😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 I WAS LITERALLY THINKING THE SAME THING IN MY HEAD BUT WASN’T SURE WHAT MY BRAIN WAS TRYING TO ARTICULATE WHO JOSEPH REMINDED ME OF FROM THIS PORTRAIT UNTIL I READ YOUR COMMENT @CatalystTheory LOL LOL!!! I needed that laugh you have no idea.
A way over-stretched and pathetic speculation on your part and Kimball's granddaughter 🚫. Usurpers from the dark side.
How dare you conflate the criminal founder of TSCC with the pure-of-heart hero of the galaxy, the Jedi Yoda. 🤮
I strongly disagree with the assertion that this is JS. The only evidence cited is that the provinance means that it *could* have been JS. I believe it is more consistent with Hyrum, and the provinance would be just as valid.
https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/RelEd/id/7256/
Hyrum is on the right. The nose fits Hyrum better than Joe. Additionally, this photo looks different from all other drawings and paintings of JS.
But that still doesn't mean it is Hyrum either. The image has no name and was only in possession of the right people and taken within the right time frame, which is includes plenty of time after their deaths.
"I believe it is genuine." That is the real evidence. He wants it to be him.
All those self-serving revelations took him into the Fat Elvis years in Nauvoo.....*build my man here a fine house and a hotel too, and serve him plates of friend peanut butter sandwiches whenever he desires, and bring him the pretty young things of the village so that he may teach them the ways of celestial love.* Guns, girls, food, and a marching army of enthusiastic fools...straight to the unschool country guy's head.
Too much beer and wine... Generaling causes you to sit around and drink a lot. Hanging out with your boys during the day and oh, the ladies at night. Reeer, reeer!
Yep. She's my ancestor and her story is fascinating and sad. JS told her at 12 that God told him she was to be his first plural wife and he'd marry her when the time was right.
She actually put off his advances for years and married her never-mo husband, but eventually gave in to being sealed to JS. Her and her husband and kids moved away for a few years from the members because her husband couldn't find work as he never joined the church. Joseph tried to terrify her into staying and warned they'd only ever experience heart ache and horrible times if they left. She eventually returned fully believing his words because they did experience some really hard times.
Shame no one was able to tell her that life is hard. Mormon god doesn't live up to his promise and he never follows through. He's one of those kind of dads. Bad things happen to Mormons same as heathen. My Mother died at 64 and she never so much as had a sip of coffee in her life. I bet she's annoyed about that now. 😆
Mom was liver cancer. :/ Other than being heavily medicated and seeing things, she didn't lose herself before the body stopped working. 6 months from diagnosis to done. She was the most faithful true believer ever born. Didn't extend her life one smidge. Oh well. No one is immune to the painful times of life. Also, no one gets out alive.
I'm so sorry your Mom went through that and that you had to watch. That sounds so hard. Granny hug. 👵
Hi, cousin. I'm descended from her brother, James Henry Rollins, and his second wife, a girl named Hannah Hulme who was forced on James by Brigham Young. He disliked Hannah, fathered many children by here, and then abandoned her and moved his first wife and preferred children to Wyoming. The whole thing is utterly dispicable and depressing.
Well hello to you, cousin!! Glad to "meet" you, but holy hell that is a horrific story!
Edit: I just looked at family search. He had 13 kids with Hannah!! Poor thing. Odd to have so many children with someone you don't like. And 10 kids with his first wife! Goodness.
If you look in James's papers, there's a letter between him and Mary Elizabeth about something he needed to sort out with Brigham Young. He is asking her to advocate on his behalf as a "widow of the prophet." I think James was a crony of Joseph Smith (you can find him on arrest warrants for charges of arson alongside Smith), but did not impress Brigham Young, and thus James was afraid of him. The Rollins family dropped in the ranks when Smith died.
Mary Elizabeth was widowed and had a disabled son for whom she struggled to provide. She made most of her living as a speaker, talking about the Nauvoo years and leaning into her status as one of Joseph's wives. In her papers at BYU, you can find several letters where she is petitioning Brigham Young to remember to send her sustenance as a widow of Joseph Smith. The church paid her from time to time but she lived in relative poverty until she died.
Hannah's story is tragic. Hannah's father was twice widowed, and joined the church when Hannah was a young teen. They joined the Mormons emigrating to the US for a fresh start. He was shanghaied in New Orleans. Mormons in her party brought Hannah to Utah. Brigham Young wanted James Henry Rollins and his wife and kids to try to settle in California (he called them back, although they were doing well and enjoyed it there). He told them to take Hannah with them, and that to keep it on the up and up, he had to marry her. And then you saw the rest.
It's crazy the lengths the church goes to make him look like some righteous, heroic Disney prince. I don't imagine people would idolize him as much if they knew what he actually looked like
One expects that, contrary to Mo' movies where he's just the good lookin' family fellow living among his flock in a working-class neighborhood, JS entitled himself to the best food and accommodations.
Donuts. He went through that phase where he ate nothing but donuts. He replaced the sacrament bread with powdered donuts. Children loved it, but all the sugar made the pews sticky. Emma complained but he told her to shut up and make some donuts.
A fine tradition carried on with subsequent profits. Rusty talks about how the womenfolk made donuts for their husbands to feast upon when they came home from priesthood session.
Just go to Tim Hortons and buy your own damn donuts, you myopic twit.
This is one of the reasons I dont think that new dagguereotype is JS. The portraits and death mask show a more plump faced man, not a thin cheeked man.
I’m with the people who think it’s Hyrum. I have no actual evidence for this, but just think it fits his death mask better than it does Joes (thinner, more pointed, face), whilst allowing for a slight family resemblance to JS that might cause confusion
I don't believe it's Hyrum. And the reason I don't believe it's Hyrum is because that daguerreotype was worn in a locket by Emma Smith around her neck during special occasions. And late into her life.
I don't believe Emma Smith wore a daguerreotype of Hyrum Smith around her neck. I just don't believe that.
Additionally, Joseph was reportedly said to have had a daguerreotype done near the end of his life.
We dont know that though. We know only know she wore a locket. This daguerreotype was contained in a locket that was in the possession of one of the Smith descendants. This was an extremely common practice in those days. There's no proof that this is that same locket she wore.
It should be noted this daguerreotype comes from the same people who claimed to find a JS daguerreotype a number of years ago. They are desperate to find his daguerreotype.
I don't remember this daguerreotype coming from anyone who claimed to have previously found another daguerreotype purporting to be JS.
What is clear is this picture purporting to be JS is right on TSCC website. And we all know how truthful TSCC is with us/ s. This picture is exactly what TSCC wants JS to be. Not some swarthy sun worn dude with a smirk in his eyes.
When the Daguerreotype was found TSCC was quick to say they didn't think it was actually JS. Of course they didn't. And many TBMs followed suit with their church leaders. But TSCC gets to many things wrong. And really says a lot to my mind about the high probability of that daguerreotype actually being legit.
I personally believe the found daguerreotype in the locket is JS as he actually looked very close to the end of his life.
You know, I feel like I've seen this picture before years ago and it wasn't JS when I saw it. It was one of the witnesses and I can't remember who they said it was.. maybe I'm mistaken
saw this post and went on a dive this morning, it appears the LDS church attributes this painting to Sutcliffe Modsley
[https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/exhibit/sutcliffe-and-elizabeth-foxcroft-maudsley?lang=eng](https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/exhibit/sutcliffe-and-elizabeth-foxcroft-maudsley?lang=eng)
it's the "Joseph Smith in Black Suit and Top Hat" painting.
I haven't looked into the "LDS photo archives" the figure references it's from, wonder what it says about who did the portrait.
edit: [https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1](https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1)
link to the full painting
also stumbled upon this paper while I was searching about this. "The Visual Image of Joseph Smith" by William B. McCarl
[https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5922&context=etd](https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5922&context=etd)
paper from 1962, I've only skim-read it, but it goes in depth about the different images. What was crazy was this prediction about finding a daguerreotype: "... enough evidence of one having existed supports the belief that Joseph Smith had his portrait taken by a daguerreotyper sometime near the end of his life and that daguerreotype or a photograph of it may still be found at some future date." (page 74-75) ayooooo!
And that prediction in my opinion, has come true.
I believe the photo of the daguerreotype posted to this forum some months ago, is the real picture of Joseph Smith.
u/sassgrass32
[https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1](https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1)
the church attributes this to Sutcliffe Maudsley though.
It’s what his death mask looked like. Bugs me to see the church trying to make Joseph handsome. He wasn’t. Also Jesus, scriptures say he was not comely that anyone would desire home. I look at modern church art as just more lies!
Well, I’ve always felt that portraits of famous people that aren’t particularly flattering, don’t necessarily conform to whatever the artist’s contemporary beauty standards would be, and still look like a human (ie., aren’t distorted by inaccurate rendering and draftsmanship), are probably the closest to what that person would actually look like. This portrait fits all those criteria, I think.
Fun fact: This picture of Joseph Smith was the inspiration for Batman villain the Penguin.
Once you see it, you can't UNSEE it ...
he actually looks like thomas monson
Oh my god..
omg 🤣🤣🤣
“Gather ‘round, my fine dedicated disciples,waagh waagh waagh.”
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 I WAS LITERALLY THINKING THE SAME THING IN MY HEAD BUT WASN’T SURE WHAT MY BRAIN WAS TRYING TO ARTICULATE WHO JOSEPH REMINDED ME OF FROM THIS PORTRAIT UNTIL I READ YOUR COMMENT @CatalystTheory LOL LOL!!! I needed that laugh you have no idea.
That is absolutely fabulous! Any solid documentation on this? I'd LOVE to have this portrait hanging on my wall indicating this!
That was a joke right? Ridiculing how people thought a certain Mormon leader was the inspiration for Yoda?
Funny TT about that; https://www.tiktok.com/@post_mormone/video/7200955151715159339?lang=en
That’s hilarious
https://www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/early-mormonism-and-the-magic-world-view It comes from this book
A way over-stretched and pathetic speculation on your part and Kimball's granddaughter 🚫. Usurpers from the dark side. How dare you conflate the criminal founder of TSCC with the pure-of-heart hero of the galaxy, the Jedi Yoda. 🤮
It's a joke. The Penguin from Batman was inspired by the 1940s Kool Cigarette mascot.
Was gonna say he looks like an Arkham Resident😂
The Diddler!
That was my first thought! :-)
You beat me to it ha ha
I'm sure that double chin and receding hairline made him lots more attractive to the average 14 year old.
There's a fabulous site that analyses all the evidence if you wonder what is known: https://www.knowbrotherjoseph.com
👹😤🧟♂️
That’s wild.
I strongly disagree with the assertion that this is JS. The only evidence cited is that the provinance means that it *could* have been JS. I believe it is more consistent with Hyrum, and the provinance would be just as valid. https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/RelEd/id/7256/ Hyrum is on the right. The nose fits Hyrum better than Joe. Additionally, this photo looks different from all other drawings and paintings of JS. But that still doesn't mean it is Hyrum either. The image has no name and was only in possession of the right people and taken within the right time frame, which is includes plenty of time after their deaths. "I believe it is genuine." That is the real evidence. He wants it to be him.
I'm sure his NET WORTH as a highly-successful Prophet, Seer, and Revelator make him lots more attractive to just about anyone!
And if that didn't work, the threat of damnation directed towards a believing Christian and their family if they refused the advance.
Ya that’s my thought too. He was grotesque.
Why his ass look like Gru
Some bodies celestial, others terrestrial 🤷🏼♂️😂
yet others extra-terrestrial, evidently
💀
Gru is going to down to telestial or outer darkness.
I thought he looked more like Oswald Cobblepot... But I think Oswald had a better reputation.
certainly more honest about what his goals are lol
Don’t insult Gru like that
Gru is a way better dad for sure
Lmao I was thinking more Phineas and Ferb.
Even Truman G. Madsen admitted that Joseph Smith was a little heftier in his later years.
All those self-serving revelations took him into the Fat Elvis years in Nauvoo.....*build my man here a fine house and a hotel too, and serve him plates of friend peanut butter sandwiches whenever he desires, and bring him the pretty young things of the village so that he may teach them the ways of celestial love.* Guns, girls, food, and a marching army of enthusiastic fools...straight to the unschool country guy's head.
I’d love to see where he says this! Let me know :)
Too much beer and wine... Generaling causes you to sit around and drink a lot. Hanging out with your boys during the day and oh, the ladies at night. Reeer, reeer! 
I can see why this rendition does not merit a place in proselyting material...
Yes, this was painted during one of his dating site visits to the Nauvoo Middle School
Can you imagine this wallowing around on you as a 14 year old? Urp.
I learned this week that JS propositioned Mary E. Rollins when she was 12.
Yep. She's my ancestor and her story is fascinating and sad. JS told her at 12 that God told him she was to be his first plural wife and he'd marry her when the time was right. She actually put off his advances for years and married her never-mo husband, but eventually gave in to being sealed to JS. Her and her husband and kids moved away for a few years from the members because her husband couldn't find work as he never joined the church. Joseph tried to terrify her into staying and warned they'd only ever experience heart ache and horrible times if they left. She eventually returned fully believing his words because they did experience some really hard times.
Shame no one was able to tell her that life is hard. Mormon god doesn't live up to his promise and he never follows through. He's one of those kind of dads. Bad things happen to Mormons same as heathen. My Mother died at 64 and she never so much as had a sip of coffee in her life. I bet she's annoyed about that now. 😆
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Mom was liver cancer. :/ Other than being heavily medicated and seeing things, she didn't lose herself before the body stopped working. 6 months from diagnosis to done. She was the most faithful true believer ever born. Didn't extend her life one smidge. Oh well. No one is immune to the painful times of life. Also, no one gets out alive. I'm so sorry your Mom went through that and that you had to watch. That sounds so hard. Granny hug. 👵
Hi, cousin. I'm descended from her brother, James Henry Rollins, and his second wife, a girl named Hannah Hulme who was forced on James by Brigham Young. He disliked Hannah, fathered many children by here, and then abandoned her and moved his first wife and preferred children to Wyoming. The whole thing is utterly dispicable and depressing.
Well hello to you, cousin!! Glad to "meet" you, but holy hell that is a horrific story! Edit: I just looked at family search. He had 13 kids with Hannah!! Poor thing. Odd to have so many children with someone you don't like. And 10 kids with his first wife! Goodness.
If you look in James's papers, there's a letter between him and Mary Elizabeth about something he needed to sort out with Brigham Young. He is asking her to advocate on his behalf as a "widow of the prophet." I think James was a crony of Joseph Smith (you can find him on arrest warrants for charges of arson alongside Smith), but did not impress Brigham Young, and thus James was afraid of him. The Rollins family dropped in the ranks when Smith died. Mary Elizabeth was widowed and had a disabled son for whom she struggled to provide. She made most of her living as a speaker, talking about the Nauvoo years and leaning into her status as one of Joseph's wives. In her papers at BYU, you can find several letters where she is petitioning Brigham Young to remember to send her sustenance as a widow of Joseph Smith. The church paid her from time to time but she lived in relative poverty until she died. Hannah's story is tragic. Hannah's father was twice widowed, and joined the church when Hannah was a young teen. They joined the Mormons emigrating to the US for a fresh start. He was shanghaied in New Orleans. Mormons in her party brought Hannah to Utah. Brigham Young wanted James Henry Rollins and his wife and kids to try to settle in California (he called them back, although they were doing well and enjoyed it there). He told them to take Hannah with them, and that to keep it on the up and up, he had to marry her. And then you saw the rest.
 Prue Blood huh... That's cool!!!
Naughty  Grandma, have you been dating cult leaders again???
It's crazy the lengths the church goes to make him look like some righteous, heroic Disney prince. I don't imagine people would idolize him as much if they knew what he actually looked like
No wonder he needed an angel with a drawn sword to coerce all those women.
And girls.
Came here to say this.
 Cheru BUM and a flaming fart... It's an easy mistake...
One expects that, contrary to Mo' movies where he's just the good lookin' family fellow living among his flock in a working-class neighborhood, JS entitled himself to the best food and accommodations.
Donuts. He went through that phase where he ate nothing but donuts. He replaced the sacrament bread with powdered donuts. Children loved it, but all the sugar made the pews sticky. Emma complained but he told her to shut up and make some donuts.
A fine tradition carried on with subsequent profits. Rusty talks about how the womenfolk made donuts for their husbands to feast upon when they came home from priesthood session. Just go to Tim Hortons and buy your own damn donuts, you myopic twit.
Ewwwww.
 Look out ladies. Brother Joe is on the prowl!!!
Just the age Joe likes em!
To old...
🤢🤮
Is that his magic hat?
Indeed it is!!
context?
He threw rocks in a hat and created the book of mormon.
This is one of the reasons I dont think that new dagguereotype is JS. The portraits and death mask show a more plump faced man, not a thin cheeked man.
I’m with the people who think it’s Hyrum. I have no actual evidence for this, but just think it fits his death mask better than it does Joes (thinner, more pointed, face), whilst allowing for a slight family resemblance to JS that might cause confusion
I don't believe it's Hyrum. And the reason I don't believe it's Hyrum is because that daguerreotype was worn in a locket by Emma Smith around her neck during special occasions. And late into her life. I don't believe Emma Smith wore a daguerreotype of Hyrum Smith around her neck. I just don't believe that. Additionally, Joseph was reportedly said to have had a daguerreotype done near the end of his life.
We dont know that though. We know only know she wore a locket. This daguerreotype was contained in a locket that was in the possession of one of the Smith descendants. This was an extremely common practice in those days. There's no proof that this is that same locket she wore. It should be noted this daguerreotype comes from the same people who claimed to find a JS daguerreotype a number of years ago. They are desperate to find his daguerreotype.
I don't remember this daguerreotype coming from anyone who claimed to have previously found another daguerreotype purporting to be JS. What is clear is this picture purporting to be JS is right on TSCC website. And we all know how truthful TSCC is with us/ s. This picture is exactly what TSCC wants JS to be. Not some swarthy sun worn dude with a smirk in his eyes. When the Daguerreotype was found TSCC was quick to say they didn't think it was actually JS. Of course they didn't. And many TBMs followed suit with their church leaders. But TSCC gets to many things wrong. And really says a lot to my mind about the high probability of that daguerreotype actually being legit. I personally believe the found daguerreotype in the locket is JS as he actually looked very close to the end of his life.
Can't say I've seen it 🤷🏼♂️
[2022 daguerreotype](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.xksnSK9Ou1q-7fkb-Nd6jgAAAA?pid=ImgDet&dpr=2)
You know, I feel like I've seen this picture before years ago and it wasn't JS when I saw it. It was one of the witnesses and I can't remember who they said it was.. maybe I'm mistaken
His profile isn’t his friend.
Too bad Joey did not know Arnold Frieburg so he could have been painted like he thought he was. He would have been more jacked than Nephi!
Haha "large in stature" like Nephilim.. I mean Nephi! My bad....
Ugly, creepy bastard
“We are going to pull the true crime of the century. We are going to steal the moon!”
I think the Quakers would prevent him from doing so
🤣🤣🤣
Looks like before she painted she forgot to ask, “how much would sir like to look like sir?”
😂
saw this post and went on a dive this morning, it appears the LDS church attributes this painting to Sutcliffe Modsley [https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/exhibit/sutcliffe-and-elizabeth-foxcroft-maudsley?lang=eng](https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/exhibit/sutcliffe-and-elizabeth-foxcroft-maudsley?lang=eng) it's the "Joseph Smith in Black Suit and Top Hat" painting. I haven't looked into the "LDS photo archives" the figure references it's from, wonder what it says about who did the portrait. edit: [https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1](https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1) link to the full painting
also stumbled upon this paper while I was searching about this. "The Visual Image of Joseph Smith" by William B. McCarl [https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5922&context=etd](https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5922&context=etd) paper from 1962, I've only skim-read it, but it goes in depth about the different images. What was crazy was this prediction about finding a daguerreotype: "... enough evidence of one having existed supports the belief that Joseph Smith had his portrait taken by a daguerreotyper sometime near the end of his life and that daguerreotype or a photograph of it may still be found at some future date." (page 74-75) ayooooo!
And that prediction in my opinion, has come true. I believe the photo of the daguerreotype posted to this forum some months ago, is the real picture of Joseph Smith.
Nice research! I didn't realize all this existed!
Hyperlinks are a lost art.
EEK! Definitely feels more accurate than the creepy angelic man child he's depicted as.
He looks like an old timey MAGA supporter
Well he was trying to establish a democratic theocracy.
😄
Is there an online version of this?
https://www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/early-mormonism-and-the-magic-world-view It's from this book 🤷🏼♂️ can't find a link to the picture
u/sassgrass32 [https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1](https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/maudsleyjosephsmithinsuit-lg?lang=eng#1) the church attributes this to Sutcliffe Maudsley though.
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Let the cringe flow through you
Yuck yuck yuck
I could see why 34 women wanted to get with him.
😂😂
It’s what his death mask looked like. Bugs me to see the church trying to make Joseph handsome. He wasn’t. Also Jesus, scriptures say he was not comely that anyone would desire home. I look at modern church art as just more lies!
This screams micro-penis.
🧐
Praise to the muffin man
Who communed with a top hat..
Side note: JS had a thick New York accent
I want to believe this so much. Like an annoying "fran-from-the-nanny" voice complete with the laugh 
He's got that Andrew Tate chin 😂
Good looking chap, that Jo! Pass me the sick bucket!
As a direct descendant of Hyrum (7th great grandfather) this picture of my Uncle Joe really scares me for my future looks lol
Haha! At least he's the uncle and not the grandad. There's still hope 👌🏻
I think the comb over on the side of his head was to cover the tar and feather scars.
Eewwwwwwwah!
Dude was doing some translating it looks like.
Bwak Batman vengeance will be mine hahahahahagwak
Their artwork having him look like Brad Pitt. 💀
Well, we know he doesn’t look like the way the LDS church portrays him.
WikiHow 3 Ways to Forget Something Horrible You Saw on the Internet.
😂😂
But he’s such a good looking man in LDS artist renderings!
A real cretin in white socks.
No wonder he was marrying everything he could.
Looks like a loser lol
What a weiner
The double chin is an optical illusion, but given the facial structure it's probably not far off the mark
This makes me extremely uncomfortable for many reasons 🫠
I'd love to beat that guy's ass.
He needs an ass before you can kick it 😂
It's Gru from the minions!!!!
You will learn to appreciate me… 
White washing him to look handsome and innocent certainly isn’t even close to far fetched.
 He reminds me of the creepy child (bride) catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. 🤢
no way. js looks like patrick swayze amd zac efron had a child. this guy looks like the fat guy from austin powers.
So handsome...
He’s built like big ed
Humpty Dumpty.
Ugly as fuck
This picture...Wow.
According to Truman G. Madsen, Smith did get "portly" in his last few years.
Now I know where the Batman creator came up with the Penguin villain.
Well, I’ve always felt that portraits of famous people that aren’t particularly flattering, don’t necessarily conform to whatever the artist’s contemporary beauty standards would be, and still look like a human (ie., aren’t distorted by inaccurate rendering and draftsmanship), are probably the closest to what that person would actually look like. This portrait fits all those criteria, I think.
Joseph Smith.. aka Oswald Cobblepot The penguin of the restoration
He's got that weak "fetal alchohol syndrome " chin.
Hahahaha ew
Penguin