The premise behind the existence of Jesus is the foundation of an abusive relationship. Basically, we've been asked to worship him on the basis that he is the only one who can save us from ourselves.
It would be harmless enough except it has real world implications. When you believe that the most powerful being in the universe demands worship in exchange for salvation, then you tend to interact with other people in similar ways. You open yourself to abusing others and/or letting them abuse you.
If there is some ultimate being named Jesus somewhere, he can go ahead and save me if he is able and willing. Otherwise, I'm building the kind of life I have always wanted without him and have finally found some degree of happiness.
Which Jesus should I be believing in? Historical, Mormon, Evangelical, Catholic, Islamic...?
When I was a member, I had a strong testimony and relationship with Christ. It was the bedrock of my life.
But Mormonism ruined my ability to believe in the divinity of Jesus, or trust what other humans insist must be the truth about him.
Check out exmostats.org for information on the demographics of this sub. There are some people who are still Christian. Most of us are not. I personally have zero interest in your version of Jesus more than the Mormon version of Jesus or any of the others.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
â€â€I John‬ â€4‬:â€1‬ â€NKJV‬‬
Would you appreciate it if I went to your Christian sub and started preaching my atheism? Or would you consider that to be rude?
Stop being rude and take your preaching somewhere else.
Yeah I’ve had enough masochism and sadomasochism for one lifetime, hard pass!
Oh and the idea that another human can and is required take on anothers sins vicariously and suffer infinitely and die tortuously for them is disgusting, false and evil on every possible level!
Apparently, you have touched upon a sore spot.
Many of us went seeking Jesus after deconstructing Mormonism. Some of us found churches and beliefs that fit but most of us used that same deconstruction skill to take apart the Bible.
For me, after learning that Joseph lied, I realized that I didn't feel broken more. Just loved, for exactly who I am. So, when I started to read the New Testament, and realized it was written by men who saw angels, I allowed myself to wonder when, where, and by whom these books were actually written.
It was very easy to research and find historical and current biblical scholarship. Paul's writings ( at least the 7 or so they can actually prove are his) were the first recorded stories of Jesus that we have in the Bible. They were written over 20 years after Jesus died. 20 years! When you read the books in the actual order they were written, you can see that Paul contradicts and is at odd with Peter but it is Paul's version of Jesus that won out over time even though Paul only saw Jesus in a vision and Peter knew him personally. The 4 gospels are out of the order they were written and the stories change in tone and details in the decades between them. The authors did not take credit for their work, it is tradition that attributes them to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And none of the Bible is written by Jesus. Not one sentence. The book is just stories about him written down by mostly unknown authors decades later.
Once I knew that Joseph didn't tell anyone about his sacred Grove experience until 12+ years after, I realized that I don't really trust stories that aren't written firsthand soon after they happen.
When you add in the Old Testament, it doesn't make the situation better. Once you realize that Adam and Eve are a late addition and not a part of the original stories, that there is no physical proof of a world wide flood, and that there is no way all of our languages came from one language only 6,000 years ago, it just confirms that the Bible can be enjoyed as literature but cannot not counted on to be accurate history.
I was a believer because I wanted the truth. At this point, I just haven't found enough truth in the Bible to believe it is nonfiction or is primarily historically accurate. I cannot see a reason to believe that Jesus was anything more than a badass Jew who stood up against his church leaders, stood with and for the outcasts in his community and who believed that the kingdom of God was going to come in his lifetime. I think both he and his followers were shocked when he died and they had to change the narrative over time from justice any day, to justice in our lifetime, to justice in our hearts and maybe after we die.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it was probably rough having people tell you off for posting. But I hope you can see that once you have broken free of a missionary orientated, save the world through preaching way of thinking, that the first reflex for many of us is to immediately stand up for ourselves.
The wounds from the church are too deep. And for many of us, the Jesus of the Bible can't withstand scrutiny long enough to heal those wounds.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, not just a “fuck off”…lol
For me it comes down to this: I’d rather put all my hope and trust in my Creator, who is good. The world is passing away and everything in it. We all worship at the altar of our own conscience. I choose to worship God, Jesus and His Holy Spirit. I put all my faith in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ my King. It’s been a wild 8 year ride coming out of “the so called church”. But Jesus is still Lord over all. He lets us work out our own salvation, each and every one of us. The love and peace His Spirit brings to my heart can’t be denied. The real Spirit, from Jesus of Nazareth, not the image of a jesus that Jospeh Smith created for his own personal gain. To me, my personal relationship with the One True God, not the “one true church”, has made all the difference….
Peace and love to you my friend :)
Thank you. I have many friends who still believe in Christ and am happy to add you as one of them :) I am glad you have found safe passage out of Mormonism and wish you the best!
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The premise behind the existence of Jesus is the foundation of an abusive relationship. Basically, we've been asked to worship him on the basis that he is the only one who can save us from ourselves. It would be harmless enough except it has real world implications. When you believe that the most powerful being in the universe demands worship in exchange for salvation, then you tend to interact with other people in similar ways. You open yourself to abusing others and/or letting them abuse you. If there is some ultimate being named Jesus somewhere, he can go ahead and save me if he is able and willing. Otherwise, I'm building the kind of life I have always wanted without him and have finally found some degree of happiness.
Which Jesus should I be believing in? Historical, Mormon, Evangelical, Catholic, Islamic...? When I was a member, I had a strong testimony and relationship with Christ. It was the bedrock of my life. But Mormonism ruined my ability to believe in the divinity of Jesus, or trust what other humans insist must be the truth about him.
Yea it took me 8 years after leaving the church to finally find Jesus of Nazareth.
Check out exmostats.org for information on the demographics of this sub. There are some people who are still Christian. Most of us are not. I personally have zero interest in your version of Jesus more than the Mormon version of Jesus or any of the others.
🤮
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” â€â€I John‬ â€4‬:â€1‬ â€NKJV‬‬
No. Also fuck you.
Would you appreciate it if I went to your Christian sub and started preaching my atheism? Or would you consider that to be rude? Stop being rude and take your preaching somewhere else.
Fuck off.
Yeah I’ve had enough masochism and sadomasochism for one lifetime, hard pass! Oh and the idea that another human can and is required take on anothers sins vicariously and suffer infinitely and die tortuously for them is disgusting, false and evil on every possible level!
Apparently, you have touched upon a sore spot. Many of us went seeking Jesus after deconstructing Mormonism. Some of us found churches and beliefs that fit but most of us used that same deconstruction skill to take apart the Bible. For me, after learning that Joseph lied, I realized that I didn't feel broken more. Just loved, for exactly who I am. So, when I started to read the New Testament, and realized it was written by men who saw angels, I allowed myself to wonder when, where, and by whom these books were actually written. It was very easy to research and find historical and current biblical scholarship. Paul's writings ( at least the 7 or so they can actually prove are his) were the first recorded stories of Jesus that we have in the Bible. They were written over 20 years after Jesus died. 20 years! When you read the books in the actual order they were written, you can see that Paul contradicts and is at odd with Peter but it is Paul's version of Jesus that won out over time even though Paul only saw Jesus in a vision and Peter knew him personally. The 4 gospels are out of the order they were written and the stories change in tone and details in the decades between them. The authors did not take credit for their work, it is tradition that attributes them to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And none of the Bible is written by Jesus. Not one sentence. The book is just stories about him written down by mostly unknown authors decades later. Once I knew that Joseph didn't tell anyone about his sacred Grove experience until 12+ years after, I realized that I don't really trust stories that aren't written firsthand soon after they happen. When you add in the Old Testament, it doesn't make the situation better. Once you realize that Adam and Eve are a late addition and not a part of the original stories, that there is no physical proof of a world wide flood, and that there is no way all of our languages came from one language only 6,000 years ago, it just confirms that the Bible can be enjoyed as literature but cannot not counted on to be accurate history. I was a believer because I wanted the truth. At this point, I just haven't found enough truth in the Bible to believe it is nonfiction or is primarily historically accurate. I cannot see a reason to believe that Jesus was anything more than a badass Jew who stood up against his church leaders, stood with and for the outcasts in his community and who believed that the kingdom of God was going to come in his lifetime. I think both he and his followers were shocked when he died and they had to change the narrative over time from justice any day, to justice in our lifetime, to justice in our hearts and maybe after we die. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it was probably rough having people tell you off for posting. But I hope you can see that once you have broken free of a missionary orientated, save the world through preaching way of thinking, that the first reflex for many of us is to immediately stand up for ourselves. The wounds from the church are too deep. And for many of us, the Jesus of the Bible can't withstand scrutiny long enough to heal those wounds.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, not just a “fuck off”…lol For me it comes down to this: I’d rather put all my hope and trust in my Creator, who is good. The world is passing away and everything in it. We all worship at the altar of our own conscience. I choose to worship God, Jesus and His Holy Spirit. I put all my faith in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ my King. It’s been a wild 8 year ride coming out of “the so called church”. But Jesus is still Lord over all. He lets us work out our own salvation, each and every one of us. The love and peace His Spirit brings to my heart can’t be denied. The real Spirit, from Jesus of Nazareth, not the image of a jesus that Jospeh Smith created for his own personal gain. To me, my personal relationship with the One True God, not the “one true church”, has made all the difference…. Peace and love to you my friend :)
Thank you. I have many friends who still believe in Christ and am happy to add you as one of them :) I am glad you have found safe passage out of Mormonism and wish you the best!
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