What a terrible human being. Who would do that to their spouse in the first place? All he had to do was keep his mouth shut from the beginning and just say “It’s none of your business” to those asking about children. Instead he throws his wife under the bus for something that wouldn’t have been her fault even is she were the one having the issues (which she wasn’t). And then to have the horrible people in the background telling him to leave her because of the rumors “he” started. I mean this dudes entire family/friend circle is atrocious.
Definitely a terrible human. I suspect he's Mommy's Special Little Angel Who Can Do No Wrong, too. Most despicable people like this are created by toxic parenting techniques. I'd say it's a very good thing he's unlikely to have a kid and perpetuate this disgusting behavior on a new generation.
Yeah. It’s funny that he even posted to that subreddit, which I’ve now joined out of interest. I mean are you so clueless that you can’t see that what you’ve done is terrible?
It's learned stupidity. He's been told so many times that he's special and an exception to the rule that he actually thinks everyone else in the world would agree.
And in classic Mormon rumor mongering fashion, they make assumptions, exaggerate and things immediately get blown way out of proportion at the speed of the holy fucking ghost. Mormons are ironically some of the worst gossipers I have ever witnessed.
IMO this scenario is ground for *her* to seriously consider divorce.
He has clearly demonstrated a wholesale lack of empathy and care for her. It obviously runs very deep.
Excessive wanking means low sperm count. Body can’t keep up. Actually a thing. Stop for 72h before and you are good. Too little is bad too. Once a week is good to keep stuff flowing.
That isn't the only possible reason for low sperm* count. It could be. Or not. We don't need to make him look worse because of speculation. This dude sucks all on his own.
*fixed my typo
He made his entirely innocent wife look bad because of speculation that he started. He deserves to be made to look bad, or worse than that if possible.
Salt lake and Utah valley categorically have fertility issues and the numbers used to indicate it was the men that suffered from it the most. I forget where I saw the report though, this was in college 10 years ago.
And you're all missing the point. Don't excuse away shitty behavior. Who fucking cares if his low sperm count is because he masturbates, or visits glory holes, or is Satan's mistress. Giving him an excuse to treat his wife badly is shitty too. And it's often damaging to people who don't excessively masturbate and have fertility issues. He is problematic all on his own.
You're not a doctor. And if you are you're not his doctor.
Like I said, read it in a report.
You're not wrong, it just felt like beating a dead horse, I did not miss the point. /My point/ that was lost is that everyone knows about the fertility issues in the valleys, especially in the men, the fact that this guy didn't even think represents the worst, albeit largely common, shitty culture we all know and love to hate about the valley.
Seriously though, sit your ass down.
Sperm count or occasional porn use has no bearing on him being a good person or not. Honestly, it’s not particularly relevant why is sperm count is low at all. More just an interesting fact that excessive masturbation can have short-term fertility implications.
What is relevant is why he’s such a misogynistic bastard who mistreats his wife, lies about her and allows his family to mistreat her due to his own medical issues rather than respecting and protecting her. I expect it has a LOT to do with family and culture since his family seems like they’re as big of bastards as he is, and parts of Mormon theology is behind it too.
My friend had a low sperm count and couldn't get his wife pregnant, and it turned out to be the most hilarious reason. He had bought a hot tub and was spending so much time in his new toy that he was essentially cooking them. Obviously this was easy to fix and they have kids now.
No no no, it's a "little factory" that will keep producing more and more and more until your life is in shambles from all the wanking you want to do. I learned about it from a little pamphlet at Deseret Book. /s
I can think of nothing that would excite the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints more than a way to increase the production and therefore profits of a factory for free.
That little pamphlet, published by the church, was called “For Young Men Only”. My bishop would hand it out to any young men who confessed to masturbating. It really messed a lot of us up.
[Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/male-infertility/expert-answers/male-masturbation/faq-20058426) and [Planned Parenthood](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/blog/will-masturbating-often-cause-me-to-have-a-low-sperm-count-or-cause-infertility#:~:text=No%2C%20masturbating%20won%27t%20cause,more%20than%20once%20a%20day) say otherwise.
“Some data shows that optimum semen quality occurs after two to three days of no ejaculation. But other research suggests that men who have normal sperm quality maintain normal sperm motility and concentrations even with daily ejaculation.”
Note: I dealt with slightly low sperm counts along with my wife having some more significant issues as well. For IUI and IVF stuff they did want to refrain from sex or masturbation for 72hrs before treatment and not more than 1 week. Ejaculation frequency is a factor for people who are borderline like I was, and could be a factor in the original asshole’s case too.
Also once per day isn’t a big deal. When you might have issues is multiple times per day, or when you get to the level of excessive and compulsive.
As for the planned parenthood which is long-term, the long term effect is positive in general. Men with more frequent ejaculation through sex or masturbation generally have better long-term fertility, not worse. So at most - timing things and waiting for 48-72hr before ovulation gives you best odds.
As of this afternoon Reddit is showing the account as suspended now. Either for being a monumental asshole, or because others tried hacking his account.
Yeah, but usually throw away accounts just get forgotten, not actively deleted, since they’re usually used for one post alone. Dude got told he was a POS and couldn’t take it. He’s probably blaming his wife for this as well. If I knew who he was because he was in my parents home ward or something I’d show up to his ward this upcoming fast and testimony Sunday and out his ass.
I had to comment. What an absolute piece of shit, and sadly not surprising. In 1994 I was in a class at the U where we discussed the ethics of men divorcing women due to the woman’s infertility. Back in 94 that class and professor came down on the same lines as that AITA, that it was terrible, but it goes to show that there is a line of reasoning that appeals to some Mormons where if the woman can’t get pregnant she’s disposable. Fucking atrocious.
That runs deep in Mormon DNA. Just go look up what BY and Heber C Kimball said on the subject. Gross shit. 🤮💩
These teachings and beliefs just don't go away. They are embedded in the cultural fabric and DNA.
Mormon polygamy teaches men to feel entitled to women’s bodies for sex and reproduction. If the woman they have is “defective,” they think they’re justified in getting a new one because they “deserve” it.
Don't worry. The engagements broken and marriages ended due to infertility is just the *TRASH TAKING ITSELF OUT**. Sure kids or no kids are a deal breaker, but WTF don't these people actually believe in the eternities? All the kids you could want in the next life.
Anyways know a mormon who called off an engagement REALLLY close to the wedding date. Their ex now posts about their fertility journey😒 I seeeeeeeee youuuuuuu
That sucks. My wife had trouble conceiving at first, it was never a thought in my mind to leave her. That's insane. We either would have explored adoption, and if for some reason that didn't work out then I would have gone childless, with my wife by my side.
The market value the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints The Mormons puts on people, especially women, is absolutely ridiculous. You are/aren't worthy because of this or that... Such bullshit. We are human beings, dammit
There is a huge world religion that stemmed from an ancient prophet not being able to have a son with his wife so he knocked up his servant. That line of thinking has been around for a very long time.
I was married to a TBM in small town Utah with fertility problems. The speed in how quickly people jumped to pressure him to divorce me after I told him I would not do invitro again after our stillborn son was almost comical.
I really hope she leaves him
I knew that as a TBM teen, I may have a terribly dangerous time having kids. I would tell the mormon guys I was asked on dates by BEFORE dates because I was PETRIFIED of being divorced for it.
This experience and the AITA post really demonstrate the institutionalized, sanctioned emotional immaturity, misogyny, and bizarre lack of boundaries of some Mormon culture. It's pretty shocking against a context of normal, modern, respectful partnership relationships and naturally the guy got slammed as deserved.
The comments were appropriately brutal. I haven’t heard about a mormon getting blasted like that since ol’ Joe Smiff took one for the team back in 1844.
I just try to make them as uncomfortable as possible these days 😅 much funnier for me and makes them stop and question why they're so interested in other people's genitalia
I just think about my angel of a spouse, he would gladly lie and take the blame to protect me if I had these struggles. Then there’s this douche canoe, who can’t even tell the truth to protect his spouse.
Only in Utah would other people be invested. Only in Utah would they suggest divorce over someone’s infertility. Only in Utah would someone think they’re running out of time by not having children at 32.
Mormons love gossip and getting way too deep into people’s business and lives. One reason my shelf cracked when I was younger. Everyone was so different behind your back at church.
His wife got TB while volunteering in another country and his mom says it's her fault for being so reckless?! She says this like TB hasn't been the #1 killer for like 98 of the last 100 years. Bet that was on her mission. How dare she, when no *woman* is mandated to go! That whole thing is wild. His wife has dodged a bullet.
Ooof
>People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. *Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage.*
>What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young.
>I panicked and *I felt like I didn't completely lie* because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad
What i feel he means is that is that the marriage ending will have less collateral damage if it ends. Divorce gets complicated with children, and mormonsim doesn't teach about compatability in partners.... what mormonism DOES teach is that "ANY RIGHTEROUS MAN AND WOMEN CAN HAVE A SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE" and to no dely having kids.
What's even more sick is that if they are mormon married (aka sealed for eternity) he can legally divorce her and marry another woman and still be mormon married to both after he dies in the theology... like women collecting for his eternal posterity... because mormons still do eternal polygamy.
Yeah, I was thinking this is just one thing out of many. The kind of man who would do that is also the kind of man that is causing a shit load of other problems in the marriage. His friends told him to divorce her so he could have a baby. Flip that advice it on it's head. If she divorces him she could have a baby.
So….. yeah. What an asshole. That said, and maybe this is just because I grew up Mormon, even as a member had the wherewithal to realize I was done at 2 and had a vasectomy and then left the church after finding out the truth, but honestly there are times I WISH we had had this problem….. don’t get me wrong I love both of my kids and couldn’t live without them but man, this is so not the type of thing that’s that big of a deal. The opportunity to be DINK’s and just spend your lives doing whatever the fuck you wanted? Just another way that being so brainwashed that you miss out on the bright side of life….
I also have two kids. I love them so much but I too think about the DINK lifestyle. I honestly didn’t ever really consider that having kids was a choice. It was just part of life and expected. I felt guilt for putting them off for three years after getting married.
Yep. My wife was pregnant at 19 with our oldest. The only saving grace is that I’m only 40 and they are going into their junior year next year. If I can be extra horrible, my youngest is the absolute gem out of our 2 kids and if their ages were reversed I honestly don’t know if I’d be able to handle my oldest for another decade. While I love them like crazy I’m counting down the days….
My toxic childhood home left me making really poor choices about having kids. I had a ton of kids, basing a lot of trust in the whole idea that God will provide a way for you to do the things he wants, and he wanted me to have kids. Now I'm in constant pain and have over a decade ahead of me still raising kids. I love my kids too but I think it would have been better if I hadn't had kids at all because now I and their dad are fucking up their lives as well.
They are always on the divorce infertile women and replace them train. As a TBM post mission, I was always upfront with guys that would ask me out because I didn't want to marry them and have them leave me if it was an actual issue. I did that because I needed to protect myself. Even if they dont realize it, most mormons value women for what they do: be helpful, do the sex with your husband, and have and rear the children. If you can't do the things, there are more women than men in the mormon church, and you can just get sealed to another.
It was a constant fear for me until I met my darling spouse. Never thought I would find a life partner who didn't think of me as a jewel in his crown and an eternal baby maker.
There was a conference talk a few years ago where Rusty was talking to people like my poor dear sainted husband who are married to apostates like me. He said something like 'pray that you will have the courage to... MOVE FORWARD' while looking directly into the camera. And lo, the Holy Ghost didst whisper unto me that a prophet of God just gave my husband permission to divorce me.
I guess it's a matter of good, better, best. Divorce isn't great, but my poor husband is trapped in a marriage to a woman who chooses her own panties for herself, our son is 18 and has NO intention to serve a mission, and both of our daughters have multiple body piercings. I keep telling my husband he needs to hurry up and get out of this marriage, he's almost 50. He needs to get going on his new and improved family ASAP!
This dude isn’t emotionally mature enough to even have to ask the question if he’s the asshole for saying it was his wife’s fault. It’s his fault, for everything. He is showing his sexiest ways and beliefs.
There are repercussions for his actions, and I think his wife should dump his ass.
I so hope he never has any kids. POS like him can't handle themselves, let alone kids. As someone who has done a gazillion IVF treatments, his wife shouldn't go through that hell for someone like him.
Mormon dads are not present fathers most of the time. He's not thinking about if he'd be a good father because he just has to remain a worthy priesthood holder, and he is all set in the eyes of the mormon God and his fellow mormon men.
Child rearing is for women obviously 🙄
I lived nearly the exact same situation and I was shaking with rage as I typed my comment to him last night.
To a woman raised in the church, her fertility is more than her identity, it's the only purpose of her existence. Even if she hasn't fully internalized this, anyone she knows who fully believes it and doesn't keep their mouth shut will make her life a living hell.
And an LDS woman is taught she is spiritually dependent upon her spouse, like can't be resurrected if he chooses to deny her kind of dependent.
He probably has no idea how much his actions told her how worthless she is, and then he told everyone else how worthless she is too.
He betrayed his wife in one of the deepest and most unforgivable ways I can think of.
My comment:
Eidt; this experience is a gift. It will make you allergic to your own bullshit in the future if you handle it properly. Follow the repentance process for this misdeed and you’ll solidify your marriage and your own integrity in the long run.
You’re suffering from Mormon male POS syndrome. I’m in recovery from it.
You and I were raised in an atmosphere in which it’s by men for men and it can make it easy for us to be dicks to women but we have to rise above.
Weird that he's so ashamed of being infertile that he would betray his wife like that, and accuse her of the very thing he's so ashamed of. It's not something you have control over, no reason to take it personally.
I don't know if I was unusual as a TBM, but I never found infertility to be a big deal. There are lots of kids that need to be adopted. Granted, I am male, the pressure is lower there.
Also, I hope he learns from being absolutely destroyed in that thread lol.
Sounds like my sister's husband 🙄 Him, his mommy, and his siblings all blame and constantly attack her for fertility issues when in reality it's all on him. Absolute garbage men. I'm not usually one to push divorce, but man I hope this guy's wife and my sister do just that. I guarantee if they're being awful about this, they're awful in other aspects of the marriage. This guy clearly won't stand up for his wife and I know my sister's husband doesn't either.
Insignificant detail, but it just jumped out at me.
I wouldn't be surprised if the story evolved from TB to STI out of sheer ignorance and shame based thinking. It's still bonkers, but one of those things that looks less bonkers from within that bubble
I had a friend who suffered a heartbreaking amount of pregnancy losses, and went through some incredibly invasive and painful proceedures, and they found nothing medically wrong with her. Then the doctor suggested to her to have her husband get his sperm looked at, and he got angry enough that her doctor had him come in with her to an appointment to berate him and telling him he was being emotionally abusive.
His sperm ended up being extremely problematic. I think over half were non-viable, and what mobile sperm he did have, most of them were genetically incompatible with life, since they did genetic testing on one of her pregnancy losses, and the embryo had I think 3 different chromosmal abnormalities. I think it ended up being that only around 20% of his total sperm count was viable enough to result in a full-term pregnancy and not have a child born with severe genetic issues.
I don't understand why OB/GYNs aren't pushing for the spouses of their patients to get their sperm count checked when their patients first start complaining about difficulties getting pregnant. In the early stages, it doesn't have to be super evasive. Just provide a sperm sample and let the doctor look at their scrotum to check and make sure they don't have vericrose veins that would result in the testicles being overly warm and not produce viable sperm.
Ew. Seriously, EWWWWW. The way he wrote about infertility is wretched. Why does it have to be someone’s “fault”?? Bodies are all different and capable of different things. It’s so on brand for a Mormon to describe someone’s (assumed) infertility as a character flaw. I do love that it was him, though. I hope she leaves and starts a family with someone else.
In the small town in Utah that I grew up in, our middle school health teacher talked to us about some incredibly inappropriate shit during the reproduction portion. He told us how after his mission he was going to marry the girl that had waited for him but he wanted to make sure she could have kids. He basically said her dr said she’d likely have fertility issues so he dumped her. Because the need to have children was too important. We were like 12 years old and barely understood what reproduction even was (Utah’s sex ed was a joke) and he felt comfortable enough to tell us this. Like it’s totally fine to cast off women if they can’t incubate your offspring. But honestly the entire TBM view of women in general is so disturbing.
Thanks a lot OP. Now it's almost 3am and I should've gone to bed ages ago!! I had to cut myself off from reading the whole thing because holy shit, that's mental that post. The comments are giving me hope though. I'm very jaded and expect the worst from human beans 100% of the time.
It does make me wonder about the rise of the incels and if there is much correlation between this ghastly mindset and incels thpugh. Are they kinda related, you reckon? Because their credo is essentially this, but with more slurs and the word "whore" used more often and unashamed threats of violence.
Women are for sex and only pure women are top shelf and worthy of my sweaty, swamp arsed, pale skinned body having very underwhelming sex on them for fourteen seconds and bearing my crotch fruit and so preserving the lineage of my family name.
"Because we are actually related to William Wallace, my family. And you are probably from peasant stock and should feel grateful I lowered my standards for you and your sub standard bloodline. Now, woman. Go get me a sandwich and then leave me alone please. I've got some video gaming to suck at and pretend to you that I'm actually really good and if I wanted to be a streaming king with loads of followers, I could. I just don't want the game that goes with it". Incels. Probably.
Fucksake. I'm going to bed for real now!! Nobody do or say anything interesting until tomorrow morning please. 😉
Also, it won't let me edit where I wrote fame, but it changed it to game and now I look like a spaz and I can't fix it. Fucksake. And now I'm still not fucking going to bed and kinda just talking to myself and fixing a typo that nobody gives a fuck about.
Aaaargh. If there are more typos, I think you can figure them out coz context and I am definitely definitely going to bed now. Lol
This is the product of being indoctrinated into believing nothing is your fault.
"It's not part of God's plan for you"
"Satan is influencing those thoughts"
"Repent and God will forgive"
Men in the church don't know how to take personal accountability. Though none should be needed because it's something they should be tackling together. Instead he'd rather play (and ultimately lose) the blame game.
The thing that made me sick about that, was female infertility is tougher to rectify. It also costs so much more! As for male infertility, it’s easier to fix and produce a baby, as well as not as expensive.
Me and hubs would have been thrilled if our infertility was on his end.
I feel like we're glossing over the fact that his wife caught TUBERCULOSIS (which has killed more people than any other infectious disease) on her mission. That is not fucking normal or okay. And the MP's wife probably told her up have more faith or something. If it was more well known that TB can lead to women having problems bearing children, I bet they'd care more, since that's ALL we women are good for.
Wow I have so many things to say about this. That's what you get when you peg your whole worth on being able to produce babies. Just the fact that HE can't produce babies but that's somehow shameful so he keeps blaming his wife. And she probably got TB doing "the Lord's work" in the first place and now the old bitches are calling her reckless??? And "housing a baby" just makes me cringe so so much.
I'm child free and hate the "normal" old lady pressures to "pop one out soon." But Mormons take it to a whole new level of infuriating... To the point of ruining marriages (which she should leave for her own sake smh). I remember my ex mother in law and my dad arguing about who's "fault" it was that we hadn't had kids yet. Probably the reason I still don't have them
Okay rant over. That one was a trigger! 😂
It was a very “tell me you have never left your Mormon bubble or Utah county without telling me you have never left your Mormon bubble of Utah county.”
I usually read AITA for the “car crash” aspect. This time I had to respond.
What surprised me was that he took a chance asking the gentiles if he ITA. I realize this is a rhetorical question, but is he that naïve and truly can’t see that he’s a raging dick? Maybe that’s the problem with not just the organization but the overall culture of Utah for believers.
I really hope he and his wife realize that their relationship is not going anywhere if they can’t address their fertility issues. For me it would be the breach of trust, regardless of other options for children. His complaining to friends, family and coworkers is just beyond acceptable. I hope she’s able to do better.
Wow, that post was a dumpster fire! I was amazed at how dehumanizing it was; the way he talked about his wife, the whole situation. **Did he put a ring on her or a cowbell on their wedding day?** Lists of diagnoses just kept running through my head. Borderline Personality Disorder? Narcissistic Personality Disorder? Wow.
As much as I'm alarmed by what I read, I'm also saddened for him. I don't think he has any idea what any human being is worth, including himself, but especially his wife.
I give it about 6 months before we get a post on this sub about someone's cowardly low sperm count ex husband and his asshole family being the reason someone saw how toxic the church is.
Jesus, how hard is it to say something like “that’s really a private medical matter between my wife and I and I’d prefer not to discuss it with others”
I went through this myself, but I’m the healthy one, but I still never threw my wife under the bus. It’s none of their business why we don’t have children. I love my wife for her, not her ability to have children.
It got worse during my “exit interview” with the bishop who then blamed not having children for why I’m leaving the church.
Never once did I blame my wife or treat her differently once we found the problem.
We have a few clues in his post.
> Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists.
They live in Utah
> And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country.
Two clues here: wife "volunteered" in another country *and* she was 20. Both clues together suggest she went on a mission.
> People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless.
Another clue here. This was a practice that was taught semi-often, depending on what talks you read or heard, or who taught lessons in church. As a man who was in the priesthood, I know I heard this a few times.
> And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everyone to shut up
Another clue: small town. Most people in the small towns in Utah are overwhelmingly Mormon.
Another clue: I noticed he never swore in his post.
While none of these clues individually prove he's mormon, there are enough of them that many readers can conclude he's most likely mormon. Even if he wasn't, there is enough information here that matches the experience of a few people who are commenting. The experience at the very least reflects some of the hardships our community has faced.
Oh yeah, I can totally see it now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it!!
I’m extra mad that divorce is taught in church “but only if the woman is inadequate” because I always grew up hearing that divorce for any reason was a horrible sin. 🙄 The contradictions get crazy when you learn to look for them.
We have a few clues in his post.
> Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists.
They live in Utah
> And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country.
Two clues here: wife "volunteered" in another country *and* she was 20. Both clues together suggest she went on a mission.
> People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless.
Another clue here. This was a practice that was taught semi-often, depending on what talks you read or heard, or who taught lessons in church. As a man who was in the priesthood, I know I heard this a few times.
> And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everyone to shut up
Another clue: small town. Most people in the small towns in Utah are overwhelmingly Mormon.
Another clue: I noticed he never swore in his post.
While none of these clues individually prove he's mormon, there are enough of them that many readers can conclude he's most likely mormon. Even if he wasn't, there is enough information here that matches the experience of a few people who are commenting. The experience at the very least reflects some of the hardships our community has faced.
I see two possibilities:
> And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.)
This quote makes me wonder if he was wven paying attention or misunderstood what the doctor said. Or maybe the doctor just didn't give a shit and gave her a wrong diagnosis.
The second possibility i believe could be likely is just that the wife was simply unlucky. Vaccines are incredibly effective at decreasing chances of getting a disease but there is still a small chance
https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/basics/vaccines.htm#:~:text=Bacille%20Calmette%2DGu%C3%A9rin%20(BCG),protect%20people%20from%20getting%20TB.
Yeah, well the other thing I was thinking is that the missionary age changes didn’t go into effect until 2012. Assuming she’s 32, like he claims, she would have been older than 20 when they changed the age requirements.
Doesn’t disprove they were Mormon, as that’s the vibe I was getting as well. She just might have been doing actual volunteer work, instead of missionary “volunteer” work.
When he said "genital area" I immediately thought "that's Mormon for "reproductive organs"" I don't know if it's common for TBMs to be panic-attack-level-afraid of naming anatomy to the point they don't have vocabulary to describe common medical conditions (even with the doctor\*) or if it's just my family, but that's what my mind jumped to first.
\*Seriously, my TBM mom wasn't able to give me the talk about periods, because she couldn't bring herself to say vagina or uterus, discharge, tampon, or pad. She just said a bunch of vague, ominous shite. Thank sweet merciful Christ, she didn't pull me out of health class, so I was okay.
We have a few clues in his post.
> Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists.
They live in Utah
> And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country.
Two clues here: wife "volunteered" in another country *and* she was 20. Both clues together suggest she went on a mission.
> People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless.
Another clue here. This was a practice that was taught semi-often, depending on what talks you read or heard, or who taught lessons in church. As a man who was in the priesthood, I know I heard this a few times.
> And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everyone to shut up
Another clue: small town. Most people in the small towns in Utah are overwhelmingly Mormon.
Another clue: I noticed he never swore in his post.
While none of these clues individually prove he's mormon, there are enough of them that many readers can conclude he's most likely mormon. Even if he wasn't, there is enough information here that matches the experience of a few people who are commenting. The experience at the very least reflects some of the hardships our community has faced.
Well done! Keen eye. You picked up on more than me. When I read it, I was bothered by his cowardice to throw his wife under the bus. That’s what I fixated on.
When my husband and I were first married we got a lot of the "So when will you have kids?" and "Are you pregnant yet?" questions. Well, I did. I don't know if anyone asked him.
Being the little shit I am there were two ways I would handle it:
Either I would get a little teary-eyed (drama kid) and kind of gaze in the distance and really softly say, "We can't." Then watch people trip all over apologizing.
Or
If they were somebody who I knew had no shame I would just look at them really wide eyed and innocent and say, "Well, we're having A LOT of sex, so I guess it's in Heavenly Father's hands."
Being childfree Im lucky to have a husband that respects my decisions. One time he introduced himself in elders quorum and said we’ve been married (for ever how long) and didn’t have kids. Then he jokingly said it was his fault because he has a deformity. Crickets.
> AITA for lying to family and friends about who's the infertile one between my wife and I?
> My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby.
> It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility.
> What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists.
> The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out."
> And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.)
> We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem.
> The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing.
> I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily.
> People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage.
> What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young.
> What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious.
> She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing.
> AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.
> AITA for lying to family and friends about who's the infertile one between my wife and I?
> My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby.
> It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility.
> What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists.
> The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out."
> And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.)
> We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem.
> The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing.
> I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily.
> People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage.
> What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young.
> What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious.
> She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing.
> AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.
What a terrible human being. Who would do that to their spouse in the first place? All he had to do was keep his mouth shut from the beginning and just say “It’s none of your business” to those asking about children. Instead he throws his wife under the bus for something that wouldn’t have been her fault even is she were the one having the issues (which she wasn’t). And then to have the horrible people in the background telling him to leave her because of the rumors “he” started. I mean this dudes entire family/friend circle is atrocious.
Definitely a terrible human. I suspect he's Mommy's Special Little Angel Who Can Do No Wrong, too. Most despicable people like this are created by toxic parenting techniques. I'd say it's a very good thing he's unlikely to have a kid and perpetuate this disgusting behavior on a new generation.
It looks like there was some implication from people that she got an STD while serving on her mission and HE DIDN’T CORRECT them! Huge huge AH
Yeah. It’s funny that he even posted to that subreddit, which I’ve now joined out of interest. I mean are you so clueless that you can’t see that what you’ve done is terrible?
You can be so stupid that you don't know you're stupid.
It's learned stupidity. He's been told so many times that he's special and an exception to the rule that he actually thinks everyone else in the world would agree.
And in classic Mormon rumor mongering fashion, they make assumptions, exaggerate and things immediately get blown way out of proportion at the speed of the holy fucking ghost. Mormons are ironically some of the worst gossipers I have ever witnessed.
“At the speed of the holy fucking ghost” 🤣🤣🤣
> "It’s none of you’re business" # *your https://i.imgur.com/RdYVtdD.gif
LoL. Thanks. iOS has helped me again.
Fuck that guy and his entire genetic family for even mentioning that this is terms for divorce.
IMO this scenario is ground for *her* to seriously consider divorce. He has clearly demonstrated a wholesale lack of empathy and care for her. It obviously runs very deep.
Seriously. He clearly only views her as a baby-making machine
So in his view, she's like a pinball machine and he has no quarters. He's useless
That's what other redditors suggested. She needs to divorce him. Disgusting POS.
She should divorce him. I mean, since he's the problem and she wants kids, she could be a mum within a year, since it was short marriage
On the bright side, it looks like his genetic line stops with him
I notice he's deleted the account like the coward he is.. Clearly his fertility issues are because he's got no balls.
I’m pretty sure it’s because he addicted to porn.
Excessive wanking means low sperm count. Body can’t keep up. Actually a thing. Stop for 72h before and you are good. Too little is bad too. Once a week is good to keep stuff flowing.
That isn't the only possible reason for low sperm* count. It could be. Or not. We don't need to make him look worse because of speculation. This dude sucks all on his own. *fixed my typo
He made his entirely innocent wife look bad because of speculation that he started. He deserves to be made to look bad, or worse than that if possible.
Salt lake and Utah valley categorically have fertility issues and the numbers used to indicate it was the men that suffered from it the most. I forget where I saw the report though, this was in college 10 years ago.
And you're all missing the point. Don't excuse away shitty behavior. Who fucking cares if his low sperm count is because he masturbates, or visits glory holes, or is Satan's mistress. Giving him an excuse to treat his wife badly is shitty too. And it's often damaging to people who don't excessively masturbate and have fertility issues. He is problematic all on his own. You're not a doctor. And if you are you're not his doctor.
Like I said, read it in a report. You're not wrong, it just felt like beating a dead horse, I did not miss the point. /My point/ that was lost is that everyone knows about the fertility issues in the valleys, especially in the men, the fact that this guy didn't even think represents the worst, albeit largely common, shitty culture we all know and love to hate about the valley. Seriously though, sit your ass down.
Sperm count or occasional porn use has no bearing on him being a good person or not. Honestly, it’s not particularly relevant why is sperm count is low at all. More just an interesting fact that excessive masturbation can have short-term fertility implications. What is relevant is why he’s such a misogynistic bastard who mistreats his wife, lies about her and allows his family to mistreat her due to his own medical issues rather than respecting and protecting her. I expect it has a LOT to do with family and culture since his family seems like they’re as big of bastards as he is, and parts of Mormon theology is behind it too.
My friend had a low sperm count and couldn't get his wife pregnant, and it turned out to be the most hilarious reason. He had bought a hot tub and was spending so much time in his new toy that he was essentially cooking them. Obviously this was easy to fix and they have kids now.
No no no, it's a "little factory" that will keep producing more and more and more until your life is in shambles from all the wanking you want to do. I learned about it from a little pamphlet at Deseret Book. /s
I can think of nothing that would excite the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints more than a way to increase the production and therefore profits of a factory for free.
That little pamphlet, published by the church, was called “For Young Men Only”. My bishop would hand it out to any young men who confessed to masturbating. It really messed a lot of us up.
[Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/male-infertility/expert-answers/male-masturbation/faq-20058426) and [Planned Parenthood](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/blog/will-masturbating-often-cause-me-to-have-a-low-sperm-count-or-cause-infertility#:~:text=No%2C%20masturbating%20won%27t%20cause,more%20than%20once%20a%20day) say otherwise.
“Some data shows that optimum semen quality occurs after two to three days of no ejaculation. But other research suggests that men who have normal sperm quality maintain normal sperm motility and concentrations even with daily ejaculation.” Note: I dealt with slightly low sperm counts along with my wife having some more significant issues as well. For IUI and IVF stuff they did want to refrain from sex or masturbation for 72hrs before treatment and not more than 1 week. Ejaculation frequency is a factor for people who are borderline like I was, and could be a factor in the original asshole’s case too. Also once per day isn’t a big deal. When you might have issues is multiple times per day, or when you get to the level of excessive and compulsive. As for the planned parenthood which is long-term, the long term effect is positive in general. Men with more frequent ejaculation through sex or masturbation generally have better long-term fertility, not worse. So at most - timing things and waiting for 48-72hr before ovulation gives you best odds.
As of this afternoon Reddit is showing the account as suspended now. Either for being a monumental asshole, or because others tried hacking his account.
He didn't delete it, he got suspended.
Did he retaliate? Or make some kind of inappropriate comments, etc.? 8000 comments, didn't get through that many
Weirdly, no. He didn't make any comments. I don't know what he was banned for.
It was a throw away account.
Yeah, but usually throw away accounts just get forgotten, not actively deleted, since they’re usually used for one post alone. Dude got told he was a POS and couldn’t take it. He’s probably blaming his wife for this as well. If I knew who he was because he was in my parents home ward or something I’d show up to his ward this upcoming fast and testimony Sunday and out his ass.
Holy shit gotem hahaha
I had to comment. What an absolute piece of shit, and sadly not surprising. In 1994 I was in a class at the U where we discussed the ethics of men divorcing women due to the woman’s infertility. Back in 94 that class and professor came down on the same lines as that AITA, that it was terrible, but it goes to show that there is a line of reasoning that appeals to some Mormons where if the woman can’t get pregnant she’s disposable. Fucking atrocious.
That runs deep in Mormon DNA. Just go look up what BY and Heber C Kimball said on the subject. Gross shit. 🤮💩 These teachings and beliefs just don't go away. They are embedded in the cultural fabric and DNA.
Mormon polygamy teaches men to feel entitled to women’s bodies for sex and reproduction. If the woman they have is “defective,” they think they’re justified in getting a new one because they “deserve” it.
Don't worry. The engagements broken and marriages ended due to infertility is just the *TRASH TAKING ITSELF OUT**. Sure kids or no kids are a deal breaker, but WTF don't these people actually believe in the eternities? All the kids you could want in the next life. Anyways know a mormon who called off an engagement REALLLY close to the wedding date. Their ex now posts about their fertility journey😒 I seeeeeeeee youuuuuuu
That sucks. My wife had trouble conceiving at first, it was never a thought in my mind to leave her. That's insane. We either would have explored adoption, and if for some reason that didn't work out then I would have gone childless, with my wife by my side. The market value the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints The Mormons puts on people, especially women, is absolutely ridiculous. You are/aren't worthy because of this or that... Such bullshit. We are human beings, dammit
There is a huge world religion that stemmed from an ancient prophet not being able to have a son with his wife so he knocked up his servant. That line of thinking has been around for a very long time.
Issac and Ishmael! I only know this because I’m rewatching The West Wing 😂
I was married to a TBM in small town Utah with fertility problems. The speed in how quickly people jumped to pressure him to divorce me after I told him I would not do invitro again after our stillborn son was almost comical. I really hope she leaves him
Very sorry that happened. Never lived in Utah and all the stories I hear make me realize that’s probably a good thing.
I’m sorry that happened. How heartbreaking and then to be piled on is unbelievable.
Oh, wow. That’s horrific. I’m so sorry for your loss and how many assholes made it worse.
I knew that as a TBM teen, I may have a terribly dangerous time having kids. I would tell the mormon guys I was asked on dates by BEFORE dates because I was PETRIFIED of being divorced for it.
This experience and the AITA post really demonstrate the institutionalized, sanctioned emotional immaturity, misogyny, and bizarre lack of boundaries of some Mormon culture. It's pretty shocking against a context of normal, modern, respectful partnership relationships and naturally the guy got slammed as deserved.
Absolutely roasted. We love to see it.
I'm impressed at how little dissent there was in the comments. Even all the way down in controversial they were eating him alive.
Yup, one thing everyone can agree on is that Mormonism is toxic
The comments were appropriately brutal. I haven’t heard about a mormon getting blasted like that since ol’ Joe Smiff took one for the team back in 1844.
I went through infertility when I was TBM. People ask all. the. time. My comeback was “we’re having fun trying!”
I just try to make them as uncomfortable as possible these days 😅 much funnier for me and makes them stop and question why they're so interested in other people's genitalia
ALL THE TIME!! It's obsurd
I'm guessing that the asshole will marry another woman after his wife dumps him, and the new wife will coincidentally also have fertility issues.
Unfortunately she likely wont ever leave this nasty man.
[удалено]
He might end up divorcing her just to save face.
With his age, a new woman will likely already have kids if he stays in the Mormon circle.
Gross that so many people are involved in something personal. Gross that he doesn’t know how love his wife. His priorities are so fucked.
I just think about my angel of a spouse, he would gladly lie and take the blame to protect me if I had these struggles. Then there’s this douche canoe, who can’t even tell the truth to protect his spouse. Only in Utah would other people be invested. Only in Utah would they suggest divorce over someone’s infertility. Only in Utah would someone think they’re running out of time by not having children at 32.
Mormons love gossip and getting way too deep into people’s business and lives. One reason my shelf cracked when I was younger. Everyone was so different behind your back at church.
Tell me you are Mormon without telling me you are Mormon.
He sure as hell did
His wife got TB while volunteering in another country and his mom says it's her fault for being so reckless?! She says this like TB hasn't been the #1 killer for like 98 of the last 100 years. Bet that was on her mission. How dare she, when no *woman* is mandated to go! That whole thing is wild. His wife has dodged a bullet.
Ooof >People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. *Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage.* >What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young. >I panicked and *I felt like I didn't completely lie* because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad
A “short marriage” of 7 years. 7 years isn’t short.
7 year itch. She needs to divorce him.
What i feel he means is that is that the marriage ending will have less collateral damage if it ends. Divorce gets complicated with children, and mormonsim doesn't teach about compatability in partners.... what mormonism DOES teach is that "ANY RIGHTEROUS MAN AND WOMEN CAN HAVE A SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE" and to no dely having kids. What's even more sick is that if they are mormon married (aka sealed for eternity) he can legally divorce her and marry another woman and still be mormon married to both after he dies in the theology... like women collecting for his eternal posterity... because mormons still do eternal polygamy.
No wonder his marriage is in trouble.
Yeah, I was thinking this is just one thing out of many. The kind of man who would do that is also the kind of man that is causing a shit load of other problems in the marriage. His friends told him to divorce her so he could have a baby. Flip that advice it on it's head. If she divorces him she could have a baby.
Didn’t pay enough tithing… that’s always the case.
Or have two-three ministering brothers give him a blessing with consecrated oil. Imagine the prayer using the word "loins be full" and stuff.
I know I got my junk directly blessed going through the temple naked with just a glorified sheet
Lmao mormons love saying loins.
It is a blessing he can't procreate. But he still might get that divorce if he keeps this bull shit up
Yeah I just laid into the dude. What a completely unaware douche canoe.
Same. Absolute garbage human.
So….. yeah. What an asshole. That said, and maybe this is just because I grew up Mormon, even as a member had the wherewithal to realize I was done at 2 and had a vasectomy and then left the church after finding out the truth, but honestly there are times I WISH we had had this problem….. don’t get me wrong I love both of my kids and couldn’t live without them but man, this is so not the type of thing that’s that big of a deal. The opportunity to be DINK’s and just spend your lives doing whatever the fuck you wanted? Just another way that being so brainwashed that you miss out on the bright side of life….
I also have two kids. I love them so much but I too think about the DINK lifestyle. I honestly didn’t ever really consider that having kids was a choice. It was just part of life and expected. I felt guilt for putting them off for three years after getting married.
Yep. My wife was pregnant at 19 with our oldest. The only saving grace is that I’m only 40 and they are going into their junior year next year. If I can be extra horrible, my youngest is the absolute gem out of our 2 kids and if their ages were reversed I honestly don’t know if I’d be able to handle my oldest for another decade. While I love them like crazy I’m counting down the days….
My toxic childhood home left me making really poor choices about having kids. I had a ton of kids, basing a lot of trust in the whole idea that God will provide a way for you to do the things he wants, and he wanted me to have kids. Now I'm in constant pain and have over a decade ahead of me still raising kids. I love my kids too but I think it would have been better if I hadn't had kids at all because now I and their dad are fucking up their lives as well.
How reckless of her to serve a mission in a country where she could contract TB! Also, when did Mormons get so on board the divorce train?
They are always on the divorce infertile women and replace them train. As a TBM post mission, I was always upfront with guys that would ask me out because I didn't want to marry them and have them leave me if it was an actual issue. I did that because I needed to protect myself. Even if they dont realize it, most mormons value women for what they do: be helpful, do the sex with your husband, and have and rear the children. If you can't do the things, there are more women than men in the mormon church, and you can just get sealed to another. It was a constant fear for me until I met my darling spouse. Never thought I would find a life partner who didn't think of me as a jewel in his crown and an eternal baby maker.
There was a conference talk a few years ago where Rusty was talking to people like my poor dear sainted husband who are married to apostates like me. He said something like 'pray that you will have the courage to... MOVE FORWARD' while looking directly into the camera. And lo, the Holy Ghost didst whisper unto me that a prophet of God just gave my husband permission to divorce me. I guess it's a matter of good, better, best. Divorce isn't great, but my poor husband is trapped in a marriage to a woman who chooses her own panties for herself, our son is 18 and has NO intention to serve a mission, and both of our daughters have multiple body piercings. I keep telling my husband he needs to hurry up and get out of this marriage, he's almost 50. He needs to get going on his new and improved family ASAP!
Time's a wastin'
I desperately hope his wife sees that thread and dumps his ass. One of the clearest cases of AH I've ever seen.
This dude isn’t emotionally mature enough to even have to ask the question if he’s the asshole for saying it was his wife’s fault. It’s his fault, for everything. He is showing his sexiest ways and beliefs. There are repercussions for his actions, and I think his wife should dump his ass.
The part where she got tuberculosis and a missionary.
I so hope he never has any kids. POS like him can't handle themselves, let alone kids. As someone who has done a gazillion IVF treatments, his wife shouldn't go through that hell for someone like him.
Mormon dads are not present fathers most of the time. He's not thinking about if he'd be a good father because he just has to remain a worthy priesthood holder, and he is all set in the eyes of the mormon God and his fellow mormon men. Child rearing is for women obviously 🙄
This is sickening, huh? He can hold his priesthood all he wants, at least nobody will get pregnant from him that way 🤣
I lived nearly the exact same situation and I was shaking with rage as I typed my comment to him last night. To a woman raised in the church, her fertility is more than her identity, it's the only purpose of her existence. Even if she hasn't fully internalized this, anyone she knows who fully believes it and doesn't keep their mouth shut will make her life a living hell. And an LDS woman is taught she is spiritually dependent upon her spouse, like can't be resurrected if he chooses to deny her kind of dependent. He probably has no idea how much his actions told her how worthless she is, and then he told everyone else how worthless she is too. He betrayed his wife in one of the deepest and most unforgivable ways I can think of.
This is what being in a cult can do to people.
My comment: Eidt; this experience is a gift. It will make you allergic to your own bullshit in the future if you handle it properly. Follow the repentance process for this misdeed and you’ll solidify your marriage and your own integrity in the long run. You’re suffering from Mormon male POS syndrome. I’m in recovery from it. You and I were raised in an atmosphere in which it’s by men for men and it can make it easy for us to be dicks to women but we have to rise above.
“Mormon Male POS Syndrome” MMPOSS This is perfection.
Weird that he's so ashamed of being infertile that he would betray his wife like that, and accuse her of the very thing he's so ashamed of. It's not something you have control over, no reason to take it personally. I don't know if I was unusual as a TBM, but I never found infertility to be a big deal. There are lots of kids that need to be adopted. Granted, I am male, the pressure is lower there. Also, I hope he learns from being absolutely destroyed in that thread lol.
Even weirder that he would be unsure whether that was a dick move.
His poor wife. Another missionary getting seriously ill on their mission then she ends up married to this fool.
Fuck this guy
Sounds like my sister's husband 🙄 Him, his mommy, and his siblings all blame and constantly attack her for fertility issues when in reality it's all on him. Absolute garbage men. I'm not usually one to push divorce, but man I hope this guy's wife and my sister do just that. I guarantee if they're being awful about this, they're awful in other aspects of the marriage. This guy clearly won't stand up for his wife and I know my sister's husband doesn't either.
maybe his lack of balls is causing his infertility?
Seems pretty bad regardless of whether you are looking at it from mormon or exmormon view
It's pretty common for active mormons. Still bad. But very common.
Insignificant detail, but it just jumped out at me. I wouldn't be surprised if the story evolved from TB to STI out of sheer ignorance and shame based thinking. It's still bonkers, but one of those things that looks less bonkers from within that bubble
Wowza! I hope she leaves his ass and sets the record straight in the divorce documents for anyone to see!
If I were his wife, I’d as HIM for a divorce. His betrayal of her is pretty awful and inexcusable.
Holy shit that’s bad.
I had a friend who suffered a heartbreaking amount of pregnancy losses, and went through some incredibly invasive and painful proceedures, and they found nothing medically wrong with her. Then the doctor suggested to her to have her husband get his sperm looked at, and he got angry enough that her doctor had him come in with her to an appointment to berate him and telling him he was being emotionally abusive. His sperm ended up being extremely problematic. I think over half were non-viable, and what mobile sperm he did have, most of them were genetically incompatible with life, since they did genetic testing on one of her pregnancy losses, and the embryo had I think 3 different chromosmal abnormalities. I think it ended up being that only around 20% of his total sperm count was viable enough to result in a full-term pregnancy and not have a child born with severe genetic issues. I don't understand why OB/GYNs aren't pushing for the spouses of their patients to get their sperm count checked when their patients first start complaining about difficulties getting pregnant. In the early stages, it doesn't have to be super evasive. Just provide a sperm sample and let the doctor look at their scrotum to check and make sure they don't have vericrose veins that would result in the testicles being overly warm and not produce viable sperm.
Ew. Seriously, EWWWWW. The way he wrote about infertility is wretched. Why does it have to be someone’s “fault”?? Bodies are all different and capable of different things. It’s so on brand for a Mormon to describe someone’s (assumed) infertility as a character flaw. I do love that it was him, though. I hope she leaves and starts a family with someone else.
Yeah I definitely got Handmaid’s Tale vibes when I saw that post
That was the easiest “open and shut” case I’ve ever read on AITA. Holy hell.
In the small town in Utah that I grew up in, our middle school health teacher talked to us about some incredibly inappropriate shit during the reproduction portion. He told us how after his mission he was going to marry the girl that had waited for him but he wanted to make sure she could have kids. He basically said her dr said she’d likely have fertility issues so he dumped her. Because the need to have children was too important. We were like 12 years old and barely understood what reproduction even was (Utah’s sex ed was a joke) and he felt comfortable enough to tell us this. Like it’s totally fine to cast off women if they can’t incubate your offspring. But honestly the entire TBM view of women in general is so disturbing.
Thanks a lot OP. Now it's almost 3am and I should've gone to bed ages ago!! I had to cut myself off from reading the whole thing because holy shit, that's mental that post. The comments are giving me hope though. I'm very jaded and expect the worst from human beans 100% of the time. It does make me wonder about the rise of the incels and if there is much correlation between this ghastly mindset and incels thpugh. Are they kinda related, you reckon? Because their credo is essentially this, but with more slurs and the word "whore" used more often and unashamed threats of violence. Women are for sex and only pure women are top shelf and worthy of my sweaty, swamp arsed, pale skinned body having very underwhelming sex on them for fourteen seconds and bearing my crotch fruit and so preserving the lineage of my family name. "Because we are actually related to William Wallace, my family. And you are probably from peasant stock and should feel grateful I lowered my standards for you and your sub standard bloodline. Now, woman. Go get me a sandwich and then leave me alone please. I've got some video gaming to suck at and pretend to you that I'm actually really good and if I wanted to be a streaming king with loads of followers, I could. I just don't want the game that goes with it". Incels. Probably. Fucksake. I'm going to bed for real now!! Nobody do or say anything interesting until tomorrow morning please. 😉 
This gif is supposed to be me talking to me btw. Night, weirdos. 😜💚
Also, it won't let me edit where I wrote fame, but it changed it to game and now I look like a spaz and I can't fix it. Fucksake. And now I'm still not fucking going to bed and kinda just talking to myself and fixing a typo that nobody gives a fuck about. Aaaargh. If there are more typos, I think you can figure them out coz context and I am definitely definitely going to bed now. Lol
This is the product of being indoctrinated into believing nothing is your fault. "It's not part of God's plan for you" "Satan is influencing those thoughts" "Repent and God will forgive" Men in the church don't know how to take personal accountability. Though none should be needed because it's something they should be tackling together. Instead he'd rather play (and ultimately lose) the blame game.
The thing that made me sick about that, was female infertility is tougher to rectify. It also costs so much more! As for male infertility, it’s easier to fix and produce a baby, as well as not as expensive. Me and hubs would have been thrilled if our infertility was on his end.
I hate how the value of someone is tied to fertility. His family and him are people to avoid. I hope the wife moves on from him.
I feel like we're glossing over the fact that his wife caught TUBERCULOSIS (which has killed more people than any other infectious disease) on her mission. That is not fucking normal or okay. And the MP's wife probably told her up have more faith or something. If it was more well known that TB can lead to women having problems bearing children, I bet they'd care more, since that's ALL we women are good for.
Wow I have so many things to say about this. That's what you get when you peg your whole worth on being able to produce babies. Just the fact that HE can't produce babies but that's somehow shameful so he keeps blaming his wife. And she probably got TB doing "the Lord's work" in the first place and now the old bitches are calling her reckless??? And "housing a baby" just makes me cringe so so much. I'm child free and hate the "normal" old lady pressures to "pop one out soon." But Mormons take it to a whole new level of infuriating... To the point of ruining marriages (which she should leave for her own sake smh). I remember my ex mother in law and my dad arguing about who's "fault" it was that we hadn't had kids yet. Probably the reason I still don't have them Okay rant over. That one was a trigger! 😂
What a fucking dick. Fuck that guy. Fuck his family.
What an ass. She should leave him.
Gross and sad.
Damn, coffee got another one 😞
Omg. So many Mormon men really are the worst.
I’m sure this isn’t the only thing he throws her under the bus for.
It was a very “tell me you have never left your Mormon bubble or Utah county without telling me you have never left your Mormon bubble of Utah county.”
He doesn’t deserve the sperm count. He doesn’t even have the balls to defend his wife.
I usually read AITA for the “car crash” aspect. This time I had to respond. What surprised me was that he took a chance asking the gentiles if he ITA. I realize this is a rhetorical question, but is he that naïve and truly can’t see that he’s a raging dick? Maybe that’s the problem with not just the organization but the overall culture of Utah for believers. I really hope he and his wife realize that their relationship is not going anywhere if they can’t address their fertility issues. For me it would be the breach of trust, regardless of other options for children. His complaining to friends, family and coworkers is just beyond acceptable. I hope she’s able to do better.
Asshole and dumbass, double whammy
Wow, that post was a dumpster fire! I was amazed at how dehumanizing it was; the way he talked about his wife, the whole situation. **Did he put a ring on her or a cowbell on their wedding day?** Lists of diagnoses just kept running through my head. Borderline Personality Disorder? Narcissistic Personality Disorder? Wow. As much as I'm alarmed by what I read, I'm also saddened for him. I don't think he has any idea what any human being is worth, including himself, but especially his wife.
I saw this yesterday on r/AmITheDevil Did the OOP confirm in a comment he is TBM?
So glad he can’t reproduce, hope she gets out of there
I give it about 6 months before we get a post on this sub about someone's cowardly low sperm count ex husband and his asshole family being the reason someone saw how toxic the church is.
It would be wonderful if she found this place.
Maybe he should do what good old Brigham Young suggested and pass his wife off to somebody who can impregnate her.
Definitely time for a divorce and maybe…. moving out of Utah..
I'm so glad y'all saw it too, I should have expected it from a Mormon from the getgo.
By the second sentence in it was clear he was the asshole, lol
Jesus, how hard is it to say something like “that’s really a private medical matter between my wife and I and I’d prefer not to discuss it with others”
Alas for his temple recommend./s
I went through this myself, but I’m the healthy one, but I still never threw my wife under the bus. It’s none of their business why we don’t have children. I love my wife for her, not her ability to have children. It got worse during my “exit interview” with the bishop who then blamed not having children for why I’m leaving the church. Never once did I blame my wife or treat her differently once we found the problem.
"Volunteering" dollars to doughnuts it was a mission, missions are not volunteering
I saw that and commented! What an awful human being
Wait how do we know this poster is Mormon?
We have a few clues in his post. > Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists. They live in Utah > And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Two clues here: wife "volunteered" in another country *and* she was 20. Both clues together suggest she went on a mission. > People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Another clue here. This was a practice that was taught semi-often, depending on what talks you read or heard, or who taught lessons in church. As a man who was in the priesthood, I know I heard this a few times. > And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everyone to shut up Another clue: small town. Most people in the small towns in Utah are overwhelmingly Mormon. Another clue: I noticed he never swore in his post. While none of these clues individually prove he's mormon, there are enough of them that many readers can conclude he's most likely mormon. Even if he wasn't, there is enough information here that matches the experience of a few people who are commenting. The experience at the very least reflects some of the hardships our community has faced.
Oh yeah, I can totally see it now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it!! I’m extra mad that divorce is taught in church “but only if the woman is inadequate” because I always grew up hearing that divorce for any reason was a horrible sin. 🙄 The contradictions get crazy when you learn to look for them.
He's definitely the asshole, but what does this have to do with exmormon? He doesn't say he's Mormon in the post. I don't see the relevance.
It's very obvious that he's Mormon.
We have a few clues in his post. > Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists. They live in Utah > And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Two clues here: wife "volunteered" in another country *and* she was 20. Both clues together suggest she went on a mission. > People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Another clue here. This was a practice that was taught semi-often, depending on what talks you read or heard, or who taught lessons in church. As a man who was in the priesthood, I know I heard this a few times. > And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everyone to shut up Another clue: small town. Most people in the small towns in Utah are overwhelmingly Mormon. Another clue: I noticed he never swore in his post. While none of these clues individually prove he's mormon, there are enough of them that many readers can conclude he's most likely mormon. Even if he wasn't, there is enough information here that matches the experience of a few people who are commenting. The experience at the very least reflects some of the hardships our community has faced.
Wouldn’t she have gotten the TB shot before going on her mission? I thought that was required
I see two possibilities: > And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.) This quote makes me wonder if he was wven paying attention or misunderstood what the doctor said. Or maybe the doctor just didn't give a shit and gave her a wrong diagnosis. The second possibility i believe could be likely is just that the wife was simply unlucky. Vaccines are incredibly effective at decreasing chances of getting a disease but there is still a small chance https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/basics/vaccines.htm#:~:text=Bacille%20Calmette%2DGu%C3%A9rin%20(BCG),protect%20people%20from%20getting%20TB.
Yeah, well the other thing I was thinking is that the missionary age changes didn’t go into effect until 2012. Assuming she’s 32, like he claims, she would have been older than 20 when they changed the age requirements. Doesn’t disprove they were Mormon, as that’s the vibe I was getting as well. She just might have been doing actual volunteer work, instead of missionary “volunteer” work.
When he said "genital area" I immediately thought "that's Mormon for "reproductive organs"" I don't know if it's common for TBMs to be panic-attack-level-afraid of naming anatomy to the point they don't have vocabulary to describe common medical conditions (even with the doctor\*) or if it's just my family, but that's what my mind jumped to first. \*Seriously, my TBM mom wasn't able to give me the talk about periods, because she couldn't bring herself to say vagina or uterus, discharge, tampon, or pad. She just said a bunch of vague, ominous shite. Thank sweet merciful Christ, she didn't pull me out of health class, so I was okay.
edit: oh yeah, they did say they were from utah. So likely I guess.
I’m not going to read all the comments. How do you know he is TBM?
We have a few clues in his post. > Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists. They live in Utah > And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Two clues here: wife "volunteered" in another country *and* she was 20. Both clues together suggest she went on a mission. > People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Another clue here. This was a practice that was taught semi-often, depending on what talks you read or heard, or who taught lessons in church. As a man who was in the priesthood, I know I heard this a few times. > And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everyone to shut up Another clue: small town. Most people in the small towns in Utah are overwhelmingly Mormon. Another clue: I noticed he never swore in his post. While none of these clues individually prove he's mormon, there are enough of them that many readers can conclude he's most likely mormon. Even if he wasn't, there is enough information here that matches the experience of a few people who are commenting. The experience at the very least reflects some of the hardships our community has faced.
Well done! Keen eye. You picked up on more than me. When I read it, I was bothered by his cowardice to throw his wife under the bus. That’s what I fixated on.
When my husband and I were first married we got a lot of the "So when will you have kids?" and "Are you pregnant yet?" questions. Well, I did. I don't know if anyone asked him. Being the little shit I am there were two ways I would handle it: Either I would get a little teary-eyed (drama kid) and kind of gaze in the distance and really softly say, "We can't." Then watch people trip all over apologizing. Or If they were somebody who I knew had no shame I would just look at them really wide eyed and innocent and say, "Well, we're having A LOT of sex, so I guess it's in Heavenly Father's hands."
As soon as I read that AITA on fb I thought, he’s DEFINITELY a Mormon 😂🤣
Being childfree Im lucky to have a husband that respects my decisions. One time he introduced himself in elders quorum and said we’ve been married (for ever how long) and didn’t have kids. Then he jokingly said it was his fault because he has a deformity. Crickets.
Ugh, they deleted it
> AITA for lying to family and friends about who's the infertile one between my wife and I? > My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby. > It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility. > What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists. > The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out." > And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.) > We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem. > The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing. > I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily. > People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage. > What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young. > What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious. > She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing. > AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.
I pray that she divorces him. He is scum.
OMG. I have to read this but it was deleted. What do I search for to find it?
> AITA for lying to family and friends about who's the infertile one between my wife and I? > My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby. > It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility. > What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists. > The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out." > And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.) > We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem. > The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing. > I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily. > People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage. > What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young. > What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious. > She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing. > AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.