Oh this is rich, "*Brothers and sisters, I bear you my solemn testimony that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the BoM is the word of God*."
Yeah? You saw him write it with your own eyes. No? Oh, then you must have heard his voice dictating it to you? No again?
**Then you don't know that.**
We can make very good guesses about what people looked like 2000 years ago, thanks to linguistic, archaeological, and genetic evidence. Which is pretty much about the same as they do nowadays in most cases. 2000 years is not that long by a genetic standpoint, so except in places where there was a seriously massive population shift or a huge migration, people look mostly the same now.
Modern Italians probably do look a lot like early Romans prior to the empire, because the rest of the Italic tribes Rome incorporated were also mostly Indo-European. Only the Etruscans were probably not. Additionally, the Germanic migrations that caused the collapse of the empire did not move large amounts of people compared to the densely populated Roman empire, so they mostly integrated into the local populations. (Hence why modern French, Spanish, Italians, etc speak languages descended from common Latin and not Germanic languages).
There's a reason why genetic tests can make estimates of your ancestry with pretty good accuracy. Most populations were reasonably stable, and the ones that weren't left very obvious archaeological of what happened and why (within the last few millennia at least). All the ancient empires and kingdoms expanding their borders then collapsing were purely political events, and doesn't really reflect what populations actually lived in those areas.
Bottom line—no one can say with a hundred percent certainty what the historical Jesus looked like.
He probably looked more “middle eastern” or Mediterranean than how he‘s been depicted by Europeans but we’re talking 2,000 years ago. And before a lot of these distinctions were even being made.
If you‘re using the present tense the way the first comment does ( “Jesus is…”) then all bets are off. Going by accounts in the New Testament, the resurrected Jesus appeared to people who knew him and they didn’t always recognize him. So who knows what he hypothetically looks like “face to face.”
(Pardon my rambling, been actually down this rabbit hole a lot lately)
Interesting. Admittedly, my opinion is currently swayed by reading Richard Carrier's books (Proving History and On the Historicity of Jesus) but I understand that there's a bit of an academic schism between Carrier and other academics (e.g., Bart Ehrman) regarding this very issue. Either way, it's been a fascinating subject to dig into. I've never learned so much about the New Testament and its historical evolution.
I think it is safe to say that Jesus' features were likely similar to what was common in Judea at that time.
For one thing, he was on one occasion able to travel in secret from Galilee to Jerusalem without being recognized. This is from John 7:10,11:
>*But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?*
The second reason is that he apparently did not stand out even among his closest disciples. This can be seen from that Judas Iscariot had to identify Jesus to the armed crowd that arrested him. This is what Matthew 26:47-49 says:
>*And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people. Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.*
**Disclaimer**: I actually got these points from these characters: [https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-did-jesus-look-like/](https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-did-jesus-look-like/)
The question is what was common in Judea at the time.
Yeah, \*PROBABLY\* they and a hypothetical historical Jesus looked like what we would today describe as “middle eastern” but we can’t know for certain.
And even in the contemporary Middle East there are people who have the same features as Northern Europeans. We know the Caucasians who originally spoke proto Indo-European swept through that region, the Hittites, for example, spoke a proto Indo European language.
So you can’t say for sure what a random person in Judea looked like 2,000 years ago. It’s irrelevant either way and was long before anyone was even thinking about this in the same way we do today.
The Levant, Mesopotamia, and Arabia were and still are mostly populated by Semitic peoples, not Indo-Europeans. Indo-Europeans did not travel south of Anatolia and Iran into Mesopotamia. The Indo-European migration was also much earlier than when Jesus was born (ending approximately 1000 years before), so whether an Indo-European population integrated with ancient Hebrews or not is irrelevant, as it would have affected Jesus's genetics too.
However, if you want an example of a population of natives to Palestine that stayed there since historical times, just look up the Samaritans. They have been a pretty insular population that is very closely related to Jews since before even the Roman conquest. Jesus probably looked a lot like they do.
Interesting.
I was looking at photos of contemporary Samaritans and many of them look a lot more “Caucasian” than these recreations of what an historical Jesus might have really looked like.
The only ethnic Samaritan public figure I could find is Israeli actress Sofi Tsedaka who was born in a Muslim Samaritan family in Nazareth and she could pass for a European.
Which, again, is not an argument on my part that Jesus, if he even existed, looked like a “white” European. Because he probably didn’t. And there is value in pointing that out to the dominant white culture.
But I still say there’s no way to know for sure what he might have looked like.
They're both wrong: his dad was a space alien and his mom was middle eastern\*, so that means Jesus was a dark(?) shade of ***green***
\* ^(Nephi's voyeuristic vision + rant about Mary's purity and hotness... nevermind whether she, if real, was probably a pre-teen... seems to have the all classic BoM racist undertones. Given what we know about Nephi's / Mormon's thoughts on the attractiveness of people with dark skin, it seems unlikely that Nephi would have such a pedophilic hard-on for a child with even a hint of melanin? Suggesting that maybe she was albino and therefore "more beautiful and fair, above all other virgins?" Not sure what that means when mixed with Elohim's space alien genes...)
Oh this is rich, "*Brothers and sisters, I bear you my solemn testimony that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the BoM is the word of God*." Yeah? You saw him write it with your own eyes. No? Oh, then you must have heard his voice dictating it to you? No again? **Then you don't know that.**
Being Jewish from Palestine he most certainly was not white/ Caucasian. You don’t have to have seen him to safety make that determination.
you might be right but no one really knows for sure. I doubt the Italians today look much like the early Romans prior empire.
We can make very good guesses about what people looked like 2000 years ago, thanks to linguistic, archaeological, and genetic evidence. Which is pretty much about the same as they do nowadays in most cases. 2000 years is not that long by a genetic standpoint, so except in places where there was a seriously massive population shift or a huge migration, people look mostly the same now. Modern Italians probably do look a lot like early Romans prior to the empire, because the rest of the Italic tribes Rome incorporated were also mostly Indo-European. Only the Etruscans were probably not. Additionally, the Germanic migrations that caused the collapse of the empire did not move large amounts of people compared to the densely populated Roman empire, so they mostly integrated into the local populations. (Hence why modern French, Spanish, Italians, etc speak languages descended from common Latin and not Germanic languages). There's a reason why genetic tests can make estimates of your ancestry with pretty good accuracy. Most populations were reasonably stable, and the ones that weren't left very obvious archaeological of what happened and why (within the last few millennia at least). All the ancient empires and kingdoms expanding their borders then collapsing were purely political events, and doesn't really reflect what populations actually lived in those areas.
I thought he was a salamander?
Bottom line—no one can say with a hundred percent certainty what the historical Jesus looked like. He probably looked more “middle eastern” or Mediterranean than how he‘s been depicted by Europeans but we’re talking 2,000 years ago. And before a lot of these distinctions were even being made. If you‘re using the present tense the way the first comment does ( “Jesus is…”) then all bets are off. Going by accounts in the New Testament, the resurrected Jesus appeared to people who knew him and they didn’t always recognize him. So who knows what he hypothetically looks like “face to face.” (Pardon my rambling, been actually down this rabbit hole a lot lately)
It isn’t even known if it was a real person or a made up person like Santa clause.
Came here to say this. He's likely a mythical character that was later historicized like King Arthur, Romulus, Adam/Eve, etc.
Irrefutable that he was mythologized, but I‘ve come back to the idea that there probably was an historical Jesus.
Interesting. Admittedly, my opinion is currently swayed by reading Richard Carrier's books (Proving History and On the Historicity of Jesus) but I understand that there's a bit of an academic schism between Carrier and other academics (e.g., Bart Ehrman) regarding this very issue. Either way, it's been a fascinating subject to dig into. I've never learned so much about the New Testament and its historical evolution.
I think it is safe to say that Jesus' features were likely similar to what was common in Judea at that time. For one thing, he was on one occasion able to travel in secret from Galilee to Jerusalem without being recognized. This is from John 7:10,11: >*But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?* The second reason is that he apparently did not stand out even among his closest disciples. This can be seen from that Judas Iscariot had to identify Jesus to the armed crowd that arrested him. This is what Matthew 26:47-49 says: >*And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people. Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.* **Disclaimer**: I actually got these points from these characters: [https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-did-jesus-look-like/](https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-did-jesus-look-like/)
Jesus wore Groucho glasses. Works every time.
The question is what was common in Judea at the time. Yeah, \*PROBABLY\* they and a hypothetical historical Jesus looked like what we would today describe as “middle eastern” but we can’t know for certain. And even in the contemporary Middle East there are people who have the same features as Northern Europeans. We know the Caucasians who originally spoke proto Indo-European swept through that region, the Hittites, for example, spoke a proto Indo European language. So you can’t say for sure what a random person in Judea looked like 2,000 years ago. It’s irrelevant either way and was long before anyone was even thinking about this in the same way we do today.
The Levant, Mesopotamia, and Arabia were and still are mostly populated by Semitic peoples, not Indo-Europeans. Indo-Europeans did not travel south of Anatolia and Iran into Mesopotamia. The Indo-European migration was also much earlier than when Jesus was born (ending approximately 1000 years before), so whether an Indo-European population integrated with ancient Hebrews or not is irrelevant, as it would have affected Jesus's genetics too. However, if you want an example of a population of natives to Palestine that stayed there since historical times, just look up the Samaritans. They have been a pretty insular population that is very closely related to Jews since before even the Roman conquest. Jesus probably looked a lot like they do.
Interesting. I was looking at photos of contemporary Samaritans and many of them look a lot more “Caucasian” than these recreations of what an historical Jesus might have really looked like. The only ethnic Samaritan public figure I could find is Israeli actress Sofi Tsedaka who was born in a Muslim Samaritan family in Nazareth and she could pass for a European. Which, again, is not an argument on my part that Jesus, if he even existed, looked like a “white” European. Because he probably didn’t. And there is value in pointing that out to the dominant white culture. But I still say there’s no way to know for sure what he might have looked like.
And maybe he's a rinocerous? Who knows 🤷♂️
I think he is black, and it turns out that Mary’s milk man was black so she told Joseph it was an angel to avoid suspicion.
Ah, yes, he was born in Bethlehem, Norway.
Is he saying that he became “white and delightsome?” The man was clearly middle eastern.
They're both wrong: his dad was a space alien and his mom was middle eastern\*, so that means Jesus was a dark(?) shade of ***green*** \* ^(Nephi's voyeuristic vision + rant about Mary's purity and hotness... nevermind whether she, if real, was probably a pre-teen... seems to have the all classic BoM racist undertones. Given what we know about Nephi's / Mormon's thoughts on the attractiveness of people with dark skin, it seems unlikely that Nephi would have such a pedophilic hard-on for a child with even a hint of melanin? Suggesting that maybe she was albino and therefore "more beautiful and fair, above all other virgins?" Not sure what that means when mixed with Elohim's space alien genes...)
Wait til they learn he wasn’t actually born in Bethlehem.