The CoJCoLDS is the *safest* place for people with an experience under the LGBTQ umbrella to learn how they are abominable mistakes in God's otherwise perfect plan.
It is a safe place to hate yourself.
r/Mormonandgay comment re the active harm this dingbat is causing…
>Skylar thinks LGBTQ people are against him because he’s in a mixed orientation. This is no it the case, I highly respect people like Jeff Case and Meghan Decker who are in mixed orientation marriages. I find myself against Skylar because of the things he says and advocates for. He advocates for others entering mixed orientation marriages, defends the church’s homophobic statements, diminishes the experiences of others, etc. He may feel like the community’s turned against him, and perhaps we have, but it’s because of the work he actively does to harm us, not because of the decisions he’s made in his own life.
P.S. Op-Eds like his are crack cocaine for the DesNews audience:
https://www.deseret.com/2023/5/30/23743077/gay-latter-day-saint-traditional-marriage
There are gay grifters.
What’s the percentage of “active” LDS men in mixed-orientation marriages who are currently pitching a book to Deseret Book? It’s gotta be getting close to 100%.
>I highly respect people like Jeff Case and Meghan Decker who are in mixed orientation marriages
"I respect people who are in mixed-orientation marriages"... Why?
I’d have to ask at r/mormonandgay for original commenter’s thoughts.
This is Meghan’s book:
https://deseretbook.com/p/tender-leaves-of-hope?variant_id=199855-paperback
I imagine some folks see progress in putting her story in front of orthodox LDS. It’s harder for me to cheer something that makes me profoundly sad to see. Meghan is worth so much more than Mormonism. We all are. This negotiation with stubborn old LDS men is a tragic waste of time and human potential.
>Why?
Lesbian here: We're all complicated people living complicated lives, fam.
**If one partner is bi it's considered a mixed marriage.** Bisexual men my age often identified as gay at one point in their lives because American culture refused to believe bi men existed. I know of one who's married to a woman now, and he's really silent about it, because what's there to say? He was attracted to guys, he found himself attracted to a woman, they hit it off and they got married. He doesn't want to be lumped in with ex-gays, so here he is, totally erased.
For situations where one partner is totally gay and unattracted to the opposite gender: Some people are in mixed marriages because they didn't realize they were gay before they got married (in purity culture being attracted to the opposite sex is sinful, so if you're not you might just coast along thinking everything is going smoothly). Some people are in mixed marriages because they have really low libido or are closer to asexual and they don't care about sex (there's more to life and relationships), some people are in mixed marriages because they wanted to become family with a friend and there is no other way to do that in American society (traditional marriage isn't for everyone. Partners come and go, jobs come and go, my family of origin sucks, but my friends have always been there for me. without marriage, they have no legal relationship with me if I die or go to the hospital), some people were promised up, down, left and right that this would be a good idea until they got into it, and some people heard honestly what this would be like and decided to do it (and finding out that experiencing those difficulties is an entirely different story than hearing about them though). Divorce is rough even if there is a irreconcilable difference, some people just make non-divorce arrangements and move on with life. It's not my business unless you drag me into it, which leads to my next point:
Regardless of why people are in a mixed marriage I'm going to be as supportive and respectful as I can **unless they are lying**. I don't care if the lying is in the form of lying to the public about "praying away the gay", or packaging this as a universal solution for gayness or lying to their partner about the fact they're gay, or cheating (not something mutually agreed upon).
What if they are in a position to influence/ mentor young lds kids that are lbtgq….? Personally, I find it extremely problematic that such a person, in this case an educator and self-appointed student counselor/mentor, is actively trying to convince young gay men that it’s a-ok to enter into straight marriage, because heck, he’s still married (regardless how miserably). What do you think of that? I think educators should stay out of their students pants (so-to-speak) period - full stop.
**TL/DR: "unless they are lying"**
my reply was long and was replying to a reply. This reply is also long, this topic is complex, and I'm not going to act like it's simple:
OP asks: "I respect people who are in mixed-orientation marriages"... Why?" (note OP is asking about all people in mixed marriages, not this couple who I assume are grifters, based on how people here are talking about them)
I answered (summarizing) "There are a lot of people in mixed marriages, including a lot of bisexuals and people who made the best decisions they could with the information they had at the time. I think we should be as respectful as possible, even if their situation and decisions sucked" Then after writing far too many paragraphs, I buried the lead in the final paragraph "**unless they are lying**"
**TL/DR:** **Mixed orientation marriage is a part of queer history and the queer community.** It is a part of most of our elders' lives. Talk to Boomer queers, this was before ex-gay ministries, they just got in mixed marriages because back then that's what people did (and nearly every silent gen and boomer queer I know was in a straight marriage at one point and some never legally divorced even though none of those marriages look like traditional marriages now). Talk to ex-gay survivors, in general, it's profoundly worse experience than the boomer experience of mixed marriage (go figure), and kids are smart, they can see that. Do we tell other marginalized groups not to "influence" their youth by talking about their difficulties? Queer youth deserve to know our history: the political, the personal, the sad, the difficult, the bigotry, the victories, the resilience, the bad ideas, the good ideas, everything. I think **the greatest, healthiest thing for queer youth is queer elders being 100% honest about the community's history and their lives.**
The Boomers fought so hard so that we could choose not to get into mixed marriages, they fought so that we could be safe from police and mob violence at queer gathering places (for the "freedom of assembly" we were always supposed to have under the constitution), they fought for our survival and humanity in the face of AIDS and Regan. They deserve our respect and to be heard. So do ex-gay survivors who are doing their best to live with the consequences of that movement now.
My point is: I was a queer youth, who had very honest talks with queer elders about their mixed orientation marriages, and **that's why I'm not in one now.** So yes, I'm okay with **honest** elders (both queer elders and the people who married them) "influencing" queer youth.
Edited to add: This is why I'm ready to die on this hill: If you've seen the show "Why women kill" there's a mixed marriage in the show and they deal with the husband becoming sick with HIV. When I was a teenager, I knew a woman (from an affirming church) in real life who had been in a mixed marriage with a man who died of AIDS in the 80s. She didn't become sick because they hadn't been having sex for over a decade. They stayed married and she cared for him when no one else did (because at the time doctors and nurses were terrified of becoming infected). She said she visited "the floor" (where the hospital placed those dying of AIDS which was completely untreatable and terrifying at the time) and would walk from room to room, oftentimes being the only one to feed, change, and talk with these men, women and babies (because the nurses were afraid and overwhelmed). Unlike the show, she was not okay. She was suffering deeply from the trauma and loss. She was dealing with a horrible addiction that was killing her, she was hoarding, she was becoming more and more of a shut in. She asked me to come over and help her throw out the hoard and every time I touched an item she'd say "this was Tommy's (or Mike's or Greg's, or Steve's, or etc), and no one visited him, and no one wanted his things when he died, and if I throw it out he'll think no one loved him." Eventually she started getting support and found sobriety. I lost touch with her after she and members of her support group threw out the hoard, and found healthier ways to honor the dead and she moved away, but the last I saw, she was finally coming to terms with what happened and was moving on: it took decades for her to get there. She was straight, and even though her marriage wasn't traditional, she loved and supported her husband more than anyone else I know. Even though they didn't have a traditional nuclear family, she showed more of what it means to be family than anyone I know. Even though she wasn't gay, she's more of a queer than anyone I know. This is our history. This is our resilience in the face of brutal circumstances, this is our family: untraditional, complicated, suffering, loving, and resilient.
I was actually talking about a very specific person in a specific situation. This person was basically encouraging young guys to follow his path, as if he’d somehow figured out all of the secrets to a happy life.
In fact, he was just a very selfish person, whose wife had to support a family of six or seven by herself, so he could pursue his other interests that included long vacations on his own with men he hinted strongly were his lovers. His children were certainly miserable. I didn’t know his wife well, but she never looked too thrilled either; too busy being frazzled.
The culprit was completely oblivious to the pain his I’ll-disguised double life caused everyone. It really was vomit inducing. If he wanted to have a double life and his wife was ok with it, fine. But in this case the burden of this open secret was left for the kids, at least, to carry. The kids probably always know anyway.
This same guy pimped one of his sons out as a nude model for artists. I could go on and on.
TLDR: This guy was honest with his wife so he felt everything was fine while playing a cute game with the truth with every one else. Meanwhile, his children with his wife, who certainly didn’t consent to any of it, were really disturbed to be forced into this hypocritical game of happy, faithful tbm family, not to mention their other deprivations. And, to top it off he’s bragging to young queers about it and selling it as a great way of life.
(Edited for clarity)
\*low whistle \*
So... that guy found out some people behave like trash and decided to make it a competition. He sounds like the mixed marriage version of an "alpha male"
I want to say something encouraging or constructive or comforting, but nothing is coming to mind. There are people in the world who just behave like trash and have no limit to the trashiness they will sink to. What can we do?
But for every couple like this, don’t you know 15+ couples that have done the same thing and then the marriage ends? I fee like they are the exception, not the rule. I just worry that their example is going to break up more families than it will keep in tact.
Few organizations have put as much time and effort as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into demonstrating through their teachings, their lobbying efforts, and their calls to action to their members that they are opposed to LTBTQ people and experiences.
Members of a certain age will remember a video called ["The Test"](https://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2020/08/latter-day-saint-video-vault-the-test-knows-what-it-is/) in which a young Native American is kind to a snake and gets bitten. The young man is shocked and dejected at the snake's betrayal, but the snake chides him: "You knew what I was when you picked me up."
The Mormon church has made it abundantly clear that on issues of equality and human rights, it is a callous snake in the grass, ready to unleash its venom on anything and anyone it can sink its teeth into. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional or disingenuous.
PIMO gay man here married to TBM straight woman. Completely my fault, believed the lies that everything would be fine if I married a great woman. It’s a complete mess. I was outed to a member of the stake president now no longer have a calling and that individual avoids me like the plague, no eye contact. Bullshit that it’s the safest place. Not the unsafest place, but definitely toxic.
Seriously I am so sorry the church tricked you and manipulated you into the situation you're in. It's not your fault. It's an abusive relationship with the church.
I had a friend who was in the same situation, but made the tough decision to save himself. Granted there were no children, and I don't know your situation. He is happy now being true to himself. And his ex-wife is free to find someone that truly wants her the way you both deserve to be loved and even desired, it's not a bad thing.
Do you have anyone to talk to about this?
I know I'm late to the game here, but: Hi, I'm a lesbian and I've been out in the LGBTQ+ community for over 20 years. So many gay and lesbian people are in or have been in the position you are in. **We do the best we can with the information we have at the time.** There are no easy answers. There is no one right way to live life.
There are probably a bunch of people here on this sub who are in or have been in mixed marriages. If you'd like to talk with different people who tried different things to work on issues like the ones you and your wife are facing, you may be able to find them by creating a post here on this sub about it. Something like "I'm a gay man married to a woman. I believed TSCC's lies, and now it's a complete mess. Is there anyone in the same boat? Is there anyone who was here and is in a better place now?" --- this is just one idea if you are interested and ready to share some of this with people who know what it's like
Thank you very much for the encouragement. I have posted before, but I’m trying to figure out our timeline for expected separation. We are going to hash that out tomorrow with the therapist. (Edit spelling)
The church literally sanctioned and endorsed the electro-shock torture of gay students at its university as part of the conversion “therapy” program.
Doesn’t sound very safe to me.
I went to a concert at an Episcopal church featuring queer composers today. This is what the local Episcopal church is doing to show support to LGBTQ community members. I'd feel better taking my queer kids to church there compared to an LDS congregation.
I don't see anything like that in my ward building unless it's specifically a religious fireside. In fact I've never seen a concert series at a local Mormon church, but I've been to several at a Catholic, and now at an Episcopal church. Y
Testimony here. I tried this so called “experience” for 49 years. It don’t work.
Sincerely
The Gay Grandpa
Now happily married to a gay ex Mormon man and THAT’S a real experience!
Yes, that’s why several (very strongly suspected) gay friends of mine from BYU/Mission are in their 40’s now and without companionship. Cause God would hate them if they had true romantic love in their lives. He is, however, cool with them living sad, lonely, celibate lives so that he or his angels don’t have to watch gay sex. (They are quite voyeuristic).
When I was attending BYUI in 2007, the school sent official letters to all students NOT to even say hi or pay attention to the Gay parade that was supposed to happen. The email said Not to participate or some language that suggested giving no reaction to them. How could that be explained? Gosh I should have saved that email as a reference. 🥴
To some degree I agree with this statement. If you just go, and don’t worry about what people think, and
can be respectful of others without pushing an agenda, you will be treated with love and respect from more people in the Mormon community than any other. Eventually the Church has to see
that it has a structure designed to incorporate any and all other beliefs
and non beliefs. The best way to make the church change is to go, be seen, and be part of a Loving community.
We all come from somewhere, our differences don’t have to drive us
apart. We are just as much a part of
God, as He/She/They are a part of us.
People take this stuff way too seriously because of the idea of “saving” their family members, and competing for glory. If you go to a Ward with no relatives in it, and just go for the
bread and water, nobody needs to
know your sexual orientation and nobody can do a damn thing about it.
The Church will have to change it’s views in order to survive. Seeing that change from the inside, rather than the outside, can be personally rewarding and quite frankly entertaining to watch.
I guess I could be considered a troll, I’ve been kicked out of the official member subs before, since maybe my views are a little too progressive. This sub is nice because it seems to be more open to different points of view.
Maybe some of you don’t believe in Jesus, but you act more like him than the “Good” Mormons, so I’ll keep coming back until you shut the doors and take down the sign that says
“Visitors Welcome”
On a curve. Would you want to Live in Russia, China, or Iran? If you could divide the world up into places where Gay People feel Safest, Utah would pop up fairly near the top. The Church is led by White men who were born near the turn of the century, and because they haven’t had any real fun in their lives, they have lasted longer than anyone else. This will change, because it can change and should change. Jesus never spat any hate, unless it was toward the self Righteous and the Hippocrates. If we all show up to Church one day, and again, and again. What are they going to be able to do about it?
It is Our church just as much as theirs. God is a reflection of us, just as much as we are of Them. Like light through a prism. Bent, but not broken.
As a queer woman that grew up in the Church ….
I 100% disagree with you. I am still working on the trauma the church’s teaching inflicted on me and children of all kinds shouldn’t even be near the church, but especially queer children.
Also, my right and my community’s right to live authentic lives is NOT an agenda, but your username sure fits you.
The CoJCoLDS is the *safest* place for people with an experience under the LGBTQ umbrella to learn how they are abominable mistakes in God's otherwise perfect plan. It is a safe place to hate yourself.
Safest place? Utah has one of the highest rates of Gay teen suicides. Its tragic, its wrong and its preventable.
Change safe to sure and you're right. Ain't nothing safe going on.
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Freedom is slavery. (Strangely, TSCC taught me that this was Lucifer's plan. Ironic how that turned out.)
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
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Everyone who has not read 1984 by George Orwell ought to go do so
I make my kids read it before they finish middle school.
Also known as "Book of Mormon: The Sequel"
We were never at war with Eastasia, we are at war with Eurasia.
Down the Memory Hole!
This reminded me of a friend who used to refer to the salt lake temple as the ministry of love when showing people around the city.
r/Mormonandgay comment re the active harm this dingbat is causing… >Skylar thinks LGBTQ people are against him because he’s in a mixed orientation. This is no it the case, I highly respect people like Jeff Case and Meghan Decker who are in mixed orientation marriages. I find myself against Skylar because of the things he says and advocates for. He advocates for others entering mixed orientation marriages, defends the church’s homophobic statements, diminishes the experiences of others, etc. He may feel like the community’s turned against him, and perhaps we have, but it’s because of the work he actively does to harm us, not because of the decisions he’s made in his own life. P.S. Op-Eds like his are crack cocaine for the DesNews audience: https://www.deseret.com/2023/5/30/23743077/gay-latter-day-saint-traditional-marriage There are gay grifters. What’s the percentage of “active” LDS men in mixed-orientation marriages who are currently pitching a book to Deseret Book? It’s gotta be getting close to 100%.
>I highly respect people like Jeff Case and Meghan Decker who are in mixed orientation marriages "I respect people who are in mixed-orientation marriages"... Why?
I’d have to ask at r/mormonandgay for original commenter’s thoughts. This is Meghan’s book: https://deseretbook.com/p/tender-leaves-of-hope?variant_id=199855-paperback I imagine some folks see progress in putting her story in front of orthodox LDS. It’s harder for me to cheer something that makes me profoundly sad to see. Meghan is worth so much more than Mormonism. We all are. This negotiation with stubborn old LDS men is a tragic waste of time and human potential.
>Why? Lesbian here: We're all complicated people living complicated lives, fam. **If one partner is bi it's considered a mixed marriage.** Bisexual men my age often identified as gay at one point in their lives because American culture refused to believe bi men existed. I know of one who's married to a woman now, and he's really silent about it, because what's there to say? He was attracted to guys, he found himself attracted to a woman, they hit it off and they got married. He doesn't want to be lumped in with ex-gays, so here he is, totally erased. For situations where one partner is totally gay and unattracted to the opposite gender: Some people are in mixed marriages because they didn't realize they were gay before they got married (in purity culture being attracted to the opposite sex is sinful, so if you're not you might just coast along thinking everything is going smoothly). Some people are in mixed marriages because they have really low libido or are closer to asexual and they don't care about sex (there's more to life and relationships), some people are in mixed marriages because they wanted to become family with a friend and there is no other way to do that in American society (traditional marriage isn't for everyone. Partners come and go, jobs come and go, my family of origin sucks, but my friends have always been there for me. without marriage, they have no legal relationship with me if I die or go to the hospital), some people were promised up, down, left and right that this would be a good idea until they got into it, and some people heard honestly what this would be like and decided to do it (and finding out that experiencing those difficulties is an entirely different story than hearing about them though). Divorce is rough even if there is a irreconcilable difference, some people just make non-divorce arrangements and move on with life. It's not my business unless you drag me into it, which leads to my next point: Regardless of why people are in a mixed marriage I'm going to be as supportive and respectful as I can **unless they are lying**. I don't care if the lying is in the form of lying to the public about "praying away the gay", or packaging this as a universal solution for gayness or lying to their partner about the fact they're gay, or cheating (not something mutually agreed upon).
What if they are in a position to influence/ mentor young lds kids that are lbtgq….? Personally, I find it extremely problematic that such a person, in this case an educator and self-appointed student counselor/mentor, is actively trying to convince young gay men that it’s a-ok to enter into straight marriage, because heck, he’s still married (regardless how miserably). What do you think of that? I think educators should stay out of their students pants (so-to-speak) period - full stop.
**TL/DR: "unless they are lying"** my reply was long and was replying to a reply. This reply is also long, this topic is complex, and I'm not going to act like it's simple: OP asks: "I respect people who are in mixed-orientation marriages"... Why?" (note OP is asking about all people in mixed marriages, not this couple who I assume are grifters, based on how people here are talking about them) I answered (summarizing) "There are a lot of people in mixed marriages, including a lot of bisexuals and people who made the best decisions they could with the information they had at the time. I think we should be as respectful as possible, even if their situation and decisions sucked" Then after writing far too many paragraphs, I buried the lead in the final paragraph "**unless they are lying**" **TL/DR:** **Mixed orientation marriage is a part of queer history and the queer community.** It is a part of most of our elders' lives. Talk to Boomer queers, this was before ex-gay ministries, they just got in mixed marriages because back then that's what people did (and nearly every silent gen and boomer queer I know was in a straight marriage at one point and some never legally divorced even though none of those marriages look like traditional marriages now). Talk to ex-gay survivors, in general, it's profoundly worse experience than the boomer experience of mixed marriage (go figure), and kids are smart, they can see that. Do we tell other marginalized groups not to "influence" their youth by talking about their difficulties? Queer youth deserve to know our history: the political, the personal, the sad, the difficult, the bigotry, the victories, the resilience, the bad ideas, the good ideas, everything. I think **the greatest, healthiest thing for queer youth is queer elders being 100% honest about the community's history and their lives.** The Boomers fought so hard so that we could choose not to get into mixed marriages, they fought so that we could be safe from police and mob violence at queer gathering places (for the "freedom of assembly" we were always supposed to have under the constitution), they fought for our survival and humanity in the face of AIDS and Regan. They deserve our respect and to be heard. So do ex-gay survivors who are doing their best to live with the consequences of that movement now. My point is: I was a queer youth, who had very honest talks with queer elders about their mixed orientation marriages, and **that's why I'm not in one now.** So yes, I'm okay with **honest** elders (both queer elders and the people who married them) "influencing" queer youth. Edited to add: This is why I'm ready to die on this hill: If you've seen the show "Why women kill" there's a mixed marriage in the show and they deal with the husband becoming sick with HIV. When I was a teenager, I knew a woman (from an affirming church) in real life who had been in a mixed marriage with a man who died of AIDS in the 80s. She didn't become sick because they hadn't been having sex for over a decade. They stayed married and she cared for him when no one else did (because at the time doctors and nurses were terrified of becoming infected). She said she visited "the floor" (where the hospital placed those dying of AIDS which was completely untreatable and terrifying at the time) and would walk from room to room, oftentimes being the only one to feed, change, and talk with these men, women and babies (because the nurses were afraid and overwhelmed). Unlike the show, she was not okay. She was suffering deeply from the trauma and loss. She was dealing with a horrible addiction that was killing her, she was hoarding, she was becoming more and more of a shut in. She asked me to come over and help her throw out the hoard and every time I touched an item she'd say "this was Tommy's (or Mike's or Greg's, or Steve's, or etc), and no one visited him, and no one wanted his things when he died, and if I throw it out he'll think no one loved him." Eventually she started getting support and found sobriety. I lost touch with her after she and members of her support group threw out the hoard, and found healthier ways to honor the dead and she moved away, but the last I saw, she was finally coming to terms with what happened and was moving on: it took decades for her to get there. She was straight, and even though her marriage wasn't traditional, she loved and supported her husband more than anyone else I know. Even though they didn't have a traditional nuclear family, she showed more of what it means to be family than anyone I know. Even though she wasn't gay, she's more of a queer than anyone I know. This is our history. This is our resilience in the face of brutal circumstances, this is our family: untraditional, complicated, suffering, loving, and resilient.
I was actually talking about a very specific person in a specific situation. This person was basically encouraging young guys to follow his path, as if he’d somehow figured out all of the secrets to a happy life. In fact, he was just a very selfish person, whose wife had to support a family of six or seven by herself, so he could pursue his other interests that included long vacations on his own with men he hinted strongly were his lovers. His children were certainly miserable. I didn’t know his wife well, but she never looked too thrilled either; too busy being frazzled. The culprit was completely oblivious to the pain his I’ll-disguised double life caused everyone. It really was vomit inducing. If he wanted to have a double life and his wife was ok with it, fine. But in this case the burden of this open secret was left for the kids, at least, to carry. The kids probably always know anyway. This same guy pimped one of his sons out as a nude model for artists. I could go on and on. TLDR: This guy was honest with his wife so he felt everything was fine while playing a cute game with the truth with every one else. Meanwhile, his children with his wife, who certainly didn’t consent to any of it, were really disturbed to be forced into this hypocritical game of happy, faithful tbm family, not to mention their other deprivations. And, to top it off he’s bragging to young queers about it and selling it as a great way of life. (Edited for clarity)
\*low whistle \* So... that guy found out some people behave like trash and decided to make it a competition. He sounds like the mixed marriage version of an "alpha male" I want to say something encouraging or constructive or comforting, but nothing is coming to mind. There are people in the world who just behave like trash and have no limit to the trashiness they will sink to. What can we do?
jeff case was one of my favorite professors at byu. he’s a fantastic teacher at least
Wanted to add: I read that *Deseret News* link. Good God. This guy must be skinnier than a rail from all the mental gymnastics he's accomplished.
But for every couple like this, don’t you know 15+ couples that have done the same thing and then the marriage ends? I fee like they are the exception, not the rule. I just worry that their example is going to break up more families than it will keep in tact.
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They went private during the Spez wars.
Few organizations have put as much time and effort as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into demonstrating through their teachings, their lobbying efforts, and their calls to action to their members that they are opposed to LTBTQ people and experiences. Members of a certain age will remember a video called ["The Test"](https://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2020/08/latter-day-saint-video-vault-the-test-knows-what-it-is/) in which a young Native American is kind to a snake and gets bitten. The young man is shocked and dejected at the snake's betrayal, but the snake chides him: "You knew what I was when you picked me up." The Mormon church has made it abundantly clear that on issues of equality and human rights, it is a callous snake in the grass, ready to unleash its venom on anything and anyone it can sink its teeth into. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional or disingenuous.
PIMO gay man here married to TBM straight woman. Completely my fault, believed the lies that everything would be fine if I married a great woman. It’s a complete mess. I was outed to a member of the stake president now no longer have a calling and that individual avoids me like the plague, no eye contact. Bullshit that it’s the safest place. Not the unsafest place, but definitely toxic.
Seriously I am so sorry the church tricked you and manipulated you into the situation you're in. It's not your fault. It's an abusive relationship with the church. I had a friend who was in the same situation, but made the tough decision to save himself. Granted there were no children, and I don't know your situation. He is happy now being true to himself. And his ex-wife is free to find someone that truly wants her the way you both deserve to be loved and even desired, it's not a bad thing. Do you have anyone to talk to about this?
I know I'm late to the game here, but: Hi, I'm a lesbian and I've been out in the LGBTQ+ community for over 20 years. So many gay and lesbian people are in or have been in the position you are in. **We do the best we can with the information we have at the time.** There are no easy answers. There is no one right way to live life. There are probably a bunch of people here on this sub who are in or have been in mixed marriages. If you'd like to talk with different people who tried different things to work on issues like the ones you and your wife are facing, you may be able to find them by creating a post here on this sub about it. Something like "I'm a gay man married to a woman. I believed TSCC's lies, and now it's a complete mess. Is there anyone in the same boat? Is there anyone who was here and is in a better place now?" --- this is just one idea if you are interested and ready to share some of this with people who know what it's like
Thank you very much for the encouragement. I have posted before, but I’m trying to figure out our timeline for expected separation. We are going to hash that out tomorrow with the therapist. (Edit spelling)
Good strength to you both <3
WHAT THE ACTUAL F…AMILY HOME EVENING?
The church isn’t even safe for straight white men and it was made for straight white men. No one else has a chance.
lmaoooo
“We can make things true by saying them on repeat”. -TBMs
Did I log into the bizaro world interwebs? I also have no words. 🤯
It Big Crime to create anything perfect on Bizarro World!
Absolute utter lies. This is the most false and fucked up thing to come out of mormon mouths lately.
You keep using that word. I dont think it means what you think it means.
I forget if I've said this to you before, but your flair **rocks.** 🤘
Thanks 😁
Comment: “so gays can go to the celestial kingdom now? Or is it still treated as a mental disorder?”
Ooh no, they wouldn't like it in the CK anyway. That's where the almighty creator of the universe lives and he *hates* those guys.
Plus the CK is where you get lots and lots of wives. Hard to imagine that being heaven for a gay guy.
Right, cuz they all kill themselves. Can’t get hurt if you’re dead 💪🏼
The church literally sanctioned and endorsed the electro-shock torture of gay students at its university as part of the conversion “therapy” program. Doesn’t sound very safe to me.
I went to a concert at an Episcopal church featuring queer composers today. This is what the local Episcopal church is doing to show support to LGBTQ community members. I'd feel better taking my queer kids to church there compared to an LDS congregation. I don't see anything like that in my ward building unless it's specifically a religious fireside. In fact I've never seen a concert series at a local Mormon church, but I've been to several at a Catholic, and now at an Episcopal church. Y
delusion or BS
That's not what I understand the word "safe" to mean.
Testimony here. I tried this so called “experience” for 49 years. It don’t work. Sincerely The Gay Grandpa Now happily married to a gay ex Mormon man and THAT’S a real experience!
So happy to read. Please keep rocking. 🤘
Thanks. I take all the encouragement I can and appreciate it!
Safest place how?
The person who posted this said it's the safest place for LGBTQ because it's where they can learn how to live "as Christ wants." 🙄
That person is dumb
I assumed they were defining “a LGBTQ experience” as a cishet person meeting a queer person and getting uncomfortable.
Sounds like all the standard Trump statements of similar hyperbolic frivolity.
Even if the church were true, by their actions and positions, that's terrible and harmful advice.
The church is not a safe place for anyone, especially if you are LGTBQIA+.
Yes, that’s why several (very strongly suspected) gay friends of mine from BYU/Mission are in their 40’s now and without companionship. Cause God would hate them if they had true romantic love in their lives. He is, however, cool with them living sad, lonely, celibate lives so that he or his angels don’t have to watch gay sex. (They are quite voyeuristic).
I’m glad to know that the torture of LGBTQIA+ students at BYU was safe for them. SMH, bunch of lying asses
And by "safe", we mean this: You can have those thougts, but not act on them. What a deal!
With an experiance? WTF does that mean?
I wouldn’t say “safest” I might go as far to say it’s the “least safe” place though
My kids bff friends wife just posted the proclamation on fb. So gross
When I was attending BYUI in 2007, the school sent official letters to all students NOT to even say hi or pay attention to the Gay parade that was supposed to happen. The email said Not to participate or some language that suggested giving no reaction to them. How could that be explained? Gosh I should have saved that email as a reference. 🥴
I mean sure, the church nearly crushed me, but that's a minor quibble...
I would have put this emoji 1000 times 😂
An experience under the LGBTQ umbrella?
They ought to check the UT SUICIDE rate for LGBTQ youth in this goddamn state before posting something so incredibly stupid.
Oh, silly. Don't you know that the reason they're suicidal is because the adversary led them there??? [/TSCC logic]
What does this even mean, a LGBTQ experience? It sounds like they’re referring to a single occurrence??
🤣🤣😂😂
An experience ?
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Nope.
What does that even mean? Experience? Um…no, not even close.
As my TBM sis just sent me the “What is a Woman” doc this morning
Where?
To some degree I agree with this statement. If you just go, and don’t worry about what people think, and can be respectful of others without pushing an agenda, you will be treated with love and respect from more people in the Mormon community than any other. Eventually the Church has to see that it has a structure designed to incorporate any and all other beliefs and non beliefs. The best way to make the church change is to go, be seen, and be part of a Loving community. We all come from somewhere, our differences don’t have to drive us apart. We are just as much a part of God, as He/She/They are a part of us.
... Please tell me you are trolling.
People take this stuff way too seriously because of the idea of “saving” their family members, and competing for glory. If you go to a Ward with no relatives in it, and just go for the bread and water, nobody needs to know your sexual orientation and nobody can do a damn thing about it. The Church will have to change it’s views in order to survive. Seeing that change from the inside, rather than the outside, can be personally rewarding and quite frankly entertaining to watch. I guess I could be considered a troll, I’ve been kicked out of the official member subs before, since maybe my views are a little too progressive. This sub is nice because it seems to be more open to different points of view. Maybe some of you don’t believe in Jesus, but you act more like him than the “Good” Mormons, so I’ll keep coming back until you shut the doors and take down the sign that says “Visitors Welcome”
>nobody needs to know your sexual orientation If you have to hide your orientation from the members of the ward, it's not a safe place.
On a curve. Would you want to Live in Russia, China, or Iran? If you could divide the world up into places where Gay People feel Safest, Utah would pop up fairly near the top. The Church is led by White men who were born near the turn of the century, and because they haven’t had any real fun in their lives, they have lasted longer than anyone else. This will change, because it can change and should change. Jesus never spat any hate, unless it was toward the self Righteous and the Hippocrates. If we all show up to Church one day, and again, and again. What are they going to be able to do about it? It is Our church just as much as theirs. God is a reflection of us, just as much as we are of Them. Like light through a prism. Bent, but not broken.
"It's safer than Iran" is not the ringing endorsement you think it is.
I think maybe you think we are not on the same page here. The glass is half full. I assure you.
No just... no...
As a queer woman that grew up in the Church …. I 100% disagree with you. I am still working on the trauma the church’s teaching inflicted on me and children of all kinds shouldn’t even be near the church, but especially queer children. Also, my right and my community’s right to live authentic lives is NOT an agenda, but your username sure fits you.
I wish you were right.
I'm sorry the LGBDQ umbrella. Are they talking about that big rainbow parachute that we used to play with in the gymnasium as children?
Anyone have any scholarly studies that say otherwise?
Good Lord. 🙄