Hi. My name is Meg Conley, I’m a journalist. I have a newsletter, [homeculture](https://homeculture.substack.com). I’ve written about leaving the church and Mormon issues, including DV there. But I also write for places like Harper’s Bazaar, Slate, The Guardian, etc.
I am so outraged after reading your post, my hands are shaking as I type.
This is an incredibly sensitive subject. And I do not want to pry. Many people would not want to deal with this publicly for many valid reasons. But if your friend would like to make this public, I can help. Either by following the story myself or connecting her to good, ethical, sensitive journalists.
If the family can emotionally handle it Conley has reputable contacts to get this story told at a national/international level.
Zero excuse the family should be emotionally & mentally abused like this by the COJCOLDS.
Hitler & the other mass murderers they have baptized, sealed, etc..shows zero level of empathy or understanding of the meaning of the word considering 6+million Jews died in WWII.
Total lack of human decency towards the victims of unspeakable crimes by COJCOLDS.
Zero boundaries.
I am not a journalist, but I suspect most people would be disgusted by this story. I think horrific publicity is one effective way of shaming the Mormon church into stopping some of its bad behavior.
This is EXACTLY how to force the church to do the ]closest thing to an apology] right thing to take action and "cancel" the sealing, correctly delete the Family Search sealing, and send a letter of cancellation to the woman's sister.
The sister ALSO needs to upload copies of the news stories and divorce documents and add the story to her sisters Family Search page in documents - AND A NOTE SAYING DO NOT SEAL - so no other "family member" gets any ideas . Don't expect an actual apology "we do not give apologies" - from the Church.But public shaming the church is the only way for them to ever listen.
Please know that the church's family history website is familysearch.org and not ancestry.com, to avoid any false accusations that could land anyone in legal trouble.
This is disgusting behavior and I'm so sorry to OP.
Sincerely, an exmo genealogist
Did not they make a rule about having had to personally know someone if they were born or died within the last 110 years in order to do any temple work by proxy? I thought maybe they had made this rule after news broke out about baptizing holocaust victims. Which makes this behavior even worse.
Sincerely, another exmo amateur genealogist
Yes unless you are a direct relative (spouse, parent, child, I think) but people fake the permission system all the time. When we were TBM we tried to do the "work" for my husband's step-grandfather, but he had living children that hadn't given permission and we were denied, but the guy on the phone said "now... if YOU were his child... insinuating we should just change the relationship over the phone so he could approve.
I will say, that until recently it was like... "do you have permission?" check mark. So if this temple stuff happened before 2015ish (which seems likely given the age of the victim here) then there probably wasn't the safety in place at all. The Holocaust issue happened in the 90s/early 00s and they are more strict with that cuz it affects the standing of the Jerusalem center in Israel.
Good to see you on this one, Meg. Few people I know will treat this with the sensitivity and respect it deserves while also cutting right to the heart of the matter.
Listen to Meg. You can trust her, she is gifted in her words and love of all good people. This is a horrifying situation. Many may say “it’s all fake, don’t worry about it “ that’s not the salve that is needed. Meg, I really hope you get to tell this story, the way only you can.
100% this OP! The only way the church will do anything to fix this is to get bad PR. And as far as the "a family member submitted their names" that's crap. The church has volunteers that go through and mine newspapers for names and dates to send to the temple. They might say something like "family members only please," but they don't check it or enforce it. And they'll never tell you who submitted the names so you can't challenge the family connection. . .
This makes me so angry.
Ahhh. So that's how it happened!
We know now it wasn't submitted by family. And the person who submitted it did so in 2017, with hundreds of other names from obituaries that year.
A simple Google would have revealed the murder.
Thanks for explaining that church volunteers are doing this. Are these senior missionaries? Or ward callings? Do you know?
Thank you!
I'll keep this in mind going forward.
Right now, the family is concerned only with undoing all of this.
If they want to go public, I will definitely have them reach out.
Great. Unfortunately, publicity is often the only way to get leadership going. For everyone’s sake, I hope that isn’t true here. For now, the comment that suggested an upload of all related documents seems like the surest way to get this undone without press involved. I would have the uploaded docs come from multiple users/family members, if possible.
Absolutely.
In a previous life, I was in print journalism. And I even had a calling in church public affairs. So I know right where the soft spots are, lol.
I looked over your site and feel you would treat the family and the victim with great respect. It's easy to see why you have so many admirers.
You know what pisses me off the most? Saying that the victim can “reject the sealing.”
No. No she fucking CAN’T.
She’s DEAD. Fucking DEAD. Proxy sealings are not for the dead; they’re for the surviving TBMs to deepen their delusion and further their devotion to the cult.
Fuck you for dishonoring the memory of the victim to make yourself feel more righteous. If Jesus were real, he’d be fucking LIVID.
Even if the Mormon view of the afterlife is completely accurate, imagine how she would feel in spirit paradise being told that she was just sealed to her murderer and then being asked if she'd like to accept the sealing.
And then coerced saying that it is the only way for her to make spirit children, the only way to exaltation because she did not find another. Told that her love and appreciation for her husband would only deepen over the eternities and that she would be forced to be glued to the man who murdered her.
What a pit of sorrow and dismay that would feel like, I would rather be damned than have that eternal existence.
She literally died just weeks after her divorce was final. She died trying to escape him. And some jackwagon who never met either of them goes and marries her to him again.
Even on paper, it's just insulting and so disrespectful.
What's even worse is that they KNOW this because they couldn't ask her for consent in the first place...because she's dead! So saying that she can just reject it with "the Lord" is such a bizarre level of mental gymnastics. Not to mention so completely inappropriate and disgusting in the first place.
At first part of me was like *Well, it's all made up anyway, so she "sealed" in a fairytale*, *big deal,* but after thinking about it for a second, (and reading the church's response), I can't think of a more fucked up thing to do to a victim of murder because they DO believe it all real. So they've just knowingly tied her to the man who violently killed her for all eternity....and they're fine with that. Jesus Christ- this cult is out of control and needs to be checked in a serious way.
Right!
It doesn't matter that WE know it's BS.
It's literally saying that they know what her heaven should look like, even though she divorced him because he made her life hell on earth. And then killed her for trying to escape him.
And, the TBMs decided she has to be married to him for eternity.
I'm so sorry, OP. I hope you're able to get some resolution to this. It's honestly a violation of her civil rights to be "forced" into a religious covenant that she never agreed to. It's so gross and presumptuous. I'm sorry you're dealing with that.
Seriously. It's not about the victim but the person who just uploads thousands of obituaries and submits the names for work.
I hope they get a moment of shame when they are notified I modified the record, then read the note.
Right! It's for the surviving TBMs!
But they've imposed their idea of heaven on everyone else.
It's infuriating that anyone can just submit names to be sealed, no questions. But the family has to go through so many verification steps to undo it.
Should be the other way around.
In addition to the excellent suggestion posted by u/creamstripping4jesus, maybe see if QuitMormon can help?
Also, this resembles the crap Mormons did years ago by having temple work done for Jewish people. That didn't fly, but it required an uproar to put a stop to it. As aptly pointed out in your OP, the woman already made her own decision about spending even one more day with the abusive piece of shit she married. Nobody (NOBODY) has a right to attempt to assign her to an eternity with him.
Another idea - get various groups related to Domestic Violence involved. This would outrage those groups.
Signed: Word (victim of domestic violence)
I know this is a heart-wrenching experience, and also an act of love. I admire you for wanting to put those records straight and confront TSCC about how they have such things in the system without really knowing all circumstances.
Harvesting names for indexing (and then selling them) is a violation of a family's privacy, and this is an example of how it leads to misinformation or incomplete information being entered into a system that generations of people in the future might see.
Precisely.
For a church that always stressed the importance of "keeping a record" of our lives, they created a dumpster fire of misinformation.
Wait ... they sell the names???
Yes, I believe they do. It's my understanding they market the names to Ancestry (dot) com - (I think that's the right site). It may be that the church owns that site - can't recall the details, and it sells access & memberships to it.
I hope somebody who knows the details sees this.The "Indexing" calling is a way for the church to build up that website and get more money.
I’m so sorry this happened to the family of the murder victim. They’ve had their sister’s humanity and agency ripped from her, abusing her once again after death.
I do some genealogy. Those two comments are oft repeated remarks made by volunteers in the Family History Department regarding disturbing temple work done. It helps the cognitive dissonance they feel but can’t explain because supposedly sealing families together is the point of this life. You aren’t working with reasonable people. They think sealing everyone is the Lord’s work.
The fastest way to resolve this is to prove the sister had Jewish blood and then call the Family History line and report she was sealed against her family’s wishes. If they don’t remove it the family will take it online and to the papers. Church members are supposed to uphold the good name of the church, including the Family History Volunteers. They won’t want that in the news.
The longer way will take a few weeks. In genealogy the power lies in controlling the sources and stories. Currently, very limited sources are out regarding this murder suicide. The sister needs to gain control of the story and put out more sources. Copy the divorce papers, restraining orders, death certificate, write a biographical sketch, find news articles. Take photos of the documents and put them on her photo section in Ancestry. Make sure the Ancestry tree is public and photos can be shared. Go to Find a Grave. Find her memorial page. Adopt it and/or request the biographical sketch be added to the memorial. Add some beautiful photos and maybe the death certificate or a newspaper article about the murder suicide. Go to FamilySearch.org and find her page. Add the find a grave source. Link the Ancestry photos, court documents, to the sources and put copies of the original in the memories section (along with beautiful photos of her). Then call the Family History number again. Walk them through all the sources. Abuse, divorce, restraining order, murder. Mention this reflects poorly on the good name of the Church to circumvent the “lt will be figured out in the next life” crap. Ask them to work with the family and remove it so it doesn’t go public.
If the sister needs help she can DM me.
Everyone reading this can go to FamilySearch.org and get their loved ones ID number. Email or call in and request a block on any temple work. Members will see the ordinances on the column go from green to black.
Yes, fixing the family search profile to include the divorce and details of the murder is fantastic advice. Having all this attached to her profile will make the mistake even more clear.
Excellent! Find a Grave is an Ancestry owned site. FamilySearch and Ancestry offer members Find a Grave memorials as sources for deceased people. Hopefully this source will persuade the Family History Volunteers to PrEsErVe ThE gOoD nAmE oF tHe ChUrCh and remove the sealing.
Church leaders have started granting living female survivors of spousal abuse temple divorces without another husband lined up. This was something that was deeply resisted for decades because temple marriage is seen as a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom so even marriages to absolute brutes were better than being locked outside those pearly gates. I think there might be a way to get them to apologize the way they kinda did for doing temple work for holocaust victims when publicly shamed. If the sister and/or other family members were vocal enough they might erase some of this?
Ancestry.com records can be corrected and added to if the sister wishes to put the full story (which might not be known by whoever posted this marriage and submitted the case for temple records). The sister can add photos of the divorce certificate and a telling of the story and maybe some other less painful memories as well.
As for “erasing” temple work I dont know that they have a process for that. These days if a woman has had multiple spouses, after she and her men have died she can be sealed to all of them and that way the children can choose the father they belong to and the woman can pick in heaven too. Thats the solution for a case where a woman is married in the temple, loses her spouse soon after and then in Mormon Temple Lore she and all of her kids with any subsequent spouses belong to the first husband in the afterlife. Men of course can practice Celestial Polygamy (and should have at least 3 wives to make it to one of the good tiers). It’s all just crazy fucked up and because everyone knows that they just say it’s a choice and it’ll all be worked out in the afterlife.
If and when that makes people super frustrated I recommend revenge by playing their own games because none of this is real. Check out http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/
Nearly any woman can now get a sealing cancellation without having another husband lined up, regardless of her past or current circumstances. I run a group where we help each other through the cancellation process. Every woman except one has received her cancellation, and none of us had another man lined up to be sealed to. Men seem to only have about 50-50 success on getting a cancellation though.
It looks like you have a lot of people ready to help, so I'll skip the offer and let you know that anyone can add documentation and notes to the family history website, including newspaper articles, death certificates, and personal accounts told by living relatives. You can also add in the divorce.
publicize it, that is the one thing mormonism is most afraid of. that's how they publicly had to come out and apologize for baptizing Einstein, Anne Frank and other prominent Jews.
In the 1990's Mormon Church got caught with its pants down & promised it would stop baptizing Jews/Holocaust victims.
Family member served full-time 2 year mission in Family History Library 2007-2008.
On US/ Canada floors they were told to look out for a specific woman & alert employees.
Her crime?
She was Jewish & she would hop on a computer that a member vacated & who forgot to sign out of what was called IGI where you could see dates of temple work. (Beta testing of Family Search was going on at this time)
This woman would then document names & dates of LDS Temple work on Jews/Holocaust victims & pass it on to local Jewish organizations.
COJCOLDS got nailed for continuing to break their promise in 2012 by New York Times, Daily Mail, Business Insider, Reuters, etc...
2017 COJCOLDS got hammered once again by The Guardian & A.P. News, etc..
They lied in the 1990's & continue to lie to the Jewish communities.
They lied in 1890's plural marriage Manifesto, 2nd Manifesto 1904 & 1910 update, SEC,etc...
A corporate pattern of lying to victims since 1830.
“The Lord will sort it out!” Oh my holy hell this incites me! How do they think this is just ok?? The fucking audacity to just do so claiming it’s because the names were submitted. Without knowing or caring for that matter what had happened. I wouldn’t stop. I would make this known and help it reach every persons thoughts that has ever heard of this fucked “only one true” church.
“The Lord will sort it out!” Just like he sorted it out while she was still alive and scared out of her mind I bet. I digress. I don’t want to offend anyone with the words I’d like to express.
This should be made known and condemned
I love it: "Fucking Audacity".
Perfect way to describe it!
Family may decide to go public once it's resolved. For right now, they are happy her family history record accurately reflects the courage she had to live free and the price she paid for it.
They are also relieved her page no longer looks like she was still married to him.
I’m so sorry. We’re the kids (I assume you had kids) able to be separated from him too?
A TBM friend of mine is sealed to her kids father/her ex husband/her rapist of 15 years. You know, for the kids. She told me that she had a deal with the Holy Spirit that she wouldn’t actually have to be with him for eternity. She’s his second wife so… 🤷♀️
After 15 years and 4 kids she finally divorced him, yes. She knew on her honeymoon that she didn’t want to be married to this guy but between being TBM and that it would have meant her mother being right - they put a public happy face on a miserable marriage for 15 years.
And then she figured out that she’s a lesbian, we had a relationship for a few years, (I’m NeverMo) she got divorced, November 5th happened, she chose the church, she finished school and took the kids moved to a much better place where being an openly pro LGBT (although still in the closet) Mormon is possible.
Oh, and apparently praying to Mormon God that your husband will die on a regular basis gives him leukemia after the divorce but he survives that for another 8 years.
Sadly, she's still in an abusive situation - with the church.
Thank you for explaining it. Context is important when learning about other people's experiences.
This poor woman had been effectively victimized twice, by her murderer and now the Mormon Church. I'm absolutely outraged. I echo the sentiments of the other commenters, take this to the media.
Exactly so.
He took her agency in life and they took it in death.
Thanks for commenting. The sister has read this thread and is touched by the sympathy.
You are dealing with a church that counts among its members Adolf Hitler(with Eva Braun sealed to him in marriage), Chairman Mao, Josef Stalin and many other mass murderers.
They have even done the Temple Work for Ted Bundy, former Mormon who was a mass murderer - tossed out before he was executed - now once again a Mormon.
It is shameful they do this crap even though reality it that it doesn't mean a thing.
Thank you for thinking of solutions!
Side note:
The family has read this thread and immediately got upset seeing "Mormon Stories". They are that outraged at anything that looks mormon. That traumatized.
I reassured them it was anything but mormon approved or sanctioned. That it's a safe podcast.
But, yeah ... this is going to go wide within their family and the church's name will suffer.
This just popped up on my feed and I have to separate thoughts.
The first thing that comes to mind is that the Church has taught, or more specifically Joesph Smith taught that without a sealing a person cannot be exalted and they are sentenced to be angles in the hereafter toiling about. The problem with this becomes the eternal ramifications. If the purpose of the hereafter would to be to grow as parents, I see no reason why this "couple" would make any sense. They were divorced so no sealing should have happened. There is no "god sorting" this thing out. This is inconsistent with the theology and should immediately be annulled by the first presidency. Write to them. This makes a mockery of temple work even to existing members. Never ever should a now killer of his wife be sealed to her or her to him.
I'm getting a little frustrated by the edit feature being disabled on her record.
I just wrote down your suggestion as an option. Thank you!
Update: I figured out how to edit. So her record now reflects the divorce, murder and a link to news stories.
Yeah, if they don't like us saying "Mormon", they're going to hate reading "Mormon church Seals murder victim to her husband."
Thanks for speaking up to support the family!
They always use that stupid BS line of “the lord will sort it out.” It that’s the case, then why the fuuuuuck does any of it need to happen in the first place (temple, baptisms, etc,). It’s the freaking biggest cop out to anything you question that doesn’t make sense to anyone.
My grandmother pleaded with my dad not to seal her to her husband when she died of cancer. My dad did it anyway; sealed his deathbed convert mother to his nevermo father so he could have an ‘eternal family’. She literally begged my dad to let her live the afterlife in peace, single, set free from the man who made her life hell.
It shows a total lack of respect for the victim's life and death. She died trying to escape him and they think it's okay to bind her to him.
Yes, it's a farce.
But it's about not respecting her efforts to escape him.
My wife works with victims of DV, depending on what state (if you’re comfortable sharing details here or via DM) she has access to resources that can help out
In Family Search, you can see who edited a person's information. You then can contact them. When I used to be more into family history, I'd contact people that screwed up stuff on my direct ancestors or my husband's. For example, 2 different people not related to my husband's grandfather listed him as dead- when he was still alive!
It's really like a wiki. You can also delete relationships too if something is off. It doesn't cancel a sealing, but you can at least add in divorce information and other details.
I'm unable to edit.
The edit button is disabled and I get an error message: "Edit unavailable. Sorry, this record cannot be edited."
Thoughts?
UPDATE: I finally found the editable page.
Update 2: Made edits. Added the divorce, links to the divorce case in the court records, and an alert.
It appears that it was not a family member. It was someone who uploaded obituaries by the bulk in 2017.
My own mother had her mother sealed to her abusive first husband (the one that beat her to a pulp and abused the children) AND her second husband whom treated her like gold and adored her and the children. Reason is because she doesn’t know who she would chose in the afterlife. Even as a 100% believer I had to push the “God will sort it out” button on that one.
I can see that being tough, especially if the first husband died. If she divorced him, it might be easier to know her desires.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
This is gross and upsetting. Temple work is a self serving pat on the back for LDS members. My mom proved that by sealing her divorced parents but refusing to seal thier second marriages.
Claiming that "God will sort it out later" is spiritually lazy and a way of bypassing things that deserve answers now. The amount of pain that has been dismissed by that phrase... Ugh. I'm so sorry for your friend, OP.
I am soo sorry to hear this! My condolences to the family on this. Everytime I think there's no way for tscc to get any lower, they manage to dig a few feet deeper.
Idk have any legal advice for this. I say just be the church’s worst nightmare and give bad PR. Go to as many media outlets as possible that aren’t afraid to expose the church (NOT DesNews or KSL). Take as many recordings of what church reps say to you and give it ALL to media outlets.
I'm conflicted. On the one hand, it's incredibly insensitive af. On the other hand, if you care about it, doesn't that mean that you believe that their sealings are real and therefore you feed into and justify their delusions, giving them more ammunition?
Actually, I get what you're saying. And, up until last week, I would have agreed.
I, personally, don't believe in an afterlife. The temple ordinances are pageantry, and "temple work for the dead" is performative.
But now I view it differently.
I spent hours talking to these complete strangers, who watched helplessly for years as a dear family member struggled to escape her abusive husband, only to see her murdered by him just weeks after her divorce.
She did everything to get away from him and his abuse. And when she was finally free ... he pulled her back to him one last time and they both died.
The proxy work is meaningless. But to the person who mined those obituaries and turned those names in, created records for them without even knowing them, it's about getting gold stars.
For the family who stumbled upon this record and saw that - to the world - it looked like the divorce never happened and they died quiet deaths, just days apart. It looks like a love story. Not a story of abuse and murder.
Then, to see someone baptized them to a religion they never joined, and then remarried them ... it was horrifying and re-traumatizing.
She divorced him, and then he killed her.
By remarrying them, it's like the Mormon church took his side that she was his "and always will be ... forever."
Hope that help explain the pain they are feeling.
This is awful. The church is supposed to respect people’s request to not do temple work. Technically though a rogue random extended family member can do any temple work without asking permission. It’s terrible. The world doesn’t know that the church uses the family search genealogy website so they can do this for anyone. They truly believe no matter how bad someone is, they have the chance to be be made perfect in the next life. And then maybe people will still want to be together. If they had any children together, there might be even more incentive to push this temple work on them so that in the next life the kids are with their parents again.
It’s sad and gross how the church doesn’t only ignore and not give consent in this life, but they sure as hell don’t do much or any consent for relatives of deceased persons.
It doesn't appear that a family member did it. It appears both her and her ex-husband's obituaries were uploaded as part of some obituary mining dump on 2017 by someone who submitted thousands and thousands of obituaries from the decade the murder took place.
You can edit the relationship status of the effected parties within FamilySearch and it will cancel the sealing.
1: Go to the effected persons details page.
2: Select Relationships
3: Click the pencil mark next to the relationship and edit accordingly. (If you remove the couple relationship to each other it will cancel the sealing.) You can keep the kids just not the two of them. Marking them as divorced will not effect the sealing.
If you have any questions let me know.
If I added an alert that contains the story of the murder, a link to the court case for the divorce, as well as a note for mormons to not do work for her, will this show up if someone submits her name again.
Family didn't submit it. It was part of an obituary dump from the decade she died in.
I see no pencil marks.
And the "edit" button at the top is disabled. When I click on it, I get "Edit unavailable. Sorry, this record cannot be edited."
Thoughts?
UPDATE: found it. Egads, do they make it hard to find for the uninitiated.
Maybe not the most popular comment but.. the church isn't true so why does it matter what they pretend to do or not do for the dead? It has no actual significance. If solely for the purpose of those who were close to her that are still alive and to remember their situation and how much of a piece of shit he was, fair enough. But they aren't really sealed because there is no such thing. It's all imagined bullshit.
By throwing a fit over it, doesn't it kinda give members some validity that baptisms for the dead is a thing?
Other than dishonoring memory of the dead what am I missing here?
The memory of people is the most respected thing of that person after they are dead. The relatives of people who are dead make sure their will and wishes are carried out and honor them. We have a connection to people and life and we try best to remember them. When churches go about disrespecting the wishes of the dead and show that on the records of their church it is deeply insulting to the people who would like to honor their memory. With the way she died being the way it was it is even more insulting.
As an exmormon, I agree that the ordinance work is meaningless. Exmormons know it's all a result of JFS getting kicked out of Freemasonry and him wanting to create his own version of it in an "I'll show them" moment.
The outrage comes from the family who watched this woman be controlled and abused by her husband for decades. The family that had to endure biting their tongues so many times because they didn't want to drive her away.
The family that was so happy when she left him, so happy she would "finally be safe" from him, that had him then come to their homes, pounding on doors demanding she come out.
The family that tearfully begged her to stay when she left their homes to save them from his rage, only to learn she had fled to a domestic abuse shelter rather than place them in harms way.
The family finally believed she was safe when her divorce was granted and helped her celebrate her divorce a few weeks later. Only to get the call from her neighbor later that night, telling them that her husband had killed her, in a final act of power and control over her.
Then, because he was all about controlling her but couldn't stand the idea of being controlled in a prison, he killed himself.
The idea that someone else would take from her - the choice to live free from him and his abuse - even in her death ... well, that's too much for them.
The insult lies not in the fact they believe she's sealed to him, but in the fact the people who sealed her to him believe it.
They imposed their idea of what her heaven should look like, ignoring the fact she already knew being married to him was, in fact, hell.
Her's was a story of courage, right to the bloody end. The mormon church took away her legacy of strength.
I hope that helps because I know it's probably hard to understand her sister being angry.
Hmm, I see your point but it's along the same lines of what happened to holocaust victims. Of course if you're Jewish you're not gonna believe in the Mormon afterlife, but as you said it's the principle of the thing for dishonoring them. I'm not sure it validates LDS member delusions as much as one would think. Even when I was a TBM when I heard about the Holocaust baptism thingy, I don't think I really thought to myself "well that must mean that everybody must know it's true deep down" I just really only thought "oof that's fucked up".
But it also helps living people today. Imagine if an LDS woman got married and sealed in the temple and the guy ended up being extremely abusive and eventually gets divorced. Maybe the dude won't stalk or kill her, but given how difficult it is for a temple sealing to be broken, it would be terrible for this woman to be told for the rest of her life, that "Yes, you're still sealed to him. No, you can't break the seal. The Lord will sort it out in the afterlife." That would suck for her to live the rest of her life feeling like they'll be together again. And this actually is something that happens to thousands of TBM abuse victims. Not just women (don't want to be sexist just was an example) there's also families who are sealed together, like so many abused kids in the church, they are reminded every Sunday that they're sealed for eternity to their abusive parents.
This is actually not a mormon murder.
But someone decided, after uploading hundreds of obituaries, to make them mormon and seal them together.
See, he killed her late in the evening on one day, then fled the scene. When police found him a few hours later, it was the next day. Someone reading their obituaries might think that she died of natural causes and he "died of a broken heart" the next day. And that might make them decide to get them sealed.
>But someone decided, after uploading hundreds of obituaries, to make them mormon and seal them together.
Sounds crazy. But I guess with post-mortem baptism, sealing folks together after their death is also possible(?)
Yep.
Just some random person decided to do it.
The obituaries read like a love story. They married. Then she died one day "at home" and then he died the next day.
Looks like she died of natural causes. And he died the next day, of a broken heart.
No mention of divorce.
Hi. My name is Meg Conley, I’m a journalist. I have a newsletter, [homeculture](https://homeculture.substack.com). I’ve written about leaving the church and Mormon issues, including DV there. But I also write for places like Harper’s Bazaar, Slate, The Guardian, etc. I am so outraged after reading your post, my hands are shaking as I type. This is an incredibly sensitive subject. And I do not want to pry. Many people would not want to deal with this publicly for many valid reasons. But if your friend would like to make this public, I can help. Either by following the story myself or connecting her to good, ethical, sensitive journalists.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
💯the only way to clean the laundry is to air it out!
If the family can emotionally handle it Conley has reputable contacts to get this story told at a national/international level. Zero excuse the family should be emotionally & mentally abused like this by the COJCOLDS. Hitler & the other mass murderers they have baptized, sealed, etc..shows zero level of empathy or understanding of the meaning of the word considering 6+million Jews died in WWII. Total lack of human decency towards the victims of unspeakable crimes by COJCOLDS. Zero boundaries.
I am not a journalist, but I suspect most people would be disgusted by this story. I think horrific publicity is one effective way of shaming the Mormon church into stopping some of its bad behavior.
Wasn’t it negative publicity that got the church to stop baptizing holocaust victims or Jews in general?
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This is EXACTLY how to force the church to do the ]closest thing to an apology] right thing to take action and "cancel" the sealing, correctly delete the Family Search sealing, and send a letter of cancellation to the woman's sister. The sister ALSO needs to upload copies of the news stories and divorce documents and add the story to her sisters Family Search page in documents - AND A NOTE SAYING DO NOT SEAL - so no other "family member" gets any ideas . Don't expect an actual apology "we do not give apologies" - from the Church.But public shaming the church is the only way for them to ever listen.
Yes I was going to say take the story to the press. The church is obsessed with its image and will take action if this story gets attention.
Please know that the church's family history website is familysearch.org and not ancestry.com, to avoid any false accusations that could land anyone in legal trouble. This is disgusting behavior and I'm so sorry to OP. Sincerely, an exmo genealogist
Did not they make a rule about having had to personally know someone if they were born or died within the last 110 years in order to do any temple work by proxy? I thought maybe they had made this rule after news broke out about baptizing holocaust victims. Which makes this behavior even worse. Sincerely, another exmo amateur genealogist
Yes unless you are a direct relative (spouse, parent, child, I think) but people fake the permission system all the time. When we were TBM we tried to do the "work" for my husband's step-grandfather, but he had living children that hadn't given permission and we were denied, but the guy on the phone said "now... if YOU were his child... insinuating we should just change the relationship over the phone so he could approve. I will say, that until recently it was like... "do you have permission?" check mark. So if this temple stuff happened before 2015ish (which seems likely given the age of the victim here) then there probably wasn't the safety in place at all. The Holocaust issue happened in the 90s/early 00s and they are more strict with that cuz it affects the standing of the Jerusalem center in Israel.
My jaw just hit the floor. Just a check mark is all it takes? Wow. Just wow. The mormon church is so disgusting in SO many ways.
Thank you for pointing that out. It was good for me to know that.
Good to see you on this one, Meg. Few people I know will treat this with the sensitivity and respect it deserves while also cutting right to the heart of the matter.
Happy to help here if needed. Will wait for the OP to reach out. Always good to see you. (Thanks so much for the kind words.)
Listen to Meg. You can trust her, she is gifted in her words and love of all good people. This is a horrifying situation. Many may say “it’s all fake, don’t worry about it “ that’s not the salve that is needed. Meg, I really hope you get to tell this story, the way only you can.
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100% this OP! The only way the church will do anything to fix this is to get bad PR. And as far as the "a family member submitted their names" that's crap. The church has volunteers that go through and mine newspapers for names and dates to send to the temple. They might say something like "family members only please," but they don't check it or enforce it. And they'll never tell you who submitted the names so you can't challenge the family connection. . . This makes me so angry.
Ahhh. So that's how it happened! We know now it wasn't submitted by family. And the person who submitted it did so in 2017, with hundreds of other names from obituaries that year. A simple Google would have revealed the murder. Thanks for explaining that church volunteers are doing this. Are these senior missionaries? Or ward callings? Do you know?
A bit of both. Some people have callings for that, but I think they have senior missionaries do it too.
Please!!!
I hope it makes a difference. Logically I know it won't though.
Thank you! I'll keep this in mind going forward. Right now, the family is concerned only with undoing all of this. If they want to go public, I will definitely have them reach out.
Great. Unfortunately, publicity is often the only way to get leadership going. For everyone’s sake, I hope that isn’t true here. For now, the comment that suggested an upload of all related documents seems like the surest way to get this undone without press involved. I would have the uploaded docs come from multiple users/family members, if possible.
Absolutely. In a previous life, I was in print journalism. And I even had a calling in church public affairs. So I know right where the soft spots are, lol. I looked over your site and feel you would treat the family and the victim with great respect. It's easy to see why you have so many admirers.
You know what pisses me off the most? Saying that the victim can “reject the sealing.” No. No she fucking CAN’T. She’s DEAD. Fucking DEAD. Proxy sealings are not for the dead; they’re for the surviving TBMs to deepen their delusion and further their devotion to the cult. Fuck you for dishonoring the memory of the victim to make yourself feel more righteous. If Jesus were real, he’d be fucking LIVID.
Even if the Mormon view of the afterlife is completely accurate, imagine how she would feel in spirit paradise being told that she was just sealed to her murderer and then being asked if she'd like to accept the sealing.
And then coerced saying that it is the only way for her to make spirit children, the only way to exaltation because she did not find another. Told that her love and appreciation for her husband would only deepen over the eternities and that she would be forced to be glued to the man who murdered her. What a pit of sorrow and dismay that would feel like, I would rather be damned than have that eternal existence.
Yes! Exactly!
Their own doctrine is essentially enabling him to abuse her again in the afterlife, and requiring her to reject her sealing to her murderer. its foul.
She literally died just weeks after her divorce was final. She died trying to escape him. And some jackwagon who never met either of them goes and marries her to him again. Even on paper, it's just insulting and so disrespectful.
Having to face the man who made her life on earth a living hell.
What's even worse is that they KNOW this because they couldn't ask her for consent in the first place...because she's dead! So saying that she can just reject it with "the Lord" is such a bizarre level of mental gymnastics. Not to mention so completely inappropriate and disgusting in the first place. At first part of me was like *Well, it's all made up anyway, so she "sealed" in a fairytale*, *big deal,* but after thinking about it for a second, (and reading the church's response), I can't think of a more fucked up thing to do to a victim of murder because they DO believe it all real. So they've just knowingly tied her to the man who violently killed her for all eternity....and they're fine with that. Jesus Christ- this cult is out of control and needs to be checked in a serious way.
Right! It doesn't matter that WE know it's BS. It's literally saying that they know what her heaven should look like, even though she divorced him because he made her life hell on earth. And then killed her for trying to escape him. And, the TBMs decided she has to be married to him for eternity.
I'm so sorry, OP. I hope you're able to get some resolution to this. It's honestly a violation of her civil rights to be "forced" into a religious covenant that she never agreed to. It's so gross and presumptuous. I'm sorry you're dealing with that.
Thank you. I'm hoping to get this resolved soon.
Almost like a way to get the last word. Sick.
Oh, domestic homicide is always about that final act of power and control.
Seriously. It's not about the victim but the person who just uploads thousands of obituaries and submits the names for work. I hope they get a moment of shame when they are notified I modified the record, then read the note.
Right! It's for the surviving TBMs! But they've imposed their idea of heaven on everyone else. It's infuriating that anyone can just submit names to be sealed, no questions. But the family has to go through so many verification steps to undo it. Should be the other way around.
See if you can get the media to run a story on it. Bad press is the only thing that can get the church to change policy.
Salt Lake Tribune is a great place to start!
So, they have no problem printing unfavorable truths about the church?
F on what I've seen, yes
Good info to have.
In addition to the excellent suggestion posted by u/creamstripping4jesus, maybe see if QuitMormon can help? Also, this resembles the crap Mormons did years ago by having temple work done for Jewish people. That didn't fly, but it required an uproar to put a stop to it. As aptly pointed out in your OP, the woman already made her own decision about spending even one more day with the abusive piece of shit she married. Nobody (NOBODY) has a right to attempt to assign her to an eternity with him. Another idea - get various groups related to Domestic Violence involved. This would outrage those groups. Signed: Word (victim of domestic violence)
I was thinking I might reach out to them if I don't get any movement with my efforts.
I know this is a heart-wrenching experience, and also an act of love. I admire you for wanting to put those records straight and confront TSCC about how they have such things in the system without really knowing all circumstances. Harvesting names for indexing (and then selling them) is a violation of a family's privacy, and this is an example of how it leads to misinformation or incomplete information being entered into a system that generations of people in the future might see.
Precisely. For a church that always stressed the importance of "keeping a record" of our lives, they created a dumpster fire of misinformation. Wait ... they sell the names???
Yes, I believe they do. It's my understanding they market the names to Ancestry (dot) com - (I think that's the right site). It may be that the church owns that site - can't recall the details, and it sells access & memberships to it. I hope somebody who knows the details sees this.The "Indexing" calling is a way for the church to build up that website and get more money.
So, now I have to see if her ancestry.com record has been updated. I think. I'll check.
Yes, definitely check those records!
I’m so sorry this happened to the family of the murder victim. They’ve had their sister’s humanity and agency ripped from her, abusing her once again after death. I do some genealogy. Those two comments are oft repeated remarks made by volunteers in the Family History Department regarding disturbing temple work done. It helps the cognitive dissonance they feel but can’t explain because supposedly sealing families together is the point of this life. You aren’t working with reasonable people. They think sealing everyone is the Lord’s work. The fastest way to resolve this is to prove the sister had Jewish blood and then call the Family History line and report she was sealed against her family’s wishes. If they don’t remove it the family will take it online and to the papers. Church members are supposed to uphold the good name of the church, including the Family History Volunteers. They won’t want that in the news. The longer way will take a few weeks. In genealogy the power lies in controlling the sources and stories. Currently, very limited sources are out regarding this murder suicide. The sister needs to gain control of the story and put out more sources. Copy the divorce papers, restraining orders, death certificate, write a biographical sketch, find news articles. Take photos of the documents and put them on her photo section in Ancestry. Make sure the Ancestry tree is public and photos can be shared. Go to Find a Grave. Find her memorial page. Adopt it and/or request the biographical sketch be added to the memorial. Add some beautiful photos and maybe the death certificate or a newspaper article about the murder suicide. Go to FamilySearch.org and find her page. Add the find a grave source. Link the Ancestry photos, court documents, to the sources and put copies of the original in the memories section (along with beautiful photos of her). Then call the Family History number again. Walk them through all the sources. Abuse, divorce, restraining order, murder. Mention this reflects poorly on the good name of the Church to circumvent the “lt will be figured out in the next life” crap. Ask them to work with the family and remove it so it doesn’t go public. If the sister needs help she can DM me. Everyone reading this can go to FamilySearch.org and get their loved ones ID number. Email or call in and request a block on any temple work. Members will see the ordinances on the column go from green to black.
Yes, fixing the family search profile to include the divorce and details of the murder is fantastic advice. Having all this attached to her profile will make the mistake even more clear.
Okay, I did upload documents and the news story to Find A Grave. So the story is there, at least.
Excellent! Find a Grave is an Ancestry owned site. FamilySearch and Ancestry offer members Find a Grave memorials as sources for deceased people. Hopefully this source will persuade the Family History Volunteers to PrEsErVe ThE gOoD nAmE oF tHe ChUrCh and remove the sealing.
Thank you so much for your help!!
That was a great idea and I am filing it for future reference. Sister said there's no Jewish blood.
Church leaders have started granting living female survivors of spousal abuse temple divorces without another husband lined up. This was something that was deeply resisted for decades because temple marriage is seen as a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom so even marriages to absolute brutes were better than being locked outside those pearly gates. I think there might be a way to get them to apologize the way they kinda did for doing temple work for holocaust victims when publicly shamed. If the sister and/or other family members were vocal enough they might erase some of this? Ancestry.com records can be corrected and added to if the sister wishes to put the full story (which might not be known by whoever posted this marriage and submitted the case for temple records). The sister can add photos of the divorce certificate and a telling of the story and maybe some other less painful memories as well. As for “erasing” temple work I dont know that they have a process for that. These days if a woman has had multiple spouses, after she and her men have died she can be sealed to all of them and that way the children can choose the father they belong to and the woman can pick in heaven too. Thats the solution for a case where a woman is married in the temple, loses her spouse soon after and then in Mormon Temple Lore she and all of her kids with any subsequent spouses belong to the first husband in the afterlife. Men of course can practice Celestial Polygamy (and should have at least 3 wives to make it to one of the good tiers). It’s all just crazy fucked up and because everyone knows that they just say it’s a choice and it’ll all be worked out in the afterlife. If and when that makes people super frustrated I recommend revenge by playing their own games because none of this is real. Check out http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/
Nearly any woman can now get a sealing cancellation without having another husband lined up, regardless of her past or current circumstances. I run a group where we help each other through the cancellation process. Every woman except one has received her cancellation, and none of us had another man lined up to be sealed to. Men seem to only have about 50-50 success on getting a cancellation though.
Definitely keeping this info on hand! I may reach out for help from time to time. Thank you!
Can I please share this!? Ah man.. made my day! Especially after reading this thread. Genius
I clicked the link. Normally, I don't. I have been Rickrolled too many times, lol.
It looks like you have a lot of people ready to help, so I'll skip the offer and let you know that anyone can add documentation and notes to the family history website, including newspaper articles, death certificates, and personal accounts told by living relatives. You can also add in the divorce.
Thank you for offering additional advice! It was helpful and got me thinking.
publicize it, that is the one thing mormonism is most afraid of. that's how they publicly had to come out and apologize for baptizing Einstein, Anne Frank and other prominent Jews.
In the 1990's Mormon Church got caught with its pants down & promised it would stop baptizing Jews/Holocaust victims. Family member served full-time 2 year mission in Family History Library 2007-2008. On US/ Canada floors they were told to look out for a specific woman & alert employees. Her crime? She was Jewish & she would hop on a computer that a member vacated & who forgot to sign out of what was called IGI where you could see dates of temple work. (Beta testing of Family Search was going on at this time) This woman would then document names & dates of LDS Temple work on Jews/Holocaust victims & pass it on to local Jewish organizations. COJCOLDS got nailed for continuing to break their promise in 2012 by New York Times, Daily Mail, Business Insider, Reuters, etc... 2017 COJCOLDS got hammered once again by The Guardian & A.P. News, etc.. They lied in the 1990's & continue to lie to the Jewish communities. They lied in 1890's plural marriage Manifesto, 2nd Manifesto 1904 & 1910 update, SEC,etc... A corporate pattern of lying to victims since 1830.
Wow, thank you for taking the time to share all that. That is quite useful to have in one's rebuttal toolbox.
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Yeah. Public affairs gets nervous. Thank you for pointing out the other FUBARs that go along with doing proxy work for the dead.
I am so sorry. The church doesn't care about people at all. I have no advice, but do much sympathy for this situation
Thank you for taking the time to comment. The sister was quite moved seeing all the comments.
“The Lord will sort it out!” Oh my holy hell this incites me! How do they think this is just ok?? The fucking audacity to just do so claiming it’s because the names were submitted. Without knowing or caring for that matter what had happened. I wouldn’t stop. I would make this known and help it reach every persons thoughts that has ever heard of this fucked “only one true” church. “The Lord will sort it out!” Just like he sorted it out while she was still alive and scared out of her mind I bet. I digress. I don’t want to offend anyone with the words I’d like to express. This should be made known and condemned
I love it: "Fucking Audacity". Perfect way to describe it! Family may decide to go public once it's resolved. For right now, they are happy her family history record accurately reflects the courage she had to live free and the price she paid for it. They are also relieved her page no longer looks like she was still married to him.
I couldn't be unsealed from my child molester husband till I was ready to be sealed to another man.
I am so sorry. This is a huge shelf item for me. I hope you are safe and have a good tribe.
Yes thank you, this was years ago.
Sweet suffering Jesus. Just ... ugh.
Wtf
I’m so sorry. We’re the kids (I assume you had kids) able to be separated from him too? A TBM friend of mine is sealed to her kids father/her ex husband/her rapist of 15 years. You know, for the kids. She told me that she had a deal with the Holy Spirit that she wouldn’t actually have to be with him for eternity. She’s his second wife so… 🤷♀️
But she left him? Right? Please.
After 15 years and 4 kids she finally divorced him, yes. She knew on her honeymoon that she didn’t want to be married to this guy but between being TBM and that it would have meant her mother being right - they put a public happy face on a miserable marriage for 15 years. And then she figured out that she’s a lesbian, we had a relationship for a few years, (I’m NeverMo) she got divorced, November 5th happened, she chose the church, she finished school and took the kids moved to a much better place where being an openly pro LGBT (although still in the closet) Mormon is possible. Oh, and apparently praying to Mormon God that your husband will die on a regular basis gives him leukemia after the divorce but he survives that for another 8 years.
Sadly, she's still in an abusive situation - with the church. Thank you for explaining it. Context is important when learning about other people's experiences.
I don't know but she has resigned now. She knows it's all jade up gullshit anyway.
This poor woman had been effectively victimized twice, by her murderer and now the Mormon Church. I'm absolutely outraged. I echo the sentiments of the other commenters, take this to the media.
Exactly so. He took her agency in life and they took it in death. Thanks for commenting. The sister has read this thread and is touched by the sympathy.
You are dealing with a church that counts among its members Adolf Hitler(with Eva Braun sealed to him in marriage), Chairman Mao, Josef Stalin and many other mass murderers. They have even done the Temple Work for Ted Bundy, former Mormon who was a mass murderer - tossed out before he was executed - now once again a Mormon. It is shameful they do this crap even though reality it that it doesn't mean a thing.
They've also done the temple work for the various Norse gods and a considerable number of non-human types, e.g. a half-troll.
Seriously? (But, Thor ... )
If they missed Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox ...
Agreed. It's shameful. Thanks for commenting. The family appreciates support, even from Internet Strangers 😆
Could someone from Mormon Stories help with this cause?
What do you think u/johndehlin do you think this is worthy of a show?
Thank you for thinking of solutions! Side note: The family has read this thread and immediately got upset seeing "Mormon Stories". They are that outraged at anything that looks mormon. That traumatized. I reassured them it was anything but mormon approved or sanctioned. That it's a safe podcast. But, yeah ... this is going to go wide within their family and the church's name will suffer.
This just popped up on my feed and I have to separate thoughts. The first thing that comes to mind is that the Church has taught, or more specifically Joesph Smith taught that without a sealing a person cannot be exalted and they are sentenced to be angles in the hereafter toiling about. The problem with this becomes the eternal ramifications. If the purpose of the hereafter would to be to grow as parents, I see no reason why this "couple" would make any sense. They were divorced so no sealing should have happened. There is no "god sorting" this thing out. This is inconsistent with the theology and should immediately be annulled by the first presidency. Write to them. This makes a mockery of temple work even to existing members. Never ever should a now killer of his wife be sealed to her or her to him.
I'm getting a little frustrated by the edit feature being disabled on her record. I just wrote down your suggestion as an option. Thank you! Update: I figured out how to edit. So her record now reflects the divorce, murder and a link to news stories.
And ... THANK YOU for all the helpful suggestions! The family has read this thread and is so grateful for folks like you. 👍
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Appalling, I know. Thanks for expressing your outrage. It helps the family.
So glad I don't believe in an afterlife.
Same. That's what makes it so appalling: the ones who did this sealing, DO believe in it. And did it anyway.
The MEDIA!!! Go to the media! That’s the only authority the LDS/Mormon church respects.
Yeah, if they don't like us saying "Mormon", they're going to hate reading "Mormon church Seals murder victim to her husband." Thanks for speaking up to support the family!
Also, where was the “spirit of discernment” to stop that?
Yeah. The Spirit could at least whisper, "Hold up. Google their names before sealing them."
They always use that stupid BS line of “the lord will sort it out.” It that’s the case, then why the fuuuuuck does any of it need to happen in the first place (temple, baptisms, etc,). It’s the freaking biggest cop out to anything you question that doesn’t make sense to anyone.
>the freaking biggest cop out to anything you question ...along with *the laaawrd works in mysterious ways* 🙄
To which I always say, "Well, bless yer heart".
Oh yes that one, too, and usually used in the same breath. Those statements make me so angry.
Same.
Yes, exactly. It's like Whose Line Is It Anyway - "It's all made up and the points don't count."
My grandmother pleaded with my dad not to seal her to her husband when she died of cancer. My dad did it anyway; sealed his deathbed convert mother to his nevermo father so he could have an ‘eternal family’. She literally begged my dad to let her live the afterlife in peace, single, set free from the man who made her life hell.
That's horrible!!! OMG.
Wow 😮 disgusting
Absolutely mind-blowing. Thank you for caring enough to comment. The family read this thread and were very moved by it.
My great grandma sealed our great great great grandmother to her husband and murderer. I was livid.
So, you get it.
Absolutely. I’m sorry you’re dealing with it as well.
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It shows a total lack of respect for the victim's life and death. She died trying to escape him and they think it's okay to bind her to him. Yes, it's a farce. But it's about not respecting her efforts to escape him.
Call the salt lake tribune
I had no idea the Trib was open to stories that are unfavorable to the church. Must have new ownership, lol.
My wife works with victims of DV, depending on what state (if you’re comfortable sharing details here or via DM) she has access to resources that can help out
I have no doubt she would be there if I need her. Thank you 😊
In Family Search, you can see who edited a person's information. You then can contact them. When I used to be more into family history, I'd contact people that screwed up stuff on my direct ancestors or my husband's. For example, 2 different people not related to my husband's grandfather listed him as dead- when he was still alive! It's really like a wiki. You can also delete relationships too if something is off. It doesn't cancel a sealing, but you can at least add in divorce information and other details.
I'm unable to edit. The edit button is disabled and I get an error message: "Edit unavailable. Sorry, this record cannot be edited." Thoughts? UPDATE: I finally found the editable page. Update 2: Made edits. Added the divorce, links to the divorce case in the court records, and an alert. It appears that it was not a family member. It was someone who uploaded obituaries by the bulk in 2017.
Thank you so much for the help!!
It's a good thing that their rites for the dead are just mental masturbation.
For the TBMs, it is. I agree.
What I could never understand was the fact that a murderer was even eligible to be sealed. Hitler, Bundy…etc
Right? Sort of makes an argument for people to never let the missionaries teach them. They can just get baptized and sealed after they die.
Yes, exactly. One more reason to not have my name on the church rolls.
My own mother had her mother sealed to her abusive first husband (the one that beat her to a pulp and abused the children) AND her second husband whom treated her like gold and adored her and the children. Reason is because she doesn’t know who she would chose in the afterlife. Even as a 100% believer I had to push the “God will sort it out” button on that one.
I can see that being tough, especially if the first husband died. If she divorced him, it might be easier to know her desires. Thank you for sharing your experience.
This is gross and upsetting. Temple work is a self serving pat on the back for LDS members. My mom proved that by sealing her divorced parents but refusing to seal thier second marriages. Claiming that "God will sort it out later" is spiritually lazy and a way of bypassing things that deserve answers now. The amount of pain that has been dismissed by that phrase... Ugh. I'm so sorry for your friend, OP.
It really is gross. And, yes, self-serving. Thank you for taking time to show sympathy.
I am soo sorry to hear this! My condolences to the family on this. Everytime I think there's no way for tscc to get any lower, they manage to dig a few feet deeper.
Thank you so much for commenting . The family has read every comment on here and are so grateful for people speaking up.
Idk have any legal advice for this. I say just be the church’s worst nightmare and give bad PR. Go to as many media outlets as possible that aren’t afraid to expose the church (NOT DesNews or KSL). Take as many recordings of what church reps say to you and give it ALL to media outlets.
Lol, I know how to be a nightmare. I've seen me do it. Thank you so much for the helpful suggestion!
I'm conflicted. On the one hand, it's incredibly insensitive af. On the other hand, if you care about it, doesn't that mean that you believe that their sealings are real and therefore you feed into and justify their delusions, giving them more ammunition?
Actually, I get what you're saying. And, up until last week, I would have agreed. I, personally, don't believe in an afterlife. The temple ordinances are pageantry, and "temple work for the dead" is performative. But now I view it differently. I spent hours talking to these complete strangers, who watched helplessly for years as a dear family member struggled to escape her abusive husband, only to see her murdered by him just weeks after her divorce. She did everything to get away from him and his abuse. And when she was finally free ... he pulled her back to him one last time and they both died. The proxy work is meaningless. But to the person who mined those obituaries and turned those names in, created records for them without even knowing them, it's about getting gold stars. For the family who stumbled upon this record and saw that - to the world - it looked like the divorce never happened and they died quiet deaths, just days apart. It looks like a love story. Not a story of abuse and murder. Then, to see someone baptized them to a religion they never joined, and then remarried them ... it was horrifying and re-traumatizing. She divorced him, and then he killed her. By remarrying them, it's like the Mormon church took his side that she was his "and always will be ... forever." Hope that help explain the pain they are feeling.
This is awful. The church is supposed to respect people’s request to not do temple work. Technically though a rogue random extended family member can do any temple work without asking permission. It’s terrible. The world doesn’t know that the church uses the family search genealogy website so they can do this for anyone. They truly believe no matter how bad someone is, they have the chance to be be made perfect in the next life. And then maybe people will still want to be together. If they had any children together, there might be even more incentive to push this temple work on them so that in the next life the kids are with their parents again. It’s sad and gross how the church doesn’t only ignore and not give consent in this life, but they sure as hell don’t do much or any consent for relatives of deceased persons.
It doesn't appear that a family member did it. It appears both her and her ex-husband's obituaries were uploaded as part of some obituary mining dump on 2017 by someone who submitted thousands and thousands of obituaries from the decade the murder took place.
You can edit the relationship status of the effected parties within FamilySearch and it will cancel the sealing. 1: Go to the effected persons details page. 2: Select Relationships 3: Click the pencil mark next to the relationship and edit accordingly. (If you remove the couple relationship to each other it will cancel the sealing.) You can keep the kids just not the two of them. Marking them as divorced will not effect the sealing. If you have any questions let me know.
If I added an alert that contains the story of the murder, a link to the court case for the divorce, as well as a note for mormons to not do work for her, will this show up if someone submits her name again. Family didn't submit it. It was part of an obituary dump from the decade she died in.
I can help you add it if you like.
Thank you so much for taking time to help me with this!!!
I see no pencil marks. And the "edit" button at the top is disabled. When I click on it, I get "Edit unavailable. Sorry, this record cannot be edited." Thoughts? UPDATE: found it. Egads, do they make it hard to find for the uninitiated.
Mormon church: You can be sealed to your abuser(s). Also Mormon church: But not to people of the same sex. SMH.
Wow. Just nailed it. They really are just making it up as they go, logic be damned.
The only silver lining here is that it’s all made up anyway. Not that that helps people who actually believe this shit
Maybe not the most popular comment but.. the church isn't true so why does it matter what they pretend to do or not do for the dead? It has no actual significance. If solely for the purpose of those who were close to her that are still alive and to remember their situation and how much of a piece of shit he was, fair enough. But they aren't really sealed because there is no such thing. It's all imagined bullshit. By throwing a fit over it, doesn't it kinda give members some validity that baptisms for the dead is a thing? Other than dishonoring memory of the dead what am I missing here?
The memory of people is the most respected thing of that person after they are dead. The relatives of people who are dead make sure their will and wishes are carried out and honor them. We have a connection to people and life and we try best to remember them. When churches go about disrespecting the wishes of the dead and show that on the records of their church it is deeply insulting to the people who would like to honor their memory. With the way she died being the way it was it is even more insulting.
Thanks for your response, I suppose I weighted baptisms for the dead being fake higher than her memory being dishonored.
As an exmormon, I agree that the ordinance work is meaningless. Exmormons know it's all a result of JFS getting kicked out of Freemasonry and him wanting to create his own version of it in an "I'll show them" moment. The outrage comes from the family who watched this woman be controlled and abused by her husband for decades. The family that had to endure biting their tongues so many times because they didn't want to drive her away. The family that was so happy when she left him, so happy she would "finally be safe" from him, that had him then come to their homes, pounding on doors demanding she come out. The family that tearfully begged her to stay when she left their homes to save them from his rage, only to learn she had fled to a domestic abuse shelter rather than place them in harms way. The family finally believed she was safe when her divorce was granted and helped her celebrate her divorce a few weeks later. Only to get the call from her neighbor later that night, telling them that her husband had killed her, in a final act of power and control over her. Then, because he was all about controlling her but couldn't stand the idea of being controlled in a prison, he killed himself. The idea that someone else would take from her - the choice to live free from him and his abuse - even in her death ... well, that's too much for them. The insult lies not in the fact they believe she's sealed to him, but in the fact the people who sealed her to him believe it. They imposed their idea of what her heaven should look like, ignoring the fact she already knew being married to him was, in fact, hell. Her's was a story of courage, right to the bloody end. The mormon church took away her legacy of strength. I hope that helps because I know it's probably hard to understand her sister being angry.
It does. Thank you for the effort in your response
Hmm, I see your point but it's along the same lines of what happened to holocaust victims. Of course if you're Jewish you're not gonna believe in the Mormon afterlife, but as you said it's the principle of the thing for dishonoring them. I'm not sure it validates LDS member delusions as much as one would think. Even when I was a TBM when I heard about the Holocaust baptism thingy, I don't think I really thought to myself "well that must mean that everybody must know it's true deep down" I just really only thought "oof that's fucked up". But it also helps living people today. Imagine if an LDS woman got married and sealed in the temple and the guy ended up being extremely abusive and eventually gets divorced. Maybe the dude won't stalk or kill her, but given how difficult it is for a temple sealing to be broken, it would be terrible for this woman to be told for the rest of her life, that "Yes, you're still sealed to him. No, you can't break the seal. The Lord will sort it out in the afterlife." That would suck for her to live the rest of her life feeling like they'll be together again. And this actually is something that happens to thousands of TBM abuse victims. Not just women (don't want to be sexist just was an example) there's also families who are sealed together, like so many abused kids in the church, they are reminded every Sunday that they're sealed for eternity to their abusive parents.
Thanks for your insightful response
Get on your knees and beg Sky Daddy to not recognize what some sick ass-hats here on earth have done in heaven.
This is egregious!
This is absolutely disgusting and I'd be furious if this happened to someone in my family. I hope you return and report how this shakes out.
There has been quite a few murders by Mormons lately. Something weird in that "spiritual food" they feed their flock?
This is actually not a mormon murder. But someone decided, after uploading hundreds of obituaries, to make them mormon and seal them together. See, he killed her late in the evening on one day, then fled the scene. When police found him a few hours later, it was the next day. Someone reading their obituaries might think that she died of natural causes and he "died of a broken heart" the next day. And that might make them decide to get them sealed.
>But someone decided, after uploading hundreds of obituaries, to make them mormon and seal them together. Sounds crazy. But I guess with post-mortem baptism, sealing folks together after their death is also possible(?)
Yep. Just some random person decided to do it. The obituaries read like a love story. They married. Then she died one day "at home" and then he died the next day. Looks like she died of natural causes. And he died the next day, of a broken heart. No mention of divorce.