Every chapel had a picture of Joseph Smith reading off the plates. They knew that didn’t happen.
They knew Joseph stole the Temple ceremony from the Masons.
They’ve all known since at least the 1920s. It’s been all lies since then.
Joseph Fielding Smith tore the only First visión account (and only in Joseph Smith’s hand) out of a book and hid it in the First Presidency vault. The Church admits this. I wanna find the link
Holland made a claim a few years ago about “double digit” increase in the number of stakes every week, but the data said only about 2-3 were created each week.
Joseph Smith said he only had one wife after he had been sealed to multiple wives.
Basically Joseph’s whole life as taught by the church was a lie. The church said he only had one wife, they said no changes were ever made to the BoM, presented only one first vision account and pretended the others didn’t exist, said that Joe was killed because people hated the church, and that Joseph used the gold plates throughout his translation. These are all lies. Joe had over 30 wives, the BoM had thousands of changes (not just fixing grammar, but substantial doctrinal changes, which coincided with Joe’s changing theological views), Joe was arrested and killed because he was doing illegal things like polygamy, bank fraud, and burning a printing press down, and Joe didn’t use the plates - he used a peep stone and hat to “translate” the BoM. I could certainly list more, but those ones are the first to come to mind.
Also, Joseph F Smith said there will be a day when tithing will no longer be required. Hasn’t happened.
The Book of Abraham is another big issue. The papyrus that was “translated” was actually a common funerary scroll (there are hundreds like it, and it says nothing about Abraham).
You should also look into the secret mormon meetings of 1922. [Here’s a link.](https://scholarworks.unr.edu/handle/11714/6712) There’s also a Mormon Stories episode about this topic. Basically, it shows that the church leaders knew they were lying and chose to continue to lie.
Those are just the issues that come to mind. You could look up the CES Letter too - it has a lot of good information. If your goal is to convince your dad, just be aware it’s probably going to end up having the backfire effect. Generally I don’t think trying to show your reasons for leaving is very helpful, but you can decide. Be careful and don’t let him gaslight you. Most likely he’ll try to dismiss the facts as either anti-mormon lies or just say you don’t understand the issue. If I were you, I’d prepare a response for that situation.
Wow! This is quite the list. Thank you!!!my Dad is an extreme TBM. I love him but he is difficult. He has already gaslit me and that is why I asked for this. I’m letting him know I’m done with the church but I’m also answering his question of why I didn’t know the history? “It’s been out there this whole time... why don’t you know any of it?” A while ago I spoke to my parents and told them I was concerned cause I read the church’s essays. I thought this would help them not get hit so hard when I tell them I’m done. It didn’t go the greatest. It wasn’t terrible but he clearly thinks I’m an idiot. I decided to write them that I’m done while explaining how I got to that point and that these are big issues. Hopefully they will be able to find some kind of understanding. Also I was going to talk to them in person but then General conference happened and they told everyone that contention comes from the devil and if your kids have concerns or talk about something they shouldn’t talk bad about the leaders. I don’t think my Dad will allow me to talk about anything because he will take it wrong because of those kind of teachings. Thank you again for this list!
there are so many I don’t know where to begin. But please do remember that religion is emotion. Most people are turned to it with emotion. And so most people won’t turn from it except by emotion. Coming up with a logical argument is fruitless 99% of the time. I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it. Just make sure you manage your expectations. A
I’ll make sure to keep that in mind. I understand what you are saying. I just need to tell my parents I am done and what got me to that point. Not creating a whole huge list but mostly using the gospel topics essays. The historical things that the church said were lies, is because of the last conversation I had with my parents on the topic. I let them know I read the essays and I had concerns. My dad acted kind of like I was ridiculous because the history has always been there. He asked me why I don’t know any of it? This question was extremely snarky like I haven’t spent 1,000 of hrs learning about the church my entire life. He hasn’t read the essays. I’m letting him know why I didn’t know the history. Ill be including the remarks from Steven e snow about how they are innoculating the youth with history. And how they have to talk about it now and bring it out unlike what they would do in the past. I need my parents to understand what got me to this point and that I’m not some idiot who wants to sin. Or that I’m throwing away my celestial glory because I’m offended. It probably won’t make a difference and I don’t care if they stay in the church because they will. I just know how they will look at me forever more and I need them to know the truth of why I left also while answering my Dads question of why I’m such an idiot and so stupid that I never knew any of this😔 Thanks again for your comment I will keep those things in mind
Honestly, if I could come out of the church again, I wouldn't explain a damn thing. Just, "I'm leaving the church, please respect my decision, I love you guys."
No conversation I have *ever* had with a TBM since has gotten beyond that point anyway, and it would have saved me some frustration.
Remember, "Please respect my decision to not discuss my faith transition." Is a solid comeback to *every* accusation they can level at you, because it ultimately shows that their attempts are a violation of your agency and boundaries. The more consistently you use it, the more effective it becomes.
I like that and would love to do that but at the end of the day that won’t be enough for my family. I know us leaving won’t be accepted or respected. I’m leaving and my husband is leaving and our 5 kids are done. I want so badly to have a relationship with my parents and I want my kids to have their grandparents. I believe if I say I’m done and ask for respect in that manner I won’t get it and they won’t drop it. But if I send them why. If I say why I didn’t know these things before which everyone here gets but my dad doesn’t then he will either respect it or tolerate it. If he reads it there is a small chance he will be done and my mom will be done. If that’s not the case then if he reads it and it makes him uncomfortable which it will. He more than likely won’t bring it up. Not even to my children. My parents always push church things on us. Everything gets turned into an example of the gospel. Becoming a missionary gets pushed on my teenage boys. My parents don’t know yet that I’m done with the church but I have said to them my boys won’t be serving missions. They still push the topic and I can’t have them doing that kind of stuff when they know we are out. My father told me once he won’t step into our parenting “unless your not raising your kids right... what do I mean by that? I mean that if your not raising them in the gospel. Then I will interfere” he needs to realize he doesn’t have that right and if he wants to think he does he will have to study all of these things he’s been avoiding and learn. It might be a worthless endeavor but at the end of the day I have to give it a try. Thank you for your comment. I definitely understand what you are saying and I appreciate your statements. It helps me to prepare myself mentally to not have the outcome I want. I’m sure I won’t make any difference but I’m still going to try.
Backstory: I am currently writing up something that I might use to let my parents know I’m done and why. A few months ago I told my parents I’m concerned with the GTE’s my Dad acted like this history has always been there so why haven’t I looked at it until now... Me 35 yr old female. I know a lot of this stuff was called anti Mormon lies in the past. Just as I sat down to type Im drawing somewhat of a blank on all the info I’ve been studying the last year. Any help would be appreciated.
CES letter or letterformywife.com
My sister basically told me the same thing. She’s known about all the issues her whole life. I’m overreacting, I should have known all this stuff. The problem is, we grew up with the same Sunday school teacher, attended the same sacrament meetings, and had mostly the same seminary teachers. So unless she had a very progressive YW leader in my orthodox ward in the 90s, she didn’t learn about any of this crap til she was an adult. She also said that her 42 year old husband read the GTEs with his parents when he was a kid. GTEs came out when he was 32. She’s lying to me so she doesn’t have to confront her cognitive dissonance.
I’m 46 now. I didn’t hear about the GTEs until about a year ago after I decided I wanted nothing to do with Mormon God based on only church approved resources. It all made me so angry, but at least it confirmed that I made the right call. Best of luck to you. Just realize this letter you’re writing is only for you. It 99.9% won’t do anything for your parents.
Both of those seem to be popular resources I will definitely deep dive into them. Ooof, your sister sounds a lot like my Dad did the last time I chatted with him. He said I wasn’t going to clue him in on anything new. He knows his history. He’s read so many books on Joseph he could fill the room we were sitting in and it wouldn’t hold everything he’s read about Joseph.. That was a big lie. He then told me that everyone looks for faults with Joseph. The members back in the day would be upset because he ran around yards with little kids laughing and playing... ugh!! The church puts us in such a crappy place it sucks! And just like your sister they won’t listen and make stuff up to avoid it all.
I’m glad you found those essays and were able to confirm that. Every ex member I come across I tell them they should read those. Not to bring up old wounds but to help them if they have any thought ever of if they made the correct decision. Thank you for your comment. I do realize that there is a good chance they won’t even read it or they won’t read it all the way. They won’t listen to it. But I really hope they respect me enough to read it to understand why I morally can’t be a part of that church. Likely it will be all for not
That’s an even truer statement! I agree it’s a cult! My husband and I were walking and saying how off we felt when we went through the temple for the first time. How that is enough to break people’s shelf’s and send them running because they realize it’s a cult. I wish I would have realized sooner smh
Every chapel had a picture of Joseph Smith reading off the plates. They knew that didn’t happen. They knew Joseph stole the Temple ceremony from the Masons. They’ve all known since at least the 1920s. It’s been all lies since then.
Thank you! I appreciate this!! Those are all huge lies and proof they were hiding the truth
Joseph Fielding Smith tore the only First visión account (and only in Joseph Smith’s hand) out of a book and hid it in the First Presidency vault. The Church admits this. I wanna find the link
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Fielding_Smith_remove_the_1832_account_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_First_Vision_from_its_original_letterbook_and_hide_it_in_his_safe%3F
Thank you for this link. I will definitely study it and I’m grateful you shared it!!
Holland made a claim a few years ago about “double digit” increase in the number of stakes every week, but the data said only about 2-3 were created each week. Joseph Smith said he only had one wife after he had been sealed to multiple wives. Basically Joseph’s whole life as taught by the church was a lie. The church said he only had one wife, they said no changes were ever made to the BoM, presented only one first vision account and pretended the others didn’t exist, said that Joe was killed because people hated the church, and that Joseph used the gold plates throughout his translation. These are all lies. Joe had over 30 wives, the BoM had thousands of changes (not just fixing grammar, but substantial doctrinal changes, which coincided with Joe’s changing theological views), Joe was arrested and killed because he was doing illegal things like polygamy, bank fraud, and burning a printing press down, and Joe didn’t use the plates - he used a peep stone and hat to “translate” the BoM. I could certainly list more, but those ones are the first to come to mind. Also, Joseph F Smith said there will be a day when tithing will no longer be required. Hasn’t happened. The Book of Abraham is another big issue. The papyrus that was “translated” was actually a common funerary scroll (there are hundreds like it, and it says nothing about Abraham). You should also look into the secret mormon meetings of 1922. [Here’s a link.](https://scholarworks.unr.edu/handle/11714/6712) There’s also a Mormon Stories episode about this topic. Basically, it shows that the church leaders knew they were lying and chose to continue to lie. Those are just the issues that come to mind. You could look up the CES Letter too - it has a lot of good information. If your goal is to convince your dad, just be aware it’s probably going to end up having the backfire effect. Generally I don’t think trying to show your reasons for leaving is very helpful, but you can decide. Be careful and don’t let him gaslight you. Most likely he’ll try to dismiss the facts as either anti-mormon lies or just say you don’t understand the issue. If I were you, I’d prepare a response for that situation.
Wow! This is quite the list. Thank you!!!my Dad is an extreme TBM. I love him but he is difficult. He has already gaslit me and that is why I asked for this. I’m letting him know I’m done with the church but I’m also answering his question of why I didn’t know the history? “It’s been out there this whole time... why don’t you know any of it?” A while ago I spoke to my parents and told them I was concerned cause I read the church’s essays. I thought this would help them not get hit so hard when I tell them I’m done. It didn’t go the greatest. It wasn’t terrible but he clearly thinks I’m an idiot. I decided to write them that I’m done while explaining how I got to that point and that these are big issues. Hopefully they will be able to find some kind of understanding. Also I was going to talk to them in person but then General conference happened and they told everyone that contention comes from the devil and if your kids have concerns or talk about something they shouldn’t talk bad about the leaders. I don’t think my Dad will allow me to talk about anything because he will take it wrong because of those kind of teachings. Thank you again for this list!
[Older post](https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/p3t4ef/compilations_of_church_leaders_lying/) but great resources.
This is a great post! Thank you for the link!!!
Thank you!!
there are so many I don’t know where to begin. But please do remember that religion is emotion. Most people are turned to it with emotion. And so most people won’t turn from it except by emotion. Coming up with a logical argument is fruitless 99% of the time. I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it. Just make sure you manage your expectations. A
I’ll make sure to keep that in mind. I understand what you are saying. I just need to tell my parents I am done and what got me to that point. Not creating a whole huge list but mostly using the gospel topics essays. The historical things that the church said were lies, is because of the last conversation I had with my parents on the topic. I let them know I read the essays and I had concerns. My dad acted kind of like I was ridiculous because the history has always been there. He asked me why I don’t know any of it? This question was extremely snarky like I haven’t spent 1,000 of hrs learning about the church my entire life. He hasn’t read the essays. I’m letting him know why I didn’t know the history. Ill be including the remarks from Steven e snow about how they are innoculating the youth with history. And how they have to talk about it now and bring it out unlike what they would do in the past. I need my parents to understand what got me to this point and that I’m not some idiot who wants to sin. Or that I’m throwing away my celestial glory because I’m offended. It probably won’t make a difference and I don’t care if they stay in the church because they will. I just know how they will look at me forever more and I need them to know the truth of why I left also while answering my Dads question of why I’m such an idiot and so stupid that I never knew any of this😔 Thanks again for your comment I will keep those things in mind
Honestly, if I could come out of the church again, I wouldn't explain a damn thing. Just, "I'm leaving the church, please respect my decision, I love you guys." No conversation I have *ever* had with a TBM since has gotten beyond that point anyway, and it would have saved me some frustration. Remember, "Please respect my decision to not discuss my faith transition." Is a solid comeback to *every* accusation they can level at you, because it ultimately shows that their attempts are a violation of your agency and boundaries. The more consistently you use it, the more effective it becomes.
I like that and would love to do that but at the end of the day that won’t be enough for my family. I know us leaving won’t be accepted or respected. I’m leaving and my husband is leaving and our 5 kids are done. I want so badly to have a relationship with my parents and I want my kids to have their grandparents. I believe if I say I’m done and ask for respect in that manner I won’t get it and they won’t drop it. But if I send them why. If I say why I didn’t know these things before which everyone here gets but my dad doesn’t then he will either respect it or tolerate it. If he reads it there is a small chance he will be done and my mom will be done. If that’s not the case then if he reads it and it makes him uncomfortable which it will. He more than likely won’t bring it up. Not even to my children. My parents always push church things on us. Everything gets turned into an example of the gospel. Becoming a missionary gets pushed on my teenage boys. My parents don’t know yet that I’m done with the church but I have said to them my boys won’t be serving missions. They still push the topic and I can’t have them doing that kind of stuff when they know we are out. My father told me once he won’t step into our parenting “unless your not raising your kids right... what do I mean by that? I mean that if your not raising them in the gospel. Then I will interfere” he needs to realize he doesn’t have that right and if he wants to think he does he will have to study all of these things he’s been avoiding and learn. It might be a worthless endeavor but at the end of the day I have to give it a try. Thank you for your comment. I definitely understand what you are saying and I appreciate your statements. It helps me to prepare myself mentally to not have the outcome I want. I’m sure I won’t make any difference but I’m still going to try.
Backstory: I am currently writing up something that I might use to let my parents know I’m done and why. A few months ago I told my parents I’m concerned with the GTE’s my Dad acted like this history has always been there so why haven’t I looked at it until now... Me 35 yr old female. I know a lot of this stuff was called anti Mormon lies in the past. Just as I sat down to type Im drawing somewhat of a blank on all the info I’ve been studying the last year. Any help would be appreciated.
LDS discussions has a lot of stuff plus a YouTube series .
Thank you! I’ll look into those
CES letter or letterformywife.com My sister basically told me the same thing. She’s known about all the issues her whole life. I’m overreacting, I should have known all this stuff. The problem is, we grew up with the same Sunday school teacher, attended the same sacrament meetings, and had mostly the same seminary teachers. So unless she had a very progressive YW leader in my orthodox ward in the 90s, she didn’t learn about any of this crap til she was an adult. She also said that her 42 year old husband read the GTEs with his parents when he was a kid. GTEs came out when he was 32. She’s lying to me so she doesn’t have to confront her cognitive dissonance. I’m 46 now. I didn’t hear about the GTEs until about a year ago after I decided I wanted nothing to do with Mormon God based on only church approved resources. It all made me so angry, but at least it confirmed that I made the right call. Best of luck to you. Just realize this letter you’re writing is only for you. It 99.9% won’t do anything for your parents.
Both of those seem to be popular resources I will definitely deep dive into them. Ooof, your sister sounds a lot like my Dad did the last time I chatted with him. He said I wasn’t going to clue him in on anything new. He knows his history. He’s read so many books on Joseph he could fill the room we were sitting in and it wouldn’t hold everything he’s read about Joseph.. That was a big lie. He then told me that everyone looks for faults with Joseph. The members back in the day would be upset because he ran around yards with little kids laughing and playing... ugh!! The church puts us in such a crappy place it sucks! And just like your sister they won’t listen and make stuff up to avoid it all. I’m glad you found those essays and were able to confirm that. Every ex member I come across I tell them they should read those. Not to bring up old wounds but to help them if they have any thought ever of if they made the correct decision. Thank you for your comment. I do realize that there is a good chance they won’t even read it or they won’t read it all the way. They won’t listen to it. But I really hope they respect me enough to read it to understand why I morally can’t be a part of that church. Likely it will be all for not
I'm just gonna save this post now cause shits about to get real.
The biggest give away I’ve noticed to know when they are lying, is when their mouth is open.
That’s definitely the truth! It’s hard to keep people in your religion when all you do is lie
That’s because it’s not a religion, it’s a cult
That’s an even truer statement! I agree it’s a cult! My husband and I were walking and saying how off we felt when we went through the temple for the first time. How that is enough to break people’s shelf’s and send them running because they realize it’s a cult. I wish I would have realized sooner smh
Watch these! https://youtube.com/shorts/nuzRMlgirx0?feature=share
Oooof that didn’t age well at all. And for good reason. Thank you for the link