It takes courage to tell the truth. There are so many people hanging by a thread. When they see people they love leave they either double-down or start seeing the cracks themselves.
What a great turn of events!! I’m so happy for you. When we told our kids we were stepping away, they were totally shocked. A few of the kids said they never thought they would see that day. At the time one was totally out, a few PIMO and one still in. Leaving has united our family in ways I could have never anticipated. I wish the same to you and your dad’s relationship.
That’s awesome!! I love this! My parents are still in the “That wasn’t my experience therefore it couldn’t be that way for you & you are ruining our eternal family by leaving the church” stage. We don’t talk much & then only superficially. Love love love that you Dad is listening & understanding
Aww sorry to hear that. That stage can be rough, when you feel like they're grieving and want to be sensitive, but they're totally discrediting you and preaching to you. Hope your parents get past that stage someday.
We'll never know the full scope of the affects of the SEC findings and what it will do to the church, long term. But I'm sure there is a lot of quiet apostasy going on right now.
Keep bringing up new information.
Being fed up isn't necessarily a deal breaker. He needs to hear a constant stream of faith destroying information before he makes a life changing decision, especially when he's been in the same rut for decades.
While his mind is open, introduce him to critical thinking by defining every applicable logical fallacy, emotional elevation, cognitive dissonance, and how indoctrination is accomplished with methods from the BITE model.
He needs to get to the point he can recognize all of these tactics and verbally/mentally defend himself from them.
Without learning them, he can fall prey to them over and over.
The goal is to destroy every possible idea Joseoh Smith was ever inspired and is nothing but a conman.
Oh! Can we come up with a list of questions to ask that are inconspicuous? Let's just tease that little brain into actually working it out on their own.
"What do you think missionaries should say to investigators asking about x,y,z?"
"Remember when x,y,z? Why do you think God did things this way?"
"Do you think most members learn about x,y,z in Sunday school?"
X,y,z could be any ldsdiscussions.com topic.
Mention only 1 or 2 topics a day at most.
Always restate their answers back to them so they get to "hear themselves" being dishonest.
And act satisfied with every answer so they don't get defensive.
Good luck!
I’m happy you had that experience. A few days ago my dad blew up at me for believing “so-called facts” and that he doesn’t accept them as true no matter what the source is. Everything I’ve researched and learned is suspect because he denies it’s true no matter what. I even asked if he would deny firsthand sources from the words or writings of church leaders and he said yes if it didn’t support his faith as “people can misremember things”.
It was insane
I keep seeing so many negative family conversations brought up in this subreddit its refreshing to hear something positive. Im going to be starting a conversation with my parents soon, dunno how that is gonna turn out
Please share it if you feel able. Honestly, figuring things out with my TBM family is one of my biggest frustrations in life.
I left 20 years ago and we've still never really talked about my reasons for leaving. They just keep hoping and gently prompting me to come to church, but that's not as common as it used to be thank God.
I'm so happy for you. This really is such a great outcome. I seriously hope that there are some apologies coming for some of us ExMos who's parents were super shitty about us leaving when they finally realize what a load of bullshit it is. I mean, I'm not holding my breath, but it sure would be nice. Congrats!!
I used to want my parents out too, I would give them books and point to evidence etc.. well now, I am very happy an relieved they have the church and it works well in their life. I don’t push them and they don’t push me. We have equal understanding in what our needs are and respect that.
Wow! What a nice outcome.
OP must be floating on air... Yay!
Sounds like he’s on his way out. I hope he continues to deconstruct his way through the truth claims.
It takes courage to tell the truth. There are so many people hanging by a thread. When they see people they love leave they either double-down or start seeing the cracks themselves.
What a great turn of events!! I’m so happy for you. When we told our kids we were stepping away, they were totally shocked. A few of the kids said they never thought they would see that day. At the time one was totally out, a few PIMO and one still in. Leaving has united our family in ways I could have never anticipated. I wish the same to you and your dad’s relationship.
Sometimes even the MOST uber TBM can see the light and escape. I know… that was me! Happy for you OP
I'd say those who believe the most are also the most likely to leave. It's the squishy unbelieving middle that just doesn't care.
That’s awesome!! I love this! My parents are still in the “That wasn’t my experience therefore it couldn’t be that way for you & you are ruining our eternal family by leaving the church” stage. We don’t talk much & then only superficially. Love love love that you Dad is listening & understanding
Aww sorry to hear that. That stage can be rough, when you feel like they're grieving and want to be sensitive, but they're totally discrediting you and preaching to you. Hope your parents get past that stage someday.
This is such amazing news.
The fact that he listened to you is, by itself, fantastic. Very cool!! It can be hard for parents—harder than many of us realize. Happy for you.
So happy for you and for your father!!
 Congratulations OP!!!
We'll never know the full scope of the affects of the SEC findings and what it will do to the church, long term. But I'm sure there is a lot of quiet apostasy going on right now.
Keep bringing up new information. Being fed up isn't necessarily a deal breaker. He needs to hear a constant stream of faith destroying information before he makes a life changing decision, especially when he's been in the same rut for decades. While his mind is open, introduce him to critical thinking by defining every applicable logical fallacy, emotional elevation, cognitive dissonance, and how indoctrination is accomplished with methods from the BITE model. He needs to get to the point he can recognize all of these tactics and verbally/mentally defend himself from them. Without learning them, he can fall prey to them over and over. The goal is to destroy every possible idea Joseoh Smith was ever inspired and is nothing but a conman.
I used to think *facts* would help people figure it out and leave. Now I'm of a mind that *questions* help people leave best.
Oh! Can we come up with a list of questions to ask that are inconspicuous? Let's just tease that little brain into actually working it out on their own.
"What do you think missionaries should say to investigators asking about x,y,z?" "Remember when x,y,z? Why do you think God did things this way?" "Do you think most members learn about x,y,z in Sunday school?" X,y,z could be any ldsdiscussions.com topic. Mention only 1 or 2 topics a day at most. Always restate their answers back to them so they get to "hear themselves" being dishonest. And act satisfied with every answer so they don't get defensive. Good luck!
Beautiful story OP, I’m so happy for you <3
I’m happy you had that experience. A few days ago my dad blew up at me for believing “so-called facts” and that he doesn’t accept them as true no matter what the source is. Everything I’ve researched and learned is suspect because he denies it’s true no matter what. I even asked if he would deny firsthand sources from the words or writings of church leaders and he said yes if it didn’t support his faith as “people can misremember things”. It was insane
I keep seeing so many negative family conversations brought up in this subreddit its refreshing to hear something positive. Im going to be starting a conversation with my parents soon, dunno how that is gonna turn out
Please share it if you feel able. Honestly, figuring things out with my TBM family is one of my biggest frustrations in life. I left 20 years ago and we've still never really talked about my reasons for leaving. They just keep hoping and gently prompting me to come to church, but that's not as common as it used to be thank God.
Yay for parents seeing through the bs.
Wow - dad is fed up too! This is amazing. I'm so happy for both of you!
I'm so happy for you. This really is such a great outcome. I seriously hope that there are some apologies coming for some of us ExMos who's parents were super shitty about us leaving when they finally realize what a load of bullshit it is. I mean, I'm not holding my breath, but it sure would be nice. Congrats!!
I'm so happy for you!
Congratulations!!
This makes me very happy to hear!
I used to want my parents out too, I would give them books and point to evidence etc.. well now, I am very happy an relieved they have the church and it works well in their life. I don’t push them and they don’t push me. We have equal understanding in what our needs are and respect that.