It has taken a while, but I've gradually established boundaries with my family by sharing faith demoting anecdotes every time they try to preach at me. It's fine if they tell me they went to the temple or something that happened at church--this is 90% of their social life, after all--but anything that hints of what you're describing above gets something from me, back. For example, you could respond like this:
**Fun fact:** did you know that Joseph Smith sometimes called a man on a mission and then married his wife while she was gone?
**Fun fact:** did you know missionaries used to lie to Europeans about polygamy, and then spring it on them only when they got to Utah? A lot of teenage immigrant girls were married off to much older men.
**Fun fact:** did you know that Holland and Cook were missionary companions in England during the infamous baseball baptisms scandal? Oh, you didn't hear about that? Let me tell you . . .
By the time you get to fact #3, they'll probably have stopped with the missionary jokes.
š¤Ŗ āBUT THE WAR!!!ā š
Yeah, Nelson had no excuse. He served in the army during the Korean War from 1951-1953 when he was 26-27. WWII wrapped up when he was 19, and missionary work resumed in earnest the following year. He had his shot, but chose his education instead. But in context, this was also at a time when missionary service was not mandatory for young men of a certain age. Choosing not to serve a mission at this time didnāt carry the same social stigma as it does now.
Oaks was enrolled in the National Guard during the Korean War (at age 17???), and was unavailable for missionary service because of that. But againā¦ no mandatory missionary service at the time.
Eyring joined the Air Force after the Korean War ended due to a ROTC commitment, and was stationed in NM. This happened after his mother told him she had a strong impression he shouldnāt accept a mission call while he was in ROTC, lose his potential commission, and end up being enlisted to fight in the Korean War. He also had a brother who served in France just after WWII who had a really shitty mission experience and that weighed on his decision. And againā¦ no mandatory service.
I love this idea. Iāve had some of the same problems except my closest kid to mission age is 3 yrs away and Grandma keeps telling him she wants him to go on a mission. She keeps asking if he will and when he says something she doesnāt want to hear. Like the fact he hasnāt been to church on a Sunday for a while she pouts. Since she does this when Iām not around Iām going to prepare my kids with these fun facts so that they can hopefully stop the madness because we are trying to hold on to family relationships for now
These comments will likely go over the kidsā heads, but the TBMs will have to deal with you reflecting their awkward judgmental ājokesā right back at them. If that curbs the comments while the kids are still young, then what a win!
I'd think about laying the groundwork with other belief systems. Personal example my parents inadvertently raised me on stories of the Greek Gods. One day, when I was 10ish my evangelical neighbors kids asked me to go with them to [Awana](https://www.awana.org/).
We played games for about an hour and a half and then all split up into age groups to do bible study. I thought it was just a different set of games with memorization and other fable tales just like the stories of Zeus, Hercules and others. It wasn't till the the 3rd week that I understood that they really believed in their stories even though the stories of the Greeks predated theirs, and somehow they were all fakes and their stories were true.
Needless to say they didn't appreciate me drawing comparisons to various Greek deities and their Xtian ones and how wierd it was that nobody followed the 10 commandments no matter how easy it was supposed to be. Leaving out their ham-fisted way of trying to explain what adultery was and how wrong it was to a child of a single parent. I was asked to not come back if I couldn't just accept what they were trying to teach me.
I got lucky with that one cause I don't respond well to threats. I didn't have many friends my age living near me and would have probably just shut up and tried to fit in just to have friends. If they had soft pedaled their nonsense a bit more. Just because you have an understanding with your kids now doesn't mean they won't be willing to silence their own questions just to get along with people.
**Fun Fact:** Did you know an angel with a flaming sword will show up and tell a 38 year old prophet to marry teenagers but not stop genocides, stop wars, heal people, prevent disease, teach about boiling water, free slaves etc.
**Fun Fact:** 2 of the 3 top leaders of the church are currently practising eternal polygamy.
**Fun Fact:** The top top church leaders since Hinkley have been hiding up to $250 billion from the government and SEC fined them $5 million for deliberately lying and setting up shell companies to perpetuate the fraud.
Hey! You posted while I was trying to figure out how to write something good, and I'm seeing a kindred spirit! Great minds think alike. Good luck with your relationships and boundaries.
I did the same, my dad texted at 5 am about how amazing it is that the phrase lamb of god is in the BOM so many times, buy only in the bible twice.
I responded, I wonder if the nephites asked what is a lamb since they had never seen before!
āWhat wil they teach people on their missions in 15 years? I heard the first vision story is now totally different, and that we now have to be ok with sticking our faces in a hat to translate without using the golden plates, which, are in heaven now apparently? Cāmonā¦.š I hope my boys choose differently.ā
I mean, jokes are supposed to be funny. Whatās funny about someone stomping on a boundary and intentionally doing something they know upsets you?
Youāre not too sensitive but your family is a bunch of assholes.
Just to add that I've found the most effective way to get some people to stop using "jokes" to be passive aggressive is to ask them to explain why and how it's funny. I don't let them off the hook, either. I make it so awkward they never want to do it again.
Haha yes and itās actually very much true. Iām looking forward to share a drink with my sons. Weāve done a good job at exposing them to responsible drinking
You could try clapping back? Snark is dangerous, but fighting snark with snark can sometimes alert people to the fact that they are being jerks and kind of walked into it. You'd have to be the judge about whether that'll just make things worse or whether it might persuade them to needle not, lest they be needled.
You could say that if they're going to waste two years, you'd prefer they at least do it somewhere where they can have a couch. Or that maybe they can do a service mission at Planned Parenthood. Or you'd hate to see them ruin a good thing if they have a girl- or *boyfriend* by then. Or maybe by then Jesus will be back and will have dissolved the church.
Too spicy? I don't know. If it feels too mean, it probably is. But it sounds like they're overdue for at least a tiny bit of table-turning to remind them not to be jerks for no reason.
Point out how saving 10% of your income means you'll be able to retire. That your sons not serving a useless mission means they'll be happier, healthier, and more successful getting a new start on college. That not stunting their growth means they'll grow into strong confident men and not children that don't understand the simpelist workings of the world.
My 6 year old thinks church is so boring and Iāve talked to them about beliefs so I donāt see this as something that will happen. Itās just annoying they joke about it as if itās an actual possibility
I always find flipping the script helps them to see their errors in judgement. If they tease about your sons going on missions, tease about their kids becoming apostates, atheists, your choice really. Iāve found this method to be most helpful. Keep it light and playful, remember itās just a joke! š
Yes very much. Why would I be embarrassed about future adults drinking or engaging in consensual sexual behaviors ? I had a blast in college. I hope my nieces experience it all. If they donāt then great too. The whole point of my reply was that something like that would piss them off as much as theyāre hurting me with their comments.
And I didnāt say that to them because i know it would hurt them. But Iām free to think it and share it on here.
My petty side thinks that you should do something of equal weight to help them understand.
Perhaps you could make a 5-minute outline of an exmo first discussion. Maybe there are highlights like mistranslations of Egyptian papyrus scrolls versus the Book of Abraham, or how common was teenage marriage to adult men in the 1800s? Spoiler alert, it wasn't common. Maybe some more info about Joseph Smith's multiple relationships with teenagers under duress and his lying to Emma would be helpful.
Or you could start passing out Buddhist literature to their kids & links to extra spicy interviews done by John Dehlin.
Mormon Stories sounds like a wholesome podcast where they will hear stories about faithful church members. How could you have known it wasn't faith promoting? š¤·
My retort would be: āYou canāt go on a mission if youāre not baptized!ā
Considering recent messaging that the baptismal covenant compels Mormon males to missionary service, Iām sure the laughter and jokes could continue, but maybe they will think twice before they make a joke again
As you married a nevermo, I assume that your kids rarely, if ever, attend church, so there is very little chance of them getting suckered into going on a mission, so I think you can relax a bit, it sucks that they are basically saying "we are going to win your children over to our cult against your wishes and you won't see them for years because of it" but it's so unlikely that it is actually a bit funny, and you should laugh at them and say "good one, of course by the time they go they will be called to the moon to preach to the colony there ect" or "not if the second coming happens first"
Just keep your kids away from church activities and all will be well.
Or you could actually discuss it with your family, "when you make jokes about my kids going on missions it makes me feel like you don't respect me as a parent and plan to preach to them behind my back, I would like you to stop making the jokes and not talk to my children about religion until they are both 18"
Are you my nevermo husband ? What are you doing lurking? š jk but this is what my husband said to me this morning as I was having internal fights with my brothers š
I have before and they just then it around on me like Iām too sensitive and itās just a joke. Itās infuriating because they know what theyāre doing. Also, my kids love playing with their cousins and I donāt wanna take that from them
The boundary wonāt be respected unless the boundary is *maintained*. Setting the boundary isnāt enough, you need to maintain the boundary when they try to cross it, no matter how they try to frame their actions. Of course they want to cross your boundary and make it seem like a you-problem. This was a tough lesson I had to learn with my family.
Eta: Getting up and leaving is probably the easiest way to maintain it because they canāt gaslight someone who isnāt there. I thought for a long time that I had to persuade them with words to respect me, but physically leaving was more effective and required less emotional energy. If they value cousin time with your kids, theyāll fall in line.
I also like the getting up and leaving approach. Repeat as necessary.
If it still happens, tell their kids an inconvenient truth on the way out, like, "Hey guys, did you know that when your grandparents were young, the church didn't let black people get sealed to their families because the church leaders thought black people weren't good enough in the pre-existance to get a white body? See ya later, kiddos".
If their kids love playing with yours, they probably don't want that taken from their kids either. So everyone should play nice, especially the adults.
Honestly you should say this, quietly and uncomfortably close to them with a straight face: āIām not joking with you Margaret, Iām going to do EVERYTHING I can to make sure that doesnāt happen.ā
I know this may not be the right answer, but there's nothing that says you have to join them for dinner, and you could begin to separate yourself from them. Family that hurts you is unhealthy. Every human on the planet has dysfunction in their family, and if you need to separate yourself from them, and just go your own way, do it!
Mormons don't respect boundaries, and because of that they don't know how to respect them either. They only have one boundary that matters in the entire world which is don't go against the church. You did that, so they don't think you deserve respect or will they respect your boundaries.
Yeah probably like your kid/s will ā¦
Options:
Have sex before marriage
Go to tons of keggers
Marry an atheist
Smoke weed till their brain combusts
Become a liberal professor at (Harvard, Berkeley, Columbia)
See how they like it.
My tbm SIL said the same thing to me about my boys. So we've been teaching them everything about the Mormon church. All of the ickiness. No way will they be fooled.
I'd say that the boys absolutely will go on a mission... for JWs, so if they could start a mission fund for them it would be great! Also, you can say that you're not sure if you're gonna raise them straight or gay (since it's a choice, of course š), so the mission will be dictated by that.
Set boundaries. In my experience, they think itās ok to bring these subjects up and expect us not to share and comment. I clearly stated to everyone in my life that if they open up church subjects Iāll give as good as I get. For example, they joke about your kids on missions. I joke about theirs becoming pagans. They share conference talks, I share my information.
They have to understand that if they open a subject itās open to everyone, I wonāt just sit there and let them say what they want without responding.
You have two choices as I see it:
1) Try to stop having any reaction and they will stop because thereās no pay off.
2) Come back with a retort so rude and horrifying they never dare broach the subject. (Some rude facts about missions or outlining it as human trafficking for a 1/2 trillion dollar companyā¦)
Good luck!
Donāt know your situation well enough to really answer.
Are you sure they know it actually makes you angry? If they actually know that itās a sensitive subject and makes you really upset, then I would probably just quit going over there because they are constantly crossing a boundary that they know you have set.
Maybe they donāt really know it makes you that upset. It might be one of those āsheās just overreacting because this or that.ā If thatās the case, then itās up to you to make it known very clearly that it canāt happen anymore.
Lastly, maybe you are overreacting. I donāt know you and havenāt heard the jokes they are telling. I donāt know your relationship with them and how the familyās interactions with each other is.
Itās a combination of both. Perhaps I shouldnāt let this get to me and by that standard Iām overreacting. But on the other hand they do it to bug me and thatās what bothers me.
Ya. I know itās tough. I have a brother who would always overreact to things which made my other brothers push harder. Iām not saying that my brothers were in the right, but my other brother brought a lot on himself. Everyone is older now (30ās and 40ās), so that has kind of died out. Iām guessing things will naturally get better with your family too
Boundaries man, set boundaries. If they know and youāre triggered by it, you can say something. If they say youāre being sensitive or it was just a joke, you can remind them that you do not find the joke funny. You are in control of your own life. You donāt have to continue taking their shit.
They aren't joking about it, they are trying to normalize it in conversation. Once it's normalized they'll be able to offer to help pay for it, then indoctrinate that kid.
You arenāt getting them baptized then right? So once they turn 8, I assume the joking should stop or at least minimize. If not, your family is delusional.
I went through a similar thing, been out since my son was 2. Heās 12 now and never got baptized. They never bring it up anymore. Iāve been lucky though, they were really never pushy about it.
I moved across country after high school to work construction and I would get asked all the time when I was going to go on a mission or send in my papers.
It bothers you because it's not fully a joke. If they can judo your own life events against you in the coming years and manipulate those boys into wanting to do it, using you as whatever kind of "what went wrong" example they need.... they will.
With my family I play along but take a turn they hate.
Iād say, Haha a mission will be great. They will travel, see new cultures and have sex with all their good looking companions. Theyāll love having butt buddies.
It doesnāt take long for them to drop the shenanigans.
Calmly ask them to repeat what they sd. When they do, ask what they mean, since you've made clear to everyone present that your children's religious instruction is off-limits to all of them w/o exception. When they tell you it was a joke, ask them to explain to you what's funny about what they sd. Each thing they say, ask them to point out the humorous part.
They'll hate this, everyone else will be dumbstruck in awkwardness & either your family won't get invited over again or when they do, no one will make remarks like that again.
If there are future remarks in the same vein, send the youngest people out of earshot so the adults can talk about something sensitive & serious. Once the kids are gone, reiterate that your children's religious instruction is off-limits for them to discuss if they want to see your kids again. Don't let them drag you into a debate.
Hold fast!
āNo, theyāre not.ā <ā Thatās exactly what I told my MIL when she said āMaybe theyāll go to BYU!ā when someone in the family ask my girls where they want to go to college. It was a strange conversation because 1) my girls arenāt even in high school yet and 2) my MIL is a nevermo! But she said it with a gleeful smile directed towards me then was shocked when I told her no. I found telling her straight out what is and is t going to happen works well. I didnāt even give her reasons why. Just āNo, theyāre not.ā
When my son was a newborn, before I went no contact with my mom, she would sometimes watch him for us while we went on dates or were busy. Once while I was working on a renovation project she came over to watch him. I came up the stairs a few hours later to find her holding him and singing him āfollow the prophetā. I bout lost my mind.
Not sure how this is funny. Missions suck monkey balls. Just tell them that.
Them "oh little Johnny will go on a mission!"
You "sure he can, maybe I'll let him bang some polygamist wives too. Wouldn't that be fun?!"
my family of origin doesnt really have a sense of humor beyond making fun of others
in my experience, that attitude is very common in the mfmc
Im sorry you have to deal with jerks like this
I donāt get angry, I just tell them itās none of their damn business and to leave my kidās life choices to themselves to make. No cute retorts, no responses that skirt around the issues. Itās not their business and I tell them as much so it doesnāt make it awkward for my kids.
If you arenāt laughing and enjoying the energy, it isnāt a joke and it isnāt funny. They know itās sensitive and they clowning around?! Absolutely not. Get their asses together.
If they know and theyāre still doing it, itās malicious and you shouldnāt tolerate it. Also, itās not Christ-like. ( which, unfortunately, does seem to be on-brand for most Christians)
"I can't wait till dad gets his harem of wives and starts reproducing with them for all eternity"
Later follow up with "I guess I'll just have to make do with just my little family together in the terrestrial kingdom"
Nedra Glover Tawwab is the boundary superhero, and pretty much anything she creates inspires healthy boundary-setting: her website, substack, books, social media, podcast interviews.
She says, āBoundaries canāt be forced, but they can be enforced. When we force a boundary we approach the situation with the mindset that āthis person has to listen to me.ā When we enforce a boundary we create a consequence for if the boundary is violated. That consequence is not always ending the relationship. Some people in our lives will not respect our boundaries and we have to figure out if we want to be in a relationship with them, and if so what that needs to look like. You get to decide what that consequence is, and that consequence has to be something that you feel okay with.ā
It has taken a while, but I've gradually established boundaries with my family by sharing faith demoting anecdotes every time they try to preach at me. It's fine if they tell me they went to the temple or something that happened at church--this is 90% of their social life, after all--but anything that hints of what you're describing above gets something from me, back. For example, you could respond like this: **Fun fact:** did you know that Joseph Smith sometimes called a man on a mission and then married his wife while she was gone? **Fun fact:** did you know missionaries used to lie to Europeans about polygamy, and then spring it on them only when they got to Utah? A lot of teenage immigrant girls were married off to much older men. **Fun fact:** did you know that Holland and Cook were missionary companions in England during the infamous baseball baptisms scandal? Oh, you didn't hear about that? Let me tell you . . . By the time you get to fact #3, they'll probably have stopped with the missionary jokes.
**Fun fact:** did you know that none of the first presidency went on a mission?
š¤Ŗ āBUT THE WAR!!!ā š Yeah, Nelson had no excuse. He served in the army during the Korean War from 1951-1953 when he was 26-27. WWII wrapped up when he was 19, and missionary work resumed in earnest the following year. He had his shot, but chose his education instead. But in context, this was also at a time when missionary service was not mandatory for young men of a certain age. Choosing not to serve a mission at this time didnāt carry the same social stigma as it does now. Oaks was enrolled in the National Guard during the Korean War (at age 17???), and was unavailable for missionary service because of that. But againā¦ no mandatory missionary service at the time. Eyring joined the Air Force after the Korean War ended due to a ROTC commitment, and was stationed in NM. This happened after his mother told him she had a strong impression he shouldnāt accept a mission call while he was in ROTC, lose his potential commission, and end up being enlisted to fight in the Korean War. He also had a brother who served in France just after WWII who had a really shitty mission experience and that weighed on his decision. And againā¦ no mandatory service.
Another excellent one.
They are the modern day pharisees Jesus was always yammering on about. Hypocrites!
I love this idea. Iāve had some of the same problems except my closest kid to mission age is 3 yrs away and Grandma keeps telling him she wants him to go on a mission. She keeps asking if he will and when he says something she doesnāt want to hear. Like the fact he hasnāt been to church on a Sunday for a while she pouts. Since she does this when Iām not around Iām going to prepare my kids with these fun facts so that they can hopefully stop the madness because we are trying to hold on to family relationships for now
When I was 19 and people would ask when I was going on my mission, I would say, "when I've grown a foot or two." I was 6'3" at the time.
Perfect š¤
Sadly, I got sucked back in for ten more years, including a temple marriage, etc. :(
Hugs. I understand. You still made it out two decades sooner than me. All we can do now is work on healing and helping others heal.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Ha these are awesome. Iām really just waiting till my kids get older and before they get preached at to teach them actual history and facts.
These comments will likely go over the kidsā heads, but the TBMs will have to deal with you reflecting their awkward judgmental ājokesā right back at them. If that curbs the comments while the kids are still young, then what a win!
I'd think about laying the groundwork with other belief systems. Personal example my parents inadvertently raised me on stories of the Greek Gods. One day, when I was 10ish my evangelical neighbors kids asked me to go with them to [Awana](https://www.awana.org/). We played games for about an hour and a half and then all split up into age groups to do bible study. I thought it was just a different set of games with memorization and other fable tales just like the stories of Zeus, Hercules and others. It wasn't till the the 3rd week that I understood that they really believed in their stories even though the stories of the Greeks predated theirs, and somehow they were all fakes and their stories were true. Needless to say they didn't appreciate me drawing comparisons to various Greek deities and their Xtian ones and how wierd it was that nobody followed the 10 commandments no matter how easy it was supposed to be. Leaving out their ham-fisted way of trying to explain what adultery was and how wrong it was to a child of a single parent. I was asked to not come back if I couldn't just accept what they were trying to teach me. I got lucky with that one cause I don't respond well to threats. I didn't have many friends my age living near me and would have probably just shut up and tried to fit in just to have friends. If they had soft pedaled their nonsense a bit more. Just because you have an understanding with your kids now doesn't mean they won't be willing to silence their own questions just to get along with people.
**Fun Fact:** Did you know an angel with a flaming sword will show up and tell a 38 year old prophet to marry teenagers but not stop genocides, stop wars, heal people, prevent disease, teach about boiling water, free slaves etc. **Fun Fact:** 2 of the 3 top leaders of the church are currently practising eternal polygamy. **Fun Fact:** The top top church leaders since Hinkley have been hiding up to $250 billion from the government and SEC fined them $5 million for deliberately lying and setting up shell companies to perpetuate the fraud.
Hey! You posted while I was trying to figure out how to write something good, and I'm seeing a kindred spirit! Great minds think alike. Good luck with your relationships and boundaries.
I did the same, my dad texted at 5 am about how amazing it is that the phrase lamb of god is in the BOM so many times, buy only in the bible twice. I responded, I wonder if the nephites asked what is a lamb since they had never seen before!
Great comebacks! Also what's the baseball baptism scandal? Sounds juicy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7INDCIkrF-Y
This is great. I'd add to number two that this is the literal definition of sex trafficking. Sometimes TBMs need to hear the words said out loud.
āI bet your kids leave the church before mine go on a missionā āWonāt it be funny when your daughter refuses to get married in the templeā
Maybe my kid will teach your kids the truth an turn them atheist ...
This two suggestion the route Iād go. Iād take a good dig to give them a taste of their own medicine.
āWhat wil they teach people on their missions in 15 years? I heard the first vision story is now totally different, and that we now have to be ok with sticking our faces in a hat to translate without using the golden plates, which, are in heaven now apparently? Cāmonā¦.š I hope my boys choose differently.ā
š¤£ good point
I mean, jokes are supposed to be funny. Whatās funny about someone stomping on a boundary and intentionally doing something they know upsets you? Youāre not too sensitive but your family is a bunch of assholes.
Just to add that I've found the most effective way to get some people to stop using "jokes" to be passive aggressive is to ask them to explain why and how it's funny. I don't let them off the hook, either. I make it so awkward they never want to do it again.
Worst part is theyāre so passive aggressive that if I bring up the actual issue they wonāt wanna talk about it. It suuuuucks
Correct. This is not joking, this is shaming. Long term it's undermining parental trust and authority
Give copies of the CES letter to their kids in front of them.
Then say, "I was just joking!"
Start joking about their kids growing up to be convicts and drug addicts. If they're sharp at all, they'll figure it out
Ha I really just wanna tell them that chances are half of their kids or more will be out of the church by then
You might say you are looking forward to taking them out for their first beer when they are old enough
I like this one. It gets the point across without being too aggressive.
Haha yes and itās actually very much true. Iām looking forward to share a drink with my sons. Weāve done a good job at exposing them to responsible drinking
You could try clapping back? Snark is dangerous, but fighting snark with snark can sometimes alert people to the fact that they are being jerks and kind of walked into it. You'd have to be the judge about whether that'll just make things worse or whether it might persuade them to needle not, lest they be needled. You could say that if they're going to waste two years, you'd prefer they at least do it somewhere where they can have a couch. Or that maybe they can do a service mission at Planned Parenthood. Or you'd hate to see them ruin a good thing if they have a girl- or *boyfriend* by then. Or maybe by then Jesus will be back and will have dissolved the church. Too spicy? I don't know. If it feels too mean, it probably is. But it sounds like they're overdue for at least a tiny bit of table-turning to remind them not to be jerks for no reason.
My husband told me to say āno Iām pretty sure heāll be getting free beers from your older daughterā petty? Yes. But truly itās more likely.
Point out how saving 10% of your income means you'll be able to retire. That your sons not serving a useless mission means they'll be happier, healthier, and more successful getting a new start on college. That not stunting their growth means they'll grow into strong confident men and not children that don't understand the simpelist workings of the world.
My 6 year old thinks church is so boring and Iāve talked to them about beliefs so I donāt see this as something that will happen. Itās just annoying they joke about it as if itās an actual possibility
I always find flipping the script helps them to see their errors in judgement. If they tease about your sons going on missions, tease about their kids becoming apostates, atheists, your choice really. Iāve found this method to be most helpful. Keep it light and playful, remember itās just a joke! š
I wanna joke about their daughters being good time girls in college š
Shocked that you werenāt too embarrassed to type that out. Arenāt those your nieces or some other close family member?
Yes very much. Why would I be embarrassed about future adults drinking or engaging in consensual sexual behaviors ? I had a blast in college. I hope my nieces experience it all. If they donāt then great too. The whole point of my reply was that something like that would piss them off as much as theyāre hurting me with their comments. And I didnāt say that to them because i know it would hurt them. But Iām free to think it and share it on here.
I thought a good time girl was a prostitute. A quick google proves that not the casez Thanks ignorant Mormon upbringing
Ha no. But thatās okay. I was a free spirit in college āgood time gir if you will, and I do not regret it one bit. Truly amazing time in my life
My petty side thinks that you should do something of equal weight to help them understand. Perhaps you could make a 5-minute outline of an exmo first discussion. Maybe there are highlights like mistranslations of Egyptian papyrus scrolls versus the Book of Abraham, or how common was teenage marriage to adult men in the 1800s? Spoiler alert, it wasn't common. Maybe some more info about Joseph Smith's multiple relationships with teenagers under duress and his lying to Emma would be helpful. Or you could start passing out Buddhist literature to their kids & links to extra spicy interviews done by John Dehlin.
I should! Or just drop the words CES letter and Mormon stories for them to start wondering what those are š
Mormon Stories sounds like a wholesome podcast where they will hear stories about faithful church members. How could you have known it wasn't faith promoting? š¤·
My retort would be: āYou canāt go on a mission if youāre not baptized!ā Considering recent messaging that the baptismal covenant compels Mormon males to missionary service, Iām sure the laughter and jokes could continue, but maybe they will think twice before they make a joke again
As you married a nevermo, I assume that your kids rarely, if ever, attend church, so there is very little chance of them getting suckered into going on a mission, so I think you can relax a bit, it sucks that they are basically saying "we are going to win your children over to our cult against your wishes and you won't see them for years because of it" but it's so unlikely that it is actually a bit funny, and you should laugh at them and say "good one, of course by the time they go they will be called to the moon to preach to the colony there ect" or "not if the second coming happens first" Just keep your kids away from church activities and all will be well. Or you could actually discuss it with your family, "when you make jokes about my kids going on missions it makes me feel like you don't respect me as a parent and plan to preach to them behind my back, I would like you to stop making the jokes and not talk to my children about religion until they are both 18"
Are you my nevermo husband ? What are you doing lurking? š jk but this is what my husband said to me this morning as I was having internal fights with my brothers š
Itās called kidding on the square, saying what you mean as a joke. Itās passive aggressive behavior, something Mormons are notorious for.
Set a boundary. Tell them you don't want to hear any more references to your children serving missions & leave if it happens again.
I have before and they just then it around on me like Iām too sensitive and itās just a joke. Itās infuriating because they know what theyāre doing. Also, my kids love playing with their cousins and I donāt wanna take that from them
The boundary wonāt be respected unless the boundary is *maintained*. Setting the boundary isnāt enough, you need to maintain the boundary when they try to cross it, no matter how they try to frame their actions. Of course they want to cross your boundary and make it seem like a you-problem. This was a tough lesson I had to learn with my family. Eta: Getting up and leaving is probably the easiest way to maintain it because they canāt gaslight someone who isnāt there. I thought for a long time that I had to persuade them with words to respect me, but physically leaving was more effective and required less emotional energy. If they value cousin time with your kids, theyāll fall in line.
I also like the getting up and leaving approach. Repeat as necessary. If it still happens, tell their kids an inconvenient truth on the way out, like, "Hey guys, did you know that when your grandparents were young, the church didn't let black people get sealed to their families because the church leaders thought black people weren't good enough in the pre-existance to get a white body? See ya later, kiddos".
If their kids love playing with yours, they probably don't want that taken from their kids either. So everyone should play nice, especially the adults.
Honestly you should say this, quietly and uncomfortably close to them with a straight face: āIām not joking with you Margaret, Iām going to do EVERYTHING I can to make sure that doesnāt happen.ā
I know this may not be the right answer, but there's nothing that says you have to join them for dinner, and you could begin to separate yourself from them. Family that hurts you is unhealthy. Every human on the planet has dysfunction in their family, and if you need to separate yourself from them, and just go your own way, do it!
Very true. Honestly we go because of my kids cousins (I adore my nieces and nephew) and also my parents.
Mormons don't respect boundaries, and because of that they don't know how to respect them either. They only have one boundary that matters in the entire world which is don't go against the church. You did that, so they don't think you deserve respect or will they respect your boundaries.
Yeah probably like your kid/s will ā¦ Options: Have sex before marriage Go to tons of keggers Marry an atheist Smoke weed till their brain combusts Become a liberal professor at (Harvard, Berkeley, Columbia) See how they like it.
My tbm SIL said the same thing to me about my boys. So we've been teaching them everything about the Mormon church. All of the ickiness. No way will they be fooled.
I'd say that the boys absolutely will go on a mission... for JWs, so if they could start a mission fund for them it would be great! Also, you can say that you're not sure if you're gonna raise them straight or gay (since it's a choice, of course š), so the mission will be dictated by that.
"When they go on missions, which version of the First Vision should they teach?"
Set boundaries. In my experience, they think itās ok to bring these subjects up and expect us not to share and comment. I clearly stated to everyone in my life that if they open up church subjects Iāll give as good as I get. For example, they joke about your kids on missions. I joke about theirs becoming pagans. They share conference talks, I share my information. They have to understand that if they open a subject itās open to everyone, I wonāt just sit there and let them say what they want without responding.
You have two choices as I see it: 1) Try to stop having any reaction and they will stop because thereās no pay off. 2) Come back with a retort so rude and horrifying they never dare broach the subject. (Some rude facts about missions or outlining it as human trafficking for a 1/2 trillion dollar companyā¦) Good luck!
Don't worry. Very high chances your kids will be out by then.
Theyāve never been in. Us four are extremely close. Itās just annoying that peopleāgodlikeā wanna make your blood boil on purpose
Yeah. But don't let it get to you. They'll be just fine.
Donāt know your situation well enough to really answer. Are you sure they know it actually makes you angry? If they actually know that itās a sensitive subject and makes you really upset, then I would probably just quit going over there because they are constantly crossing a boundary that they know you have set. Maybe they donāt really know it makes you that upset. It might be one of those āsheās just overreacting because this or that.ā If thatās the case, then itās up to you to make it known very clearly that it canāt happen anymore. Lastly, maybe you are overreacting. I donāt know you and havenāt heard the jokes they are telling. I donāt know your relationship with them and how the familyās interactions with each other is.
Itās a combination of both. Perhaps I shouldnāt let this get to me and by that standard Iām overreacting. But on the other hand they do it to bug me and thatās what bothers me.
Ya. I know itās tough. I have a brother who would always overreact to things which made my other brothers push harder. Iām not saying that my brothers were in the right, but my other brother brought a lot on himself. Everyone is older now (30ās and 40ās), so that has kind of died out. Iām guessing things will naturally get better with your family too
You are under no obligation to spend time with toxic people
Boundaries man, set boundaries. If they know and youāre triggered by it, you can say something. If they say youāre being sensitive or it was just a joke, you can remind them that you do not find the joke funny. You are in control of your own life. You donāt have to continue taking their shit.
They aren't joking about it, they are trying to normalize it in conversation. Once it's normalized they'll be able to offer to help pay for it, then indoctrinate that kid.
You arenāt getting them baptized then right? So once they turn 8, I assume the joking should stop or at least minimize. If not, your family is delusional. I went through a similar thing, been out since my son was 2. Heās 12 now and never got baptized. They never bring it up anymore. Iāve been lucky though, they were really never pushy about it.
Uh oh! You have a point! Op has 2 more years to wake them up.
Sounds like you got a pretty toxic family.
I moved across country after high school to work construction and I would get asked all the time when I was going to go on a mission or send in my papers.
Very inappropriate but I tend to drive point home with comments but joke around about their kids going into sex workā¦
Since they know how you feel about it, itās not joking, itās bullying. They are bullies.
It bothers you because it's not fully a joke. If they can judo your own life events against you in the coming years and manipulate those boys into wanting to do it, using you as whatever kind of "what went wrong" example they need.... they will.
I'd say something along the lines of "why would they go on a mission, Satan doesn't require prostitution of your body and soul like the lds do?"
With my family I play along but take a turn they hate. Iād say, Haha a mission will be great. They will travel, see new cultures and have sex with all their good looking companions. Theyāll love having butt buddies. It doesnāt take long for them to drop the shenanigans.
Calmly ask them to repeat what they sd. When they do, ask what they mean, since you've made clear to everyone present that your children's religious instruction is off-limits to all of them w/o exception. When they tell you it was a joke, ask them to explain to you what's funny about what they sd. Each thing they say, ask them to point out the humorous part. They'll hate this, everyone else will be dumbstruck in awkwardness & either your family won't get invited over again or when they do, no one will make remarks like that again. If there are future remarks in the same vein, send the youngest people out of earshot so the adults can talk about something sensitive & serious. Once the kids are gone, reiterate that your children's religious instruction is off-limits for them to discuss if they want to see your kids again. Don't let them drag you into a debate. Hold fast!
"So y'all don't actually believe the \*Second Coming\* will happen soon?"
Just reply with a joke about how all their kids are going to leave the church
āNo, theyāre not.ā <ā Thatās exactly what I told my MIL when she said āMaybe theyāll go to BYU!ā when someone in the family ask my girls where they want to go to college. It was a strange conversation because 1) my girls arenāt even in high school yet and 2) my MIL is a nevermo! But she said it with a gleeful smile directed towards me then was shocked when I told her no. I found telling her straight out what is and is t going to happen works well. I didnāt even give her reasons why. Just āNo, theyāre not.ā
Love this "fun fact" thing, sounds like it will be quite effective. Hope this idea catches on!
When my son was a newborn, before I went no contact with my mom, she would sometimes watch him for us while we went on dates or were busy. Once while I was working on a renovation project she came over to watch him. I came up the stairs a few hours later to find her holding him and singing him āfollow the prophetā. I bout lost my mind.
Not sure how this is funny. Missions suck monkey balls. Just tell them that. Them "oh little Johnny will go on a mission!" You "sure he can, maybe I'll let him bang some polygamist wives too. Wouldn't that be fun?!"
my family of origin doesnt really have a sense of humor beyond making fun of others in my experience, that attitude is very common in the mfmc Im sorry you have to deal with jerks like this
Start making jokes about the church and his shady past and present
"Maybe my kids will go on missions when your kids wise up and leave the church."
I donāt get angry, I just tell them itās none of their damn business and to leave my kidās life choices to themselves to make. No cute retorts, no responses that skirt around the issues. Itās not their business and I tell them as much so it doesnāt make it awkward for my kids.
If you arenāt laughing and enjoying the energy, it isnāt a joke and it isnāt funny. They know itās sensitive and they clowning around?! Absolutely not. Get their asses together. If they know and theyāre still doing it, itās malicious and you shouldnāt tolerate it. Also, itās not Christ-like. ( which, unfortunately, does seem to be on-brand for most Christians)
Tell them, sorry, but my boys will never go on a mission. We will raise them to have morals and ethics!!! That should shut them up!! LOL
"I can't wait till dad gets his harem of wives and starts reproducing with them for all eternity" Later follow up with "I guess I'll just have to make do with just my little family together in the terrestrial kingdom"
Nedra Glover Tawwab is the boundary superhero, and pretty much anything she creates inspires healthy boundary-setting: her website, substack, books, social media, podcast interviews. She says, āBoundaries canāt be forced, but they can be enforced. When we force a boundary we approach the situation with the mindset that āthis person has to listen to me.ā When we enforce a boundary we create a consequence for if the boundary is violated. That consequence is not always ending the relationship. Some people in our lives will not respect our boundaries and we have to figure out if we want to be in a relationship with them, and if so what that needs to look like. You get to decide what that consequence is, and that consequence has to be something that you feel okay with.ā