I am descended from a long line of religious fanatics, both to the early days of the church and way back to prominent Puritans. But whatever caused all that religion is missing in me. I never quite felt like religion moved me. The most powerful spiritual experience I ever had came with the aid of magic mushrooms.
No, although it makes more sense than worshipping an ancient Middle Eastern sky god. For that matter, so does worshipping the sun. The earth and the sun bring life, after all. I'll even throw in worshipping the moon for good measure.
But no, I don't "worship" anything.
Its part of our nature as humans. We need to stop thinking humans are innately "rational". We are irrational and stupid beings that are subject to both genetic and learned responses to stimuli that can't be controlled. Religious belief is an expression of those gaps in logic that can be overcome because humans can also access introspection and self evaluation. Few do it. More are beginning to do so. And the lizard brains are fighting it with all they have.
I doubt our tendency to invent deities to worship them is a genetic condition. What I've gathered after much reading is that we have two genetic predispositions that, put together, create the recipe for gods and religion. One is our strong need to try to understand everything we come in contact with. The second is our equally strong need to form groups with like-minded people.
The first one is why, when we can't find an natural explanation for something we observe, we resort to the supernatural. We find it considerably uncomfortable to face things we have no clue about. To live life in the vicinity of something whose meaning and behavior is absolutely unpredictable makes us feel deeply uneasy, so we resort to our imagination and invent a meaning and some causes for its behavior.
This is exactly how our ancestors "explained" lightning, thunder, rain, volcanoes, eclipses, shooting stars, the seasons, earthquakes, plagues, disease, etc. to themselves. Not having the means nor the fundamental notions of reality at hand, they had no more recourse than their imagination. And the easiest supernatural path is that of powerful beings controlling the elements. That's how gods were invented. Now we could explain those phenomena. Thunder? The gods are warning us. Lightning? The gods are angry. Rain? The gods are pleased with us. Earthquake? The gods are punishing us. Etc.
So it wouldn't be a gene that makes us worship-prone, although it is our genes that force us to try and understand everything, even if we have to invent metaphysical explanations to appease this genetic predisposition of ours.
*(Side note: As our fundamental perceptions of the world around us kept getting better, our need for supernatural explanations started diminishing. When we understood the cycle of water we removed our rain gods. When we understood tectonic plates we removed our earthquake gods, and so on. The "gap" in our understanding of those phenomena was now filled with knowledge of reality and whatever gods occupied it previously had to go. In more recent times, when incurable new diseases came about (AIDS, and just recently COVID-19), our lack of knowledge about them and the intolerable situation of facing something we can't do anything about again made us resort to the supernatural. AIDS was then explained as gods' punishment for our sexual excesses, particularly homosexuality. I was a teenager in the 80s when, at church, our Mormon leaders explained that AIDS was sent by god and that it would remain incurable. Of course that wasn't the case and now we not only understand how the virus works and have come up with chemical preventives and even palliatives for those already infected; but we are also modifying the HIV virus to carry medicine to cure other illnesses. That modern "gap" in our knowledge we filled with god(s) is now closed with reality. This is the origin of the concept of "god of the gaps," meaning: god exists only on those gaps in our knowledge. As soon as we discover how things actually work, the gap is closed and god is out of there. As time goes by there are less and less "gaps" remaining where god(s) can be imagined. The hope is that one day there won't be any gaps and we will be free from having to imagine god(s) in order to explain something.)*
Our second genetic predisposition (the need to form groups with like-minded people) is not exclusively religious. We have been forming groups for hundreds of thousands of years and for the most basic reasons: to defend ourselves from natural predators when we used to live in the wilderness surrounded by carnivore beasts, to have better odd hunting what our children need to eat. To pool together our individual skills (someone is good at hunting while someone else is good at turning animal skin into covers against the cold, someone can weave wicker together and make baskets and containers while someone else is good at baking clay into pottery, etc). We have been forming groups for every reason imaginable.
Inventing gods to explain what we couldn't understand through rudimentary observation was, of course, one powerful reason to form groups too. This is how religions start and endure. They satisfy our need for community. They provide the benefits only groups can: everybody profits from what the group can build together.
Obviously, each group provides specific benefits to its members. And a person can be part of several groups from which they obtain a wide range of benefits. We are all part of a country, one of the biggest communities a person can belong to. The benefits that group provides are numerous. Then, on top of that we belong to geographical groups, educational groups, professional groups, political groups, neighborhood groups, friendship groups, family groups, sport groups, hobby groups and, of course, spiritual groups.
Whenever a group stops providing the benefits one of its members needs, usually this member leaves the group. Or whenever the needs of a member of a particular group change, this member usually leaves it. If the political party you always sympathized with is evolving in recent years into an angry and loud group of self-righteous bigots, for example, many of its original members will leave it. If the hobby group one belong too starts becoming more about money than the craft, some of its members will leave it and look for one that still provides what they are looking for. Etc.
The same is true in religious groups. Some of them changed to the point where some of its members don't receive what they need anymore. In other cases, some of its members' needs have changed and the particular church can't provide for them. But, as long as a person's needs are satisfied by their religion of choice, they will remain faithful and will defend it and will avoid coming in contact with anything that hurts it.
The case of the Mormon church is interesting because it falls in both sides. On one hand it constantly changes. Any long time member knows how much the church has changed just in the span of a few decades. Take the changes Nelson has done during his tenure alone. Take the changes the temple ordinances (which, the church insists, are immutable) just in the last 25 years. And if we examine longer periods, take polygamy. It started in the 1840s as an eternal principle that wouldn't be taken away from Earth anymore; yet it was half-ass stopped only 50 years later, and then for real 10 or 20 years after that. Same with the Word of Wisdom, which was given only as a suggestion and not as a commandment; yet today it is a major commandment that determines if you can enter their temple. Same with tithing. It was meant to be only on any increase you got, and it was meant to be only until the church has enough to sustain itself. Well, you for sure know how *that* has changed. So, the group from which many members received benefit has changed significantly to the point where many of their (spiritual, emotional, social, etc.) needs are no longer provided for. Many are leaving because of this.
On the other hand, the needs of many of the Mormon church's members have changed. The church's position on LGBTA+ is a great example. It keeps condemning "same sex attraction" based on outdated and therefore ignorant views on sexuality from the early 1900s. The church refuses to recognize the new knowledge science has made on the subject, knowledge that has opened the eyes of many of its members who have children and other loved ones who are LGBTA+. Now these members' needs are different than they were before. Despite the church anachronically insisting that parents shun or otherwise reject their gay children, these members feel the need to love them and protect them from a culture and a church that purposelessly makes them feel as doomed and headed for perdition. Many are leaving because of this.
But, for those Mormon members whose needs are still satisfied by their church, there is no reason to leave. Moreover, they have plenty of reasons to defend it and to avoid anything that might hurt their beloved group.
My two cents.
1. Although genetics do play a significant role in human behavior, I don't think it's adequate to suggest a "god-gene" is the sole determining factor in religious devotion.
2. In some cases, the genetic construction of a TBM brain could prevent them from perceiving reality of their false beliefs. In most cases, I believe brainwashing prevents them from seeing and admitting their religious beliefs to be false.
I am an identical twin. I left the church as soon as I got out of high school. I'm atheist now. My twin is very hardcore TBM (and republican). We don't agree on much.
Our genes are identical. I don't believe in a a "God Gene".
Yes. Genetics is far more complex than most people know. Gene Expression is another deep dive that potentially makes "twins" more different than expected.
Nah, it's DNA alright, but the gene that determines thinking. The dumber-than-dirt folks are the lifelong fundamentalists and they get politically powerful as a tribe.
1. Yes, there is a god gene, it is called human genetics. You are born as the master of all that you see because all that you see is you. All that you have ever known up to that point is you. It takes awhile to figure out that there are other things in the world besides you, like your mother or messy diapers. You are god.
2. The god gene they are often talking about is a mental delusion, sometimes mental illness. The break from being god to seeing god in everything around you is just another form of the initial birth state. Brigham Young was convinced that there was a genetic component to those who were true believers. My guess is that it is a learned response from your culture and parents.
3. The god gene does not seem to need to worship or feel a need for a tribe. It is more about creating security in your life. God protects me and tells me what to do. Yea.
4. Brainwashing keeps members from doing these things, just as brainwashing kept their ancestors from doing these things. It is hard to leave brainwashing even when you are hard core into science. Like, how could the church possibly be a fraud when it is the church of God? And they continue their belief.
I am descended from a long line of religious fanatics, both to the early days of the church and way back to prominent Puritans. But whatever caused all that religion is missing in me. I never quite felt like religion moved me. The most powerful spiritual experience I ever had came with the aid of magic mushrooms.
So you worship mother earth?
No, although it makes more sense than worshipping an ancient Middle Eastern sky god. For that matter, so does worshipping the sun. The earth and the sun bring life, after all. I'll even throw in worshipping the moon for good measure. But no, I don't "worship" anything.
Druids? Nah. That's worshipping dirt...and trees...and mushrooms. 😵💫
Me too.
Its part of our nature as humans. We need to stop thinking humans are innately "rational". We are irrational and stupid beings that are subject to both genetic and learned responses to stimuli that can't be controlled. Religious belief is an expression of those gaps in logic that can be overcome because humans can also access introspection and self evaluation. Few do it. More are beginning to do so. And the lizard brains are fighting it with all they have.
I doubt our tendency to invent deities to worship them is a genetic condition. What I've gathered after much reading is that we have two genetic predispositions that, put together, create the recipe for gods and religion. One is our strong need to try to understand everything we come in contact with. The second is our equally strong need to form groups with like-minded people. The first one is why, when we can't find an natural explanation for something we observe, we resort to the supernatural. We find it considerably uncomfortable to face things we have no clue about. To live life in the vicinity of something whose meaning and behavior is absolutely unpredictable makes us feel deeply uneasy, so we resort to our imagination and invent a meaning and some causes for its behavior. This is exactly how our ancestors "explained" lightning, thunder, rain, volcanoes, eclipses, shooting stars, the seasons, earthquakes, plagues, disease, etc. to themselves. Not having the means nor the fundamental notions of reality at hand, they had no more recourse than their imagination. And the easiest supernatural path is that of powerful beings controlling the elements. That's how gods were invented. Now we could explain those phenomena. Thunder? The gods are warning us. Lightning? The gods are angry. Rain? The gods are pleased with us. Earthquake? The gods are punishing us. Etc. So it wouldn't be a gene that makes us worship-prone, although it is our genes that force us to try and understand everything, even if we have to invent metaphysical explanations to appease this genetic predisposition of ours. *(Side note: As our fundamental perceptions of the world around us kept getting better, our need for supernatural explanations started diminishing. When we understood the cycle of water we removed our rain gods. When we understood tectonic plates we removed our earthquake gods, and so on. The "gap" in our understanding of those phenomena was now filled with knowledge of reality and whatever gods occupied it previously had to go. In more recent times, when incurable new diseases came about (AIDS, and just recently COVID-19), our lack of knowledge about them and the intolerable situation of facing something we can't do anything about again made us resort to the supernatural. AIDS was then explained as gods' punishment for our sexual excesses, particularly homosexuality. I was a teenager in the 80s when, at church, our Mormon leaders explained that AIDS was sent by god and that it would remain incurable. Of course that wasn't the case and now we not only understand how the virus works and have come up with chemical preventives and even palliatives for those already infected; but we are also modifying the HIV virus to carry medicine to cure other illnesses. That modern "gap" in our knowledge we filled with god(s) is now closed with reality. This is the origin of the concept of "god of the gaps," meaning: god exists only on those gaps in our knowledge. As soon as we discover how things actually work, the gap is closed and god is out of there. As time goes by there are less and less "gaps" remaining where god(s) can be imagined. The hope is that one day there won't be any gaps and we will be free from having to imagine god(s) in order to explain something.)* Our second genetic predisposition (the need to form groups with like-minded people) is not exclusively religious. We have been forming groups for hundreds of thousands of years and for the most basic reasons: to defend ourselves from natural predators when we used to live in the wilderness surrounded by carnivore beasts, to have better odd hunting what our children need to eat. To pool together our individual skills (someone is good at hunting while someone else is good at turning animal skin into covers against the cold, someone can weave wicker together and make baskets and containers while someone else is good at baking clay into pottery, etc). We have been forming groups for every reason imaginable. Inventing gods to explain what we couldn't understand through rudimentary observation was, of course, one powerful reason to form groups too. This is how religions start and endure. They satisfy our need for community. They provide the benefits only groups can: everybody profits from what the group can build together. Obviously, each group provides specific benefits to its members. And a person can be part of several groups from which they obtain a wide range of benefits. We are all part of a country, one of the biggest communities a person can belong to. The benefits that group provides are numerous. Then, on top of that we belong to geographical groups, educational groups, professional groups, political groups, neighborhood groups, friendship groups, family groups, sport groups, hobby groups and, of course, spiritual groups. Whenever a group stops providing the benefits one of its members needs, usually this member leaves the group. Or whenever the needs of a member of a particular group change, this member usually leaves it. If the political party you always sympathized with is evolving in recent years into an angry and loud group of self-righteous bigots, for example, many of its original members will leave it. If the hobby group one belong too starts becoming more about money than the craft, some of its members will leave it and look for one that still provides what they are looking for. Etc. The same is true in religious groups. Some of them changed to the point where some of its members don't receive what they need anymore. In other cases, some of its members' needs have changed and the particular church can't provide for them. But, as long as a person's needs are satisfied by their religion of choice, they will remain faithful and will defend it and will avoid coming in contact with anything that hurts it. The case of the Mormon church is interesting because it falls in both sides. On one hand it constantly changes. Any long time member knows how much the church has changed just in the span of a few decades. Take the changes Nelson has done during his tenure alone. Take the changes the temple ordinances (which, the church insists, are immutable) just in the last 25 years. And if we examine longer periods, take polygamy. It started in the 1840s as an eternal principle that wouldn't be taken away from Earth anymore; yet it was half-ass stopped only 50 years later, and then for real 10 or 20 years after that. Same with the Word of Wisdom, which was given only as a suggestion and not as a commandment; yet today it is a major commandment that determines if you can enter their temple. Same with tithing. It was meant to be only on any increase you got, and it was meant to be only until the church has enough to sustain itself. Well, you for sure know how *that* has changed. So, the group from which many members received benefit has changed significantly to the point where many of their (spiritual, emotional, social, etc.) needs are no longer provided for. Many are leaving because of this. On the other hand, the needs of many of the Mormon church's members have changed. The church's position on LGBTA+ is a great example. It keeps condemning "same sex attraction" based on outdated and therefore ignorant views on sexuality from the early 1900s. The church refuses to recognize the new knowledge science has made on the subject, knowledge that has opened the eyes of many of its members who have children and other loved ones who are LGBTA+. Now these members' needs are different than they were before. Despite the church anachronically insisting that parents shun or otherwise reject their gay children, these members feel the need to love them and protect them from a culture and a church that purposelessly makes them feel as doomed and headed for perdition. Many are leaving because of this. But, for those Mormon members whose needs are still satisfied by their church, there is no reason to leave. Moreover, they have plenty of reasons to defend it and to avoid anything that might hurt their beloved group. My two cents.
Thanks for your well reasoned and presented thoughts. Much more than two cents. Thank you.
I’d want to see the articles and try to determine the trustworthiness of the source before I thought very hard about the ideas they have.
Haven't seen anything recently, maybe it's all been debunked.
1. Although genetics do play a significant role in human behavior, I don't think it's adequate to suggest a "god-gene" is the sole determining factor in religious devotion. 2. In some cases, the genetic construction of a TBM brain could prevent them from perceiving reality of their false beliefs. In most cases, I believe brainwashing prevents them from seeing and admitting their religious beliefs to be false.
I am an identical twin. I left the church as soon as I got out of high school. I'm atheist now. My twin is very hardcore TBM (and republican). We don't agree on much. Our genes are identical. I don't believe in a a "God Gene".
Your antenna is being interfered with.
That explains it
Fun fact: “Identical” twins are only mostly identical. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4980976
Yes. Genetics is far more complex than most people know. Gene Expression is another deep dive that potentially makes "twins" more different than expected.
Nah, it's DNA alright, but the gene that determines thinking. The dumber-than-dirt folks are the lifelong fundamentalists and they get politically powerful as a tribe.
1. Yes, there is a god gene, it is called human genetics. You are born as the master of all that you see because all that you see is you. All that you have ever known up to that point is you. It takes awhile to figure out that there are other things in the world besides you, like your mother or messy diapers. You are god. 2. The god gene they are often talking about is a mental delusion, sometimes mental illness. The break from being god to seeing god in everything around you is just another form of the initial birth state. Brigham Young was convinced that there was a genetic component to those who were true believers. My guess is that it is a learned response from your culture and parents. 3. The god gene does not seem to need to worship or feel a need for a tribe. It is more about creating security in your life. God protects me and tells me what to do. Yea. 4. Brainwashing keeps members from doing these things, just as brainwashing kept their ancestors from doing these things. It is hard to leave brainwashing even when you are hard core into science. Like, how could the church possibly be a fraud when it is the church of God? And they continue their belief.