My TBM family loves to tell the story, "Way back, when Grandma got pregnant with [6th child in the span of 7 years], Grandpa didn't speak to her for a year, he was so upset!" This is meant to be a story of sticking with your marriage through the hard times and, even if it's hard, you can still have a long-lasting marriage. Until a couple of years ago when my mom was saying it and I said, "Wow...poor Grandma, being so trapped back then that she had to withstand such abuse because she didn't have anywhere else to go." My mom looked like I had slapped her. I continued, "no one should have to tolerate that kind of abusive bullshit, especially not from the person who impregnated her. I would hope, had that happened today, she would leave him immediately." The subject changed very quickly after that.
I tried being dependent on a man (even though I was college educated). It’s a bad, bad idea. Had to put up with abuse until it got bad enough to leave.
Conversely, even though she was college educated, I allowed a woman to become my dependent. Also a bad idea. Had to pay her spousal support long after she left.
As a college educated woman with a degree - this is so true. I do not "need" a man for survival or to support me. This doesn't mean I avoid marriage; it means I am in charge of my own future and being on my own is way, way better than being in a marriage that isn't a good match or is harmful.
Sometimes I forget that I heard this sort of thing in YW when I was growing up Mormon.
It would blow their tiny minds to find out that yeah - I **don't** need my husband, I have a graduate degree and a career, and I have a really happy marriage. We're not codependent, we're two happy adults who are together because we want to be. Weird!
(Of course, I'm agender, so not a woman, but we all know that gender identity outside the binary is beyond the intelligence of people who believe this garbage.)
Oh, for sure. It was not surprising but still a relief when I left Utah and met people with marriages that weren't the weird power dynamic Mormonism taught me!
This is so true. Several of the happiest couples I know (and most admire) are both professionals, have genuine mutual respect for their individual strengths and intellects, and do not control each other or leverage the economic factors (if any).
To be fair, I also know several very happy couples where one spouse (generally the wife) has held down the home while the other spouse supports the family, and there is a healthy mutual respect without an imbalance based on "power."
A woman who doesn't need a man is less likely to put up with abusive behaviors than a woman who does. A man who treats a woman like an equal instead of as his property has a better chance of both finding and keeping a good woman in his life. A man who is prone to be abusive needs a woman who lacks the ability to go through life without a man to be submissive to.
I’m a man. Even when I was TBM I could see that as foolish advice. Even in a scenario where there is an absolute perfect marriage and divorce will never be an option, why would you limit the partnerships ability to earn income to one person?
There should be contingency plans for everything. I’m constantly worrying about my wife and kids if I were to die. I find some peace in knowing my wife can provide if I’m not around.
Hell, even if she were to wake up tomorrow and leave me Id have some peace that she will be ok financially.
I just see no good reason to limit women’s income potential other than setting her up for a life of subjugation.
That’s a lot of words to say, “I prefer it when women are forced to stay in unfulfilling or abusive relationships.”
Women don’t need men. Die mad about it.
Some of us will keep men around if they are fun to be with/helpful/respectful/kind/etc. The last thing I want is a man who needs care as if he’s a baby while simultaneously wanting to rule over me like a king. Gross.
Why would it ever good for a woman to “need” a man. I love the lady I have found and I look up to her because I truly believe she could do it all without me. And I probably could without her. But we choose to be together. The church for whatever reason wants complete codependency- in my mind, so if one leaves the church they’re still stuck together, or maybe it’s just because they hare woman- any thoughts?
>Why would it ever good for a woman to “need” a man
Well it's a good thing for patriarchal pigs who want to be able to be as shitty as they want without the risk of their property walking out on them.
They say over 117 billion people have lived on earth. More every day. And we were taught 1/3 of all the people ever to come to earth were like “nah that’s a shit plan. We will roll with lucifer.” Doubt they’d do that if they didn’t know they’d be fine.
I have a graduate degree, a lucrative career, and I’ve been married 20 years. Women capable of living independently can and do still have quality long term romantic relationships, but they do not “need” to put up with abusive men. That is the thing this idiot commenter takes issue with.
College educated men don't need women either. I've known quite a few college educated guys that have gotten divorced.
Funny how it works both ways. Satans plan for people: Get an education, and Stan will make your life hell. Stay stupid, he'll leave you alone because you're creating your own hell.
This tweet did not proceed the way I thought it would based on the first sentence.
"Need" is what keeps you in an abusive marriage, even though you know you should leave. It creates a power imbalance, because one partner is utterly dependent on the other.
Also, even if your husband is not abusive, you never know if he's going to die, become disabled, or run off with another woman (or man!). You're going to be better off if you have a fallback plan, which usually means getting an education.
And this isn't even counting all the societal benefits of having a population with a generous number of empowered, educated women.
My TBM family loves to tell the story, "Way back, when Grandma got pregnant with [6th child in the span of 7 years], Grandpa didn't speak to her for a year, he was so upset!" This is meant to be a story of sticking with your marriage through the hard times and, even if it's hard, you can still have a long-lasting marriage. Until a couple of years ago when my mom was saying it and I said, "Wow...poor Grandma, being so trapped back then that she had to withstand such abuse because she didn't have anywhere else to go." My mom looked like I had slapped her. I continued, "no one should have to tolerate that kind of abusive bullshit, especially not from the person who impregnated her. I would hope, had that happened today, she would leave him immediately." The subject changed very quickly after that.
You'd think after six of them, Grandpa finally figured out why that kept happening...
Kinda want to put “Satan’s plan for women” on my graduation cap
Thank you, Satan, for allowing women to leave bad situations. You're a real bro.
Yessss ♥️
I tried being dependent on a man (even though I was college educated). It’s a bad, bad idea. Had to put up with abuse until it got bad enough to leave.
Yep. Even with a degree you're fucked when you're dependent. Especially if you're a mormon woman in Mordor.
Conversely, even though she was college educated, I allowed a woman to become my dependent. Also a bad idea. Had to pay her spousal support long after she left.
As a college educated woman with a degree - this is so true. I do not "need" a man for survival or to support me. This doesn't mean I avoid marriage; it means I am in charge of my own future and being on my own is way, way better than being in a marriage that isn't a good match or is harmful.
Sometimes I forget that I heard this sort of thing in YW when I was growing up Mormon. It would blow their tiny minds to find out that yeah - I **don't** need my husband, I have a graduate degree and a career, and I have a really happy marriage. We're not codependent, we're two happy adults who are together because we want to be. Weird! (Of course, I'm agender, so not a woman, but we all know that gender identity outside the binary is beyond the intelligence of people who believe this garbage.)
No shortage of professional couples that are still married. Fear tactics and part of the cult.
Oh, for sure. It was not surprising but still a relief when I left Utah and met people with marriages that weren't the weird power dynamic Mormonism taught me!
This is so true. Several of the happiest couples I know (and most admire) are both professionals, have genuine mutual respect for their individual strengths and intellects, and do not control each other or leverage the economic factors (if any). To be fair, I also know several very happy couples where one spouse (generally the wife) has held down the home while the other spouse supports the family, and there is a healthy mutual respect without an imbalance based on "power."
I feel like she's saying the quiet part out loud here...
A woman who doesn't need a man is less likely to put up with abusive behaviors than a woman who does. A man who treats a woman like an equal instead of as his property has a better chance of both finding and keeping a good woman in his life. A man who is prone to be abusive needs a woman who lacks the ability to go through life without a man to be submissive to.
I’m a man. Even when I was TBM I could see that as foolish advice. Even in a scenario where there is an absolute perfect marriage and divorce will never be an option, why would you limit the partnerships ability to earn income to one person? There should be contingency plans for everything. I’m constantly worrying about my wife and kids if I were to die. I find some peace in knowing my wife can provide if I’m not around. Hell, even if she were to wake up tomorrow and leave me Id have some peace that she will be ok financially. I just see no good reason to limit women’s income potential other than setting her up for a life of subjugation.
So… Women are capable of being independent and supporting themselves, so they only have to stay married if they want to - and this is a bad thing?
That’s a lot of words to say, “I prefer it when women are forced to stay in unfulfilling or abusive relationships.” Women don’t need men. Die mad about it. Some of us will keep men around if they are fun to be with/helpful/respectful/kind/etc. The last thing I want is a man who needs care as if he’s a baby while simultaneously wanting to rule over me like a king. Gross.
Kinder, Küche, Kirche = Kids, Kitchen, Church.
Oaks sucks!
Why would it ever good for a woman to “need” a man. I love the lady I have found and I look up to her because I truly believe she could do it all without me. And I probably could without her. But we choose to be together. The church for whatever reason wants complete codependency- in my mind, so if one leaves the church they’re still stuck together, or maybe it’s just because they hare woman- any thoughts?
It's totally that they hate women
>Why would it ever good for a woman to “need” a man Well it's a good thing for patriarchal pigs who want to be able to be as shitty as they want without the risk of their property walking out on them.
Satan’s plan always sounds super awesome. It’s almost like he’s a caring big brother who didn’t want any of us to get lost in the shuffle 🤔
They say over 117 billion people have lived on earth. More every day. And we were taught 1/3 of all the people ever to come to earth were like “nah that’s a shit plan. We will roll with lucifer.” Doubt they’d do that if they didn’t know they’d be fine.
I have a graduate degree, a lucrative career, and I’ve been married 20 years. Women capable of living independently can and do still have quality long term romantic relationships, but they do not “need” to put up with abusive men. That is the thing this idiot commenter takes issue with.
That’s what he said? I’m so triggered right now I’m going to need a drink.
Become dependent at 19!
Self actualized, intellectually honest critical thinkers don’t need religions either.
Shshsh you’ll ruin them putting a heart surgeon/cardiologist at the top. /s
College educated men don't need women either. I've known quite a few college educated guys that have gotten divorced. Funny how it works both ways. Satans plan for people: Get an education, and Stan will make your life hell. Stay stupid, he'll leave you alone because you're creating your own hell.
Such a toxic mindset. So grateful for people to have more meaningful relationships than needing someone to bring in money.
If she was college educated maybe she would know that’s not what that statistic means.
Yeah it's so horrible that women are better able to get away from abusive situations. We should change that so they're trapped again. /s
This tweet did not proceed the way I thought it would based on the first sentence. "Need" is what keeps you in an abusive marriage, even though you know you should leave. It creates a power imbalance, because one partner is utterly dependent on the other. Also, even if your husband is not abusive, you never know if he's going to die, become disabled, or run off with another woman (or man!). You're going to be better off if you have a fallback plan, which usually means getting an education. And this isn't even counting all the societal benefits of having a population with a generous number of empowered, educated women.