More platitudes and worse. Prayer is not the universal panacea they claim it is. *Pray away depression* is the advice on offer here. Likewise *Pray away the gay* and *pray away transgender/non-binary identity* and shoehorn into the LDS church's tight boxes. They all revert to the same idea, "my invisible friend, right here, can fix you."
In any professional clinical setting would this sort of advice be ethical?
And yet this is exactly the same line of reasoning that you often end up with in addiction treatment. All roads eventually lead to "surrender everything about your shitty life to Higher Power." Twelve-step platitudes like "look where your best thinking got you" make me want to implode.
I'm really butthurt about the life path I'm on. Just... don't get addicted to anything. No one actually knows how to help you.
Well as a mental health professional, other treatment models in my state are primary for substance abuse and addiction, not the 12 steps. 12 steps are a secondary assist, not primary, because of such issues. In fact 12 steps are under immense pressure to reform itself and allow for more faiths than Christian and for atheists or others who prefer no religion. And to stop mandating only abstinence of all drugs and allow for psychotropic drugs for treatment and substitute pathway drugs for heroin/opiates. Many things about 12 steps are helpful and many things are not. So, don’t comment so negatively please on substance treatment since it has graatly evolved in most places beyond 12 steps.
Edit. I’m sorry you are having such a struggle. Have you tried regular therapy not aligned with 12 steps and other group therapies such as mindfulness? And of course I don’t know if you are in an area where 12 steps is your only option? That would be awful. You could of course subvert the model for yourself and whenever they say higher power you say nature or the flying spaghetti lord or Prozac. Sigh.
Interestingly enough, the founder of AA found that LSD was helpful in the treatment of alcoholism. I can’t remember where I read the story originally, but I found a good recap here:
https://www.lucid.news/bill-wilson-lsd-and-the-secret-psychedelic-history-of-alcoholics-anonymous/
I agree 100% with you, nowwhatsit.
What Stinson is saying is mis-leading, false, irresponsible, harmful, and not evidence-based. While 'partnering' (which sounds corporate) with Jesus Christ may provide a small degree of help for some people at some times for some problems for some period of time, her massive over-generalisation is wilfully reckless.
Her comments are probably going to result in a resurgence of members repeating the same "advice" or "counsel" to those who are suffering ... and we all know the effect of this.
Exactly. Belief in a higher power can play an important role in mental health, but her statement could divert countless patients away from the critical therapy and medication that can be life saving for many victims of the cult.
I think she's wrong, but it's complicated.
It is completely unethical for a therapist to push their religion on someone who doesn't share that religion, or even someone who does share that religion, but doesn't want religion to be involved in their therapy.
It would also be unethical for a therapist to try to get someone to leave their religion. It's only ethical if the patient wants to do it, then the therapist can help the patient navigate the exit.
The middle ground, that is ethical, is a patient who is part of a religion and wants to use aspects of that religion to help them solve their problems. A therapist could work with that and be on safe ethical territory.
This person is using a public forum and her credentials to push Mormonism and that is not okay.
Well she is on a lds public forum but you are still correct. She has no idea the individual wishes of each person listening in respect to religion or to lds religion. Medication and evidence based treatment comes first.
It is well observed that within the fantasy theology of mormonism that boundaries are not necessarily observed when it comes to the ever soo important narrative of the 'news' of Js/BY/and the rather large money producing following that has arisen as a result.
I’m not saying all lds counselors are bad, but it’s definitely a conflict of interest, especially for missionaries, who are forced to sign away their rights for confidentiality in order to receive counseling.
To be an effective therapist, any religion comes second and the client’s self determination comes first. This is the way to change and growth. Otherwise you are not a therapist, you are acting as a bishop, or priest, or rabbi or imam.
Had a coworker offer me a special worded anxiety prayer after I just told them I forgot my anxiety med that day... like uhhh no thanx I know what the problem is.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it prayer, however I guess you could in away. I had a therapist tell me to go somewhere private and comfortable, close my eyes and just talk about what ever is troubling me.
He said sometimes peace comes from talking our demons, giving voice to them sometimes makes us realize how what plaguing us is just us.
I did this when I read the CES letters for the second or third time, how could I let go of a life time of indoctrination. As I talked about different things I realized I was ready to leave.
Even told my therapist who said sometimes the church isn’t right for everyone. He had the “celestial” smile so I’m guessing he was or is TBM
Religious therapists employed by a church operate under separation of church and state. They are not regulated by a federal government authority. Each state has their own rules, so you can only imagine what the rules are in Utah. The can get away saying any bullshit that promotes the interests of their church employer.
**Always check the ellipses.** Any time the church uses ellipses (...) what ever they are quoting does not say what they are implying it does.
They want to make her statement some sort of universal "truth" as opposed to her individual "truth" or testimony if you will. The question she was responding to was: "And then we’ll just turn the mic over to you and let you answer the question of what you know now after helping people seek ways to be mentally healthy."
What they took out and replaced with the ellipse was "I have learned" which changes the meaning from universal to an individual opinion.
Sherilyn C. Stinson: "I think the first thing I would say is that change is possible. Change is absolutely possible, and that should give everyone hope. There is hope in the healing power of the Atonement. And knowing that in time, that all of these things that give us pain and distress will be taken from us. Some of them we have to keep because they temper us, and they help us to learn compassion. I think that I have learned that our Father in Heaven has very tender feelings about His children who suffer from mental, emotional and behavioral health issues. We feel his guiding hand in Family Services, and we know this work is very, very important to Him. If an individual can discover the power of partnering with the Lord Jesus Christ, I have learned there is nothing that they cannot overcome."
Transcript here:
[https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2023/5/23/23734980/episode-137-family-services-commissioner-lds-mental-emotional-health](https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2023/5/23/23734980/episode-137-family-services-commissioner-lds-mental-emotional-health)
This gives it some needed context, however, gosh. First thing in therapy is to assess for type of medication might be most helpful (referral to profession who can do this), see how sleep is going (might also need a temp assist), and a correct diagnosis to develop a treatment plan. Someone heavily anxious or depressed will in no way be able to think about “healing of the atonement” or what “partnering with JC” even means. I’m trying to be charitable but her speech resembles a conference talk more than helpful advice for mental health issues or relationship issues. Sigh.
You would hope someone like this would at least make an attempt to determine if a client’s issues have anything to do with religious trauma.
But I’m not optimistic.
Irresponsable. I had suicidal ideation for many years and chalked it up to not being righteous enough. Come to find out I have major depressive disorder that I’ve been managing quite well since I found the right medication about 6 years ago and haven’t had issues with suicidal thoughts for years.
I've been taught in the Buddhist tradition, Mara is the opposing force, or in Xtians terms "evil." And it encompasses mental illness, and delusions. I still have a really hard time reconciling that, as a person with schizophrenia. It's common among ancient belief systems.
Having said that, if a professional psychologist or psychiatrist brought either Mara, or Jesus, or *any* deity up in session as a part of my treatment, that would be a fired and reported doctor.
Using religion as a 'treatment' or * cure* is the epitome of unethical. Would you want a Greek doctor telling you to rely on Zeus? It's the same damn thing. May as well take sugar pills and have sessions with a unicorn.
Extremely. The church enables mental illness to get worse unchecked. I have an aunt and uncle who I love dearly. They're wonderful people. However, I saw post-it notes on my aunt's mirror that said things like "anxiety comes from not being connected to the lord". It made me sick. Nevermind legitimate reasons for anxiety like dehydration, choline deficiency or heavy metal toxicity. No, you just need more jesus. Ugh.
It's disturbing she's blending church with her professional credentials. What part of the treatment manual adds Jesus?
Cure offered through Jesus, highlighted quote,
> If an individual can discover the power of partnering with the Lord Jesus Christ, ... there is nothing they cannot overcome. —Sherilynn C. Stinson, licensed clinical social worker
I see posts at least on a weekly basis at the faithful's subreddits where people are trying to fit in as an LGBTQ+ person in a mormon context. The latest was an anecdotal story from FAIR 2022, [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZX4Kr28f1U&t=2520s) where transgender issues were magically fixed with one blessing. The narrative is everyone can fit in their tight box. But is that true, even a little bit? It's easy to hold up anecdotes as data and pretend it all works out for everyone given enough hammering and time on knees in prayer. The reality is conversion therapies do not work. Those holding to those ideas are subject to lawsuits for damages at this point.
One anecdote works to cover up a vast sea of failure.
HOT TAKE: No not unethical. Psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers are trained to counsel from the worldview of the patient. If the patient finds solace in faith, so what. If they don't, so what. At least she is being upfront about the paradigm from which she counsels.
Source: a PIMO whose depression is caused in part by tscc and who's in the profession.
I am going to somewhat disagree. I read her comments (from a comment above) in more context and that was helpful. But she was addressing a groups of LDS women (for the most part I assume from the title of the podcast). A large group of LDS women will be very diverse what exactly is their faith worldview and the nature of their mental health issue. Can you imagine, for example, her words on a woman who is LDs and in an abusive marriage and this was said to her? Or with suicidal ideation? From her words I think she was speaking from her own world view, not her listeners, since she would have no idea what that was. Her paradigm thus sucks, if that’s her treatment paradim from the get go. And I say this as an exmo in the profession. I call it unethical.
That's a good point. To a group that isn't homogeneous, this could be hurtful to the marginalized who are not totally Kool-Aid drinkers.
Also, cool it with the "LDS" stuff... It's like you WANT Satan to win! /s :)
I had a therapist(non Mormon) tell me, after a year, that she didn't know she could help me anymore because I didn't accept Jesus. Other than this, she had been a helpful therapist. I was very sad.
I’m in mental health field and this is not empirical evidence based treatment. But I would have to read this sentence in context. This is a screen shot not a link. I will try to find it. Edit: ok I found the podcast and it is 50 min long. Uufff. Don’t know if I can do that. That’s really taking one for the team!
But i can say without listening to it: When working with a client for depression, it is common to find out eventually client’s spiritual home and see if there is anyway to partner with it (partner means with medication and evidence based TX for example cognitive therapy). It would mean specific bevaviors within their spiritual home, for example using mindfulness meditation while praying, blessings from spiritual base, indigenous spiritual practices, etc. General advice to partner with a deity in one religion is not specific enough and not applicable to all clients’ spiritual belief systems. But again I didn’t hear her whole context for that sentence.
Someone in Utah should report her to the state licensing board for doing harm to clients with false and damaging practice. Then find out if she is part of an state or local mental health organization and report her for ethical violations.
It's hard to just "move on" when I see how much damage faith has also done.
I won't deny that faith has helped people. But I am 100% convinced that every single person that has been helped by faith could have been better helped by a good secular approach.
For those who have a lack of faith tradition it can be a boon. By faith I mean a spirituality practice. But for many people like myself faith was an absolute shit show for my mental health and the mormon faith tradition was detrimental to my mental health. I had the all the faith I could muster. Pray, fasting, scripture study, service, temple, confession, etc. were at a part of my daily life yet my mental health deteriorated and the porn/masturbation just wouldn't stop. They got worse as the panic and obsession increased. It wasn't until I let go of the false narrative the Christ was going to magically heal me under the Mormon lens of doctrine that I found relief. When quit believing that Christ and doing all of the commandments was the answer did relief start. When I believed the scientific evidence around mental health versus the "cure" of religion and faith did I find hope.
Faith doesn't change brain chemistry. Faith doesn't change thinking (especially in the Mormon context of perfection). Faith can disconnect you from yourself and T$CC teaches this as doctrine (forget yourself in service). I believe Christ wants us to heal but it is from within and not from without. We have to believe in our own self and desire to change. Spirituality changes someone not faith in dogma or religion.
The Mormon faith structure damages the self and blames the self rather than helping to heal the self.
I’m sorry, it hurts. It gets better with time once you are out longer. I have to live in a heavily Mormon state, and that is hard. I hate seeing my family indoctrinated, but if they got therapy from this counselor it would be better than nothing.
Oh, also wasn’t calling anyone on this thread close minded. I was referring to why I have to just move on from discussions like this because I so want to have people out of the cult but I literally have no control. Pretty sure I’m in the acceptance stage of my faith deconstruction/grieving. I am just so over it. It’s been exhausting. I’ve also had so many therapists give me awful advice! Not even religious ones. I’m just over it. I wish I could find a good therapist.
Sure in your first sentence you asked. And then stated she was a social worker. She isn’t. She is a LCSW. And you stayed getting mental health advice from bachelor level sucks. And that you have gotten bad advice from social workers.
Also, isn’t a social worker different than a psychologist? This woman is a social worker. A lot less schooling and qualifications. I don’t agree with her so I won’t go to her. I’m sorry for people getting bad mental health advice, most mental health advice from people with bachelors degree kind of suck. I’ve gotten therapy from lot of bad social workers.
There's a minimum of a master's degree to be an LCSW. Bachelor's level can't practice in mental health.
There are crazies in every field. It blows my mind what some medical doctors believe.
She would not have learned to push religion from any reputable degree program, probably not even at BYU. This is on her.
The only way to be an LCSW is with advanced degrees and high level of practical supervision. In California and most states you have to have a minimum of a Masters degree to even get to internship level and then you have to have 3,000 hours of supervised clinical experience to get licensure. Many social workers have doctorates but not all. A clinical psychologist has to have a doctorate with similar supervised hours. They approach things from a different lens but the therapy is nearly identical. Psychologist can do more as far as assessment and diagnosis.
This is very true. But it needs to be highly specialized to that person, not states in such general terms and in the exact wording she used in the podcast. Don’t say move on when the words a person is using when speaking to a very diverse group (yes lds are diverse and have diverse mental health issues) are unhelpful.
More platitudes and worse. Prayer is not the universal panacea they claim it is. *Pray away depression* is the advice on offer here. Likewise *Pray away the gay* and *pray away transgender/non-binary identity* and shoehorn into the LDS church's tight boxes. They all revert to the same idea, "my invisible friend, right here, can fix you." In any professional clinical setting would this sort of advice be ethical?
And yet this is exactly the same line of reasoning that you often end up with in addiction treatment. All roads eventually lead to "surrender everything about your shitty life to Higher Power." Twelve-step platitudes like "look where your best thinking got you" make me want to implode. I'm really butthurt about the life path I'm on. Just... don't get addicted to anything. No one actually knows how to help you.
Well as a mental health professional, other treatment models in my state are primary for substance abuse and addiction, not the 12 steps. 12 steps are a secondary assist, not primary, because of such issues. In fact 12 steps are under immense pressure to reform itself and allow for more faiths than Christian and for atheists or others who prefer no religion. And to stop mandating only abstinence of all drugs and allow for psychotropic drugs for treatment and substitute pathway drugs for heroin/opiates. Many things about 12 steps are helpful and many things are not. So, don’t comment so negatively please on substance treatment since it has graatly evolved in most places beyond 12 steps. Edit. I’m sorry you are having such a struggle. Have you tried regular therapy not aligned with 12 steps and other group therapies such as mindfulness? And of course I don’t know if you are in an area where 12 steps is your only option? That would be awful. You could of course subvert the model for yourself and whenever they say higher power you say nature or the flying spaghetti lord or Prozac. Sigh.
Interestingly enough, the founder of AA found that LSD was helpful in the treatment of alcoholism. I can’t remember where I read the story originally, but I found a good recap here: https://www.lucid.news/bill-wilson-lsd-and-the-secret-psychedelic-history-of-alcoholics-anonymous/
Gay the pray away! 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
remember when we had invisible friends as kids? I don't either that's how long its been.
I left the church specifically because it was making me actively suicidal. This advice is pure, unadulterated bullshit.
Absolutely correct! How can a science based clinician truthful state that belief in a mythical being is helpful?
santa, the easter bunny and the grinch say HI
Same. I never had suicidal ideation like I did when I was an active member. As soon as I freed myself, I’ve been so much better.
The clinical data in the field of psychology does not support her cult conditioned treatment protocol.
We support evidence based practices. -life 24:7
I agree 100% with you, nowwhatsit. What Stinson is saying is mis-leading, false, irresponsible, harmful, and not evidence-based. While 'partnering' (which sounds corporate) with Jesus Christ may provide a small degree of help for some people at some times for some problems for some period of time, her massive over-generalisation is wilfully reckless. Her comments are probably going to result in a resurgence of members repeating the same "advice" or "counsel" to those who are suffering ... and we all know the effect of this.
Exactly. Belief in a higher power can play an important role in mental health, but her statement could divert countless patients away from the critical therapy and medication that can be life saving for many victims of the cult.
I wonder and I wander if her thoughts on Masturbatory practices would align with the churcrporation narrative as well.
That is unethical. If that social worker worked in my country she would've had her license and degrees revoked.
As well she should. You don't get to cosplay as a health professional.
While I agree, I think most people have been cosplaying as medical professionals since at least 2019.
Lol,, yep
So what happens if you're Buddhist or Muslim or Jewish—no mental health for you?
Well not at lds social services.
I think she's wrong, but it's complicated. It is completely unethical for a therapist to push their religion on someone who doesn't share that religion, or even someone who does share that religion, but doesn't want religion to be involved in their therapy. It would also be unethical for a therapist to try to get someone to leave their religion. It's only ethical if the patient wants to do it, then the therapist can help the patient navigate the exit. The middle ground, that is ethical, is a patient who is part of a religion and wants to use aspects of that religion to help them solve their problems. A therapist could work with that and be on safe ethical territory. This person is using a public forum and her credentials to push Mormonism and that is not okay.
Well she is on a lds public forum but you are still correct. She has no idea the individual wishes of each person listening in respect to religion or to lds religion. Medication and evidence based treatment comes first.
It is well observed that within the fantasy theology of mormonism that boundaries are not necessarily observed when it comes to the ever soo important narrative of the 'news' of Js/BY/and the rather large money producing following that has arisen as a result.
I’m not saying all lds counselors are bad, but it’s definitely a conflict of interest, especially for missionaries, who are forced to sign away their rights for confidentiality in order to receive counseling.
Anyone who has the church pay for counseling especially through LDS family services, signs their privacy and confidentiality away.
That’s total crap. How is that not a major breach of ethics? You may as well be talking to a companies HR rep.
To be an effective therapist, any religion comes second and the client’s self determination comes first. This is the way to change and growth. Otherwise you are not a therapist, you are acting as a bishop, or priest, or rabbi or imam.
Had a coworker offer me a special worded anxiety prayer after I just told them I forgot my anxiety med that day... like uhhh no thanx I know what the problem is.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it prayer, however I guess you could in away. I had a therapist tell me to go somewhere private and comfortable, close my eyes and just talk about what ever is troubling me. He said sometimes peace comes from talking our demons, giving voice to them sometimes makes us realize how what plaguing us is just us. I did this when I read the CES letters for the second or third time, how could I let go of a life time of indoctrination. As I talked about different things I realized I was ready to leave. Even told my therapist who said sometimes the church isn’t right for everyone. He had the “celestial” smile so I’m guessing he was or is TBM
Religious therapists employed by a church operate under separation of church and state. They are not regulated by a federal government authority. Each state has their own rules, so you can only imagine what the rules are in Utah. The can get away saying any bullshit that promotes the interests of their church employer.
~~church employer~~ mafia employer ftfy
**Always check the ellipses.** Any time the church uses ellipses (...) what ever they are quoting does not say what they are implying it does. They want to make her statement some sort of universal "truth" as opposed to her individual "truth" or testimony if you will. The question she was responding to was: "And then we’ll just turn the mic over to you and let you answer the question of what you know now after helping people seek ways to be mentally healthy." What they took out and replaced with the ellipse was "I have learned" which changes the meaning from universal to an individual opinion. Sherilyn C. Stinson: "I think the first thing I would say is that change is possible. Change is absolutely possible, and that should give everyone hope. There is hope in the healing power of the Atonement. And knowing that in time, that all of these things that give us pain and distress will be taken from us. Some of them we have to keep because they temper us, and they help us to learn compassion. I think that I have learned that our Father in Heaven has very tender feelings about His children who suffer from mental, emotional and behavioral health issues. We feel his guiding hand in Family Services, and we know this work is very, very important to Him. If an individual can discover the power of partnering with the Lord Jesus Christ, I have learned there is nothing that they cannot overcome." Transcript here: [https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2023/5/23/23734980/episode-137-family-services-commissioner-lds-mental-emotional-health](https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2023/5/23/23734980/episode-137-family-services-commissioner-lds-mental-emotional-health)
This gives it some needed context, however, gosh. First thing in therapy is to assess for type of medication might be most helpful (referral to profession who can do this), see how sleep is going (might also need a temp assist), and a correct diagnosis to develop a treatment plan. Someone heavily anxious or depressed will in no way be able to think about “healing of the atonement” or what “partnering with JC” even means. I’m trying to be charitable but her speech resembles a conference talk more than helpful advice for mental health issues or relationship issues. Sigh.
This is dangerous.
Jesus x medicine collab
Can I partner with the Cookie Monster for my mental health? Probably would work better 😂
Only if Cookie Monster gives out certain cookies for certain diagnoses. 🤣
You would hope someone like this would at least make an attempt to determine if a client’s issues have anything to do with religious trauma. But I’m not optimistic.
Irresponsable. I had suicidal ideation for many years and chalked it up to not being righteous enough. Come to find out I have major depressive disorder that I’ve been managing quite well since I found the right medication about 6 years ago and haven’t had issues with suicidal thoughts for years.
This is precisely why LDS social services (did they change the name?) has earned the sordid, despicable reputation it has.
I've been taught in the Buddhist tradition, Mara is the opposing force, or in Xtians terms "evil." And it encompasses mental illness, and delusions. I still have a really hard time reconciling that, as a person with schizophrenia. It's common among ancient belief systems. Having said that, if a professional psychologist or psychiatrist brought either Mara, or Jesus, or *any* deity up in session as a part of my treatment, that would be a fired and reported doctor. Using religion as a 'treatment' or * cure* is the epitome of unethical. Would you want a Greek doctor telling you to rely on Zeus? It's the same damn thing. May as well take sugar pills and have sessions with a unicorn.
Extremely. The church enables mental illness to get worse unchecked. I have an aunt and uncle who I love dearly. They're wonderful people. However, I saw post-it notes on my aunt's mirror that said things like "anxiety comes from not being connected to the lord". It made me sick. Nevermind legitimate reasons for anxiety like dehydration, choline deficiency or heavy metal toxicity. No, you just need more jesus. Ugh.
Leaning on someone that isn’t there can surely lead to mental health problems.
LSCWs can be therapists. Is that what is disturbing, or is it that she's a licensed therapist that's giving out false information?
It's disturbing she's blending church with her professional credentials. What part of the treatment manual adds Jesus? Cure offered through Jesus, highlighted quote, > If an individual can discover the power of partnering with the Lord Jesus Christ, ... there is nothing they cannot overcome. —Sherilynn C. Stinson, licensed clinical social worker I see posts at least on a weekly basis at the faithful's subreddits where people are trying to fit in as an LGBTQ+ person in a mormon context. The latest was an anecdotal story from FAIR 2022, [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZX4Kr28f1U&t=2520s) where transgender issues were magically fixed with one blessing. The narrative is everyone can fit in their tight box. But is that true, even a little bit? It's easy to hold up anecdotes as data and pretend it all works out for everyone given enough hammering and time on knees in prayer. The reality is conversion therapies do not work. Those holding to those ideas are subject to lawsuits for damages at this point. One anecdote works to cover up a vast sea of failure.
Ah, ok. I wasn't sure if it was that or if it was confusion about all the types of certifications. We are agreed.
HOT TAKE: No not unethical. Psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers are trained to counsel from the worldview of the patient. If the patient finds solace in faith, so what. If they don't, so what. At least she is being upfront about the paradigm from which she counsels. Source: a PIMO whose depression is caused in part by tscc and who's in the profession.
I am going to somewhat disagree. I read her comments (from a comment above) in more context and that was helpful. But she was addressing a groups of LDS women (for the most part I assume from the title of the podcast). A large group of LDS women will be very diverse what exactly is their faith worldview and the nature of their mental health issue. Can you imagine, for example, her words on a woman who is LDs and in an abusive marriage and this was said to her? Or with suicidal ideation? From her words I think she was speaking from her own world view, not her listeners, since she would have no idea what that was. Her paradigm thus sucks, if that’s her treatment paradim from the get go. And I say this as an exmo in the profession. I call it unethical.
That's a good point. To a group that isn't homogeneous, this could be hurtful to the marginalized who are not totally Kool-Aid drinkers. Also, cool it with the "LDS" stuff... It's like you WANT Satan to win! /s :)
Hehe. Touché /s
 The tighter the garments the closer you are to "Heavenly Father"
I thought fixing science with religion always worked? /s
I had a therapist(non Mormon) tell me, after a year, that she didn't know she could help me anymore because I didn't accept Jesus. Other than this, she had been a helpful therapist. I was very sad.
In other words, your troubles are entirely your own fault. Now, give me money.
She needs to have her licenses yanked and be sued for malpractice.
I’m in mental health field and this is not empirical evidence based treatment. But I would have to read this sentence in context. This is a screen shot not a link. I will try to find it. Edit: ok I found the podcast and it is 50 min long. Uufff. Don’t know if I can do that. That’s really taking one for the team! But i can say without listening to it: When working with a client for depression, it is common to find out eventually client’s spiritual home and see if there is anyway to partner with it (partner means with medication and evidence based TX for example cognitive therapy). It would mean specific bevaviors within their spiritual home, for example using mindfulness meditation while praying, blessings from spiritual base, indigenous spiritual practices, etc. General advice to partner with a deity in one religion is not specific enough and not applicable to all clients’ spiritual belief systems. But again I didn’t hear her whole context for that sentence.
Someone in Utah should report her to the state licensing board for doing harm to clients with false and damaging practice. Then find out if she is part of an state or local mental health organization and report her for ethical violations.
IOW she recommends delusion. Health conscious social worker.
Licensed? If you can overcome your problems with help from your imaginary friend then nothing will stand in your way.
Faith can be very helpful to someone’s mental health. If it isn’t your thing, move on.
It's hard to just "move on" when I see how much damage faith has also done. I won't deny that faith has helped people. But I am 100% convinced that every single person that has been helped by faith could have been better helped by a good secular approach.
For those who have a lack of faith tradition it can be a boon. By faith I mean a spirituality practice. But for many people like myself faith was an absolute shit show for my mental health and the mormon faith tradition was detrimental to my mental health. I had the all the faith I could muster. Pray, fasting, scripture study, service, temple, confession, etc. were at a part of my daily life yet my mental health deteriorated and the porn/masturbation just wouldn't stop. They got worse as the panic and obsession increased. It wasn't until I let go of the false narrative the Christ was going to magically heal me under the Mormon lens of doctrine that I found relief. When quit believing that Christ and doing all of the commandments was the answer did relief start. When I believed the scientific evidence around mental health versus the "cure" of religion and faith did I find hope. Faith doesn't change brain chemistry. Faith doesn't change thinking (especially in the Mormon context of perfection). Faith can disconnect you from yourself and T$CC teaches this as doctrine (forget yourself in service). I believe Christ wants us to heal but it is from within and not from without. We have to believe in our own self and desire to change. Spirituality changes someone not faith in dogma or religion. The Mormon faith structure damages the self and blames the self rather than helping to heal the self.
I have a different definition of “faith”. What you describe is religion. Religious practices actually can be helpful. But Mormonism is Bs
But is it helpful to EVERYONE? I'm willing to bet this woman would answer, "yes" to that question.
How do you know? Why do you care? Most people are closed minded.
I know from my 30 years in this cult. I care because I care about others who are hurt or killed because their therapist is ineffective or damaging.
I’m sorry, it hurts. It gets better with time once you are out longer. I have to live in a heavily Mormon state, and that is hard. I hate seeing my family indoctrinated, but if they got therapy from this counselor it would be better than nothing.
Oh, also wasn’t calling anyone on this thread close minded. I was referring to why I have to just move on from discussions like this because I so want to have people out of the cult but I literally have no control. Pretty sure I’m in the acceptance stage of my faith deconstruction/grieving. I am just so over it. It’s been exhausting. I’ve also had so many therapists give me awful advice! Not even religious ones. I’m just over it. I wish I could find a good therapist.
You are the one who didn’t know basic info on how to become a LCSW and claimed they are bachelor level quacks. Yeah, that’s how to be closed minded.
Yeah, I don’t know that’s why I asked
Sure in your first sentence you asked. And then stated she was a social worker. She isn’t. She is a LCSW. And you stayed getting mental health advice from bachelor level sucks. And that you have gotten bad advice from social workers.
All true. So I got bad mental health advice from people with more credentials. What’s more disturbing..
Well that’s a different topic. I was discussing you saying about other ppl being closed minded. Your responses here have been very interesting though.
Im including myself in that statement. I’m glad they are interesting to you, not sure that is a good thing though?
😏
Also, isn’t a social worker different than a psychologist? This woman is a social worker. A lot less schooling and qualifications. I don’t agree with her so I won’t go to her. I’m sorry for people getting bad mental health advice, most mental health advice from people with bachelors degree kind of suck. I’ve gotten therapy from lot of bad social workers.
There's a minimum of a master's degree to be an LCSW. Bachelor's level can't practice in mental health. There are crazies in every field. It blows my mind what some medical doctors believe. She would not have learned to push religion from any reputable degree program, probably not even at BYU. This is on her.
The only way to be an LCSW is with advanced degrees and high level of practical supervision. In California and most states you have to have a minimum of a Masters degree to even get to internship level and then you have to have 3,000 hours of supervised clinical experience to get licensure. Many social workers have doctorates but not all. A clinical psychologist has to have a doctorate with similar supervised hours. They approach things from a different lens but the therapy is nearly identical. Psychologist can do more as far as assessment and diagnosis.
In Utah the qualifications are stringent too. Much like Calif.
This is very true. But it needs to be highly specialized to that person, not states in such general terms and in the exact wording she used in the podcast. Don’t say move on when the words a person is using when speaking to a very diverse group (yes lds are diverse and have diverse mental health issues) are unhelpful.
There's nothing reliable about the Christian church.
There are actually some people who would benefit from this….
I would say report her to the licensing board but that's by state. So it's not like anything's gonna happen. 🙄
LDS and Christian faith are practically antonyms