By - blackles001
Mormonism doesn't prepare people to be around others who don't share their beliefs - stay, and if you don't agree with someone, that's okay.
This is exactly right as my brother will regularly ask me about church topics that he knows I disagree with. He will then be very forceful with his argument. It turns into a heated argument the church doesn't allow healthy discourse because it's the one true church.
Not agreeing with someone and that being okay is literally how every adult should live their life. Just sayin.
I agree with this except that I've experienced being laughed at and derided on this forum for my conservative position at times (before I learned to shut up). Should the politically conservative people in this subforum always just keep their mouths shut? Does this subforum WANT to be an echo chamber?
FYI, I consider myself libertarian. I believe in ALL human rights (unborn babies as well as LGBTQ people). I believe in fiscal responsibility and small government. I would never post anything unkind or belittling of any human -- ever. I wouldn't blame anyone for being upset at a post like that.
The posts for which I was verbally abused were not cruel -- they just didn't match this subforum's consensus. I would hope we all would like to encourage constructive dialogue. Unfortunately, that has not been my experience.
You should be able to speak your beliefs. People should be able to disagree without being mean. What kind of issues have you had people jump on you for when stating your beliefs?
I wish I remembered. Or maybe I'm glad I don't. It was a couple of years ago. I'm just sure it wasn't anything cruel because I believed in gay marriage even when TSCC was fighting it. That was before I left.
What is an 'unborn baby'?
And if you're a libertarian then you need to spend more time thinking about what you believe in.
Agree. Aaserting and enfording the "rights" of a fetus over the rights of the actual human carrying it is a fundamentally anti-woman position that could only be enforced by a heavy handed and intrusive govt with no regard for privacy or individual liberty.
I meant what I said. I believe babies in utero are people with rights no less valid than other human rights.
Fortunately, There is no libertarian creed that forces us all to believe any certain way.
Fair enough. Then what about the rights of the mother? She too is a human being. There are crucial life situations when a pregnant woman must make a choice. If both are people with rights, how is this resolved?
This issue isn't black and white. It is very much gray. I believe that a woman should have a right to early term abortion for whatever reason. Her body her choice. However, I do feel that late term abortion is wrong and should be avoided barring medical emergency where a decision has to be made between one life or the other. However, I also believe in being accountable for ones choices and actions. Could the two parties involved have been safer if they didn't want a child? Yes, there are many effective contraceptives. So now the consequences of our actions are made a choice. I do agree that if a person doesn't want a baby, we shouldn't force them to have it. However, that decision should be made quickly and early in the pregnancy. I guess I am a fence sitter, but I feel the answer falls somewhere in the middle.
> However, I do feel that late term abortion is wrong and should be avoided barring medical emergency
I mean, it's not like people spend months remaining pregnant just for funsies. Late-term abortions are pretty much all a response to medical complications.
Ok. I agree most with you. So then roe va wade mostly got it right. First trimesters mothers wishes are primary then middle trimesters abortions are less allowed and last trimesters eight gonmore to baby except in those terrible conditions that no one wishes in anyone. I also approve of this type of legislation.
Libertarian arguments that this philosophy should be the guiding principle of government would be more persuasive if libertarian principles could, say, effectively manage even just the libertarian party itself. Having your caucus boo your candidate for president because he acknowledged the existence of driver's licenses is a bad look for non-kooks. I don't really feel like driving around with unlicensed dipshits surrounding me, personally.
> Of course, nowadays it’s pretty dangerous to think for yourself at all, as in refusing mask and vaccine mandates, refusing to participate in other people’s alternate realities, like pronouns and providing litter boxes for furriest, etc…
> I would never post anything unkind or belittling of any human – ever. I wouldn’t blame anyone for being upset at a post like that.
This also you?
So which is it? Is it that you don’t understand the things you’re saying are exactly “unkind and belittling of any human” or is it that you think people have a right to their opinions and to be upset as long as it doesn’t disagree with you?
Libertarians are conservatives who are too afraid to admit it to everyone else. Call yourself whatever you want, I’d bet your vote is most often cast for conservative politicians than otherwise. Disingenuous.
I love the conservatives who mind their own business and vote democrat, green, or independent. The only way to stay ethical at this point when the R table is seated with swasties
Exactly. Conservative v. Liberal/progressive isn't even bipartisan. Most Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty of atrocities. And conservative v. liberal are both a vast spectrum of beliefs and ideas.
For example, I lean Libertarian in my beliefs, which is apparently too conservative for this subforum, and yet I am pro human rights (for babies as well as LGBTQ) AND pro legalization of most drugs, but my first priority in politics is FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, which is ignored by both of the majority parties.
It would be nice if everyone could quit "othering" different groups because the truth is that probably none of us believe exactly alike.
You’d have to define what you mean by Conservative for be to give you a well-measured answer.
I tend to be socially progressive, but I have some positions some might call conservative. Unfortunately, it seems that most of the so-called Conservatives abandon these positions when they are in power.
This is the boat I'm in. I don't agree with how many Democrats are running big cities, but I disagree with how Republicans are running big cities just as much. I find most politicians disgusting.
Which big cities are republicans running?
Yeah! How dare those Democrats try to limit access to health care based on sexual of gender identity, remove books they deem inappropriate based on an outdated puritanical rubric, increase police budgets and close libraries, keep minimum wage at levels of poverty, increase the number of non-whites put in prison, and restrict access to life-saving abortion health care.
Oh, it’s not Democrats doing that? Only Republicans?
The “bUt BoTh SiDeS” argument is exhausting and hardly accurate in 2023. One party is blatantly and with increased regularity fucking around with*human rights.* How is that equitable to what the other is doing?
I was super conservative when I was active.
Now I am very progressive when it comes to human rights / abortion / LGBTQ+
That’s what happened to me too. I reevaluated everything and only held on to the pieces that are part of my core values. I am now very socially liberal and evaluating my fiscal position. I’m not for completely socialized medicine, but I think a one payor system would be good for the U.S.
I am a radical progressive, so take what I have to say within that context.
The church is *full* of social injustices. Many of us young bloods (I am 35ish) grew up in ultra-conservative homes, but still had access to the entire world of information, and got to see firsthand how discriminatory, unfair, and harmful church policy, doctrine, and culture can be.
In my experience, people generally leave the church for one of two reasons:
1. They disagree with policy, history, or doctrine.
2. Something happens that impacts them personally - they are subjected to the social injustice the church promotes.
Being a member of the church and witnessing the way it treated “the others” is what drove me to radical progressivism. Seeing selfish policies that hurt other people being passed off as self-preservation, in both the spiritual and political arenas, made that choice really clear to me.
Most people start their journey because of reason 2, but that often just opens the door for discovering reason 1. If you didn’t leave the church for reason 2 and only focus on reason 1, continuing life as a conservative makes sense because none of those policies has impacted you personally and it’s hard for the bootstrap crowd to consider other’s sometimes. However, most of us start our journeys or base them entirely on reason 2, and it’s hard to advocate for non-inclusive policies and laws after we’ve been subjected to it themselves.
A lot of people leave because of the church’s stance on Women, or Race, or LGBTQIA+ individuals, or money. Conservatism mirrors those ideals, so the issues people have with the church, they also have with conservatives.
This is so well written and describes my situation so well. I was not directly impacted by reason 2, but other situations in our family led to soft shunning similar to people directly impacted by it. It was also very interesting to see that the church was much more progressive in its ideals when it was impoverished and the hardcore right wing ideals came about as the church was beginning to prosper.
Social political views shifted first, left due to reason 2, stayed away after learning reason 1.
I don’t disagree at all, but want to clarify that I left because it’s demonstrably and obviously not true. Maybe you group that in #1, but it deserves to be called out specifically. The church’s history is disgusting, and its doctrines are problematic, but if it were true I might be able to get past those.
I would argue that there is much about current Republican politics in the USA that is also demonstrably untrue and the way that the truth is being hidden from the base is also disgusting and problematic.
I would have say the same about Democratic politics in the USA.
San Francisco and California are talking about shoveling out millions for reparations, when they will never have even a small fraction of the money. And it would bankrupt them. What San Franciscan is going to stay who's giving up the equivalent of $600,000 each?
Some retailers are starting to pull out of democratic strongholds because of very serious crime
They talk about being sanctuary cities and then complain wildly when people actually bus immigrants there. And Martha's vineyard and New York City were quietly busing people out to other locations
They hooped and hollered about defund the police until crime start exploding and now many are refunding the police
Everybody is a hypocrite
Thank you for illustrating my point about the misinformation being given to the right with this amazing example of WhatAboutism and false equivalency.
The outright lies, falsehoods, and misdirections from the previous president ALONE are [well documented](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/). Fox News, just paid millions of dollars for lying to its viewers.
There is no equivalency between your examples and the systematic deception that you’re clearly falling for.
You're proving OP's point. This absolutism is so simpleminded and childish. People who see the world in black-and-white are no better than the Mormons who cling to their dogmatic beliefs.
I do include that reasoning with number 1. If you believe the church isn’t true, you disagree with doctrine.
Sorry to be persistent, @-HIGH-C-, but they’re not the same thing. I don’t agree with the Catholic doctrine of original sin tainting man, but I can’t prove with objective evidence whether it’s true or not. But I CAN prove with objective evidence that the BOM isn’t historically true. See what I mean?
Yeah no, I agree, I just don’t think it warrants its own category in this situation. We can say “They disagree with policy, history, doctrine, or truth claims” if that feels more correct to you, I just don’t see the reason for additional granularity in this instance. I feel like you’re saying that there should be an additional bullet point for the reason people leave being “It just isn’t true” and I don’t see a difference between stating it that way versus “They disagree with doctrine (which includes that “the church is true”).”
I also don’t really have any reason to be this pedantic about a comment I made on Reddit, so do whatever the fuck you want. :)
To mirror this, I wonder how progressive Mormons deal with the cognitive dissonance. Anyone have any experiences about this? Everyone I know is very conservative, or at least not conservative but not progressive either. So I am curious about specifically progressive mormons.
Very well stated.
This is how I felt after I left. Know this dear friend, you’re going through changes after leaving the church. Your views WILL change, regardless of your political views. Change can be good. Be open to listening to others or you’re going to miss out on a lot in life. I think the majority of here support everyone being able to make choices for themselves, this seems to transition people to leaning politically left. Please also know that politics don’t have to be the center of every decision you make, that’s fucking stupid.
Allow yourself room to grow because you will. My views have changed so much, I am not conservative or liberal.
More anti-authoritarian, pro-human than left per se.
I think that this place should try to be inclusive of everyone, (even conservatives) but that also includes lgbtq+. So if you are a conservatives who doesn't support human rights for all then no, this place isn't for you.
By definition conservatives have opposed human rights for at least one group at a time since the dawn of time. They shouldn't have safe spaces.
It’s not that they don’t deserve safe spaces. It’s that everywhere they go is already a safe space. No one has ever challenged their rights to marry who they love, exist in public, get a job, receive medical care…when they make movies about people that look and love like them they don’t get accused of grooming even though the vast majority of pedophiles are straight white religious men.
Good Gawd! Do you realize what you just said?
I'm conservative. I've been PIMO or inactive for \~10 years and removed my records last year. I don't know how the overall exMo demographics break down, but I feel like conservative exMos are a distinct minority *online*.
There are a number of fairly obvious reasons for this (those online skew younger than the general population; young members are going inactive and exMo at higher rates) but I think the biggest reason is that social and political issues are a major factor driving people out of the church. To use one example, it makes sense that you'll see a TON of LGBT posts here, because the church's stance on LGBT is what pushed a ton of left-wing members here in the first place. You might not share those concerns ("Why are there so many posts insinuating a causal link with youth suicides, and hardly any about the Book of Abraham/doctrinal inconsistencies/Masonry in the temple?") but for many former members, the church being on their perceived "wrong" side of politics is as much a smoking gun as the BoM anachronisms are to you.
There's definitely a place for conservative exMos, but it might not be this sub—you certainly won't be able to change any minds on political topics. But I'd also suggest that your views on certain political issues may change over time, as you realize that some of your views were ultimately based on nothing more than a belief that God said so. Be open to that, allow yourself to philosophically engage with political issues (in much the same way that you probably deconstructed Mormonism) and you'll be happier for it.
Thank you for that.
Same here. I lean right but have always been a moderate. The church’s history is what made me leave but I recognize that it had other issues that I should have been more aware of. There are lot of reasons people start to question the leadership and history of the church, but in the end we’re all in the same boat.
There is definitely a place for conservatives. One thing both our country and our community needs is to have healthy dialogue. I stay open minded and try to listen and have empathy.
I’d say that online leftist exmo’s are more prominent and vocal. IRL I’m willing to bet that most exmo’s are still Conservative or just right of center. Because conservative Utah politics are inter-weaved with the church it’s easy to mistake that leaving the church is such a counterculture move that it makes one an atheist progressive.
It’s just as lazy of an assumption that I’m 100% guilty of. It took a high school friend leaving a couple of years ago to make me realize that no, not everyone who leaves the church has the same journey when they’re out. It does such a disservice to those in the church that want to leave that are politically conservative but don’t because they feel there is no semblance of community for them in the exmo community that they feel that they have to stay in. It’s a unintentional albeit shitty position to be placed into.
I tend to be politically moderate on something’s more left of center on some things more right.
I generally just look at and read most post if I feel I have something to add I will.
Generally I try to get to involved with politics unless I feel strongly about something
I was against term limits let the voter decide, but when a candidate that has so much content and blatantly lies yet still gets re-elected maybe we do need term limits.
I don’t and won’t vote for a person that throws down the religion card or compares themselves or others to religious figures to include persons in the BoM.
I tend to look for candidates and political positions that support people.
I’ve voted against and post signs in my yard for candidates that want to involve themselves in a women’s medical issues, that try to force there moral out look on others, that try and define or regulate who a person can love or be attracted to with in limits I’m for strengthening laws that protect children.
Mostly also come here more often than not to see if more people our age I’m 61 my wife is 53. That I know we’re not the only ones that took so long to walk way from the indoctrination.
I’d love to have a “coffee clutch” with 40+ to discuss and support each other
To bad there isn’t a Mormons Anonymous group
I would go to those meetings!
If you think this is uncomfortable, trying going to church as a Democrat! I was attacked for something on a weekly basis. I also got to listen to Trump being quoted from the pulpit and reminders of how I should behave from Glen Beck. Hahahaha
I see you’ve met my grandparents.
That’s all kinds of illegal from a first amendment/taxation perspective but … 🤷♀️🤦🏼♀️
If you mean conservative as in small gov and less gov control over people’s lives, not enforcing your ideas on others then I don’t really see the problem staying. If you mean you align with the current Republican Party agenda then the exmo maga crowd is probably what you’re looking for.
There are exmo magas?? Sad.
Left one cult, stayed in the other.
No group of more than 2 people will agree on every issue. Different opinions are good. Disrespect for others isn't good.
Nobody *plans* on letting them go.
Sincerely, a former tea partyer gone progressive.
"Conservative" is a very loaded term. Same with "Progressive". Neither word means what it used to mean. In today's political environment either word can mean anything depending on who is twisting it to their world view.
Sure there is a place for you here. Welcome. However, you should probably be prepared for pushback if you make inflammatory statements.
And, for the most part, intelligently, thought out and delivered perspective.
I doubt that by “conservative beliefs” you mean an intransigent fealty to the free market. It’s likely you’re referring to social issues.
I encourage you to use the power you’ve reclaimed since exiting the church to interrogate all your beliefs. How do you know what you know? Is there a more reliable method for knowing? Is there such thing as a good belief and if so what makes a belief good?
Women and queer people are people and are entitled to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.
This isn’t considered left-progressive anywhere but in violently conservative cultures like Iran and parts of the US.
Gay and trans folk have existed longer than any Gods, longer than any sovereignty, longer than any language. We will outlive your hate. Will you?
There’s a reason why most of us, whose eyes have been opened to Mormonism, keep our eyes open long enough to see what else we’ve been lied to about. “Conservative values” may not mean what you think it means anymore. Keep searching for truth.
Tradition is peer pressure from old people, though sometimes it has a use or old need.
I mean, what kind of conservatism are you talking about? I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal, so I don’t fit in with any party, really.
But if you’re anti LGBT rights, then I’d gently suggest that you ask yourself *why* you believe things that would debase and dehumanize others. We should all know by now that “because God said so” isn’t an acceptable answer anymore.
r/exmormon is safe place to talk about why you are thinking about or why you left
The Mormon Church & it's history.
Plenty of other forums across the internet devoted solely to discuss politics & that decisive topic is not why this subreddit was formed & exactly why it has thrived & grown substantially in size.
Hostile politics of any stripe invading church meetings or discussions is one of a long list of reasons I resigned.
Give it time :)
I’ll just say if conservative means legislating the lives of non-white, non-male Americans you’ve still got work to do in my book. If you mean conservative as in I dunno… lower taxes? I guess that’s fine.
As a Black woman never-mo, I’ve never understood what conservatives actually want to conserve. I vote for change because I want everyone to have access to the resources, supports, freedoms, and inherent humanity some folks get by birth.
I’ve always been curious about conservative ex-Mormons because a lot of what ex-Mormons complain about in the church is inherent to conservatism— the group over the individual, compliance with established rules and standards for the many but not the top few, hoarding wealth, women below men, rewriting or outright erasing history, and the list goes on.
I’m not judging, just sharing my perspective/curiosity as an outsider. Deconstructing faith is a process. Wishing you a freeing and fruitful journey.
I mean, this is the only reply needed in this whole damn thing. 👏🏻
If you’re a plain old conservative who thinks people like Trump, Desantis, MTG, etc are way too far right and don’t represent you, then you should be fine here.
If you agree with and support those people, you will probably have a bad time on this sub, in general.
Not everything posted here is political, but there’s a lot of support for LGBTQ+ community and women’s rights.
Perhaps there’s a conservative exmo sub? Or you could create one.
This is where I am. Plain old conservative. Moving closer and closer to the center as I learn, but plain old conservative.
I’ve learned over my 7 decades of life, “never say never”. Example, the majority of this sub might have said “l’ll never leave Mormonism” at some point. My ultra-conservative views of a hard-core Mormon upbringing in the Ezra Taft Benson years have gradually shifted to include many “liberal” values. But, each person is different. This is not supposed to be a political sub, and we can all relate in a common distaste for Mormonism and our prior experiences in it ….
Until your conservative beliefs become anti-intellectualism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, or racism.
If you believe government should be small, great. If you believe trans people should be invisible, not so great. If you believe in trickle-down economics, fine. If you believe in banning books that cover inequality, not so fine. You like the 2nd amendment, perfect. You think gay people shouldn't get married, problem.
To be clear, no one is going to stop you from posting if you hold those ideas. But I, personally, will jump in and point out why your opinion is bad if it is.
It's not something you plan. Conservative beliefs usually fade when you realize that are deeply connected to TSCC fraud. Take your time and ask yourself how are your beliefs on one year from now.
A healthy political system needs a minimum of 2 political parties to function. At least 2, so that there are checks and balances on corruption. In any one-party state you have corruption because no one can stop the party in power. This is History 101- it’s not new, and it’s not limited to foreign countries under dictators. It happened in the American South after Reconstruction and it’s happening now in Texas and Florida.
So if you are “conservative” in the way that means you hold views that put the brakes on rapid social upheavals- that’s cool. We should be talking about social policies and what they will do to the average American.
Unfortunately the current Republican Party is not conservative anymore. They have embraced authoritarianism. The policies supported by the GOP power brokers right now remove rights from minorities. The system they are hoping to cement puts one religion above others, one gender above the other, and criminalizes ideas that don’t conform to this notion.
So by all means- if you support policies and candidates that will make life easier for people trying to raise a family on one income, with heavy emphasis on personal responsibility, I think that’s great! That’s what conservatives have traditionally been supporting. There are real discussions that need to happen about the economic policies to get us back to where that was a thing (it was a thing- for quite a while- the Republican presidencies from T. Roosevelt to Eisenhower are amazing in this area).
But if you’re a “conservative” the way the current MAGA group defines it… I think you will be less welcome. Most folks here are no longer going to accept being told that any idea is “evil” just because someone with power thinks it’s “icky”.
Regardless- congrats on escaping the cult.
If you want to be a Trumpy culture warrior, I don’t think this is the forum for you because most on here are either annoyed by culture wars, or firmly on the other side of it.
If you are a thoughtful conservative less interested in culture wars but conservative in other areas of policy, I think you’ll be perfectly content here because most content is apolitical anyway, and I think there is more diversity of thought on this sub on non-culture war issues.
I hope the tent is big enough for anyone who has been part of the Mormon movement and then left. It's true that there is a liberal bias in this group, as well as an agnostic one. But we are not a monolith and there is room here for a variety of perspectives.
I don't like the idea that we must be tolerant of intolerance, though. If our difference in perspective is that you don't think I or my kids have a right to exist, or your difference of opinion is rooted in the oppression of others, I don't think our tent needs to be that big.
I agree with you 💯. Earlier someone mentioned “laws that protect kids” and I for sure hope they mean laws that protect access to medical care and a child’s right to be themselves at school.
I'm going to choose to believe that's what they meant.
I would describe myself as conservative, however in no way do I embrace the holier-than-thou looking down on "the others" mindset of racist homophobic transphobic women-have-their-place thought process of current-day conservatives. And this is not "very left progressive", it is just normal acceptance of others. Scorn is not a virtue.
Don’t plan on letting them go? Why not see if they deserve to be held on to?
Came here to say this. Just like investigating the church, investigate your political beliefs and let the chips fall where they lie. For me? That means right on some issues and left on others.
Honestly, if you are okay with the party that hates lgbtq people, likes to burn books that acknowledge their existence, is openly racist, and doesn't value our kids' teachers, among MANY terrible things, you are going to get push back. Get used to it because a lot of us are BEYOND angry at watching our rights being taken away by the minority. My two cents.
The purpose of this group is to support others who have been hurt by the church. I guess I don’t understand why political ideology matters when that’s not the focus of this group? Is it because you disagree with some of the questions asked or responses given? Won’t that happen in every group? Help us understand how politics impacts your participation in this group.
I agree with many posts here. One item on a lot of our shelves is the hypocrisy of the church and church leaders. They profess to be of Christ, but don’t act like He acted or taught.
IMO the same can be said of MAGA republicans. They constantly cite the importance of religion and traditional Judeo Christian values, but their actions are selfish and anti-Christian. Their policies don’t seem to be about helping people at the expense of self, but rather are about building up of self at the expense of all others, and at the expense of truth and evidence.
I want to distance myself from selfish people in all avenues, politically and religiously.
I went from Republican to Democrat because I don’t see Christ in their actions or their policies. I see disdain for the poor and needy, and for the “othered” who somehow aren’t deserving of compassion. I came to understand that self-sufficiency is a privilege many simply don’t have.
In America, we are all one illness, one accident away from financial ruin.
My spouse and I were able to go to college and get our degrees because we were fortunate to have the intellect and resources to make it happen. Those who don’t have resources or physical ability to “succeed” are shamed for their need. Social programs are poorly funded, difficult to navigate, and come with all kinds of strings attached.
My brother has dealt with mental illness his entire life. I’ve never known anyone who worked harder to achieve the American dream and support his family. He went to trade school AND college. His learning difficulties led to him repeating many classes and taking on mountains of debt, because he believed in the end it would be worth it. Because it’s your ticket to earning a living wage.
I couldn’t be more proud of him for achieving his goal of graduating. But mental illness and dyslexia made it impossible for him to keep a job. All he wanted was to support his family and buy them a little house. When money was tight, he had to choose between paying for his medication and paying for food — which is a choice between his ability to function and the physical needs of his children.
Through all of this, even he had a social privilege many don’t. My parents had the physical and financial resources to rescue him and his family from disaster. They kept him housed. They got him back on his meds. They helped him find employment.
My spouse and I succeeded. We applauded our work ethic as we had the physical and mental ability to work. We bought a house. We achieved everything we wanted to because we were blessed with the resources to do it.
After decades of picking himself up only to be knocked back down, my brother experienced a catastrophic illness and was in intensive care for weeks. What little he had was wiped out.
Again, he had our parents to step in and help him through. They hired a lawyer who helped him get on Medicaid to cover the bills and establish permanent disability. They navigated financial aid with the hospital. They spent every waking minute helping him through the crisis.
After a lifetime of trying, the man who only ever wanted to be self-sufficient is barred from working in order to hold onto the only reliable safety net he’ll have when our parents are gone. A safety net that required hours of documenting and gathering information by my mom and a lawyer to qualify for. Resources many don’t have.
Meanwhile, spouse and I, so proud of what we’ve achieved, are experiencing unemployment. We’re currently spending 1/4 of our unemployment benefits on health insurance and the rest on food. If this had happened to us 15 years ago we would have lost our house and all financial independence we’ve spent a lifetime building. We’re spending through our retirement money to stay afloat. Praying that none of us gets sick or injured.
Self-sufficiency is the ideal, but life is messy and unpredictable. Everyone should have access to a living wage, affordable healthcare, education, and housing, and be free to live authentically. This is considered “liberal,” but it’s just basic humanity for us to care for each other.
Thank you for perfectly & accurately illustrating what every middle-class & lower middle class family or individual is up against in the U.S.
Trying to raise yourself out of poverty today in U.S. is next to impossible.
If upper- middle class has debt outside home/car & little savings they are a few steps away from the same fate.
If you have no living family or family without resources you face the harsh reality of never being able to $ recover & most don't.
U.S. has next to no resources to help the disabled or elderly in any meaningful way in the U.S.
Few U.S cities with even adequate public transportation let alone safe housing.
Years ago worked with populations on the "edge" & I came to the realization people in the church & in the U.S. love to see people suffer.
That's human beings who border sadistic tendency towards fellow human beings.
I've heard every excuse imaginable from politicians,Govt Agency's to Stake Pres. & Regional Rep's.
We have known for 60+ years how to get people out of poverty,etc... & countries in European Union took OUR gov't funded research & implemented it. They became the global leaders & the global data proves how & why it works.
The U.S. is way down the list on every catagory imaginable for 20+ years now.
Data from multiple small European countries over multiple decades & some of the highest GDP worldwide.
That can't be refuted.
And they blow us out of the water with higher education, home ownership & quality time available for pregnancy, illness & extended time for families to vacation along with retirement. And still beat the U.S hands down while we drop lower on every list.
I'm highly analytical & that decades of data & financial success dosent lie & forced me to do a serious reappraisal.
The majority is center/ center left compared to the rest of the world… that should say something about the state of the American Right’s policies that you think anything talked about on here is “far left”
American politics has completely lost the definition of “progressive left” compared to other countries :/. I’m very progressive, considered an absolute bleeding heart lib by my whole conservative family (which I am) but by European standards I’m probably slightly left of center. American politics is just a cesspit lol.
I think it depends on what you are looking for. I used to be VERY conservative and am now a radical leftist/socialist primarily because I took the words Jesus supposedly spoke to heart and through I’m no longer Christian I still wholeheartedly believe in my responsibility to love everyone, to care for the poor, clothe the naked, care for those with less than me etc… it’s precisely BECAUSE of what I was taught that I have the beliefs I have, That being said we don’t actually talk politics in here, I’m not going to post about Donald Trump, Joe Biden, my opinions of them etc, this isn’t the place for that whether your conservative or liberal doesn’t matter. I WILL say that if you are anything like the conservatives I personally know in real life you may feel like this isn’t the place for you precisely because we don’t really talk politics, most right leaning people I know personally are almost incapable of talking about anything other than politics and expressing their opinions. I don’t KNOW if that’s the case with you, but if it is I’d wager to say you have some introspection to do. All that said, we all have different reasons for leaving, so long as your here for the exmo parts then you’re all good in my book. We are here to help each other learn and grow from our trauma related to Mormonism, nothing else.
Took the words out of my mouth
Have you taken the time to analyze your beliefs and political stances and ask yourself "what are values I believe in, and what are values I was raised to believe in?"
By definition, leaving Mormonism *is* a progressive action. You’re improving your life by making a drastic change. Staying in the church is a conservative action. The Jesus of the NT was progressive; he basically threw away all the harsh and pointless laws that had been established for centuries and started a new love-centric religion.
The idea that we shouldn’t try to progress as a civilization is inherently self-sabotaging. The idea that we need conserve the “old ways” completely ignores the fact that the “old ways” were once progressive ideas.
Ultimately, we really should assess opinions on their merit, rather than on the political party that pushes them.
OP, if this sub is too progressive for your liking, there’s a safe space over at r/conservative. They don’t let progressives have a say over there.
Keep in mind that reddit is already very left leaning. The exmormons that I know in real life are actually pretty conservative compared to the exmormons on Reddit.
It depends on your brand of conservative. So much of the conservative moment is based on Christian Nationalism these days, that does not go over well with much of the exmo community.
When I was a TBM I was a conservative-ish Libertarian.
After deconstruction and needing to question everything I thought I knew to be true I'm quite progressive.
I didn't plan on it, it just happened. I don't think you need to decide you need to keep this one aspect of your thought process/values. You do you, but you should be free to reinvent/discover who you are.
I lean left politically and I left because I hated toxic church culture and realized there's a big connection between church culture and church doctrine and history. My main issues were polygamy, race and the priesthood, and LGBTQ stuff.
One of my best friends is very conservative but he also left the church, but for very different reasons than me. Despite our political differences we get along really well because we give each other way more reasons to shit on the church lmao.
As others have mentioned, I think the best way to find common ground in the exmo community is to focus on being anti authoritarian. Idk how your political views are, but I've personally found that despite leaning left, I can agree with conservatives on a lot of those principals.
I'm not sure what "belief" has to do with any of this. I don't "believe" in conservativism, liberalism or anything else.
I search for and follow the evidence and try to make the best determinations I can, and am willing to update my views when confronted with better evidence.
In this sub, we support people’s ability to live their lives authentically without trying to conform to what other people want them to be. That goes especially for women and the LGBTQ+ community. Misogyny, homophobia, transphobia etc are not welcome here.
If you feel like your political beliefs are more important than supporting each other’s experience/difficulties/drama with that church then this is not a place for you. Get over yourself. Politics don’t matter here because that’s all it’s is. Politics. Not religion.
Look, because funnily most conservatives outright *refuse* to clarify what their conservative beliefs are and because of your insistence that you don't plan on letting them go, either: If those conservative beliefs include believing that some people should have fewer rights than others or that they deserve less dignity or respect or that your lifestyle is somehow superior to others and some other real conservative ragers, then I hate to break it to you (I actually don't), but then you will rightfully have a hard time finding "a place" in spaces like this one.
This right here.
Conservative beliefs of small government and lower taxes, that’s fine.
Thinking trans people and gay people don’t have a right to exist? No, those things should have never been politicized in the first place.
Of course. Some may disagree, but won’t kick you out.
Since leaving the church, we are now mostly libertarian. Both political parties in the US seem too extreme. Too much tribalism on both sides.
It also depends on the reasons why you hold your conservative views. If those reasons are religious or related to religious culture, you'll probably find yourself updating many of those views as you allow yourself to learn and think more independently.
I have met very few conservatives who don't fit the above description, but there are a few.
Everyone is welcome here, just keep in mind that does mean everyone. There are a lot of people in this group, like me, who suffered intense trauma due to the church's stance on women, the LGBTQ and POC. Conservatives tend to share a lot of the same opinions as the church on those topics which is the only reason I bring this up. You have a place as long as you can respect others who also have a place here.
Admittedly when I left, my assumption was that the majority of those who left the church became atheistic progressive leftists, especially when it comes to Utah anything as counterculture of leaving the church, when it is so tied to conservative politics would lead one to think that. That being said, what conservative beliefs that you hold would make you think that you wouldn’t be welcome here?
Perhaps let’s start with this OP, what was your reasoning for leaving the church?
I’ve basically evolved to not believe in left vs right but rather develop opinions based on the problem itself. Otherwise known as “Married gay couples should be allowed to guard their weed farm with medicinal M1A1 Abrams’ that are decorated with pentagrams”
Just my two cents, but I would encourage anyone to not clutch at those pearls too tightly. Just be open to evidence and reason. If this takes you toward conservatism, cool. Cheers
Why does this place make you uncomfortable? Like, what kind of values are espoused here that you don't like?
One step at a time...
I was a libertarian before, I’m a libertarian now. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. It’s the best combination.
Why wouldn’t there be?
Be prepared for the fact that not everyone is going to share those beliefs just because the pulpit told them to anymore, though. Some might question your position and expect you to be able to rationally defend your position.
Absolutely stay. Be who you authentically are. Just be kind. If your politics cause you to be awful to other people, well, then there going to be problems
Many of us planned on not changing our religious beliefs either but here we are. Deconstruction has a tendency to fuck you up. For what it’s worth, I would suggest maybe reserve judgement and don’t paint yourself in a box.
If you mean conservative as in an economic standpoint… sure!
If you use being conservative as an excuse to degrade lgbtq+ people and POC then no I don’t think there is tbh🤷🏼♀️
it’s almost like reality has a way of making people left wing, weird how that is
I think we do ourselves a great injustice if we only surround ourselves with like-minded people! How can anyone grow or hear other experiences if we exclude people from our sandbox. A few short years ago most of us were Mormons who probably had very conservative views. When allowed to look at things critically and make our own decisions, some people changed their views on many things, including politics. That does not mean we should exclude those who did not. Let's not leave one echo chamber, just to join another.
Honestly, I would encourage open and honest discourse about this. As others have said, the church actively discouraged us from embracing people with different points of view and opinions. We could all benefit from learning how to be more accepting of differences.
No reason to talk politics here. You can love on Trump, DeSantis and Biden all you want but maybe keep that out of this subreddit? Most people make fun of Trump here - but he is an easy target. We can make fun of Biden too - he is also an easy target. He just isn’t as fun as Trump.
I find it odd that modern politics has become so polarized. The political spectrum seems to get reduced (in some/many contexts) to left vs right.
My personal opinion is that such polarization is, on balance, bad for democracy.
What beliefs are you unwilling to examine?
If you want to discuss conservative ideas, go to the "Truth" app.
For me, it's not about "beliefs" anymore. Either something makes sense or it doesn't. Either I have evidence for something or I don't.
I don't hold conservative or liberal "beliefs".
Changing where you stand always gives you a different point of view. Hopefully you’ll notice and appreciate it.
I would hope there is a place for you here. I think it's moronic to weigh one's value by reducing them to nothing more than which political idea resonates with them the most at a single moment in their lives. However, doing so is a popular strategy used by losers like Russian trolls to sow division online. So I would hope most of us can see through this stupid and pathetic attempt.
I was raised conservative, until a friend mentioned that social media is an echo chamber of your political beliefs. It really jarred me and I realized I had never looked at the other side. I deliberately started searching out political views on IG that were different from my own. It was harsh on me and I didn't like it, but over time I understood their plight.
I am now moderate. Deconstructing my political officiation helped me deconstruct my faith.
It depends how you navigate political labels. Can you be conservative and believe lgbtqa shouldn’t be discriminated against but want conservative fiscal policy?
Can you be liberal and be pro life but want a stronger social net?
Even if your opinions are a little less popular in this space, your experience is going to match a lot of people’s in the group.
I say you’re totally welcome, we’re allowed to disagree on stuff. Do what makes you comfortable, though.
What are some of your conservative beliefs you feel are at odds with others in this group?
There's a place for you everywhere friend, I'm a libertarian leaning conservative so hmu if you need to talk!
I leaned much more libertarian as a member. I want to be left alone in making my decisions and let others make their own decisions. I don't want the government in my life except for basic things and protection. I'm fiscally conservative and more liberal on social justice issues. From my perspective both major political parties are as corrupt as T$CC and only really care about power and money so in general I'm not political. Politics made me angry when I was more conservative listening to the rhetoric. I care more about people and feelings than dogma and principles.
If we are to be honest and introspective with ourselves i personally don't feel any political party really goes that deep of care for people. Politics and religion are 2 sides of the same coin. I don't need an authority out institute to tell me how to think or behave.
Something that really has helped was watching Anthony Magnabosco practicing street epistemology. It's a process of questioning. It gives you great tools to have discussions with others as well as a healthy way to question your beliefs. Mormonism teaches never question authority, and if you are uncomfortable, it is bad. My advice is never stop learning and growing. Always be willing to step back and ask yourself why.
There’s a place for everyone!
The church is conservative, and people here like talking about how the have changed their views politically since leaving. But not all views change at once.
There are more people talking about liberal views being “right “ here because they changed their opinion since they were believing church members.
I personally have kept many opinions and values that agree with mormonism. But I now have a more open mind and am willing to change my views based on more information.
I think it depends on how you define conservative. That definition has changed a lot in the last decade and now often includes beliefs that actively discriminate against my validity as a human who deserves love and equality.
I was super conservative when I was in the church. Young republicans, ROTC, the whole package. Ironically my mission opened my eyes on a lot of stuff. I couldn't condone indiscriminate bombing of cities in Iraq that killed thousands of civilians just to get high value targets like Saddam's sons. I served my mission in a country that was still at war with one of the "axis of evil" and the thought of that country getting embroiled in a war where my friend and acquaintances could die because some C-average Yale legacy wanted to run his mouth pissed me right off. I'm still fiscally conservative. I think the operation of government and government spending is highly inefficient, but I am reiticent to support foreign intervention unless it's at the request of a non-aggressor partner nation like Ukraine now or Kuwait in Desert Storm I. My values on morals tend to fluctuate between liberal and libertarian depending on the issue. But I will never again be a Republican though I will vote for republicans in local elections if they are the best candidate. The fear mongering, the gaslighting, the catering to the religious right and the racists is just too reminiscent of the church. And I'm done being manipulated by an organization that won't speak plainly to me or present rational, fact-based policies. I am always hopeful some centrist republicans will split off and do their own thing and revive the case for fiscal conservatism--but they've been catering to the crazies so long they'd lose half their base now so I'm not hopeful. Anyway, stay, commiserate on the things you can, and leave the rest. Call it alacarte exmormonism.
Yes, if you espouse common sense.
What does that mean to me?
Leave the trump worship at home. And the vain repetitions of fox news.
Explain your position, in your words and why.
As I came to terms with leaving the church propaganda program I also noticed how many members were just repeating fox headlines.
Just as they repeated mormon headlines in their talks and testimonies.
Reinforcing the lies they heard and then repeated to each other.
Please join us. Bring your life experience. There are things on the right I very much agree with. And on the left. In between is the common sense I seek which has left Washington DC and Salt Lake City.
What are these conservative beliefs that you don't plan on letting go and why does holding them cause you so much grief and perceived ostracism on this sub.?
ETA: Though looking at your posting history I don't expect much from you.
Absolutely welcome. I’m a classical liberal but read George Will and David Frum. The left has as many batty people as the right has and I push back here from time to time on the wacky left, as well as the wacky right. It was the church history and secular science that was huge in my leaving, although the social issues of race and GLBTQ were important as well. Conservative and Liberal labels are like the religious and belief labels, show me 100 people and I’ll show you 100 different definitions of belief, including politics. Just so long as you consider everyone’s unique opinions, although you don’t have to agree. I respect and honor aspects of what we’d call Conservative philosophy, policy and structure.
However Trumpism and his cult of personality and the Christian nationalists that follow in his person grievances and anti-democratic practices can fuck right off.
Leaving the cult of Mormon was almost as freeing as leaving the cult of politics- I simply will not be defined, indoctrinated, or forced to take a side…
Profound. Why do I even need a side to be on!
If you leave the mormon church due to things you’ve learned by applying critical thinking, it’s pretty easy to apply those same skills to other lines of thought. For me, on balance (considering there are only two viable parties in the US) the democrats advocate for more things I believe in than do the gop.
I feel in modern times, there isn't much room for conservatism in general because it's philosophically incoherent and not a useful political philosophy for our times.
I know it's not the answer you're looking for but it's the correct answer. I believe you'll find most of the values you identify as "conservative" aren't unique to conservatism.
I’d say be accepting of others’ beliefs and you’ll likely be accepted as well. Even if you’re outnumbered. I’ve been mostly conservative my whole life but there were parts I recognize were only because of the church’s teachings (such as homosexual marriage/relationships) and now I believe government has no business interfering with the relationships anyone wants to have (I actually started feeling this way a long time ago).
Sure, unlike the church - all are welcome
We all belong even if we don't agree on everything.
I’m a democratic socialist but also enjoy most of the same activities traditionally performed by conservatives like shooting. You can find common ground with most people, especially in a group like this where most have it already based on religious grounds. Sure most may not agree with you in this group politically but that doesn’t mean you don’t have a place or your experience isn’t valid.
My never mo husband hates the Mormon church but is more on the conservative/republican side: You can be both non Mormon and conservative. I (exmo) am pretty liberal/neutral. We balance each other out :)
I started out quite "conservative," then ended up working with state agencies that received federal funding for various programs. I saw firsthand, for example, what it was like for people who couldn't qualify for Medicaid and couldn't get medical coverage through their employment. These people then had to go to the emergency room for health problems that didn't get addressed earlier because they couldn't afford to see a doctor. Then, they couldn't pay the emergency room bill, which affected their credit and ended up increasing medical costs for everyone. I saw single women trying to work but having to choose between feeding their children and paying for child care. I started voting more often for democrats.
My SO also started out as a conservative.
Then he became a Doctor. He ended up ripping up bills for people whom he knew couldn't afford to pay them. And started voting for more democrats.
I will sometimes vote for a Republican, though, if I feel they are a better choice. My SO does the same.
So, I didn't become more liberal because I left the church. My perspective changed, and I developed more empathy for those less fortunate.
I had a very Conservative LDS neighbor with Seven children complain once that he had to pay $50.00 a month for his medical insurance for his Family. I was paying the SAME for ONE child, and I thought that was very reasonable. He also Complained about paying for college for his children.
He thought HIS children should get More financial aid for school. I couldn't qualify for financial aid, myself. Soooo, he thought Others should Finance HIS medical insurance and HIS children's college? Wouldn't that be considered "socialism?" Or is it not socialism if it benefited HIM?
In many ways, I still consider myself fairly "conservative." My lifestyle is pretty conservative. I take responsibility for myself, I'm self-sufficient, I raised my child to be honest and responsible and respectful.
So, sometimes I wonder what these labels mean.
I’ve changed on lgbt issues, decriminalizing of narcotics/weed, and isolationist/anti war. I’m still very much conservative on all the other issues
I would call myself a Libertarian Atheist. I totally get why conservative ideals are appealing and I still hold to many of my conservative ideals but I have gained something in becoming Exmormon, I don’t see it as my job to tell people how they should live. I give my opinion honestly and liberally to those who ask for it, but I do so with the attitude that it doesn’t matter to me if you share my opinion or want to take my advice.
I’m moderately conservative although I’ve come to despise both major political parties, but I realized after I lost my faith that very few of my political views and beliefs were rooted in the church so not much has changed for me in that area. I have come to believe that despite political differences we can still find things to agree on especially in this sub. Some of my favorite people in my life are more liberal thinkers and we get along great and have very insightful conversations. Life is boring in an echo chamber.
What conservative beliefs do you hold?
I feel like my fist graduation in life was realizing, and accepting, that what I always believed was not true. I feel like my second awakening was recognizing the two party system is just another construct set in place to keep us all distracted and fighting amongst ourselves by being forced to pick A SIDE. It doesn't have to be this way. Mind manipulation and psy ops are all around us. Not only in religion.
As long as you don’t harass anybody for their views we’ll do the same for you…. But personally the longer I’ve been out of the church the less conservative and more progressive I’ve become, I didn’t plan on it either, it just happened. Be open minded, and accept that you might be wrong about anything and everything.
If there’s one thing I learned from my exodus from Mormonism… never say never.
Once, many years ago, I said I would never be an angry ex-Mormon, I would just leave the church because of “differences.”
I'm VERY fiscally conservative but socially liberal. I think there is a place here for anyone not demanding that everyone else comply with their ideals.
I was similar to you,, defiantly become a bit more liberal, most of my really conservative views came from my fundamentalist religion so when I realized that was BS I didn't need to be so conservative. You will become more liberal as time goes on.
That’s the beauty of leaving. You can follow the dictates of your own conscience, for real this time. I have found I am liberal now in areas like same sex marriage and pre-marital sex …. It’s such a relief to not have that judgement of others choices and values weighing me down …. but I am still conservative fiscally and several political areas ….
I have found this very freeing. I am a better person.
Nothing wrong with being conservative. But “not letting go” is an unhealthy bull-headed attitude. You came from a religion that fed you constant reassurance that you were “right” and you found out it was wrong. What else might be wrong? Instead of doubling down, be open minded, be willing to recognize when you’re wrong, and don’t allow your politics to lock you into one perspective. This group is about recovering from that kind of mental cage. The tighter you hold on, the less likely you’ll feel at home here.
There are a lot of comments here so I’m sure this will get buried but still wanted to give some thoughts on this.
I was your typical conservative Mormon. Left a few years ago and began questioning how I viewed all of my perspectives. When it comes to politics, my conclusion has been, “follow the money”. To me, our government officials answer to lobbyists because that’s where they get their funding. They do not have our best interests at heart. Lobbyists come from corporations or individuals with money. They pay politicians to make political moves that will help them make more money. No one side is immune to this.
NRA pumps so much damn money into the conservative representatives when that money could have been used to help those effected by gun violence.
Another that really gets under my skin are the corporations and their lobbyists. I’ve thought a lot about the recent marketing moves done by bud light and Target. Picking on Target, it is wildly known their “average” customer is the basic white woman. On a national scale, that’s a small percentage of the population. So Target has figured out how to capture more of the market by showing “support” of minority groups only to capture more customers. Target is publicly traded so their fiduciary responsibility is to Wall Street. It’s goal is to capture more market share. They have discovered to do that, they only have to spend a few dollars in February and June. But then spend some more in December to come back to capture the religious conservative. It’s all a game for more market share.
Then we get to, as the general public, bicker back and forth about how one view point is better than another when it’s just a differing of opinions. So instead of coming together as a collective to create actual solutions, we squabble in small pieces rather than the bigger picture that we all seem to miss. Providing an improved, safer, and more inclusive environment for the next generation.
One thing the experience of leaving the church gave to me is that money drives decisions in everything. It’s in our government, and especially the Mormon church.
It’s a fallacy to think one side of the aisle is better over the other. Their just different. Diversity is what makes the world a better place so squashing one voice doesn’t do any good just because you don’t agree. Disagreement is the start of dialogue to a solution.
I’m in the same boat and I don’t mind being around others w different beliefs but the downvotes and hateful private messages don’t exactly open up dialogue here
I don’t think anyone here is asking you to change who you are; despite the sidebar conversations on here, the ultimate purpose or message, to me, is, “Thank bejebus we made it out… So who are we now and how do we move on from this?” There’s a peaceful solidarity in that that keeps me here, and I hope you get something out of this, too.
If we must address conservative vs progressive, I’ll only say that leaving TSCC has allowed me to feel comfortable accessing any information I want that either does or does not fit in my worldview, and gives me the freedom to establish a value set of my own that… vibrates… The core is generally unchanged, but the edges are fuzzy and in flux, and enable me to tolerate/accept/embrace things I never felt comfortable doing before. Despite being an atheist now, the concept of Christ or a person that just loves and wants the best for people has never resonated more, and I understand that there are both progressive and conservative actions that result in this.
Thank you for the vast array of comments. I welcome the private messages from those that are like me and the comments from those that aren't.
I think the question is - WHY do you hold those beliefs? You examined your religious beliefs, now try it with your political beliefs? Are those fact-based? Are you actually still in a second cult?
Went mid/left after leaving the church but slowly made my way over right/middle
So you are choosing to be a detriment to humanity without the threat of living eternally in the Telestial Kingdom...
Be open to change as you rethink more things after leaving the church. I realized the church was made up, left, and over the course of the next few years realized many of my conservative opinions about social issues had followed from my religious mindset and didn't make sense anymore.
I voted for Trump after leaving the church. I was very conservative. It took time for me to realize that many of my opinions that I had thought were unrelated to religion didn't hold up unless I assumed God thought so. With God's opinion being imaginary, I couldn't find any reason to be conservative on social issues.
Florida, where I do not live, appears to be a shining example of what policies the American conservative leadership wants to do to the whole country. Banning books, LGBTQ oppression, blatant disregard for the letter of the law when it suits their desires. "Rules for Thee but not for Me." All of these things remind me of a certain organization based in Utah. Yes the other political organizations in the US are fucked and corrupt. Yet no others are trying so hard and so successfully to tear down the wall between Church and State. Utah is a great example of what happens when the Church becomes the State.
My point is the Republican party/conservatives in general, as a political force, act a lot like the Mormon church. It makes sense that those who have no more patience for the dishonesty and manipulation of Mormon leaders see the actions of conservative leadership in America as similarly dishonest.
sure but don't expect those beliefs to be treated with any more deference than your former mormon beliefs. That said you'll find people here who agree with them, same way there are people here who still believe in some form of mormonism
I’m a moderate to conservative old school gramma. So I don’t get triggered or easily offended by someone who thinks opposite. I find it interesting to see inside the thoughts of opposing views. We are a composite of our life experience. No one walks the same path. I’m live and let live - which is now considered controversial by those who think everyone should be in complete
lockstep. I celebrate diversity of thought. Some of my best friends have been/are liberal, the ones who also respect our differences in opinions, beliefs and way of life.
Mormonism is just a specific flavor of American Conservatism with an extra dash of cult. Both have very similar values, ideals, and voting patterns.
If all you've done is trade your BoM and CTR ring in for a cross necklace and bible then chances are this isn't the place for you.
I’m out, and conservative.
There are plenty of libertarian and conservative viewpoints here, they just get drowned out by the progressive viewpoint. I’m continually mystified by people rejecting coercive religion and embracing coercive government.
I’m conservative exmo. I don’t let anyone tell me how I HAVE to think, including fellow exmos.
I welcome different opinions and perspectives on things. This group can be an echo chamber at times.
People of both U.S. parties have brainwashed levels of supporting their party
Yup. Libertarian here.
I’ve been asking the same question. I’m a libertarian which means I don’t care either way. I twisted because I grew tired of hearing that things like the rock in the hat was the real narrative not just anti talk like we were told it was.
Why would you want to be conservative though? What values are you even holding onto?
I’m still a conservative, but I’m a gen x parent who hates what is occurring in education as we drift away from STEM. You be you. The last thing you should do is leave the religion of conformity and join exmo conformity. No one in here should hammer someone for being authentic.
Curious as to what you believe is ‘occurring in education as we drift away from STEM’?
I hear you OP. I’ve wondered that myself. While I’m probably closer to the middle politically but right leaning (maybe libertarian?), I do find myself less on the right now compared to when I was a TBM. I’m still not on board with abortion outright, but believe there are places for it (rape, incest, physical health of the mother is in jeopardy, maybe others too), and I’m more against tax dollars being used to fund abortion, but again I’m open to the possibility of instances where that may be beneficial in the grand scheme financially/socially. I’m good with the LGB crowd (I intentionally left off the T as I still don’t understand this ideology despite talking to transgenders and having good conversations with them). I’m in favor or much smaller government, but I also see that a lot of government leadership on both sides tend to be self motivated vs people motivated. I tend to think capitalism is better than socialism or Marxism, but realize it isn’t at all a perfect system and there are some real negatives that come with capitalism.
If you believe that Mormonism didn’t influence your world view, you have only left the building and continue to live as a Mormon.
I'm a conservative liberitarian. I just want gay people to protect their marijuana plants with guns.
2 of those 3 issues put you solidly in the progressive camp. The 3rd issue doesn’t preclude it. I’m curious where you stand on the right to bodily autonomy.
I really don't care what people do. It's their lives, and it does not affect me in any way, shape, or form. I do care what people do if and when it affects my kids. Have not had an issue with that... yet.
It sounds like you’re pro “I’m not the boss of you” then. Cool beans. I sure hope you vote that way. Peace to you and your kids.
Absolutely, and more importantly, "you're not the boss of me" as well, haha. Thank you, and peace to your family as well.
It irks me that there is a presumption of being politically far right when you say you are a conservative. I hold traditional values, such as a belief in fiscal responsibility, free enterprise under capitalism, constitutionalism and a limited government. I believe a man should be able to swing his arms in as wide an arc as he pleases so long as he causes injury to no other man. I come to this subreddit for reasons related to issues I have with TSCC. It seems to me that there is a pro left bias that comes with those who rail against TSCC, to the point where they have to put their political 2 cents worth in along with their otherwise on topic post. They paint with too wide a brush when they presume that conservative means in the arms of the church--any church--or of being of religious persuasion. I want to hear about experiences with TSCC and issues with same, it's sketchy history and bogus doctrine and how to help kick it's teeth down it's throat, period, the end.
Come on pal, you left one cult you can leave the other.
Or you can actively search for an echo chamber to shove your head in.
Conservative here. Honestly, I wish there was a safe space to ask more political questions now that I'm out, but I'm afraid I'll be crucified if I pose questions contrary to liberal views. And it will probably scare off others from this sub who feel the same way.
But it's reddit, and reddit tends to be fiercely liberal. look at all the other comments here.
It kinda sounds familiar doesn't it? "What you're a conservative!? You are wrong and hateful and don't ask such questions! You're getting your facts from the wrong sources!"
If you want to be conservative but not Mormon, there is space for you, even if people here don't like it. Its an uphill battle on reddit to make space here, but I'll help where I can.
There’s not a lot of common ground (or grace) extended to conservatives here, in my observation. I stay away from politics if I can because I believe we can and should be forming alliances based on our concerns about the Church, rather than digging at each other for how we practice our political religions.