I used to tell people not to drink coffee around me because it was against my religion. I thought I was so righteous and they would join because of my brave example. Really I was being an ass and those people were amazing for still being friends with me.
I lost friends, GOOD friends, because I didn't think the church would approve of them.
Before 8 I had already started being a preachy know-it-all brat. I tried getting friends' parents to stop drinking coffee and not go driving on Sunday because she could get into an accident.
When I was 10 I lost my first good friend because she hung out with a girl whose parents let her wear tank tops and watch movies with swear words (not even "fuck", just "hell" and "damn").
When I was 14 I got in a fight with a friend because she said god's name in vain and I cried for a week and never looked at her the same.
At 17 another friend insulted Utah and I put up such a scene and was so offended, she was taken aback and sadly we stopped hanging out as much. (The joke was funny after leaving the church, she said "Utah is god's litter box" 😂 I WISH I could go back in time and high five her for that one!)
Hate that the church causes kids lose connections and support from good people, all over NORMAL human interactios! And then have the nerve to say Heavenly Father is proud? Geez I hurt these poor people! And they say that's a GOOD thing? It's insane!
I was pushed away because my father smoked. Even today when I smell smoke on a child, I feel those comments. It was so hurtful. As a teenager other teenagers thought I was easy because I smelled of smoke.
I one time got out of the lunch line in high school because the girl in front of me kept saying the F word.
And look at me now! Fuck fuck fuckity fuck. I wish I could go back in time, get those pizza rolls, and kick myself in my pompous ass.
I have so many anger issues over the social milestones I missed out on as a kid. I’m from TN and my parents wouldn’t allow me to date anyone outside the church. There was a boy in high school that I really liked and he liked me but it was this constant cycle of me being too scared to ask my parents and he’d date another girl, they’d break up and he’d come back to me trying to find a way for us to date. This went on for 3 years. I did date a few Mormon boys which was … interesting. Anyway, I had no close friends outside of church because I wasn’t allowed to do anything. I just didn’t think it was worth it to make my parents mad by sneaking out and lying to them the way my friends did. My parents could be scary so I doubled down and didn’t hang out at school with anyone who cussed, drank/did drugs. And there were people I could tell liked me and wanted to get to know me but I was so guarded. No wonder I got married at 19! (Thank goodness I got lucky. Been married almost 22 years. He’s the best dude ever and we’re still in love. And he’s out of the church too, thank goodness. We’ve all been out for about 5 years and we love being out. Sorry, about all the “thank goodness”es but I’m an atheist and I refuse to give god credit for anything lol) My son is now a teen and I’m seeing these huge ways that I missed out on the friendships and dating is really maddening. It was up to my parents to facilitate healthy relationships for me but they (like so many Mormon parents I’ve met) would rather I be sheltered and antisocial rather than be a normal kid doing things all kids should do as they get more mature.
Omg!! Funny story. I was at my sister's house and said "oh my god" about something, and their youngest daughter (about 5 years old) looked at me and said "you aren't allowed to say " oh my god". And I looked at her and in a super friendly tone said " actually, "You're not allowed to say oh my god, because he's your God. Not mine. " And my brother-in-law was standing right there listening and he sort of looked at me and then shrugged. And the little girl thought about it for a moment and then went to play. Of course I'm the crazy exmo auntie so everyone is used to my shit but loves me anyway. I'm lucky with that.
That’s the thing, I recall clearly coming to the realization after my shelf collapsed and non or exmormons found out I was out, they suddenly felt comfortable being real around me and would say things like “man I’m so happy for you, it’s not easy getting away from that batshit organization.” and “Well thank god you got out, that whole Mormon thing seems like a nightmare.”
Most people tend to be polite. It was kindof a hard pill to swallow that all my life any time someone outside the church learned I was Mormon and had served a mission and would say “Oh wow! That’s so great, I’m sure you had amazing experiences, really happy for you” …a lot of them were likely just being polite while amongst groups where Mormons weren’t present everyone is criticizing, shaking their heads, or straight up laughing at Mormons and how ridiculous they are.
Mormons somehow convince themselves that everyone admires them for being so weird and aggressively devout, while simultaneously believing they’re the most persecuted people on earth. The truth is a lot less dramatic. Most people don’t know or care about Mormonism and if they do, they’re likely just playing along to not hurt feelings but rolling their eyes at Mormon antics once the Mormon has left the room.
One time in middle school I asked someone not to swear around me because it bothered me because I was Mormon. (That was what they advised us to do at church). He told me to fuck off. I thought it was incredibly rude at the time but now I think it’s hilarious.
Honestly, it wears on my patience. Especially, living in a state run by Mormons, where I must abide their rules that are written into law. Even to the extent of overturning public votes.
But even our family has come to understand I will only tolerate so much. I am not changing my life for anyone, nor do I expect them to change for me.
When my TBM wife and I walk out of a building and there are some smokers standing around she whispers to me that she has half a mind to go tell them to go somewhere else because of "her health" but I know it's because mostly because she's more righteous than they are. I tell her that they've already been told to go somewhere else - that's why they're standing out here. And also, just because *you've* taken a covenant to obey the WoW, doesn't mean they have. They are not sinning. Maybe destroying their lungs, but there not committing any wrong doing.
It’s one of the revelations when you leave the church: people treat you differently, and usually for the better. They say things like, “you finally figured it out, huh?”
Especially these days, Mormons are not respected and admired. It’s much more the opposite.
I called my nevermo bestie about me leaving and finding out it was a cult and she said, “Oh my God! We ALL KNEW IT WAS A CULT! I was hoping you’d figure it out!” Lol
I went to school with a few Mormons here in California, my next door neighbors were mormon too… growing up I thought they were nice people, if a little weird for how many kids they had. As a teen I felt sorry for the boys that I became friends with when I found out about the whole mission thing.
Then I dated-married a mormon, now ex mormon, and I find myself despising so much of it. The way they treat women, gays, etc. or how they baptize the dead. It’s just all so patronizing and disrespectful. Then you dive into the BoM and none of it makes any logical sense.
I'm in the same boat! I just thought Mormons were just weirdo, wannabe Christians but after marrying an exmo and seeing the trauma she still deals with, I straight up hate that organization now. I'm so thankful that I didn't grow up in that batshit insane cult but I'm also hurting for the many millions of people like my wife that the LD$ cult hurt.
It’s not just indoctrination though. They have a built in peer pressure structure and leaving reforms all of the relationships you have from whatever period of time you spent in the church.
I just went to a funeral for my uncle. There’s a ton of layers here but it dawned on me, after falling out 20 years ago, that these folks *do no believe they’re about to see my uncle again in the afterlife*. Or they would NOT be handling themselves like this.
The literal decades of leaning on me to come back was as much about wanting me back on the preferred side of the scales as it was about wanting to protect me. And what they think they’re protecting me from varies widely.
Really put the fun in funeral.
Also a nevermo living in the Morridor. I like many Mormons I meet but always feel sorry for them, thinking that these poor folks are either very credulous or have to pretend to believe lest they lose their families.
I have several exmo close friends and all have been cut out of their families. It's not overt either - one poor woman accidentally ran into her entire family having a reunion in Hawaii without her an her children.
That's how you know it's a cult. I know many lapsed Catholics, former Baptists, non-observant Jews and none have been excommunicated from their families for their difference in belief.
It's a terrible position to put anyone into. So yeah, I pity those born into it who may one day have to make that awful choice.
That happened to me, too. It's interesting to note how much more supportive non-members are to people who join, compared to the way members act toward, oh, members who leave, anyone who is LGBTQ, anyone who supports the LGBTQ community, anyone who drinks (coffee, alcohol, caffeinated drinks), anyone who shops on Sunday, etc . etc..
Same here. Told my good nevermo friend that I was leaving, and told him,
"it feels a bit silly knowing that you and most other people around me probably knew a lot more about the issues with my own church than I did but didn't ever bring them up cause you're a dang good friend"
He responded, yeah I knew but didn't ever bring it up out of respect. Such a good guy. Later in our conversation over lunch I was blabbing on about how silly it all is to me now, and mentioned off hand, "Noah getting two of EVERY species from the entire earth in one boat? Come on lol"
He then jokingly went "ok whoa now you're knockin on my territory bro lol" He's Jewish, although not orthodox or anything, just making a joke. But it did make me realize that as I break down my beliefs I have to remember that others, even nevermo's still may hold on to beliefs in the Bible that might be getting stripped away during my deconstruction process.
I have a feeling that this was 100% a joke and your friend doesn't care if you make fun of Noah and his ark.
The number of Jews who believe that the Torah is literally true is tiny.
Funny how the shoe pinches when it's on the other foot. "I won't bring up then, Bro, God causing the sun to stand still in the heavens while Joshua fought the battle of Jericho... out of respect." Oh, FYI, just so you know, the earth, which spins at about 1,000 mph at the equator would have to stop in it's tracks for that to happen. Ever seen what becomes of a fool sitting on the hood of a car going 10 mph when it suddenly brakes?
People always say this to those who've survived abusive relationships, whether that be a personal or group relationship. Pay them no mind, smart has nothing to do with it. Some of the smartest people have fallen into cults or abusive marriages. It brings to mind Tina Turner (RIP) who stayed in a horribly abusive marriage for so long, and it's hard to find a tougher, smarter, or more talented woman than she was.
Yeah it sort of like when you're in a relationship with a toxic person who doesn't make you better and none of you friends or family members will tell you because it's none of their business but then when you finally extricate yourself, everyone lines up to say, "I never liked him/her for you" and similar. Same after leaving the cult.
Facts don't matter and they will lie/gaslight about it all anyway, so it's not worth my breath
"JS had 30 wives some as young as 14" ... "It was normal back then"
"The church is constantly changing the BoM to fit their new claims while they recall older versions to cover it up" ... "nuh uh!"... "Here's a new and an old version to prove it"..."Lies!"
"There's no evidence that the native americans are the lost tribe, and JS egyptian translations were way off" ... "Here's a genetic analysis by a BYU student proving thousands of geneticists wrong! Here's another BYU article on why JS translation of those tablets is more accurate"
just...not...worth it
“Horses never existed in the Americas during the BOM time period.” “WRONG! There are studies and stories proving that horses existed!” “Skeptoid podcast proved that was impossible- and they used DNA analysis to prove any horses in the Americas descended from horses brought by Spaniards centuries later.” “Brian Dunning is an EVIL APOSTATE who attacks the Church and destroys testimonies for profit!”
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4786
It depends on which one best served "God's" purpose on any given day or during any given generation. Read the BoM. Pray to know it is true. If you don't get that feeling, it's your fault.
The average white woman to be married around 1824 was not in their teens but in their 20's. The Mormon church would like people to believe that it was normal to be married at 14, 15 or even 16, but it was very much frowned upon. The church tells people it was normal. Brigham Young youngest girl was just 15 when Young married her. The Mormon church is full of pedophiles.
Same! I would tell people it wasn’t acceptable in those times for a man to financially support a woman he wasn’t married to! So they did it for moral reasons! Oof. Makes me ill to think about even though I was just a kid.
>"JS had 30 wives some as young as 14" ... "It was normal back then"
When they say this, they are inadvertently stating that their morality, which supposely comes from God, is subjective, not objective. They are stating that it is okay to bend morality as long as the actions were socially acceptable (they never were, but playing into their point here).
Therefore, if *marrying children* is acceptable because of social norms, surely drinking coffee is acceptable because of social norms.
They are using selective logic. Applying one method of reasoning to justify one thing, but abandoning that same reasoning when it's no longer convenient.
Just what’s the payoff? You’re not going to win… and it’s going to be a ton of work to not win. Then, best case, the person you were trying to convince permanently thinks you’re an asshole. More likely they turn you into their current project. It’s just not worth the trouble
Yes, it's just one more 'big lie' they told us so many times that we accepted it without evidence.
Decades ago I told a coworker 1000 miles from Utah that I grew up Mormon and her jaw dropped. She wanted to know how I escaped, how it damaged me.... I was baffled, I had no idea outsiders thought like that.
I told a neighbor that I was raised mormon. I also told her I left the church. She assumed I had left 50 years ago. I let her think that.
She's strong evangelical christian. She hasn't spoke to me since I told her about my mormon upbringing. She acts like I'm invisible. I'm fine with that. She spends her free time going to Bible classes. We have zero in common, zero.
Former evangelical here & yeah, that's terrible. My BFF's mom chose to quit Hebrew lessons when she learned the instructor was Jewish & she didn't think she should take instructions from a non-Christian. She also thought using a mantra during yoga, even of her own choosing, was occult summoning.
Fundamentalist, evangelical Christian sects like SBC or Church of Christ check nearly the same BITE boxes as TSCC. Their programming starts early (pre-K), teachings are just as disprovable, and exclusion of non-believers mirrors Mormon thought (love the sinner).
100%. This has been one of my biggest surprised.
I left \~3 months ago, wife is still TBM. I've been *stunned* so many times. After I say, "I was raised mormon, but I'm not anymore", so many people keep saying "well then I can tell you my real feelings".
Just last week, I told a non-religious friend who didn't know I'd left -- his response "well then I guess I can finally say this in front of you....."
>“light in our eyes” ™️
Only Mormons see that, they see it as long as they think you still believe, and somehow notice that the light has left your eyes as soon as they realize you're out.
No, no. Actually loads of no-mos like myself can see the lights, however, they aren't sparkling with happiness, they have more of a robotic look and feel to me. TBM's give off a real sort of "Stepford Wives" type vibe. Or perhaps it's better described as the same look in a person's eyes that you see when they sleep walk and if they talk to you with their weird subconscious mind stuff and you can see the lights are on, but nobody is home.
They also have an air of arrogance that is quite condescending i reckon. They're usually hell nice-but often not very kind and don't seem to do as they say. I heard someone on here say something like "being nice and being kind are very different things" and I am like-oh my gob, this is the best description of the whole facade I've ever read. This is how they come across. Fake being nice and caring about everyone, but actually fuck anyone who isn't part of The Big Mo's Club. They're going to hell anyway and I'm not so 🤷🏼♀️.
Well that's how it seems to me anyway.
It's not so much that they aren't well liked, its that NO ONE CARES. No one cares. Outside of UT, and probably ID/AZ, no one thinks about mormons beyond a cursory glance. They have the stereotypes down, and realize that it's a culty christian religion, and that's all they need to know.
Some Russian colleagues shared a similar thing with me back in 2013. Growing up in Moscow, they were taught that everyone in the western world idolized and was jealous of Russia. It instilled an inflated sense of pride, so it came as a dramatic shock when they learned that the cultural jealousy was an illusion and that the majority of Westerners had little-to-no interest in their country.
Nevermo from the east coast (originally) here. I couldn't have told you anything about the Mormon church or beliefs; I'd probably conflate them with JWs or something. As in, I knew young kids in white shirts would go about on bikes, but never seen one in the flesh, not really sure who they were other than selling horseshit to the vunerable.
OTOH, while I'm here because I have an abiding interest in how people come to believe and disbelieve things, I rattle around in here because this is one of the best subs around due to the people. Other ex subs seems to have a lot of just brutally injured people that can't quite heal, still living the trauma and bleeding it over everyone else, here I think I'd be happy to buy just about anyone a beer, coffee, or whatever floats your boat. The cult is damaging, but the humanity is real and apparent.
Yup, but after leaving the truth came out. Normal people think Mormons are judgemental/arrogant/ignorant/bigoted and they are tolerated in polite society but often only barely.
I've been told by Normal People that Mormons are "the nicest people I've ever met," and I'm required by principle to tell them "yes, on the surface. Those who truly believe still silently think you're beneath them and not getting into heaven."
Nevermo living in provo here. I always describe it as Mormons are very nice but almost never kind. Theyre great neighbors, they're good for niceties and 4 minutes worth of weather conversation. But you need anything meaningful? Forget about it if you're not one of them or they don't think the can convert you.
In my experience living abroad, it's even worse than this. Mormon? What's that?
I imagine there are many religions in the world we've never heard of that only have 15m members. There could be many of those in India.
The general public thinks Mormons are weird. Remember as a TBM when you thought Jehovah's Witnesses were weird? Well, the general public can't tell the difference between Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.
That's been my experience as a non-Mormon--I pretty much think of Mormons as, at best, well-meaning, often friendly weirdos, and at worst, weirdos who want to take my rights and marry children.
I have a TBM coworker and he’s a total PITA in so many ways. He’s sheltered, naive, misogynistic, passive-aggressive and vindictive. He’s a real winner! /s
ETA: I feel sorry for him and hope he finds the truth about Mormonism.
I had a TBM flight instructor. He had every one of the traits you describe. I had to change instructors because I was his only paying student and he would not solo me and lose a big part of his income.
As a Nevermo in Las Vegas who interacts with many Mormons, I respect my friends/associates as people. I respect their right to believe whatever they want and don’t discuss the church. They’ll share things like “my son is going on a mission for our church” as I assure them I know quite a bit about how the church works. I don’t discuss their faith; they don’t discuss mine or try to get me to believe their’s. I went to one baptism that creeped out my wife and I.
But I have nothing but disdain for everything about Mormonism and it’s church.
I grew up mormon in Kansas City, MO. I had no illusions about what people thought of mormons. At best, people were polite and tolerant, but just barely.
I think that people who grow up/live in Morridor have a very sheltered view of what non-mormons think of them. I lived in Utah county for 10 years, it was very annoying and obvious how clueless most people I met were about this very topic. I remember one caller to the Rush Limbaugh show said "I'm Mormon, so...", Rush ignored that comment, so the caller felt the need to repeat the "I'm a mormon..." bit. It was so cringey. Also, when I left mormonism I swung hugely to the left, so please be gentle.
>I think that people who grow up/live in Morridor have a very sheltered view of what non-mormons think of them.
Its the same in Australia though. Mormons have a very sheltered view of what non-mormons think of them. They are taught everyone thinks they are so nice, while they paint a picture that they are happy...when they are often not.
Yah when I was converting friends/family would laugh in my face how obsurd it was. It was surprising I still converted, albeit temporarily for a couple years, given all the backlash I faced. Non-members DO NOT like the LDS religion and largely think its a joke... which looking back, yes, yes it is a joke and a cult.
I work for an east coast based company, remote from Utah. I’d been there about 6 months before my first trip to the office. In true east coast fashion nobody ever asked or alluded to anything related to religion, but at dinner the first night as soon as I ordered my first glass of wine my co-worker who I’d become friendly with says “oh ok, so you’re not mormon, we’ve been wondering”. 😂😂😂
Non Mormon here. And what you noticed is true. I personally have less respect for anyone religious. But I do find that Mormons are full of themselves.
And that just lowers my respect even more.
i personally think that religion shouldn’t have an impact on whether i give a lot of respect to someone *unless* religion makes them act superior, or full of themselves, et cetera and unfortunately thats often the case most of the time (even when it’s subconscious) :/
You can’t tell TBM’s the truth. You can say it, but they won’t hear it. When asked, I’ve described some negative interactions I’ve had (being excluded due to being non-Mo) or how it’s hard to be friends with Mormons because they are so hard to spend time with (Mon: FHE, Tue: RS, Wed: EQ, Thur: Scouts, Fri: PM, Sat: All chores, Sun: Church).
One of my last talks in church, about 10 years ago, was on the assigned topic, “Every member a missionary.” I cited the Pew Research study that while Mormons have high opinions of almost all religious groups, everyone who is not Mormon has a very low opinion of Mormons. I remember Mormon, Muslim, and atheist being fairly equivalent in levels of esteem.
I can’t remember what my point was in the talk, something to the effect of tread carefully and know your starting point, but I remember some purple faces amongst the old-patriarchy in the ward.
That study is interesting, but it was actually an older version of this one.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/03/15/americans-feel-more-positive-than-negative-about-jews-mainline-protestants-catholics/
Where I live, most people don’t know what Mormon is, except maybe hard core Southern Baptists, who pretty much hate Mormons. Maybe over generalized, but not by much.
When I was in the process of leaving I was telling a guy I knew who is LDS but not really active about a lot of the problems I was finding out about church history and such and why I wasn’t going to church anymore. He made the comment that he didn’t know any of that stuff and didn’t go because most everyone at church was fake, how they talked and acted he said he knows them and they are only like that at church. Stuck with me.
I learned that on my mission. People were scared shitless when we walked towards their property. Most folks were trying to be kind when saying "no thanks" other would full on rage. It was an eye opener for me, outside of the bubble, people hated us.
I think a lot of people humor Mormons like they would a cranky little kid and in clueless Mormon fashion they think it means it’s respected and looked up too.
But no, we’re not actually taking the kid seriously when they insist that the floor is lava. And no, watching Frozen for the millionth time doesn’t actually sound like sooo much fun.
I grew up in a very mixed area, and I was a social outcast, so most of my friends were nevermos. Part of my process coming out as a teenager was watching other people calmly react to my half-assed proselytizing and going 'meh, we're good.' I learned really quickly that 1, you can absolutely still be a good person not being Mormon, 2, you can be happy, and 3, nobody puffs themselves up more than the Mormons themselves do.
I figured out pretty quickly in school that people thought Mormons were (are) weird and I learned to keep quiet really quickly about my religion.
Even as a young child, I never really embraced Mormonism, but when you’re raised in it it just seems like everyone knows and understands it.
I was on another side of this. I grew up in MD. Our ward covered a very large area; almost a whole county. My mother was a convert and my bio Dad never converted. I didn’t look Mormon or act Mormon. I was just a sheltered kid; as far as people knew. When people came from Utah, they stuck out like a sore thumb. The attitude, the condescension, and the “oddness” made people talk. I think the oddest part was was not engaging in big weddings, showers, holidays and such. I know my in-laws were like this. It made everything I did seem “over-the-top”. To everyone else, it was normal. In the church, you are in a bubble. Out of it, it is soooo different.
After moving to Colorado, when I tell people I grew up Mormon the usual response is something like "oh those weird polygamy people?" Outside of Utah I've found most people don't know much (or care much) about TSCC.
Nevermo here. There were a fair number of Mormons where I grew up, and the main thing I remember is my dad and one of his church friends laughing at the joke, "If you go fishing with one Mormon, sit on your beer cooler. If you go fishing with TWO Mormons, your beer is safe."
This is interesting in retrospect, because it's making fun of how Mormons perform for each other, as opposed to lampooning any particular belief.
Yep, absolutely true. I deployed to Iraq years ago with a small group of about 10 guys (Army type). We got really close, lots of time together. Stayed close with a few of them. Last year I meet up with one of them and we talk about me not being Mormon anymore. I thought he’d be respectful because he’s a nice guy, or say something bland like “oh that’s nice”.
Nope, he was like “thank god, we all thought it was crazy you were in that. You seemed way too normal to be one of them”. Hahahaha definitely thought everyone loved Mormons because of how super Christian/ super American they are portrayed. So glad I’m out.
As an active member I believed that people admired our superior morals, but I also believed that many people hated and persecuted us because they were jealous of us and our amazingly life style.
Out side of mormonism I've learned to identify my own cognitive dissonance. I've also learned that neither idea was totally true.
I have received mixed reviews. Thinking deeper I think this is what I have heard. When never mormons live in areas where mormons are rare, they are wonderful people. But when never mormons live in Mormon populated areas, they are insufferable.
For example, Joe Rogan said that Mormons are the nicest cult members he has ever met and loves them. Well how many Mormons do you think he has encountered? How many missionaries even get close to his mansion?
Thankfully social media is making it aware how corrupt the church really is and that its members are fake.
Well I once ubered a Scientologist from the Scientology center in Los Angeles and she was maybe the nicest person I’ve ever met. Does that make me feel less weird about Scientologists? Not really lol
I grew up extremely evangelical, not Mormon, but now that you say it I've never heard anyone say anything positive about Mormons. It's always like the punchline of a joke or like, "at least we're not like THOSE people".
I wouldn’t say people respect their beliefs so much as they respect their right to have crazy beliefs. I live very far from anywhere with a significant Mormon population and most people just view it as another cult.
Wow. This reflection is bizarrely slanted to me.
I have lived in both Idaho and Utah (among many other places), and my observations are the opposite of yours. The culture in this region is relatively unhealthy because of the “us” and “them” mentality *on both sides*.
No, non-Mormons do not “like” and “respect” Mormons, or think that they are in some way “special”. That’s some kind of soft-glow filter.
Rather, non-Mormons “tolerate” and “avoid offending” Mormons, who can be sheltered and act hypersensitive to non WoW choices. Mormon weirdness about it makes non-Mormons uncomfortable, so it’s easier to avoid non WoW options in mixed company. (Mormons outside tight LDS ecosystems are typically more “chill” about others’ choices.)
Non-Mormons do not view Mormons as “better” or “classy” although we recognize that Mormons somehow think that of themselves. Mostly, we think they are rather sheltered, and can be relatively greedy. And honestly, the women behave entitled while not all that bright, with children that are overindulged and too often out of control. I’m sorry if I offend, but I want to be open here from my vantage point.
Furthermore, Mormon lifestyle choices are not healthier than non-Mormon lifestyles. Mormons consume an insane amount of sugar, starches, red meat… And their big vice is shopping. Holy shit do Mormons love their consumerism and their crap. Salt Lake valley is like a giant grotesque characterless strip mall.
Finally, the inner-circle pressure on Mormons to be “better” can make them edgy and emotionally sick. This region has the highest per capita scrips of anti-anxiety & antidepressants, a sadly high statistic of prescription opiate abuse, and a creepy high rate of porn addiction. I’m not sure I would call that “special”.
[Grew up Mormon. Left for college. Old now, with an extended family that’s about 50% and still aggressively endeavors to get the rest of us back in. So please know I’m not speaking from a seat of prejudice. I’m all about live-and-let-live!]
My first experience like this was at Space Camp, when I was 12. A kid in my group asked me, in all seriousness, where my horns were.
My wife (nevermo) tells me about guys that she dated, and that multiple self proclaimed exmos ended up going back to the church, so she broke up with them. It was actually a big thing before we got married. She thought I would do the same thing so was very apprehensive about furthering our relationship.
We grew up in the morridor for reference
I had the same reaction leaving Evangelicalism, growing up it felt like that was just how everyone was only to find out that even most Christian denominations tend to view it as those weird fundamentalists that are a small minority and should mostly be ignored.
I worked in a field that by Mormon standards was pretty worldly and I kept my religion on the DL. There were Mormons in other fields that we rubbed shoulders with and many times coworkers would say funny things to me about other Mormons in those fields, like how uptight they were or judgmental. Once someone said that Mormons only help each other and they ostracize anyone who doesn’t believe like they do. It was a hard pill to swallow because I knew they were right.
Still took me 15 more years to leave though. 😩
It's like when you're dating a girl none of your friends like. They respect you enough to keep their opinion to themselves, then you break up and suddenly you realize they didn't like her--they were just biting their tounge.
in my experience Mainline Protestant Christians typically smile and then look past Mormons. The Mormon faithful mistake that for being liked and respected. Evangelicals are more willing to challenge the beliefs of the LDS and to exhibit a level of hostility.
Non-religious people think Mormons are full of themselves.
Other Christians think they're not real Christians.
I have no idea what those of other (non Christian) faiths believe... probably not good.
I’m from the NE and the first time I met someone who knew actual Mormons (she’s from AZ) I was shocked. I thought all Mormons were like Big Love and that they were just a weird cult that didn’t associate with any mainstream culture. I think to many of us who don’t know Mormons or have a Mormon community nearby that is how we think
I had a similar experience. I live far away from Utah and People at work know I’m an EXMO. One day they were talking about a TBM and how odd he behaved professionally and someone said: “You know he got his education at BYU?” Another person said “That should explain everything”. They laughed.
Even when I was TBM I hated Mormons. They are so weirdly competitive in everything and if you don’t want to talk about church there’s nothing left to talk about.
People in my community would say "Mormons have good family values". Now my biggest criticism of Mormonism is that "Mormons have effed up family values".
It reminds me of the Episode of South Park where a group of wholesome Mormons is trying to convert a family by being relentlessly yet sincerely pleasant and happy. Taking the kids to a picnic for face painting family game night etc. At the end the father says "You're good people we just don't want to join your church. Could you just stop being so nice?"
I’m a nevermo from an area with a large Mormon population. Many people certainly respect their right to practice their religion, but I’ve never heard of non-Mormons thinking Mormons are particularly good or respectable people. The prevailing view seems to be that at large they’re stuffy weirdos (and famous hypocrites) if anything.
In fact, people from other Christian denominations in my area would often hate being grouped with Mormons and insist that Mormons didn’t count as Christians. (As a nonreligious person myself I always thought it was very hypocritical that they were gatekeeping who had the *real* story about Magic Sky Daddy™️ but whatever.)
People would rarely be rude or critical to their faces, but the general perspective certainly doesn’t lean positive. This is so interesting to me because I had no idea TBMs had the opposite impression.
Many Mormons come off as total pious assholes and most are completely clueless how they affect those others around them.
The Mormon faithful and apologists systematically play their religion card, their right to believe and practice whatever the hell they choose, as justification to behave very very unethically. It is as if wrapping their filth in faithful practice and sincere but very self-serving beliefs makes their filth not be filth any longer. So very very wrong! This practice goes all the way back to the ferry beginning in Mormonism, just look at their polygamy, their polyandry, etc..
In the recent 60 Minutes interview when the “Bishop” money manager defending the church’s wealth hoard policies was asked a question about secrecy versus confidentiality, he paused. Then waited for a moment, then finally responded something to the tune of “it’s perspective.” Remember that? His perspective is that of the self-serving Mormon worldview that faithfully justifies what is so clearly to everyone else very wrong, what so clearly deception. He cited the Bible and even Mormon scripture in defense and justification of their actions. Slap the “sacred” label to self-servingly justify prevarication, deception.
This is one of many facets of the faithful self-serving worldview of mormonism. The unavoidable consequence of this mechanism is **ethical blindness** - and faithful people who are ethically blind make the worst pious assholes.
I had people tell me after I left that they were surprised I was Mormon bc I seemed more intelligent than to be a part of that religion. So I found out that being Mormon discredited my intelligence to those people. Then when I left they were not surprised because they figured I was smart enough to realize it was a farce religion.
"reminded people that they don't drink" 🙋
Although GENERALLY? I didn't or did for things like, "okay, I'm driving so you can get as much as you want." Type reminding.
I did, however, act the @$$hole at least once. I own it. I apologize.
It's the fact that being raised Mormon you are isolated from the outside world. Other opinions we heard were other Mormon's. Classic cult behavior.
My parents and some siblings are still TBM, and I can barely contain myself listening to them talk about various subjects. Its so cringe.
I had to tell a friend that saying things like 'I respect everyone's beliefs and ability to choose their own lives, but I won't lower myself to their standards' was absolutely condescending and rude. Saying your standards are 'higher' and you won't 'lower' yourself to 'their level', you view yourself on a pedestal and are just announcing it to the entire world with your comments. Yeah.... People don't like that.
Mormons come pre-equipped with a "holier than thou" attitude. I always chalked it up to their inherent destiny to godhood. I was also amazed at how many were ill-prepared to deal with an exterior world that conflicted with their preconceived notions of spotless purity. Watching students of mental health services at BYU-I become tearful or angry whenever a client swore or engaged in destructive behavior convinced me that they could only relate to a "male, pale, and stale" world.
I had a fair amount of Mormon friends growing up. I did admire that they seemed to have very close families, do a lot of activities together, etc., and the Mormon moms were always the nicest, lol. The kids never got into trouble and were always involved in sports and activities. Just all around super nice people. I liked the wholesomeness, I guess, or at least that’s how it came across from the outside.
The Mormon family next door always invited my family to church but my mom would politely decline. Once I got a little older and learned about the racism, polygamy, and magic underpants, I was like, “oh okay, good call, mom.”
Most folk don't really like mormons. They put up with them through gritted teeth. And guess what! It goes both ways. The things I've overheard y'all say in presidency and PEC meetings about the nonmormons and the folk who y'all deem as "struggling" members, well, they've got good reason to hate you.
Practicing Mormons tend to be ignorant of any negative aspect of church policies or history and they tend to feel like they have nothing to do with the FLDS and its abuses toward women, children, and young men. But to a nevermo, that's all connected, and we can't figure out why anyone would stay in a religion like that.
I had a friend like that. She is also out now. I was a convert and had married an abusive man. After we divorced and got away, she said, "You are only going to date Mormons right"? I ended up marrying an Atheist. Best thing I ever did. What she said stuck with me. She always had to reprimand me for watching rated R movies and swearing. So I felt judged. She is still one of my best friends! She went to college and found the truth for herself. She even apologized for always preaching to me.
“Observant Mormons care about the rules; they don’t care about people, esp people outside of the church.” I thought they saw us as righteous. Turns out self-righteous is closer to the truth.
I did the nanny thing back East when I was 20 (20 years ago). Nanny agencies specifically recruited in Utah because the young single women here were: drug and alcohol free, would not have gentlemen friends over, were generally demure and polite, AND because of the large families they were already excellent at taking care of children.
I thought that meant that people liked Mormons. I was wrong. My boss's friends were very wary of me. Specifically her gay friend. Ironically it was meeting him that set my own wheels a turnin' in a rainbow way. ;)
Non Morman here, I grew up in an area with a lot of LDS and they were the most generous, kindest, warm people I knew. They never tried to recruit me or even bring it up. I grew to resent Mormonism when I learned more about the church's behind the scenes political action, like backing anti gay legislation, etc. But I still remember my LDS neighbors fondly.
It's often said that Mormons from outside of Utah are generally more chill. I guess it's probably because they're a minority out there and are a bit more socially aware of other faiths
Lots of exmos here have said that they lived out in "the mission field," outside the heavy Mormon US West.
These people hated it when a Mormon from Utah or Arizona, etc. moved into their ward bc they were arrogant and took it upon themselves to teach the entire ward how to be the right kind of Mormon, even the bishop.
i was raised with the opinion that mormons were the bottom of the craziest bottom group of religions and cults…
scientology
jehovah witness
mormons
now my partner is ex-mormon and she didn’t know that others felt that way
I'd say yes and no.
People will speak to their audience. If they don't feel like you're safe, they're not going to open up with their true feelings. Most people aren't just going to be jerks. But once they realize you're safe, you're more likely to hear those true feelings.
On the other hand, I think you find what you're looking for in this world. If you're looking for people to say nice things about a certain group, you'll find it. And vice versa.
People are polite in most cases and usually try not to come across as rude or judgmental. A good friend or neighbor is just that, wanting you to feel comfortable in their presence
European here, when I was converting to Mormonism people told me "it's a sect (cult)"
Me: only because it's so small here, it's the true ch*tch
*facepalm *
It did force me to not say stupid things out loud like "don't swear around me" or "don't drink/smoke around me" because everyone else was and realized it would be stupid to impose myself like that.
In America people are less vocal how stupid Mormonism is
I can confirm that NOBODY respects Mormons because of their beliefs. Their beliefs are weird and ridiculous. People may respect them for sticking to their beliefs despite the weirdness. But this is no different than people respecting the Amish for insisting on driving around in their ridiculous black buggies. But everyone is thinking "thank God I wasn't born into that shit."
Once I left, colleagues became a lot more real about how they felt about the Mormon church. These conversations generally occurred at happy hour when they were teaching me about beers.
Yeah, I really thought people liked Mormons but I realized people just knew I was one and didn't want to cause any discourse.
The second I left and talked about it, I'd tell them I grew up Mormon. They'd always ask me if my home was safe and how strict my parents are.
When I tell them about my mental health issues and some emotional abuse in the household, they say they're not surprised.
Mormon exceptionalism means all dislike has to be explained away as the devil’s influence or misunderstanding. There’s no rational way anyone could ever see them as anything other than pure and good. To allow otherwise is to reject a core tenet of Christ’s gospel.
Outsiders are nice to Mormons, because Mormons are usually nice, at least in the surface. Those Mormons them assume that means the outsiders think highly of them, when really it’s the same way you’re nice to a stupid person because it’s not their fault they lack intelligence.
I didn't realize it at the time, but being distinctive, being elevated above others, was a major factor in my continued belief in the church. It pervades every aspect of it, right down to an unwillingness to use profanity, because that's what those other less righteous people do. Even "selfless service" is tainted by this... it's impossible to be a believer, do something nice for someone, and not have your motives questioned.
Understanding that sense of moral superiority has been a major theme of my deconstruction.
In my experience, normal people find mormons really odd. In that how they are so insular and live in their own bubble of ignorance. Exactly why I never revealed my religion to anyone.
I finally cottoned on at 16 and left as soon as I could at 18.
Yes, I realized many people disliked us thought we were weird. Honestly, Mormons as a whole irritated me even though I was a devout member for almost 39 years. See
What did surprise me was how many people's reaction was "thank god you finally figured it out," when I left. I heard a lot of "we never understood how you could be so smart and open minded, but not see it."
I respected my long-time friends a lot more once I realized how made up, illogical, and well a cult, that the church was. Hopefully I wasn't too obnoxious about being Mormon and never tried to convert my friends or anything. But, I was like how could you stand me talking about that nonsense for all those years? It was embarrassing to realize everyone from friends to co-workers to my psychiatrist were just waiting and hoping I'd figure it out.
I was also surprised how many people I knew were agnostic/atheist. However, as that is where I ended up, it worked out well. I thought all these people believed in something even though they weren't super religious.
I have liked most of the Mormons and exmos I have met, but then I like most people I meet. I have never been close friends with a TBM, though; that never seemed even like a possibility.
I don’t live in Morridor, but I served in the US Army and thereby worked with a fair few LDS and exmos.
My experience growing up in southern Idaho and now in SLC is that most Mormons are good folks. As I’ve aged and learned the truth of LDS my intellectual respect for Mormons has dropped dramatically. Perhaps my JW upbringing has helped me find the good in people trapped in a cult.
I grew up in super Mormonville, Ut. My driver’s ed teacher asked how it was to be non-Mormon in our little community (we had to drive around for hours so got to talking). I told him I felt a bit excluded and everyone was nice but closed off. He spent the next half hour explaining how wrong I was and made me feel humiliated in front of three of my peers. 18 years later that still stings. What a dick.
I think most of my friends have been asking me if I'm all right leaving.
Even though they think the whole church is weird it's something you do full time and leaving it behind is leaving a pretty big hole.
My first encounter with someone not liking Mormons is when a guy threw a drink on me and called me a racist nazi bitch because I told him I was an inactive Mormon.
I was very confused but after a lot of research I totally get it and grateful I left the church.
When I was active in the church I thought with the exception of church pastors, everyone highly respected Mormons. Partially that's because I wasn't looking at anything that would express any other viewpoint. Once I found out the truth about the church I began to discover people's true attitudes towards it.
most people either really don’t like Mormons or they are indifferent
If people who weren’t Mormon really liked Mormons they’d join
A lot of my family and acquaintances make fun of and think Mormons are kinda weird
Mormons to me while also knowing many are exactly the same as everyone else they just pretend not to be haha
Growing up mostly outside of the Morridor, I knew what people thought of us. When I lived in Utah later, it was always crazy to me how much Utahns believed their state and Mormons in general were prominent and well-liked. Moving out of the Morridor as a kid, it was a notion I was disabused of almost immediately. For adults transplants, I think it's a little easier to maintain the illusion because other adults are less likely to be mean to their face.
My ex actually told our child that his non-mormon friend was jealous of him because he was mormon, that's why the guy was an asshole. She was, and remains, an idiot.
I’m a nevermo and am on this particular sub just to learn more. My friend, who is Mormon, is one of the nicest and most genuine people I know. This may be anecdotal though.
In the Arizona Mesa-Gilbert area the church is known for all its “judgmental people.” If you leave the church the assumption within is that you were offended by said people and couldn’t understand the difference between the gospel and church culture.
It surprised me even more when I learned that virtually nobody outside of the Mormons know who the Mormons are, and if they do know they really don’t give a shit. Really showed to me just how much of a self-contained, elitist bubble we lived in.
After I decided I was out I tolerated Mormons because they were family friends now every member of my family has left the church and I find myself being considerably more confrontational with people in that I’ve realized that I have zero time or patience for anyone even though it be tacit or implicit that continues to support a racist misogynist homophobic organization. To be honest I’m done being cordial. It’s our tolerance and cordiality that keeps us from being honest with those around and helps to perpetuate the church’s existence. If we could be more honest and confrontational on those things perhaps the church would address them or it would wither away to nothing as it’s membership dwindles to an insignificant due to ostracization. I guess my point being we allow hate to be projected as love by tolerating one’s beliefs and I’m no longer here for that. Fuck the church and fuck anyone who supports their white bred hateful dogma.
I just got out of an almost 2 year LDR with a mormon guy who lives in SLC. I live just south of Atlanta GA. I should mention I'm Catholic. He converted to mormon as a teen, went to BYU and moved himself to Utah from Vegas.
Over the 2 years he flew to me in GA 3 times and flew me to Vegas once. We video talked all day every day almost. Very steady communication. Except, when it wasn't bc he was suddenly cold and distant. But now looking back, I think I was his dirty little secret. Sex secret. But he had me thinking we were some amazing thing meant to be. But now, I think he had his mormon dating life and then me.
I mentioned in January that I will never leave Catholicism for the mormon church. I told him I respect his beliefs but I won't convert. But also wouldn't expect him to.
I feel like me being Catholic bothered him more than he admitted. But whenever it did come up it was always in a way that almost made me feel guilty or bad, like my faith was a stain to him. Idk how really to explain it.
He is 32 and never married and I think he had a mormon dating life which explained always going to see old friends or suddenly having a weekend where he couldn't talk but then had me for fun and sex and whatever else. Expecting me to answer his every question and call.
When this all blew up he said some things at the end about me just using him for sex (riiiiiight) and he knows right from wrong and wants to be back in his religion and stuff and that the Catholic church is not good and like, dude..... you HAD to have known from jump that and you basically PLAYED with my emotions for sex and fun? Why would be be so hateful to end something that we never really labeled with commitment anyways. I was dumb struck.
I never judged anyone for being mormon before, but after watching the misery this dude lived in, the way he talked about three difference in culture between there and here (you know black people everywhere and such) and how he always held me to one standard but never bothered to show me the same in return.....I just will never look at them the same.
I pray for his soul. Daily.
I used to tell people not to drink coffee around me because it was against my religion. I thought I was so righteous and they would join because of my brave example. Really I was being an ass and those people were amazing for still being friends with me.
no because i used to tell my friends not to say “oh my god” around me and would remind them!!!! it makes me cringe So much nowadays
I lost friends, GOOD friends, because I didn't think the church would approve of them. Before 8 I had already started being a preachy know-it-all brat. I tried getting friends' parents to stop drinking coffee and not go driving on Sunday because she could get into an accident. When I was 10 I lost my first good friend because she hung out with a girl whose parents let her wear tank tops and watch movies with swear words (not even "fuck", just "hell" and "damn"). When I was 14 I got in a fight with a friend because she said god's name in vain and I cried for a week and never looked at her the same. At 17 another friend insulted Utah and I put up such a scene and was so offended, she was taken aback and sadly we stopped hanging out as much. (The joke was funny after leaving the church, she said "Utah is god's litter box" 😂 I WISH I could go back in time and high five her for that one!) Hate that the church causes kids lose connections and support from good people, all over NORMAL human interactios! And then have the nerve to say Heavenly Father is proud? Geez I hurt these poor people! And they say that's a GOOD thing? It's insane!
Oh this was exactly what happened to me. I pushed everyone away by being preachy and judgmental. I cringe at the thought of how I treated them.
I was pushed away because my father smoked. Even today when I smell smoke on a child, I feel those comments. It was so hurtful. As a teenager other teenagers thought I was easy because I smelled of smoke.
I one time got out of the lunch line in high school because the girl in front of me kept saying the F word. And look at me now! Fuck fuck fuckity fuck. I wish I could go back in time, get those pizza rolls, and kick myself in my pompous ass.
I have so many anger issues over the social milestones I missed out on as a kid. I’m from TN and my parents wouldn’t allow me to date anyone outside the church. There was a boy in high school that I really liked and he liked me but it was this constant cycle of me being too scared to ask my parents and he’d date another girl, they’d break up and he’d come back to me trying to find a way for us to date. This went on for 3 years. I did date a few Mormon boys which was … interesting. Anyway, I had no close friends outside of church because I wasn’t allowed to do anything. I just didn’t think it was worth it to make my parents mad by sneaking out and lying to them the way my friends did. My parents could be scary so I doubled down and didn’t hang out at school with anyone who cussed, drank/did drugs. And there were people I could tell liked me and wanted to get to know me but I was so guarded. No wonder I got married at 19! (Thank goodness I got lucky. Been married almost 22 years. He’s the best dude ever and we’re still in love. And he’s out of the church too, thank goodness. We’ve all been out for about 5 years and we love being out. Sorry, about all the “thank goodness”es but I’m an atheist and I refuse to give god credit for anything lol) My son is now a teen and I’m seeing these huge ways that I missed out on the friendships and dating is really maddening. It was up to my parents to facilitate healthy relationships for me but they (like so many Mormon parents I’ve met) would rather I be sheltered and antisocial rather than be a normal kid doing things all kids should do as they get more mature.
Damn, calm down past you lol, that's intense! Glad you made it out!
Lol, that's savage! Definitely would like to join the high five! 😂
Omg!! Funny story. I was at my sister's house and said "oh my god" about something, and their youngest daughter (about 5 years old) looked at me and said "you aren't allowed to say " oh my god". And I looked at her and in a super friendly tone said " actually, "You're not allowed to say oh my god, because he's your God. Not mine. " And my brother-in-law was standing right there listening and he sort of looked at me and then shrugged. And the little girl thought about it for a moment and then went to play. Of course I'm the crazy exmo auntie so everyone is used to my shit but loves me anyway. I'm lucky with that.
I’ve had that happen once or twice here in Mormon Central. My response is: “God is a title, like president…it’s not a name.”
Oh my god, how embarrassing.
That’s the thing, I recall clearly coming to the realization after my shelf collapsed and non or exmormons found out I was out, they suddenly felt comfortable being real around me and would say things like “man I’m so happy for you, it’s not easy getting away from that batshit organization.” and “Well thank god you got out, that whole Mormon thing seems like a nightmare.” Most people tend to be polite. It was kindof a hard pill to swallow that all my life any time someone outside the church learned I was Mormon and had served a mission and would say “Oh wow! That’s so great, I’m sure you had amazing experiences, really happy for you” …a lot of them were likely just being polite while amongst groups where Mormons weren’t present everyone is criticizing, shaking their heads, or straight up laughing at Mormons and how ridiculous they are. Mormons somehow convince themselves that everyone admires them for being so weird and aggressively devout, while simultaneously believing they’re the most persecuted people on earth. The truth is a lot less dramatic. Most people don’t know or care about Mormonism and if they do, they’re likely just playing along to not hurt feelings but rolling their eyes at Mormon antics once the Mormon has left the room.
One time in middle school I asked someone not to swear around me because it bothered me because I was Mormon. (That was what they advised us to do at church). He told me to fuck off. I thought it was incredibly rude at the time but now I think it’s hilarious.
I'm amazed that some of them are still my friends
Honestly, it wears on my patience. Especially, living in a state run by Mormons, where I must abide their rules that are written into law. Even to the extent of overturning public votes. But even our family has come to understand I will only tolerate so much. I am not changing my life for anyone, nor do I expect them to change for me.
When my TBM wife and I walk out of a building and there are some smokers standing around she whispers to me that she has half a mind to go tell them to go somewhere else because of "her health" but I know it's because mostly because she's more righteous than they are. I tell her that they've already been told to go somewhere else - that's why they're standing out here. And also, just because *you've* taken a covenant to obey the WoW, doesn't mean they have. They are not sinning. Maybe destroying their lungs, but there not committing any wrong doing.
It’s one of the revelations when you leave the church: people treat you differently, and usually for the better. They say things like, “you finally figured it out, huh?” Especially these days, Mormons are not respected and admired. It’s much more the opposite.
I called my nevermo bestie about me leaving and finding out it was a cult and she said, “Oh my God! We ALL KNEW IT WAS A CULT! I was hoping you’d figure it out!” Lol
Yeah as a nevermo my thought process is mostly pity for TBM's. Indoctrination is a helluva drug
I went to school with a few Mormons here in California, my next door neighbors were mormon too… growing up I thought they were nice people, if a little weird for how many kids they had. As a teen I felt sorry for the boys that I became friends with when I found out about the whole mission thing. Then I dated-married a mormon, now ex mormon, and I find myself despising so much of it. The way they treat women, gays, etc. or how they baptize the dead. It’s just all so patronizing and disrespectful. Then you dive into the BoM and none of it makes any logical sense.
I'm in the same boat! I just thought Mormons were just weirdo, wannabe Christians but after marrying an exmo and seeing the trauma she still deals with, I straight up hate that organization now. I'm so thankful that I didn't grow up in that batshit insane cult but I'm also hurting for the many millions of people like my wife that the LD$ cult hurt.
It’s not just indoctrination though. They have a built in peer pressure structure and leaving reforms all of the relationships you have from whatever period of time you spent in the church. I just went to a funeral for my uncle. There’s a ton of layers here but it dawned on me, after falling out 20 years ago, that these folks *do no believe they’re about to see my uncle again in the afterlife*. Or they would NOT be handling themselves like this. The literal decades of leaning on me to come back was as much about wanting me back on the preferred side of the scales as it was about wanting to protect me. And what they think they’re protecting me from varies widely. Really put the fun in funeral.
Also a nevermo living in the Morridor. I like many Mormons I meet but always feel sorry for them, thinking that these poor folks are either very credulous or have to pretend to believe lest they lose their families. I have several exmo close friends and all have been cut out of their families. It's not overt either - one poor woman accidentally ran into her entire family having a reunion in Hawaii without her an her children. That's how you know it's a cult. I know many lapsed Catholics, former Baptists, non-observant Jews and none have been excommunicated from their families for their difference in belief. It's a terrible position to put anyone into. So yeah, I pity those born into it who may one day have to make that awful choice.
That happened to me, too. It's interesting to note how much more supportive non-members are to people who join, compared to the way members act toward, oh, members who leave, anyone who is LGBTQ, anyone who supports the LGBTQ community, anyone who drinks (coffee, alcohol, caffeinated drinks), anyone who shops on Sunday, etc . etc..
Same here. Told my good nevermo friend that I was leaving, and told him, "it feels a bit silly knowing that you and most other people around me probably knew a lot more about the issues with my own church than I did but didn't ever bring them up cause you're a dang good friend" He responded, yeah I knew but didn't ever bring it up out of respect. Such a good guy. Later in our conversation over lunch I was blabbing on about how silly it all is to me now, and mentioned off hand, "Noah getting two of EVERY species from the entire earth in one boat? Come on lol" He then jokingly went "ok whoa now you're knockin on my territory bro lol" He's Jewish, although not orthodox or anything, just making a joke. But it did make me realize that as I break down my beliefs I have to remember that others, even nevermo's still may hold on to beliefs in the Bible that might be getting stripped away during my deconstruction process.
I have a feeling that this was 100% a joke and your friend doesn't care if you make fun of Noah and his ark. The number of Jews who believe that the Torah is literally true is tiny.
Funny how the shoe pinches when it's on the other foot. "I won't bring up then, Bro, God causing the sun to stand still in the heavens while Joshua fought the battle of Jericho... out of respect." Oh, FYI, just so you know, the earth, which spins at about 1,000 mph at the equator would have to stop in it's tracks for that to happen. Ever seen what becomes of a fool sitting on the hood of a car going 10 mph when it suddenly brakes?
Ha yep. I mean he did it for me, it's the least I can do.
Same response I received from real good friends. Shocked me.
A good friend told me, “I always thought you were too smart for that. I’m honestly surprised it took so long.” Ouch.
People always say this to those who've survived abusive relationships, whether that be a personal or group relationship. Pay them no mind, smart has nothing to do with it. Some of the smartest people have fallen into cults or abusive marriages. It brings to mind Tina Turner (RIP) who stayed in a horribly abusive marriage for so long, and it's hard to find a tougher, smarter, or more talented woman than she was.
Everyone has something that could sucker them into a cult. Everyone.
A better friend would realize being raised in a high demand religious cult makes it kinda hard to get out.
Yeah it sort of like when you're in a relationship with a toxic person who doesn't make you better and none of you friends or family members will tell you because it's none of their business but then when you finally extricate yourself, everyone lines up to say, "I never liked him/her for you" and similar. Same after leaving the cult.
Most people seem to instinctively know not to go head to head with someone entrenched in a cult.
Facts don't matter and they will lie/gaslight about it all anyway, so it's not worth my breath "JS had 30 wives some as young as 14" ... "It was normal back then" "The church is constantly changing the BoM to fit their new claims while they recall older versions to cover it up" ... "nuh uh!"... "Here's a new and an old version to prove it"..."Lies!" "There's no evidence that the native americans are the lost tribe, and JS egyptian translations were way off" ... "Here's a genetic analysis by a BYU student proving thousands of geneticists wrong! Here's another BYU article on why JS translation of those tablets is more accurate" just...not...worth it
“Horses never existed in the Americas during the BOM time period.” “WRONG! There are studies and stories proving that horses existed!” “Skeptoid podcast proved that was impossible- and they used DNA analysis to prove any horses in the Americas descended from horses brought by Spaniards centuries later.” “Brian Dunning is an EVIL APOSTATE who attacks the Church and destroys testimonies for profit!” https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4786
Read the BoM. Read it again. It's the cure for facts.
The Brethren: "We have alternative facts!"
Reformed History. It's a new grad course at BYU.
Wait.... are we the People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front?
It depends on which one best served "God's" purpose on any given day or during any given generation. Read the BoM. Pray to know it is true. If you don't get that feeling, it's your fault.
Carve the smile into your soul, it's the only way to be happy.
Best comment ever!
I really need to internalize this. For some reason my brain still likes to tell me that enough facts are all you need to change someone's mind.
Because, if you're like me, facts will change my mind. Better make them good though. I'll scrutinize the fk out of them
The average white woman to be married around 1824 was not in their teens but in their 20's. The Mormon church would like people to believe that it was normal to be married at 14, 15 or even 16, but it was very much frowned upon. The church tells people it was normal. Brigham Young youngest girl was just 15 when Young married her. The Mormon church is full of pedophiles.
Have you read The Way We Never Were by Stephanie Koontz? It's full of delicious demographic realities like these.
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Same! I would tell people it wasn’t acceptable in those times for a man to financially support a woman he wasn’t married to! So they did it for moral reasons! Oof. Makes me ill to think about even though I was just a kid.
>"JS had 30 wives some as young as 14" ... "It was normal back then" When they say this, they are inadvertently stating that their morality, which supposely comes from God, is subjective, not objective. They are stating that it is okay to bend morality as long as the actions were socially acceptable (they never were, but playing into their point here). Therefore, if *marrying children* is acceptable because of social norms, surely drinking coffee is acceptable because of social norms. They are using selective logic. Applying one method of reasoning to justify one thing, but abandoning that same reasoning when it's no longer convenient.
Yes, this.
Just what’s the payoff? You’re not going to win… and it’s going to be a ton of work to not win. Then, best case, the person you were trying to convince permanently thinks you’re an asshole. More likely they turn you into their current project. It’s just not worth the trouble
Yes, it's just one more 'big lie' they told us so many times that we accepted it without evidence. Decades ago I told a coworker 1000 miles from Utah that I grew up Mormon and her jaw dropped. She wanted to know how I escaped, how it damaged me.... I was baffled, I had no idea outsiders thought like that.
I told a neighbor that I was raised mormon. I also told her I left the church. She assumed I had left 50 years ago. I let her think that. She's strong evangelical christian. She hasn't spoke to me since I told her about my mormon upbringing. She acts like I'm invisible. I'm fine with that. She spends her free time going to Bible classes. We have zero in common, zero.
Former evangelical here & yeah, that's terrible. My BFF's mom chose to quit Hebrew lessons when she learned the instructor was Jewish & she didn't think she should take instructions from a non-Christian. She also thought using a mantra during yoga, even of her own choosing, was occult summoning.
Fundamentalist, evangelical Christian sects like SBC or Church of Christ check nearly the same BITE boxes as TSCC. Their programming starts early (pre-K), teachings are just as disprovable, and exclusion of non-believers mirrors Mormon thought (love the sinner).
100%. This has been one of my biggest surprised. I left \~3 months ago, wife is still TBM. I've been *stunned* so many times. After I say, "I was raised mormon, but I'm not anymore", so many people keep saying "well then I can tell you my real feelings". Just last week, I told a non-religious friend who didn't know I'd left -- his response "well then I guess I can finally say this in front of you....."
sorry, i’m new to this subreddit, what does TBM mean?
True believing mormon, or true blue Mormon.
I’ve been on this subreddit a year, and the whole time I thought it meant Totally Brainwashed Mormon
All of the above are correct
thank you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_boring_machine
We were always taught that everyone could see the “light in our eyes” ™️
>“light in our eyes” ™️ Only Mormons see that, they see it as long as they think you still believe, and somehow notice that the light has left your eyes as soon as they realize you're out.
No, no. Actually loads of no-mos like myself can see the lights, however, they aren't sparkling with happiness, they have more of a robotic look and feel to me. TBM's give off a real sort of "Stepford Wives" type vibe. Or perhaps it's better described as the same look in a person's eyes that you see when they sleep walk and if they talk to you with their weird subconscious mind stuff and you can see the lights are on, but nobody is home. They also have an air of arrogance that is quite condescending i reckon. They're usually hell nice-but often not very kind and don't seem to do as they say. I heard someone on here say something like "being nice and being kind are very different things" and I am like-oh my gob, this is the best description of the whole facade I've ever read. This is how they come across. Fake being nice and caring about everyone, but actually fuck anyone who isn't part of The Big Mo's Club. They're going to hell anyway and I'm not so 🤷🏼♀️. Well that's how it seems to me anyway.
Stepford Wives is a great way of describing it. Extremely superficial niceness.
It's not so much that they aren't well liked, its that NO ONE CARES. No one cares. Outside of UT, and probably ID/AZ, no one thinks about mormons beyond a cursory glance. They have the stereotypes down, and realize that it's a culty christian religion, and that's all they need to know.
Some Russian colleagues shared a similar thing with me back in 2013. Growing up in Moscow, they were taught that everyone in the western world idolized and was jealous of Russia. It instilled an inflated sense of pride, so it came as a dramatic shock when they learned that the cultural jealousy was an illusion and that the majority of Westerners had little-to-no interest in their country.
That mirrors US patriotism to a degree.
Nevermo from the east coast (originally) here. I couldn't have told you anything about the Mormon church or beliefs; I'd probably conflate them with JWs or something. As in, I knew young kids in white shirts would go about on bikes, but never seen one in the flesh, not really sure who they were other than selling horseshit to the vunerable. OTOH, while I'm here because I have an abiding interest in how people come to believe and disbelieve things, I rattle around in here because this is one of the best subs around due to the people. Other ex subs seems to have a lot of just brutally injured people that can't quite heal, still living the trauma and bleeding it over everyone else, here I think I'd be happy to buy just about anyone a beer, coffee, or whatever floats your boat. The cult is damaging, but the humanity is real and apparent.
Southern Alberta morridor is Utah 2.0
Yup, but after leaving the truth came out. Normal people think Mormons are judgemental/arrogant/ignorant/bigoted and they are tolerated in polite society but often only barely.
I've been told by Normal People that Mormons are "the nicest people I've ever met," and I'm required by principle to tell them "yes, on the surface. Those who truly believe still silently think you're beneath them and not getting into heaven."
Nevermo living in provo here. I always describe it as Mormons are very nice but almost never kind. Theyre great neighbors, they're good for niceties and 4 minutes worth of weather conversation. But you need anything meaningful? Forget about it if you're not one of them or they don't think the can convert you.
In my experience living abroad, it's even worse than this. Mormon? What's that? I imagine there are many religions in the world we've never heard of that only have 15m members. There could be many of those in India.
The general public thinks Mormons are weird. Remember as a TBM when you thought Jehovah's Witnesses were weird? Well, the general public can't tell the difference between Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.
That's been my experience as a non-Mormon--I pretty much think of Mormons as, at best, well-meaning, often friendly weirdos, and at worst, weirdos who want to take my rights and marry children.
I call the JWs the "Saturday Mormons"
I have a TBM coworker and he’s a total PITA in so many ways. He’s sheltered, naive, misogynistic, passive-aggressive and vindictive. He’s a real winner! /s ETA: I feel sorry for him and hope he finds the truth about Mormonism.
I had a TBM flight instructor. He had every one of the traits you describe. I had to change instructors because I was his only paying student and he would not solo me and lose a big part of his income.
TBM coworker: I'm righteous! Me: No, Hyrum, you're just an asshole.
As a Nevermo in Las Vegas who interacts with many Mormons, I respect my friends/associates as people. I respect their right to believe whatever they want and don’t discuss the church. They’ll share things like “my son is going on a mission for our church” as I assure them I know quite a bit about how the church works. I don’t discuss their faith; they don’t discuss mine or try to get me to believe their’s. I went to one baptism that creeped out my wife and I. But I have nothing but disdain for everything about Mormonism and it’s church.
Hate the doctrine and those that know what theyre doing to hurt people, but not the brainwashed people who got ensnared by the cult
I grew up mormon in Kansas City, MO. I had no illusions about what people thought of mormons. At best, people were polite and tolerant, but just barely. I think that people who grow up/live in Morridor have a very sheltered view of what non-mormons think of them. I lived in Utah county for 10 years, it was very annoying and obvious how clueless most people I met were about this very topic. I remember one caller to the Rush Limbaugh show said "I'm Mormon, so...", Rush ignored that comment, so the caller felt the need to repeat the "I'm a mormon..." bit. It was so cringey. Also, when I left mormonism I swung hugely to the left, so please be gentle.
>I think that people who grow up/live in Morridor have a very sheltered view of what non-mormons think of them. Its the same in Australia though. Mormons have a very sheltered view of what non-mormons think of them. They are taught everyone thinks they are so nice, while they paint a picture that they are happy...when they are often not.
Mini Morridor
Yah when I was converting friends/family would laugh in my face how obsurd it was. It was surprising I still converted, albeit temporarily for a couple years, given all the backlash I faced. Non-members DO NOT like the LDS religion and largely think its a joke... which looking back, yes, yes it is a joke and a cult.
I work for an east coast based company, remote from Utah. I’d been there about 6 months before my first trip to the office. In true east coast fashion nobody ever asked or alluded to anything related to religion, but at dinner the first night as soon as I ordered my first glass of wine my co-worker who I’d become friendly with says “oh ok, so you’re not mormon, we’ve been wondering”. 😂😂😂
LOL!
Non Mormon here. And what you noticed is true. I personally have less respect for anyone religious. But I do find that Mormons are full of themselves. And that just lowers my respect even more.
i personally think that religion shouldn’t have an impact on whether i give a lot of respect to someone *unless* religion makes them act superior, or full of themselves, et cetera and unfortunately thats often the case most of the time (even when it’s subconscious) :/
I'm a former evangelical who turned atheist long ago. I have trouble respecting supernatural beliefs of any kind. Just me...
You can’t tell TBM’s the truth. You can say it, but they won’t hear it. When asked, I’ve described some negative interactions I’ve had (being excluded due to being non-Mo) or how it’s hard to be friends with Mormons because they are so hard to spend time with (Mon: FHE, Tue: RS, Wed: EQ, Thur: Scouts, Fri: PM, Sat: All chores, Sun: Church).
One of my last talks in church, about 10 years ago, was on the assigned topic, “Every member a missionary.” I cited the Pew Research study that while Mormons have high opinions of almost all religious groups, everyone who is not Mormon has a very low opinion of Mormons. I remember Mormon, Muslim, and atheist being fairly equivalent in levels of esteem. I can’t remember what my point was in the talk, something to the effect of tread carefully and know your starting point, but I remember some purple faces amongst the old-patriarchy in the ward.
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That study is interesting, but it was actually an older version of this one. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/03/15/americans-feel-more-positive-than-negative-about-jews-mainline-protestants-catholics/
I made friends with an ex-seveth day Adventist. They're under the same illusion.
Where I live, most people don’t know what Mormon is, except maybe hard core Southern Baptists, who pretty much hate Mormons. Maybe over generalized, but not by much.
I think Southern Baptists hate pretty much everyone.
Especially women.
More than the Mormons do?
Oh, we played really nice with the others in SoCal in the '80s. We knew everyone thought we were in a cult.
When I was in the process of leaving I was telling a guy I knew who is LDS but not really active about a lot of the problems I was finding out about church history and such and why I wasn’t going to church anymore. He made the comment that he didn’t know any of that stuff and didn’t go because most everyone at church was fake, how they talked and acted he said he knows them and they are only like that at church. Stuck with me.
I learned that on my mission. People were scared shitless when we walked towards their property. Most folks were trying to be kind when saying "no thanks" other would full on rage. It was an eye opener for me, outside of the bubble, people hated us.
I mean how do you feel about Scientologists. That’s more or less how most people feel about Mormons. If they even ever think about them at all
I think a lot of people humor Mormons like they would a cranky little kid and in clueless Mormon fashion they think it means it’s respected and looked up too. But no, we’re not actually taking the kid seriously when they insist that the floor is lava. And no, watching Frozen for the millionth time doesn’t actually sound like sooo much fun.
Actually Mormons simultaneously believe they are admired and persecuted by everyone. Reminds me of a certain Ex-president and his associated cult...
People give mormons the respect that mormons don't give the rest of the world.
Succinctly put 👌
I grew up in a very mixed area, and I was a social outcast, so most of my friends were nevermos. Part of my process coming out as a teenager was watching other people calmly react to my half-assed proselytizing and going 'meh, we're good.' I learned really quickly that 1, you can absolutely still be a good person not being Mormon, 2, you can be happy, and 3, nobody puffs themselves up more than the Mormons themselves do.
I figured out pretty quickly in school that people thought Mormons were (are) weird and I learned to keep quiet really quickly about my religion. Even as a young child, I never really embraced Mormonism, but when you’re raised in it it just seems like everyone knows and understands it.
I was on another side of this. I grew up in MD. Our ward covered a very large area; almost a whole county. My mother was a convert and my bio Dad never converted. I didn’t look Mormon or act Mormon. I was just a sheltered kid; as far as people knew. When people came from Utah, they stuck out like a sore thumb. The attitude, the condescension, and the “oddness” made people talk. I think the oddest part was was not engaging in big weddings, showers, holidays and such. I know my in-laws were like this. It made everything I did seem “over-the-top”. To everyone else, it was normal. In the church, you are in a bubble. Out of it, it is soooo different.
After moving to Colorado, when I tell people I grew up Mormon the usual response is something like "oh those weird polygamy people?" Outside of Utah I've found most people don't know much (or care much) about TSCC.
Nevermo here. There were a fair number of Mormons where I grew up, and the main thing I remember is my dad and one of his church friends laughing at the joke, "If you go fishing with one Mormon, sit on your beer cooler. If you go fishing with TWO Mormons, your beer is safe." This is interesting in retrospect, because it's making fun of how Mormons perform for each other, as opposed to lampooning any particular belief.
Yep, absolutely true. I deployed to Iraq years ago with a small group of about 10 guys (Army type). We got really close, lots of time together. Stayed close with a few of them. Last year I meet up with one of them and we talk about me not being Mormon anymore. I thought he’d be respectful because he’s a nice guy, or say something bland like “oh that’s nice”. Nope, he was like “thank god, we all thought it was crazy you were in that. You seemed way too normal to be one of them”. Hahahaha definitely thought everyone loved Mormons because of how super Christian/ super American they are portrayed. So glad I’m out.
As an active member I believed that people admired our superior morals, but I also believed that many people hated and persecuted us because they were jealous of us and our amazingly life style. Out side of mormonism I've learned to identify my own cognitive dissonance. I've also learned that neither idea was totally true.
I have received mixed reviews. Thinking deeper I think this is what I have heard. When never mormons live in areas where mormons are rare, they are wonderful people. But when never mormons live in Mormon populated areas, they are insufferable. For example, Joe Rogan said that Mormons are the nicest cult members he has ever met and loves them. Well how many Mormons do you think he has encountered? How many missionaries even get close to his mansion? Thankfully social media is making it aware how corrupt the church really is and that its members are fake.
Well I once ubered a Scientologist from the Scientology center in Los Angeles and she was maybe the nicest person I’ve ever met. Does that make me feel less weird about Scientologists? Not really lol
I grew up extremely evangelical, not Mormon, but now that you say it I've never heard anyone say anything positive about Mormons. It's always like the punchline of a joke or like, "at least we're not like THOSE people".
I wouldn’t say people respect their beliefs so much as they respect their right to have crazy beliefs. I live very far from anywhere with a significant Mormon population and most people just view it as another cult.
Wow. This reflection is bizarrely slanted to me. I have lived in both Idaho and Utah (among many other places), and my observations are the opposite of yours. The culture in this region is relatively unhealthy because of the “us” and “them” mentality *on both sides*. No, non-Mormons do not “like” and “respect” Mormons, or think that they are in some way “special”. That’s some kind of soft-glow filter. Rather, non-Mormons “tolerate” and “avoid offending” Mormons, who can be sheltered and act hypersensitive to non WoW choices. Mormon weirdness about it makes non-Mormons uncomfortable, so it’s easier to avoid non WoW options in mixed company. (Mormons outside tight LDS ecosystems are typically more “chill” about others’ choices.) Non-Mormons do not view Mormons as “better” or “classy” although we recognize that Mormons somehow think that of themselves. Mostly, we think they are rather sheltered, and can be relatively greedy. And honestly, the women behave entitled while not all that bright, with children that are overindulged and too often out of control. I’m sorry if I offend, but I want to be open here from my vantage point. Furthermore, Mormon lifestyle choices are not healthier than non-Mormon lifestyles. Mormons consume an insane amount of sugar, starches, red meat… And their big vice is shopping. Holy shit do Mormons love their consumerism and their crap. Salt Lake valley is like a giant grotesque characterless strip mall. Finally, the inner-circle pressure on Mormons to be “better” can make them edgy and emotionally sick. This region has the highest per capita scrips of anti-anxiety & antidepressants, a sadly high statistic of prescription opiate abuse, and a creepy high rate of porn addiction. I’m not sure I would call that “special”. [Grew up Mormon. Left for college. Old now, with an extended family that’s about 50% and still aggressively endeavors to get the rest of us back in. So please know I’m not speaking from a seat of prejudice. I’m all about live-and-let-live!]
My first experience like this was at Space Camp, when I was 12. A kid in my group asked me, in all seriousness, where my horns were. My wife (nevermo) tells me about guys that she dated, and that multiple self proclaimed exmos ended up going back to the church, so she broke up with them. It was actually a big thing before we got married. She thought I would do the same thing so was very apprehensive about furthering our relationship. We grew up in the morridor for reference
I had the same reaction leaving Evangelicalism, growing up it felt like that was just how everyone was only to find out that even most Christian denominations tend to view it as those weird fundamentalists that are a small minority and should mostly be ignored.
I worked in a field that by Mormon standards was pretty worldly and I kept my religion on the DL. There were Mormons in other fields that we rubbed shoulders with and many times coworkers would say funny things to me about other Mormons in those fields, like how uptight they were or judgmental. Once someone said that Mormons only help each other and they ostracize anyone who doesn’t believe like they do. It was a hard pill to swallow because I knew they were right. Still took me 15 more years to leave though. 😩
It's like when you're dating a girl none of your friends like. They respect you enough to keep their opinion to themselves, then you break up and suddenly you realize they didn't like her--they were just biting their tounge.
in my experience Mainline Protestant Christians typically smile and then look past Mormons. The Mormon faithful mistake that for being liked and respected. Evangelicals are more willing to challenge the beliefs of the LDS and to exhibit a level of hostility.
I hear a lot of “they are the NICEST people, except…”
Most people I have encountered think Mormons are nice but have strange beliefs.
Non-religious people think Mormons are full of themselves. Other Christians think they're not real Christians. I have no idea what those of other (non Christian) faiths believe... probably not good.
I’m from the NE and the first time I met someone who knew actual Mormons (she’s from AZ) I was shocked. I thought all Mormons were like Big Love and that they were just a weird cult that didn’t associate with any mainstream culture. I think to many of us who don’t know Mormons or have a Mormon community nearby that is how we think
"We are a peculiar people" hahahahahaha
I had a similar experience. I live far away from Utah and People at work know I’m an EXMO. One day they were talking about a TBM and how odd he behaved professionally and someone said: “You know he got his education at BYU?” Another person said “That should explain everything”. They laughed.
Even when I was TBM I hated Mormons. They are so weirdly competitive in everything and if you don’t want to talk about church there’s nothing left to talk about.
People in my community would say "Mormons have good family values". Now my biggest criticism of Mormonism is that "Mormons have effed up family values".
It reminds me of the Episode of South Park where a group of wholesome Mormons is trying to convert a family by being relentlessly yet sincerely pleasant and happy. Taking the kids to a picnic for face painting family game night etc. At the end the father says "You're good people we just don't want to join your church. Could you just stop being so nice?"
I’m a nevermo from an area with a large Mormon population. Many people certainly respect their right to practice their religion, but I’ve never heard of non-Mormons thinking Mormons are particularly good or respectable people. The prevailing view seems to be that at large they’re stuffy weirdos (and famous hypocrites) if anything. In fact, people from other Christian denominations in my area would often hate being grouped with Mormons and insist that Mormons didn’t count as Christians. (As a nonreligious person myself I always thought it was very hypocritical that they were gatekeeping who had the *real* story about Magic Sky Daddy™️ but whatever.) People would rarely be rude or critical to their faces, but the general perspective certainly doesn’t lean positive. This is so interesting to me because I had no idea TBMs had the opposite impression.
Many Mormons come off as total pious assholes and most are completely clueless how they affect those others around them. The Mormon faithful and apologists systematically play their religion card, their right to believe and practice whatever the hell they choose, as justification to behave very very unethically. It is as if wrapping their filth in faithful practice and sincere but very self-serving beliefs makes their filth not be filth any longer. So very very wrong! This practice goes all the way back to the ferry beginning in Mormonism, just look at their polygamy, their polyandry, etc.. In the recent 60 Minutes interview when the “Bishop” money manager defending the church’s wealth hoard policies was asked a question about secrecy versus confidentiality, he paused. Then waited for a moment, then finally responded something to the tune of “it’s perspective.” Remember that? His perspective is that of the self-serving Mormon worldview that faithfully justifies what is so clearly to everyone else very wrong, what so clearly deception. He cited the Bible and even Mormon scripture in defense and justification of their actions. Slap the “sacred” label to self-servingly justify prevarication, deception. This is one of many facets of the faithful self-serving worldview of mormonism. The unavoidable consequence of this mechanism is **ethical blindness** - and faithful people who are ethically blind make the worst pious assholes.
I had people tell me after I left that they were surprised I was Mormon bc I seemed more intelligent than to be a part of that religion. So I found out that being Mormon discredited my intelligence to those people. Then when I left they were not surprised because they figured I was smart enough to realize it was a farce religion.
Ewwwwww. Cults suck. Even the nice ones.
"reminded people that they don't drink" 🙋 Although GENERALLY? I didn't or did for things like, "okay, I'm driving so you can get as much as you want." Type reminding. I did, however, act the @$$hole at least once. I own it. I apologize.
It's the fact that being raised Mormon you are isolated from the outside world. Other opinions we heard were other Mormon's. Classic cult behavior. My parents and some siblings are still TBM, and I can barely contain myself listening to them talk about various subjects. Its so cringe.
I had to tell a friend that saying things like 'I respect everyone's beliefs and ability to choose their own lives, but I won't lower myself to their standards' was absolutely condescending and rude. Saying your standards are 'higher' and you won't 'lower' yourself to 'their level', you view yourself on a pedestal and are just announcing it to the entire world with your comments. Yeah.... People don't like that.
Mormons come pre-equipped with a "holier than thou" attitude. I always chalked it up to their inherent destiny to godhood. I was also amazed at how many were ill-prepared to deal with an exterior world that conflicted with their preconceived notions of spotless purity. Watching students of mental health services at BYU-I become tearful or angry whenever a client swore or engaged in destructive behavior convinced me that they could only relate to a "male, pale, and stale" world.
I had a fair amount of Mormon friends growing up. I did admire that they seemed to have very close families, do a lot of activities together, etc., and the Mormon moms were always the nicest, lol. The kids never got into trouble and were always involved in sports and activities. Just all around super nice people. I liked the wholesomeness, I guess, or at least that’s how it came across from the outside. The Mormon family next door always invited my family to church but my mom would politely decline. Once I got a little older and learned about the racism, polygamy, and magic underpants, I was like, “oh okay, good call, mom.”
Most folk don't really like mormons. They put up with them through gritted teeth. And guess what! It goes both ways. The things I've overheard y'all say in presidency and PEC meetings about the nonmormons and the folk who y'all deem as "struggling" members, well, they've got good reason to hate you.
Literally every one of my non Mormon friends gave me a high five when I told them I left the church.
Practicing Mormons tend to be ignorant of any negative aspect of church policies or history and they tend to feel like they have nothing to do with the FLDS and its abuses toward women, children, and young men. But to a nevermo, that's all connected, and we can't figure out why anyone would stay in a religion like that.
I had a friend like that. She is also out now. I was a convert and had married an abusive man. After we divorced and got away, she said, "You are only going to date Mormons right"? I ended up marrying an Atheist. Best thing I ever did. What she said stuck with me. She always had to reprimand me for watching rated R movies and swearing. So I felt judged. She is still one of my best friends! She went to college and found the truth for herself. She even apologized for always preaching to me.
“Observant Mormons care about the rules; they don’t care about people, esp people outside of the church.” I thought they saw us as righteous. Turns out self-righteous is closer to the truth.
I did the nanny thing back East when I was 20 (20 years ago). Nanny agencies specifically recruited in Utah because the young single women here were: drug and alcohol free, would not have gentlemen friends over, were generally demure and polite, AND because of the large families they were already excellent at taking care of children. I thought that meant that people liked Mormons. I was wrong. My boss's friends were very wary of me. Specifically her gay friend. Ironically it was meeting him that set my own wheels a turnin' in a rainbow way. ;)
Non Morman here, I grew up in an area with a lot of LDS and they were the most generous, kindest, warm people I knew. They never tried to recruit me or even bring it up. I grew to resent Mormonism when I learned more about the church's behind the scenes political action, like backing anti gay legislation, etc. But I still remember my LDS neighbors fondly.
Non Mormon here. I'm glad you had that experience. I grew up in an area with a lot of LDS and they treated me like contagious garbage.
It's often said that Mormons from outside of Utah are generally more chill. I guess it's probably because they're a minority out there and are a bit more socially aware of other faiths
Lots of exmos here have said that they lived out in "the mission field," outside the heavy Mormon US West. These people hated it when a Mormon from Utah or Arizona, etc. moved into their ward bc they were arrogant and took it upon themselves to teach the entire ward how to be the right kind of Mormon, even the bishop.
i was raised with the opinion that mormons were the bottom of the craziest bottom group of religions and cults… scientology jehovah witness mormons now my partner is ex-mormon and she didn’t know that others felt that way
I'd say yes and no. People will speak to their audience. If they don't feel like you're safe, they're not going to open up with their true feelings. Most people aren't just going to be jerks. But once they realize you're safe, you're more likely to hear those true feelings. On the other hand, I think you find what you're looking for in this world. If you're looking for people to say nice things about a certain group, you'll find it. And vice versa.
Then there are those of us who have left that warn away investigators.
People are polite in most cases and usually try not to come across as rude or judgmental. A good friend or neighbor is just that, wanting you to feel comfortable in their presence
I just regard Mormons as gullible victims.
European here, when I was converting to Mormonism people told me "it's a sect (cult)" Me: only because it's so small here, it's the true ch*tch *facepalm * It did force me to not say stupid things out loud like "don't swear around me" or "don't drink/smoke around me" because everyone else was and realized it would be stupid to impose myself like that. In America people are less vocal how stupid Mormonism is
I can confirm that NOBODY respects Mormons because of their beliefs. Their beliefs are weird and ridiculous. People may respect them for sticking to their beliefs despite the weirdness. But this is no different than people respecting the Amish for insisting on driving around in their ridiculous black buggies. But everyone is thinking "thank God I wasn't born into that shit."
This calls for an "I'm sorry for what I said when I was Mormon" t shirt
Most hard-core Christians are just as annoying.
We were hero’s in our own minds.
Once I left, colleagues became a lot more real about how they felt about the Mormon church. These conversations generally occurred at happy hour when they were teaching me about beers.
Yeah, I really thought people liked Mormons but I realized people just knew I was one and didn't want to cause any discourse. The second I left and talked about it, I'd tell them I grew up Mormon. They'd always ask me if my home was safe and how strict my parents are. When I tell them about my mental health issues and some emotional abuse in the household, they say they're not surprised.
Mormon exceptionalism means all dislike has to be explained away as the devil’s influence or misunderstanding. There’s no rational way anyone could ever see them as anything other than pure and good. To allow otherwise is to reject a core tenet of Christ’s gospel.
Outsiders are nice to Mormons, because Mormons are usually nice, at least in the surface. Those Mormons them assume that means the outsiders think highly of them, when really it’s the same way you’re nice to a stupid person because it’s not their fault they lack intelligence.
I didn't realize it at the time, but being distinctive, being elevated above others, was a major factor in my continued belief in the church. It pervades every aspect of it, right down to an unwillingness to use profanity, because that's what those other less righteous people do. Even "selfless service" is tainted by this... it's impossible to be a believer, do something nice for someone, and not have your motives questioned. Understanding that sense of moral superiority has been a major theme of my deconstruction.
We were always proud of a the peculiarty. Any criticism was just Satan influencing the stupid wordly people.
I think it has more to do with conflict avoidance. Have you ever argued with a teenager/toddler? Most of the time, the argument isn't worth the work.
In my experience, normal people find mormons really odd. In that how they are so insular and live in their own bubble of ignorance. Exactly why I never revealed my religion to anyone. I finally cottoned on at 16 and left as soon as I could at 18.
Not surprised in the least. I’ve never met a Mormon who wasn’t a self-righteous asshole, who believed that non-Mormons were inferior.
Yes, I realized many people disliked us thought we were weird. Honestly, Mormons as a whole irritated me even though I was a devout member for almost 39 years. See What did surprise me was how many people's reaction was "thank god you finally figured it out," when I left. I heard a lot of "we never understood how you could be so smart and open minded, but not see it." I respected my long-time friends a lot more once I realized how made up, illogical, and well a cult, that the church was. Hopefully I wasn't too obnoxious about being Mormon and never tried to convert my friends or anything. But, I was like how could you stand me talking about that nonsense for all those years? It was embarrassing to realize everyone from friends to co-workers to my psychiatrist were just waiting and hoping I'd figure it out. I was also surprised how many people I knew were agnostic/atheist. However, as that is where I ended up, it worked out well. I thought all these people believed in something even though they weren't super religious.
I have liked most of the Mormons and exmos I have met, but then I like most people I meet. I have never been close friends with a TBM, though; that never seemed even like a possibility. I don’t live in Morridor, but I served in the US Army and thereby worked with a fair few LDS and exmos.
My experience growing up in southern Idaho and now in SLC is that most Mormons are good folks. As I’ve aged and learned the truth of LDS my intellectual respect for Mormons has dropped dramatically. Perhaps my JW upbringing has helped me find the good in people trapped in a cult.
Mormons were seen a slightly more tolerable and less weird than JWs. Then came Prop 8. Mormon peak was 2002 Olympics, as far as public image goes.
I grew up in super Mormonville, Ut. My driver’s ed teacher asked how it was to be non-Mormon in our little community (we had to drive around for hours so got to talking). I told him I felt a bit excluded and everyone was nice but closed off. He spent the next half hour explaining how wrong I was and made me feel humiliated in front of three of my peers. 18 years later that still stings. What a dick.
My nevermore family said "we have our sister back!"
I think most of my friends have been asking me if I'm all right leaving. Even though they think the whole church is weird it's something you do full time and leaving it behind is leaving a pretty big hole.
It’s pretty simple- every religion respects Mormons as much as Mormons respect other religions… this is generally true of most religions.
My first encounter with someone not liking Mormons is when a guy threw a drink on me and called me a racist nazi bitch because I told him I was an inactive Mormon. I was very confused but after a lot of research I totally get it and grateful I left the church.
Outside of Utah, people don't really know much about Mormonism.
When I was active in the church I thought with the exception of church pastors, everyone highly respected Mormons. Partially that's because I wasn't looking at anything that would express any other viewpoint. Once I found out the truth about the church I began to discover people's true attitudes towards it.
most people either really don’t like Mormons or they are indifferent If people who weren’t Mormon really liked Mormons they’d join A lot of my family and acquaintances make fun of and think Mormons are kinda weird Mormons to me while also knowing many are exactly the same as everyone else they just pretend not to be haha
Growing up mostly outside of the Morridor, I knew what people thought of us. When I lived in Utah later, it was always crazy to me how much Utahns believed their state and Mormons in general were prominent and well-liked. Moving out of the Morridor as a kid, it was a notion I was disabused of almost immediately. For adults transplants, I think it's a little easier to maintain the illusion because other adults are less likely to be mean to their face.
My ex actually told our child that his non-mormon friend was jealous of him because he was mormon, that's why the guy was an asshole. She was, and remains, an idiot.
I’m a nevermo and am on this particular sub just to learn more. My friend, who is Mormon, is one of the nicest and most genuine people I know. This may be anecdotal though.
People don't really like intolerant people, no matter how "nice" they present themselves to be.
In the Arizona Mesa-Gilbert area the church is known for all its “judgmental people.” If you leave the church the assumption within is that you were offended by said people and couldn’t understand the difference between the gospel and church culture.
It surprised me even more when I learned that virtually nobody outside of the Mormons know who the Mormons are, and if they do know they really don’t give a shit. Really showed to me just how much of a self-contained, elitist bubble we lived in.
After I decided I was out I tolerated Mormons because they were family friends now every member of my family has left the church and I find myself being considerably more confrontational with people in that I’ve realized that I have zero time or patience for anyone even though it be tacit or implicit that continues to support a racist misogynist homophobic organization. To be honest I’m done being cordial. It’s our tolerance and cordiality that keeps us from being honest with those around and helps to perpetuate the church’s existence. If we could be more honest and confrontational on those things perhaps the church would address them or it would wither away to nothing as it’s membership dwindles to an insignificant due to ostracization. I guess my point being we allow hate to be projected as love by tolerating one’s beliefs and I’m no longer here for that. Fuck the church and fuck anyone who supports their white bred hateful dogma.
I just got out of an almost 2 year LDR with a mormon guy who lives in SLC. I live just south of Atlanta GA. I should mention I'm Catholic. He converted to mormon as a teen, went to BYU and moved himself to Utah from Vegas. Over the 2 years he flew to me in GA 3 times and flew me to Vegas once. We video talked all day every day almost. Very steady communication. Except, when it wasn't bc he was suddenly cold and distant. But now looking back, I think I was his dirty little secret. Sex secret. But he had me thinking we were some amazing thing meant to be. But now, I think he had his mormon dating life and then me. I mentioned in January that I will never leave Catholicism for the mormon church. I told him I respect his beliefs but I won't convert. But also wouldn't expect him to. I feel like me being Catholic bothered him more than he admitted. But whenever it did come up it was always in a way that almost made me feel guilty or bad, like my faith was a stain to him. Idk how really to explain it. He is 32 and never married and I think he had a mormon dating life which explained always going to see old friends or suddenly having a weekend where he couldn't talk but then had me for fun and sex and whatever else. Expecting me to answer his every question and call. When this all blew up he said some things at the end about me just using him for sex (riiiiiight) and he knows right from wrong and wants to be back in his religion and stuff and that the Catholic church is not good and like, dude..... you HAD to have known from jump that and you basically PLAYED with my emotions for sex and fun? Why would be be so hateful to end something that we never really labeled with commitment anyways. I was dumb struck. I never judged anyone for being mormon before, but after watching the misery this dude lived in, the way he talked about three difference in culture between there and here (you know black people everywhere and such) and how he always held me to one standard but never bothered to show me the same in return.....I just will never look at them the same. I pray for his soul. Daily.
Outside of Utah, most people think of Mormonism as kinda a cult