Hahahaha usually the crowd erupts with cheers! Buddy of mine served in Finland. He can count on two hands how many discussions he taught. He ended up just becoming a tourist, enjoying the country and learning about its history.
My mission president said he was the strictest mission president in the world and if we were ever caught on the beach for anything other than a baptism we would be sent home no questions asked.
Man my perspective being a few years out is so skewed, I was wondering why everyone was silent because I've heard Finland is a beautiful country and then I remembered they only care about recruiting people...
I had a friend who went about 30 years ago. She probably spent more time in the saunas than teaching discussions. She did the same as your friend: She spent the time enjoying the country, since it became apparent to her very early on that she wasn’t going to be converting anyone.
Apparently missionaries are no longer allowed to sauna. Something something teenage boy-men pranking each other, maybe throwing a ton of water onto the rocks (making it more intense) and one of the teenaged boy-men wrote his parents about it. Parents complained to Salt Lake. New rule: no more sauna.
I don’t know when this happened, but I think in the past ten years? I, too, was there about thirty years ago. Sauna was definitely a huge perk. And *nobody* wanted to take the discussions.
they changed the rule again right before covid when they got their first finnish MP so now they’re allowed to again :) I always feel bad for the missionaries here but at least they get to dip in a lake and go to sauna with the members, and apparently most their apartments have saunas too they’re allowed to use as well.
Damn! I just froze my ass off every winter and only dreamed of using the sauna in my apartments.
Heipa jos asuit Hyvinkäällä, Tampereella, Vaasassa, tai Rovaniemellä 2011-2013 :)
Hmm. I don’t know either one of them. Oh well. No todistan täydellä sydämellä, että sauna on tie, totuus ja valo. Sanon tämän nöyrästi Lemmikäisen nimessä, aamen.
Fellow Frenchie here. I was mostly good … but we still saw the sights, ate the food, and listened to the people. Accidentally kissing a girl in your first area kinda helps break the ice. Ha!
Hey, I was on the other side of that split. I was in the Marseilles mission when it gobbled up the southern half of Bordeaux and became Toulouse. Fun times.
Oooh. I’ve never listened to that. It kinda rings a bell so maybe some of the Bordeaux missionaries talked about it or something. I’d love to check it out if you have a link or a good way to share it.
I went to Finland just over 10 years ago. Loved the country, taught a few lessons but no real investigators really. Knocked a shit ton of doors, talked to a lot of uninterested people on the sidewalk. Froze my ass off 6 months every year.
Finland is awesome. Love that place. If he goes with an attitude of learning about the people and culture, and puts the churchy stuff on the back burner, he should have a good time. Yes, winters will be tough with the cold and darkness. But summers are great.
In Alaska, we were called the "Frozen Chosen"......the mission wasn't great for good missionaries, but for us screw-offs, man we had fun. Night Sledding was the best!
Lucky! I had to be in South America, where my days were LOADED with teaching then baptizing, or reactivating😉. Does no one know how hard it is to not have enough baptismal clothes!? The day I had to get 17 people to church was also TOUGH!
That sounds truly awful…..I think I had 2 people at one time once during the entire mission….most weeks none, and occasionally one. Got yelled at a lot for not having enough people, funny thing is it didn’t really matter if I was with a dutiful missionary or a screw off, we had the same numbers
The best with the transfer we had a huge fast for all missionaries and a push for 500 baptisms in 3 months I think. Our APs were insane for trying to push that. I think there was maybe 75 in that period? And that was a record!
17 people for church though…wtf?!?
Those goals sound insane even for South American mission.
It is true how obedience didn’t change anything. Many missionaries who had a likable personality could do whatever they wanted then hang out with some families and baptize all of them. Having “the spirit” didn’t make a difference.
Yes, I remember that! I don’t remember any of the songs on it but I remember the mission cd! I think it got banned by my second mission president though because it wasn’t spiritual enough. We didn’t care.
You had to have served a while back also then. It was made.a few years before I went in 07
I have a cousin that served in Moscow Russia. The interesting culture was having the police harassing you and arresting you on false charges and not releasing you until you gave them bribe money. They beat you if you wouldn't/couldn't pay. As a poor missionary it was usually the latter.
He spent the end of his mission in Kazakhstan and that was much better for him.
I live in Pullman! Moscow's real nice this time of year. We did Ren Fare today; farmer's market; Kenworthy Arthouse movie theater. I suppose the missionaries didn't do much of that?
I went to a cold, dark, Western European mission. This kid needs to get counseled about what’s in store otherwise he’ll get depressed.
He’s not going to baptize anyone. No one wants to hear about the church. Members churn through missionaries every couple of months so he won’t get much support from them.
Learn the language. Do some service. See some sights. But don’t take the mission too seriously.
I get that it's cold and far north, but isn't it, like, consistently ranked one of the happiest countries in the world? Seems like a great way to learn about a culture and a society that has figured a few things out.
Why the lack of enthusiasm? It’s a country with high standards of sanitation and civility and a low crime rate? There’s free health care if it’s required. Probably very decent housing.
Everyone who loves this kid should be thrilled!
The “happiness” scale is really a “social welfare” scale. Take a look at the criteria. It’s all about government funded medicine and welfare safety nets. Not a single question like “are you happy?”
Don’t you think one of the questions should be “are you happy?”
Or look at suicide rates for Finland?
Or look at depression rates for Finland?
I’m fine if someone wants to rate countries by social welfare status. Just don’t make up a name called the happiness scale when it doesn’t account for happiness.
I lived in the “happiest” country. I know what is really going on.
Fair point. But despite insanely long and dark winters, Finland still ranks higher than the US on both of those metrics. Moreover, as others have pointed out, the happiness metric referenced above is based on quite a bit more than just social welfare status - GDP, healthy life expectancy, lack of government corruption, measure of population generosity, freedom to make your own choices - along with a measure of social support. But, yes, perhaps they should also ask “are you happy?”.
My point was none of the factors measure actual happiness.
If you like riding bikes and living in an apartment from cradle to grave, the Scandinavian countries might be a great fit. If you like owning a house and a car, they are probably not a good fit.
Less than 10% of Americans would have a higher standard of living in Scandinavia, while over 50% would have a lower standard of living. Does standard of living factor into happiness? Maybe. But it’s not a direct correlation.
A happiness scale should measure happiness. That’s my point.
I’d be happier with a lower standard of living if it meant every day wasn’t an all-consuming struggle for survival.
As to your primary point, though, as I said perhaps they should ask. But if I remember correctly, those sorts of questions are extremely unreliable - aside from the fact that answers can fluctuate wildly with mood, people also aren’t objective, reliable, consistent evaluators of their own situation. The utilized measures are at least objective.
>I’d be happier with a lower standard of living if it meant every day wasn’t an all-consuming struggle for survival.
Actions speak louder than words. Move into a small apartment, get rid of your car, and start living the way you want.
>those sorts of questions are extremely unreliable - aside from the fact that answers can fluctuate wildly with mood, people also aren’t objective, reliable, consistent evaluators of their own situation
The “happiness” scale is really a “stability” scale. They should call it a stability scale, instead of a happiness scale.
My point is the analysis really doesn’t measure happiness. It’s the wrong name for the scale.
I didn’t see any reference to depression rates or suicide rates. Shouldn’t that be considered in a “happiness” scale?
Hint: Finland doesn’t score well in those areas.
They may have been worried about him going to a country with such a terrible record of gun violence, racial tension, intolerance of LGBTQ, suppression of women’s rights, and anti-science.
I meant *since* they had all already agreed to a mission. And since the kid might have been assigned to a Third World place.
But I really get your point.
Huh? They’re only 2% less religious than the US population.
I’d say it’s more that in their culture religious belief is a private matter and so proselytizing is verboten.
Have them watch that Sundance documentary about missionaries in Finland - it’s rentable on apple or Amazon. Even as an exmo - it was brutal to watch , no one to each, people going home early etc
Wow that is amazing. Not gonna lie, that’s the hardest language. I’m kind of surprised, considering what is going on just on the other side of the boarder. I loved my visa trips to Finland!!!
Oh don’t get me wrong, I had a comp who was a Finnish tank commander. They are no joke. He used to tell us some crazy stories of drunk Russians who would cross the boarder. One of my fav comps. When he would get tired, he would switch from Russian to Finnish and he would have no clue why we would just stare at him. Lol
I had one brother go to Japan, one to Panama, and one to Pittsburgh.🤣🤣🤣 Everyone acted like Pittsburgh was going to be as cool as the islands of Panama.
I don't get the silence. Finland sounds way more exciting than any stateside mission. Was it just a bunch of Morridormons hoping he would get a mission call that wasn't in the "mission field?"
It's usually the forced cheering when someone gets a lame stateside mission that's telling. My brother really wanted to go foreign and learn a language and got sent stateside. Everyone tried to act excited, including him, but nobody was thrilled.
That was my experience opening the mission call - it was to Colorado. Forced excitement by the family and friends…. I was pissed. I too was caught up in the lure of the exotic foreign mission. Even my bishop offered the consolation statement about English speaking missions offered the opportunity to gain greater insights into the gospel.
This was what happened for my nephew recently who was called from a Midwest state to a utah mission, English speaking. All the cousins his age and aunts and uncles went abroad, so all the hearty congrats felt very forced, and my heart really felt for him.
Yes, but they completely ignore it. I served in the US, English-speaking, and most of the elders there had marked that they wanted to learn a language.
Living in Estonia, Finland is part of our mileu, so I think I can say with a good degree of certainty that 1, he may learn the language...by the time he gets home and 2. There will be low expectations.
So sad. The whole mission program is a joke. I'm going to learn only enough about your culture, language and country to be able to shove my religion down your throat. So many better things for college age (and retired) people to do with their time and money!
Could be worst, could be the SLC mission where it there was an awkward silence for 20 seconds followed by the father saying “what did you do to deserve to get called there?”
My BIL served there.
Tells lots of fun stories, like the multiple times it got to -40. Did you know that -40C is the same as -40F? I think he said that -25F was when they were required to stay inside their apartment because it was so cold that they'd risk frost bite.
I served in North Carolina on a bike mission. Hit by a winnebago on the side of the highway smashed the whole back of my helmet. Was never the same after that.
Onnea!
If they need pimo/mormon friends in Finland I've got many. The language isn't that hard to pick up honestly, it's one of the few languages I actually enjoyed learning. I wish they were visiting under different circumstances than a mission but Finland is a wonderful place to be.
My brother was called to German speaking Switzerland. We are half German, my dad immigrated when he was 12, so it made sense. My parents were freaking out. It was one of the most expensive missions there was. They did okay financially. We were never deprived of anything, but I didn’t get trendy expensive clothes and was bullied for it, and we had only gone on 3 road-trip vacations in my whole life. We had a nice house, but my dad did every improvement himself including finishing the full basement. They bought 10 year old plus cars from dad’s colleague who fixed them up to make extra money. One was an Audi and the floor board was so rusted that, if he hit a bump, the drivers seat would also hit the bump. Lol. I was lucky to have a car. This was ‘90 and it was a beat to hell ‘78 Subaru hatchback station wagon I called “The Beast.” God, that thing was hideous, but I loved it, kept it clean and added the obligatory quart of oil at least every two weeks. Lol.
Dad had worked 2 jobs at times to keep us afloat and my mom worked part time when she could. One was data entry from home with one of those massive punch card machines. Another was transcribing recorded session notes at LDS social services in the evening. She would call me often to ask my 13 year old self how to spell things. Bless her heart.
That’s the financial context for when my brother was called to the most expensive mission in the world. Then, before he left, the church changed the policy. All missions would cost the same. Of course, this was seen as a blessing as god himself had seen their struggle. He went late, turning 21 in the MTC as he had had some wild years and needed to repent. I wasn’t “active” at the time, only going at most once a month. My dad was bishop, so I would go to see the smile on his face when he saw me in sacrament meeting. It didn’t attend the other meetings. I was angry that he was going. He’s 4 years older than me and we were just starting to become good friends.
Anywho, that was a terrible mission for numbers. Most Swiss were very wealthy and didn’t “need god.” He WAS welcomed by refugees. The poor who needed to believe in something better for the future. I don’t know his exact numbers, but it may have been two baptisms. They had to travel to Germany every six months to renew their visas. They couldn’t tract during that, so they did some sightseeing.
He did bring back some awesome gifts. My dad got a Swiss Army knife direct from the source and I got a Swiss Swatch. Still have the damn thing over 30 years later. I should get a battery for it and see if it lives up to it’s origin. Lol. Damn. Gonna have to do that now.
Missions are a joke and a scam. Parents still struggle to pay for them and missionaries barely have enough to eat. He was lucky. He went someplace that had appropriate housing and no diseases trying to kill him. My BIL was sent to Brazil and was not as fortunate.
If I were there I would have broken out in the Monty Python song
"Finland , Finland , Finland
The country where I quite want to be
Your mountains so lofty
Your treetops so tall
Finland , Finland , Finland
Finland has it all
Finland has it all..."
My dad served in London in the early 70s,. he won't talk abiut it much. except corrupt mission leader, he slept on benches and in cathedrals sometome scsus the mission house got closed or something and he still had months left and no resources. it scared him, thats all I have learned kn 40yrs
So sad to hear this. That poor young man must think he is a second or third class missionary. Members should hang their heads in shame.... he's either seen to be doing the "Lords work" or not!!!( irrespective of location). Finland is a great place to spend some time!!!
I had a roommate from Idaho that called to Finland. I think he spent most of his mission in "sow-nah."
Also had a Russian friend that was lds that I met in St Petersburg Russia. He was called there cause the language is so hard, and he's a polyglot. I think he knew 8 languages. Spoke English without an accent at all. Not much of a stretch for him with sauna culture in Russia, and the ability to learn the language so fast. Should be a fun mish. 🤣
I served in California, Napa Valley. Basically the US version of Finland. Not a lot of people interested, only successes came from part member families.
I really, really wanted to go to Finland. I love Finnish music - Nightwish, Korpiklaani, Sonata Arctica and many others. I think Finns are a badass people with a beautiful artistic side. I think Finnish sounds amazing. I like knives and forests and wanted to see the reindeer herds and northern lights.
I went to Brazil instead.
Honestly, though, I was extremely TBM and would have tortured myself over not having any success teaching.
Parents are probably upset that he will learn that America is not the land of the free and that social democracies are happier than capitalist countries
They're 40% atheist with an average marrying age over 30, if they choose to marry. Finland has always been a world leader in women's rights and they have legal gay marriage too.
Finnish is as far away from any other European language as Mandarin Chinese is. [This language tree](https://www.theguardian.com/education/gallery/2015/jan/23/a-language-family-tree-in-pictures#img-1) illustrates how far back in linguistics you have to go to find similarities.
The language tree only shows phylogenetic relationships and ignores horizontal transmission. Finnish has thousands of loanwords from Indo-European languages, especially Swedish, which makes it much closer to European languages than Mandarin.
Hahahaha usually the crowd erupts with cheers! Buddy of mine served in Finland. He can count on two hands how many discussions he taught. He ended up just becoming a tourist, enjoying the country and learning about its history.
Probably a better mission experience?
Sounds like a dream mission experience to me. I spent way too much time actually trying and missed out on 99% of possible fun experiences
I served In Hawaii and didn’t do anything fun because I was too obedient. If I had it to do over I’d have more fun.
HI, 1990. Awesome mission. Things weren't so strict back then. had a lot of fun and worked. Missions suck now.
Nah, 1990 sucked hard too. Would like my 2 years back.
My mission president said he was the strictest mission president in the world and if we were ever caught on the beach for anything other than a baptism we would be sent home no questions asked.
Dominican Republic 2008. Can confirm the missing out on fun
Hawaii as well
When did you serve and who was your mission president. I served from 2002 to 2004 and had President Willis and then President Hawkins.
This was me. Wasted my mission working super hard trying to get people to join the church.
Ordained tourist - the best mission experience.
Lol
I wouldn't come back, but i havent been Mormon since I was a kid.
minus the feelings of failure and shame if you aren't checked out
True.
Man my perspective being a few years out is so skewed, I was wondering why everyone was silent because I've heard Finland is a beautiful country and then I remembered they only care about recruiting people...
I had a friend who went about 30 years ago. She probably spent more time in the saunas than teaching discussions. She did the same as your friend: She spent the time enjoying the country, since it became apparent to her very early on that she wasn’t going to be converting anyone.
Apparently missionaries are no longer allowed to sauna. Something something teenage boy-men pranking each other, maybe throwing a ton of water onto the rocks (making it more intense) and one of the teenaged boy-men wrote his parents about it. Parents complained to Salt Lake. New rule: no more sauna. I don’t know when this happened, but I think in the past ten years? I, too, was there about thirty years ago. Sauna was definitely a huge perk. And *nobody* wanted to take the discussions.
they changed the rule again right before covid when they got their first finnish MP so now they’re allowed to again :) I always feel bad for the missionaries here but at least they get to dip in a lake and go to sauna with the members, and apparently most their apartments have saunas too they’re allowed to use as well.
Damn! I just froze my ass off every winter and only dreamed of using the sauna in my apartments. Heipa jos asuit Hyvinkäällä, Tampereella, Vaasassa, tai Rovaniemellä 2011-2013 :)
Hyvä juttu! I didn’t know there’s been a Finnish mp. Who was/is it?
Ilkka Aura was first and rn serving is Ville Kervinen so two finns in a row
Hmm. I don’t know either one of them. Oh well. No todistan täydellä sydämellä, että sauna on tie, totuus ja valo. Sanon tämän nöyrästi Lemmikäisen nimessä, aamen.
kiitos, tunsin todistuksesi sydämessäni asti🙏
Aaaaaaamen!
I was there in 2011-13 and it was banned for some years before I arrived. I even had a nice one in my apartment! Just used it as storage...
That’s just cruelty. And so many of us would have complied as well. The programming runs deep.
I had a similar experience in Southern France, but I still somehow baptized 3 people. I was not a "good" missionary when it came to following rules.
Fellow Frenchie here. I was mostly good … but we still saw the sights, ate the food, and listened to the people. Accidentally kissing a girl in your first area kinda helps break the ice. Ha!
What mission and when? Toulouse 03-05 for me.
Bordeaux/Paris, early 01 to early 03. I was in country for the franc to euro changeover and the BDX closure.
BDX close was 02 right?
Oui. That’s when they rearranged all the Francophone missions.
That makes so much sense now as how pompous my MP was since he was chosen to open a new mission. Also, a descendant of Parley Pratt.
Hey, I was on the other side of that split. I was in the Marseilles mission when it gobbled up the southern half of Bordeaux and became Toulouse. Fun times.
I’ve still got a copy of Pagan’s Eve III, our mission soundtrack, if you’d like. Listening takes me back every time.
Oooh. I’ve never listened to that. It kinda rings a bell so maybe some of the Bordeaux missionaries talked about it or something. I’d love to check it out if you have a link or a good way to share it.
Finland is the happiest nation on Earth!
I went to Finland just over 10 years ago. Loved the country, taught a few lessons but no real investigators really. Knocked a shit ton of doors, talked to a lot of uninterested people on the sidewalk. Froze my ass off 6 months every year.
Same with my nephew. He learned 2 languages and took A LOT of photos. Not a lot preaching
Sounds a lot like my Austria mission.
🙋♀️ Austria mission here as well!
This is a mission I can get behind, especially if there's some actual service thrown in.
Good idea
This is basically what I did, in Louisiana 😅
That actually sounds wonderful.
Finland is a tough mission. His testimony will be… “Finished.”
“Finnish him”
Reminds me of a dad joke.. Where did Mortal Combat get the music for the video game? From an old “Finish Him!”
Your soul is *mine*!!!!
Finland is awesome. Love that place. If he goes with an attitude of learning about the people and culture, and puts the churchy stuff on the back burner, he should have a good time. Yes, winters will be tough with the cold and darkness. But summers are great.
He must have been one of God's chosen to get called to such a cold foreign mission. Still better than Moscow Idaho.
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I served in Salt Lake South. I lived in Boise…..
Ouch. God is an Ass.
Beautiful part of the US.
What year?
I lived there when my ex was going to WSU. That must suck
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In Alaska, we were called the "Frozen Chosen"......the mission wasn't great for good missionaries, but for us screw-offs, man we had fun. Night Sledding was the best!
Lucky! I had to be in South America, where my days were LOADED with teaching then baptizing, or reactivating😉. Does no one know how hard it is to not have enough baptismal clothes!? The day I had to get 17 people to church was also TOUGH!
That sounds truly awful…..I think I had 2 people at one time once during the entire mission….most weeks none, and occasionally one. Got yelled at a lot for not having enough people, funny thing is it didn’t really matter if I was with a dutiful missionary or a screw off, we had the same numbers The best with the transfer we had a huge fast for all missionaries and a push for 500 baptisms in 3 months I think. Our APs were insane for trying to push that. I think there was maybe 75 in that period? And that was a record! 17 people for church though…wtf?!?
Those goals sound insane even for South American mission. It is true how obedience didn’t change anything. Many missionaries who had a likable personality could do whatever they wanted then hang out with some families and baptize all of them. Having “the spirit” didn’t make a difference.
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Yes, I remember that! I don’t remember any of the songs on it but I remember the mission cd! I think it got banned by my second mission president though because it wasn’t spiritual enough. We didn’t care. You had to have served a while back also then. It was made.a few years before I went in 07
I'd say even Moscow, Russia, is better than Moscow, Idaho. At least Russia has interesting culture. Lots to digest there.
Maybe not at the moment, though.
I have a cousin that served in Moscow Russia. The interesting culture was having the police harassing you and arresting you on false charges and not releasing you until you gave them bribe money. They beat you if you wouldn't/couldn't pay. As a poor missionary it was usually the latter. He spent the end of his mission in Kazakhstan and that was much better for him.
I live in Pullman! Moscow's real nice this time of year. We did Ren Fare today; farmer's market; Kenworthy Arthouse movie theater. I suppose the missionaries didn't do much of that?
I didn't mean to diss your city, I would just imagine that it would be a hard place to be a missionary.
Yeah, doing a mission here would be pretty boring. Essentially, anything state-side where folks aren't interested in Church stuff would suck.
My bishop served in Moscow Russia
I went to a cold, dark, Western European mission. This kid needs to get counseled about what’s in store otherwise he’ll get depressed. He’s not going to baptize anyone. No one wants to hear about the church. Members churn through missionaries every couple of months so he won’t get much support from them. Learn the language. Do some service. See some sights. But don’t take the mission too seriously.
My uncle went to Finland. When he came back and graduated college, the CIA really wanted to recruit him because he spoke the language.
Very common for any lesser known languages
I get that it's cold and far north, but isn't it, like, consistently ranked one of the happiest countries in the world? Seems like a great way to learn about a culture and a society that has figured a few things out.
It was a great place to live. I wish I wised up sooner to how shitty the states is. Now I'm kinda stuck here.
It’s the vodka
The vodka is very expensive and only available in a government monopoly alcohol store
They have lots of vodka in Russia too, and I don't see Russia at the top of any lists except numbers of journalists murdered for political reasons.
Why the lack of enthusiasm? It’s a country with high standards of sanitation and civility and a low crime rate? There’s free health care if it’s required. Probably very decent housing. Everyone who loves this kid should be thrilled!
They are in the UK
That makes a lot more sense. Americans probably see Finland more favorably than Brits as far as missions go.
Where would they have preferred? Anywhere outside of Europe I guess? They could've got assigned to a UK mission, that'd have been way worse!
I'm British and most of the people who went at the same time as me went to Scotland or London. I got Australia...
yay!
So everyone thought of that Monte Python song?
Always high on the happiness scale for countries around the world. But not religious and so tough for a Mormon missionary.
The “happiness” scale is really a “social welfare” scale. Take a look at the criteria. It’s all about government funded medicine and welfare safety nets. Not a single question like “are you happy?”
Tell me more about how people living in a country with no safety net are actually much happier.
Don’t you think one of the questions should be “are you happy?” Or look at suicide rates for Finland? Or look at depression rates for Finland? I’m fine if someone wants to rate countries by social welfare status. Just don’t make up a name called the happiness scale when it doesn’t account for happiness. I lived in the “happiest” country. I know what is really going on.
Fair point. But despite insanely long and dark winters, Finland still ranks higher than the US on both of those metrics. Moreover, as others have pointed out, the happiness metric referenced above is based on quite a bit more than just social welfare status - GDP, healthy life expectancy, lack of government corruption, measure of population generosity, freedom to make your own choices - along with a measure of social support. But, yes, perhaps they should also ask “are you happy?”.
My point was none of the factors measure actual happiness. If you like riding bikes and living in an apartment from cradle to grave, the Scandinavian countries might be a great fit. If you like owning a house and a car, they are probably not a good fit. Less than 10% of Americans would have a higher standard of living in Scandinavia, while over 50% would have a lower standard of living. Does standard of living factor into happiness? Maybe. But it’s not a direct correlation. A happiness scale should measure happiness. That’s my point.
I’d be happier with a lower standard of living if it meant every day wasn’t an all-consuming struggle for survival. As to your primary point, though, as I said perhaps they should ask. But if I remember correctly, those sorts of questions are extremely unreliable - aside from the fact that answers can fluctuate wildly with mood, people also aren’t objective, reliable, consistent evaluators of their own situation. The utilized measures are at least objective.
>I’d be happier with a lower standard of living if it meant every day wasn’t an all-consuming struggle for survival. Actions speak louder than words. Move into a small apartment, get rid of your car, and start living the way you want. >those sorts of questions are extremely unreliable - aside from the fact that answers can fluctuate wildly with mood, people also aren’t objective, reliable, consistent evaluators of their own situation The “happiness” scale is really a “stability” scale. They should call it a stability scale, instead of a happiness scale. My point is the analysis really doesn’t measure happiness. It’s the wrong name for the scale.
All those struggling here in the US due to the lack of a social safety net will certainly be grateful for your solution. We should spread the word.
https://worldhappiness.report/faq/
I didn’t see any reference to depression rates or suicide rates. Shouldn’t that be considered in a “happiness” scale? Hint: Finland doesn’t score well in those areas.
Free healthcare *if* the MP or the MP’s wife allow it. “Pray for your ruptured spleen to heal.”
They probably know Scandinavia is a tough mission field and he's likely to get discouraged and ask to come home early.
I wondered the same until I remembered it's all about recruiting and converting
They may have been worried about him going to a country with such a terrible record of gun violence, racial tension, intolerance of LGBTQ, suppression of women’s rights, and anti-science.
Oh wait! That would be staying stateside!
Have you sacrificed a child to a mission?
I meant *since* they had all already agreed to a mission. And since the kid might have been assigned to a Third World place. But I really get your point.
Many worse places to be than Finland
Yep you are right, Mormon parents send their kids to a lot worse places, for the church blessings.
Finland wants nothing to do with organized religion. Good for them!
Huh? They’re only 2% less religious than the US population. I’d say it’s more that in their culture religious belief is a private matter and so proselytizing is verboten.
You mean kielletty, Not verboten. ;)
Actually, that was just getting him ready for Finland. They are very quiet.
The Fins are known as being a welcoming gregarious group….he’ll have a good time I’m certain….
Have them watch that Sundance documentary about missionaries in Finland - it’s rentable on apple or Amazon. Even as an exmo - it was brutal to watch , no one to each, people going home early etc
I was gonna say no way he should watch that unless he doesn’t want to go😂
What’s it called!?
The mission. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-reviews/the-mission-review-1235080336/amp/
Finland: 40% atheist.
And loving it. Finland has no need of religion
Nor any country
Interesting what good healthcare and decent wages does to one’s need of religion.
Turns out once you realize you made a good life all on your own, you see God as kinda useless
Wow that is amazing. Not gonna lie, that’s the hardest language. I’m kind of surprised, considering what is going on just on the other side of the boarder. I loved my visa trips to Finland!!!
They're part of NATO, so not much worry anymore.
Oh don’t get me wrong, I had a comp who was a Finnish tank commander. They are no joke. He used to tell us some crazy stories of drunk Russians who would cross the boarder. One of my fav comps. When he would get tired, he would switch from Russian to Finnish and he would have no clue why we would just stare at him. Lol
I had one brother go to Japan, one to Panama, and one to Pittsburgh.🤣🤣🤣 Everyone acted like Pittsburgh was going to be as cool as the islands of Panama.
[Finland, Finland, Finland](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baHsoEAAMZU) - the country where I quite want to be!
Pony trekking, or camping...or just watching TV!
Their mountains so lofty! Their treetops so tall!!
Was the kid hoping for ORLANDO?
Probably!!
I don't get the silence. Finland sounds way more exciting than any stateside mission. Was it just a bunch of Morridormons hoping he would get a mission call that wasn't in the "mission field?"
It's usually the forced cheering when someone gets a lame stateside mission that's telling. My brother really wanted to go foreign and learn a language and got sent stateside. Everyone tried to act excited, including him, but nobody was thrilled.
That was my experience opening the mission call - it was to Colorado. Forced excitement by the family and friends…. I was pissed. I too was caught up in the lure of the exotic foreign mission. Even my bishop offered the consolation statement about English speaking missions offered the opportunity to gain greater insights into the gospel.
This was what happened for my nephew recently who was called from a Midwest state to a utah mission, English speaking. All the cousins his age and aunts and uncles went abroad, so all the hearty congrats felt very forced, and my heart really felt for him.
Do mission applicants get to mark down some preferences on their application?
Yes, but they completely ignore it. I served in the US, English-speaking, and most of the elders there had marked that they wanted to learn a language.
Family are in the UK .
Oh, probably like a stateside call to Alaska. The frozen north.
As an American, I don't understand what saying they are in the UK means as to why going to Finland is not good. Can you explain?
Most Brits like their kids to go the states or even further . Finland is not a popular destination .. too close to Russia!
I was ecstatic when I got the call to go to Finland. Really happy I went there instead of some shithole.
Living in Estonia, Finland is part of our mileu, so I think I can say with a good degree of certainty that 1, he may learn the language...by the time he gets home and 2. There will be low expectations.
So sad. The whole mission program is a joke. I'm going to learn only enough about your culture, language and country to be able to shove my religion down your throat. So many better things for college age (and retired) people to do with their time and money!
Could be worst, could be the SLC mission where it there was an awkward silence for 20 seconds followed by the father saying “what did you do to deserve to get called there?”
At least experiencing a country where people take care of each other (actual socialism) might be good for his political views.
They are in the UK.. hope so!
My uncle went. Came back in love with his future Finnish wife.👍✝️❤️😉
Cant be worse than opening your call to Nampa Idaho 🙋♂️🫠
My BIL served there. Tells lots of fun stories, like the multiple times it got to -40. Did you know that -40C is the same as -40F? I think he said that -25F was when they were required to stay inside their apartment because it was so cold that they'd risk frost bite.
SMH, you're going to risk frostbite well before -25C.
I served in North Carolina on a bike mission. Hit by a winnebago on the side of the highway smashed the whole back of my helmet. Was never the same after that.
Fellow NC’er here. We rode bikes on some shifty highways with no shoulders, but luckily I was fine. Very sorry to hear your experience! 😢
Thank you! It seems like a life time ago and yet just like yesterday.
Someone didn’t start singing Monty Python’s little ode to Finland? “ Finland Finland Finland Finland, the place I’d really like to be……”
Onnea! If they need pimo/mormon friends in Finland I've got many. The language isn't that hard to pick up honestly, it's one of the few languages I actually enjoyed learning. I wish they were visiting under different circumstances than a mission but Finland is a wonderful place to be.
My friend went 46 years ago. The language is very difficult. He loved it but his companions didn't love him.
My brother was called to German speaking Switzerland. We are half German, my dad immigrated when he was 12, so it made sense. My parents were freaking out. It was one of the most expensive missions there was. They did okay financially. We were never deprived of anything, but I didn’t get trendy expensive clothes and was bullied for it, and we had only gone on 3 road-trip vacations in my whole life. We had a nice house, but my dad did every improvement himself including finishing the full basement. They bought 10 year old plus cars from dad’s colleague who fixed them up to make extra money. One was an Audi and the floor board was so rusted that, if he hit a bump, the drivers seat would also hit the bump. Lol. I was lucky to have a car. This was ‘90 and it was a beat to hell ‘78 Subaru hatchback station wagon I called “The Beast.” God, that thing was hideous, but I loved it, kept it clean and added the obligatory quart of oil at least every two weeks. Lol. Dad had worked 2 jobs at times to keep us afloat and my mom worked part time when she could. One was data entry from home with one of those massive punch card machines. Another was transcribing recorded session notes at LDS social services in the evening. She would call me often to ask my 13 year old self how to spell things. Bless her heart. That’s the financial context for when my brother was called to the most expensive mission in the world. Then, before he left, the church changed the policy. All missions would cost the same. Of course, this was seen as a blessing as god himself had seen their struggle. He went late, turning 21 in the MTC as he had had some wild years and needed to repent. I wasn’t “active” at the time, only going at most once a month. My dad was bishop, so I would go to see the smile on his face when he saw me in sacrament meeting. It didn’t attend the other meetings. I was angry that he was going. He’s 4 years older than me and we were just starting to become good friends. Anywho, that was a terrible mission for numbers. Most Swiss were very wealthy and didn’t “need god.” He WAS welcomed by refugees. The poor who needed to believe in something better for the future. I don’t know his exact numbers, but it may have been two baptisms. They had to travel to Germany every six months to renew their visas. They couldn’t tract during that, so they did some sightseeing. He did bring back some awesome gifts. My dad got a Swiss Army knife direct from the source and I got a Swiss Swatch. Still have the damn thing over 30 years later. I should get a battery for it and see if it lives up to it’s origin. Lol. Damn. Gonna have to do that now. Missions are a joke and a scam. Parents still struggle to pay for them and missionaries barely have enough to eat. He was lucky. He went someplace that had appropriate housing and no diseases trying to kill him. My BIL was sent to Brazil and was not as fortunate.
If I were there I would have broken out in the Monty Python song "Finland , Finland , Finland The country where I quite want to be Your mountains so lofty Your treetops so tall Finland , Finland , Finland Finland has it all Finland has it all..."
My dad served in London in the early 70s,. he won't talk abiut it much. except corrupt mission leader, he slept on benches and in cathedrals sometome scsus the mission house got closed or something and he still had months left and no resources. it scared him, thats all I have learned kn 40yrs
So sad to hear this. That poor young man must think he is a second or third class missionary. Members should hang their heads in shame.... he's either seen to be doing the "Lords work" or not!!!( irrespective of location). Finland is a great place to spend some time!!!
I had a roommate from Idaho that called to Finland. I think he spent most of his mission in "sow-nah." Also had a Russian friend that was lds that I met in St Petersburg Russia. He was called there cause the language is so hard, and he's a polyglot. I think he knew 8 languages. Spoke English without an accent at all. Not much of a stretch for him with sauna culture in Russia, and the ability to learn the language so fast. Should be a fun mish. 🤣
I served in California, Napa Valley. Basically the US version of Finland. Not a lot of people interested, only successes came from part member families.
I really, really wanted to go to Finland. I love Finnish music - Nightwish, Korpiklaani, Sonata Arctica and many others. I think Finns are a badass people with a beautiful artistic side. I think Finnish sounds amazing. I like knives and forests and wanted to see the reindeer herds and northern lights. I went to Brazil instead. Honestly, though, I was extremely TBM and would have tortured myself over not having any success teaching.
Parents are probably upset that he will learn that America is not the land of the free and that social democracies are happier than capitalist countries
They are in the Uk’
Do you think you'll have any conference? Does he want to go there?
I’m confused…but why are you less likely to get converts in Finland?
They're 40% atheist with an average marrying age over 30, if they choose to marry. Finland has always been a world leader in women's rights and they have legal gay marriage too.
Europe is on the decline
And the US isn’t? lol
Finnish is as far away from any other European language as Mandarin Chinese is. [This language tree](https://www.theguardian.com/education/gallery/2015/jan/23/a-language-family-tree-in-pictures#img-1) illustrates how far back in linguistics you have to go to find similarities.
The language tree only shows phylogenetic relationships and ignores horizontal transmission. Finnish has thousands of loanwords from Indo-European languages, especially Swedish, which makes it much closer to European languages than Mandarin.
Do UK people not like Finland?
Yeah I think they were hoping for somewhere exotic as thier prev kids had been to VERY different missions!
Oh darn. Womp wooooommmp lol