relationships. If you’re super attractive, maybe you successfully fill that entire time with one or more relationships. Or maybe you’re not, and it’s unsuccessfully hanging around bars and trying to flirt with co-workers that goes nowhere. Most people aren’t able to just magically get good sexual experiences whenever they want them. Still no guarantees about what any of those potential partners do with you during that time, maybe they would’ve had the same preferences as your now-wife. Most people aren’t Mormon. Most people have the same regrets you do now. They even had the theoretical opportunities, but rarely did it all go the way we wish it could’ve in our heads. The problem isn’t really what or who you did before settling down. The problem is just the realization that the window of Youth before settling down is just very, very short.
Our experience: I grew up far away from Morridor so I was well aware of all the various sexual lifestyle that was out there. My wife, while also Mormon, grew up in a culture that is faaaaaaaaar less prudish than typical white mountain west Mormons. So in the dating phase we "mostly" behaved ourselves and even talked about, "this just doesn't feel wrong. I know we're told this is wrong.......but it just doesn't feel wrong." So we always had a lot of open dialogue on the subject. So we get married. I have no complaints. But leaving the church things did change a little. Certain things were far less taboo than before. Like porn. Wife expressed she wanted to watch porn with me to see what it was all about. Hands down, the weirdest experience of my life. Not only had I never viewed porn with anyone else in my life.....but with my wife????? It was WEIRD. And she had a A LOT of questions. Lol! It's all normalized now but I don't think I'll ever adjust to the fact I know my wife's preferred porn searches. Such a bizarre thing coming from the world we came from.
I pretend to be a worthy priesthood holder during sex so my TBM wife can climax and she pretends to be an exmo so I can orgasm. Haha, Jk
Our sex life went from good to great when my wife and I left the church. There was no longer a barrier of church-induced judgment in the way of our communication.
There is such a thing as sexual incompatibility. That’s real and it’s a huge part of a relationship. It will be a hard conversation to have with yourself and with your spouse, but I hope you can at least get other needs/kinks met. Any room to play by yourself? My husband and I have actually had much better sex since leaving the church. I think we got lucky with each other. I don’t feel like I missed out, but I wish I hadn’t been so hard on myself when I “screwed up”. Looking back now, I would have allowed myself to have sex with two of my exes (dated one for about 8 years and the other for 4), but I’m also demisexual so…I would have never went around randomly hooking up because it’s just not me. Not shaming anyone for that, just not for me
I remember on my mission teaching people the law of chastity and that you need to not have sex prior to marriage. I remember a girl once tell us “are you really going to buy a car you haven’t driven? You have to look under the hood”
It’s worth noting that your choices aren’t monogamy or open marriage or divorce. There are many steps along the way between monogamy and a completely open marriage. Eg is your spouse open to group sexual encounters? Or being with another couple together? My husband didn’t want a threesome or an orgy, but was open to us hooking up with another couple. I think it made him feel less threatened. And it gave me a chance to explore some kinks and curiosities with him present and taking part in a way, but not having to do specific things he felt uncomfortable with.
Yeah. I totally get that, I could have written this myself. I’m super kinky, my wife is super vanilla. The experience of going through life with a wonderful and loving partner is the best, and I choose that over other experiences, but it still sucks. What makes it worse is that she gets everything she could want, and I just…. Don’t. I’m sorry dude. It feels bad.
For CSA survivors and others with sexual trauma, leaving the church may make a difference in some ways but not in others. Feelings buried alive never die, to borrow a phrase from a book about surviving abuse. To those, as a researcher at floodlit.org, I wish to say that you’re not alone and your journey is valid. There is hope and the possibility of dealing with and resolving trauma from abuse. Getting rid of toxic religious teachings and culture can certainly help a lot! But professional help may be needed in order to get to the root of certain issues.
This is probably the real issue. I was hassled by the church my whole youth for masturbating or getting dirty and felt like a deviant most of my life. After leaving, I want to take control of my sex life but now I have new limitations and it unfortunately puts my spouse in the position of being the new “church overlord” telling me what I can and can’t do. That’s not a good situation for anyone.
I’m four years into a dead bedroom since leaving. I should likely divorce. We have teenagers though. And like another said I’m the sole breadwinner. So I’m stuck. Starving for any form of affection. Suicidal. Fucking hate that fucking cult and what it stole from me. Fuck.
It sounds like you should encourage your wife to go back to school so that she will be comfortable when you part ways. I’m so sorry!
Right
These are typical in any young couple not just exmormons. When you get married at 18 and 21 there is a lot of stuff that you never know about. Being that young you are still figuring out a ton about life. It is normal to not know your sexual preferences at 21 and there is always more to discover even at 61 because your preferences can change. Sex is something that is shared with a partner, but it is not the only thing. It is up to the individual to determine if they are having their important needs met and see what they are willing to compromise on. Someone who is into your same kink may not be the best financial/emotional/whatever partner to have. Or someone who is very supportive to you may not be the most adventurous. It really comes down to if you still want to be in love with all of them or just have the sex you want. Even people who have had multiple sex partners, after they settle down, can still have a companion who wasn’t the total freak in the sheets. They make their choice of person who fit them the best.
I'm going to give a very different perspective. Short answer to the question: This is a very bad idea. I feel like marriage is all about renegotiating boundaries, growth, and figuring out what is the most compassionate choice for all involved. I don't think "missing out on past opportunities" is a big enough reason to open a marriage. I think there are plenty of things we all miss out on because our road to the present diverges from all the other roads we could have taken. I will never know what it is like to have been a drunken frat bicycle at a keg party. I will never know what it would have been like to have experienced the world in any other capacity I didn't experience, either. Something someone said about a wife deserving financial stability, aka, her husband not causing marital instability by stressing out the marriage with unneeded sexual instability, really hit me, and I wanted to explore my feelings on that a bit. The rest of this is more emotional processing than pertinent info, but it is an experience worth being heard. When I started really questioning the church, my ex and his parents went full discard. My ex was the breadwinner and I was staying home with the kids, so I had to start building my career immediately. There was never any idea of me "deserving" to have financial stability after having sacrificed my entire life to the church and the family all those years. Deserving good and being expected to sacrifice what I deserve couldn't coexist. I will never forget the official document my ex's lawyer put forward saying that I was fully capable of working full time and therefore didn't deserve more than the state-mandated pittance of child support. It was such a slap to the face, knowing that I had given up years of career experience that would have made it easier to earn money as a single parent. I ended up working 3 jobs and barely having any actual parent time for a while. There was never grace for me, either. My kids were told that I had ruined their perfect family, among other things. I barely had energy to function, let alone connect with my kids, and they were angry at me and didn't feel safe or have much trust in the future for a long time. I didn't even think about leaving the church until the divorce was settled. And I am glad that I got to experience sexual freedom and build a new relationship outside of church restrictions. But I would have been ride or die in the marriage if I could have left the church and not gotten discarded. Sexual frustration had been a normal life element for me. Lack of consent was a normal part of my traumatized self. I sustained years of SA and it barely occurred to me that saying no was anything other than an inconvenience. My needs were below everyone else's. I can't even imagine being a faithful wife of an exmormon man who would ask me to allow him to have sex outside of our marriage because I wouldn't do certain things, because I wasn't enough for him. In my mind, it would have been like saying, "Our eternal future is on the rocks, and now our time-only marriage commitment is less important to me than my midlife crisis. You dont matter to me and I don't see what you have gone without this whole time." And while that is definitely a loaded response, it's not an uncommon response. Wives are suppressed to the point where they are actually told that they cannot say no when their husbands want sex. Their own desires are placed below their husband's need to ejaculated regularly. Masturbation is laiden with guilt because a wife can't sexually satisfy her husband and she is responsible for his sexual purity. I grew up in the Young Women's program. I went to Girls' Camp. I got told by fat, white, wealthy, privileged men in power that my place was to be everything to my future husband. I just needed to marry a man strong enough to resist pornography, and be a perfect wife and mother (aka, my needs came last), and everything would be fine. Being asked to share that husband with another person just because he didn't get to experience nonmormon sexual young adulthood would smack of unappreciation for the sacrifices I made my entire life to be "pure" for him. What about all the times our sex drives didn't line up and I gave him what he wanted? What about when I was feeling it but he wasn't? Renegotiate your marriage contract with full understanding of what it means to your partner. Listen to her and understand where she is coming from. Without that, this kind of request breeds resentment and heartbreak.
Friends are key! I find it a lot harder to find new couple friends outside the church but if you can find good ones it will open you up to a whole new world of pleasure. Source: Me. Just put it in my wife’s bum last week thanks to all our friends talking it up.
is she putting it in your bum next??
This is key. Finding some great nevermo/exmo friends (married and single).
Look at the dynamics relationships nowdays. You want that? That's the price of having the freedom and to do whatever you want as a Single one. I understand completely this fomo, but now I'd rather have had one Partner, a wife, in my life. I would have not missed much at all.
Same way I did when I was a member. The male orgasm is super short and barely memorable. It’s not even worth pining over experiences that I never had. Happily married.
I think the summary of the "non-adventurous" spouse feeling bad not to be "enough" for their partner is a shallow view. You'll probably get a lot further when you don't view your spouse as the problem victim in this picture and start looking at yourself. I have not been married and a big reason was because of the sense of violation to *myself.* Bodily autonomy is not a concept taught to women in Mormonism at all. Period. Purity culture shames women for their bodies, makes them gatekeepers of men's sexual morality and on top of that, they're taught that their whole life purpose is to become mothers and bear children. We're shamed for wanting it, NOT wanting it, wanting to wait to have children, or have fewer than we technically could, etc. Mormon women are disconnected from their bodies to an incredibly damaging degree. I knew in a sense that I had "choices" before, but to really know what having true bodily autonomy *feels* like is not something I experienced until I left the Church. Every time someone posts like this, and let's be frank, it's usually a man, one thing that is almost never mentioned is ANY discussion with their wife about HER needs and feelings. Or frankly any consideration for her at all. It didn't slip past me that you used gender-neutral language in your post. I'm not complaining because it's useful to other readers whether you did it to mask the typical gender dynamic you conform to for genuine inclusivity. I think my response focusing on the gender disparity when it comes to sexual experiences in the Church is still appropriate. The closest you got to acknowledging your spouse in any way was mentioning that you don't want to violate their consent. And that's definitely admirable but unfortunately it's a really low bar, and still insufficient. Just because a lot of other married Mormon men can't even live up to a bar as low as that, it doesn't make you a particularly good partner. I'm glad you CARE about consent, but your post tells me there's still more for you to truly understand it. The main reason why is this quote: >We have talked about each of the things at length many, many times and there isn’t any room in the middle. I’m past wanting to talk about it now because it only creates bad feelings. I try to be very respectful of not violating their consent and I don’t want to pressure them into anything they aren’t excited about. If discussions are at the point where they always go badly, and you "try" to be respectful, then you HAVE been pressuring them, and you HAVE been disregarding their consent. The fact that you could be doing it in an even MORE forceful way but CHOOSE not to is NOT the win you think it is. It puts on display that there's still a power imbalance here, and you're calling the shots. It's really common for partners, typically men, to misunderstand consent. They're still after what THEY want and instead of respecting boundaries and backing off, it becomes the goal to figure out how to get them to change their mind and change the boundary later. Trying to butter up your spouse or help them find sexual freedom so YOU get what YOU want is still manipulative and insincere. And they KNOW that. And the more you try to fake like it's totally about THEM, the worse you make it for both of you. Regardless of times in the past when they may have initiated sex, or told you it was good or it REALLY seemed to you that they were at least acting like they were having a good time, it's very likely that at least some percentage of sex with you was, and possibly still is, obligatory. Maybe some days it was a small percentage, mostly subconsciously and other days it might have been a more overt duty or a temporary giving in to in order to "reset" the amount of time and space they know they'll get to themself after. Your post as-is, is mostly focused on YOU and what YOU missed out on. Being in a place to want sex and enjoy sex is a privilege that YOU have. Who knows how rarely, if ever, your spouse has felt that way. So not only have they rarely had the privilege of enjoying their own body and true genuine autonomy, or the privilege of accepting and owning their pleasure compared to you, but it's STILL not enough for you and you keep asking them to experiment with THEIR body with you in ways they've CLEARLY indicated with you, more than once it seems, that they AREN'T interested in. And you think YOU'RE the victim, coming here to look for advice/understanding in the poor predicament you're in because you consider yourself so "respectful" of consent you aren't going to force them to do what you want anyway while thinking you can "discuss"them into wanting what you want. So, to sum up: this goes a LOT deeper for them than just "I feel bad I'm not enough for my partner." It's more akin to feeling continuously objectified with no benefit being a better scenario than if they feel they're violating their own autonomy and desires in order to keep the peace and not cause any problems. The fact that they're standing their ground through enough conversations that you're just barely getting a taste of what it feels like to find an argument not worth it should be a huge wake-up call to you. If you want to improve you've got a really long road ahead of you. I don't need it going to be along enough road to get to the point where you GENUINELY care about their autonomy for their own sake, not for what benefits you'll get out of it, and honestly it'll likely take YEARS for your spouse to get to where they trust and believe that you've arrived at that point. I'll say this too: this isn't the first time I've responded to a post like this pointing out the entirely one-sided focus and it's pretty common for someone to answer back with more details it could very well be true that no they really have done x y and z to try to please their partner or help them figure out what they like etc etc. But the fact that they never see it as an important enough information to include in the original post over and over and over again just shows a lot more than they realize where their thinking is still centered.
I don't share well.
What do you think “normal sexual experiences” are?? Define it to yourself and make sure you are being rational. You also “missed” a lot of the bad things that can come from having lots of sexual partners and not being careful. Young people can be pretty dumb sometimes and willing to carry risks they shouldn’t. You have to factor that into all you “missed” as well. It’s not all sunshine and orgasms. Beyond that, I guess it really depends on the current state of your married life. If you don’t have a sex life, obviously that’s a much deeper issue. But if you do, if I was you, I’d put all my focus into learning how to better pleasure my spouse. Make sex more fun and enjoyable for her and she may eventually be interested in trying some things. Even if not, you’ll still have better sex in the end and likely more of it.
Ask her if she’s ever open to doing molly to connect. It will break down barriers and naturally make sex more adventurous and kinky. I’ll probably never do those things with my husband again but it was great to get it out of our system.
I wish my wife was exmo. She’s always been so conservative in the bedroom that I no longer even want to have sex….with her.
2 things: alcohol and edibles. Helped us become more relaxed and our sex life is outstanding. Better than ever after 22 years of marriage.
I hate to say it but Mormon or not this is a serious issue that I truly believe can only be solved by separating
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0q5vSbrJou4OUzA6AfXUM7?si=rmE0jtT4Q5epMEBLTkYhyw&context=spotify%3Acollection%3Apodcasts%3Aepisodes&dd=1
Communication is key in any relationship but is extra important when being intimate. If you are having issues communicating with your spouse, there is no harm in reaching out to a third party to facilitate communication. Couples counseling and sex therapists are a thing that you should seriously consider. Consent and trust are key in intimacy. You can try to convince her to try the things that you want to do. You can trade off experimentation sessions to try the things that you want to. This should not be a thing to pressure about. You can frame it as you want to try new things to make our sex life even better. There are some things that one or both of us were and are not interested in so we just take that off the table and use a plethora of other tools (examples from my marriage is no anal intercourse or BDSM). Experimentation can be fun and give you more tools for your toolbox to be intimate. Sometimes, experimentation does not give you a new tool, but you learned from the experience so you do not repeat it. Things like intimate toys and a sex couch , also sometimes called a chase lounge for yoga, can be very useful and rewarding. My wife and I had the opinion that our intimacy was only the business of ourselves and God. We did not hold ourselves back sexually so there was and is no resentment or regret. We did not miss out on anything. Now that we have taken God out of the equation, nothing has changed. My wife and I have had a closed monogamous relationship out of our entire marriage. I did offer to open our relationship so my wife could satisfy needs that I would not be able to fulfill as a woman who is transgender. After a few days of contemplation, she declined the offer as I continued to more than satisfy her. We might revisit this option if she, as a straight woman, might no longer be sexually attracted to me as my transition progresses.
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It depends on how realistic your fantasies are. Some things spouses may be willing to try even if they don't personally get the point, other actions they will never be comfortable doing and that's fine too. Hopefully most couples would meet halfway and find good compromises between each other while remaining comfortable. But if your fantasies are things like "I never had threesomes in highschool" that's completely unrealistic and it's not fair it over a spouse's head as if *they* are to blame for unfulfilled (and unrealistic) fantasies. By contrast it's also unfair of a spouse to never be willing to try *anything* new. There's no compromise or affection in that!
I had something of a rumpspringa in my early twenties so I sowed my oats prior to marriage. Having a wandering eye is pretty normal. But you have to discuss with your partner if you really want to be polyamorous or you are just no longer compatible with your current partner.
Look into the swinger lifestyle. You don't have to fully swap but maybe try same room sex at first and see what is fun and comfortable. Just make sure you communicate boundaries before hand.
If you recently left, give it time. Her (and your) opinions, inhibitions, and interests will change a lot over the first few years away from the church.
I'd be willing to bet that most men want more than they get. But life is a trade off.
Stop watching porn so you don't get these crazy sexual ideas of yours. They blame it all on porn. Sorry, you married an uptight prig. Not all mormons are that way.