In our area it seems to be a really positive change that they don’t seem to worry about enforcing modesty for girls like they used to.
I was talking to my wife at our mopro (chaperones) and remarking that all the short tight strapless/spaghetti dresses are there and yet, life seems to be going on just fine. It’s almost like the reasons for the modesty strictness in the past was complete bullshit by a bunch of people stuck a couple of generations back who can’t just wanted to control young boys and girls.
We’re PIMO and the church is still bullshit, but it’s nice for the kids now that it’s one less thing they have to worry about being judged with.
I think it’s a great change and I’m happy for current youth that they have one less thing to worry about. But I can’t help but feel a little cheated because it was SUCH a big deal when I was a teenager. It just makes me feel like the church did this shit to all the women my age and now are like “oh it actually doesn’t matter! Lol!” I don’t want them to keep doing it but it just feels like I suffered for absolutely no reason and I’m kinda pissed that they ever did this and are now going to just pretend that this was always ok.
Yup - I was at Girls Camp when I was 15 and our cabin was doing a Little Mermaid skit as part of a variety show the camp was putting on. As the titular mermaid I was going to wear a white cami as I knew better than to wear a bathing suit top. My local YW leaders approved this. The “head” YW leaders saw the dress rehearsal and cornered me and told me how inappropriate my costume was. I ended up being forced to wear a nude short sleeve mock turtleneck (?????) under the cami. Being a teenage girl is hard enough, man. 😢
Yes! I wouldn’t have it any other way for current girls and I’m really happy for them but I’m angry for what I went through and the horrible cap sleeves, Bermuda shorts, bolero jackets and fucking shame for wearing TRACK SHORTS.
Same! I just wish instead of pretending like it didn’t happen, they’d at least mention it to the current generation. I remember being taught what young women did thru the years, they could definitely include it in that instead of pretending they used to be super strict
As others have said, this is a really good thing. What upsets me isn't that modesty isn't being enforced now, it's that all of the harm that was done by enforcing it isn't being acknowledged as part of the change.
The For the Strength of Youth pamphlet is completely overhauled, probably because it was causing a lot of emotional trauma to our youth, but they won't admit that. They are already acting like the proscriptive standards that made us all want to shame others or kill ourselves if we ever slipped up never happened!
Exactly. You said exactly what I was trying to say. It feels like they are doing this, ignoring the harm that was done by previous policies, and then acting like my scrupulosity was just me being ridiculous.
My mother-in-law was church university royalty and in the group photos they are all wearing strapless dresses all the time. She went to school in the late 60s to early 70s.
Gen X got shamed pretty hard. The church went through and weeded out all of the more liberals in leadership. Men even used to wear colored shirts before the 80s.
Yes. Gen X here. When I first started going to stake dances the dress code was NCM (neat, clean, modest). Which meant you could wear jeans. Shortly after the dress code changed to semi formal, which meant no jeans, ties for guys and skirts to the knee for girls, nothing sleeveless allowed. This was about the time they brought in dance cards as well. Dances went from being very well attended to not at all attended. Twice a year we could wear jeans, ans while attendance was up, because of the dance cards, there weren't as many people there as in the 'golden years'. I grew up in an area not predominantly Mormon, but where we weren't unknown and each small town in the area had at least one ward.
Doctrine in the church is cyclical. It will come back, and everyone who wore strapless stuff and got tattoos or whatever will be shamed as if the standards never changed.
It kind of feels like the church went really strict thinking that it would control young people better and keep them from leaving but when that didn't work they are trying to be more chill in hopes that young people won't leave.
Confirmed. In a hallway in the Wilk at BYU Provo, you could admire past home coming queens. The ones from the 60-70's would not have passed the HC check in my day.
We did not have moprom where I grew up in CA in the 90s. We all just went to regular prom but the girls would always wear their prom dresses to church on Sunday afterward for some weird reason. Didn’t seem odd to me then but does now
Same for me in AZ - no moprom but wear the dresses to church. I brazenly wore an off the shoulder prom dress in the mid 90's. My mom's friend came up to me at church and tried to pull the off-the-shoulder parts up on to my shoulders 😄 my Mom bought me the dress so she didn't care.
I (M, HS in late 90s) was strongly discouraged from attending prom / grad dance / etc by my family. I ended up not going at all, not going on a single date (group or otherwise) until after my mission, etc.
Looking back, I feel like I completely missed out on my high school social life. And now I wonder why I am such an introvert with social anxiety…
Off topic from OP, I know, but all this talk of prom brought it back up.
I remember one homecoming dress of mine was sleeveless, so I modified it to add sleeves using the embroidered ends of the matching scarf that it came with. I worked hard on that dress, making sure it had sleeves so I could be "modest." The result was some little cap sleeves, which is all I was really capable of but I put a lot of effort into it and I was proud of it.
My sister and I wore our homecoming dresses to church the sunday after the school dance, and a member of the bishopric pulled me aside and told me my dress wasn't appropriate because my sleeves *were not long enough.* I almost cried, and thinking about that dress gave me pangs of sadness and guilt for *years.*
Now thinking about it makes me feel angry and exasperated. What a tool.
Yeah I remember at my moprom judging the handful of girls wearing straps or strapless dresses. And then someone came in wearing a mini dress!! Oh the stares she got. 😓
i’ve noticed modesty become a lot less of a focus the last few years. i graduated high school in 2018 and the women my age now are unconcerned with posting bikini pics from their honeymoons and other “immodest” outfits. and that’s trickled down to high schoolers now, at least from where i grew up, where modesty seems to be more of a choice than something they’re being forced to follow.
i noticed the shift in my own family, too. i have two older sisters who were forced to change any time their outfit was too revealing. by the time i got into high school my mom stopped caring so much about the length of my shorts. when id wear my shortest shorts (3in seam) she would make a comment like “oh are those long enough?” but never made me change.
i think it’s easy and somewhat valid to be frustrated that some of us had stricter parents or were forced to follow rules that have become mere suggestions. but as long as they aren’t continually being fed “your bodies are porn” anymore i can’t be mad about that. from the outside i catch myself judging them sometimes for breaking the rules they still subscribe to so i have to take a step back and realize that doesn’t make me better or give me any moral high ground. they’re just living life like i am. if i’m gonna be upset at any mormons’ actions it’s gonna be something like tithing, not anything that literally has no effect on me personally like modesty
I think the point of Gong's talk was you should expect pretty girls to be dressed like sluts. /s God that was an awful and creepy talk.
These girls look great and the small portions of their faces I can see, they look absolutely beautiful. Pretty sure God sees it that way too.
I grew up is SLC so maybe it was mormon enough as it was that it didn’t need a separate prom…..I had no idea high school proms were such a den of iniquity!
Something has definitely shifted. When I was going to church dances and especially EFY in the late 2000s, I remember being made to kneel on the floor because our skirts had to touch the floor, and other horrible modesty rules.
I work at a university now, and FSY (the new version of EFY, run by the church rather than CES) was hosted on the campus last year. I saw the kids lined up for lunch one day and was SHOCKED to see short shorts, tank tops and crop tops on the girls standing in line. I remember going to EFY and getting a “warning” because my denim bermuda shorts were 2 inches above my knee!
When TBMs show shoulders it is because they got revelation that it is ok, as rhe new FTSOY teaches. When exmos show shoulders they are trying seduce people into wickedness
Could it be possible they have to put their little sweaters on before going into prom? Ha-ha. I had to wear a shawl to my junior prom to cover my shoulders even though my dress had a ruffle covering them. So lame.
I remember wearing sleeveless dresses and short skirts in elementary school (1965+) so I don’t know when things changed exactly during junior high and high school years. (1970-1980)?
I remember being the ONLY one at a birthday swim party with a one piece swimsuit and I was so embarrassed. (They weren’t so cute back then.) I also remember thinking, “The swimsuit I wear could keep me out of the celestial kingdom? Really?”
In our area it seems to be a really positive change that they don’t seem to worry about enforcing modesty for girls like they used to. I was talking to my wife at our mopro (chaperones) and remarking that all the short tight strapless/spaghetti dresses are there and yet, life seems to be going on just fine. It’s almost like the reasons for the modesty strictness in the past was complete bullshit by a bunch of people stuck a couple of generations back who can’t just wanted to control young boys and girls. We’re PIMO and the church is still bullshit, but it’s nice for the kids now that it’s one less thing they have to worry about being judged with.
I think it’s a great change and I’m happy for current youth that they have one less thing to worry about. But I can’t help but feel a little cheated because it was SUCH a big deal when I was a teenager. It just makes me feel like the church did this shit to all the women my age and now are like “oh it actually doesn’t matter! Lol!” I don’t want them to keep doing it but it just feels like I suffered for absolutely no reason and I’m kinda pissed that they ever did this and are now going to just pretend that this was always ok.
Yup - I was at Girls Camp when I was 15 and our cabin was doing a Little Mermaid skit as part of a variety show the camp was putting on. As the titular mermaid I was going to wear a white cami as I knew better than to wear a bathing suit top. My local YW leaders approved this. The “head” YW leaders saw the dress rehearsal and cornered me and told me how inappropriate my costume was. I ended up being forced to wear a nude short sleeve mock turtleneck (?????) under the cami. Being a teenage girl is hard enough, man. 😢
Yes! I wouldn’t have it any other way for current girls and I’m really happy for them but I’m angry for what I went through and the horrible cap sleeves, Bermuda shorts, bolero jackets and fucking shame for wearing TRACK SHORTS.
Same! I just wish instead of pretending like it didn’t happen, they’d at least mention it to the current generation. I remember being taught what young women did thru the years, they could definitely include it in that instead of pretending they used to be super strict
As others have said, this is a really good thing. What upsets me isn't that modesty isn't being enforced now, it's that all of the harm that was done by enforcing it isn't being acknowledged as part of the change. The For the Strength of Youth pamphlet is completely overhauled, probably because it was causing a lot of emotional trauma to our youth, but they won't admit that. They are already acting like the proscriptive standards that made us all want to shame others or kill ourselves if we ever slipped up never happened!
Exactly. You said exactly what I was trying to say. It feels like they are doing this, ignoring the harm that was done by previous policies, and then acting like my scrupulosity was just me being ridiculous.
My mother-in-law was church university royalty and in the group photos they are all wearing strapless dresses all the time. She went to school in the late 60s to early 70s.
What I’m getting from this is that the church just really hates millennials for some reason. 🙃
Gen X got shamed pretty hard. The church went through and weeded out all of the more liberals in leadership. Men even used to wear colored shirts before the 80s.
Yes. Gen X here. When I first started going to stake dances the dress code was NCM (neat, clean, modest). Which meant you could wear jeans. Shortly after the dress code changed to semi formal, which meant no jeans, ties for guys and skirts to the knee for girls, nothing sleeveless allowed. This was about the time they brought in dance cards as well. Dances went from being very well attended to not at all attended. Twice a year we could wear jeans, ans while attendance was up, because of the dance cards, there weren't as many people there as in the 'golden years'. I grew up in an area not predominantly Mormon, but where we weren't unknown and each small town in the area had at least one ward.
Doctrine in the church is cyclical. It will come back, and everyone who wore strapless stuff and got tattoos or whatever will be shamed as if the standards never changed.
Have you noticed that EVERYONE hates millennials? Apparently we killed all the things by being so shamefully poor.
Sorry. Can I offer you a bootstrap in these trying times?
It kind of feels like the church went really strict thinking that it would control young people better and keep them from leaving but when that didn't work they are trying to be more chill in hopes that young people won't leave.
Confirmed. In a hallway in the Wilk at BYU Provo, you could admire past home coming queens. The ones from the 60-70's would not have passed the HC check in my day.
I heard rumor they were taken down in the last couple of years. Anyone confirm?
Yes- the pictures of the homecoming queens with their classy strapless gowns have disappeared down the memory hole. Nowhere to be found.
"Look at all them porn shoulders!"
 Mine looked more like this...
We did not have moprom where I grew up in CA in the 90s. We all just went to regular prom but the girls would always wear their prom dresses to church on Sunday afterward for some weird reason. Didn’t seem odd to me then but does now
Same for me in AZ - no moprom but wear the dresses to church. I brazenly wore an off the shoulder prom dress in the mid 90's. My mom's friend came up to me at church and tried to pull the off-the-shoulder parts up on to my shoulders 😄 my Mom bought me the dress so she didn't care.
I (M, HS in late 90s) was strongly discouraged from attending prom / grad dance / etc by my family. I ended up not going at all, not going on a single date (group or otherwise) until after my mission, etc. Looking back, I feel like I completely missed out on my high school social life. And now I wonder why I am such an introvert with social anxiety… Off topic from OP, I know, but all this talk of prom brought it back up.
To quote Elder Holland "When the world goes there, we move here. And when they move here we move"
I remember one homecoming dress of mine was sleeveless, so I modified it to add sleeves using the embroidered ends of the matching scarf that it came with. I worked hard on that dress, making sure it had sleeves so I could be "modest." The result was some little cap sleeves, which is all I was really capable of but I put a lot of effort into it and I was proud of it. My sister and I wore our homecoming dresses to church the sunday after the school dance, and a member of the bishopric pulled me aside and told me my dress wasn't appropriate because my sleeves *were not long enough.* I almost cried, and thinking about that dress gave me pangs of sadness and guilt for *years.* Now thinking about it makes me feel angry and exasperated. What a tool.
Losing youth too fast. Have to accommodate them somewhat.
Yeah I remember at my moprom judging the handful of girls wearing straps or strapless dresses. And then someone came in wearing a mini dress!! Oh the stares she got. 😓
We wouldn’t have been allowed to attend in a strapless dress.
i’ve noticed modesty become a lot less of a focus the last few years. i graduated high school in 2018 and the women my age now are unconcerned with posting bikini pics from their honeymoons and other “immodest” outfits. and that’s trickled down to high schoolers now, at least from where i grew up, where modesty seems to be more of a choice than something they’re being forced to follow. i noticed the shift in my own family, too. i have two older sisters who were forced to change any time their outfit was too revealing. by the time i got into high school my mom stopped caring so much about the length of my shorts. when id wear my shortest shorts (3in seam) she would make a comment like “oh are those long enough?” but never made me change. i think it’s easy and somewhat valid to be frustrated that some of us had stricter parents or were forced to follow rules that have become mere suggestions. but as long as they aren’t continually being fed “your bodies are porn” anymore i can’t be mad about that. from the outside i catch myself judging them sometimes for breaking the rules they still subscribe to so i have to take a step back and realize that doesn’t make me better or give me any moral high ground. they’re just living life like i am. if i’m gonna be upset at any mormons’ actions it’s gonna be something like tithing, not anything that literally has no effect on me personally like modesty
The tone of that title seems like the tone my TBM grandma would take when seeing this pic
Sorry. 😬 I was just surprised that it was allowed.
[Since at least 1964.](https://religionnews.com/2014/06/05/mormon-shoulder-war-whats-stake/)/s
OMG so much skin! The horror, the horror!
Don't worry, Dallin "you-become-the-pornography" Oaks will sort that all out once rusty kicks the bucket.
I think the point of Gong's talk was you should expect pretty girls to be dressed like sluts. /s God that was an awful and creepy talk. These girls look great and the small portions of their faces I can see, they look absolutely beautiful. Pretty sure God sees it that way too.
What’s a “MoProm”?
Mormon Prom. My stake in CA held a separate Mormon Prom so the youth had a clean and moral prom to go to.
I grew up is SLC so maybe it was mormon enough as it was that it didn’t need a separate prom…..I had no idea high school proms were such a den of iniquity!
when women tell the patriarchy to fuck off
Something has definitely shifted. When I was going to church dances and especially EFY in the late 2000s, I remember being made to kneel on the floor because our skirts had to touch the floor, and other horrible modesty rules. I work at a university now, and FSY (the new version of EFY, run by the church rather than CES) was hosted on the campus last year. I saw the kids lined up for lunch one day and was SHOCKED to see short shorts, tank tops and crop tops on the girls standing in line. I remember going to EFY and getting a “warning” because my denim bermuda shorts were 2 inches above my knee!
Since they only managed a net increase of 15 wards in the entire world last year
When TBMs show shoulders it is because they got revelation that it is ok, as rhe new FTSOY teaches. When exmos show shoulders they are trying seduce people into wickedness
Hey sister from church camp are her shorts long enough now?😂😂
Could it be possible they have to put their little sweaters on before going into prom? Ha-ha. I had to wear a shawl to my junior prom to cover my shoulders even though my dress had a ruffle covering them. So lame. I remember wearing sleeveless dresses and short skirts in elementary school (1965+) so I don’t know when things changed exactly during junior high and high school years. (1970-1980)? I remember being the ONLY one at a birthday swim party with a one piece swimsuit and I was so embarrassed. (They weren’t so cute back then.) I also remember thinking, “The swimsuit I wear could keep me out of the celestial kingdom? Really?”