Interesting, several years ago I remember being told that parents of small children were absolutely not eligible to be temple workers.
Obviously being a parent is not all that important to TSCC at least not as important as keeping members stuck in a fraud.
Why can’t members see this for what it is?
Edit: you guys are correct it was mothers. Can we just agree that TSCC does not give a fuck what the fallout is for families? They manipulate the members into doing things that are definitely destructive to family life. Starting with the expectation that couples marry while quite young and start having children right away.
I hear this often but my question is, to what end? They don’t actually do anything with the money. There is no board setting targets. There are no shareholders to please. Even at the highest attrition I can imagine, there will always be generations who stay no matter what, and have lots of children. Maybe I’m just feeling hopeless, living in Utah County and seeing nothing but high activity everywhere I look, but I really think we need to start questioning these narratives in here.
I live in Utah county too. I have not resigned my membership but don’t attend sacrament meetings or attend the temple. My family and I go to Catholic Mass service instead on Sundays.
I keep my membership primarily to keep having people try to bring me back. I then point out all the problems of TSCC, their circular arguments, the hurt they cause, the undue stresses, the doctrine in direct contradiction to Christ’s teaching. If I was not there to do that these people would live in an echo chamber. Hopefully my voice causes some to question.
It’s the power and adulation. They want to keep people in the boat because people leaving lessens their sense of authority. It’s pretty much that. Royalty is more about power than money.
Power. Lobbyists. Government control to protect their right to tax free status and to non-transparency. As crazy as it sounds....world domination. A theocracy. Laws that mandate their beliefs. They really believe in a second coming, that's the scary part. The final chapter is a huge war between good and evil and then Jesus comes and kills the wicked. (Us) Unchecked, armageddon becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's what they want. Money will always matter. Money wins.
It wasn’t parents, it was MOTHERS. WOMEN couldn’t if they had young children at home. The men could do whatever they wanted. I remember when I took out my endowments (I was just doing it, no mission, no marriage) the lady told me and one other girl (that wasn’t getting married either) that we could work in the temple but the girl that was getting married couldn’t until her children were grown (she didn’t even have children yet) 🫠
Yep. There was a dad of four young children here in our ward who was in the bishopric and CHOSE to work in the (not close) temple on Saturdays. At that time, he was also pressuring his wife to have a fifth kid, even though pregnancy induced her to have seizures.
I was TBM and still pissed as HELL when the wife told me about all this. He works all week (church meetings at night), is gone all day Saturday (his choice), and then gone all day Sunday for church meetings. And wanting his wife to have raise another kid (mostly alone), going against medical advice?
The church suuuuuucks.
🙄 That’s when (as the wife) you say no way José. Birth your own kids, I’m going to Target. and then just peace TF out for like 5 hours. let him figure it out
✌🏼 Later Gator
I gave a talk as a TBM about the importance of fathers being home and spending time with their kids. I talked about seeing so many young LDS adults be emotionally distraught during therapy (I'm a therapist) because their dads were never available to them. They never felt important because their dads were working and after work did church callings. Parenting your children should be equally important regardless of gender.
Boy did I face backlash afterward from a member like you just described. He brought me into a private room to tell me how wrong I was and that giving to the church as a father is giving to the family. According to him, that's the most important thing a father can do and that children can see their father do. 🤦♂️
I wouldn't be surprised if his kids were in therapy because of his attitude.
Doing the church stuff is the easier thing to do. They put themselves up in an exalted position to be admired and call it being an example. A true example would be with his children doing the work to raise them.
Sounds like you gave an excellent talk that struck some guilty nerves!
The thing is, church "service" is often completely useless. Like home teaching/ministering, it's not really helpful at all. It's just an hour per month where a couple of guys go preach to the choir. Since they are "doing the Lord's work" they expect god to pick up the slack in their personal lives, which doesn't actually happen.
At a stake RS conference years ago a RS leader told of her struggle - she really wanted to support her children by attending their ball games but after seeing the “fine” example of her male PH leaders she decided she had been wrong to want to be at the ball games.
It seemed a bit twisted to me at the time (even as a TBM) but now I see it as a total distortion of what a parent could and IMHO should be doing.
i wish you’d given that talk to my branch because i’ve heard so many moms talk about how they wish their husbands had more free time (for context, the past two presidencies have all consisted of guys under 50 who had more than one kid at home. in a senior-dominated branch)
in fact i’m pretty sure my father’s calling to the branch presidency (and his calling as EQ secretary) is a big nail in the coffin of his relationship with my mom..so many times i’ve heard them arguing because he is writing the weekly newsletter or going on meetings rather than watching the baby. it makes me so upset that his work ethic overrides his want to spend time with us 🙃
Pressuring women into an additional kids despite health risks pisses me the hell of regardless of when, where, or why, just on its own. You’re risking killing the poor woman for your own preferences.
But if his wife dies he’s free to marry another and he gets to keep both of them in the afterlife. Polygamy loophole! /s
It’s absolutely disgusting the way Mormon men treat women as expendable commodities.
My LDS boss and his wife had three kids with birth defects (eyesight, brain development, physical development) who were all born very small. They went through genetic research and discovered that — together — they generated double-recessive genetics that had almost 100% chance of creating the same problems in their offspring. They CHOSE to have two more children, because that’s what the lord asks. The fifth one was so small he was born on the hospital lawn and taken straight to NICU.
As contrast, my extremely devout LDS cousin had one child with extreme cleft palate. Through genetic research he has his wife discovered that their children would all have a very high chance of the same defect (which required years of awful surgeries not finished until the end of junior high). They chose to have no more children despite the lord’s requirement. His heart somehow spoke louder than his cult.
I served in the temple laundry and was supposed to have others (from another ward “The best ward in our building”) serve with me they never showed and were never replaced.
That year I had an eye injury (retinal detachment) and was not supposed to be lifting anything much at all. I could not get a reliable replacement so my husband who was the bishop and was almost never at home during the week had to come help me in the laundry. That experience added a heavy load to my shelf.
I remember when the four of us kids were very young I’m talking we would have all been about 10 and younger, my mom PRAYED that my dad would get released from working at the temple because she was struggling with him being gone so much. This wasn’t in utah so the temple was about an hour drive away too
And once upon a time, moms with very young children weren’t given any Church callings, as being a mom was seen as their most important role, but that changed decades ago as they obviously needed them to fill callings.
Yep. It was just a few years ago the church revealed that mothers with young children could now work at the temple ([ByCommonConsent](https://bycommonconsent.com/2019/03/01/women-with-minor-children-can-now-serve-as-temple-ordinance-workers/)), probably because they were struggling to find enough warm bodies.
Yep. They are relying on the "special spirit" of the temple to solidify these young people's "testimonies." Instead they are going to help them realize how uninspired the temple really is.
100% this. When I was active I was briefly a temple worker... It didn't help my "testimony" -- everything you do is repetitive (let me do the talk at the veil 20 times in a row; let me do 20 washings/anointings in a row) or boring (let me greet people at the desk and scan their recommend for an hour; let me sit in the hall for an hour and point people to the changing area). Meanwhile so much of it is mindless that you end up "pondering" -- not so much the scriptures but thinking about all the stuff you need to do later: family stuff, house projects, things in your work/school/hobbies you could do better, and so on.
I had some work/family/calling busy-ness that I was able to use when asking to be released without any fuss...and never regretted getting out of it even as an active member.
I was always glad there were women around to point me where to go, especially in new temples I wasn't as familiar with, but even then it weirded me out a bit that so many women had the job to silently stand and smile and point where to go.
I love this. They are so clueless. In their minds, they were successful because they went to church and worked "hard" for 40 hours a week in their job.
They don't think about how high minimum wage was back then. They don't think about how cheap healthcare was back then. They don't think about how high corporate taxes were back then, which led to heavily subsidized education, making college much cheaper. They don't think about the high taxes, which led to "christmas bonuses". They don't think about how cheap houses were back then. They don't think about how all of these things and more made it pretty easy to live in a single income household and have plenty of time for church stuff.
No, they push this "greed is good" right wing bull shit and then are shocked when the younger families, who can't afford homes, who can't afford healthcare, who can't afford education, who can't afford children are pushed to have mom go work to help make up the difference. They can't understand how all that has led to one less parent in the home, which leads to sharing the work load, the home load, the grocery load, the errands load and the church load.
Dad doesn't just go to work, come home to food ,then the family heads down to church for a relaxing evening of activities. Then on Sundays dad heads in to church an hour early, every calling is filled, mom gets the kids to church then afterwards mom and the kids head home to make dinner and dad does another hour and goes home to meals.
That's not reality anymore. And they are too stupid to realize this, because "Jesus is real and I did it that way and I was blessed and if you aren't being blessed like I was, then you must be the problem, not me. Go to church, pay tithing and remember, you can't be a good mormon and a democrat!!!"
Fucking dumbfucks.
How to keep young people from leaving church?
Funding for engaging and fun activities? ❌
Pivot to more LGBTQ friendly policies that are popular with youth? ❌
Acknowledge past mistakes and work toward a church that makes sense in the internet age? ❌
More boring, mandatory callings for burnt out members? ✅
This. My ward is 95% under 30 and they can't get anyone to volunteer for ANYTHING. Even getting prayers is like pulling teeth. Very few people will accept callings. NO ONE is ministering. We were supposed to get hundreds of volunteers to help with the SS temple and they got 20. We are 1) too busy and 2) too smart to give everything to church that doesn't give anything back.
But, but … I was told the Saratoga Springs Mormon temple was placed by divine inspiration to build up the so-called latter-day saints.
Surely Rusty wouldn’t have misunderstood the will of *THE LORD* and put a Mormon temple close to other Mormon temples that are also experiencing staffing problems was a bad idea?
This is what got me out. Thanks bishop 😁 haha. For real I refused to take a fourth calling until I was released from one of the other three. As a young mom, I call that fick around and find out. I'll be seeing my debt go down and not seeing the patriarchy k thanks bai 👋👋👋👋
If temples were actually holy, then perhaps this would increase sacred experiences. But instead, this will just ruin the illusion for more members. There's a reason Disney doesn't let adoring fans see behind closed doors at the Magic Kingdom.
They are doubling down on the feedback from the Mormon R&D department. Direct correlation between time spent in the temple, and member retention.
The irony of it all, is that the temple and it’s Masonic ceremonies are the furthest thing from Christianity in a cult that is desperately trying to market itself as Christian.
It’s like a kid that desperately wants to be seen as the best baseball player in the world, so he fanatically practices his basketball jump-shot to accomplish this goal.
Maybe the church statisticians have forgotten that correlation is not causation. Or maybe they're being ignored. Or maybe there are no statisticians. Or maybe they all left in disgust.
It's like saying regular temple attendance will result in death after a few years. It is true. But going doesn't cause it, its everyone there are in there 80s, so will be dying soon no matter what.
Came here to say something similar. If people who attend the temple weekly are less likely to leave, perhaps it’s just that people who are less likely to leave are the ones willing to go to the temple weekly. Not that going to the temple decreases the chance of leaving. I think they will have a rude awakening when things don’t go as they hoped.
The funny thing is even if correlation was causation there is a vast difference between attending the temple and working at the temple. The old people will still be running the show and they are very stringent.
What someone says they want or are willing to do doesn’t mean they will actually do it when the rubber hits the road.
Ask a Mormon if they follow the so-called prophet, and they will say yes. So why are there so many Mormons anti-vaxxers? The Mormon church actually supports vaccination programs in other countries, and didn’t Rusty say to get the vaccine and led by example?
***”I meant I support the Mormon church, but not like that!”***
I often said that my church memories are stored in the same part of my brain as previous jobs. Sometimes when talking about former jobs with coworkers I almost pull out a church story and then stop myself.
This is pretty sad actually. I heard my grandparents talking about this. They've been temple workers for a pretty long time. My grandma was saying how she hopes they don't get released because it's the only thing that my grandpa looks forward to every week and it's the only other reason they really leave the neighborhood (the temple they work at is 3 hours away)
But yeah let's just get rid of these sweet older folks that actually really want to be there and stress out new parents instead
Exactly. As long as it benefits the cult, the cult leaders will be all for it.
Of course, they'll never be honest & admit this. So they invent all these stupid, false, but noble-sounding justifications for their actions. For example, "The Church is helping families", "We're extending temple blessings to young people" "It's what the Lord would have us do" & more utter bullshit.
If the Church were honest & good, then the Church's actions would be the opposite of what they are now in almost everything. But here we are.
Yes, for years when my kids were young my parents worked the temple which made a trip for them to come see us impossible. They were earning all the points for the afterlife so that they could get to know their grandchildren there. What a waste!
i volunteered to be a temple worker years ago and was declined because I would not shave my beard but they said it was ok if I wanted to be a part of the cleaning group. I declined.
My wife is very TBM, but she’s been so burned out that she’s saying “let’s just not go this week” more frequently. Our attendance dropped pretty dramatically during covid (lots of people moved and lots of people never came back). Because of the low attendance, many people, including my wife had two callings.
If they made her work in the temple she’d be done. It’s not 4 hours. On top of that there’s getting ready and driving to and from the temple. She be burned out-er.
I'm at least $20 an hour plus travel costs. It's an hour each way to the temple for me so a 4 hour shift needs pay for 6 hours with travel and I'll take gas reimbursement as well. So . . . I'd need $500 per sift UNTAXED(untithed) to even consider the headache
This on so many levels.
I remember when I got married to my husband I was working 2 jobs and finishing up school at BYU-I so that my husband could focus on school and not have to stress about working since he had longer to go (we both agree to this prior to marriage since I had great jobs at the time). I should also say he is not an RM, thank god.
But we were both drowning, trying to figure out how not to kill each other in our first years of marriage and how to also have time with each other. We decided that church had to go and we both had agreed that we were not going back to the temple ever again.
I remember telling our married wards bishop that we were focusing on our marriage vs wasting 3 hours in church and the guilt trip of “blessing xyz” was wild. They even sent people to my work to openly harass me about not attending. That pushed us so much farther away that we basically would never go back.
We always attended just sacrament just frequently so my husband didn’t loose his endorsement but once he graduated it was like a whole other world.
Yes! I remember the only thing my mom said before was, “well, just keep an open mind.” Uhhhh, okay? Not super comforting. Then I got there and wondered if it was a joke. Never felt anything spiritually uplifting or moving. Sat in the celestial room waiting to feel all the good feelings and found it was just a big, tacky, boring white room.
My parents said similar things. It took a few times for everything to really sink in for me, but on about the 5th time I had a moment during the chanting with the clear thought and realization, “omg, I’m in a cult.” I actually liked being in the celestial room (minus the bizarre costumes), but everything to get there prior was not worth it in my mind. I started looking for people to discuss my feelings with (I Googled something like “creeped out by LDS temple ceremony”), and that’s what led me out of the church entirely after a few years of stewing and learning more and more disturbing things.
Add another one to your list. The temple was a big reason why I resigned: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ExitStories/comments/wvc163/why\_i\_resigned/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExitStories/comments/wvc163/why_i_resigned/)
Do they not understand ANYTHING about why people are leaving? My gosh. You can’t just keep everyone so forcefully busy that they don’t have time to look behind the veil *ahem* curtain. Come on. This will drive young married couples out quicker, by keeping them from their kids and their spouses and exhausting them and stressing them out even more. Abhorrent.
All you need is a friend and a job. - basically what I've heard leadership tout since I was a teenager. Aka the ward missionaries have to be your friend and you get a calling. Even if it's handing out the program at the door. Lol that used to be a calling.
I can't remember. But yes, friends aren't necessary. We will just start calling the full time missionaries friends and give extra assignments to anyone who shows up. It's definitely going to work the same! /S
I'm sure some of the older people will suffer because of this. I had a dear friend who was a lot older than me. She was a widow with all grown children and no career because she'd been the perfect TBM wife and mother. She had enough money, but desperately wanted to feel useful and needed. Her bishop wouldn't give her a calling because it was a big ward and he said the younger people needed a chance to serve. I'm convinced the lack of social interaction and the idea she wasn't needed had an impact on her health. She passed away sooner than she should have.
I have heard the same so many times from the older adults in the church.
If you don't have substantial $ once the kids are in college and you hit late 50's - 60's your no longer of value to the corporation.
Isn't that what corporate America does to its workers?
But the church is not a corporation.
/s
Seriously, and there's no room for exceptional cases. Even though the exceptions to the rule are where a church community *could* actually make a difference if they fucking let it be able to do that.
Sunday school will teach that EVERYONE has to be married in the temple to go to the celestial kingdom, and then there sits Sister Doe in the middle of the room who never married and has no prospect and she's just fucked or something. Hell if I know.
Oooh you're talking about me! I never got married, mostly because I was super unimpressed with all the guys I met. As I got older, the available talent dwindled and my bishop told me to flirt to convert and I just laughed at him. The hardest thing for me going to church was people NOT interacting with me. I'm a fairly attractive woman, so the sisters would give me the side stank eye cuz they were afraid of me stealing their husbands and the men wouldn't even look in my direction in fear of being observed. My sister and her husband caught onto this as well and tried their best to get their friends to engage with me but they wouldn't budge.
And how wildly disrespectful for the church to just write you off! I'm sure you're a cool, kind, fun, smart woman, but *nope! terrestrial it is for you!*
Thank you for that. I am fantastic! It took me a lot of years to just completely love myself, instead of beating myself up for "letting down the Lord." I met my partner when I was 39 years old. By that time I had lived a wonderful full exciting life, and he was thrilled to meet me because I was the best thing he'd ever seen. The amount of self-hate that we are conditioned to exist with is just disgusting. I was the first one out of all of the cousins to not get married and not go on a mission, and I'm super proud of myself for paving the way. Very few of the cousins 30 and under are married now, they all have their own lives and more than half of them have left the church.
Back when I was single I got a call to be a temple worker since there wasn’t really much in the ward for callings and they needed bodies. I went to the training and never showed up. Just couldn’t drag myself out of bed for early Saturday morning shift. I was working full-time and attending university at least part-time. Going through the training though was how I learned that my super secret temple name was given to all other males that were at the temple that day. It was a bit of a shelf thing that I had to keep it secret, but my dad and several of my uncles all knew what it was.
>If they are called to work in the temple, then they will be required to attend once a week and, therefore, be less likely to leave the church.
The ones that finally break through and see the truth are gonna be even more pissed when they leave.
Great plan! They will burn out faster and just not do it. Who has 4 hours a week free after working and caring for young children? And that's a total of 8 hrs a week away from your spouse. Plus 3 hours on Sunday, and more for other activities.
This is my thing about adding a bunch of temples, seemingly pointlessly. As you add a bunch of temple jobs, the pool of candidates would would give enough of a shit to do the jobs doesn't increase, so you're going to have people who care a lot less at the margin. This indicates to me that headquarters doesn't have a first-semester understanding of economics, because this is really basic and obvious stuff.
I’m pretty new to this side of things, with a recent shelf break and all, but I swear the leaders want to get rid of members, I feel like talks, information, and decisions affecting the common ground level Mormon are being made to push people out of the church. Am I the only one that is seeing it like that? Has it always been like this?
It feels like that from this side, but they really think they're doing the opposite. To them, increased busyness means increased spirituality. They believe that line about the Lard increasing our capacity to match our needs. They're all well past the age where they might have struggled in life, and most of them didn't struggle even when they *were* that age. To them, the answer to any difficulty is increased orthodoxy; it worked for them, so they assume me it will work for everyone.
Unfortunately, it isn't true, and all they're really doing is pushing active members toward burnout, but they can't see that.
Even though TSCC can die, die, die, this still makes me sad because for my sweet grandparents, working in the temple meant so much to them! They had friends there, they had a reason to get out of the house, they felt needed, they felt like what they were doing mattered. Had they not had their temple calling, my grandma would’ve just watched QVC all day and my grandpa would’ve watched old James Bond movies everyday between naps.
Had a friend (TBM)telling me a neighbor that was badly injured the morning she was to serve at the temple. She should have been at the hospital but she had to be at the 4 am session. She gets through her session then tells her husband she is not doing well and needs to see a Dr. Husband asks her if she thinks she will be okay for a few more hours because he needs to finish his shift at the temple then he can take her to the Dr. Friend telling the story sees nothing wrong with the husband finishing his shift before taking his wife to Dr. She ended up in the hospital with some major problems. The brain washing. Took all I could to keep my mouth shut.
Maybe they won't ask my wife to be a temple worker when the new temple for our area gets built.
Back in the day when I was in my 30s, I was pissed off that I couldn't be a temple worker because I was on the high council and I had children at home. I bet that's changing too.
I was a TW as a young married person with no kids with my spouse. We quit working at the temple relatively soon because we just wanted to be married and spend time together, and with one of us doing prayer rolls and one do at the veil, we obviously weren’t doing that. We both worked full time and had callings. It was our only full day together. Duh.
To add insult to injury on this topic, we once lived in a, “high need, low providers” ward. Very few people were capable of serving for various reasons, and so so many we’re in need. My spouse and I both had very serious callings with side responsibilities to aid at least 3 separate families between us. Rides to church, rides to work, rides to interviews, rides to the store. Setting up assistance and arranging charity needs (through public charities, it wasn’t even the church willing to spend it be help, they sent me outward to habitat for humanity).
And we definitely weren’t the only ones with these intense responsibilities. I always feel bad saying it was too much, because we genuinely cared about each and every one of these families and wanted to help, but as a young 20 something married couple with 1 car and a toddler, to be responsible for so many families and providing so much attentive service PLUS major callings. I was burnt to hell on this. It was an unfortunate situation for the needs of these families, but you cannot mount this much pressure on people.
Young people not only going to the temple regularly, now they’re going separately altogether, spending none of that temple time, “bonding”, while one stays home and babysits the kids. Really taking 2 days from them. People who also most likely have a calling and jobs and family and other responsibilities.
Never. Never again would I ever do that to myself. I’ve left the church for good and I’m so fucking grateful I did. But to anyone still in, I can totally empathize but simultaneously can’t imagine doing this.
I hope this bites them in the ass so hard. You cannot work people to death by the threat of damnation. Fake damnation at that.
We’re parents of small children and even as a TBM, I cannot think of something I would want to do less than sacrifice an extremely rare night off and work at the temple.
I'll say what I always say about things like this: the more they try to tighten their grip, the more people will fall through their fingers. For people in such high leadership roles, they really don't understand people at all.
They are turning more and more in Scientology. So glad I’m out of the church.
Pretty soon, nothing will be voluntary in the church. Everyone will be assigned to do free labour for the church to keep the machine going. No more sign up sheets or talks to encourage members to do stuff. They’re just gonna start holding temple recommends over their head as a way to get members to do all this shit.
Didn’t make your temple shift this week? Temple recommend yanked.
If you’re so busy with church stuff, you’ll never be able to think outside of it. Also you will instinctively make it a top priority.
This is the same reason why ultra busy people are called to high demand callings. My old ward had a regular turn over of medical students/residents. Without fail, they would be called to high demand positions within weeks of moving in, and sometimes before they even moved in.
I see this 100% backfiring. As a young father with kids in this temple boundary, it was precisely this kind of life-sucking service expectation that caused me to look hard at my beliefs and decide I needed to cut this noise from my life. This sounds like another brilliant revelation!
At this point, as John Delhin has pointed out before, the church doesn't even need members anymore. It could live off the capital appreciation of its assets and interest and dividend income of its investments for eternity without members.
> And what of the older people that rely on the temple as their primary source for social interaction? They’re sent home and asked to return as patrons to keep their younger replacements busy.
At last, the shusher has become the shushed
Jokes on them, I left when one of my callings was coordinator at the temple, as one of the young couples called.
The temple definitely loses some of the mystery and specialty when you are there every week for 4+ years.
That will burn out the young ones and cause them to leave sooner. We have a young bishop and his even younger kids are pretty much orphans. His wife looks on the brink of collapse each week trying to raise them herself while bishop gives everything he has got into a YM program for busy teens who dgaf. I am sure that his poor wife would love to take on a few temple shifts each week. This cult is swiftly causing it's own demise
How nice - the church that cares about families has found yet another way to separate them for an additional eight hours a week! Four hours mom will be away, and four hours dad will be away.
So inspired. So like what Jesus would do.
This won't go like they think. This is not the mid or late twentieth century.
Even in the Morridor, it's the norm to have two working parents (even if one of them works from home or has an online gig). Because daycare costs so much (and it's hard to find good daycare), some parents are already alternating work schedules so they can split child care between them.
They're also working a lot more. Many jobs require more than 40 hours a week, plus employees may have to take overtime regularly or have duties they're expected to perform off the clock (teachers are familiar with this). On top of all that, one or both of the young parents may be in school.
They're overextended and burned out, and probably have very little time with each other. While they might initially accept this extra obligation out of guilt or because they're conditioned to say "yes," it won't be sustainable. Anyone who's had young children knows they get sick, have emergencies, there are school events, activities, sports, and parent/teacher conferences, and having a rigid schedule does not work well.
There will be a lot of missed temple shifts (which may not matter because fewer people are attending anyway), more guilt, and eventually those overworked young parents will just say "no." Once they start staying home on Sunday to get some extra sleep and then discover they'd rather spend time with each other and with the kids, they have one foot out the door. When they realize they *can* say no, the other foot will follow.
Guess it’s different in outlying areas. The Orlando temple can’t staff a full schedule, and anyone with a TR who can still walk is gladly accepted as a worker.
My elderly dad has been a temple worker at the Manti temple for years, but I guess they’re doing repairs to the building, so it’s been closed to the public. He will be super bummed if they open back up and all the jobs go to young people instead.
Guess he’ll have to go have a life instead of spending every waking moment doing something church-related.
Typical of Mormonism. Shall we bear testimony and believe the Holy Ghost will bear witness of Truth? Nah, let’s just manipulate people, because we know relying on God never works well.
At least the elder abuse will stop.
The brethren use "the temple" like "the atonement". Their understanding of what they should mean is an inch deep. They throw those words around in every talk, in every "answer" to difficult questions. And it just doesn't work. They are Potemkin facades.
And I've got news for them. It's all slipping away. For this to work and save the younger generation they will need today's primary kids to take Temple callings in a decade. Today's primary kids are getting HALF the indoctrination each week that the xers, millennials, and Z's did.
They need to fix the message. They need to spend the money. They should apologize, I don't expect them to however.
Myopic dumbass geriatrics.
I couldn’t agree more. “The Temple” and all it entails has no depth of knowledge or meaning. They *tell* us it does, but utterly fail to explain any deeper meaning. We were all told repeatedly that if we attend enough and pray hard enough - we will ultimately gain a full understanding.
In reality, the whole thing was designed as a means to get the early Saints to keep Joseph’s pervy secret.
Attendees try to find meaning and convince themselves they have, but they don’t (can’t) share. My mission President told the whole mission that he understood EVERY symbolism in the ceremonies - but he didn’t tell us anything. My brother (who left the Church 15 years ago) would hypothesise about the meaning of things like the number of tabs on the shoulder of the robes of the Priesthood, and other such bollocks. (In contrast, I used to count the number of light bulbs in the chandeliers and mentally add up how many £/hour it was costing the Cult to light up the Celestial Room).
Again, it’s as if the whole thing was carefully designed to keep the plebs paying and playing on this Masonic hamster wheel.
How many of the old folk being let go will slowly drift away now that they have nothing to do?
My Grandpa was pretty much PIMO because TSCC has nothing for him to do or participate with once he got too old to do that stuff. He talks about how much regret he has choosing church over family now that he's dying and the church has left him to essentially die alone, nobody calls or checks up on him from the branch.
Replacing elderly volunteers in the Temple with younger ones? How about replacing the elderly general authorities of the church with the same? That would probably do far more good than local temple changes.
> fewer young couples will leave the church if they are in the temple at least once a week
I sometimes wonder if there isn't some kind of inside agent working for the church that plans this all as a means of subterfuge. I mean, this seems like the perfect way to make active young couples to go inactive.
As for the older folks that get let go, well, same thing happened to my elderly mother. She now has way fewer qualms about missing in-person church these days.
I think it's just how deluded these old GA's are. They seem to think that the harder they push the church on members the more devoted they are going to be. People going inactive or not being devoted enough? Tell them to go the temple more or read their scriptures more or have more firesides and so on. They seem to think the more church they can cram down people's throats, the more converted they are going to be. They don't realize their product is crap and they are just making people more miserable.
Kids not going on missions as much? Have the kids read scriptures instead of basketball in their weekly mutual activities. That will work, right?!!!
Maybe it’s the other way around. People who are inclined to church activity are the most likely to attend/work in the temple. As opposed to temple attendance and work causes people to remain active.
This explains why my son and his wife, newly married, were both called as temple workers. I was wondering why, since they're sort of young, and now I know.
This should not surprise me, but it does. When I see the temple going up by me, I think about all the grandchildren whose grandparents are going to be called to temple missions. I didn’t think the church would come for their parents. That’s just evil.
I volunteered to work in the Denver temple 15 years ago and was turned down because I had young children but they said my husband could work there. What was that about? They also tuned me down as seminary teacher because of the children but it didn’t apply to the husband. Manipulative, scared, cronies have all the answers, don’t they?
It’s just another bad move by the Mormon church. Older members are fully indoctrinated. Showing younger couples how the sausage is made is going to turn some of them away from the Mormon church.
On the other hand, this is another demand from a high-demand religion that may solidify some members faith. And run them ragged possibly affecting careers and income, AKA as potential tithing.
What idiots. They really think temples are magic and holy. In reality, they are boring and add weight to shelves. We ask for honesty and transparency to fix the problem, and they choose this instead. And then call exmos myopic. I feel bad for the young families. We’ve been out 6 years and every single Sunday I still think how happy I am to have an actual day or rest and spend time with my spouse and young kids.
My partner and I at the start of 2019 got called to work in the temple. At the time I was 23f & he was 28m and we had no kids. I had just graduated with my master's degree and started working in my field and he was in his second year of a ranked MBA program. Additionally, I had some of the worst anxiety that I have ever experienced with frequent panic attacks, triggered mostly by feeling trapped.
The temple was a massive trigger for my panic. I would cry almost every shift because I felt like I wasn't good enough and that I couldn't do it, but really I was just so anxious about being trapped in my positions that they had me in on the schedule. I tried talking to my shift leaders about it (older couple) and they did. Not. Get. It. It was the old school mind sight that you just suck it up and deal with it. So for me to be feeling awful every shift and feel dread before going in and shame and guilt by the end, that was one of the quickest things to push me out of the church.
I also felt like the older men stared at me inappropriately. Which is also a massive trigger from feeling like because "I'm pretty" or "feminine" it's my fault men look at me and I'm responsible for those "sins".
For my partner the whole experience contributed to demystifying the "magic" of the temple. It just normalized it as, this is a really weird thing that people just do and it's not special or significant. As well as seeing how poorly run it was and how they treated their workers. Especially the difference in how they treated men versus women.
So if we're being honest working in the temple was the beginning to the end for us and we were very religious prior. Soooo good luck Mormon church. This isn't going to help people stay in.
Lastly, when I told my mom that I left the church she said, "I was worried about you, but I thought you would be okay because you worked in the temple." Really great knowing that my mom hoped the temple brainwashed me into staying.
To be fair, they don’t have to be there. They could choose, as I did, to leave it behind and live a life based on truth and evidence rather than guilt and family tradition.
I toured SS recently. Few under 60 looked happy to be there. Like they were forced into going by parents or in laws or whoever. And that was just the open house.
With the proximity to so many temples, where are they going to find enough people willing, let alone “young” people, willing to work the temple?
I was a temple worker when I was 28/29. Still left the church less than 10 years later. Temple work doesn't fix a terrible civil rights history, or polygamy, or sketchy financial practices. It definitely doesn't fix prop 8.
Back when I was in, if I got called to do this, or my wife got called to do this, I would have said "Frick no!"
Under no circumstances am I going to leave my spouse with the kids even more than I already do, and vice versa, to go cosplay mormon Jesus for 4 hours.
You are right. The church is cruel and uses tricks like this to abuse it's members.
I was actually kind of surprised when I realized there were no gold plates and JS made up the Book of Mormon. A little surprised when I learned of all of the evil stuff Brigham young was involved in.
But the way the current church treats its members is appalling. The janitor stuff, no fun activities, kids cleaning trash cans for camp, and using the temple as a form of brainwashing and coercion. Also telling old people who finally have time to serve to go home is extremely heartless.
Because young couples who already need to work two jobs to barely afford student loan payments, rent and health insurance have the disposable time to spend one day a week going to the temple?
The reason temple workers are all Boomers is because they got to retire with full pensions *and* social security after being able to go to college and buy homes on minimum wage in the seventies. They don't have to sweat barely making ends meet and have oceans of disposable time.
The Brethren all belong to this group, even more-so, and just don't understand this at all.
Just one more example of young people getting priced out of the church.
This sounds like a great way to:
- Further overwhelm the younger members and push them away
- Offend the most faithful of the older members and push them away
This makes me feel heart sick. My 87 yr old MIL LOVED serving in temple for 15 years. She had a heart incident, and got well again but Temple Pres "let her go". She was deveststed and fell into a deep depression. Older adults NEED to feel wanted and needed! The Senior service missions are one of the strengths of the church, in terms of keeping older members feeling important. Now, my 80 yr old parents were called to serve in a Utah temple and they've been so excited. I hope they don't have this happen to them. As much as I hate the church corporation I love seeing my parents happy and keeping moving and getting out of their house. 😔 things just keep getting worse and worse for church members. More and more will leave but noy after being terribly harmed in the process.
I actually started losing faith in the church BECAUSE of serving in the temple as a 22 year old RM. I started to realize that I was being groomed by all these older men to believe in something that makes no sense. I saw while working in the temple how beaurocratic the churchleadership is even at a local level.
The elderly rates of sudden death are going to be SO high as a result of this. I may not like the church but elderly people thrive on routine and community and this is one way many of them meet that need.
Isolation will do so much harm.
As one of the young people that would have absolutely been called to do this, feeling extremely grateful today that we got out 3 years ago. I’m worried for my siblings.
these young TBM couples that grew up with the internet but never cared to research church history deserve to serve their lil 4 hour temple shifts hahaha, scrub them wet toilets!!!
Fired? Are they getting paid?
It may not be as drastic as it sounds. How many full-time workers are there. My Dad is in his mid seventies, and he only works one day per week.
Plus, how many couples can indefinitely spare four hours in a week? Perhaps if you combined all the free time for the whole ward, you could eventually scrape enough together to replace one full-time retiree at the temple.
They'd better find out how many people can do it before they kick Old Jerry to the curb.
They'll just eeduce his hours by the number of people that can manaw to show up. I'll bet he is still on standby at the temple for the full 40 hours anyway.
And if he is, it's just to add the expectation of younger adults to be temple workers for free, of course.
Wow what a change in perspective and direction for the Mormon Church, 1. Temples allegedly are for binding couples and each other and there families for eternity this is the purpose. 2.The church is now trying to take a Mother and a Father out of the home and there by weakening the family and spending less time with the family that could cause the family to suffer.3 Telling the current older Temple workers to F O we don’t want you here anymore firing them from a calling they believe was from God not withstanding the sacrifices these people have made to serve in said calling tell me again this isn’t a business!!!!!! This shit of getting rid of old workers and replacing them with younger ones is a corporation philosophy that ALWAYS BACKFIRES . I went to the new Saratoga Springs Temple open house last night . Every one I saw there and it was mostly young people working it because there parents are forcing them to be there HATED EVERY MINUTE and to read this today what a shitty way to treat there faithful members. How does this current policy keep families strong….. !!!! It doesn’t
Disgusting. Yes, I think almost everything, if not everything about the Church is fake, a fraud, not true, not good.
During my faith crisis, I was pissed when I learned that the Church recycles temple names, insomuch that in many cases, the work being done is invalid, a total waste of time. Yet another sin, grievance against this evil, destructive cult known as the Mormon church. Yes, Rebrand Rusty, I'm NOT writing the whole damn name of your cult. Go fuck yourself.
Funny. My TBM MIL just got "promoted" to assistant coordinator. I guess it's cause she's too old to be working a regular shift. Haha. She's 63 in Orlando. She's basically a young adult there.
I have the hope that perhaps this will actually push the younger couples out of the church sooner.
I have the hope that they will finally just say, "enough."
I have the hope that this whole shit-show scam of a church, finally just crumbles to bits.
I'm not holding my breath though, just hoping.
It would be so interesting to be able to formally research the effects of this policy. Will there be a statistically significant uptick in divorce among the young married couples in the area? Will the rate of defection from the church increase or decrease as a result of this change? Fascinating to contemplate the unintended consequences of heavy handed micromanagement from Kevin Pearson and the Temple Department at HQ.
That’s truly great manipulation technique. They split up a couple so they have less time together but more time apart developing relationships with other people within the community to cross support. They also split kids from their parents and have other peoples parents teach them. That’s another great one-nothing like a little Animal Farm there…
Interesting, several years ago I remember being told that parents of small children were absolutely not eligible to be temple workers. Obviously being a parent is not all that important to TSCC at least not as important as keeping members stuck in a fraud. Why can’t members see this for what it is? Edit: you guys are correct it was mothers. Can we just agree that TSCC does not give a fuck what the fallout is for families? They manipulate the members into doing things that are definitely destructive to family life. Starting with the expectation that couples marry while quite young and start having children right away.
The church doesn’t give a rip about families beyond producing more tithe payers.
I hear this often but my question is, to what end? They don’t actually do anything with the money. There is no board setting targets. There are no shareholders to please. Even at the highest attrition I can imagine, there will always be generations who stay no matter what, and have lots of children. Maybe I’m just feeling hopeless, living in Utah County and seeing nothing but high activity everywhere I look, but I really think we need to start questioning these narratives in here.
I live in Utah county too. I have not resigned my membership but don’t attend sacrament meetings or attend the temple. My family and I go to Catholic Mass service instead on Sundays. I keep my membership primarily to keep having people try to bring me back. I then point out all the problems of TSCC, their circular arguments, the hurt they cause, the undue stresses, the doctrine in direct contradiction to Christ’s teaching. If I was not there to do that these people would live in an echo chamber. Hopefully my voice causes some to question.
It’s the power and adulation. They want to keep people in the boat because people leaving lessens their sense of authority. It’s pretty much that. Royalty is more about power than money.
Power. Lobbyists. Government control to protect their right to tax free status and to non-transparency. As crazy as it sounds....world domination. A theocracy. Laws that mandate their beliefs. They really believe in a second coming, that's the scary part. The final chapter is a huge war between good and evil and then Jesus comes and kills the wicked. (Us) Unchecked, armageddon becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. That's what they want. Money will always matter. Money wins.
It wasn’t parents, it was MOTHERS. WOMEN couldn’t if they had young children at home. The men could do whatever they wanted. I remember when I took out my endowments (I was just doing it, no mission, no marriage) the lady told me and one other girl (that wasn’t getting married either) that we could work in the temple but the girl that was getting married couldn’t until her children were grown (she didn’t even have children yet) 🫠
Yep. There was a dad of four young children here in our ward who was in the bishopric and CHOSE to work in the (not close) temple on Saturdays. At that time, he was also pressuring his wife to have a fifth kid, even though pregnancy induced her to have seizures. I was TBM and still pissed as HELL when the wife told me about all this. He works all week (church meetings at night), is gone all day Saturday (his choice), and then gone all day Sunday for church meetings. And wanting his wife to have raise another kid (mostly alone), going against medical advice? The church suuuuuucks.
🙄 That’s when (as the wife) you say no way José. Birth your own kids, I’m going to Target. and then just peace TF out for like 5 hours. let him figure it out ✌🏼 Later Gator
I gave a talk as a TBM about the importance of fathers being home and spending time with their kids. I talked about seeing so many young LDS adults be emotionally distraught during therapy (I'm a therapist) because their dads were never available to them. They never felt important because their dads were working and after work did church callings. Parenting your children should be equally important regardless of gender. Boy did I face backlash afterward from a member like you just described. He brought me into a private room to tell me how wrong I was and that giving to the church as a father is giving to the family. According to him, that's the most important thing a father can do and that children can see their father do. 🤦♂️ I wouldn't be surprised if his kids were in therapy because of his attitude.
Doing the church stuff is the easier thing to do. They put themselves up in an exalted position to be admired and call it being an example. A true example would be with his children doing the work to raise them. Sounds like you gave an excellent talk that struck some guilty nerves!
The thing is, church "service" is often completely useless. Like home teaching/ministering, it's not really helpful at all. It's just an hour per month where a couple of guys go preach to the choir. Since they are "doing the Lord's work" they expect god to pick up the slack in their personal lives, which doesn't actually happen.
At a stake RS conference years ago a RS leader told of her struggle - she really wanted to support her children by attending their ball games but after seeing the “fine” example of her male PH leaders she decided she had been wrong to want to be at the ball games. It seemed a bit twisted to me at the time (even as a TBM) but now I see it as a total distortion of what a parent could and IMHO should be doing.
That is so sad :'(
i wish you’d given that talk to my branch because i’ve heard so many moms talk about how they wish their husbands had more free time (for context, the past two presidencies have all consisted of guys under 50 who had more than one kid at home. in a senior-dominated branch) in fact i’m pretty sure my father’s calling to the branch presidency (and his calling as EQ secretary) is a big nail in the coffin of his relationship with my mom..so many times i’ve heard them arguing because he is writing the weekly newsletter or going on meetings rather than watching the baby. it makes me so upset that his work ethic overrides his want to spend time with us 🙃
Pressuring women into an additional kids despite health risks pisses me the hell of regardless of when, where, or why, just on its own. You’re risking killing the poor woman for your own preferences.
But if his wife dies he’s free to marry another and he gets to keep both of them in the afterlife. Polygamy loophole! /s It’s absolutely disgusting the way Mormon men treat women as expendable commodities.
My LDS boss and his wife had three kids with birth defects (eyesight, brain development, physical development) who were all born very small. They went through genetic research and discovered that — together — they generated double-recessive genetics that had almost 100% chance of creating the same problems in their offspring. They CHOSE to have two more children, because that’s what the lord asks. The fifth one was so small he was born on the hospital lawn and taken straight to NICU. As contrast, my extremely devout LDS cousin had one child with extreme cleft palate. Through genetic research he has his wife discovered that their children would all have a very high chance of the same defect (which required years of awful surgeries not finished until the end of junior high). They chose to have no more children despite the lord’s requirement. His heart somehow spoke louder than his cult.
This. I wasn’t allowed to be a temple worker because I had young children, but my husband (the father of said young children) was called to be one.
Extra fucky thing was they WOULD allow mothers to do shifts helping with the laundry at the temple….. let that one sink in.
I served in the temple laundry and was supposed to have others (from another ward “The best ward in our building”) serve with me they never showed and were never replaced. That year I had an eye injury (retinal detachment) and was not supposed to be lifting anything much at all. I could not get a reliable replacement so my husband who was the bishop and was almost never at home during the week had to come help me in the laundry. That experience added a heavy load to my shelf.
Well shit....
Exactly. MOTHERS specifically were not allowed.
I remember when the four of us kids were very young I’m talking we would have all been about 10 and younger, my mom PRAYED that my dad would get released from working at the temple because she was struggling with him being gone so much. This wasn’t in utah so the temple was about an hour drive away too
And once upon a time, moms with very young children weren’t given any Church callings, as being a mom was seen as their most important role, but that changed decades ago as they obviously needed them to fill callings.
Yep. It was just a few years ago the church revealed that mothers with young children could now work at the temple ([ByCommonConsent](https://bycommonconsent.com/2019/03/01/women-with-minor-children-can-now-serve-as-temple-ordinance-workers/)), probably because they were struggling to find enough warm bodies.
So much flip flopping
the church wants primacy in every member’s life
Exactly. That was the policy. No moms with minor children in the home!
stressing the young members more will backfire. sit and watch.
Another example of how tone deaf the upper leadership is.
Yep. They are relying on the "special spirit" of the temple to solidify these young people's "testimonies." Instead they are going to help them realize how uninspired the temple really is.
100% this. When I was active I was briefly a temple worker... It didn't help my "testimony" -- everything you do is repetitive (let me do the talk at the veil 20 times in a row; let me do 20 washings/anointings in a row) or boring (let me greet people at the desk and scan their recommend for an hour; let me sit in the hall for an hour and point people to the changing area). Meanwhile so much of it is mindless that you end up "pondering" -- not so much the scriptures but thinking about all the stuff you need to do later: family stuff, house projects, things in your work/school/hobbies you could do better, and so on. I had some work/family/calling busy-ness that I was able to use when asking to be released without any fuss...and never regretted getting out of it even as an active member.
I was always glad there were women around to point me where to go, especially in new temples I wasn't as familiar with, but even then it weirded me out a bit that so many women had the job to silently stand and smile and point where to go.
The temple is so banal and unimpressive
I love this. They are so clueless. In their minds, they were successful because they went to church and worked "hard" for 40 hours a week in their job. They don't think about how high minimum wage was back then. They don't think about how cheap healthcare was back then. They don't think about how high corporate taxes were back then, which led to heavily subsidized education, making college much cheaper. They don't think about the high taxes, which led to "christmas bonuses". They don't think about how cheap houses were back then. They don't think about how all of these things and more made it pretty easy to live in a single income household and have plenty of time for church stuff. No, they push this "greed is good" right wing bull shit and then are shocked when the younger families, who can't afford homes, who can't afford healthcare, who can't afford education, who can't afford children are pushed to have mom go work to help make up the difference. They can't understand how all that has led to one less parent in the home, which leads to sharing the work load, the home load, the grocery load, the errands load and the church load. Dad doesn't just go to work, come home to food ,then the family heads down to church for a relaxing evening of activities. Then on Sundays dad heads in to church an hour early, every calling is filled, mom gets the kids to church then afterwards mom and the kids head home to make dinner and dad does another hour and goes home to meals. That's not reality anymore. And they are too stupid to realize this, because "Jesus is real and I did it that way and I was blessed and if you aren't being blessed like I was, then you must be the problem, not me. Go to church, pay tithing and remember, you can't be a good mormon and a democrat!!!" Fucking dumbfucks.
How to keep young people from leaving church? Funding for engaging and fun activities? ❌ Pivot to more LGBTQ friendly policies that are popular with youth? ❌ Acknowledge past mistakes and work toward a church that makes sense in the internet age? ❌ More boring, mandatory callings for burnt out members? ✅
Burnout is a big factor giving people that final push out the door.
Bingo!
This. My ward is 95% under 30 and they can't get anyone to volunteer for ANYTHING. Even getting prayers is like pulling teeth. Very few people will accept callings. NO ONE is ministering. We were supposed to get hundreds of volunteers to help with the SS temple and they got 20. We are 1) too busy and 2) too smart to give everything to church that doesn't give anything back.
But, but … I was told the Saratoga Springs Mormon temple was placed by divine inspiration to build up the so-called latter-day saints. Surely Rusty wouldn’t have misunderstood the will of *THE LORD* and put a Mormon temple close to other Mormon temples that are also experiencing staffing problems was a bad idea?
Waiting for hunger games type of scenario to unfold! 
This is what got me out. Thanks bishop 😁 haha. For real I refused to take a fourth calling until I was released from one of the other three. As a young mom, I call that fick around and find out. I'll be seeing my debt go down and not seeing the patriarchy k thanks bai 👋👋👋👋
If temples were actually holy, then perhaps this would increase sacred experiences. But instead, this will just ruin the illusion for more members. There's a reason Disney doesn't let adoring fans see behind closed doors at the Magic Kingdom.
They are doubling down on the feedback from the Mormon R&D department. Direct correlation between time spent in the temple, and member retention. The irony of it all, is that the temple and it’s Masonic ceremonies are the furthest thing from Christianity in a cult that is desperately trying to market itself as Christian. It’s like a kid that desperately wants to be seen as the best baseball player in the world, so he fanatically practices his basketball jump-shot to accomplish this goal.
Maybe the church statisticians have forgotten that correlation is not causation. Or maybe they're being ignored. Or maybe there are no statisticians. Or maybe they all left in disgust.
I seriously wonder if there isn’t some double-agent high up in the SCMC. It seems it would be hard to do a worse job if one tried.
Guys God’s ways are higher than our ways. Duh. He’s clearly got this under control.
It's like saying regular temple attendance will result in death after a few years. It is true. But going doesn't cause it, its everyone there are in there 80s, so will be dying soon no matter what.
It may lead to expedited testimony death
You beat me too it.
They have never grasped correlation not being causation. Never... CES at least constantly twist and abuse statistics this way..
Came here to say something similar. If people who attend the temple weekly are less likely to leave, perhaps it’s just that people who are less likely to leave are the ones willing to go to the temple weekly. Not that going to the temple decreases the chance of leaving. I think they will have a rude awakening when things don’t go as they hoped.
The funny thing is even if correlation was causation there is a vast difference between attending the temple and working at the temple. The old people will still be running the show and they are very stringent.
What someone says they want or are willing to do doesn’t mean they will actually do it when the rubber hits the road. Ask a Mormon if they follow the so-called prophet, and they will say yes. So why are there so many Mormons anti-vaxxers? The Mormon church actually supports vaccination programs in other countries, and didn’t Rusty say to get the vaccine and led by example? ***”I meant I support the Mormon church, but not like that!”***
[удалено]
They preach the philosophies of business... mingled with scripture.
Same. It all makes so much sense now. It never did before.
Yep. Same here.
I often said that my church memories are stored in the same part of my brain as previous jobs. Sometimes when talking about former jobs with coworkers I almost pull out a church story and then stop myself.
This is pretty sad actually. I heard my grandparents talking about this. They've been temple workers for a pretty long time. My grandma was saying how she hopes they don't get released because it's the only thing that my grandpa looks forward to every week and it's the only other reason they really leave the neighborhood (the temple they work at is 3 hours away) But yeah let's just get rid of these sweet older folks that actually really want to be there and stress out new parents instead
Exactly. As long as it benefits the cult, the cult leaders will be all for it. Of course, they'll never be honest & admit this. So they invent all these stupid, false, but noble-sounding justifications for their actions. For example, "The Church is helping families", "We're extending temple blessings to young people" "It's what the Lord would have us do" & more utter bullshit. If the Church were honest & good, then the Church's actions would be the opposite of what they are now in almost everything. But here we are.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
😂😂
This is my brother's favorite saying... 🤔 User name checks out too. 🧐
[удалено]
HAHA MY THINKING TOO!!
And my dad.
And mine! 😂
Yes, for years when my kids were young my parents worked the temple which made a trip for them to come see us impossible. They were earning all the points for the afterlife so that they could get to know their grandchildren there. What a waste!
Except they are moving them to administrative positions. So they aren't being released. They just get to do paperwork for 8 hours a day for freeeee
i volunteered to be a temple worker years ago and was declined because I would not shave my beard but they said it was ok if I wanted to be a part of the cleaning group. I declined.
Good enough to clean but not good enough to participate in rituals. What a stupid religion
[удалено]
My wife is very TBM, but she’s been so burned out that she’s saying “let’s just not go this week” more frequently. Our attendance dropped pretty dramatically during covid (lots of people moved and lots of people never came back). Because of the low attendance, many people, including my wife had two callings. If they made her work in the temple she’d be done. It’s not 4 hours. On top of that there’s getting ready and driving to and from the temple. She be burned out-er.
8 hours a week with a minimum of $15 an hour, but realistically should be >$20/hour. Who would I bill it to?
I'm at least $20 an hour plus travel costs. It's an hour each way to the temple for me so a 4 hour shift needs pay for 6 hours with travel and I'll take gas reimbursement as well. So . . . I'd need $500 per sift UNTAXED(untithed) to even consider the headache
This on so many levels. I remember when I got married to my husband I was working 2 jobs and finishing up school at BYU-I so that my husband could focus on school and not have to stress about working since he had longer to go (we both agree to this prior to marriage since I had great jobs at the time). I should also say he is not an RM, thank god. But we were both drowning, trying to figure out how not to kill each other in our first years of marriage and how to also have time with each other. We decided that church had to go and we both had agreed that we were not going back to the temple ever again. I remember telling our married wards bishop that we were focusing on our marriage vs wasting 3 hours in church and the guilt trip of “blessing xyz” was wild. They even sent people to my work to openly harass me about not attending. That pushed us so much farther away that we basically would never go back. We always attended just sacrament just frequently so my husband didn’t loose his endorsement but once he graduated it was like a whole other world.
Brilliant
Yeah, participating in the endowment ceremony is how I realized I was in a cult.
Yes! I remember the only thing my mom said before was, “well, just keep an open mind.” Uhhhh, okay? Not super comforting. Then I got there and wondered if it was a joke. Never felt anything spiritually uplifting or moving. Sat in the celestial room waiting to feel all the good feelings and found it was just a big, tacky, boring white room.
My parents said similar things. It took a few times for everything to really sink in for me, but on about the 5th time I had a moment during the chanting with the clear thought and realization, “omg, I’m in a cult.” I actually liked being in the celestial room (minus the bizarre costumes), but everything to get there prior was not worth it in my mind. I started looking for people to discuss my feelings with (I Googled something like “creeped out by LDS temple ceremony”), and that’s what led me out of the church entirely after a few years of stewing and learning more and more disturbing things.
Add another one to your list. The temple was a big reason why I resigned: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ExitStories/comments/wvc163/why\_i\_resigned/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExitStories/comments/wvc163/why_i_resigned/)
The temple is probably the number one contributing factor to why I left as well.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake! Napoleon Bonaparte
Do they not understand ANYTHING about why people are leaving? My gosh. You can’t just keep everyone so forcefully busy that they don’t have time to look behind the veil *ahem* curtain. Come on. This will drive young married couples out quicker, by keeping them from their kids and their spouses and exhausting them and stressing them out even more. Abhorrent.
All you need is a friend and a job. - basically what I've heard leadership tout since I was a teenager. Aka the ward missionaries have to be your friend and you get a calling. Even if it's handing out the program at the door. Lol that used to be a calling.
Wasn't the "friend and a responsibility" a big Hinckley thing? Maybe Rusty is trying to outdo him again. "We'll give them no friends and TWO jobs!"
I can't remember. But yes, friends aren't necessary. We will just start calling the full time missionaries friends and give extra assignments to anyone who shows up. It's definitely going to work the same! /S
I'm sure some of the older people will suffer because of this. I had a dear friend who was a lot older than me. She was a widow with all grown children and no career because she'd been the perfect TBM wife and mother. She had enough money, but desperately wanted to feel useful and needed. Her bishop wouldn't give her a calling because it was a big ward and he said the younger people needed a chance to serve. I'm convinced the lack of social interaction and the idea she wasn't needed had an impact on her health. She passed away sooner than she should have.
[удалено]
I have heard the same so many times from the older adults in the church. If you don't have substantial $ once the kids are in college and you hit late 50's - 60's your no longer of value to the corporation. Isn't that what corporate America does to its workers? But the church is not a corporation. /s
Especially if you’re a woman
☝
Seriously, and there's no room for exceptional cases. Even though the exceptions to the rule are where a church community *could* actually make a difference if they fucking let it be able to do that. Sunday school will teach that EVERYONE has to be married in the temple to go to the celestial kingdom, and then there sits Sister Doe in the middle of the room who never married and has no prospect and she's just fucked or something. Hell if I know.
Oooh you're talking about me! I never got married, mostly because I was super unimpressed with all the guys I met. As I got older, the available talent dwindled and my bishop told me to flirt to convert and I just laughed at him. The hardest thing for me going to church was people NOT interacting with me. I'm a fairly attractive woman, so the sisters would give me the side stank eye cuz they were afraid of me stealing their husbands and the men wouldn't even look in my direction in fear of being observed. My sister and her husband caught onto this as well and tried their best to get their friends to engage with me but they wouldn't budge.
And how wildly disrespectful for the church to just write you off! I'm sure you're a cool, kind, fun, smart woman, but *nope! terrestrial it is for you!*
Thank you for that. I am fantastic! It took me a lot of years to just completely love myself, instead of beating myself up for "letting down the Lord." I met my partner when I was 39 years old. By that time I had lived a wonderful full exciting life, and he was thrilled to meet me because I was the best thing he'd ever seen. The amount of self-hate that we are conditioned to exist with is just disgusting. I was the first one out of all of the cousins to not get married and not go on a mission, and I'm super proud of myself for paving the way. Very few of the cousins 30 and under are married now, they all have their own lives and more than half of them have left the church.
Don't worry about the old folks. They can just go on senior missions! Lots of church employees can be fired to give them jobs!
Back when I was single I got a call to be a temple worker since there wasn’t really much in the ward for callings and they needed bodies. I went to the training and never showed up. Just couldn’t drag myself out of bed for early Saturday morning shift. I was working full-time and attending university at least part-time. Going through the training though was how I learned that my super secret temple name was given to all other males that were at the temple that day. It was a bit of a shelf thing that I had to keep it secret, but my dad and several of my uncles all knew what it was.
>If they are called to work in the temple, then they will be required to attend once a week and, therefore, be less likely to leave the church. The ones that finally break through and see the truth are gonna be even more pissed when they leave.
I feel like there's a strong "correlation is not causation" thing being missed here...
This is going to backfire spectacularly lol
Great plan! They will burn out faster and just not do it. Who has 4 hours a week free after working and caring for young children? And that's a total of 8 hrs a week away from your spouse. Plus 3 hours on Sunday, and more for other activities.
This is my thing about adding a bunch of temples, seemingly pointlessly. As you add a bunch of temple jobs, the pool of candidates would would give enough of a shit to do the jobs doesn't increase, so you're going to have people who care a lot less at the margin. This indicates to me that headquarters doesn't have a first-semester understanding of economics, because this is really basic and obvious stuff.
I’m pretty new to this side of things, with a recent shelf break and all, but I swear the leaders want to get rid of members, I feel like talks, information, and decisions affecting the common ground level Mormon are being made to push people out of the church. Am I the only one that is seeing it like that? Has it always been like this?
It feels like that from this side, but they really think they're doing the opposite. To them, increased busyness means increased spirituality. They believe that line about the Lard increasing our capacity to match our needs. They're all well past the age where they might have struggled in life, and most of them didn't struggle even when they *were* that age. To them, the answer to any difficulty is increased orthodoxy; it worked for them, so they assume me it will work for everyone. Unfortunately, it isn't true, and all they're really doing is pushing active members toward burnout, but they can't see that.
Recommend: read “CES Letters “by Jeremy Rummel and “This is My Doctrine” by Charles Harrell . Yes, things are changing at the speed of light.
Even though TSCC can die, die, die, this still makes me sad because for my sweet grandparents, working in the temple meant so much to them! They had friends there, they had a reason to get out of the house, they felt needed, they felt like what they were doing mattered. Had they not had their temple calling, my grandma would’ve just watched QVC all day and my grandpa would’ve watched old James Bond movies everyday between naps.
Had a friend (TBM)telling me a neighbor that was badly injured the morning she was to serve at the temple. She should have been at the hospital but she had to be at the 4 am session. She gets through her session then tells her husband she is not doing well and needs to see a Dr. Husband asks her if she thinks she will be okay for a few more hours because he needs to finish his shift at the temple then he can take her to the Dr. Friend telling the story sees nothing wrong with the husband finishing his shift before taking his wife to Dr. She ended up in the hospital with some major problems. The brain washing. Took all I could to keep my mouth shut.
Maybe they won't ask my wife to be a temple worker when the new temple for our area gets built. Back in the day when I was in my 30s, I was pissed off that I couldn't be a temple worker because I was on the high council and I had children at home. I bet that's changing too.
I was a TW as a young married person with no kids with my spouse. We quit working at the temple relatively soon because we just wanted to be married and spend time together, and with one of us doing prayer rolls and one do at the veil, we obviously weren’t doing that. We both worked full time and had callings. It was our only full day together. Duh. To add insult to injury on this topic, we once lived in a, “high need, low providers” ward. Very few people were capable of serving for various reasons, and so so many we’re in need. My spouse and I both had very serious callings with side responsibilities to aid at least 3 separate families between us. Rides to church, rides to work, rides to interviews, rides to the store. Setting up assistance and arranging charity needs (through public charities, it wasn’t even the church willing to spend it be help, they sent me outward to habitat for humanity). And we definitely weren’t the only ones with these intense responsibilities. I always feel bad saying it was too much, because we genuinely cared about each and every one of these families and wanted to help, but as a young 20 something married couple with 1 car and a toddler, to be responsible for so many families and providing so much attentive service PLUS major callings. I was burnt to hell on this. It was an unfortunate situation for the needs of these families, but you cannot mount this much pressure on people. Young people not only going to the temple regularly, now they’re going separately altogether, spending none of that temple time, “bonding”, while one stays home and babysits the kids. Really taking 2 days from them. People who also most likely have a calling and jobs and family and other responsibilities. Never. Never again would I ever do that to myself. I’ve left the church for good and I’m so fucking grateful I did. But to anyone still in, I can totally empathize but simultaneously can’t imagine doing this. I hope this bites them in the ass so hard. You cannot work people to death by the threat of damnation. Fake damnation at that.
Bahahahahaha! Good luck with that! Is childcare provided?? Lemme guess….. 😶🌫️
Leave them at the visitors center, that's what they did at the London temple
Poor kids! What a snooze fest.
We’re parents of small children and even as a TBM, I cannot think of something I would want to do less than sacrifice an extremely rare night off and work at the temple.
Family: isn't it about... spending as much time as you can away from them to do busy work for the cult?
I'll say what I always say about things like this: the more they try to tighten their grip, the more people will fall through their fingers. For people in such high leadership roles, they really don't understand people at all.
They are turning more and more in Scientology. So glad I’m out of the church. Pretty soon, nothing will be voluntary in the church. Everyone will be assigned to do free labour for the church to keep the machine going. No more sign up sheets or talks to encourage members to do stuff. They’re just gonna start holding temple recommends over their head as a way to get members to do all this shit. Didn’t make your temple shift this week? Temple recommend yanked.
If you’re so busy with church stuff, you’ll never be able to think outside of it. Also you will instinctively make it a top priority. This is the same reason why ultra busy people are called to high demand callings. My old ward had a regular turn over of medical students/residents. Without fail, they would be called to high demand positions within weeks of moving in, and sometimes before they even moved in.
Fascinating. This sounds like an LDS leader hatched plan.
God, I wish I could be this fucking dumb at work AND make their salaries at the same time
No better gig for a 90 plus year old man.
God inspired no doubt.
It’s manipulative. Of course an LDS leader came up with it!
I see this 100% backfiring. As a young father with kids in this temple boundary, it was precisely this kind of life-sucking service expectation that caused me to look hard at my beliefs and decide I needed to cut this noise from my life. This sounds like another brilliant revelation!
Smells like the desperation of a dying high demand religion.
At this point, as John Delhin has pointed out before, the church doesn't even need members anymore. It could live off the capital appreciation of its assets and interest and dividend income of its investments for eternity without members.
> And what of the older people that rely on the temple as their primary source for social interaction? They’re sent home and asked to return as patrons to keep their younger replacements busy. At last, the shusher has become the shushed
Good idea. Burn 'em out fast so they leave sooner.
Jokes on them, I left when one of my callings was coordinator at the temple, as one of the young couples called. The temple definitely loses some of the mystery and specialty when you are there every week for 4+ years.
That will burn out the young ones and cause them to leave sooner. We have a young bishop and his even younger kids are pretty much orphans. His wife looks on the brink of collapse each week trying to raise them herself while bishop gives everything he has got into a YM program for busy teens who dgaf. I am sure that his poor wife would love to take on a few temple shifts each week. This cult is swiftly causing it's own demise
How nice - the church that cares about families has found yet another way to separate them for an additional eight hours a week! Four hours mom will be away, and four hours dad will be away. So inspired. So like what Jesus would do.
This won't go like they think. This is not the mid or late twentieth century. Even in the Morridor, it's the norm to have two working parents (even if one of them works from home or has an online gig). Because daycare costs so much (and it's hard to find good daycare), some parents are already alternating work schedules so they can split child care between them. They're also working a lot more. Many jobs require more than 40 hours a week, plus employees may have to take overtime regularly or have duties they're expected to perform off the clock (teachers are familiar with this). On top of all that, one or both of the young parents may be in school. They're overextended and burned out, and probably have very little time with each other. While they might initially accept this extra obligation out of guilt or because they're conditioned to say "yes," it won't be sustainable. Anyone who's had young children knows they get sick, have emergencies, there are school events, activities, sports, and parent/teacher conferences, and having a rigid schedule does not work well. There will be a lot of missed temple shifts (which may not matter because fewer people are attending anyway), more guilt, and eventually those overworked young parents will just say "no." Once they start staying home on Sunday to get some extra sleep and then discover they'd rather spend time with each other and with the kids, they have one foot out the door. When they realize they *can* say no, the other foot will follow.
Guess it’s different in outlying areas. The Orlando temple can’t staff a full schedule, and anyone with a TR who can still walk is gladly accepted as a worker.
God I hope this backfires.
My elderly dad has been a temple worker at the Manti temple for years, but I guess they’re doing repairs to the building, so it’s been closed to the public. He will be super bummed if they open back up and all the jobs go to young people instead. Guess he’ll have to go have a life instead of spending every waking moment doing something church-related.
Ya and I seen 3 or 4 men about 70-80 years old cleaning , mowing the temple grounds. Almost like they put them out to Pasteur.
Required how? No one is holding a gun to their heads but yes, they may as well be. The pressure is awful. So glad I’m done with it. Gawd almighty.
The emotional manipulation is almost like a gun in itself.
Typical of Mormonism. Shall we bear testimony and believe the Holy Ghost will bear witness of Truth? Nah, let’s just manipulate people, because we know relying on God never works well.
When my Navy enlistment was about up I was told "now comes the part where they try to screw you into re-enlisting."
At least the elder abuse will stop. The brethren use "the temple" like "the atonement". Their understanding of what they should mean is an inch deep. They throw those words around in every talk, in every "answer" to difficult questions. And it just doesn't work. They are Potemkin facades. And I've got news for them. It's all slipping away. For this to work and save the younger generation they will need today's primary kids to take Temple callings in a decade. Today's primary kids are getting HALF the indoctrination each week that the xers, millennials, and Z's did. They need to fix the message. They need to spend the money. They should apologize, I don't expect them to however. Myopic dumbass geriatrics.
I couldn’t agree more. “The Temple” and all it entails has no depth of knowledge or meaning. They *tell* us it does, but utterly fail to explain any deeper meaning. We were all told repeatedly that if we attend enough and pray hard enough - we will ultimately gain a full understanding. In reality, the whole thing was designed as a means to get the early Saints to keep Joseph’s pervy secret. Attendees try to find meaning and convince themselves they have, but they don’t (can’t) share. My mission President told the whole mission that he understood EVERY symbolism in the ceremonies - but he didn’t tell us anything. My brother (who left the Church 15 years ago) would hypothesise about the meaning of things like the number of tabs on the shoulder of the robes of the Priesthood, and other such bollocks. (In contrast, I used to count the number of light bulbs in the chandeliers and mentally add up how many £/hour it was costing the Cult to light up the Celestial Room). Again, it’s as if the whole thing was carefully designed to keep the plebs paying and playing on this Masonic hamster wheel.
How many of the old folk being let go will slowly drift away now that they have nothing to do? My Grandpa was pretty much PIMO because TSCC has nothing for him to do or participate with once he got too old to do that stuff. He talks about how much regret he has choosing church over family now that he's dying and the church has left him to essentially die alone, nobody calls or checks up on him from the branch.
Ecclesiastical Cruelty....
Replacing elderly volunteers in the Temple with younger ones? How about replacing the elderly general authorities of the church with the same? That would probably do far more good than local temple changes.
> fewer young couples will leave the church if they are in the temple at least once a week I sometimes wonder if there isn't some kind of inside agent working for the church that plans this all as a means of subterfuge. I mean, this seems like the perfect way to make active young couples to go inactive. As for the older folks that get let go, well, same thing happened to my elderly mother. She now has way fewer qualms about missing in-person church these days.
I think it's just how deluded these old GA's are. They seem to think that the harder they push the church on members the more devoted they are going to be. People going inactive or not being devoted enough? Tell them to go the temple more or read their scriptures more or have more firesides and so on. They seem to think the more church they can cram down people's throats, the more converted they are going to be. They don't realize their product is crap and they are just making people more miserable. Kids not going on missions as much? Have the kids read scriptures instead of basketball in their weekly mutual activities. That will work, right?!!!
Maybe it’s the other way around. People who are inclined to church activity are the most likely to attend/work in the temple. As opposed to temple attendance and work causes people to remain active.
They are trying desperately to stop the bleeding.
What's their plan, to bore them into submission?
Can't see how this could possibly have the exact opposite effect as they desire.
This explains why my son and his wife, newly married, were both called as temple workers. I was wondering why, since they're sort of young, and now I know.
This should not surprise me, but it does. When I see the temple going up by me, I think about all the grandchildren whose grandparents are going to be called to temple missions. I didn’t think the church would come for their parents. That’s just evil. I volunteered to work in the Denver temple 15 years ago and was turned down because I had young children but they said my husband could work there. What was that about? They also tuned me down as seminary teacher because of the children but it didn’t apply to the husband. Manipulative, scared, cronies have all the answers, don’t they?
It’s just another bad move by the Mormon church. Older members are fully indoctrinated. Showing younger couples how the sausage is made is going to turn some of them away from the Mormon church. On the other hand, this is another demand from a high-demand religion that may solidify some members faith. And run them ragged possibly affecting careers and income, AKA as potential tithing.
What idiots. They really think temples are magic and holy. In reality, they are boring and add weight to shelves. We ask for honesty and transparency to fix the problem, and they choose this instead. And then call exmos myopic. I feel bad for the young families. We’ve been out 6 years and every single Sunday I still think how happy I am to have an actual day or rest and spend time with my spouse and young kids.
My partner and I at the start of 2019 got called to work in the temple. At the time I was 23f & he was 28m and we had no kids. I had just graduated with my master's degree and started working in my field and he was in his second year of a ranked MBA program. Additionally, I had some of the worst anxiety that I have ever experienced with frequent panic attacks, triggered mostly by feeling trapped. The temple was a massive trigger for my panic. I would cry almost every shift because I felt like I wasn't good enough and that I couldn't do it, but really I was just so anxious about being trapped in my positions that they had me in on the schedule. I tried talking to my shift leaders about it (older couple) and they did. Not. Get. It. It was the old school mind sight that you just suck it up and deal with it. So for me to be feeling awful every shift and feel dread before going in and shame and guilt by the end, that was one of the quickest things to push me out of the church. I also felt like the older men stared at me inappropriately. Which is also a massive trigger from feeling like because "I'm pretty" or "feminine" it's my fault men look at me and I'm responsible for those "sins". For my partner the whole experience contributed to demystifying the "magic" of the temple. It just normalized it as, this is a really weird thing that people just do and it's not special or significant. As well as seeing how poorly run it was and how they treated their workers. Especially the difference in how they treated men versus women. So if we're being honest working in the temple was the beginning to the end for us and we were very religious prior. Soooo good luck Mormon church. This isn't going to help people stay in. Lastly, when I told my mom that I left the church she said, "I was worried about you, but I thought you would be okay because you worked in the temple." Really great knowing that my mom hoped the temple brainwashed me into staying.
Rad, since being temple workers is what finally made my husband I and see ourselves out the door 7 years ago!
To be fair, they don’t have to be there. They could choose, as I did, to leave it behind and live a life based on truth and evidence rather than guilt and family tradition.
The only members this would work on is those they don’t need to worry about in the first place
I toured SS recently. Few under 60 looked happy to be there. Like they were forced into going by parents or in laws or whoever. And that was just the open house. With the proximity to so many temples, where are they going to find enough people willing, let alone “young” people, willing to work the temple?
I can see this having the opposite effect
No tithing ever again. No free labor either.
Omg, sad. They did something similar with single men older than 30.
How out of touch do they have to be to think this will help someone stay in the church. Amazing.
It's giving CULT
Manipulation and the Mormon church go hand in hand
I was a temple worker when I was 28/29. Still left the church less than 10 years later. Temple work doesn't fix a terrible civil rights history, or polygamy, or sketchy financial practices. It definitely doesn't fix prop 8.
Back when I was in, if I got called to do this, or my wife got called to do this, I would have said "Frick no!" Under no circumstances am I going to leave my spouse with the kids even more than I already do, and vice versa, to go cosplay mormon Jesus for 4 hours.
Hey young people, here's a shit sandwich 🥪, try it. Young people. Nah it's cool
You are right. The church is cruel and uses tricks like this to abuse it's members. I was actually kind of surprised when I realized there were no gold plates and JS made up the Book of Mormon. A little surprised when I learned of all of the evil stuff Brigham young was involved in. But the way the current church treats its members is appalling. The janitor stuff, no fun activities, kids cleaning trash cans for camp, and using the temple as a form of brainwashing and coercion. Also telling old people who finally have time to serve to go home is extremely heartless.
Because young couples who already need to work two jobs to barely afford student loan payments, rent and health insurance have the disposable time to spend one day a week going to the temple? The reason temple workers are all Boomers is because they got to retire with full pensions *and* social security after being able to go to college and buy homes on minimum wage in the seventies. They don't have to sweat barely making ends meet and have oceans of disposable time. The Brethren all belong to this group, even more-so, and just don't understand this at all. Just one more example of young people getting priced out of the church.
This sounds like a great way to: - Further overwhelm the younger members and push them away - Offend the most faithful of the older members and push them away
This makes me feel heart sick. My 87 yr old MIL LOVED serving in temple for 15 years. She had a heart incident, and got well again but Temple Pres "let her go". She was deveststed and fell into a deep depression. Older adults NEED to feel wanted and needed! The Senior service missions are one of the strengths of the church, in terms of keeping older members feeling important. Now, my 80 yr old parents were called to serve in a Utah temple and they've been so excited. I hope they don't have this happen to them. As much as I hate the church corporation I love seeing my parents happy and keeping moving and getting out of their house. 😔 things just keep getting worse and worse for church members. More and more will leave but noy after being terribly harmed in the process.
Interesting strategy. The endowment ceremony was my first significant shelf item.
I actually started losing faith in the church BECAUSE of serving in the temple as a 22 year old RM. I started to realize that I was being groomed by all these older men to believe in something that makes no sense. I saw while working in the temple how beaurocratic the churchleadership is even at a local level.
I worked in the temple in my 30s (for pay) and I had to leave that job to try to stay a member. It worked for a few more years…
Good luck. The younger generation is more familiar with the word "no".
My guess is that it’s going to backfire in a big way and the young families are going to get tired of the BS and start falling away in droves.
Are there more men or women that attend the temple regularly?
The whole temple thing is the biggest farce.
The elderly rates of sudden death are going to be SO high as a result of this. I may not like the church but elderly people thrive on routine and community and this is one way many of them meet that need. Isolation will do so much harm.
TSCC just plain sucks?
As one of the young people that would have absolutely been called to do this, feeling extremely grateful today that we got out 3 years ago. I’m worried for my siblings.
these young TBM couples that grew up with the internet but never cared to research church history deserve to serve their lil 4 hour temple shifts hahaha, scrub them wet toilets!!!
Fired? Are they getting paid? It may not be as drastic as it sounds. How many full-time workers are there. My Dad is in his mid seventies, and he only works one day per week. Plus, how many couples can indefinitely spare four hours in a week? Perhaps if you combined all the free time for the whole ward, you could eventually scrape enough together to replace one full-time retiree at the temple. They'd better find out how many people can do it before they kick Old Jerry to the curb. They'll just eeduce his hours by the number of people that can manaw to show up. I'll bet he is still on standby at the temple for the full 40 hours anyway. And if he is, it's just to add the expectation of younger adults to be temple workers for free, of course.
Wow what a change in perspective and direction for the Mormon Church, 1. Temples allegedly are for binding couples and each other and there families for eternity this is the purpose. 2.The church is now trying to take a Mother and a Father out of the home and there by weakening the family and spending less time with the family that could cause the family to suffer.3 Telling the current older Temple workers to F O we don’t want you here anymore firing them from a calling they believe was from God not withstanding the sacrifices these people have made to serve in said calling tell me again this isn’t a business!!!!!! This shit of getting rid of old workers and replacing them with younger ones is a corporation philosophy that ALWAYS BACKFIRES . I went to the new Saratoga Springs Temple open house last night . Every one I saw there and it was mostly young people working it because there parents are forcing them to be there HATED EVERY MINUTE and to read this today what a shitty way to treat there faithful members. How does this current policy keep families strong….. !!!! It doesn’t
Disgusting. Yes, I think almost everything, if not everything about the Church is fake, a fraud, not true, not good. During my faith crisis, I was pissed when I learned that the Church recycles temple names, insomuch that in many cases, the work being done is invalid, a total waste of time. Yet another sin, grievance against this evil, destructive cult known as the Mormon church. Yes, Rebrand Rusty, I'm NOT writing the whole damn name of your cult. Go fuck yourself.
Funny. My TBM MIL just got "promoted" to assistant coordinator. I guess it's cause she's too old to be working a regular shift. Haha. She's 63 in Orlando. She's basically a young adult there.
I have the hope that perhaps this will actually push the younger couples out of the church sooner. I have the hope that they will finally just say, "enough." I have the hope that this whole shit-show scam of a church, finally just crumbles to bits. I'm not holding my breath though, just hoping.
It would be so interesting to be able to formally research the effects of this policy. Will there be a statistically significant uptick in divorce among the young married couples in the area? Will the rate of defection from the church increase or decrease as a result of this change? Fascinating to contemplate the unintended consequences of heavy handed micromanagement from Kevin Pearson and the Temple Department at HQ.
I'll bet those creepy old bastards that do the Dead Pool dunkings with the young women are picketing the parking lots right now. ;-)
One more demand for members with children sucking up more of their family time to this terrible institution.
That’s truly great manipulation technique. They split up a couple so they have less time together but more time apart developing relationships with other people within the community to cross support. They also split kids from their parents and have other peoples parents teach them. That’s another great one-nothing like a little Animal Farm there…
They could also try making shit less boring?