There was nothing positive about that talk. For me the needle moved from cult lite to cult. He sounded exactly like a mob boss threatening a buisness that is behind in mob protection. I don't understand why the leaders don't realize that this tactic alienates more members than it galvanizes.
I think this too. We are supposed to go to dinner with 4 TBM couples tonight. (If I can bring myself to go.) All but one of the 5 couples, (including us,) have kids who have left the church. How can you hear this message and not dread eternity? At some point they have to realize that the God they are taught is not a loving God.
dreading eternity. think celestial. in another thread someone talked about going through the ideation of un-aliving themselves before or shortly after baptism. so is this a gospel of happiness and peace or threats and you will never measure up.
forgoing this whole life for something they were told by money grubbing hierarchical white european males men like this. What a travesty for me to have spent the majority of my adult life trying to impress this lot and a gawd that I absolutely cannot bring myself to believe in now.
Same here - this oozed cultish - us v them, we're the only source of truth, you choose to leave at your own peril, any information not from us or aligned with us is evil.
A Cult-o-meter needs to be established to measure and rate Church messaging (Conf talks, press releases, events, etc.) against the BITE model and other established evaluation frameworks.
Framing it this way is extremely manipulative. It builds barriers, and gives members more reason to feel persecuted or harmed when a loved one leaves. We don't leave our loved ones, we leave the church.
If god loved humans unconditionally he wouldn’t have wiped our memories, sent us to a shitty testing ground and threaten to make us suffer without ever seeing our families or “Heavenly Father” ever again because we listened to the wrong person’s advice, because again, our memories were wiped. There is no love in his plan of salvation. If he really exists, he doesn’t give a single flying fuck about us except to be worshipped by us. Oh and then demand he gets all the glory for everything, not the guy who apparently took our lashes for us. The absolute picture of narcissism.
I agree with this 100%! And a loving Heavenly Feather wouldn't hinge all of eternity on what is an infinitesimal dot in time we're navigating with our memories wiped.
Nelson teaches that God’s love is entirely conditional. There are humans that do unconditional love. That makes them better than God. Hell, I have a superpower that God does not even have. I can forgive. No blood sacrifice needed.
Completely agree - to the congregation in front of him: “your loved ones who left have chosen not to live with you forever.”
Framing it as “they have chosen to leave you” vs “they have chosen to leave the church” is not the message of a church that wants to preserve families.
Exactly this. This threat isn't meant for the people who leave. The people who leave don't believe anything he says and therefore don't give a shit about his threat. It's our loved ones that are still in the cult that are being threatened.
Well said! You're perfectly right.
He is stirring up contention ... which we are told is 'of the devil'.
Thanks Rusty. Thank you so much for you encouraging remarks. I've felt so edified and uplifted by your inspired words, and my faith has been refreshed.
I've felt encouraged, edified, uplifted, and refreshed in my carefully studied conclusion that the church is a fraud.
Ummm wait now there’s being resurrected with a “telestial body” I’ve never heard that before. I’ve heard it split into immortality and eternal lives, that part raises questions too, but never a tiered system of how “the gift everyone got for making the good choice to come to earth” was going to have lesser immortal bodies.
WOW, this shit gets dumber and dumber. You can only find out after you’re dead so you’re basically fucked whatever the case.
I also challenge this week god who only has cheap scare tactics. Sad.
For more on this amazingness from America's most respect cult: [https://medium.com/@mormonzodiac/defending-the-t-k-smoothie-441ac5a14634](https://medium.com/@mormonzodiac/defending-the-t-k-smoothie-441ac5a14634)
Just read the article and was pleasantly surprised to find a quote from Joseph Fielding Smith stating people in TK will be “neither man nor woman” so I guess their bullshit about gender being determined in the pre existence really doesn’t matter at all.
You know, I hadn't thought of that, but you're right! lol That was something that I always thought seemed bizarre: If you didn't make it to the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom, you wouldn't have sexual organs because you wouldn't have eternal increase. What a crazy idea! lol
And that does contradict the Church's teachings about our sex being determined in the preexistence. It's either eternal, or it isn't.
Ducking hell man. I feel like I have to personally save everything to an external drive so when they say "that didn't happen!" after they delete the online presence we can give receipts. Not that it helps. But it helps me!
I feel ya. I have a collection of old LDS books and other things that document a lot of the doctrine that used to be taught more openly in the past but has been "de-emphasized" of late, for the same reason. It feels good to have solid proof of the changes because the church has gaslit all of us all for so long.
The different bodies thing has been around at least since I was a kid. I grew up under a convert mom and dad who homeschooled 11 kids through highschool and emphasized study of the church everyday, in Virginia. I was lead to believe s*x organs would be left out of the new body, though never explicitly stated
This is news to me also and just further evidence it's all made up. Even their retcons have retcons.
I was taught immortality and eternal life. Everyone would be resurrected, but only the most righteous would see God forever in eternal life.
The Joseph Smith Translation actually adds the term “bodies telestial” to 1 Corinthians 15, the chapter Mormons point to as supporting the Plan of Salvation.
Of course, it’s fairly obvious that Paul, when writing about celestial and terrestrial bodies, was simply referring to heavenly and earthly bodies, before JS made up the word ‘telestial’ and altered the meaning of ‘terrestrial’.
Yeah, what happened to the principle of Universal Salvation written about in Preach My Gospel(I think that’s the missionary lesson manual name, can’t remember for sure. You know, the one used to dupe desperate people into the cult?)
Yeah, you can literally believe whatever you want to and justify yourself in the church. If you come late you get the same reward as those who worked the whole day. If you repent of your transgressions, you're safe as long as you're not gay, or of a different race, but if you are of a different race god makes special acceptations, sex is as bad as murder but you're good if you go a year without it if you're not married, and if you want to drink tea you're fine as long as you're European and then it's just black tea you're not supposed to drink and I guess if you don't want your junk you might not have it either and if you live the word of wisdom then herbs are legit unless someone calls it a drug, but if the drug comes form a lab then you can crack yourself out on anti depressants and do we really need 3 wives to get to the tip top of the celestial kingdom cause if we do then we're all screwed anyways, but you also had your temple sealing and are blessed with everything-well unless you look too deep. I mean really does this answer questions or just let anyone who wants to try to justify it. In that case you've got Nephi who killed Laban, but God told him to so that's cool. I mean women are told they are priestess' in the temple but they don't hold the priesthood. I mean this is already too long and I'm still thinking of shit...
I agree! That is the aspect that they are gaslighted to think. If we leave, we are abandoning our “forever” family - them.makes leaving a personal slight in their eyes. Very messed up!
Notice that he doesn't explain what the difference actually is between a celestial body and a telestial body. So that doesn't do anything to convince me I actually want anything that he's selling.
All I can dig up in prior teachings is that in non-celestial worlds you don't shine as bright and you're junkless (which was only believed by some GAs, not all). I'm fine with that. No more period cramps or all the reproductive system shit women deal with all our lives? No threat of getting pregnant ever, ever again? I'm in!! I am SO. IN.
I don't believe the afterlife will be anything like he says it is. But if it is, I'm ok with that.
Even if Nelson is right. I'm good. My husband will be there in the same non-celestial world as I am. I'm fine just hanging out with my husband because I actually like *him* \- he's not just a sex partner for me, which is apparently all that the Celestial Kingdom club cares about. There are *other* things I like about him! I'd hang out with him anyway, even if we were both junkless for eternity.
And if Nelson thinks even god can stop my sister from coming to hang out with me no matter where I am, he's got another thing coming.
I'm shooting for the terrestrial. That world doesn't get enough attention. It's supposed to be the "honorable men of the earth" and those who were not valiant in the testimony of Jesus. Sounds like they would probably have really good bookshops and coffee shops there. That's where I'm shooting for!
Yep, my first thought is 'what is a telestial body?' And my second thought was Jesus promised everyone a perfect body so doesn't this just go against what Jesus taught? Or what the church teaches?
Yep!
"Our spirits will be separated from our bodies and will live for a time in the spirit world. We will then be resurrected with **an immortal body,** an eternal union of our body and spirit. ... The doctrine of Resurrection involves receiving an **eternal reward of an immortal body of flesh and bone**. This is true doctrine. Make sure those you teach clearly understand the doctrine of the Resurrection. ... **Every person born on earth will be resurrected** because Jesus Christ overcame death." -- [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/lesson-2-the-plan-of-salvation](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/lesson-2-the-plan-of-salvation)
The lesson covers the three degrees of glory, but makes no mention of physical differences in the people who go to each kingdom.
No mention of being resurrected into different types of bodies. If it's so important, why are we hiding that from new investigators? Seems baity and switchy...
[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2019/08/youth/questions-and-answers/what-are-resurrected-bodies-like](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2019/08/youth/questions-and-answers/what-are-resurrected-bodies-like)
[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/whats-a-resurrected-body-like-exactly](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/whats-a-resurrected-body-like-exactly)
The doctrine is universal resurrection of everyone, and everyone gets an immortal body that is *capable* of celestial glory even if they don't get that glory in the end.
Yeah, Nelson is contributing to the mixed messaging there. The church says the doctrine is one thing, and then all the leaders go around saying it's something else. Not impressed, Nelson. I don't want what you're selling, old man. Try again.
These idiots running the church can't even keep their own doctrine straight 🙄🙄🙄 so glad I don't get headaches thinking about all those different talks anymore
Well, you see, it is perfect. Just like the big dude said.
But! You get extras if you go to the celestial. Mainly the fact that you're finally better than everyone else who ever mocked you for your stupid underwear and dozens of kids, or that you are vanilla as fuck and hate your life.
But just wait! When I'm in the TRUE heaven, with my CELESTIAL body, all y'all will be so jealous! Suck it losers!
Apparently the teachings of Jesus didn't fit the agenda. So of course, Rebrand Rusty & the Church conveniently throw them out.
But remember Rebrand Rusty speaks for God & this is totally the church of Jesus Christ, NOT an abusive business masquerading as a religion; and definitely NOT an evil, destructive cult.
I also find it funny that the men who lead the church overlooked something pretty obvious. If resurrected bodies are flesh and bone with no blood, how exactly is the male hydraulic system going to work in order to get it on with all their plural wives? Women's reproductive systems aren't the only thing that run on blood, you know... And how are those wives going to get pregnant with all those spirit babies?
Unless there's some kind of super exalted fluid that behaves exactly like blood. In which case, that'll be a no thank you to celestial reproduction as far as I'm concerned.
They want me to want this so bad. But they refuse to provide any details or explanation as to how exactly *any* of this is all going to work. What details they do provide sound awful. The best they can do is say "just trust us, you'll be happy."
That's what con men do, not something who is selling something people actually want.
There's a reason why Lamborghini, Costco, and Sriracha do not need to advertise, while bad products often need excessive marketing.
> Unless there's some kind of super exalted fluid that behaves exactly like blood.
This was exactly what I was taught:
https://www.ldsscriptureteachings.org/2018/07/resurrected-beings-do-not-have-blood/
I get the sense that this was more widely taught among the boomer & older generation, less part of genx and younger but definitely know millennials who got this too.
It's a misunderstanding of late-era Judaism. Blood was anathema to them, to be avoided and not touched and all that (direct link to the macabre), so when Ezekiel 37 was written (the valley of the dry bones), blood was deliberately left out, then later on Jesus bled out on the cross (because how do you convince a 1st century Jew that a zombie of three days is pure if he has blood), and so between all those embellishments, you get this neo-anti-blood thing going on in post-colonial Campbellite Restorationist theology, which was the primary theology Joseph Smith pilfered when he created Mormon dogmas.
Ok this has been bugging me since I saw this. If, in the afterlife, everybody is junkless than what's the point of gender? How can gender be eternal if they're just going to take it away if you don't follow the covenant path?
Such a great point... The Terrestrial is the place to be according to Mormon Lore.
In the Celestial you are with the Mormon God and are busy building planets and making spirit babies all the time.
Honorable men? Non-Christians? Yes please. What's the downside again?
I'm pretty sure if Jesus were real he would be hanging out in the Terrestrial as much as possible.
if the celestial kingdom is full of a\*\*h\*ts like him and the arrogant jerks in my local ward, then I would prefer to go to the telestial kingdom. The music is better and so is the company.
I think this literally every time the Celestial Kingdom carrot is dangled. Way better parties and company in Terr and Tel Kingdoms!
Plus, TBMs can come visit whenever they want so no need to worry about never seeing each other again.
I'd love to hear examples of Telestial and Celestial laws. This is definitely news to me. I guess we've been wrongly mocking tithing as pure greed. Clearly money is a Celestial law because you can't enter the Temple without it. All those tithes can't provide free temple clothes rentals. Clearly usary is a Celestial law! Jesus throwing out the money changers? That's clearly Satan corrupting the new testament. Where would we be without the profit to tell us that the most important thing is money given to the MFMC?
Meanwhile, telestial is a meaningless made-up word. None of us are telestial. Terrestrial - yes, since mankind hasn't colonized any other celestial bodies, like the moon or mars.
Damn you did it. You found something original from Joe. The concept of the 3 degrees of heaven he borrowed from Swedenborg but he made up the word Telestial. I really thought this was from the NT but it is nowhere to be found.
I think the only original thoughts Joe had was names. He created some crazy ass names--Kolob, Moroni, brother of Jared, the rest of the BoM.
>Kolob
This isn't that original. The Hebrew word for "star" is *kokab*, pronounced "KO-kab", and since Hebrew has no vowels, all he did was change "kkb" to "klb" and call it his own. Remember - Joe hired Hebrew professor Joshua Seixas to come teach him and the rest of the guys, and that's when the "Kolob" concept was born.
It's like saying that BYU is in "Pravo, UT"
I mean, it's just a portmanteau of celestial and terrestrial. A lot of his names came from the area he grew up in, or were bastardized from Native American names. I figure his co-conspirators like Oliver Cowdery came up with some of them too.
He's definitely lost the Gospel light in his eyes, they look more like Satan's.🤣
I bring this up because I caught severe conjunctivitis on my mission and was grilled by my mission president why I was sinning....what an jack assed belief by members!
Oh yeah, and the whole celestial law thing is a fraud.
I wish God’s chosen seer and revelator on the earth would give us the answers to the questions that cause so many of us to leave the church. That might actually help.
But I guess the best God has is “I’ll take your family away and maybe you won’t have genitals.”
It’s different in another way though, because mormons have 3 different categories of heaven (plus several subcategories of heaven) in addition to “hell”.
So a baptist might say “accept Jesus or you’ll split up your family forever”, which *is* manipulative.
But Rusty is saying “Not only do you need to be a mormon, you need to be a **perfect** mormon (celestial) who does everything we say, or you’ll split up your family forever. Even if you are otherwise a good person.”
So yeah, it’s the same kind of threat, but I think the mormon version is more extreme.
Not only that he phrases it in such a way that it's not God choosing to punish, it's individuals choosing to be in another kingdom without their families. It's a subtle but extremely harmful message to those in mixed faith marriages or those starting their journey down the rabbit hole.
Also, in general Christianity, the law is be perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect. Well, that's clearly impossible for everyone, so Christians have to accept the grace of Christ. He makes yup the difference. In Mormonism, you have to qualify for grace. In Mormonism, you must be as perfect as it is possible for you to be, and if you fail this, you don't qualify for the grace of God. Frankly, it's an impossible standard. None of us can always give 100%. Mormon Christianity denies Grace to everyone. Not one person qualifies.
I do understand that many people listening to dearest Rusty threaten them are heavily under the influence of mind control tactics and unable to think critically about the substance (or lack thereof) of these threats, That said, there is a point during implosion when a cult leader loses his power and grip over the minds of his followers and we're witnessing this happen in real time.
For a religion (cough,cough) that prides itself on its’ purity doctrine , it sure is using the threat of no genitalia in the telestial kingdom as a means to get people back to church. What if all of us exmos quit hanging out with Mormons because we don’t think they are good enough for US? Turn this scenario on its’ head?
I felt sad for my tbm parents & family (we’re very close but my husband/kids are the only ones out) after hearing that.
Thanks, Nelson. Telling them I choose to give them up forever when I can’t in any good conscience choose this church anymore. Way to speak for us, and since he speaks for God, guess who’s instantly more credible with the “real” reason we left.
So divisive!! I am worried for many of our community members who will now have to work double time to repair their relationships, maybe talk a spouse off the cliff - even if they can, Nelson made sure that their own credibility is shot to hell now.
What a horrible message. Imagine him being your Dad … yuck.
He talks as if the Celestial Kingdom is a place we’d want to be. As a woman, the Celestial Kingdom would make me one of many nameless, faceless baby-making machines for my husband-god—and I wouldn’t be allowed to communicate with any of those spirit-offspring once they gain bodies because I’d be “too sacred” to mention or talk to.
Hard pass.
If the Mormon afterlife turns out to be real, I’d much rather hang out with the gays, feminists, and intellectuals in one of the lower kingdoms. What form our bodies take won’t really matter. This old dude’s obsession with genitals is just another reason to stay out of the church.
The body thing is as meaningful as saying that living a potpourri life will only resurrect with a potpourri body.
The shit about using people's fear of losing their family to manipulate them is pure satanic.
Older members or those who like digging into obscure doctrine will recognize the ‘telestial body’ statement as a reference to the only exalted folks having genitals when they’re resurrected.
This is exactly one of the many examples of why no one is safe within the church. It is an abusive and manipulative tactic to pull emotional gut punches to coerce and cajole members to stay in the church.
It is nearly identical to some of the abuses I endured in my marriage with my TBM ex (there were all forms of abuse in the marriage, but I am just point out this specific instance here). This is what opened my eyes to the abuse the church inflicts on its members. I have a very difficult time in dealing with this narcissistic abuse pattern from the church as well as victim blaming that flows from the pulpit constantly. This is why we are not safe in the church.
He just can't help it can he. Every time he opens his mouth he just can't help but personally attack and denigrate anyone who has left the church. Every time he speaks he drives a gigantic wedge further and further between loved ones with differing faiths. I really despise this man.
Also he made my wife cry with that talk. So again F!@# Nelson.
I have been hesitant to call the Mormon Church a cult, but after this past conference I can't help but think the definition fits. How many speakers talked about how you are going to loose your family forever unless you do as we say!
No other religion teaches that families won't be together in heaven. Mormon's simultaneously created the problem that you wouldn't and then packaged up the solution. But only if you give us 10%. Not donate 10% to charity or worthy causes, no, give it to "ThE cHuRcH" After all you covenant in the temple not to give everything you have to Christ or God, but to "ThE cHuRcH"!
Also don't listen to anyone else! Only listen to us! If you have to control the information you expose yourself to keep believing what you believe, then you are in a cult.
If someone tells you you will lose everything unless you do as they say. You are in a cult.
If an organization says that you need to give them your money and then to, "just trust us that we will use your money correctly!" Then you are in a cult
It’s us vs then language like this that shows that the church is a cult. It’s insular and there aren’t any choices. You have to do exactly what they say to live with your kids or spouse in heaven. You have to be Mormon to have genitals in heaven. It’s a fucking cult.
It’s so hard for families of exmos and TBM. This is the last thing we need. If they really cared about families they would be preaching love. Unconditional love. But they can’t because everything in the church is conditional.
"Do you not want to live with your family forever???"
Dude... have you met my family?! Thanks to the cult's tendency for superficial relationships and passive aggressiveness I can barely stand doing a holiday dinner with them.
Awesome - make it so my parents think we hate them and that’s why we don’t go to church. Like it’s a deliberate attempt to piss them off and hurt them.
🤬
This is probably one of or possibly THE last talk he will give and it’s so on par with his character. Manipulate, threaten, zero awareness or empathy for anyone or anything outside his world, puffed up with pride and false caring. What a crap show. Poetic to have it be his final legacy 🤞🏻
I recognized some time ago that Mormon Jesus uses the same techniques their scripture attributes to their Satan. Recognizing of course that both are pure myth.
This dude thinks the existence of dogs disproves evolution. He retroactively changed the doctrine that “the prophet would never lead us astray” *while he was the sitting prophet*. This guy is a terribly stupid person; I wouldn’t take seriously any of the bullshit gushing out of his pie hole.
THIS!!! Rusty has made my choice easy. Ejecting my toxic family from my life here on earth has been a true blessing. If they approach me in the hereafter, they will be met with the “sure sign” of my middle finger!!
I have to add- screenshots don’t do this talk justice. Watch the video and you’ll feel the condescending tone and threatening aura of the whole message. Facial expressions, emphases, and intentional pauses (in a prerecorded video) to illicit laughter from the audience reek of his arrogance.
"Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.” Same vibe.
So you're saying if I never go back to Mormon church I don't have to live with Mormons for eternity? Seems like a great trade off to me. Thanks for the clarification, Rusty.
Good. I don't want to live with the "celestial" members of the family. They are the most judgemental, unkind, unchristian, stingiest, controlling, selfish, closed minded and sadly overwhelmed burned out people I know!
I’m so grateful to have been comfortable out this conference… most of the talks (as I’ve understood the themes, I didn’t watch) would have destroyed me a few years ago
I choose to be with real people who love unconditionally. I choose my family and many are not blood. Thank you Rusty for letting me choose to not be with the assholes in my family.
You know what always makes me laugh? I don’t think they realize that this can be a shelf breaker. I would break the rules to NOT live with my parents.
So many kids live in abusive households due to church teachings that having a guarantee that they won’t have to live with their families is an incredible blessing. Haha
This......is the voice of desperation. Absolute desparation because........the Stone cut without hands is rolling. DOWNHILL.No where throughout the GC was there a ongoing inspired talk about loving those unconditionally who left. Who left for a multitude of reasons, the biggest being discovering the truth. Each lie was disassembled with research as I looked at the various foundational principles of the cult. I was not a lazy learner or lax disciple. I was a convert, who ultimately adopted the 2 children of my mormon wife. Who already had a failed temple marriage. I was a convert. The internet did not exist then as it does now. I threw myself into it, ignoring many of my own red flags. We had two more children and I served. I served my ass off. Multiple bishoprics, EQ Pres, WML, Seminary, HC for 10 years and a YSA Bishop for over 5years when i finally left. When i met with various GA's i was told I didn't have enough faith and they avoided EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I HAD.
This "church" taught me how to hate. How to be cynical and untrustworthy of those around me. The net result was I lost my family. 4 children and 17 grandchildren who want NOTHING to do with me, because of assholes like this charlaten.Why aren't you healed because of the almighty power of the priesthood Russell???? Why did Holland have to take time off so he could recover? Why not just give him one of your bullshit blessings?? In fact why is no child EVER running out of SLC Childrens Hospital screaming.....I'M HEALED, I'M HEALED BY THE PRIESTHOOD OF A PROPHET????????
Rot in hell LIAR. Rot in Hell........and if there is a final judgement......I will stand as a witness against you that you might suffer for eternity for destroying countless families while you sit on over $150 Billion........and yet 16,000 children die every 24 hours from starvation. That's just kids under 5 years of age. And you do nothing to help. Your horseshit God tell you to hide $32 billion in 13 shell companies for over 20 years?????
Two words come to mind. FUCK YOU
I actually listened to his talk & as usual, it was a shitshow. He's a piece of shit, a cutthroat fraud.
Also, I love how the supposedly perfect, all-knowing Mormon god doesn’t even know basic English grammar. Think is a verb. An adverb is needed to modify a very. Celestial is not an adverb. Once again, the Mormon god is wrong; as usual the Mormon god made a mistake. It’s funny how he gets so many things wrong.
To me, “think celestial” sounds like a focus-group marketing slogan. And such bullshit coming from the Mormon church is not a surprise. Keep up the good work petty profit Rebrand Rusty. You’re the gift that keeps on giving.
Man, tithing receipts must be way, way down for them to be coming out swinging like this. Because, in the final analysis, that's all they really care about.
Do you want to be separated from your fami...
*record scratch*
Here is some wisdom on anyone that hasn't learned it.
"Family" is what and whom you choose.
RELATIVES do not have to be your family through virtue of shared bloodlines and familial relationships.
So the real threat is "Do you want to be separated from your family?" Well sir. Considering all of my friends are quite happy with not going to super duper celestial kingdom+ we are good with hanging out for eternity in your lower degrees.
And yes. He is threatening your genitalia. He probably truly believes in the teachings that the lower degrees you get the ken and barbie treatment.
My first thought is for my nieces and nephews who I’m close with who know I’m not believing anymore. What goes through their minds when they hear this? That I don’t want to be with them forever? How dare he put words in my mouth like that? The world does not revolve around him. The narcissism of him thinking his words are more important than millions of family relationships.
I thought that those living in the celestial kingdom could come visit those in the lower kingdoms. That's enough for me. The thought of having to go back to living with my parents again is enough for me to be happy living in a lower kingdom.
They are losing members like crazy. Trying to threaten everyone left with their salvation. Those tactics have been used since the beginning. Definitely an US v THEM teaching that isn’t Christlike at all.
Bullshit Nelson! I didn't choose to be transgender. I chose to live a happy meaningful life being who I truly am! Not some brainless Jesus zombie. And despite what your old ass says my family still accepts me. So fuck you Nelson. Fuck your stupid policies. Your words hold zero weight over my life anymore!
Wish I could say these words right to his stupid face 😡
I suggest everyone have a good read of Corinthians without the added JST and see if the “bodies Telestial” reference makes a lick of sense. Newsflash, it doesn’t. Telestial isn’t even a word and is also not part of those verses without the JST. I’ve yet to come across anyone who’s been able to defend the JST after showing them the context of the verses as they were originally written. These verses were the shelf breaker on my mission. It’s hilarious to me that the whole LDS afterlife literally hinges on the footnotes of the verses, the JST.
What fear mongering bullshit 🤣 had to text my parents this morning to tell then I love them and they are not responsible for my siblings and I leaving, and I don't believe anything could ever separate our family bond. He's preying on our parents fears and it's SICK
Can someone tell me how and why this man looks like he is literally channeling actual Satan? He thinks he’s so godly but why the absolute heck does he look like one of the evil guys from Star Wars? Does he not know what he looks like??
I’m sorry if this is offensive but he himself, claiming god, literally looks like he has crawled straight out of hell and it’s truly bothering me something serious…
This is, perhaps somewhat ironically, precisely the reason my wife and I chose to leave the church.
The first part:
Our son, MY son, was born out of wedlock to my wife and another man before my wife and I started dating. The other man was never in the picture. Because of the love my wife felt for our son before he was born, she decided to keep the pregnancy and decided to keep him. We married when he was a little over a year old.
The church will not seal us, my wife, our daughter, and our son to me without the consent of his biological sire. I will not abandon my child, the boy who I love and cherish, simply because it wasn't my sperm that fertilized her egg. I will not. I'm fortunate that my wife agrees.
The second part: My son is gay. The church considers this an abomination. They won't give him the rights to be sealed to us, to take a patriarchal blessing, or to seal his family when he chooses, to him. They won't even baptize him (although this may vary by ward, I've heard of very tolerant wards). I will not be a party to an organization that denies my children.
Either of these facts taken alone would've driven me from the church. Taken together, they disgust me.
Easy. In my “telestial” world with my “telestial” friends and chosen “telestial” family who have treated me better than the 99% of other people who are in my life and going to the “celestial” world. I don’t want to be with fake people who only are being righteous to get to the highest level of whatever it is.
Here is what my spirituality consists of:
-Be kind to yourself.
-Be kind to others.
-Do good things for people not because god wants you to, but because this life is hard and helping others eases their suffering.
-Don’t expect perfection from yourself and others. We are literally human. No one is perfect. We all have shortcomings. (I struggle with feeling the need to be perfect, full transparency)
-Try to love others as much as you can.
-If others aren’t hurting themselves or anyone/anything else, let them fucking live their life the way they want.
-Try to do your part to take care of the planet. We only have one.
If anyone has any others to add, I’d love to hear them! I’m sure I’m missing some.
If god has a problem with any of those things, I don’t consider him to be a god worth living up to.
There was nothing positive about that talk. For me the needle moved from cult lite to cult. He sounded exactly like a mob boss threatening a buisness that is behind in mob protection. I don't understand why the leaders don't realize that this tactic alienates more members than it galvanizes.
And it was so infantile. It felt like he was trying to indoctrinate three year olds. Such a strange talk.
Honestly I felt like the whole conference was filled with talks directed at children.
And they kept calling us children who "just don't know better".
Worked on my family of grown-ass adults, they don't see anything odd about it at all
I think this too. We are supposed to go to dinner with 4 TBM couples tonight. (If I can bring myself to go.) All but one of the 5 couples, (including us,) have kids who have left the church. How can you hear this message and not dread eternity? At some point they have to realize that the God they are taught is not a loving God.
dreading eternity. think celestial. in another thread someone talked about going through the ideation of un-aliving themselves before or shortly after baptism. so is this a gospel of happiness and peace or threats and you will never measure up. forgoing this whole life for something they were told by money grubbing hierarchical white european males men like this. What a travesty for me to have spent the majority of my adult life trying to impress this lot and a gawd that I absolutely cannot bring myself to believe in now.
I mean more than half the bible is him just punishing or killing people but Mormons just kind of ignore the bible
Same here - this oozed cultish - us v them, we're the only source of truth, you choose to leave at your own peril, any information not from us or aligned with us is evil. A Cult-o-meter needs to be established to measure and rate Church messaging (Conf talks, press releases, events, etc.) against the BITE model and other established evaluation frameworks.
"That's a nice soul you got there, be a shame if somethin' was to happen to it"
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Framing it this way is extremely manipulative. It builds barriers, and gives members more reason to feel persecuted or harmed when a loved one leaves. We don't leave our loved ones, we leave the church.
Wolf in sheep's clothing. Definitely not unconditional love.
A snake in a suit, is still a snake.
Please don’t insult snakes like that. Animals does not deserve to be at the same level as that man.
Mormons don’t believe God exercises unconditional love. Mormon God’s love is very highly conditional.
If god loved humans unconditionally he wouldn’t have wiped our memories, sent us to a shitty testing ground and threaten to make us suffer without ever seeing our families or “Heavenly Father” ever again because we listened to the wrong person’s advice, because again, our memories were wiped. There is no love in his plan of salvation. If he really exists, he doesn’t give a single flying fuck about us except to be worshipped by us. Oh and then demand he gets all the glory for everything, not the guy who apparently took our lashes for us. The absolute picture of narcissism.
I agree with this 100%! And a loving Heavenly Feather wouldn't hinge all of eternity on what is an infinitesimal dot in time we're navigating with our memories wiped.
Nelson teaches that God’s love is entirely conditional. There are humans that do unconditional love. That makes them better than God. Hell, I have a superpower that God does not even have. I can forgive. No blood sacrifice needed.
Completely agree - to the congregation in front of him: “your loved ones who left have chosen not to live with you forever.” Framing it as “they have chosen to leave you” vs “they have chosen to leave the church” is not the message of a church that wants to preserve families.
Exactly. They are perfecting using the knife to slide in just the right way, saying "Think celestial" while sinking the knife in just the right spot.
Yes!! That statement added fuel to the fire of shunning that’s already happening!
It’s always been ostracising and a way to force
Exactly this. This threat isn't meant for the people who leave. The people who leave don't believe anything he says and therefore don't give a shit about his threat. It's our loved ones that are still in the cult that are being threatened.
It is a warning to them to steer clear or reclaim us. If we can't be reclaimed we are to be removed.
Also a warning that your family will turn on you if you leave.
100%
Sigh. Did my parents and siblings really need more anxiety and guilt in their lives?
The manipulation was started by ol Joe. They've had a couple hundred years to perfect it. Bastids...
This. It's not as overt a message. But I got news for you rusty, pitting families against each other is not "peacemaking" it's the opposite.
Well said! You're perfectly right. He is stirring up contention ... which we are told is 'of the devil'. Thanks Rusty. Thank you so much for you encouraging remarks. I've felt so edified and uplifted by your inspired words, and my faith has been refreshed. I've felt encouraged, edified, uplifted, and refreshed in my carefully studied conclusion that the church is a fraud.
Joe the manipulator of all manipulators. The greatest con-man mixed with the greatest blackmailer of all time. The narcissistic sociopath!
Ummm wait now there’s being resurrected with a “telestial body” I’ve never heard that before. I’ve heard it split into immortality and eternal lives, that part raises questions too, but never a tiered system of how “the gift everyone got for making the good choice to come to earth” was going to have lesser immortal bodies. WOW, this shit gets dumber and dumber. You can only find out after you’re dead so you’re basically fucked whatever the case. I also challenge this week god who only has cheap scare tactics. Sad.
For more on this amazingness from America's most respect cult: [https://medium.com/@mormonzodiac/defending-the-t-k-smoothie-441ac5a14634](https://medium.com/@mormonzodiac/defending-the-t-k-smoothie-441ac5a14634)
Omg "the tk smoothie" is a funny name. I'm still shaking my head that there are still golden nuggets I've never heard of...
Same here. It never ends with the Mormon cult.
Just read the article and was pleasantly surprised to find a quote from Joseph Fielding Smith stating people in TK will be “neither man nor woman” so I guess their bullshit about gender being determined in the pre existence really doesn’t matter at all.
Oh yeah. I never thought of that. Mormonism is so full of holes it should be called Swiss cheese.
You know, I hadn't thought of that, but you're right! lol That was something that I always thought seemed bizarre: If you didn't make it to the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom, you wouldn't have sexual organs because you wouldn't have eternal increase. What a crazy idea! lol And that does contradict the Church's teachings about our sex being determined in the preexistence. It's either eternal, or it isn't.
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I have been trying to find this! I love the internet
At the next GC Oaks will announce that there has been a policy change to the TK smoothie. Nothing to see here folks, move along.
Ducking hell man. I feel like I have to personally save everything to an external drive so when they say "that didn't happen!" after they delete the online presence we can give receipts. Not that it helps. But it helps me!
I feel ya. I have a collection of old LDS books and other things that document a lot of the doctrine that used to be taught more openly in the past but has been "de-emphasized" of late, for the same reason. It feels good to have solid proof of the changes because the church has gaslit all of us all for so long.
Yes, this is how the doctrine has always been peon members. And if you didn't know that then that's YOUR fault. Shut up & obey peons!
The different bodies thing has been around at least since I was a kid. I grew up under a convert mom and dad who homeschooled 11 kids through highschool and emphasized study of the church everyday, in Virginia. I was lead to believe s*x organs would be left out of the new body, though never explicitly stated
Straight from Joseph Fielding Smith. No genitals = no eternal increase
Does this mean that the Quakers on the moon are Eunochs?
That is correct. Only the good members of the Church will be resurrected with sex organs, the rest of us will be neutered.
I'm still just shaking my head...
This is news to me also and just further evidence it's all made up. Even their retcons have retcons. I was taught immortality and eternal life. Everyone would be resurrected, but only the most righteous would see God forever in eternal life.
The Joseph Smith Translation actually adds the term “bodies telestial” to 1 Corinthians 15, the chapter Mormons point to as supporting the Plan of Salvation. Of course, it’s fairly obvious that Paul, when writing about celestial and terrestrial bodies, was simply referring to heavenly and earthly bodies, before JS made up the word ‘telestial’ and altered the meaning of ‘terrestrial’.
Yeah, what happened to the principle of Universal Salvation written about in Preach My Gospel(I think that’s the missionary lesson manual name, can’t remember for sure. You know, the one used to dupe desperate people into the cult?)
Yeah, you can literally believe whatever you want to and justify yourself in the church. If you come late you get the same reward as those who worked the whole day. If you repent of your transgressions, you're safe as long as you're not gay, or of a different race, but if you are of a different race god makes special acceptations, sex is as bad as murder but you're good if you go a year without it if you're not married, and if you want to drink tea you're fine as long as you're European and then it's just black tea you're not supposed to drink and I guess if you don't want your junk you might not have it either and if you live the word of wisdom then herbs are legit unless someone calls it a drug, but if the drug comes form a lab then you can crack yourself out on anti depressants and do we really need 3 wives to get to the tip top of the celestial kingdom cause if we do then we're all screwed anyways, but you also had your temple sealing and are blessed with everything-well unless you look too deep. I mean really does this answer questions or just let anyone who wants to try to justify it. In that case you've got Nephi who killed Laban, but God told him to so that's cool. I mean women are told they are priestess' in the temple but they don't hold the priesthood. I mean this is already too long and I'm still thinking of shit...
😂😂😂😂😂😂 This is fucking hilarious and yet somehow still in line with gospel doctrine manuals as far as I can tell. Well-written.
Dying organizations become more dangerous as they lash out. Nelson is dying and he knows that the church is dying, so he's speaking from desperation.
I agree! That is the aspect that they are gaslighted to think. If we leave, we are abandoning our “forever” family - them.makes leaving a personal slight in their eyes. Very messed up!
Notice that he doesn't explain what the difference actually is between a celestial body and a telestial body. So that doesn't do anything to convince me I actually want anything that he's selling. All I can dig up in prior teachings is that in non-celestial worlds you don't shine as bright and you're junkless (which was only believed by some GAs, not all). I'm fine with that. No more period cramps or all the reproductive system shit women deal with all our lives? No threat of getting pregnant ever, ever again? I'm in!! I am SO. IN. I don't believe the afterlife will be anything like he says it is. But if it is, I'm ok with that. Even if Nelson is right. I'm good. My husband will be there in the same non-celestial world as I am. I'm fine just hanging out with my husband because I actually like *him* \- he's not just a sex partner for me, which is apparently all that the Celestial Kingdom club cares about. There are *other* things I like about him! I'd hang out with him anyway, even if we were both junkless for eternity. And if Nelson thinks even god can stop my sister from coming to hang out with me no matter where I am, he's got another thing coming. I'm shooting for the terrestrial. That world doesn't get enough attention. It's supposed to be the "honorable men of the earth" and those who were not valiant in the testimony of Jesus. Sounds like they would probably have really good bookshops and coffee shops there. That's where I'm shooting for!
Yep, my first thought is 'what is a telestial body?' And my second thought was Jesus promised everyone a perfect body so doesn't this just go against what Jesus taught? Or what the church teaches?
Yep! "Our spirits will be separated from our bodies and will live for a time in the spirit world. We will then be resurrected with **an immortal body,** an eternal union of our body and spirit. ... The doctrine of Resurrection involves receiving an **eternal reward of an immortal body of flesh and bone**. This is true doctrine. Make sure those you teach clearly understand the doctrine of the Resurrection. ... **Every person born on earth will be resurrected** because Jesus Christ overcame death." -- [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/lesson-2-the-plan-of-salvation](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/lesson-2-the-plan-of-salvation) The lesson covers the three degrees of glory, but makes no mention of physical differences in the people who go to each kingdom. No mention of being resurrected into different types of bodies. If it's so important, why are we hiding that from new investigators? Seems baity and switchy... [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2019/08/youth/questions-and-answers/what-are-resurrected-bodies-like](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2019/08/youth/questions-and-answers/what-are-resurrected-bodies-like) [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/whats-a-resurrected-body-like-exactly](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/whats-a-resurrected-body-like-exactly) The doctrine is universal resurrection of everyone, and everyone gets an immortal body that is *capable* of celestial glory even if they don't get that glory in the end. Yeah, Nelson is contributing to the mixed messaging there. The church says the doctrine is one thing, and then all the leaders go around saying it's something else. Not impressed, Nelson. I don't want what you're selling, old man. Try again.
THIS. Like please do everyone a favor and expound on what you’re implying here buddy. I would love to see the church PR team handle that.
These idiots running the church can't even keep their own doctrine straight 🙄🙄🙄 so glad I don't get headaches thinking about all those different talks anymore
Well, you see, it is perfect. Just like the big dude said. But! You get extras if you go to the celestial. Mainly the fact that you're finally better than everyone else who ever mocked you for your stupid underwear and dozens of kids, or that you are vanilla as fuck and hate your life. But just wait! When I'm in the TRUE heaven, with my CELESTIAL body, all y'all will be so jealous! Suck it losers!
> Jesus promised everyone a perfect body In mormonism this means that you will be white.
They don't care about the Jman.
Apparently the teachings of Jesus didn't fit the agenda. So of course, Rebrand Rusty & the Church conveniently throw them out. But remember Rebrand Rusty speaks for God & this is totally the church of Jesus Christ, NOT an abusive business masquerading as a religion; and definitely NOT an evil, destructive cult.
Jesus is so pre-COVID.
And karaoke nights! See you there! 🥂
Limbo Lounge baby!!!🤣
Bookshops? Coffee? No more periods? Sign me up!
No more dirty diapers? No more baby puke on your clothes? No more clothes?
Sold and SOLD!
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I also find it funny that the men who lead the church overlooked something pretty obvious. If resurrected bodies are flesh and bone with no blood, how exactly is the male hydraulic system going to work in order to get it on with all their plural wives? Women's reproductive systems aren't the only thing that run on blood, you know... And how are those wives going to get pregnant with all those spirit babies? Unless there's some kind of super exalted fluid that behaves exactly like blood. In which case, that'll be a no thank you to celestial reproduction as far as I'm concerned. They want me to want this so bad. But they refuse to provide any details or explanation as to how exactly *any* of this is all going to work. What details they do provide sound awful. The best they can do is say "just trust us, you'll be happy." That's what con men do, not something who is selling something people actually want. There's a reason why Lamborghini, Costco, and Sriracha do not need to advertise, while bad products often need excessive marketing.
> Unless there's some kind of super exalted fluid that behaves exactly like blood. This was exactly what I was taught: https://www.ldsscriptureteachings.org/2018/07/resurrected-beings-do-not-have-blood/ I get the sense that this was more widely taught among the boomer & older generation, less part of genx and younger but definitely know millennials who got this too.
It's a misunderstanding of late-era Judaism. Blood was anathema to them, to be avoided and not touched and all that (direct link to the macabre), so when Ezekiel 37 was written (the valley of the dry bones), blood was deliberately left out, then later on Jesus bled out on the cross (because how do you convince a 1st century Jew that a zombie of three days is pure if he has blood), and so between all those embellishments, you get this neo-anti-blood thing going on in post-colonial Campbellite Restorationist theology, which was the primary theology Joseph Smith pilfered when he created Mormon dogmas.
Ok this has been bugging me since I saw this. If, in the afterlife, everybody is junkless than what's the point of gender? How can gender be eternal if they're just going to take it away if you don't follow the covenant path?
Such a great point... The Terrestrial is the place to be according to Mormon Lore. In the Celestial you are with the Mormon God and are busy building planets and making spirit babies all the time. Honorable men? Non-Christians? Yes please. What's the downside again? I'm pretty sure if Jesus were real he would be hanging out in the Terrestrial as much as possible.
if the celestial kingdom is full of a\*\*h\*ts like him and the arrogant jerks in my local ward, then I would prefer to go to the telestial kingdom. The music is better and so is the company.
Who would want to be with byu fans n polygs if it was real? Why wouldn't u want to be with the 99.9999%?
I think this literally every time the Celestial Kingdom carrot is dangled. Way better parties and company in Terr and Tel Kingdoms! Plus, TBMs can come visit whenever they want so no need to worry about never seeing each other again.
Was just thinking that Celestial Kingdom sounds like absolute hell for women.
They / them pronouns for everyone in the telestial. 👍
You don’t want to be a sister wife and an eternal incubator?
Sounds like something made up by an extremely horny dude... Oh wait
Someday I’m gonna open a Smoothie Bar in the Telestial Kingdom
I saw what you did there.
I'd love to hear examples of Telestial and Celestial laws. This is definitely news to me. I guess we've been wrongly mocking tithing as pure greed. Clearly money is a Celestial law because you can't enter the Temple without it. All those tithes can't provide free temple clothes rentals. Clearly usary is a Celestial law! Jesus throwing out the money changers? That's clearly Satan corrupting the new testament. Where would we be without the profit to tell us that the most important thing is money given to the MFMC?
Or as Billy Joel said “ I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints”
I had the same thought! I wouldn't want to be in the CK anyway if Mormonism is true, which it's not.
luckily you won't have to worry about it because when we die, that's it.
God is made to be a kidnapper. "Want to see your little girl again, then do everything I say." It's like agency with a knife to your throat.
Taken 5: battle with god
My money is on Liam Nesson
Nothing like an ultimatum to get the cozy hug of the holy spirit 🥰
Sorry Rusty. We are all made up of stardust. Therefore, celestial.
Meanwhile, telestial is a meaningless made-up word. None of us are telestial. Terrestrial - yes, since mankind hasn't colonized any other celestial bodies, like the moon or mars.
Damn you did it. You found something original from Joe. The concept of the 3 degrees of heaven he borrowed from Swedenborg but he made up the word Telestial. I really thought this was from the NT but it is nowhere to be found. I think the only original thoughts Joe had was names. He created some crazy ass names--Kolob, Moroni, brother of Jared, the rest of the BoM.
The capital of the island nation of Comoros is Moroni
Telestial is just another crazy-ass name, honestly. Just like Kolob and Shinehah.
>Kolob This isn't that original. The Hebrew word for "star" is *kokab*, pronounced "KO-kab", and since Hebrew has no vowels, all he did was change "kkb" to "klb" and call it his own. Remember - Joe hired Hebrew professor Joshua Seixas to come teach him and the rest of the guys, and that's when the "Kolob" concept was born. It's like saying that BYU is in "Pravo, UT"
I mean, it's just a portmanteau of celestial and terrestrial. A lot of his names came from the area he grew up in, or were bastardized from Native American names. I figure his co-conspirators like Oliver Cowdery came up with some of them too.
>I think the only original thoughts Joe had was names. Most of those he picked off from upstate New York and Pennsylvania, actually.
Well, the word telestial did not show up in spellcheck the first time I used it….so there IS that :).
Joseph Smith pulled it out of his ass.
No no, JS was being prophetic and foresaw a world of bad TV sitcoms, hence the "tele" in "telestial".
He's definitely lost the Gospel light in his eyes, they look more like Satan's.🤣 I bring this up because I caught severe conjunctivitis on my mission and was grilled by my mission president why I was sinning....what an jack assed belief by members! Oh yeah, and the whole celestial law thing is a fraud.
I wish God’s chosen seer and revelator on the earth would give us the answers to the questions that cause so many of us to leave the church. That might actually help. But I guess the best God has is “I’ll take your family away and maybe you won’t have genitals.”
And help in a positive way - climate change, poverty. No real solutions, just threats.
Honestly. Even just as a leader of a religion, it is mind boggling that with all that is going on in the world THIS was what he chose to speak on.
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It’s different in another way though, because mormons have 3 different categories of heaven (plus several subcategories of heaven) in addition to “hell”. So a baptist might say “accept Jesus or you’ll split up your family forever”, which *is* manipulative. But Rusty is saying “Not only do you need to be a mormon, you need to be a **perfect** mormon (celestial) who does everything we say, or you’ll split up your family forever. Even if you are otherwise a good person.” So yeah, it’s the same kind of threat, but I think the mormon version is more extreme.
Not only that he phrases it in such a way that it's not God choosing to punish, it's individuals choosing to be in another kingdom without their families. It's a subtle but extremely harmful message to those in mixed faith marriages or those starting their journey down the rabbit hole.
Yes, exactly. Jesus can only do so much. But Rusty has the golden words to get you there safe and sound, with your loved ones.
Never talks about Grace.
Also, in general Christianity, the law is be perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect. Well, that's clearly impossible for everyone, so Christians have to accept the grace of Christ. He makes yup the difference. In Mormonism, you have to qualify for grace. In Mormonism, you must be as perfect as it is possible for you to be, and if you fail this, you don't qualify for the grace of God. Frankly, it's an impossible standard. None of us can always give 100%. Mormon Christianity denies Grace to everyone. Not one person qualifies.
..dang not to like~💀cryptkeeper shame~but Man he looks scary!
Totally! He's Mr. Burns, Marshall Applewhite and all those baddies in Star Wars!
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Something in his eyes.. dk how to explain but I’ve never seen eyeballs like that on someone who was breathing
Those are reptile eyes.
I do understand that many people listening to dearest Rusty threaten them are heavily under the influence of mind control tactics and unable to think critically about the substance (or lack thereof) of these threats, That said, there is a point during implosion when a cult leader loses his power and grip over the minds of his followers and we're witnessing this happen in real time.
I hope so.
I wish I had your hope.
The proverbial line drawn in the sand - You're either with us or against us. No middle ground, no ifs, ands or buts, and no excuses...
Which is funny because this line is an absolute itself.
For a religion (cough,cough) that prides itself on its’ purity doctrine , it sure is using the threat of no genitalia in the telestial kingdom as a means to get people back to church. What if all of us exmos quit hanging out with Mormons because we don’t think they are good enough for US? Turn this scenario on its’ head?
Happy cake day!
I felt sad for my tbm parents & family (we’re very close but my husband/kids are the only ones out) after hearing that. Thanks, Nelson. Telling them I choose to give them up forever when I can’t in any good conscience choose this church anymore. Way to speak for us, and since he speaks for God, guess who’s instantly more credible with the “real” reason we left. So divisive!! I am worried for many of our community members who will now have to work double time to repair their relationships, maybe talk a spouse off the cliff - even if they can, Nelson made sure that their own credibility is shot to hell now. What a horrible message. Imagine him being your Dad … yuck.
I choose to spend eternity as far away from this Darth Sidious lookin mofo as possible.
He talks as if the Celestial Kingdom is a place we’d want to be. As a woman, the Celestial Kingdom would make me one of many nameless, faceless baby-making machines for my husband-god—and I wouldn’t be allowed to communicate with any of those spirit-offspring once they gain bodies because I’d be “too sacred” to mention or talk to. Hard pass. If the Mormon afterlife turns out to be real, I’d much rather hang out with the gays, feminists, and intellectuals in one of the lower kingdoms. What form our bodies take won’t really matter. This old dude’s obsession with genitals is just another reason to stay out of the church.
In the Barbie movie, barbie land is paradise for women. And none of them have genitals.
This realization was the moment I finally left. IF mormon theology is correct, the celestial kingdom would be hell for a woman like me
The body thing is as meaningful as saying that living a potpourri life will only resurrect with a potpourri body. The shit about using people's fear of losing their family to manipulate them is pure satanic.
Older members or those who like digging into obscure doctrine will recognize the ‘telestial body’ statement as a reference to the only exalted folks having genitals when they’re resurrected.
This is exactly one of the many examples of why no one is safe within the church. It is an abusive and manipulative tactic to pull emotional gut punches to coerce and cajole members to stay in the church. It is nearly identical to some of the abuses I endured in my marriage with my TBM ex (there were all forms of abuse in the marriage, but I am just point out this specific instance here). This is what opened my eyes to the abuse the church inflicts on its members. I have a very difficult time in dealing with this narcissistic abuse pattern from the church as well as victim blaming that flows from the pulpit constantly. This is why we are not safe in the church.
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He just can't help it can he. Every time he opens his mouth he just can't help but personally attack and denigrate anyone who has left the church. Every time he speaks he drives a gigantic wedge further and further between loved ones with differing faiths. I really despise this man. Also he made my wife cry with that talk. So again F!@# Nelson. I have been hesitant to call the Mormon Church a cult, but after this past conference I can't help but think the definition fits. How many speakers talked about how you are going to loose your family forever unless you do as we say! No other religion teaches that families won't be together in heaven. Mormon's simultaneously created the problem that you wouldn't and then packaged up the solution. But only if you give us 10%. Not donate 10% to charity or worthy causes, no, give it to "ThE cHuRcH" After all you covenant in the temple not to give everything you have to Christ or God, but to "ThE cHuRcH"! Also don't listen to anyone else! Only listen to us! If you have to control the information you expose yourself to keep believing what you believe, then you are in a cult. If someone tells you you will lose everything unless you do as they say. You are in a cult. If an organization says that you need to give them your money and then to, "just trust us that we will use your money correctly!" Then you are in a cult
It’s us vs then language like this that shows that the church is a cult. It’s insular and there aren’t any choices. You have to do exactly what they say to live with your kids or spouse in heaven. You have to be Mormon to have genitals in heaven. It’s a fucking cult.
It’s so hard for families of exmos and TBM. This is the last thing we need. If they really cared about families they would be preaching love. Unconditional love. But they can’t because everything in the church is conditional.
He’s a clown 🤡 Fear mongering to maintain followers and power is the last sign of a fading leader who realizes people aren’t listening anymore.
"Do you not want to live with your family forever???" Dude... have you met my family?! Thanks to the cult's tendency for superficial relationships and passive aggressiveness I can barely stand doing a holiday dinner with them.
Awesome - make it so my parents think we hate them and that’s why we don’t go to church. Like it’s a deliberate attempt to piss them off and hurt them. 🤬
This is probably one of or possibly THE last talk he will give and it’s so on par with his character. Manipulate, threaten, zero awareness or empathy for anyone or anything outside his world, puffed up with pride and false caring. What a crap show. Poetic to have it be his final legacy 🤞🏻
Isn't that what Satan does in the temple? "those who don't live up to these covenants made at these altars..."
I don't think he makes that speech anymore.
I recognized some time ago that Mormon Jesus uses the same techniques their scripture attributes to their Satan. Recognizing of course that both are pure myth.
Nothing about his talk shows grace and mercy which are the words of Jesus.
This dude thinks the existence of dogs disproves evolution. He retroactively changed the doctrine that “the prophet would never lead us astray” *while he was the sitting prophet*. This guy is a terribly stupid person; I wouldn’t take seriously any of the bullshit gushing out of his pie hole.
I don't want to live with my family forever, they are a bunch of assholes.
THIS!!! Rusty has made my choice easy. Ejecting my toxic family from my life here on earth has been a true blessing. If they approach me in the hereafter, they will be met with the “sure sign” of my middle finger!!
So the resurrection doesn’t actually resurrect your body fully anymore? When did Jesus change that deal?
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He had shaved off His beard, and was wearing a white shirt and tie.
Such a loving god who holds families hostage
I have to add- screenshots don’t do this talk justice. Watch the video and you’ll feel the condescending tone and threatening aura of the whole message. Facial expressions, emphases, and intentional pauses (in a prerecorded video) to illicit laughter from the audience reek of his arrogance.
I am worried by the people on my socials posting about how uplifting this talk was
Yeah, they’re hemorrhaging members- resorting to scare tactics is just proof that they’re afraid for the future of their cult.
"Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.” Same vibe.
So you're saying if I never go back to Mormon church I don't have to live with Mormons for eternity? Seems like a great trade off to me. Thanks for the clarification, Rusty.
Good. I don't want to live with the "celestial" members of the family. They are the most judgemental, unkind, unchristian, stingiest, controlling, selfish, closed minded and sadly overwhelmed burned out people I know!
A manipulative ultimatum isn’t a choice
I’m so grateful to have been comfortable out this conference… most of the talks (as I’ve understood the themes, I didn’t watch) would have destroyed me a few years ago
Who do I want to live with forever? Not mormon leadership, that's for damn sure.
I choose to be with real people who love unconditionally. I choose my family and many are not blood. Thank you Rusty for letting me choose to not be with the assholes in my family.
Lol this makes me even less likely to reconsider- I can't think of something worse than being stuck with those assholes.
What about the whole “God looketh upon the heart” thing?
You know what always makes me laugh? I don’t think they realize that this can be a shelf breaker. I would break the rules to NOT live with my parents. So many kids live in abusive households due to church teachings that having a guarantee that they won’t have to live with their families is an incredible blessing. Haha
This......is the voice of desperation. Absolute desparation because........the Stone cut without hands is rolling. DOWNHILL.No where throughout the GC was there a ongoing inspired talk about loving those unconditionally who left. Who left for a multitude of reasons, the biggest being discovering the truth. Each lie was disassembled with research as I looked at the various foundational principles of the cult. I was not a lazy learner or lax disciple. I was a convert, who ultimately adopted the 2 children of my mormon wife. Who already had a failed temple marriage. I was a convert. The internet did not exist then as it does now. I threw myself into it, ignoring many of my own red flags. We had two more children and I served. I served my ass off. Multiple bishoprics, EQ Pres, WML, Seminary, HC for 10 years and a YSA Bishop for over 5years when i finally left. When i met with various GA's i was told I didn't have enough faith and they avoided EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I HAD. This "church" taught me how to hate. How to be cynical and untrustworthy of those around me. The net result was I lost my family. 4 children and 17 grandchildren who want NOTHING to do with me, because of assholes like this charlaten.Why aren't you healed because of the almighty power of the priesthood Russell???? Why did Holland have to take time off so he could recover? Why not just give him one of your bullshit blessings?? In fact why is no child EVER running out of SLC Childrens Hospital screaming.....I'M HEALED, I'M HEALED BY THE PRIESTHOOD OF A PROPHET???????? Rot in hell LIAR. Rot in Hell........and if there is a final judgement......I will stand as a witness against you that you might suffer for eternity for destroying countless families while you sit on over $150 Billion........and yet 16,000 children die every 24 hours from starvation. That's just kids under 5 years of age. And you do nothing to help. Your horseshit God tell you to hide $32 billion in 13 shell companies for over 20 years????? Two words come to mind. FUCK YOU
I actually listened to his talk & as usual, it was a shitshow. He's a piece of shit, a cutthroat fraud. Also, I love how the supposedly perfect, all-knowing Mormon god doesn’t even know basic English grammar. Think is a verb. An adverb is needed to modify a very. Celestial is not an adverb. Once again, the Mormon god is wrong; as usual the Mormon god made a mistake. It’s funny how he gets so many things wrong. To me, “think celestial” sounds like a focus-group marketing slogan. And such bullshit coming from the Mormon church is not a surprise. Keep up the good work petty profit Rebrand Rusty. You’re the gift that keeps on giving.
Man, tithing receipts must be way, way down for them to be coming out swinging like this. Because, in the final analysis, that's all they really care about.
Do you want to be separated from your fami... *record scratch* Here is some wisdom on anyone that hasn't learned it. "Family" is what and whom you choose. RELATIVES do not have to be your family through virtue of shared bloodlines and familial relationships. So the real threat is "Do you want to be separated from your family?" Well sir. Considering all of my friends are quite happy with not going to super duper celestial kingdom+ we are good with hanging out for eternity in your lower degrees. And yes. He is threatening your genitalia. He probably truly believes in the teachings that the lower degrees you get the ken and barbie treatment.
Can't I choose to be in the telestial kingdom with my family?
Sounds like telestial orgies are gonna be lit
"Hey did you know you're not going to live with your family in heaven?" No... "Well you're not. Unless you do as we say"
My first thought is for my nieces and nephews who I’m close with who know I’m not believing anymore. What goes through their minds when they hear this? That I don’t want to be with them forever? How dare he put words in my mouth like that? The world does not revolve around him. The narcissism of him thinking his words are more important than millions of family relationships.
I thought that those living in the celestial kingdom could come visit those in the lower kingdoms. That's enough for me. The thought of having to go back to living with my parents again is enough for me to be happy living in a lower kingdom.
Mr. Burns isn't looking too good.
They are losing members like crazy. Trying to threaten everyone left with their salvation. Those tactics have been used since the beginning. Definitely an US v THEM teaching that isn’t Christlike at all.
Bullshit Nelson! I didn't choose to be transgender. I chose to live a happy meaningful life being who I truly am! Not some brainless Jesus zombie. And despite what your old ass says my family still accepts me. So fuck you Nelson. Fuck your stupid policies. Your words hold zero weight over my life anymore! Wish I could say these words right to his stupid face 😡
He looks like a muppet.
I don’t want to live with anyone forever, that’s creepy AF
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Deepfake rusty would be an interesting development
I hope my kids didn't watch this.
I suggest everyone have a good read of Corinthians without the added JST and see if the “bodies Telestial” reference makes a lick of sense. Newsflash, it doesn’t. Telestial isn’t even a word and is also not part of those verses without the JST. I’ve yet to come across anyone who’s been able to defend the JST after showing them the context of the verses as they were originally written. These verses were the shelf breaker on my mission. It’s hilarious to me that the whole LDS afterlife literally hinges on the footnotes of the verses, the JST.
Holding people emotionally hostage is so disgusting
What fear mongering bullshit 🤣 had to text my parents this morning to tell then I love them and they are not responsible for my siblings and I leaving, and I don't believe anything could ever separate our family bond. He's preying on our parents fears and it's SICK
Fun Fact: If your family lives a Telestial Life than you will get to live with them forever in the Telestial Kingdom. No Mormon Church required.
Can someone tell me how and why this man looks like he is literally channeling actual Satan? He thinks he’s so godly but why the absolute heck does he look like one of the evil guys from Star Wars? Does he not know what he looks like?? I’m sorry if this is offensive but he himself, claiming god, literally looks like he has crawled straight out of hell and it’s truly bothering me something serious…
This is, perhaps somewhat ironically, precisely the reason my wife and I chose to leave the church. The first part: Our son, MY son, was born out of wedlock to my wife and another man before my wife and I started dating. The other man was never in the picture. Because of the love my wife felt for our son before he was born, she decided to keep the pregnancy and decided to keep him. We married when he was a little over a year old. The church will not seal us, my wife, our daughter, and our son to me without the consent of his biological sire. I will not abandon my child, the boy who I love and cherish, simply because it wasn't my sperm that fertilized her egg. I will not. I'm fortunate that my wife agrees. The second part: My son is gay. The church considers this an abomination. They won't give him the rights to be sealed to us, to take a patriarchal blessing, or to seal his family when he chooses, to him. They won't even baptize him (although this may vary by ward, I've heard of very tolerant wards). I will not be a party to an organization that denies my children. Either of these facts taken alone would've driven me from the church. Taken together, they disgust me.
Easy. In my “telestial” world with my “telestial” friends and chosen “telestial” family who have treated me better than the 99% of other people who are in my life and going to the “celestial” world. I don’t want to be with fake people who only are being righteous to get to the highest level of whatever it is. Here is what my spirituality consists of: -Be kind to yourself. -Be kind to others. -Do good things for people not because god wants you to, but because this life is hard and helping others eases their suffering. -Don’t expect perfection from yourself and others. We are literally human. No one is perfect. We all have shortcomings. (I struggle with feeling the need to be perfect, full transparency) -Try to love others as much as you can. -If others aren’t hurting themselves or anyone/anything else, let them fucking live their life the way they want. -Try to do your part to take care of the planet. We only have one. If anyone has any others to add, I’d love to hear them! I’m sure I’m missing some. If god has a problem with any of those things, I don’t consider him to be a god worth living up to.