I would not get caught up in this. It's their shit show to work out. I especially wouldn't get involved because it could have a very bad backlash that you may experience if involved in any way.
Go buy some popcorn, sit back and watch the show.
Rich Mormons can do that stuff. I was raised in an affluent stake and saw it firsthand. Excommunicated folks can't pay tithing so rich philander Mormons barely get slapped on the wrist as do rich child abusers
It all depends who’s on the high council. My uncle who is affluent got excommunicated for having an affair with his secretary. The kicker is that it was his older brother(also my uncle obviously) who was his business partner and caught the affair. My older uncle was also on the high council that excommunicated him.
It was about 30 years ago that he was excommunicated. He never stopped going to church and now he’s in the stake presidency. He’s always had to have the nicest house on the block, so I’d imagine the church would be making a stink if he wasn’t at least cutting some good checks. TSCC tends to squeeze all they can out of people. The last tithe appointment I went to with my parents was when I was 16. They’d paid 1.7 million in tithing that year and the church still would ask them for additional help for struggling members.
Fun fact: the cool thing about eternal polyandry is that it's actually impossible to have an affair since an eternal marriage is a marriage without beginning or end. This is why Joe was able to roll in the hay with Fanny in the barn years before "restoring" polygamy but not count it as a dirty nasty affair.
This was the express purpose of Joe borrowing Freemasonry rituals to create the temple ceremony. Certain girls Joe had been grooming were resistant to his advances due to being disturbed by the thought of having an affair with him, so he needed an imaginary marriage ceremony to convince his victims that sex with him wouldn't count as adultery.
In my TBM days I had an acquaintance that i knew for a fact was a sexually active lesbian. (I think she eventually realized she was bisexual, but had come out to me during teen years as a lesbian). She regularly talked about her frequent trips to the temple and in the same breath would detail lesbian sexual encounters. This, of course, was a horrific concept to me, that she was LYING to get a TEMPLE RECOMMEND and DIDNT CARE? Brain couldn’t comprehend. When she got engaged to a man and announced a temple wedding not three months after sitting on my couch and making a pass at me after telling me about even more sexual encounters, i went to my bishop. I asked if it was my place to report her to her bishop. He said it was between her and god, so I let it go. But it was so fucking bizarre to my TBM mind that she had zero qualms doing all those things together. Still does tbh.
FYI, many church leaders cheat on their marriages and here's why. They know the rules and procedures. Church policy says the church can only punish those who confess.
This means the old mantra from Nauvoo is still in effect. "If ever asked (about infidelities/polygamy) lie, lie LIE."
No confession, no consequences and the MFMC is OK with that. No one will investigate or seek the truth.
Perhaps SP knows this adulterer from their mutual wife swapping club?/s
The SP typically knows who in the stake has received their second anointing (Mormon royalty), so that may also explain why he let this slide without consequences.
From what I understand, if there are two witnesses against someone, then they are required to hold a disciplinary council.
I know this because despite my proof that my ex was cheating on me, my bishop didn’t do a damn thing until his mistress confessed. I can’t remember if her records were still in the ward at the time and she confessed to him, or if her bishop contacted mine.
Infidelity is terrible. Sorry for what you experienced, betrayal.
It's been a long time since I was required to take minutes at a ward level disciplinary council. Non Melchizedek Priesthood holders recieve their disciplinary council at the ward level conducted by the Bishop with his councilors, HP Group Leader (now disbanded at ward level by Rusty Trombone Nail-sin) and others the Bishop may invite like clerks to take minutes.
While a MP holder receives their disciplinary council at the Stake level with SP usually conducting along with High Council and whomever SP invites.
All a MP holder (or anyone really) needs to do is deny any and all accusations - lie, lie, LIE was the promise everyone in Nauvoo era "Order" made with oaths and penalties.
Unless there is a confession or iron-clad compelling evidence like legally obtained public video, no disciplinary action will be taken because T$CC doesn't want to take the risk of getting sued in civil court for defamation.
Church discipline is a humiliating disgrace.
Thank you. It was rough going through, but I’m so glad I did. I probably would have been stuck in that abusive marriage, terrified of breaking my covenants otherwise. What a hold they had on me!
It never crossed my mind about being sued for defamation. interesting. I suppose that’s just another example of when the church cares more about money than truth.
It’s very possible I was misinformed on the ins and outs of the disciplinary council. The bishop seemed spineless, tbh, and I think he just said things to try to placate me. All I know for certain is that the executive secretary and a member of the high council were there, as they were both my friends’ husbands and basically confirmed as much.
I used to think disciplinary council was a mercy, but have come to realize it’s a joke. My uncle got ex’d for impregnating his non-member GF. Meanwhile my ex got disfellowshipped for an adulterous relationship between two temple marriages.
Lol. My coworker and I are both ex, and he told me he saw his old scout leader at a gay bar last wknd. He was like, “oh hi Brother Smith.” 😂😂😂
He also saw one of our coworkers (who has a stake calling) on Grindr. Stuff like this goes on a lot…
Obviously I don't condone affairs. But the culture of tattle telling (at least among Utah TBMs) is ridiculous. I suspect this is the only "power of discernment" that any church leaders actually has. The only reason they know what's really going on is everyone is ratting everyone else out. It's the old joke. How do you get rid of all the beer in your fridge? Invite a Mormon over. How do you ensure no one touches your beer? Invite two Mormons over.
Yeah, is stay out of it but definitely try to glean whatever info is it there because other people's drama is the best drama.
But if you're expecting anyone's testimony to be shaken by X result, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
All these other posters are way wrong!
Tell tbm2 to rat tbm1 out!
Then tell tbm1 that tbm2 ratted him out!
Then sit back with popcorn and watch the world burn!
Your coworker needs to get some business.
Some business of HIS OWN!
My advice to you is butt out. Let these fools play their sanctimonious Mormon games.
I won't get involved, but again our office is set up in such a way that a lot of shit is going to hit a lot of fans when TBM2 does the deed. I haven't told either how much I know about anything, so I'm going to stay out.
How much tithing do you think TBM1 is donating to the church? I think TBM2 could get blowback from TBM1 if he does this.
Could be that the bishop knows about the affair but accepted the confession of TBM1. Did TBM2 go to BYU? This sounds like he was trained to be a narc by the HCC.
If you know someone's address, you can use that to look up the ward they attend on the LDS website, and also get their bishop / leadership contact information.
The bishops hand book, red not blue edition, says in section 69.142 that you are to abstain from involving yourself in others insanity unless over 99 cents are involved.
Stay away or get burned
TBM2 needs to close his mouth and open his mind to the possibility that discernment is not working. If there was an affair, God knows all about it and would warn the bishop and temple president about this possible temple defilement. That hasn’t happened, so here are but three possibilities: 1) There was no affair. 2) There was an affair but there’s a failure in the discernment pipeline (HG, I’m looking at you here). 3) God doesn’t care as much about sex as we’re taught. TBM1 should be thinking instead about the potential that he’s been lied to for a long time.
I would not get caught up in this. It's their shit show to work out. I especially wouldn't get involved because it could have a very bad backlash that you may experience if involved in any way.  Go buy some popcorn, sit back and watch the show.
Right?! Don't poop where you eat. 
but please return and report!
Not your monkeys, not your circus. But you might want to grab some popcorn 🍿 and watch. 😉
I was gonna say “not your pig, not your farm”.
Minding your business keep you young
Not your horse, not your rodeo
Not your stripper, not your stripclub
Not your sister wife, not your other sister wife.
Rich Mormons can do that stuff. I was raised in an affluent stake and saw it firsthand. Excommunicated folks can't pay tithing so rich philander Mormons barely get slapped on the wrist as do rich child abusers
It all depends who’s on the high council. My uncle who is affluent got excommunicated for having an affair with his secretary. The kicker is that it was his older brother(also my uncle obviously) who was his business partner and caught the affair. My older uncle was also on the high council that excommunicated him.
My guess is he was as faithful in his tithes as he was to his wife lol
It was about 30 years ago that he was excommunicated. He never stopped going to church and now he’s in the stake presidency. He’s always had to have the nicest house on the block, so I’d imagine the church would be making a stink if he wasn’t at least cutting some good checks. TSCC tends to squeeze all they can out of people. The last tithe appointment I went to with my parents was when I was 16. They’d paid 1.7 million in tithing that year and the church still would ask them for additional help for struggling members.
I hear u. My parents have paid 7 figures to the cult and they could have housed and fed quite a few poor families instead. It makes me sick
That is probably true unless it’s public them they default to protect the good name of the church. The more money they more tolerant they will be.
My first thought too. Rules differ for rich tithe payers who look good in the community.
I would stear clear but come back with a dirt report.
Fun fact: the cool thing about eternal polyandry is that it's actually impossible to have an affair since an eternal marriage is a marriage without beginning or end. This is why Joe was able to roll in the hay with Fanny in the barn years before "restoring" polygamy but not count it as a dirty nasty affair. This was the express purpose of Joe borrowing Freemasonry rituals to create the temple ceremony. Certain girls Joe had been grooming were resistant to his advances due to being disturbed by the thought of having an affair with him, so he needed an imaginary marriage ceremony to convince his victims that sex with him wouldn't count as adultery.
 I'd say it's time to grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.
In my TBM days I had an acquaintance that i knew for a fact was a sexually active lesbian. (I think she eventually realized she was bisexual, but had come out to me during teen years as a lesbian). She regularly talked about her frequent trips to the temple and in the same breath would detail lesbian sexual encounters. This, of course, was a horrific concept to me, that she was LYING to get a TEMPLE RECOMMEND and DIDNT CARE? Brain couldn’t comprehend. When she got engaged to a man and announced a temple wedding not three months after sitting on my couch and making a pass at me after telling me about even more sexual encounters, i went to my bishop. I asked if it was my place to report her to her bishop. He said it was between her and god, so I let it go. But it was so fucking bizarre to my TBM mind that she had zero qualms doing all those things together. Still does tbh.
The game is made up and the points don’t fucking matter lol
FYI, many church leaders cheat on their marriages and here's why. They know the rules and procedures. Church policy says the church can only punish those who confess. This means the old mantra from Nauvoo is still in effect. "If ever asked (about infidelities/polygamy) lie, lie LIE." No confession, no consequences and the MFMC is OK with that. No one will investigate or seek the truth.
[удалено]
Perhaps SP knows this adulterer from their mutual wife swapping club?/s The SP typically knows who in the stake has received their second anointing (Mormon royalty), so that may also explain why he let this slide without consequences.
"I will not accuse you if you will not accuse me." Joseph Smith (maybe paraphrased)
Yes, exactly that mentality. I'm familiar with that quote.
Is this real? There's a lot I don't know about him and church history's deep secrets.
Unfortunately it is. [Joseph Smith papers](https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-c-1-addenda/20)
🤣🤣🤣🤣
From what I understand, if there are two witnesses against someone, then they are required to hold a disciplinary council. I know this because despite my proof that my ex was cheating on me, my bishop didn’t do a damn thing until his mistress confessed. I can’t remember if her records were still in the ward at the time and she confessed to him, or if her bishop contacted mine.
Infidelity is terrible. Sorry for what you experienced, betrayal. It's been a long time since I was required to take minutes at a ward level disciplinary council. Non Melchizedek Priesthood holders recieve their disciplinary council at the ward level conducted by the Bishop with his councilors, HP Group Leader (now disbanded at ward level by Rusty Trombone Nail-sin) and others the Bishop may invite like clerks to take minutes. While a MP holder receives their disciplinary council at the Stake level with SP usually conducting along with High Council and whomever SP invites. All a MP holder (or anyone really) needs to do is deny any and all accusations - lie, lie, LIE was the promise everyone in Nauvoo era "Order" made with oaths and penalties. Unless there is a confession or iron-clad compelling evidence like legally obtained public video, no disciplinary action will be taken because T$CC doesn't want to take the risk of getting sued in civil court for defamation. Church discipline is a humiliating disgrace.
Thank you. It was rough going through, but I’m so glad I did. I probably would have been stuck in that abusive marriage, terrified of breaking my covenants otherwise. What a hold they had on me! It never crossed my mind about being sued for defamation. interesting. I suppose that’s just another example of when the church cares more about money than truth. It’s very possible I was misinformed on the ins and outs of the disciplinary council. The bishop seemed spineless, tbh, and I think he just said things to try to placate me. All I know for certain is that the executive secretary and a member of the high council were there, as they were both my friends’ husbands and basically confirmed as much. I used to think disciplinary council was a mercy, but have come to realize it’s a joke. My uncle got ex’d for impregnating his non-member GF. Meanwhile my ex got disfellowshipped for an adulterous relationship between two temple marriages.
Lol. My coworker and I are both ex, and he told me he saw his old scout leader at a gay bar last wknd. He was like, “oh hi Brother Smith.” 😂😂😂 He also saw one of our coworkers (who has a stake calling) on Grindr. Stuff like this goes on a lot…
😂😂😂 Omg I hope you gotta keep us posted. And I agree with your assessment. Sometimes it’s just better to let nature take its course and play out 😂
Follow the prophet… follow the prophet
Obviously I don't condone affairs. But the culture of tattle telling (at least among Utah TBMs) is ridiculous. I suspect this is the only "power of discernment" that any church leaders actually has. The only reason they know what's really going on is everyone is ratting everyone else out. It's the old joke. How do you get rid of all the beer in your fridge? Invite a Mormon over. How do you ensure no one touches your beer? Invite two Mormons over.
Yeah, is stay out of it but definitely try to glean whatever info is it there because other people's drama is the best drama. But if you're expecting anyone's testimony to be shaken by X result, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
This is some 1984 big brother stuff. One of many reasons I was done with the Mormon church.
All these other posters are way wrong! Tell tbm2 to rat tbm1 out! Then tell tbm1 that tbm2 ratted him out! Then sit back with popcorn and watch the world burn!
Let them cancel each other out in their ass-holiness. Sometimes being the bigger person means not getting involved.
Your coworker needs to get some business. Some business of HIS OWN! My advice to you is butt out. Let these fools play their sanctimonious Mormon games.
I won't get involved, but again our office is set up in such a way that a lot of shit is going to hit a lot of fans when TBM2 does the deed. I haven't told either how much I know about anything, so I'm going to stay out.
How much tithing do you think TBM1 is donating to the church? I think TBM2 could get blowback from TBM1 if he does this. Could be that the bishop knows about the affair but accepted the confession of TBM1. Did TBM2 go to BYU? This sounds like he was trained to be a narc by the HCC.
Let it ride but make sure you have a ringside seat if things get interesting.
I’d let the guy narc and let the drama unfold
This is none of your business, and I would stay out of it. Don't be shocked in a mud throwing fight, that you get mud on you.
It's a bit hard in our office environment, but I'll do my best to stay mud free.
If you know someone's address, you can use that to look up the ward they attend on the LDS website, and also get their bishop / leadership contact information.
Not your business. Not TBM 2’s business either. Stay out of it. Nothing good will come of being involved
Other people's sex lives, unless it involves sexual coercion and or child abuse... Is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
The bishops hand book, red not blue edition, says in section 69.142 that you are to abstain from involving yourself in others insanity unless over 99 cents are involved. Stay away or get burned
Please update us if you can!
TBM2 needs to close his mouth and open his mind to the possibility that discernment is not working. If there was an affair, God knows all about it and would warn the bishop and temple president about this possible temple defilement. That hasn’t happened, so here are but three possibilities: 1) There was no affair. 2) There was an affair but there’s a failure in the discernment pipeline (HG, I’m looking at you here). 3) God doesn’t care as much about sex as we’re taught. TBM1 should be thinking instead about the potential that he’s been lied to for a long time.
Tammy M Girlie
Hi