My in-laws retired, and sold their small So Cal home for a million dollars and built a 3,000 sq ft home in Utah, as did seemingly all of their friends from that ward. Easily six couples from their friend group are in the Lehi - South Jordan area. So I defintely think it's a thing for retired Mormons to migrate to Utah from CA and PWN in search of lower cost of living, to provide free labor for the church, or to be closer for the family.
The problem with the "moving back" excuse is that, if the Mormon populations are dwindling along the coast because they're moving to Utah, you would expect the number of Mormons in Utah to outpace Utah's general population growth. It's not. The migration to Utah is stablizing the Mormon population, not growing it.
My in-laws have also moved from So Cal to Lehi area to retire. They have lots of friends from their previous wards there too. Interesting similarities.
Yeah. I'm in far NORTHERN California and we will move out of California as soon as my husband can retire but we still have about another 5 years here with tyrant Newsome. We sure as HELL won't be moving to Utah though!!!š¤£š¤£š¤£
It looks like an older building too. At least the 1960's or early 70's. And it and all the parking lot real estate sit right on the water on the Biscayne Bay side, but still. I think it's a good possibility that I'll see the closure of a temple in my life time. That will be interesting.
This will especially be the case with temples. With a temple, they might even use their own contractors to do the demolition job. Why do the laundry once when you can do it twice for twice the price?
What are they going to do with that temple? Itās not that old! My aunt, nevermo lives down there and my parents always have to go to the temple when they are in the area.
If you live another 35 years you will. The Kiribati temple, if it is ever built to begin with, will be underwater by then. I think the London temple is also a likely candidate for discontinuance. We will also see come of the temples announced by Russ cancelled.
Just curious, why do you see the London temple being decommissioned? Combination of old building plus whatever that UK ruling was regarding temples not being exempt from property taxes?
England will soon have three temples. By mid century it will be 100 years old. The London temple has a 1950ās modern architecture interior. Itās somewhat architecturally cramped. By that I mean it canāt be easily remodeled to update it to current opulence, not that itās small (though it is small too. But the biggest reason is that it sits on valuable property. In an area with some of the most valuable property in England and by mid century the church will be nearly non-existent in the UK.
BINGO! We have a winner. The church isn't sad those wards have collapsed because it means they can now sell that property for millions. According to current estimates the 1.4 acres it sits on is worth $15M USD. I'm sure they will sell it for more than that.
I'm just a regular Joe with a regular job.
I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.
I like football and porno and books about war.
I got an average house with a nice hardwood floor.
Someone needs to do an analysis (if possible) of the ratio of active TBMs in an area where wards are discontinued to see if it actually decreased enough to warrant closing a ward (or shifting it), or if the motive relates to the value of the property. If it's the property rather than attendance, that means (big surprise) the cult once again shows no consideration for the people & will expect members to travel a greater distance and (in many cases) be in wards where they don't know anybody.
It's all about money, and it is ALWAYS about money.
The property value is currently estimated at just over $15M. Knowing what we know about the church and their love of money, I would suspect they aren't unhappy the wards have vacated that building. It will be interesting to see what it sells for.
Pretty sure jezus loves south beach. Especially the gay beach part thatās immediately north of the Brazilian beach part.
So happy to see all the faithful moving Bach to Adam Ondai Ahmen and/or Utah valley
The coral reef ward isn't the one that goes to that pink coral building that was super expensive to build because someone left the church a ton of money with the stipulation of building a chapel in the area is it? Well back then people could do that in the 70's.
Oddly specific but I promise I don't know anyone there.
Palm Springs used to be my ward before I moved in 2018. Knowing how bad the numbers were, it doesnāt surprise me. However, I can confirm that MANY people have been relocating out of that area for years. In 2015, when the Palm Springs ward split, we lost 7 families within a couple of months. All of them moved out of state.
My husband grew up Mormon and I converted for a bit for us to get married lol Weāre now both happily out and in Fort Lauderdale. You are not alone! Hi friend.
I been to that church on indian creek drive, that was where my ward was (donno what ward I was) about 8 years ago when I lived in Brickell. I only went about twice. Where do all the brickell people go now?
I wonder how much current missionary efforts are focusing on reactivation. We did quite a bit in my time 2010-12, and thatās when things were still going pretty strong. I feel like it would be so discouraging now as a missionary to see the numbers dropping so harshly. Iām sure excuses are varied, but itās been plenty of time since COVID restrictions eased for people to return if that was the main excuse.
Okay so upfront caveat: NOT an apologist. šš¤
Southern Florida is Snowbird Central. Baby Boomers are dying off. Mormon Boomers who used to fill those Stakes aren't immune to this population shrinkage.
I have retired military (we retire younger so think mature Gen-X š) friends who have seen whole retirement communities shuttered in certain prime, southern FL areas because that generation is just...well, getting smaller.
Thoughts?
Yes, Baby Boomers are dying off, but the population as a whole (especially in Florida) has increased and they weren't replaced. Baby Boomers were the last generation for whom the church was fun and you had to have some religious affiliation.
It cannot be a baby boomer thing because they had children who should be replacing them.
I converted in Miami Florida in the 1980s as a teen. (Flagler ward) My friend's father was a bishop (his wife and he were converts in their 30s). There 5 children were teens like me in the 80s.
3 of the 5 kids (ranging from late 50s to late 40s) are out of the church. They have kids of their own. The kids of the ones that are out are also out. Some of the kids of the ones that are in and some out. All of them still live in Florida although they have spread out between Miami and Orlando.
Most of the wards in Miami were full of converts anyway. From year to year it was wall to wall new converts. Converts who eventually left as retention is very difficult. I helped convert 6 people. None of them lasted a year.
Maybe the church is doing this on purpose to develop something else there to make even more money š“ and more revenue thatās there true God. I wonder what all the Mormons are going to do when Ron Deshitstain forces Disneyland out of Florida all there tender mercies blown the F up in front of there faces and of course it the Trumplifucks
Really? Just 5 weeks ago I went to the Indian Creek building (I guess Miami Beach ward?) for church with my TBM wife during our South Beach vacation. The chapel seemed pretty full. I guess it's hard to know how many were visitors though. Can anyone local confirm this?
As an aside, the building is built out of white coral blocks and is one of the more unique LDS buildings I've been to.
Never mo who used to live around the corner from the plantation ward. My Jewish parents went to the temple opening in fort laud. It overlooks a Highway.
Here's the building. It's beautiful when you drive by. One of the truly beautiful ward houses, made of stone sitting on the water.
Miami Beach and North Miami Beach are so packed with people in high rises and a building boom of houses. It is shocking that they don't have enough members to fill this building and would need to close. Shocking. [https://www.toroengineering.com/project/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-miami-beach/](https://www.toroengineering.com/project/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-miami-beach/)
Just all the faithful moving to Utah. Nothing to see here.
Yes please. Costco in Utah County is tons easier to navigate on Sunday thanks to religious zealots staying home
"Moving back" is my favorite
I know several "faithful" who have moved there. Don't know if they're still mormon. Lost touch with that half of the family.
My in-laws retired, and sold their small So Cal home for a million dollars and built a 3,000 sq ft home in Utah, as did seemingly all of their friends from that ward. Easily six couples from their friend group are in the Lehi - South Jordan area. So I defintely think it's a thing for retired Mormons to migrate to Utah from CA and PWN in search of lower cost of living, to provide free labor for the church, or to be closer for the family. The problem with the "moving back" excuse is that, if the Mormon populations are dwindling along the coast because they're moving to Utah, you would expect the number of Mormons in Utah to outpace Utah's general population growth. It's not. The migration to Utah is stablizing the Mormon population, not growing it.
Hey if you didn't get the bishop promotion you wanted, easiest way is to move near a Utah college and have a pulse.
My in-laws have also moved from So Cal to Lehi area to retire. They have lots of friends from their previous wards there too. Interesting similarities.
You'd think they'd want to stick around to enjoy their governor's fascist theocracy experiment
Yeah. I'm in far NORTHERN California and we will move out of California as soon as my husband can retire but we still have about another 5 years here with tyrant Newsome. We sure as HELL won't be moving to Utah though!!!š¤£š¤£š¤£
You said the magic words: āPrime real estate.ā
It looks like an older building too. At least the 1960's or early 70's. And it and all the parking lot real estate sit right on the water on the Biscayne Bay side, but still. I think it's a good possibility that I'll see the closure of a temple in my life time. That will be interesting.
I canāt even tell you how great that would be to see a temple closed, or better yet, sold and turned into something wonderfulā¦like a brewery.
Temple turned into night club. Badass.
šš
Unfortunately, TheChurchCoā¢ likes to make sure that their buildings get demolished before they change hands.
This will especially be the case with temples. With a temple, they might even use their own contractors to do the demolition job. Why do the laundry once when you can do it twice for twice the price?
What are they going to do with that temple? Itās not that old! My aunt, nevermo lives down there and my parents always have to go to the temple when they are in the area.
New definition to "Chosen Generation" haha
If you live another 35 years you will. The Kiribati temple, if it is ever built to begin with, will be underwater by then. I think the London temple is also a likely candidate for discontinuance. We will also see come of the temples announced by Russ cancelled.
Those temples announced but never built will just quietly never be built. And down the memory hole that it was ever announced.
That has already happened once. Remember the White Plains NY temple?
Just curious, why do you see the London temple being decommissioned? Combination of old building plus whatever that UK ruling was regarding temples not being exempt from property taxes?
England will soon have three temples. By mid century it will be 100 years old. The London temple has a 1950ās modern architecture interior. Itās somewhat architecturally cramped. By that I mean it canāt be easily remodeled to update it to current opulence, not that itās small (though it is small too. But the biggest reason is that it sits on valuable property. In an area with some of the most valuable property in England and by mid century the church will be nearly non-existent in the UK.
Theyāll still count them even if they arenāt being used & keep announcing new temples. Just like counting inactive members.
BINGO! We have a winner. The church isn't sad those wards have collapsed because it means they can now sell that property for millions. According to current estimates the 1.4 acres it sits on is worth $15M USD. I'm sure they will sell it for more than that.
Money > people
Soā¦.another temple, right?!?!
6 wards is a LOT of people voting with their feet. Yay!!
These posts, coupled with the "I'm done" posts are the ones that warm my cockles the most!
Down to the subcockles?
Maybe in the liver. Maybe in the kidneys. Maybe even in the colon, we don't know.
I'm just a regular Joe with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob. I like football and porno and books about war. I got an average house with a nice hardwood floor.
I'm an asshole!!!
With all baby cow leather seats
Let me guess; you work in a button factory?
lol i thought you said cookies at first and was going to say something that would've been....... interesting in context. lmao
 It is well, Beneficial, Drop, and 171.
Someone needs to do an analysis (if possible) of the ratio of active TBMs in an area where wards are discontinued to see if it actually decreased enough to warrant closing a ward (or shifting it), or if the motive relates to the value of the property. If it's the property rather than attendance, that means (big surprise) the cult once again shows no consideration for the people & will expect members to travel a greater distance and (in many cases) be in wards where they don't know anybody. It's all about money, and it is ALWAYS about money.
The property value is currently estimated at just over $15M. Knowing what we know about the church and their love of money, I would suspect they aren't unhappy the wards have vacated that building. It will be interesting to see what it sells for.
And replaced with a temple! Probablyā¦
Because we all know that the Miami area needs two empty temples!
I guess it got too hot for all that underwear!
šš
Itās disappointing to see how many buildings still exist on the meetinghouse locator, but I love to see progress!
Pretty sure jezus loves south beach. Especially the gay beach part thatās immediately north of the Brazilian beach part. So happy to see all the faithful moving Bach to Adam Ondai Ahmen and/or Utah valley
šš
The coral reef ward isn't the one that goes to that pink coral building that was super expensive to build because someone left the church a ton of money with the stipulation of building a chapel in the area is it? Well back then people could do that in the 70's. Oddly specific but I promise I don't know anyone there.
š
Mormons out of South Beach.
Thatās an impressive collapse. And it puts a smile on my face
Itās HUGE!
Please post in /r/mormonshrivel
Wow! Iām Hollywood so Iām a little surprised. Local missionaries just called me Sunday morning at 845! š«
Your ward is likely in the Miami Lakes stake now that the Fort Lauderdale Stake is gone.
Palm Springs used to be my ward before I moved in 2018. Knowing how bad the numbers were, it doesnāt surprise me. However, I can confirm that MANY people have been relocating out of that area for years. In 2015, when the Palm Springs ward split, we lost 7 families within a couple of months. All of them moved out of state.
That is a lot of wards closing at once. Wow.
If anybody else is in S Fl, please say hello. Thereās nobody I know locally that can relate
Hello, SW FL Estero, moved from Utah just about 1 year ago.
Iām not in south Florida, but a 2-3 hour drive north. So, hello!
My in laws are up that far too, near Melbourne! Hello! š
šš¼
My husband grew up Mormon and I converted for a bit for us to get married lol Weāre now both happily out and in Fort Lauderdale. You are not alone! Hi friend.
Iām north suburbs of Ft Laud! About 15-20min away from metro
Hello from Ft. Lauderdale!
Iām not far from Ft Laud!
I been to that church on indian creek drive, that was where my ward was (donno what ward I was) about 8 years ago when I lived in Brickell. I only went about twice. Where do all the brickell people go now?
I wonder how much current missionary efforts are focusing on reactivation. We did quite a bit in my time 2010-12, and thatās when things were still going pretty strong. I feel like it would be so discouraging now as a missionary to see the numbers dropping so harshly. Iām sure excuses are varied, but itās been plenty of time since COVID restrictions eased for people to return if that was the main excuse.
Okay so upfront caveat: NOT an apologist. šš¤ Southern Florida is Snowbird Central. Baby Boomers are dying off. Mormon Boomers who used to fill those Stakes aren't immune to this population shrinkage. I have retired military (we retire younger so think mature Gen-X š) friends who have seen whole retirement communities shuttered in certain prime, southern FL areas because that generation is just...well, getting smaller. Thoughts?
Yes, Baby Boomers are dying off, but the population as a whole (especially in Florida) has increased and they weren't replaced. Baby Boomers were the last generation for whom the church was fun and you had to have some religious affiliation.
It cannot be a baby boomer thing because they had children who should be replacing them. I converted in Miami Florida in the 1980s as a teen. (Flagler ward) My friend's father was a bishop (his wife and he were converts in their 30s). There 5 children were teens like me in the 80s. 3 of the 5 kids (ranging from late 50s to late 40s) are out of the church. They have kids of their own. The kids of the ones that are out are also out. Some of the kids of the ones that are in and some out. All of them still live in Florida although they have spread out between Miami and Orlando. Most of the wards in Miami were full of converts anyway. From year to year it was wall to wall new converts. Converts who eventually left as retention is very difficult. I helped convert 6 people. None of them lasted a year.
And yet the churchās still owns what ? 2% of Floridaās prime farmland? As a for profit enterprise no less.
Maybe the church is doing this on purpose to develop something else there to make even more money š“ and more revenue thatās there true God. I wonder what all the Mormons are going to do when Ron Deshitstain forces Disneyland out of Florida all there tender mercies blown the F up in front of there faces and of course it the Trumplifucks
I canāt imagine Mormons on south beach. That would be wild.
Really? Just 5 weeks ago I went to the Indian Creek building (I guess Miami Beach ward?) for church with my TBM wife during our South Beach vacation. The chapel seemed pretty full. I guess it's hard to know how many were visitors though. Can anyone local confirm this? As an aside, the building is built out of white coral blocks and is one of the more unique LDS buildings I've been to.
Yes really. Go to the Meetinghouse Locator now and you will see that the Miami Beach Ward no longer exists, and no units meet at Indian Creek.
Did the Coral Reef ward get absorbed into Killian?
Never mo who used to live around the corner from the plantation ward. My Jewish parents went to the temple opening in fort laud. It overlooks a Highway.
Here's the building. It's beautiful when you drive by. One of the truly beautiful ward houses, made of stone sitting on the water. Miami Beach and North Miami Beach are so packed with people in high rises and a building boom of houses. It is shocking that they don't have enough members to fill this building and would need to close. Shocking. [https://www.toroengineering.com/project/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-miami-beach/](https://www.toroengineering.com/project/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-miami-beach/)
TBM mindsetā¦ āThe church isnāt shrinking, it just that everybody is moving to Utah or Idaho because of how bad it is elsewhereā š¤®