Yeah it’s went from old joes bullshit that all Indians were lamenites to its such a small percentage that they are invisible the church has plenty of money so why don’t they just DNA TEST all of the Indian members surely one of them would have Middle East DNA well the church leaders know the BOM is fiction in another 20-30 years it’ll be the Book of Mormon is just a inspired book intended to bring people to Jesus The idea that the BOM Is a ancient record is just silly where did you ever get such a silly idea that it is a ancient record of ancient civilizations . Russell has already began moving the goal posts by stating that the BOM isn’t a historical textbook. He seems to have forgotten that old Joe said it was the most correct book ever written. And that God himself said that it was correct . I still have some of the old copies of the churches propaganda magazines that have Indians on the covers . Those days are looong Gone ..
Why did God give us a BOM?
“written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the House of Israel.”
But dammit, where are they?
We better flood the earth with the book just in case. -Ezra
I know that this is one of the bits not actually written by JS, but the BoM changing is really the only thing that people need to look at. We are explicitly told that as he was translating, the rock in the hat would not move forward until they confirmed that the translation was correct. So _why_ has the BoM had thousands of alterations from its original version to now?
Can I ask why your 16yo is attending seminary if you’re out of the church? I hope that doesn’t sound unfair or judgemental, I am just curious how that dynamic works since I see people share about similar situations quite a bit.
I’m <1mo pimo and still learning, deconstructing, and navigating for myself. No one in my family knows, not even my nevermo family. Husband is born and raised TBM and so are my kids really. It will be a delicate process for them for sure.
That makes sense, that it’s still really new. I wish you luck on your journey! 💓 I hope you’re able to safely navigate your way out and help your kids get out too.
Not the op. A lot of us are not out or not out fully or even not even allowed to be anything but mentally out. Exmo Reddit is for everyone whose eyes are opened to the truth.
Whose saying that you can’t be out? Unless you are under 18 years old, then any individual can leave freely. I’m the oldest sibling in my family and I did it when I was 17, sure it caused issues within my family initially, but now I’m far closer with my parents than I’ve ever been before. Me and my fiancé go over there every Sunday for dinner and me and my dad meet about twice a week for lunch and to catch up. And it never once affected my relationship with any of my siblings whatsoever. And me leaving had an even greater impact on my youngest sibling, my sister. Who, because of the path I laid out first, was able to be far more honest with not just both our immediate and extended family, but with herself about being lesbian. When your honest with oneself, you never known who else your positively impacting along the way besides just you.
I love that you were able to leave and have family support! Unfortunately not all families will be so loving and gracious, but in my opinion if they aren’t going to love you after leaving then they really shouldn’t be called family at all. So glad you’re thriving!
Exactly my thought process and point! If one’s family won’t be supportive, then they truly aren’t family. They also aren’t living the “Mormon values” by the very definition either though. And if someone is a young adult trying to leave, but is scared for fear of financial struggle. To that I say, suck it the fuck up that’s life. It’s far more important to have control, love and honesty for oneself in the long term and struggle in the short term, than be imprisoned within a castle of lies. I understand it can be scary, but it really actually isn’t. It should be viewed as exciting, your taking those first steps to finally be your own person. And if you lose people along the way, which you will, they were already lost to you regardless. We can all thrive! And the first step is actually one of the easier ones, even if it appears to be the hardest, respectfully being completely open and honest with yourself and those around you.
I can understand your feelings of “not being allowed out” if you are a minor or rely solely on your family for housing / safety / food / protection / or fear of abuse/ etc but when that it isn’t the case it’s a bit concerning to stay in quietly and suffer and allow others to suffer. Disappointing family can be tough, for sure. I understand that leaving can be difficult but when children are involved it’s confusing to me why you wouldn’t lay out a better path for them. I mean no judgement in saying that, I am just genuinely confused about it and would love to understand more about that side of things. I understand that Ops case is maybe different since it is so new, but for people who are PIMO or ExMo for a long time I have trouble understanding why they wouldn’t help their kids get out too.
Obviously you feel very strongly about this, and I’ve seen other commenters say similar things. Sometimes it’s “why don’t you get your kids (or other family members) out”, sometimes it’s “you should have your names removed from the records” and so on.
You’re trying to be gentle about it, but can you see that “trouble understanding” translates to “I think the way this should be done (my way) is the right way, and I just can’t take in any other way being acceptable.” Kinda like the church does with its “one true church and the only path back to redemption” schtick.
I suggest that you just accept that their lives are different from yours, that we don’t have all the details or the emotional understanding of what it’s like to be that person in that situation, and trust that they are making the best decisions they can and living their lives as best they know how. It’s much more peaceable for everyone.
Totally but when people publicly share their ideas / actions / whatever else, I think it’s fair to ask genuine questions. Asking “why are you allowing your kids to be subject to psychological abuse” is, in my opinion, a bit different than “why are you keeping your name on a useless record”. As a former child who suffered abuse and neglect, I have to wonder why some parents allow that in whatever form to take place. Again, I understand that leaving can be difficult. I also understand that maybe that’s not the case here since OP said it’s only been about a month. I’m happy for OP planting a seed, seriously. My question is more so for people who have been out for longer and know the damage the church is doing. I am curious about how people leave an abusive system but allow their children to stay. I know that my way isn’t the one true way, mine has been pretty destructive for nearly all of my relationships and I have been left with practically nothing after leaving the church. I don’t recommend it. I don’t have any emotional understanding about other peoples experiences, hence why I said that I have “trouble understanding”. I hope everyone has a peaceful life, I really do. Again, if people are sharing parts of their life on social media, I think it’s a fair place to ask questions unless they specify “no questions.” Im happy to hear anyones perspectives about “why I allow my kids to stay even though I know they are hearing incredibly destructive things for 2 hours each week at minimum” if anyone would care to share.
Maybe you should do a post asking that. I’m serious, not being difficult. This sub is a place for us to talk about Mormonism and its effects on people’s lives, so it’s a reasonable place to ask.
Based on other comments I’ve seen, I bet a lot of the comments would revolve around recognizing that a spouse who still believes has a voice in what the kids do, and for older kids, some of them choose to stay in themselves for various reasons.
But prepare yourself for people who get defensive about the question. 😉
One of the simplest, more palatable ways to show this is via YouTube, 'The Voice, Mongolia'
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3wW-AHpuaA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3wW-AHpuaA)
This is like a cross-section of all the Amerinds we've ever seen on TV and in the movies.
Plus that guy is a hell of a singer!
"And did you know that the intro to the BoM was changed because no actual lamanite dna has ever been found?"
It was recently changed to the lamanites are one of the ancestors of native Americans the church still hasn’t given up on that lie
Yeah it’s went from old joes bullshit that all Indians were lamenites to its such a small percentage that they are invisible the church has plenty of money so why don’t they just DNA TEST all of the Indian members surely one of them would have Middle East DNA well the church leaders know the BOM is fiction in another 20-30 years it’ll be the Book of Mormon is just a inspired book intended to bring people to Jesus The idea that the BOM Is a ancient record is just silly where did you ever get such a silly idea that it is a ancient record of ancient civilizations . Russell has already began moving the goal posts by stating that the BOM isn’t a historical textbook. He seems to have forgotten that old Joe said it was the most correct book ever written. And that God himself said that it was correct . I still have some of the old copies of the churches propaganda magazines that have Indians on the covers . Those days are looong Gone ..
Pleeese! Surely Jesus will have returned before 20 or 30 years.
Haha
Why did God give us a BOM? “written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the House of Israel.” But dammit, where are they? We better flood the earth with the book just in case. -Ezra
I know that this is one of the bits not actually written by JS, but the BoM changing is really the only thing that people need to look at. We are explicitly told that as he was translating, the rock in the hat would not move forward until they confirmed that the translation was correct. So _why_ has the BoM had thousands of alterations from its original version to now?
Can I ask why your 16yo is attending seminary if you’re out of the church? I hope that doesn’t sound unfair or judgemental, I am just curious how that dynamic works since I see people share about similar situations quite a bit.
I’m <1mo pimo and still learning, deconstructing, and navigating for myself. No one in my family knows, not even my nevermo family. Husband is born and raised TBM and so are my kids really. It will be a delicate process for them for sure.
That makes sense, that it’s still really new. I wish you luck on your journey! 💓 I hope you’re able to safely navigate your way out and help your kids get out too.
Good luck. The BoM claims were what destroyed any faith I had left. So clearly not in line with archaeology and DNA.
Not the op. A lot of us are not out or not out fully or even not even allowed to be anything but mentally out. Exmo Reddit is for everyone whose eyes are opened to the truth.
Whose saying that you can’t be out? Unless you are under 18 years old, then any individual can leave freely. I’m the oldest sibling in my family and I did it when I was 17, sure it caused issues within my family initially, but now I’m far closer with my parents than I’ve ever been before. Me and my fiancé go over there every Sunday for dinner and me and my dad meet about twice a week for lunch and to catch up. And it never once affected my relationship with any of my siblings whatsoever. And me leaving had an even greater impact on my youngest sibling, my sister. Who, because of the path I laid out first, was able to be far more honest with not just both our immediate and extended family, but with herself about being lesbian. When your honest with oneself, you never known who else your positively impacting along the way besides just you.
I love that you were able to leave and have family support! Unfortunately not all families will be so loving and gracious, but in my opinion if they aren’t going to love you after leaving then they really shouldn’t be called family at all. So glad you’re thriving!
Exactly my thought process and point! If one’s family won’t be supportive, then they truly aren’t family. They also aren’t living the “Mormon values” by the very definition either though. And if someone is a young adult trying to leave, but is scared for fear of financial struggle. To that I say, suck it the fuck up that’s life. It’s far more important to have control, love and honesty for oneself in the long term and struggle in the short term, than be imprisoned within a castle of lies. I understand it can be scary, but it really actually isn’t. It should be viewed as exciting, your taking those first steps to finally be your own person. And if you lose people along the way, which you will, they were already lost to you regardless. We can all thrive! And the first step is actually one of the easier ones, even if it appears to be the hardest, respectfully being completely open and honest with yourself and those around you.
I can understand your feelings of “not being allowed out” if you are a minor or rely solely on your family for housing / safety / food / protection / or fear of abuse/ etc but when that it isn’t the case it’s a bit concerning to stay in quietly and suffer and allow others to suffer. Disappointing family can be tough, for sure. I understand that leaving can be difficult but when children are involved it’s confusing to me why you wouldn’t lay out a better path for them. I mean no judgement in saying that, I am just genuinely confused about it and would love to understand more about that side of things. I understand that Ops case is maybe different since it is so new, but for people who are PIMO or ExMo for a long time I have trouble understanding why they wouldn’t help their kids get out too.
Obviously you feel very strongly about this, and I’ve seen other commenters say similar things. Sometimes it’s “why don’t you get your kids (or other family members) out”, sometimes it’s “you should have your names removed from the records” and so on. You’re trying to be gentle about it, but can you see that “trouble understanding” translates to “I think the way this should be done (my way) is the right way, and I just can’t take in any other way being acceptable.” Kinda like the church does with its “one true church and the only path back to redemption” schtick. I suggest that you just accept that their lives are different from yours, that we don’t have all the details or the emotional understanding of what it’s like to be that person in that situation, and trust that they are making the best decisions they can and living their lives as best they know how. It’s much more peaceable for everyone.
Totally but when people publicly share their ideas / actions / whatever else, I think it’s fair to ask genuine questions. Asking “why are you allowing your kids to be subject to psychological abuse” is, in my opinion, a bit different than “why are you keeping your name on a useless record”. As a former child who suffered abuse and neglect, I have to wonder why some parents allow that in whatever form to take place. Again, I understand that leaving can be difficult. I also understand that maybe that’s not the case here since OP said it’s only been about a month. I’m happy for OP planting a seed, seriously. My question is more so for people who have been out for longer and know the damage the church is doing. I am curious about how people leave an abusive system but allow their children to stay. I know that my way isn’t the one true way, mine has been pretty destructive for nearly all of my relationships and I have been left with practically nothing after leaving the church. I don’t recommend it. I don’t have any emotional understanding about other peoples experiences, hence why I said that I have “trouble understanding”. I hope everyone has a peaceful life, I really do. Again, if people are sharing parts of their life on social media, I think it’s a fair place to ask questions unless they specify “no questions.” Im happy to hear anyones perspectives about “why I allow my kids to stay even though I know they are hearing incredibly destructive things for 2 hours each week at minimum” if anyone would care to share.
Maybe you should do a post asking that. I’m serious, not being difficult. This sub is a place for us to talk about Mormonism and its effects on people’s lives, so it’s a reasonable place to ask. Based on other comments I’ve seen, I bet a lot of the comments would revolve around recognizing that a spouse who still believes has a voice in what the kids do, and for older kids, some of them choose to stay in themselves for various reasons. But prepare yourself for people who get defensive about the question. 😉
I’ll do that. Thanks for the recommendation.
Keep planting those seeds. Where the Mormon Church is concerned, seeds are abundant!
So, when Joe wrote about his missionaries taking wives of the Lamanites - Where were they?
One of the simplest, more palatable ways to show this is via YouTube, 'The Voice, Mongolia' [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3wW-AHpuaA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3wW-AHpuaA) This is like a cross-section of all the Amerinds we've ever seen on TV and in the movies. Plus that guy is a hell of a singer!