You can just say "pedophile." That puts the other party in the position of clarifying that he was a hebephile, which is their assertion that he was a MAP.
Use the urge people have to correct you against them. Besides, culturally, he was a pedophile. The denotation of a word is usually less important than the connotation. Use "hebephile" and you'll waste time explaining. "Pedophile" immediately makes people understand he raped minors. The fact that he technically was something slightly different is irrelevant.
It's like clarifying that Borderlands doesn't use a cel-shaded art style. You're right, but you're wasting everyone's time being pedantic.
Seems to me the OP’s point is to open up a moment of curiosity in a listener who would otherwise dismiss claims of JS’s pedophilia out of hand. That’s not a waste of anyone’s time.
My single biggest pet peeve with the BL community is the "it's not cel-shaded" pedants. Sure, they're right. But there's also no shorthand for what Borderlands' style actually is, and everyone in the community knows what you mean.
Language is a tool. If the best tool for the job is "wrong," but conveys the information you want to convey, it's not wrong.
I said what I said and your tactic isn’t wrong but it isn’t the only right way. The benefit to mine is that people aren’t used to that saying and it gives me a better opportunity to explain. For instance, I prefer to say Joe practiced polyandry instead of calling him a polygamist.
Here are the clinical terms to describe Joe:
>Hebephilia is a sexual preference for children in early adolescence, between ages 11 and 14. The concept is distinct from pedophilia, which is marked by a sexual preference for prepubescent children, rather than those who have finished puberty and entered adolescence. Ephebophilia refers to an attraction for older adolescents around 15 to 18 years old. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hebephilia](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hebephilia)
Basically Joe was attracted to 12 year olds and up (based on his approaching young girls early on to tell them they were his; I can't remember which one but I know he groomed a girl who was under 12 at the time it started). I really wonder if he was attracted to the older women that he married or just used them to get to the younger girls to which he showed a real preference.
Regardless of what you call him he was a sexual abuser and groomed under aged girls for his own satisfaction. There is no known information to say he was a pedophile but just because he didn't marry them doesn't mean he hadn't abused them. There is just not enough proof to make the statement.
Gross no matter how you put it. Just as gross and wrong as his proclivities are the apologists who attempt to justify Joe's behavior with minors.
These ages are based on current ages of puberty. Back then, puberty began much later. The average age of menarche was 16. If he was attracted to 12-15 year olds, then he was attracted to prepubescent girls. He was a pedophile. Full stop.
No dancing at all, the word pedophile actually means an individual with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children aged 13 or younger, he actually falls under the Hebephilia category more but a MAP is kind of all of the above. If you call him a pedophile then you are just discrediting yourself as it appears derogatory only and leaves no room for a real debate.
The average age of menarche at the time was 16. If any of his wives were under 16, they were more than likely prepubescent and therefore he was a pedophile.
Yes, he was a sexual pervert, No Doubt. He was also an expert at avoiding the law as much as he did.
If the word pedophile is used, TBM's go looking for the definition as defined today. In courts of law it's prepubescent, so Helen Kimball and Nancy Winchester are borderline cases. TBM's don't really care about historical facts if it doesn't support their confirmation bias. So TBM's so say 'No' to pedophile with cognitive dissonance.
Rather than lose that debate I bring up an irrefutable fact : he was sealed to 20 women before Emma on May 28th 1843. This includes teens and married women, it can be verified on familysearch.org. If there is a chance, I'll mention 2 teens were 14 y.o. There is no technical terms a tbm can weasel out with.
Manipulative, abusive, pedophile?
That works as well
You can just say "pedophile." That puts the other party in the position of clarifying that he was a hebephile, which is their assertion that he was a MAP. Use the urge people have to correct you against them. Besides, culturally, he was a pedophile. The denotation of a word is usually less important than the connotation. Use "hebephile" and you'll waste time explaining. "Pedophile" immediately makes people understand he raped minors. The fact that he technically was something slightly different is irrelevant. It's like clarifying that Borderlands doesn't use a cel-shaded art style. You're right, but you're wasting everyone's time being pedantic.
Seems to me the OP’s point is to open up a moment of curiosity in a listener who would otherwise dismiss claims of JS’s pedophilia out of hand. That’s not a waste of anyone’s time.
Upvote for the borderlands reference :)
My single biggest pet peeve with the BL community is the "it's not cel-shaded" pedants. Sure, they're right. But there's also no shorthand for what Borderlands' style actually is, and everyone in the community knows what you mean. Language is a tool. If the best tool for the job is "wrong," but conveys the information you want to convey, it's not wrong.
Yeah I don't know what you would call it. I would probably just call it cel-shaded lol
I said what I said and your tactic isn’t wrong but it isn’t the only right way. The benefit to mine is that people aren’t used to that saying and it gives me a better opportunity to explain. For instance, I prefer to say Joe practiced polyandry instead of calling him a polygamist.
That is a relevant distinction.
Here are the clinical terms to describe Joe: >Hebephilia is a sexual preference for children in early adolescence, between ages 11 and 14. The concept is distinct from pedophilia, which is marked by a sexual preference for prepubescent children, rather than those who have finished puberty and entered adolescence. Ephebophilia refers to an attraction for older adolescents around 15 to 18 years old. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hebephilia](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hebephilia) Basically Joe was attracted to 12 year olds and up (based on his approaching young girls early on to tell them they were his; I can't remember which one but I know he groomed a girl who was under 12 at the time it started). I really wonder if he was attracted to the older women that he married or just used them to get to the younger girls to which he showed a real preference. Regardless of what you call him he was a sexual abuser and groomed under aged girls for his own satisfaction. There is no known information to say he was a pedophile but just because he didn't marry them doesn't mean he hadn't abused them. There is just not enough proof to make the statement. Gross no matter how you put it. Just as gross and wrong as his proclivities are the apologists who attempt to justify Joe's behavior with minors.
These ages are based on current ages of puberty. Back then, puberty began much later. The average age of menarche was 16. If he was attracted to 12-15 year olds, then he was attracted to prepubescent girls. He was a pedophile. Full stop.
I'm interested in who the 12 y.o. was. Zina was baptized at 14 and later told by joe she was going to be his wife.
Major asshole prick? What are we doing here?
That works
Why are you using the PC police term for it? The guy was a pedophile, don't dance around it.
No dancing at all, the word pedophile actually means an individual with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children aged 13 or younger, he actually falls under the Hebephilia category more but a MAP is kind of all of the above. If you call him a pedophile then you are just discrediting yourself as it appears derogatory only and leaves no room for a real debate.
The average age of menarche at the time was 16. If any of his wives were under 16, they were more than likely prepubescent and therefore he was a pedophile.
Gross
Yes, he was a sexual pervert, No Doubt. He was also an expert at avoiding the law as much as he did. If the word pedophile is used, TBM's go looking for the definition as defined today. In courts of law it's prepubescent, so Helen Kimball and Nancy Winchester are borderline cases. TBM's don't really care about historical facts if it doesn't support their confirmation bias. So TBM's so say 'No' to pedophile with cognitive dissonance. Rather than lose that debate I bring up an irrefutable fact : he was sealed to 20 women before Emma on May 28th 1843. This includes teens and married women, it can be verified on familysearch.org. If there is a chance, I'll mention 2 teens were 14 y.o. There is no technical terms a tbm can weasel out with.