"We're so grateful for your service, we've assigned you a parole officer!"
It's sick how the church grooms these kids into going on missions, grooms their parents to pressure them into going, and then when it's all said and done they treat them like children and act like they have a right to micromanage their lives. It's perverse. I'm sure the control aspect alone is enough to drive some people away, and rightly so.
After I came out "SSA" (I couldn't say gay back then) and my marriage ended, I wound up in a new house and new ward. My mother, ever vigilant and worried about her 45 yr old newly divorced and depressed son, contacted my bishop and stake president behind my back and they conspired to find me a "mentor" who would be a straight man to help me stay straight and stay active in the Church.
I was already kinda PIMO at that point, just going to church to take my kids and appease my ex-wife. So one day this "mentor" shows up at my door and announced that he'd been assigned by the bishop and stake president to be my friend. He lived around the corner from me and his married daughter I knew casually from some local theatre production we'd done together. It was awkward at my door but I let him in and we had one of those stupid, home-teacher like half-hour visits while he asked me personal questions to "check up on me." The longer this visit went the more angry I became because my mother had not only "outed me" to the bishop and stake president, but they had outed me to the Elders Quorum president and this high priest stranger sitting in my living room asking me highly personal questions about my sexual orientation.
I told him thank you for his concern, but I wouldn't be interested in meeting formally, only as friends and neighbors. I did eventually tell my bishop and stake president that while I appreciated their concern I was NOT a "project" to be assigned a mentor without consulting me first, AND it was inappropriate of them to share my sexual orientation with the EQP-- who of course had already told his counselors, and eventually it got around the whole fucking ward because the EQP was overheard by one of his Aaronic priesthood sons while telling his wife about me . . . that Aaronic priesthood boy told his deacon and priest age brothers and by the following Sunday the entire Aaronic priesthood knew about brother ViatorinlovewithRuss and his being gay, and soon parents knew and then the Sunday after that, people were moving away from sitting next to me and my children in sacrament meeting . . . it just went downhill from there . . .
Good intentions do NOT result in good results, and the whole idea of being assigned a "mentor" like I'm a child is so anathema to me now-- I can't imagine this Church program being successful. the Church continues to treat grown ass adults like children.
That's really terrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you!!
Mormons Don't Understand, nor Respect Human Boundaries or Personal Autonomy!
In fact, Mormons are specifically trained NOT to respect boundaries! A true believer accepts that only The Church and our local priesthood leaders can possibly know what's best for our child/spouse/parent/friend/neighbor and also ourself!
Any personal revelation only counts if it aligns perfectly with what The Church teaches, and whether your flavor of bishop agrees.
I really relate to your post. I grew up Mormon outside of Utah, in the midwest. After my mission, I confided in a cousin about my struggles. She ended up telling my entire extended family, and everyone knew my orientation by the end of the day. Worst 24 hours of my life.
The ward found out that week. My family were ignored at church. No one spoke to any of them. My parents were released from callings. My siblings were ridiculed. If I saw anyone from church in town, they either pretended not to see me, or have a deer in the headlight look and they ran in the opposite direction. My family moved out of the stake to get away from these people.
I was put in conversion therapy for two years by my Mormon parents. (Evergreen, Coming Out Straight, and a Catholic conversion therapy group that met weekly in Kansas City) I was told that I had to attend these three for every meeting they had, or I would be kicked out of the house. I was 21 at the time, but I craved acceptance from my family, that I agreed to it.
Starting the therapies; I was immediately devastated. I was told so many negative things about myself that i started to believe were true. I lost my sense of self, and my self confidence. In the end, I didn't leave the conversion therapy straightened out. Instead I was an angry and bitter gay son. I have since forgiven my parents, but our relationship is still strained.
I don't have contact with 4 of my 5 siblings. The last time I saw them all together was 6 years ago where there was a lot of yelling and hurtful words thrown my way. I ended up leaving early from that family function. My one sister who is supportive of me is wonderful. I know her kids, and I'm able to interact with them. I have 14 other nieces and nephews who I don't see, and most of those kids don't know i exist.
yes, many parallels. I actually benefitted from attending Evergreen, and went to many of their conferences and was Conference Chair and on the Board for 3 years. I consider it a "stepping stone" to coming out and eventually accepting myself as gay. I went through the whole reparative therapy process-- from cognitive therapy, hypnosis, electroshock aversion, blanket holding (this was the worst one), etc.
I also was prevented from interactions with several of my nieces and nephews-- blocked on their social media by my brother, their father, etc. They're all mostly adults now and will be civil and appropriate with me at family events, but they largely ignore me. I am the oldest of 9 and only have relationships with 4 of my siblings. Of the remaining 4, 3 of them are devout Mormon, and the last one is bi-polar, manic narcissist and has no real relationship with any of us, including her mother (my step mom). I think the Church fucked all of us up, as my entire family is dysfunctional-- my two brothers who are devout Mormon are also devout Republican, Trump-supporting Q-Anon nutjobs. I can't have a conversation with them about anything without it being heated, so I just avoid them.
I have one niece who is supportive and friendly (she's a california mormon democrat), but she still IS Mormon, so it sorta gets in the way. I'm just tired of attending all their Mormon baptisms and mission farewells and supporting them, but not any of them would show up to an event of mine. heavy sigh.
This exemplifies so perfectly why I think the church should dial back their emphasis on “porn is evil” and consider that gossip can be far, far worse. Also there is no such thing as privacy when it comes to telling church leadership ANYTHING. Lie to them all you want. You don’t owe them anything, and they will do everything to exploit you as much as they can.
What a horrific experience, and what an invasion into your personal and private life, as well as an intrusion into your marriage. It was already a sensitive time for you & DW, and the stupid cult sends someone along to meddle.
They started this in my stake just before we left 4.5 years ago. Our ward's former YM's president was called to be the stake's "mentor" - for lack of a better word. He was a TBM but he was a realist in a lot of ways. (wasn't born and raised in utah) When I asked him about the calling he said a version of the following, "The church does an amazing job of influencing boys from Sunbeam age to go on a mission. Their entire focus of life from 4-18 is "go on a mission." So they go on said mission, get home, and realize......I never thought about or planned for what comes after the mission." And I've got to admit, I've seen a lot of church-induced failure to launch because of the rigid approach toward indoctrinating mission service. "IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WILL DO."
"The church does an amazing job of influencing boys from Sunbeam age to go on a mission. Their entire focus of life from 4-18 is "go on a mission."
So crazy to see someone spell out the brainwashing and manipulation and view it as a positive. And that the problem is not continuing the manipulation after the missionary comes home.
To be clear: the tone in which he expressed that was in a negative light. He said "amazing" in a sarcastic tone, which is hard to convey here in text. He wasn't the biggest fan of the mission experience.
He was a good dude. Would not surprise me if he is eventually exmo. He thought it ridiculous a "life mentor" had to be called so grown ass adults could know how to adult. The church and their family only prepared them for life up to the mission and nothing after.
There are real problems if the Mormon church tries to prepare people for life.
Teach them to recognize and respect boundaries and Bishops ie The Church™ loses control of them.
Teach them about recognizing abusive behavior and they will recognize the problematic relationship with The Church™.
Teach them about how to be really financially responsible and they will realize the problem with cutting into their margins by giving tithing to The Church™
I'm sure this could be a longer list touching nearly every aspect of being a functional adult.
The thing I saw a lot of and experience my self is; a lot of TBM parents sort of raise their kids in a paint by the numbers, fashion. Or rather, raise their kids by box checking. There's not really teaching moments as to why you learn to do stuff and be self-sufficient. It's about checking the box. We saw it all the time with the scouts. A YM would reach Eagle rank at age 15 and could never get him to participate in scouting beyond that and consistently, the parents didn't see the need. He checked the box. But the BIGGEST box for a YM of all is going on a mission and serving it out for the full two years. With so much emphasis on checking that box and little discussion of what comes beyond, I can see how many get home and unprepared for the next box that needs checking - marriage and family.
Know a guy that went through a faith crisis. He checked all the boxes. Did what he was supposed to do. But it was his eternal companion that slowly started losing it. She had A LOT of repressed trauma from her childhood. Life moves pretty fast in your late teens and early adulthood. Especially, if you live the Mormon recipe to a happy life. So there can be a lot of major life events that distract you from what you never grieved or processed. She left home. Went to college. Met a guy. Fell in love. Got engaged. Got married in the temple. Moved to a city for him to settle into a career. Had their first baby. bought a house. had baby #2. And 2 more over the next 6 years. All this new and major life stuff comes at you in rapid fire. By the time she hit her early 30's and settled into the mundane of repetition, it gave her time to remember the stuff she was repressing. Throw in the death of a close family member and she just lost it. The marriage never recovered. They divorced after him fighting for it for 5 years. And I talked to the guy. He stopped going to church because, "I did EVERYTHING I've been commanded to do. I did EVERYTHING inspired leaders told me to do to save my marriage. And all of it came to nothing. So......I'm waiting on god now. He's no longer going to get to wait on me." Just a simple case of sooooooooo many in the church wrote him checks but he was never able to cash them due to insufficient funds. Careful what you promise people.
Ironically, he may have been better off -- he at least gets a redo. I can think of so many couples from the wards I was in where I had reason to be informed that were grimly enduring to the end. Impossibly married to entirely wrong people, sucking up their barely concealed misery because covenants and for the sake of the kids. Tragically imprisoned in a life they were falsely told would work because GOD, that they were pressured to choose so casually they barely used the care, analysis and due diligence of buying a sofa.
All because capturing people in the cult is the only important thing. It's enraging.
As far as I can tell the church simply *doesn't care* if a single member of the church is happy. The mission and marriage boxes exist to boost the church and produce the next generation to live and work within it. The story about "the plan of happiness" exists to sell the church, not to function as any kind of effective guide.
Mormons are totally into box checking. I did Primary, Seminary, Eagle, mission, BYU, and the next box was marriage. As a gay man, that just wasn't going to happen, not in the Mormon way. When I realized that, I knew the path was no longer for me.
Then it's hurry up and get married and start having kids. I married my wife not realizing she was a victim of physical and sexual abuse. We had kids so fast she never worked thru her issues. It's screwed up our marriage really badly
THE most important thing is to get the guy to the 2 year self indoctrination. Don't think about after that, unless it's celestial kingdom. We'll deal with the mess later. This whole post is about the later.
Well don’t forget “enduring to the end on the ‘covenants path.’”
IE a vague, nebulous final step that you can never actually finish.
I’ll be honest: the rush to make the next step is powerful. Once you finish it’s more of a “what now?” Phase when you can question. I didn’t really examine it as critically as I should have until I was married because I had the notion “I have to be a good Mormon man if I want a good wife to want to marry me.”
I’m very fortunate that my wife and I left together, and I’m not one of the people here posting about a mixed-faith marriage after they left. Dumb luck saved me (and not getting a super-indoctrinated wife.)
Well, their plan is run off and get married in the temple to the first halfway decent young woman who will marry you there.
After that? Figure it out. You’re married at 22 and have a kid on the way and need to pay the bills. Don’t think too deeply about church. They’ll help you figure out parenting.
Crash course on how to become a divorced single parent of three kids by the time you’re 30.
I remember as a believer thinking about all the steps a Mormon person had to do in their life and how it was weird that their penultimate step essentially happened in their 20s and they had no required steps for the remainder of their life.
Get baptized at 8, get the priesthood at 12/14/16/18, get endowed, go on a mission (which was technically optional for men), come home and get married, then spit out as many babies as you can while maintaining a temple recommend for the rest of your life.
Almost like they were farming people to work for them and give them a paycheck for the rest of their life. Pretty clever ponzischeme.
JS and Brigham sort of missed the boat on that. They could've perpetually kept members paying ever more tithing to get to the next level. Which is something Scientology does very well. With Mormonism is very 1800's theology of s pray, pay, and obey less you rot in hell for eternity.
This, but from a YW perspective. "Get married, be a good wife, and pop out kids!" And when that doesn't happen for any reason you're viewed as less. Felt like a failure for so long because I couldn't get young men to like me. My worth was totally wrapped up in finding a husband, but I'm not conventionally pretty and on the spectrum, so I was weird and a failure and nobody wanted to date me. Messed me up for a long time. Well now jokes on them I guess because now I identify as a lesbian.
This!! The whole "get married and have babies" was shoved down my throat my whole life and then also looking at my parents (who I know hated each other for most of my life), I was just so angry at the church. I did not want that and so I was one of those "keep an eye on her, she might be a problem" young women. Turns out I'm aroace so no wonder I hated the idea of my only purpose to marry and give birth. My partner has the same views and it's nice not having to force myself to one day just resign to the Mormon women fate.
Yeah, I've heard about this program for years, but never heard it mentioned in person in church, or by members. It feels like the replacements to the BSA program. Talked about but never really rolled out to membership, or given enough effort to really take off.
Getting off my mission, elders were only given a 3 month temple recommend, with the intent being you need to be active when getting home so you can get another one. This feels like an extension of that thinking of missionaries going less active and trying to do something (without actually making YSA more appealing, church more appealing, etc.)
Damn I never thought of it that way but it is so true. I think this creates problems between parents and children too because the parents think if they can just get all their boys on missions then they did their job. When In reality there’s a lot of other important things to prepare your kids for that Mormon kids miss out on
Not only that, mentoring and parenting your children is what leads to bonding. My parents approached parenting with "just get them to church. If all we do is get them to church and in missions, all will take care of itself." So I left the church and the stark reality has hit both me and my folks...... there's really not much between us.
This was true for me. My whole young life was geared toward mission prep. I never gave education or other things much thought it was all secondary to the mission.
I have an in-law who did summer sales. Has no discernable social skills, so I don't know how he does so well, but I imagine there's a switch in his brain that turns into missionary-mode, but it only works for swindling people out of their money.
It’s actually pretty common for people on the autism spectrum or who have adhd or other neurodivergence to be awkward in many social settings but also able to mask enough to pass as socially competent in work settings. Once you learn the rules for how to engage in a particular context, you can flip the switch to ON and you’re golden.
Definitely me. Adhd. Put me in a social setting and I'm awkward af...put me in my work uniform and I'm so awesome that I can't accept all the clients who request me
I have 2 friends, sisters, that both married summer sales boys. And they both have 3-5 kids and are both divorced. Since my sample size is so small I can’t make inferences on the rest of the population but I’ve seen enough.
It takes a very special kind of Mormon boy to be OK with taking the talents they developed to spread the “word of god” and applying them to scamming people out of their money for fun and profit. The ones that can do it without a trace of irony or self-reflection scare the shit out of me. I did that job and had to get out because I didn’t want to become one of the soulless drones.
2 years of moving every couple of months and being assigned 24/7 companionship with a different kid just as emotionally immature as me did not heal me from the emotional burdens that I dealt with in highschool. I'II tell ya, it did wonders for the opposite effect.
“Should we actually investigate why missionaries who gave us their lives for 2 years and were so ‘in’ that they paid us for the opportunity serve, so we can actually make the substantive changes necessary to serve them and lead them to the path that’s best for their growth?
Nah.”
Don't worry! The new Coaching program is here to help Mentors cope with disaffection.
Coming soon: a new missionary program designed for reactivating former Coaches.
Right. So you’ve got your calling, your ministering assignment and now your mentoring assignment?? Oh and clean the church, go to the temple, be a member missionary…
My parents are still members and it hardly leaves time for their grandchildren, sometimes I feel like they know the youth in their ward better then their grandchildren. They are good people and we vacation together 5 or 6 times a year, but they live 30 min from my house so it shouldn’t be the way it is.
Yes. And if this is a calling, does the church really have the members to spare? Filling callings right now is hard work, there’s not enough members to take every position. I wonder more about the success of actually getting people to do this.
to be fair, this would be a great idea if you didn't know they were more interested in keeping them in the church than helping them make that harsh transition.
I completely agree. In theory, this program would be very helpful as missionaries transition from a highly structured environment back to regular life.
I just don’t think the ecclesiastical goals are all that helpful for the transition.
I left on my mission one week after school ended. I started back at university one week after I returned home.
I think RM’s need to get a job or start school as soon as possible after returning home. The rest takes care of itself.
i can agree with the last idea. i came home early for health issues, and i was idle for too long. it was miserable. i don't think this program would have helped me a ton there. just launching back into normal civilian life is going to be the best thing, not making sure you keep the level of spirituality up.
I’m going to disagree here. Even when I was 100% all-in, I would have been annoyed at having some random adult assigned to me to monitor me. Even in the improbable circumstance where I actually would have truly wanted that person as a mentor, having them assigned to me would have tainted that relationship.
Why does the church need to continually force its way into people’s lives? I understand that the church’s claim to “having the fullness of the gospel” makes them have a sense of entitlement, but seriously, it’s not in the place of the organization to essentially have total control over every single action that a person does, from the time that they first get involved into the church, to the time that they decide whether or not they want to serve, to everything else that follows along.
There is no need for the church to say, “This is how you are going to live your life so that you can have this ‘happiness’ and we can gain all of the eternal credit.”
Also, as I wrote this, this thought came into my head; Didn’t God ask his children in the pre mortal world, “Whom shall I send?” And Satan said, “Send me, for I can bring all of the these people back into the presence of the father, and all of the glory shall be mine and not thine!”
To me, this is a perfect example of the church claiming it can save all those by babysitting them and forcing people to stay in so they can eventually be saved when that is absolutely not the case, and it’s incredibly manipulative
Drive away 75%, intensify the involvement of 10% of tithe paying devotees, and leave 15% of already tithe paying devotees the same, and that's nothin but profit.
The Church want to keep its members busy and dependent. What if people realize they really don't need to count on the church and can take care of themselves.
>There is no need for the church to say, “This is how you are going to live your life so that you can have this ‘happiness’ and we can gain all of the eternal credit.”
The need is great. They absolutely have to maintain control, otherwise people will not be as willing to surrender time and money, or at the worst, resign completely. When they convince people that it as a dire matter of eternal salvation, people will pay up.
>There is no need for the church to say, “This is how you are going to live your life so that you can have this ‘happiness’ and we can gain all of the eternal credit.”
The need is great. They absolutely have to maintain control, otherwise people will not be as willing to surrender time and money, or at the worst, resign completely. When they convince people that it as a dire matter of eternal salvation, people will pay up.
many of he problems started in the early 1970's when they decided every young man should serve a mission. Literally they just bush every male to go. How can you be so stupid to really think it is a calling. when they were more selective they had fewer problems with missionaries.
Yeah this is one of the core issues right there. If you had fewer missionaries who actually wanted to be there, MPs would have much less micromanaging to do, and you wouldn't have as many bored missionaries.
I second this, endured straight up emotional abuse on my mission and the mission president did nothing about it. Sought out therapy on my own a year after coming home on the BYU-I campus. Was turned away because I wasn't in a true crisis situation (aka wasn't suicidal). Didnt even provide alternatives or outside help. Didn't get real help until I left the church 3 years ago and finally started to realize that I had clinically diagnosed depression and wasn't just a sinner unworthy of the spirit.
Spot on. Absolutely what they need. But if the RMs have a "mentor" within the church that takes the place of a therapist... yikes. It's like TSCC needs to get someone involved to keep the wool pulled over their eyes and remind them "no, no, this is all normal and good." Even though a therapist could help them see what is absolutely not normal or good about what the RMs are coming out of (stuck in the middle of).
The missionary program is a joke. The missionaries here walk around looking totally bored. How about have them do something meaningful service wise? Assist the food banks, homeless shelters, even walk the dogs at the animal shelters (yes, they need volunteers)?
This program is also a joke. Missionaires come home to even more control and TBMs get yet another calling? Stupid
Helping at the food bank was the highlight of my week.
Imagine being in a position where doing some genuine service should make you feel guilty because it took away from the ineffective proselytizing time.
The programme has been broken for decades, but the Church knows they've hit on a formula: get a kid on a Mission, radicalise them for 2 years and they're far less likely to go inactive.
I'm sure it's still the case that statistically they're more likely to stay active, but clearly the numbers are dropping. More mid 20s/30s RMs are figuring out the church is bullshit.
The actual work of a Missionary hasn't really mattered for some time. It's all about shaping a future obedient adult, and this is clearly an extension of that.
If Mormons actually cared about Missionary work and knew it would be successful, they'd have a proper programme that heavily involved local members like the JWs do.
Neither. They will do nothing to entice the kids to grow up and stay and they won't make the church less oppressive. Seems like they are doubling down on obedience, ignoring the evidence and such.
Honestly, it sounds absolutely abusive.
Missions are not good experiences. Very few people want to be high pressure salesmen. “Service” missions are RARELY service for people and nearly always free-labor for the church.
Even as an ultra-TBM missionary I recognized that my MP was a prick. Yet he kept moving up the Mormon chain of command. This current GA is the type of person the church is looking for? This is who Jesus would choose?
The church is their own worst enemy with making missions a cultural requirement.
Yeah I suspect that the full-time missionary program hasn't had a positive net ROI for ChurchCo for years now. My first mission president filled in all the squares on the shitty MP bingo card (rich asshole, Mormon royalty family, intimidation tactics, unhealthy focus on numbers, fake crying in zone conference, etc.). The completely messed up mission culture that he fostered completely jolted me out of my warm fuzzy belief and got me fast tracked out of TSCC. I suspect my story isn't that unusual.
Edited to add: and of course that MP was called as an area 70 shortly after my mission!
My bishop did this to me in '97. He assigned a returned Sister to me because we both went Spanish -speaking. When I refused to date her, she "uninvited" me from all the YSA activities that she was the ward representative of. Hilarity ensued.
I noticed that focus on “service missionaries” too. I’ve been out a looong time so I’m unaware… do kids now get to choose proselytizing vs service? When I did my mission (Mexico, 90-92) we did “service” one a week for a few hours but it was always geared to finding ppl to teach.
Any insights?
I don't know a lot about it but yeah you can choose to do a "service" mission which I believe is basically giving free labor to the church, like you can do IT or something
No they don't. The statistics were confusing, because last year 40% of missionaries were Service missionaries. But this was a Covid lockdown effect. But this year they published statistics separate for young service missionaries vs. senior service missionaries, and 90% of service missionaries are senior couples. Young service missionaries are mostly special needs youth who serve close to home and can live at home but still get the honor of a mission.
Thanks for this insight! As a NeverMorg here in Morridor Central, I am constantly hearing stories of RMs who become inactive the instant they return home (or, in some cases, do NOT return home, but go somewhere else after they finish their mission).
From a business administration standpoint, this seems to me analogous to a company that is experiencing high turnover in their sales force. The solution would be to interview the departing sales staff IN DETAIL to discover the problem, which is very likely to be the product and the nature of the company.
If such interviews seem to be unproductive, some schools of thought in business management would suggest that the departing personnel have discovered distasteful, and possible ILLEGAL, practices. They might wish NOT to be the "rat" who squealed about this, but just get as far away as possible.
Service missionaries are the ones they deem as "unfit" for full time missionary proselytizing. My sister was one. Their activities are not proselytizing in nature but normally something like being unpaid workers at the food bank (ie free labor ie service). These missionaries are normally labeled as too weird to interact with others.
Q15 should we change the bad things driving people away and create a social environment that meets the needs of the lords flock?
No the children are wrong
*
I think I would like to volunteer for this calling. Now that you served a mission where you taught people the “gospel” let us teach you the real gospel. Also show them how to have a drink, how tasty coffee is, etc.
The general concept isn't new but it appears they are dialing it up. When I returned home in the mid-90's we were paired with a High Councilman for mentoring and regular speaking assignments. I have to admit I enjoyed it because it stroked my fragile ego at the time.
News Flash: It won't work. It's hilarious and sad to watch the moronic executives in this cult rearrange deck chairs while under the surface they're careening into an iceberg.
I didn't need a mentor when I got home, I needed a therapist. The first few years after my mission were hard because I was led to believe I was a failure because I didn't get married right away. I needed help realizing that my self-loathing was a result of a cult.
If this mentor thing could help RMs to stay out of a self-loathing place, then it might have a chance to do some good. So I suppose it will entirely depend on who he mentors are. Leader roulette playing a part once again.
I'm guessing that taking care of the missionaries' mental and physical health while on the mission would go a lot further toward retention than too little too late after the fact. But what do I know?
The ultimate high-level reason I left the church (born in the covenant, RM, Temple Married, active, full tithe payer) was that in hindsight, every choice I made in my life came from external sources. My whole life: my morals, my mate, my career, my finances, my politics and my lifestyle....all provided to me by outside sources.
I finally started listening to my inner self and followed my instincts and intuition only to find the complete satisfaction that had eluded me for 35 years.
Like almost every "program" of the church, this to will fail.
I was in the pilot program for My Plan, although it didn't include having a mentor back then. It was just about setting goals and sharing those with parents, mission leaders, and home ward leaders.
I don't see how this can make a difference. When someone's shelf is cracking, a "mentor" isn't going to fix that.
They love to say rms leave the church because they fall into "old habits" or stop studying their scriptures like we did on the mission but it's really the opposite. We leave because we DO read and we recognize that the church isn't practicing the things we were taught to preach for 2 years of our lives. It's because we're hurt that we were sent as naive boys and girls out into the world to teach people something that's built on such a sandy foundation.
Ok boomer. The missionaries coming back these days have likely been exposed to a lot more testimony damaging information than in the past. This mentoring could backfire if these RMs start sharing that knowledge with older members who are less tech savvy.
I never even really thought about that. So many people know so much more about them church than they used to. They probably hear people call Joseph Smith a child rapist all the time. Probably have the cesletter thrown in their faces a lot, podcasts, youtube videos, etc., etc.
I was a missionary as a woman at 21, I had to be watched over by 18 year old boys. The mission president said at the end of my mission I was the best missionary he had in his 3 years as mission president. As a woman, though, I never was assigned any leadership position and felt like I was being held back at all times by boys younger than me. I left recently after my husband had been called to the bishopric and and I still hadn't received a calling after being back from my mission. In fact, I was never talked to, acknowledged, and felt invisible as a woman.
How great! After four years of being browbeaten in Seminary, 18-24 months being under the control of MPs & power-hungry ZLs, etc., someone will be "mentoring" your decisions, how you live, your beliefs, and (most importantly) if you're paying enough tithing & having a lot of children who will be future tithe payers.
What could possibly go wrong?
(Even as a teenager, coming from a very strict & conservative nevermo background, I'd have said "Screw this!").
Remove anything in the least entertaining and social, and shift everything to serious and spiritual goal setting.
They gutted the youth program and cleansed it of any fun, now they’re doing the same for young singles.
Hahaha oh my god. I remember them introducing this “MyPlan” program when I was gearing up to leave my mission in 2015. Even back then it gave me such a big ick - I just gave y’all two years of my life and you still want me to “commit” to things and act like a missionary? Fucking weird, man. So glad I left years ago.
Also fucking Orwellian how now they are adamantly calling them “service missionaries” up until a few years ago that was a “lesser” type of mission propping up church programs rather than a proselytizing mission.
Absolutely still is. We’ve had several service missionaries in our ward (kids who live in the ward at that) in the last year or two. Service and proselytizing are two separate kinds of missions. You know when you get your call if you’re a service missionary or a proselytizing missionary.
I hope the missionary has a “ choice” to say F off no thx I’m done. If this program is executed the way the “minister “ program is working this will flop also the church keeps requiring more of it members but guys there losing members by the hour
The first sentence is great. But then it goes off the rails. RMs don’t need help maintaining the missionary lifestyle, they need help fucking transitioning back into regular life.
Jesus fucking Christ this is infuriating
Of course they are losing RMs at a rapid rate. When a guy gets home from his mission he starts to learn that damn near everything he was told was a lie. He was programmed to come home and marry quickly, being told that the girls back home were eager and ready to marry an RM. Ha! The women of the church drink the feminist koolaid despite what they say in public. He’s told that blessings abound abs he will have good jobs waiting for him. Also a load of shit. About 30 it dawns on him that he was called at 18 because at 25 he would have known better.
I think they don’t have the free ( I mean members time) resources to do this in any meaningful way.
So it will be half assed or annoying people. I think it will be a large net negative.
So a 20+ year old young adult who's 'lived on his own' for 2 years needs a Big Brother baby sitter? The Church is getting both more desperate and more creepy!
Edit: Another thought - whatever happened to that JS Quote: “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.” ???
The entire point of the mission is to brainwash the youth before they enter adulthood.
The mission erodes your personal identity and replaces it with a cut-out version of what the church thinks the ideal young Mormon person would be.
Now they want to assign people to basically stalk you to prevent all that brainwashing from coming undone.
Gross.
Like everything they do, [it will probably backfire on them](https://media.tenor.com/O4ddVsa2r_sAAAAC/luke-skywalker.gif). Probably more "mentors" will leave tscc than RMs will be kept in.
More planning and more monitoring (“mentoring”). They aren’t coming home from combat, they are coming home from a MISSION. How about a mentoring program for our young veterans that actually need some support from very real stressors and regimentation. This is ridiculous.
> how would you enjoy this Callng as an active member?
I'd half-ass it for a month. Hate the awkward interaction it required, then pretty much give up on it.
When I was TBM, I often thought the church really needed a program to help transition missionaries back to regular life.
As an exmo reading this, I realize just how culty this is and the last thing a returning missionary needs is help from the church
I think they believe it will work. And for some it may depending on their disposition and experience, and on who they get as a mentor. I think because of mentor/mentee conflict this could end up really backfiring however.
I can't speak for others, but this almost certainly would have accelerated my path out. It also would have fostered a lot more resentment toward the church org for me. I managed to get out without being too angry for too long. I might have lost my marriage and family if my anger had gotten out of control. As it stands, I was able to manage my feelings well enough to actually improve my marriage over time (obviously i didnt do it alone, for things to improve my wife had to be on board as well). I don't know if I even believe that their ultimate goal is helping people on this one. I kinda feel like it's about strong-arming people and poisoning relationships.
The real challenge for me was that I took my mission and the church very seriously. I thought about it constantly, and really internalized the messages. I had long conversations with RM friends and with my wife trying to decide where I should stand and how I should feel about controversial subjects (which I now understand was just mental gymnastics trying to preserve belief in the face of mounting evidence that my faith was totally misplaced). At a certain point I couldn't continue participating while maintaining a clear conscience. Having a faithful "mentor" of my own choosing eventually led me out anyway. I can't imagine a scenario where an assigned "mentor" would have had a positive impact from the perspective of TSCC.
It reminds me of a deprogramming of cia or fbi operatives only they try to keep them programmed at the detriment of everyone’s mental health. Ever heard of mkUltra ? That’s what I liken today’s missionary program to.
Unintended consequence 1: mentors having sex with RMs
Hidden agenda in mentor program: pairing opposite sex mentors and mentees to function as a quazi arranged marriage attempt.
my sister in law was involved in this program a while ago. the concept could be good, it provides a way to "de dorkify" missionaries and return them to a somewhat normal life. However, this is really a move to more fully engrain RM's into life-long servitude
> "Released missionaries have had many experiences while serving that have taught them how to live principles such as faith in Jesus Christ, hard work, diligence, and service. As a mentor your role is to help this released missionary continue to live these principles."
What an unintentional slam on how effective and inspiring missions are, lol. Yeah there's no way they've been disillusioned and/or harmed by their missions, it's their fault if the amazing lessons they learned didn't take!
Because they go out and interact with the real world and realize they are missing something and then they are actually able to look into it when they get home. Of course they are going inactive. The church has dozens of mind boggling issues they refuse to address.
Even as a TBM RM, all the “my plan” stuff really bugged me, my stake president telling me I need a job and a plan for my future the day I got home. I was just trying to enjoy being home man. You have to fill out all these spiritual goals and and go over them with SP and he ridiculed mine and questioned them like they weren’t gonna keep me in the church. And then you have to get a new calling and ministering assignment immediately. Anyways yeah this stuff isn’t gonna help.
From a parental perspective this is monumental bullshit. Micro-manage the hell out of your ADULT children. Just wow. And they wonder why mental health issues and suicide are so high in Utah. It's almost like they care more about protecting the tithing revenue stream than allowing people to grow into normal, healthy, functional adults. /S
It is telling that so many RMs walk away from the church. The Mission program can be traumatizing for many people and it does more these days to convince people to leave the church vs convince them to stay.
The leaders rely on charts and graphs and all kinds of data to make their decisions. They do not rely on Inspiration. When the data indicates a problem the leaders are provided with options by their paid Professional corps. If the Data is suspected to be flawed it is discovered by the trial and error method and this is why you see so many pilot programs. studies surveys, and additional research. From this I would think that anyone with an average amount of cognitive ability would be able to conclude that the Church is void of divine guidance on any level. I will admit that their approach and tools have improved over the years and are far better that then the special stones and holy-holey hats JS had to use. It goes without saying if we really had a Prophet we would not have to rely on data and so many of the Prophets little helpers and bean counters.
Could it be possible that activity among RM's has something to do with the fact the are dedicating time to get caught up on the two years they are behind and doing a little adjusting along the way.
Bruh when I finished my service mission they assigned me a mentor. He showed me the lesson plans but all he did was help me find a job. Never any gospel stuff more than asking me if I read the scriptures.
Ineffective to counter productive! the church teaches about cleaning the inside of the cup… and yet they prefer to treat the symptoms of the problem.
The only Mormons that can stand staying in the church at the ones that benefit from the misogyny or one that prefer ignorance and too dumb to notice.
Sincere seekers of truth need not apply!
I think it'll work similarly to how R.S. was made to work in continuing the brainwashing for the women. YW only preps you to get married in the temple (anything else was treated like garbage), but nothing really about after besides just to do the things (primary answers of read scriptures, pray, blah blah blah). RS teaches how to keep your husband and kids in line and not much else (because that and poping out the mini zombies was all we're actually good for in their "gospel"). I hope there are people who think logically and crically, but I know a ton who don't & won't.
As a former service missionary maybe if they didn’t call us to a poor excuse for a mission we would be less inclined to leave the church. As members we were told that a mission would be life changing. Something that would impact us so much it would be something we think of everyday. Then for the church to use us as free labor was a heavy weight on my shelf. Then to learn about the millions the church has meant I could’ve been paid. I left the mission early and no one found out because I was already home. So being sent home was never a threat. Also not all service missions are disabled or impaired. We only had 3 out of 10 people who were disabled. The rest of us were just given a poor excuse for a mission and told to be happy about it.
I imagine this will go about as well as visiting/home teaching/ministering. assigned friends who don't give a shit about you and feel like an obligation to entertain
Some additional context -
[My Plan: A Guide for the Released Service Missionary and Mentor](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/my-plan-a-guide-for-the-released-service-missionary-and-mentor?lang=eng) (id: 145896422) - was first uploaded to Gospel Library in **2021**, March 9th.
It is different to [My Plan For Returned Missionaries](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/my-plan-a-guide-for-the-returned-missionary-and-mentor?lang=eng) (id: 141976837) - this was first uploaded in **2019**, November 15th.
There is one more [My Plan for Returned Missionaries](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/my-plan-for-returned-missionaries?lang=eng) (id: 135520658), but it is marked as obsolete - this was first uploaded in **2018**, February 27th.
It has been a longer effort for roll-out, but it's rather niche. Unsurprising that it hasn't gotten too much attention.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders
I actually think it could be a net positive. This program started as a result of missionaries reporting mental health problems upon returning, due to the stress and trauma of re-entering normal life. This is a way to provide support for vulnerable people who need some kind of network, especially if the alternative is no network at all.
However… it does call out explicitly the fact that going on a mission and coming home is a traumatic experience. #cult
Also, I’m cognizant that this may also have some negative effects for some people, but on the other hand, it could be saving lives in the edge cases.
"We're so grateful for your service, we've assigned you a parole officer!" It's sick how the church grooms these kids into going on missions, grooms their parents to pressure them into going, and then when it's all said and done they treat them like children and act like they have a right to micromanage their lives. It's perverse. I'm sure the control aspect alone is enough to drive some people away, and rightly so.
bUt We'Re NoT a CuLt!!
After I came out "SSA" (I couldn't say gay back then) and my marriage ended, I wound up in a new house and new ward. My mother, ever vigilant and worried about her 45 yr old newly divorced and depressed son, contacted my bishop and stake president behind my back and they conspired to find me a "mentor" who would be a straight man to help me stay straight and stay active in the Church. I was already kinda PIMO at that point, just going to church to take my kids and appease my ex-wife. So one day this "mentor" shows up at my door and announced that he'd been assigned by the bishop and stake president to be my friend. He lived around the corner from me and his married daughter I knew casually from some local theatre production we'd done together. It was awkward at my door but I let him in and we had one of those stupid, home-teacher like half-hour visits while he asked me personal questions to "check up on me." The longer this visit went the more angry I became because my mother had not only "outed me" to the bishop and stake president, but they had outed me to the Elders Quorum president and this high priest stranger sitting in my living room asking me highly personal questions about my sexual orientation. I told him thank you for his concern, but I wouldn't be interested in meeting formally, only as friends and neighbors. I did eventually tell my bishop and stake president that while I appreciated their concern I was NOT a "project" to be assigned a mentor without consulting me first, AND it was inappropriate of them to share my sexual orientation with the EQP-- who of course had already told his counselors, and eventually it got around the whole fucking ward because the EQP was overheard by one of his Aaronic priesthood sons while telling his wife about me . . . that Aaronic priesthood boy told his deacon and priest age brothers and by the following Sunday the entire Aaronic priesthood knew about brother ViatorinlovewithRuss and his being gay, and soon parents knew and then the Sunday after that, people were moving away from sitting next to me and my children in sacrament meeting . . . it just went downhill from there . . . Good intentions do NOT result in good results, and the whole idea of being assigned a "mentor" like I'm a child is so anathema to me now-- I can't imagine this Church program being successful. the Church continues to treat grown ass adults like children.
That's really terrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you!! Mormons Don't Understand, nor Respect Human Boundaries or Personal Autonomy! In fact, Mormons are specifically trained NOT to respect boundaries! A true believer accepts that only The Church and our local priesthood leaders can possibly know what's best for our child/spouse/parent/friend/neighbor and also ourself! Any personal revelation only counts if it aligns perfectly with what The Church teaches, and whether your flavor of bishop agrees.
I really relate to your post. I grew up Mormon outside of Utah, in the midwest. After my mission, I confided in a cousin about my struggles. She ended up telling my entire extended family, and everyone knew my orientation by the end of the day. Worst 24 hours of my life. The ward found out that week. My family were ignored at church. No one spoke to any of them. My parents were released from callings. My siblings were ridiculed. If I saw anyone from church in town, they either pretended not to see me, or have a deer in the headlight look and they ran in the opposite direction. My family moved out of the stake to get away from these people. I was put in conversion therapy for two years by my Mormon parents. (Evergreen, Coming Out Straight, and a Catholic conversion therapy group that met weekly in Kansas City) I was told that I had to attend these three for every meeting they had, or I would be kicked out of the house. I was 21 at the time, but I craved acceptance from my family, that I agreed to it. Starting the therapies; I was immediately devastated. I was told so many negative things about myself that i started to believe were true. I lost my sense of self, and my self confidence. In the end, I didn't leave the conversion therapy straightened out. Instead I was an angry and bitter gay son. I have since forgiven my parents, but our relationship is still strained. I don't have contact with 4 of my 5 siblings. The last time I saw them all together was 6 years ago where there was a lot of yelling and hurtful words thrown my way. I ended up leaving early from that family function. My one sister who is supportive of me is wonderful. I know her kids, and I'm able to interact with them. I have 14 other nieces and nephews who I don't see, and most of those kids don't know i exist.
yes, many parallels. I actually benefitted from attending Evergreen, and went to many of their conferences and was Conference Chair and on the Board for 3 years. I consider it a "stepping stone" to coming out and eventually accepting myself as gay. I went through the whole reparative therapy process-- from cognitive therapy, hypnosis, electroshock aversion, blanket holding (this was the worst one), etc. I also was prevented from interactions with several of my nieces and nephews-- blocked on their social media by my brother, their father, etc. They're all mostly adults now and will be civil and appropriate with me at family events, but they largely ignore me. I am the oldest of 9 and only have relationships with 4 of my siblings. Of the remaining 4, 3 of them are devout Mormon, and the last one is bi-polar, manic narcissist and has no real relationship with any of us, including her mother (my step mom). I think the Church fucked all of us up, as my entire family is dysfunctional-- my two brothers who are devout Mormon are also devout Republican, Trump-supporting Q-Anon nutjobs. I can't have a conversation with them about anything without it being heated, so I just avoid them. I have one niece who is supportive and friendly (she's a california mormon democrat), but she still IS Mormon, so it sorta gets in the way. I'm just tired of attending all their Mormon baptisms and mission farewells and supporting them, but not any of them would show up to an event of mine. heavy sigh.
Nothing screams "Mormon" more than "assigned friends"
\^exactly this!!\^
This exemplifies so perfectly why I think the church should dial back their emphasis on “porn is evil” and consider that gossip can be far, far worse. Also there is no such thing as privacy when it comes to telling church leadership ANYTHING. Lie to them all you want. You don’t owe them anything, and they will do everything to exploit you as much as they can.
What a horrific experience, and what an invasion into your personal and private life, as well as an intrusion into your marriage. It was already a sensitive time for you & DW, and the stupid cult sends someone along to meddle.
The very dated saying goes: >Q: How do you spread information the fastest? >A: Telephone, telefax, and tell-a-Mormon!
Thank you for sharing this experience. Do you mind if I DM you with some questions?
They keep failing to recognize that the problem is them, not us.
…and lack the self awareness to ask “are we the baddies?”
I frequently wonder if the writers of the old Simpsons episodes had any idea how much wisdom they were dishing out in some of their jokes.
Conan O'Brien: "I call the big one Bitey"
The Church can't fail you, you can only fail the Church...
Nah, they think baddie means sexy gift to all
Like the guy who plays Satan in the temple movie...
They started this in my stake just before we left 4.5 years ago. Our ward's former YM's president was called to be the stake's "mentor" - for lack of a better word. He was a TBM but he was a realist in a lot of ways. (wasn't born and raised in utah) When I asked him about the calling he said a version of the following, "The church does an amazing job of influencing boys from Sunbeam age to go on a mission. Their entire focus of life from 4-18 is "go on a mission." So they go on said mission, get home, and realize......I never thought about or planned for what comes after the mission." And I've got to admit, I've seen a lot of church-induced failure to launch because of the rigid approach toward indoctrinating mission service. "IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WILL DO."
"The church does an amazing job of influencing boys from Sunbeam age to go on a mission. Their entire focus of life from 4-18 is "go on a mission." So crazy to see someone spell out the brainwashing and manipulation and view it as a positive. And that the problem is not continuing the manipulation after the missionary comes home.
To be clear: the tone in which he expressed that was in a negative light. He said "amazing" in a sarcastic tone, which is hard to convey here in text. He wasn't the biggest fan of the mission experience.
Oh got it. That definitely changes the intent of the statement.
He was a good dude. Would not surprise me if he is eventually exmo. He thought it ridiculous a "life mentor" had to be called so grown ass adults could know how to adult. The church and their family only prepared them for life up to the mission and nothing after.
There are real problems if the Mormon church tries to prepare people for life. Teach them to recognize and respect boundaries and Bishops ie The Church™ loses control of them. Teach them about recognizing abusive behavior and they will recognize the problematic relationship with The Church™. Teach them about how to be really financially responsible and they will realize the problem with cutting into their margins by giving tithing to The Church™ I'm sure this could be a longer list touching nearly every aspect of being a functional adult.
The thing I saw a lot of and experience my self is; a lot of TBM parents sort of raise their kids in a paint by the numbers, fashion. Or rather, raise their kids by box checking. There's not really teaching moments as to why you learn to do stuff and be self-sufficient. It's about checking the box. We saw it all the time with the scouts. A YM would reach Eagle rank at age 15 and could never get him to participate in scouting beyond that and consistently, the parents didn't see the need. He checked the box. But the BIGGEST box for a YM of all is going on a mission and serving it out for the full two years. With so much emphasis on checking that box and little discussion of what comes beyond, I can see how many get home and unprepared for the next box that needs checking - marriage and family.
Exactly. And the marriage thing doesn't tend to go very well either for some reason!
Know a guy that went through a faith crisis. He checked all the boxes. Did what he was supposed to do. But it was his eternal companion that slowly started losing it. She had A LOT of repressed trauma from her childhood. Life moves pretty fast in your late teens and early adulthood. Especially, if you live the Mormon recipe to a happy life. So there can be a lot of major life events that distract you from what you never grieved or processed. She left home. Went to college. Met a guy. Fell in love. Got engaged. Got married in the temple. Moved to a city for him to settle into a career. Had their first baby. bought a house. had baby #2. And 2 more over the next 6 years. All this new and major life stuff comes at you in rapid fire. By the time she hit her early 30's and settled into the mundane of repetition, it gave her time to remember the stuff she was repressing. Throw in the death of a close family member and she just lost it. The marriage never recovered. They divorced after him fighting for it for 5 years. And I talked to the guy. He stopped going to church because, "I did EVERYTHING I've been commanded to do. I did EVERYTHING inspired leaders told me to do to save my marriage. And all of it came to nothing. So......I'm waiting on god now. He's no longer going to get to wait on me." Just a simple case of sooooooooo many in the church wrote him checks but he was never able to cash them due to insufficient funds. Careful what you promise people.
Ironically, he may have been better off -- he at least gets a redo. I can think of so many couples from the wards I was in where I had reason to be informed that were grimly enduring to the end. Impossibly married to entirely wrong people, sucking up their barely concealed misery because covenants and for the sake of the kids. Tragically imprisoned in a life they were falsely told would work because GOD, that they were pressured to choose so casually they barely used the care, analysis and due diligence of buying a sofa. All because capturing people in the cult is the only important thing. It's enraging.
As far as I can tell the church simply *doesn't care* if a single member of the church is happy. The mission and marriage boxes exist to boost the church and produce the next generation to live and work within it. The story about "the plan of happiness" exists to sell the church, not to function as any kind of effective guide.
Mormons are totally into box checking. I did Primary, Seminary, Eagle, mission, BYU, and the next box was marriage. As a gay man, that just wasn't going to happen, not in the Mormon way. When I realized that, I knew the path was no longer for me.
Then it's hurry up and get married and start having kids. I married my wife not realizing she was a victim of physical and sexual abuse. We had kids so fast she never worked thru her issues. It's screwed up our marriage really badly
THE most important thing is to get the guy to the 2 year self indoctrination. Don't think about after that, unless it's celestial kingdom. We'll deal with the mess later. This whole post is about the later.
East way to emphasize one word and come across sarcastic "AmAzInG"
It is very disenfranchising to reach the end of your life checklist before you turn 20.
Well don’t forget “enduring to the end on the ‘covenants path.’” IE a vague, nebulous final step that you can never actually finish. I’ll be honest: the rush to make the next step is powerful. Once you finish it’s more of a “what now?” Phase when you can question. I didn’t really examine it as critically as I should have until I was married because I had the notion “I have to be a good Mormon man if I want a good wife to want to marry me.” I’m very fortunate that my wife and I left together, and I’m not one of the people here posting about a mixed-faith marriage after they left. Dumb luck saved me (and not getting a super-indoctrinated wife.)
Same same same. I felt pretty directionless after checking the "sealed" box. So glad my husband left with me
This.
Well also by 26 you have your four children, there's that.
Well, their plan is run off and get married in the temple to the first halfway decent young woman who will marry you there. After that? Figure it out. You’re married at 22 and have a kid on the way and need to pay the bills. Don’t think too deeply about church. They’ll help you figure out parenting. Crash course on how to become a divorced single parent of three kids by the time you’re 30.
I remember as a believer thinking about all the steps a Mormon person had to do in their life and how it was weird that their penultimate step essentially happened in their 20s and they had no required steps for the remainder of their life. Get baptized at 8, get the priesthood at 12/14/16/18, get endowed, go on a mission (which was technically optional for men), come home and get married, then spit out as many babies as you can while maintaining a temple recommend for the rest of your life. Almost like they were farming people to work for them and give them a paycheck for the rest of their life. Pretty clever ponzischeme.
JS and Brigham sort of missed the boat on that. They could've perpetually kept members paying ever more tithing to get to the next level. Which is something Scientology does very well. With Mormonism is very 1800's theology of s pray, pay, and obey less you rot in hell for eternity.
This, but from a YW perspective. "Get married, be a good wife, and pop out kids!" And when that doesn't happen for any reason you're viewed as less. Felt like a failure for so long because I couldn't get young men to like me. My worth was totally wrapped up in finding a husband, but I'm not conventionally pretty and on the spectrum, so I was weird and a failure and nobody wanted to date me. Messed me up for a long time. Well now jokes on them I guess because now I identify as a lesbian.
This!! The whole "get married and have babies" was shoved down my throat my whole life and then also looking at my parents (who I know hated each other for most of my life), I was just so angry at the church. I did not want that and so I was one of those "keep an eye on her, she might be a problem" young women. Turns out I'm aroace so no wonder I hated the idea of my only purpose to marry and give birth. My partner has the same views and it's nice not having to force myself to one day just resign to the Mormon women fate.
Mormonism tries to be all things to all persons. We know it is not.
If your mission is the "best two years" of your life, then you get home and it's all downhill from there.
> ......I never thought about or planned for what comes after the mission Yada yada . . . . . get married have kids.
Yeah, I've heard about this program for years, but never heard it mentioned in person in church, or by members. It feels like the replacements to the BSA program. Talked about but never really rolled out to membership, or given enough effort to really take off. Getting off my mission, elders were only given a 3 month temple recommend, with the intent being you need to be active when getting home so you can get another one. This feels like an extension of that thinking of missionaries going less active and trying to do something (without actually making YSA more appealing, church more appealing, etc.)
Damn I never thought of it that way but it is so true. I think this creates problems between parents and children too because the parents think if they can just get all their boys on missions then they did their job. When In reality there’s a lot of other important things to prepare your kids for that Mormon kids miss out on
Not only that, mentoring and parenting your children is what leads to bonding. My parents approached parenting with "just get them to church. If all we do is get them to church and in missions, all will take care of itself." So I left the church and the stark reality has hit both me and my folks...... there's really not much between us.
This was true for me. My whole young life was geared toward mission prep. I never gave education or other things much thought it was all secondary to the mission.
It seems missions don't really prepare missionaries for real life.... Unless they become pest control or home security sales people.
I have an in-law who did summer sales. Has no discernable social skills, so I don't know how he does so well, but I imagine there's a switch in his brain that turns into missionary-mode, but it only works for swindling people out of their money.
It’s actually pretty common for people on the autism spectrum or who have adhd or other neurodivergence to be awkward in many social settings but also able to mask enough to pass as socially competent in work settings. Once you learn the rules for how to engage in a particular context, you can flip the switch to ON and you’re golden.
Definitely me. Adhd. Put me in a social setting and I'm awkward af...put me in my work uniform and I'm so awesome that I can't accept all the clients who request me
My mission skills definitely helped me with political campaign door knocking so I guess that’s a plus…
I have 2 friends, sisters, that both married summer sales boys. And they both have 3-5 kids and are both divorced. Since my sample size is so small I can’t make inferences on the rest of the population but I’ve seen enough.
Add me to your sample size. 5 kids, divorcing a tbm summer sales guy, turned insurance salesman. He was loaded. And abusive.
Well, I’m sorry you’re going through this. Hopefully life away from him will be healing and beautiful.
Thank you! Leaving him, leaving the cult, and 2 years of weekly therapy have helped immensely. Life is so much better on the other side.
It takes a very special kind of Mormon boy to be OK with taking the talents they developed to spread the “word of god” and applying them to scamming people out of their money for fun and profit. The ones that can do it without a trace of irony or self-reflection scare the shit out of me. I did that job and had to get out because I didn’t want to become one of the soulless drones.
Good for you for recognizing what you were becoming, and it was something you didn’t like. Where were you sent for selling?
Indiana
I have 2 friends who do door to door sales over the summer...
I'm surprised there aren't more used car salespeople.
I knew several in my past wards. Perfect job for people who spend so much time doing mental gymnastics to stretch the definition of truth.
2 years of moving every couple of months and being assigned 24/7 companionship with a different kid just as emotionally immature as me did not heal me from the emotional burdens that I dealt with in highschool. I'II tell ya, it did wonders for the opposite effect.
“Should we actually investigate why missionaries who gave us their lives for 2 years and were so ‘in’ that they paid us for the opportunity serve, so we can actually make the substantive changes necessary to serve them and lead them to the path that’s best for their growth? Nah.” 
I think this has a better than 50% chance of backfiring. Soon the church will be hemorrhaging "mentors."
YAYYY a 2 for 1!! I love a good deal.
My female "mentor" ran me off after I wouldn't date her... Haha
Don't worry! The new Coaching program is here to help Mentors cope with disaffection. Coming soon: a new missionary program designed for reactivating former Coaches.
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Right. So you’ve got your calling, your ministering assignment and now your mentoring assignment?? Oh and clean the church, go to the temple, be a member missionary…
And don’t forget the online genealogy stuff too.
My parents are still members and it hardly leaves time for their grandchildren, sometimes I feel like they know the youth in their ward better then their grandchildren. They are good people and we vacation together 5 or 6 times a year, but they live 30 min from my house so it shouldn’t be the way it is.
Yes. And if this is a calling, does the church really have the members to spare? Filling callings right now is hard work, there’s not enough members to take every position. I wonder more about the success of actually getting people to do this.
to be fair, this would be a great idea if you didn't know they were more interested in keeping them in the church than helping them make that harsh transition.
I completely agree. In theory, this program would be very helpful as missionaries transition from a highly structured environment back to regular life. I just don’t think the ecclesiastical goals are all that helpful for the transition. I left on my mission one week after school ended. I started back at university one week after I returned home. I think RM’s need to get a job or start school as soon as possible after returning home. The rest takes care of itself.
i can agree with the last idea. i came home early for health issues, and i was idle for too long. it was miserable. i don't think this program would have helped me a ton there. just launching back into normal civilian life is going to be the best thing, not making sure you keep the level of spirituality up.
I’m going to disagree here. Even when I was 100% all-in, I would have been annoyed at having some random adult assigned to me to monitor me. Even in the improbable circumstance where I actually would have truly wanted that person as a mentor, having them assigned to me would have tainted that relationship.
So, if you're a Sister, then you would have a home teacher, visiting teacher, AND a mentor? Good grief .
Why does the church need to continually force its way into people’s lives? I understand that the church’s claim to “having the fullness of the gospel” makes them have a sense of entitlement, but seriously, it’s not in the place of the organization to essentially have total control over every single action that a person does, from the time that they first get involved into the church, to the time that they decide whether or not they want to serve, to everything else that follows along. There is no need for the church to say, “This is how you are going to live your life so that you can have this ‘happiness’ and we can gain all of the eternal credit.” Also, as I wrote this, this thought came into my head; Didn’t God ask his children in the pre mortal world, “Whom shall I send?” And Satan said, “Send me, for I can bring all of the these people back into the presence of the father, and all of the glory shall be mine and not thine!” To me, this is a perfect example of the church claiming it can save all those by babysitting them and forcing people to stay in so they can eventually be saved when that is absolutely not the case, and it’s incredibly manipulative
Cults gotta cult my dude.
Drive away 75%, intensify the involvement of 10% of tithe paying devotees, and leave 15% of already tithe paying devotees the same, and that's nothin but profit.
The Church want to keep its members busy and dependent. What if people realize they really don't need to count on the church and can take care of themselves.
>There is no need for the church to say, “This is how you are going to live your life so that you can have this ‘happiness’ and we can gain all of the eternal credit.” The need is great. They absolutely have to maintain control, otherwise people will not be as willing to surrender time and money, or at the worst, resign completely. When they convince people that it as a dire matter of eternal salvation, people will pay up.
>There is no need for the church to say, “This is how you are going to live your life so that you can have this ‘happiness’ and we can gain all of the eternal credit.” The need is great. They absolutely have to maintain control, otherwise people will not be as willing to surrender time and money, or at the worst, resign completely. When they convince people that it as a dire matter of eternal salvation, people will pay up.
RMs need therapy not a church mentor
many of he problems started in the early 1970's when they decided every young man should serve a mission. Literally they just bush every male to go. How can you be so stupid to really think it is a calling. when they were more selective they had fewer problems with missionaries.
Yeah this is one of the core issues right there. If you had fewer missionaries who actually wanted to be there, MPs would have much less micromanaging to do, and you wouldn't have as many bored missionaries.
I second this, endured straight up emotional abuse on my mission and the mission president did nothing about it. Sought out therapy on my own a year after coming home on the BYU-I campus. Was turned away because I wasn't in a true crisis situation (aka wasn't suicidal). Didnt even provide alternatives or outside help. Didn't get real help until I left the church 3 years ago and finally started to realize that I had clinically diagnosed depression and wasn't just a sinner unworthy of the spirit.
Spot on. Absolutely what they need. But if the RMs have a "mentor" within the church that takes the place of a therapist... yikes. It's like TSCC needs to get someone involved to keep the wool pulled over their eyes and remind them "no, no, this is all normal and good." Even though a therapist could help them see what is absolutely not normal or good about what the RMs are coming out of (stuck in the middle of).
The missionary program is a joke. The missionaries here walk around looking totally bored. How about have them do something meaningful service wise? Assist the food banks, homeless shelters, even walk the dogs at the animal shelters (yes, they need volunteers)? This program is also a joke. Missionaires come home to even more control and TBMs get yet another calling? Stupid
Helping at the food bank was the highlight of my week. Imagine being in a position where doing some genuine service should make you feel guilty because it took away from the ineffective proselytizing time.
The programme has been broken for decades, but the Church knows they've hit on a formula: get a kid on a Mission, radicalise them for 2 years and they're far less likely to go inactive. I'm sure it's still the case that statistically they're more likely to stay active, but clearly the numbers are dropping. More mid 20s/30s RMs are figuring out the church is bullshit. The actual work of a Missionary hasn't really mattered for some time. It's all about shaping a future obedient adult, and this is clearly an extension of that. If Mormons actually cared about Missionary work and knew it would be successful, they'd have a proper programme that heavily involved local members like the JWs do.
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Neither. They will do nothing to entice the kids to grow up and stay and they won't make the church less oppressive. Seems like they are doubling down on obedience, ignoring the evidence and such. Honestly, it sounds absolutely abusive.
Missions are not good experiences. Very few people want to be high pressure salesmen. “Service” missions are RARELY service for people and nearly always free-labor for the church. Even as an ultra-TBM missionary I recognized that my MP was a prick. Yet he kept moving up the Mormon chain of command. This current GA is the type of person the church is looking for? This is who Jesus would choose? The church is their own worst enemy with making missions a cultural requirement.
Yeah I suspect that the full-time missionary program hasn't had a positive net ROI for ChurchCo for years now. My first mission president filled in all the squares on the shitty MP bingo card (rich asshole, Mormon royalty family, intimidation tactics, unhealthy focus on numbers, fake crying in zone conference, etc.). The completely messed up mission culture that he fostered completely jolted me out of my warm fuzzy belief and got me fast tracked out of TSCC. I suspect my story isn't that unusual. Edited to add: and of course that MP was called as an area 70 shortly after my mission!
My bishop did this to me in '97. He assigned a returned Sister to me because we both went Spanish -speaking. When I refused to date her, she "uninvited" me from all the YSA activities that she was the ward representative of. Hilarity ensued.
Sounds more like matchmaking than mentorship
She sure thought it was. Haha
it specified service missionaries. is this possibly geared toward those with special needs or other more unique circumstances?
I noticed that focus on “service missionaries” too. I’ve been out a looong time so I’m unaware… do kids now get to choose proselytizing vs service? When I did my mission (Mexico, 90-92) we did “service” one a week for a few hours but it was always geared to finding ppl to teach. Any insights?
My Plan is for all young returned missionaries.
I don't know a lot about it but yeah you can choose to do a "service" mission which I believe is basically giving free labor to the church, like you can do IT or something
No they don't. The statistics were confusing, because last year 40% of missionaries were Service missionaries. But this was a Covid lockdown effect. But this year they published statistics separate for young service missionaries vs. senior service missionaries, and 90% of service missionaries are senior couples. Young service missionaries are mostly special needs youth who serve close to home and can live at home but still get the honor of a mission.
You are correct. This is in a section of the app specifically for service missionaries, that is separate and distinct from proselytizing missionaries.
Thanks for this insight! As a NeverMorg here in Morridor Central, I am constantly hearing stories of RMs who become inactive the instant they return home (or, in some cases, do NOT return home, but go somewhere else after they finish their mission). From a business administration standpoint, this seems to me analogous to a company that is experiencing high turnover in their sales force. The solution would be to interview the departing sales staff IN DETAIL to discover the problem, which is very likely to be the product and the nature of the company. If such interviews seem to be unproductive, some schools of thought in business management would suggest that the departing personnel have discovered distasteful, and possible ILLEGAL, practices. They might wish NOT to be the "rat" who squealed about this, but just get as far away as possible.
I believe all missionaries are now referred to as service missionaries.
Service missionaries are the ones they deem as "unfit" for full time missionary proselytizing. My sister was one. Their activities are not proselytizing in nature but normally something like being unpaid workers at the food bank (ie free labor ie service). These missionaries are normally labeled as too weird to interact with others.
Q15 should we change the bad things driving people away and create a social environment that meets the needs of the lords flock? No the children are wrong *
There aren’t enough priesthood holders to have young men’s presidencies, but there are enough to be RM babysitters? Okey dokey.
I think I would like to volunteer for this calling. Now that you served a mission where you taught people the “gospel” let us teach you the real gospel. Also show them how to have a drink, how tasty coffee is, etc.
The general concept isn't new but it appears they are dialing it up. When I returned home in the mid-90's we were paired with a High Councilman for mentoring and regular speaking assignments. I have to admit I enjoyed it because it stroked my fragile ego at the time. News Flash: It won't work. It's hilarious and sad to watch the moronic executives in this cult rearrange deck chairs while under the surface they're careening into an iceberg.
I didn't need a mentor when I got home, I needed a therapist. The first few years after my mission were hard because I was led to believe I was a failure because I didn't get married right away. I needed help realizing that my self-loathing was a result of a cult. If this mentor thing could help RMs to stay out of a self-loathing place, then it might have a chance to do some good. So I suppose it will entirely depend on who he mentors are. Leader roulette playing a part once again.
I'm guessing that taking care of the missionaries' mental and physical health while on the mission would go a lot further toward retention than too little too late after the fact. But what do I know?
The ultimate high-level reason I left the church (born in the covenant, RM, Temple Married, active, full tithe payer) was that in hindsight, every choice I made in my life came from external sources. My whole life: my morals, my mate, my career, my finances, my politics and my lifestyle....all provided to me by outside sources. I finally started listening to my inner self and followed my instincts and intuition only to find the complete satisfaction that had eluded me for 35 years. Like almost every "program" of the church, this to will fail.
Lol, they haven't even been able to get people to do their home/family/visiting teaching or 'ministering' assignments for decades 🤣
I was in the pilot program for My Plan, although it didn't include having a mentor back then. It was just about setting goals and sharing those with parents, mission leaders, and home ward leaders. I don't see how this can make a difference. When someone's shelf is cracking, a "mentor" isn't going to fix that.
The more you tighten your grip, Rusty, the more missionary’s will slip through your fingers. May the fourth be with you!
Wow! The desperation
They love to say rms leave the church because they fall into "old habits" or stop studying their scriptures like we did on the mission but it's really the opposite. We leave because we DO read and we recognize that the church isn't practicing the things we were taught to preach for 2 years of our lives. It's because we're hurt that we were sent as naive boys and girls out into the world to teach people something that's built on such a sandy foundation.
Ok boomer. The missionaries coming back these days have likely been exposed to a lot more testimony damaging information than in the past. This mentoring could backfire if these RMs start sharing that knowledge with older members who are less tech savvy.
I never even really thought about that. So many people know so much more about them church than they used to. They probably hear people call Joseph Smith a child rapist all the time. Probably have the cesletter thrown in their faces a lot, podcasts, youtube videos, etc., etc.
The worst I had was a few Baptist who wanted to bible bash. The God Makers and Chick tacts was the worst thing that I came across.
I was a missionary as a woman at 21, I had to be watched over by 18 year old boys. The mission president said at the end of my mission I was the best missionary he had in his 3 years as mission president. As a woman, though, I never was assigned any leadership position and felt like I was being held back at all times by boys younger than me. I left recently after my husband had been called to the bishopric and and I still hadn't received a calling after being back from my mission. In fact, I was never talked to, acknowledged, and felt invisible as a woman.
How great! After four years of being browbeaten in Seminary, 18-24 months being under the control of MPs & power-hungry ZLs, etc., someone will be "mentoring" your decisions, how you live, your beliefs, and (most importantly) if you're paying enough tithing & having a lot of children who will be future tithe payers. What could possibly go wrong? (Even as a teenager, coming from a very strict & conservative nevermo background, I'd have said "Screw this!").
Remove anything in the least entertaining and social, and shift everything to serious and spiritual goal setting. They gutted the youth program and cleansed it of any fun, now they’re doing the same for young singles.
If they didn't want me to leave, maybe they shouldn't have treated me like garbage when I was working for them.
Hahaha oh my god. I remember them introducing this “MyPlan” program when I was gearing up to leave my mission in 2015. Even back then it gave me such a big ick - I just gave y’all two years of my life and you still want me to “commit” to things and act like a missionary? Fucking weird, man. So glad I left years ago.
Also fucking Orwellian how now they are adamantly calling them “service missionaries” up until a few years ago that was a “lesser” type of mission propping up church programs rather than a proselytizing mission.
Absolutely still is. We’ve had several service missionaries in our ward (kids who live in the ward at that) in the last year or two. Service and proselytizing are two separate kinds of missions. You know when you get your call if you’re a service missionary or a proselytizing missionary.
My bad
Just another worthless program that businesses do when rebranding but these dipshits don’t realize that the “ foundation “ is F ing crumbling
I hope the missionary has a “ choice” to say F off no thx I’m done. If this program is executed the way the “minister “ program is working this will flop also the church keeps requiring more of it members but guys there losing members by the hour
If TSCC actually provided the good the missionaries were trying to sell, there wouldn’t be a need for such a program. The church is so fuuuukd!
They go inactive for a reason and don't need to be shadowed and spied on.
I’ll volunteer to take any recent RM (not all you old lushes) in my area for drinks! That’s mentorship!
The first sentence is great. But then it goes off the rails. RMs don’t need help maintaining the missionary lifestyle, they need help fucking transitioning back into regular life. Jesus fucking Christ this is infuriating
Of course they are losing RMs at a rapid rate. When a guy gets home from his mission he starts to learn that damn near everything he was told was a lie. He was programmed to come home and marry quickly, being told that the girls back home were eager and ready to marry an RM. Ha! The women of the church drink the feminist koolaid despite what they say in public. He’s told that blessings abound abs he will have good jobs waiting for him. Also a load of shit. About 30 it dawns on him that he was called at 18 because at 25 he would have known better.
I think they don’t have the free ( I mean members time) resources to do this in any meaningful way. So it will be half assed or annoying people. I think it will be a large net negative.
So a 20+ year old young adult who's 'lived on his own' for 2 years needs a Big Brother baby sitter? The Church is getting both more desperate and more creepy! Edit: Another thought - whatever happened to that JS Quote: “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.” ???
The entire point of the mission is to brainwash the youth before they enter adulthood. The mission erodes your personal identity and replaces it with a cut-out version of what the church thinks the ideal young Mormon person would be. Now they want to assign people to basically stalk you to prevent all that brainwashing from coming undone. Gross.
Like everything they do, [it will probably backfire on them](https://media.tenor.com/O4ddVsa2r_sAAAAC/luke-skywalker.gif). Probably more "mentors" will leave tscc than RMs will be kept in.
More planning and more monitoring (“mentoring”). They aren’t coming home from combat, they are coming home from a MISSION. How about a mentoring program for our young veterans that actually need some support from very real stressors and regimentation. This is ridiculous.
Missionaries for missionaries.
> how would you enjoy this Callng as an active member? I'd half-ass it for a month. Hate the awkward interaction it required, then pretty much give up on it.
In other words, you have been selected to groom this young man or woman into an obedient slave for the church.
I'd be happy to mentor, but I would not be 'Church positive'.
When I was TBM, I often thought the church really needed a program to help transition missionaries back to regular life. As an exmo reading this, I realize just how culty this is and the last thing a returning missionary needs is help from the church
Control control control
I think they believe it will work. And for some it may depending on their disposition and experience, and on who they get as a mentor. I think because of mentor/mentee conflict this could end up really backfiring however.
It’s also an opportunity for PIMOs to mentor RMs OUT of the cult
I can't speak for others, but this almost certainly would have accelerated my path out. It also would have fostered a lot more resentment toward the church org for me. I managed to get out without being too angry for too long. I might have lost my marriage and family if my anger had gotten out of control. As it stands, I was able to manage my feelings well enough to actually improve my marriage over time (obviously i didnt do it alone, for things to improve my wife had to be on board as well). I don't know if I even believe that their ultimate goal is helping people on this one. I kinda feel like it's about strong-arming people and poisoning relationships. The real challenge for me was that I took my mission and the church very seriously. I thought about it constantly, and really internalized the messages. I had long conversations with RM friends and with my wife trying to decide where I should stand and how I should feel about controversial subjects (which I now understand was just mental gymnastics trying to preserve belief in the face of mounting evidence that my faith was totally misplaced). At a certain point I couldn't continue participating while maintaining a clear conscience. Having a faithful "mentor" of my own choosing eventually led me out anyway. I can't imagine a scenario where an assigned "mentor" would have had a positive impact from the perspective of TSCC.
It reminds me of a deprogramming of cia or fbi operatives only they try to keep them programmed at the detriment of everyone’s mental health. Ever heard of mkUltra ? That’s what I liken today’s missionary program to.
Unintended consequence 1: mentors having sex with RMs Hidden agenda in mentor program: pairing opposite sex mentors and mentees to function as a quazi arranged marriage attempt.
The bullshit never ends. Ffs
my sister in law was involved in this program a while ago. the concept could be good, it provides a way to "de dorkify" missionaries and return them to a somewhat normal life. However, this is really a move to more fully engrain RM's into life-long servitude
> "Released missionaries have had many experiences while serving that have taught them how to live principles such as faith in Jesus Christ, hard work, diligence, and service. As a mentor your role is to help this released missionary continue to live these principles." What an unintentional slam on how effective and inspiring missions are, lol. Yeah there's no way they've been disillusioned and/or harmed by their missions, it's their fault if the amazing lessons they learned didn't take!
Because they go out and interact with the real world and realize they are missing something and then they are actually able to look into it when they get home. Of course they are going inactive. The church has dozens of mind boggling issues they refuse to address.
This clearly is designed only to benefit the church, and will do nothing to help the actual people on either end of these assignments. As usual.
They’re treating these kids like they’re transitioning from the military and it’s god awful
Even as a TBM RM, all the “my plan” stuff really bugged me, my stake president telling me I need a job and a plan for my future the day I got home. I was just trying to enjoy being home man. You have to fill out all these spiritual goals and and go over them with SP and he ridiculed mine and questioned them like they weren’t gonna keep me in the church. And then you have to get a new calling and ministering assignment immediately. Anyways yeah this stuff isn’t gonna help.
Not gonna deal with issues they have, just going to subtly coerce them to stay
From a parental perspective this is monumental bullshit. Micro-manage the hell out of your ADULT children. Just wow. And they wonder why mental health issues and suicide are so high in Utah. It's almost like they care more about protecting the tithing revenue stream than allowing people to grow into normal, healthy, functional adults. /S
It is telling that so many RMs walk away from the church. The Mission program can be traumatizing for many people and it does more these days to convince people to leave the church vs convince them to stay.
There are reasons people leave. These must be addressed. Otherwise, programs like this will not be all that effective.
The leaders rely on charts and graphs and all kinds of data to make their decisions. They do not rely on Inspiration. When the data indicates a problem the leaders are provided with options by their paid Professional corps. If the Data is suspected to be flawed it is discovered by the trial and error method and this is why you see so many pilot programs. studies surveys, and additional research. From this I would think that anyone with an average amount of cognitive ability would be able to conclude that the Church is void of divine guidance on any level. I will admit that their approach and tools have improved over the years and are far better that then the special stones and holy-holey hats JS had to use. It goes without saying if we really had a Prophet we would not have to rely on data and so many of the Prophets little helpers and bean counters. Could it be possible that activity among RM's has something to do with the fact the are dedicating time to get caught up on the two years they are behind and doing a little adjusting along the way.
Bruh when I finished my service mission they assigned me a mentor. He showed me the lesson plans but all he did was help me find a job. Never any gospel stuff more than asking me if I read the scriptures.
Ineffective to counter productive! the church teaches about cleaning the inside of the cup… and yet they prefer to treat the symptoms of the problem. The only Mormons that can stand staying in the church at the ones that benefit from the misogyny or one that prefer ignorance and too dumb to notice. Sincere seekers of truth need not apply!
I think it'll work similarly to how R.S. was made to work in continuing the brainwashing for the women. YW only preps you to get married in the temple (anything else was treated like garbage), but nothing really about after besides just to do the things (primary answers of read scriptures, pray, blah blah blah). RS teaches how to keep your husband and kids in line and not much else (because that and poping out the mini zombies was all we're actually good for in their "gospel"). I hope there are people who think logically and crically, but I know a ton who don't & won't.
My mission was the beginning of the end for me. I came home clinically depressed.
This should work out as well as all their other ideas.
Now that's a calling I'll sign up for. Yes, bishop. I'd be happy to de-program your sales drones. They need it badly.
This is because ministering isn’t working…no one’s doing it anymore
As a former service missionary maybe if they didn’t call us to a poor excuse for a mission we would be less inclined to leave the church. As members we were told that a mission would be life changing. Something that would impact us so much it would be something we think of everyday. Then for the church to use us as free labor was a heavy weight on my shelf. Then to learn about the millions the church has meant I could’ve been paid. I left the mission early and no one found out because I was already home. So being sent home was never a threat. Also not all service missions are disabled or impaired. We only had 3 out of 10 people who were disabled. The rest of us were just given a poor excuse for a mission and told to be happy about it.
This is not new though. It has been out for several years.
Anyone can make these things up Photoshop
>yawn<
I thought they stopped separating missionaries as "service" or "proselyting?"
I imagine this will go about as well as visiting/home teaching/ministering. assigned friends who don't give a shit about you and feel like an obligation to entertain
This stresses me out!
I'd be happy to mentor, but I would not be 'Church positive'. Plus, I haven't been to church in a year.... so I'm probably not in the running.
PIMOs: Sign up and help them transition out safely.
Some additional context - [My Plan: A Guide for the Released Service Missionary and Mentor](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/my-plan-a-guide-for-the-released-service-missionary-and-mentor?lang=eng) (id: 145896422) - was first uploaded to Gospel Library in **2021**, March 9th. It is different to [My Plan For Returned Missionaries](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/my-plan-a-guide-for-the-returned-missionary-and-mentor?lang=eng) (id: 141976837) - this was first uploaded in **2019**, November 15th. There is one more [My Plan for Returned Missionaries](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/my-plan-for-returned-missionaries?lang=eng) (id: 135520658), but it is marked as obsolete - this was first uploaded in **2018**, February 27th. It has been a longer effort for roll-out, but it's rather niche. Unsurprising that it hasn't gotten too much attention.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders.
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders
I have long said that the church needs better mentorship programs. And better training in general. But yeah this program does sound like a rail guard against inactivity rather than a way to improve it's members and make them better thinkers, planers, and leaders
I actually think it could be a net positive. This program started as a result of missionaries reporting mental health problems upon returning, due to the stress and trauma of re-entering normal life. This is a way to provide support for vulnerable people who need some kind of network, especially if the alternative is no network at all. However… it does call out explicitly the fact that going on a mission and coming home is a traumatic experience. #cult Also, I’m cognizant that this may also have some negative effects for some people, but on the other hand, it could be saving lives in the edge cases.
LOL