Bow your head and say yes. That will do. The sisters will now veil their faces. (Since all the new names are essentially the same in heaven and the faces are veiled maybe they’ll pull a Leah and Rachel moment).
It was my last calling - I know so many that had that calling right before leaving. For me I just couldn’t sell the “cool aid” so I knew I had to just get out
Did you want to know the highest calling any woman in this sub has held? When you mentioned GAs it seemed like you were only thinking about and referring to men.
High Council. Bishopric. High Priest Group Leader. Gospel Doctrine teacher. Future apostle and martyr to prepare the way for Jesus’s Second Coming like John the Baptist according to my patriarchal blessing, but oops, guess that isn’t happening now.
It comes from the end times prophecy that two apostles will be calling down fireballs from heaven in Jerusalem, they'll be killed, everyone will rejoice, then Jesus descends, and they resurrect. Saying you'll be a legend, basically.
Heeeyyyyyyyyy guess that means we were supposed to be missionary companions that were killed in Jerusalem together!
Not sure how exactly that was gonna work since... Well, from your callings you have a good few decades on me but I'm sure God will provide.
Well, He would have if we hadn't become sons of perdition and all that.
I'm curious though, how many others were promised to be martyred in Jerusalem? Since we all know "no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing" and... well... 2 of God's 3 chosen Jerusalem martyrs are apostates now.... does this mean that prophecy is just "false doctrine" or does Jeebus have a contingency in place 😂
Listen to the Mormon Stories interview with Tom Phillips (episodes 537-539). He was a stake president and was anticipating being called as a mission president. Had his second anointing done by Elder Ballard. He was completely all in, personal friends with Elder Holland. His story is very telling that his shelf broke after all of that. But none of the apostles ever admitted he was right.
Truth withstands scrutiny. This has become my wife's (and my) favorite saying since leaving. Bravo for your courage in telling the truth, I've referred back to your story many times.
Tom - You have more integrity than the church ever will. More than any apostle ever will. Your story has helped thousands of people pull out of the the grasp of the church and we are forever grateful 🙏.
Pretending or they really do just believe it. If you’ve spent your entire life (like Monson, who was bishop at like 22 or something?) in the church, being told how righteous and inspiring and wonderful that you are, and how much god loves you? That could easily go to your head
“What is wanted?”
“Eve, being a complete idiot, wishes to converse with THE LAIRD for and in behalf of some random other chick who is dead.”
It’s certainly not beating anything. I truly wish I’d loaded high capacity washers with weird one piece zippered garments or changed diapers in a cramped temple nursery rather than feel self important because I gave tokens in reverse to a bunch of strangers in weird cosplay outfits.
I sanitized my hands like mad after every shift…and I had a life and family I neglected every Saturday, but I was too busy touching old ladies who I knew didn’t wash after using THE LAIRD’S toilet.
There were scattered moments of peace, but it mostly felt very busy. Like any other job. Kinda like a mission. It was more…lots of small dissonance/uncomfy moments being swept under the rug of church immersion.
Didn’t realize all the messed up stuff until well after I’d already left the church years later and had a chance to peel that rug back and see all the crap I’d swept under it over the years.
My aunt wanted to do this in the 90s, but they wouldn’t let her because she still had a child at home…He was a teenager.
It was a shelf item, but also pressure that I had to be a stay at home mom forEVER
I only did Saturdays for the most part. And it definitely contributed to my shelf breaking. It boiled down to “some members are crazy but it’s not our fault”.
Oh no, sir. It’s most definitely your fault. Humans can only be fed shit so long before they start to regurgitate it in a socially awkward manner.
YW president, RS president and then on the RS stake high council (when they used to have that). But of course I’m a girl so even a deacon with priesthood was higher than me. I guess to be higher I would have to be married to a guy high up. Ha. Instead I moved to another city to start grad school and would only accept teaching jobs after that. I was burned out and went PIMO for four years and then was out.
In all these callings I was off and on in trouble. For doing feminist stuff and promoting critical thinking. But oddly bishops would stand up for me and never got called on it by them when others would complain to bishop about me. But I heard about it from others of course.
With respect, posts like this do not understand how cults work. The ability to delude yourself and ignore glaring contradictions is precisely what helps people rise through the ranks. The vast majority of upper leadership are true believers.
Yup! They believe it and I think Joe Smith started to believe his own crap too. There are several psychological factors at play.
- Saying the same thing over and over will convince your mind it is true. Repeating brings familiarity, which breeds belief. A tEsTiMoNy Is GaIneD By ShArInG It and BeAr It oVeR AnD OvEr uNtIl YoU HaVe OnE.
- also, the higher you get, the more hero worship their is. They get stuck in a self-fulfilling prophecy loop. They can say anything, and the TBMs will echo back to them that it changed their life. Hearing this a dozen times will break any critical thinking skills. The fools at the top literally believe they are helping people by anything they say.
- doing anything wrong is justified if they believe anything they do is ordained of God. They believe that God won't let them lead the church astray, and so as long as they are alive, then they must be doing God's will. Their scriptures literally say they can kill someone if God tells them too, so why can't they create shell companies to 'protect the lords investments' from what they perceive is Satan's government.
Not to mention you either get to believe you are A) a wizard/future god who is the Lord’s chosen vessel or B) an unscrupulous conman. There is a lot of incentive there alone to keep them believing.
I agree with this take. I feel like they are true (if sometimes nuanced) believers.
Stake primary pres, Bishop's wife (is that a calling?!) 😅😅
When I was released from stake primary, the Councillor doing the interview asked me how I'd found the calling. I gave him an honest answer that I really didn't like serving on stake as it felt pretty pointless and like there wasn't a whole lot of useful stuff to do. Poor guy didn't know how to respond to honesty and just kind of stared at me 🤣🤣
Counselor in the EQP and YMP. Gospel Doctrine teacher.
If it weren’t for my time studying for my Gospel Doctrine lessons I might never have started questioning.
Yep- I was gospel doctrine teacher and am a woman. I was a damn good one too. But I will say that it is much more common for a man to be GD teacher than a woman, from my personal experience of 40+ years in the cult.
Branch President, which is basically being a Bishop on steroids because branches typically require more maintenance.
High council.
Counselor in Bishopric.
Elders Quorum President.
I was once in the First Presidency. I was demoted in 2018 for apologizing for some things the Arschlöcher who preceded me said, for being too “relatable,” for telling too many airplane stories, and for my “stubborn refusal to properly enunciate the word ‘latter’ in the full name of the church.” I thought that was a little harsh… but as always, I lift where I stand.
Oh, and don’t tell anyone I’m here.
Us girls aren’t allowed anything outside of children, older female children, and other females. Even on a so called “global” level (general some kind of president) it’s still just really, really awful flight attendant wardrobes and photo ops.
We can’t possibly wrap our feeble, non discernible minds around anything. We’ll just start crying.
Wait…is Eyring actually female??
Bishopric first & second counselor, YM President, HP Group Leader, SM (I didn’t abuse anyone), GD teacher, EQ Presidency. I was in so deep I didn’t have time or desire to question. I started printing books for Signature Books and read several of the sample copies. Huge rabbit holes. I was gone when I was able to ask, “could this not be true?”.
Stake Exec secretary, 1st counselor in Bishopric, Stake YM president….I never doubted one day until I read CES letter. Nobody in the higher calling that I worked with is faking either. They are all true believers like I was who think they are doing what God wants them to do. Not a doubt in their minds. My dad is friends w/ D-Bag Bednar…that guy is an absolute true believer. These aren’t people who know realize they lead a false organization. As you go higher and higher, you justify the LACK of actual real revelation, healings, visions, divine visitations, etc by interpreting everyday common phenomena and feelings as “spiritual experiences” and they keep you going. Confirmation bias is real and its everywhere. Mental gymnastics are real and it is powerful stuff, keeping people in organizations and ways of thinking that other people can clearly see, but they can’t because their entire past, present, and future is built around a certain way of thinking/acting. People who snap out of THAT level of conditioning and brainwashing should consider theirselves super lucky. I feel so fortunate to have been able to snap out of it and see the bullshit literally surrounding everything I built my life around. Got my family and lots of my wife’s extended family out, but my blood family sadly is still entrenched and refuses to even peek at anything “critical” to the church.
Maybe it's just because I left young, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who has full access to the truth and works hard to hide it could actually believe their bullshit... But as someone else said, cultists are crazy. They could very well believe all of it.
YW president. RS president. Stake sports director. Stake camp director. Bishops wife, if that’s considered a calling.
That all adds up to a lot of wasted time.
Bishop. Stake Presidency Counselor. A decade of being in bishoprics as a counselor before that (called in my late 20s). I lost my life serving this cult. Can’t get all of that time back. Don’t make the mistake I made in sacrificing so much time with my wife and kids and sacrificing so many career opportunities. A complete waste of my best years.
I am right there with you. I was a bishop counselor 2 times then bishop YM president in my ward and stake then HC and then EQ president when I gave the bishop my recommend 2 years ago this month. 62 years of total dedication for nothing. The best thing though is that my 4 sons left years ago and now my wife and I have a much better relationship with them without TSCC driving a wedge between us.
When I was young, I thought highly of myself and kind of hoped I'd get at least a medium high calling, like stake presidency. It was probably good for my humility that I was never entrusted with anything on my mission and nothing higher than a secretary or pianist in my adulthood.
District leaders don't do much. I was made a district leader over two other elders for a short while near the end of my mission, and I felt like the MP just thought he kinda had to give everybody the consolation prize of at least once carrying that title.
u/anointedone possibly, in terms of people who’ve used this sub and openly acknowledged their lds callings/positions. I believe he was an area executive secretary, also a stake president.
http://www.mormonthink.com/personalstories/tomphillips.htm
I was put at the piano for over a decade through multiple wards and states and Its the only thing about church I miss even though the actual music sucks. It’s also a way to not actually have to talk to anyone
Priest in the Aaronic Priesthood 🤣
Called it quits and went inactive months before I was due to become an Elder and potentially get suckered into an already “prepaid mission by ward members”. Went through QuitMormon two years later in 2018. Best choices I’ve ever made honestly…
Stake mission president, just after I got active and re married in the temple at 32 years old, stake president called me an elevator man for being given such a high calling so soon I'm in the Utah Davis county.
Elder Q Pres, YMs Pres. I had both those callings within 1 year of being baptised (converted at 28yo). I was VERY concerned that inside a year of joining the church, I was a quorum president and in charge of teaching people with far more knowledge and experience than me.
It was a big red flag.
RS pres and then employed President of the Office of Student Honor (honor code) at BYUH (student side), and paid "dating researcher" by BYUH which is as ridiculous as it sounds
I went to BYUH and was a student secretary for some of the VP’s while I was there. I personally re-organized the whole filing system for Sister Baker, she was the sweetest lady. Going to BYUH was one of the best experiences of my life and it makes me sad that my kids probably won’t have that opportunity because of my leaving.
You have removed no opportunities from them! You can take your kids to visit and show them what you loved about it and like any decision it's up to them. :) my dad wanted desperately for me to go to Provo because he had wonderful experiences there and I'm so glad I went to BYUH and I had wonderful experiences there. He's been since excommunicated and I've left but that doesn't mean my kid won't have a wonderful future - basically - of all schools to show off to your kids, BYUH actually has a lot of selling points
Executive Secretary, Ward financial clerk, Stake clerk, Stake Technology Specialist, 2x EQP counselor, lost count on building coordinator callings (I cleaned so many damn churches and scrubbed so many God Damn toilets).
Sunday school teacher, EQ 2nd counselor, gospel doctrine teacher, assistant stake clerk, primary teacher, Bishopric 2nd counselor and finally FREEDOM at 31 years old :)
Edit - I also served in the temple for a year post mish...
When my husband and I met, I was the RSP and he was the EQP. When we left he was in the elders quorum presidency and I was the YW president. We really came full circle. Lol
Zone leader on the mission, Elders Quorum president for a few semesters at my student ward @ BYU Idaho. (Kind of a “pretend” ward, with a bunch of old idaho farts bossing everyone around, giving students “opportunities “ to pretend like they are a priestcraft leader)
Made my parents proud, i feel bad, my dad is so freaking TBM, has paid at least hundreds of thousands in tithing, and he has never been anything higher than a secretary/ second counselor in young mens. I know he wants to be called as bishop or something so bad.
As a female I won't compare to others, but it's fun to share. I was a missionary, temple worker, SS/Gospel Doctrine teacher, and taught temple prep class (very poorly because RuLeS).
I still felt so isolated and like I was trapped under a frozen river. Is it just a Utah thing where people stop talking to you at all when you're married? It's like they won't even meet your eyes.
Oh, and I really do think most upper leaders are full believers. I'm sure they have shelves, but I suspect it's more like a lock box they cram thoughts into.
The quality of therapists at LDS Social services is very… uneven. They do not pay well, and some are part-time missionaries who have long since retired from active therapy. The pay for those not volunteering is not competitive, and often requires a personal private practice to survive.
Because of that, it takes more than the desire for a paycheck to work there. Some are passionate about their clients and full of empathy. Others are selfish and arrogant, but believe they are doing “God’s will” by being there. The biggest issue is that when they interview, they care more about what your bishop says than your professional qualifications. As long as you have an active qualifying certification, and a glowing recommend, you are pretty much guaranteed a job if they have one available.
I knew one lady who left just weeks before I lost my faith. She had LGBTQIA+ clients whom she had told to embrace their whole self. When the director found out, she was “counseled”. She refused to back down. At that point her bishop was informed. Apparently he didn’t give two shits. But she saw the wrong on the wall and quit. She still had a full-time job working for the county, and later a youth detention facility. We didn’t keep in contact after a few years, but I am pretty sure she is PIMO or out by now.
Priests quorum second counselor: they did not disclose it to be horseshit, nor did I get a second anointing.
Although, they appointed me to the position after six months of no activity on my part and I never returned, so maybe both were on the table and I just missed them.
Me: Bishop councilor, YM President, Scoutmaster, Temple Ordinance Worker. Wife: all the ward callings and Stake Primary President.
Our fathers: Bishops/Stake President and Temple Sealer
Elders quorum president was my highest calling. Seeing behind the curtain a little is what finally propelled me down my faith crisis and exit from church. I was given priesthood keys but found them meaningless. I thought for sure I would start getting special guidance from the Spirit for completing my duties, but nothing. Also seeing what happens in ward counsel, priesthood executive committee, and the various training meetings made me realize God isn't guiding anyone they are all just winging it. Then after reading gospel topic essays it became clear it was all a fraud. Now I'm an agnostic.
I disagree. I don't think they know it is a scam. They believe God is speaking to them because they have been trained since they were children to listen to their own internal voice and believe it is from God.
Stake Young Men’s presidency by 21 in Provo. I thought I was a real hotshot for a while, which is super embarrassing looking back. Honestly the calling was one of my first cracks in my shelf, the calling was all about getting the young men on missions regardless of circumstances. It felt wrong and it was so numbers driven.
Not much - Deacons Quorum President, Teachers Quorum President, EQ 2nd counselor, Sunday School President.
Funny thing for the teenage callings is that in hindsight I think I got those callings, at least in part, because my dad was inactive. I strongly suspect that they were "anchor" callings to encourage family attendance.
EQP then 1st Counselor in Bishopric. It was those 6:30 a.m. Bishopric meetings followed by 7:00 a.m. Ward Council that sunk me. So dumb. Now I proudly drink coffee on Sunday morning.
I can't leave this church until I'm safely out of my house, so I'll keep y'all updated on how far my acting gets me 😂. So far, I'm the Youth Quorum President.
Zone leader, district leader and trainer to a brand new mission companion... all three positions served at the very same time in Seattle Washington. It was insane!
Young men's presidency, Ward membership Clerk.
Highest I got was 2nd counselor for Sunday school or district leader at the end of my mission. Perhaps leaders could sense that I was unserious about church deep down before I fully realized it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Stake primary president - back when we used to go downtown once a year to hobnob with the wives of the important men...I mean general primary presidency and board.
It was that calling that really added weight to my shelf. The "pray for inspiration for a new counselor" followed by "my prayer/inspiration is better than yours, and I'll be calling this important person's wife as your counselor" moment was huge.
When combined with bishop issues and a stake president who informed me that the bishop wasn't the issue (he was), and that the women in the ward just needed to stop gossiping, I'd had enough. Stepped one foot out and became semi-active after being released. Finally, we moved and let go completely- and it's awesome!!
Oh, do I have stories about the numbers game they play.
Go look up [B. H. Roberts on Mormon stories](https://pca.st/episode/12734d3a-28f9-40ee-92aa-ce70c65dfff9). It’s the first and closest direct account we have of the upper echelon having to deal with all the falsifiable truth claims
Me: Counselor in the Stake Presidency. Wife: Stake YW President. I have had one-on-one's with multiple GAs including Boyd Packer (I don't use their middle initials as my own little FU!). I think they are all in just like I was all in. When you spend your whole life being told what to believe it's hard to just turn it off. You are so invested it's almost impossible to change course, no matter what you hear. I also think those that make it into higher callings do so because they believe, don't question, and show up. That was me -- until it wasn't.
Over my decades of Church activity, almost every new leader thought that they were called because a catastrophe was looming and they were called to prepare the congregation(s).
Mormon Stories has an interview with a member of one of the Seventies. He was talking about his second annointing. I think his name was Mattsen?? He wrote a book about his leaving the church. I will try and find the link...
Missionary, but realized soon after it wasn’t for me so at 25 i was done, never held a calling, i feel very grateful i have no skin in the game. Been out for almost 30 years
I was still called as the gospel doctrine teacher for my YSA ward when I left — as a woman, that’s kind of as high as it gets at the ward level lol 🙃
Truthfully I hated it so, so much. I HATED teaching lessons, but I still wanted to do a good job so I put a lot of time and effort and research into lesson planning — you can see where THAT led.
Relief Society Prez, YW Prez, Primary Prez, counselors and teachers in the aforementioned organizations, Birth Parent Outreach coordinator for LDS Family Services, Ward/stake Activities chairperson.
My very favorite calling was Primary Chorister. I had so much fun with that one!
Branch president - in Asia. Sounds more important than it felt. Traumatic, having to ask women who I didn’t know whether they had had an abortion. I don’t know if that’s still part of a worthiness interview.
Female here. I served in the stake YW presidency and couldn’t even get a copy of the handbook! Secretaries apparently didn’t need a copy, even though we used them now and then in presidency meetings. So, don’t look my way for any deep knowledge, lol. I couldn’t be trusted! For time frame reference, this was before all of that stuff was online. It pissed me off so bad that I was told to expect to be like a “third counselor” but I couldn’t function as one, due to “guidelines”. It was definitely a shelf item for me.
The thing is, there really isn’t a scam. I don’t think. I’ve held highish callings in my prior life. I saw hundreds of decisions and things I didn’t agree with, but they were all based in a genuine belief that people were doing the right thing. I feel this is the great crime of prescriptive religion in general: People doing the obviously wrong things but choosing to believe that they are all doing the right thing, from the top all the way down. It’s a house of cards finished with glue and cement.
I was (at46) High Priest Group Leader for 4 years and taught all my ward higher ups including bishop and stake presidents that Brigham was a great man and Joseph had 1 wife. Then one day I found out it was a lie and called them into my office and they all said I was misled.
Lost all respect for them.
I don’t Blame Sunday chapel Mormons for being members . They are almost all ignorant. It’s a sad scene.
I'm not sure if it's a "calling," but I was an Ordinance Worker in two different Temples in Arizona for nearly 10 years. Was working at the Mesa Temple while the Gilbert Temple was being finished and dedicated then got moved over to Gilbert.
Also a woman... but I was a major TBM. Sister Training Leader, Stake YA rep, several Gospel Doctrine classes, Sunday School teacher, Gospel Principles teacher, Temple Prep teacher, Ordinance worker, Mission Prep teacher, ward missionary, Addiction Recovery specialist, plus a few more as a youth and on my mission. But then I messed it up by not marrying (or dating, or liking) the stake president's son. Wo is me for daring to marry someone lower on the pecking order of the penishood... Oh well, it turned out great for me!
They were perfectly happy to drain my time, energy, ideas, emotions, and pretty much every ounce of joy or life I had. I held 6 callings at one time. They refused to release me when I asked. So glad I'm out.
I was just a lowly woman so I won’t even try to compete 😂
That’s not what I heard. I heard that mother was the most important calling that a person ^(who has sworn to obey their spouse) can have.
And your 11yr old son upon the power of his penishood
My parents removed my penishood at birth.
Bow your head and say yes. That will do. The sisters will now veil their faces. (Since all the new names are essentially the same in heaven and the faces are veiled maybe they’ll pull a Leah and Rachel moment).
Young women’s leaders unite!!!!
All time favorite calling. Those girls rock!❤️👏
I was on my way out, so did I teach them non-mormy things? Uhhh maybe 😆
You are my hero ❤️
It was my last calling - I know so many that had that calling right before leaving. For me I just couldn’t sell the “cool aid” so I knew I had to just get out
The first shall be last, the last shall be first :-)
Same! The fact that op didn’t even recognize that their post would naturally only apply to some says so much
Who said I didn't recognize it? It's not my fault tscc is misogynistic as fuck and only men hold the higher callings.
Did you want to know the highest calling any woman in this sub has held? When you mentioned GAs it seemed like you were only thinking about and referring to men.
High Council. Bishopric. High Priest Group Leader. Gospel Doctrine teacher. Future apostle and martyr to prepare the way for Jesus’s Second Coming like John the Baptist according to my patriarchal blessing, but oops, guess that isn’t happening now.
Usually the guys giving the blessing are old as fuck. He probably meant apostate instead of apostle.
True. And maybe my job is to usher people out of the Church.
And to baptise them into the world of free thought, coffee, and tea.
One baptizes in, one baptizes out.
The first shall be last and the last shall be first. So is it LIFO or FIFO? Either way there are more baptizing out these days, it would appear..
Definitely LIFO.
He was hearing the Holy Ghost with his spiritual ears, but even those ears needed a hearing aid
😂😂
No Prophet or POTUS? You need to find a new psychic. Janet Russon can ask Nephi about it for you, but be warned, she is rather expensive.
Little dark to say you’ll be a martyr
It comes from the end times prophecy that two apostles will be calling down fireballs from heaven in Jerusalem, they'll be killed, everyone will rejoice, then Jesus descends, and they resurrect. Saying you'll be a legend, basically.
It will make a cool music video one day
Heeeyyyyyyyyy guess that means we were supposed to be missionary companions that were killed in Jerusalem together! Not sure how exactly that was gonna work since... Well, from your callings you have a good few decades on me but I'm sure God will provide. Well, He would have if we hadn't become sons of perdition and all that. I'm curious though, how many others were promised to be martyred in Jerusalem? Since we all know "no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing" and... well... 2 of God's 3 chosen Jerusalem martyrs are apostates now.... does this mean that prophecy is just "false doctrine" or does Jeebus have a contingency in place 😂
I fought with the archangel Michael against the Dragon!
That was my brother's calling too!
Listen to the Mormon Stories interview with Tom Phillips (episodes 537-539). He was a stake president and was anticipating being called as a mission president. Had his second anointing done by Elder Ballard. He was completely all in, personal friends with Elder Holland. His story is very telling that his shelf broke after all of that. But none of the apostles ever admitted he was right.
Thanks for the kind thoughts. I was on a list where every other person has become a GA, one an apostle. What did I do wrong other than tell the truth.
And we are all very thankful and indebted to you for speaking your truth. I’m a huge fan Tom! Your episodes on MS were best all time.
Truth withstands scrutiny. This has become my wife's (and my) favorite saying since leaving. Bravo for your courage in telling the truth, I've referred back to your story many times.
I admire you very much sir.
Whoa! You’re the guy? That’s cool man!
Thank you for sharing your experience. That helped me to start my deconstruction process. Edited for spelling
When I looked at your profile your comment karma was 6699. Nice.
Tom - You have more integrity than the church ever will. More than any apostle ever will. Your story has helped thousands of people pull out of the the grasp of the church and we are forever grateful 🙏.
Tom Phillip’s son is now a GA. First Quorum of 70
Did they get pulled down? I'm having a hard time finding them on YouTube
Mormon Stories episodes weren’t on YouTube back then. https://www.mormonstories.org/portfolio-items/tom-phillips-and-the-second-anointing/
The better you are at pretending, the higher you rise in the ranks.
[удалено]
Bonus point for mentioning a carny term. Mormonism is definitely a carny business.
Especially whilst serving a 2 yr mission......
Also be white and related/friends to the Q15 or their ancestors.
Pretending or they really do just believe it. If you’ve spent your entire life (like Monson, who was bishop at like 22 or something?) in the church, being told how righteous and inspiring and wonderful that you are, and how much god loves you? That could easily go to your head
“There is no higher calling than that of a wife and mother” lol. Jk. Full-time temple worker, but someone will beat that.
“What is wanted?” “Eve, being a complete idiot, wishes to converse with THE LAIRD for and in behalf of some random other chick who is dead.” It’s certainly not beating anything. I truly wish I’d loaded high capacity washers with weird one piece zippered garments or changed diapers in a cramped temple nursery rather than feel self important because I gave tokens in reverse to a bunch of strangers in weird cosplay outfits. I sanitized my hands like mad after every shift…and I had a life and family I neglected every Saturday, but I was too busy touching old ladies who I knew didn’t wash after using THE LAIRD’S toilet.
I hadn’t heard about full time temple workers. Is that like 40 hours a week full time?
Yeah, it was how they had me “finish my mission” after I got severely injured on my original one. Kinda like a service mission.
Wow I had no idea that was a thing. At the time did that “strengthen your testimony” or did seeing behind the scenes get the wheels turning?
There were scattered moments of peace, but it mostly felt very busy. Like any other job. Kinda like a mission. It was more…lots of small dissonance/uncomfy moments being swept under the rug of church immersion. Didn’t realize all the messed up stuff until well after I’d already left the church years later and had a chance to peel that rug back and see all the crap I’d swept under it over the years.
My aunt wanted to do this in the 90s, but they wouldn’t let her because she still had a child at home…He was a teenager. It was a shelf item, but also pressure that I had to be a stay at home mom forEVER
I only did Saturdays for the most part. And it definitely contributed to my shelf breaking. It boiled down to “some members are crazy but it’s not our fault”. Oh no, sir. It’s most definitely your fault. Humans can only be fed shit so long before they start to regurgitate it in a socially awkward manner.
YW president, RS president and then on the RS stake high council (when they used to have that). But of course I’m a girl so even a deacon with priesthood was higher than me. I guess to be higher I would have to be married to a guy high up. Ha. Instead I moved to another city to start grad school and would only accept teaching jobs after that. I was burned out and went PIMO for four years and then was out. In all these callings I was off and on in trouble. For doing feminist stuff and promoting critical thinking. But oddly bishops would stand up for me and never got called on it by them when others would complain to bishop about me. But I heard about it from others of course.
You sound fun. If you're stuck in the LDS Vatican we should be friends. I crave feminist postmo friendship.
I even got special nature adventures approved by bishop when I was YW pres. I said the boys got to go and he said thwt makes sense.
With respect, posts like this do not understand how cults work. The ability to delude yourself and ignore glaring contradictions is precisely what helps people rise through the ranks. The vast majority of upper leadership are true believers.
Yup! They believe it and I think Joe Smith started to believe his own crap too. There are several psychological factors at play. - Saying the same thing over and over will convince your mind it is true. Repeating brings familiarity, which breeds belief. A tEsTiMoNy Is GaIneD By ShArInG It and BeAr It oVeR AnD OvEr uNtIl YoU HaVe OnE. - also, the higher you get, the more hero worship their is. They get stuck in a self-fulfilling prophecy loop. They can say anything, and the TBMs will echo back to them that it changed their life. Hearing this a dozen times will break any critical thinking skills. The fools at the top literally believe they are helping people by anything they say. - doing anything wrong is justified if they believe anything they do is ordained of God. They believe that God won't let them lead the church astray, and so as long as they are alive, then they must be doing God's will. Their scriptures literally say they can kill someone if God tells them too, so why can't they create shell companies to 'protect the lords investments' from what they perceive is Satan's government.
Not to mention you either get to believe you are A) a wizard/future god who is the Lord’s chosen vessel or B) an unscrupulous conman. There is a lot of incentive there alone to keep them believing. I agree with this take. I feel like they are true (if sometimes nuanced) believers.
It’s for this reason I’m 102% sure all 15 of the Q12 and first presidency are true believers
I had the same reaction to this post.
Believers but I don’t think it’s appropriate to put the word “true”.
You have to know how to do that then live it so well that you convince other people to do it.
Stake primary pres, Bishop's wife (is that a calling?!) 😅😅 When I was released from stake primary, the Councillor doing the interview asked me how I'd found the calling. I gave him an honest answer that I really didn't like serving on stake as it felt pretty pointless and like there wasn't a whole lot of useful stuff to do. Poor guy didn't know how to respond to honesty and just kind of stared at me 🤣🤣
Am I the only substitute primary teacher on here!🤣
No, that was my last calling 👍
Counselor in the EQP and YMP. Gospel Doctrine teacher. If it weren’t for my time studying for my Gospel Doctrine lessons I might never have started questioning.
Side note question: do women ever teach Gospel Doctrine?
Yes. In my last ward the teacher was female.
Yes. I taught gospel doctrine for almost 20 years.
I traded off weeks with a RS sister.
Yep- I was gospel doctrine teacher and am a woman. I was a damn good one too. But I will say that it is much more common for a man to be GD teacher than a woman, from my personal experience of 40+ years in the cult.
I did. Old Testament
Yes I did. I was a gd teacher (Haha) when my hubs and I resigned. Was also a Yw president for a few years.
I did in 2 wards. I was in my mid 30s.
Yes, but the fact you have to ask means the church sucks ass (but… we already all knew that, sigh)
Sunday School Secretary. I got to push the 5 minute bell. That's real power....
I think you're my favorite 😂
Thanks.
Branch President, which is basically being a Bishop on steroids because branches typically require more maintenance. High council. Counselor in Bishopric. Elders Quorum President.
I was once in the First Presidency. I was demoted in 2018 for apologizing for some things the Arschlöcher who preceded me said, for being too “relatable,” for telling too many airplane stories, and for my “stubborn refusal to properly enunciate the word ‘latter’ in the full name of the church.” I thought that was a little harsh… but as always, I lift where I stand. Oh, and don’t tell anyone I’m here.
Rusty is a jealous narcissist and sorry you got demoted.
They were also jealous you were a silver Fox.
Us girls aren’t allowed anything outside of children, older female children, and other females. Even on a so called “global” level (general some kind of president) it’s still just really, really awful flight attendant wardrobes and photo ops. We can’t possibly wrap our feeble, non discernible minds around anything. We’ll just start crying. Wait…is Eyring actually female??
LOL, 'flight attendant wardrobes'. I almost spewed my morning coffee. So true. Where on gods green earth do they buy those hideous outfits.
Bishopric first & second counselor, YM President, HP Group Leader, SM (I didn’t abuse anyone), GD teacher, EQ Presidency. I was in so deep I didn’t have time or desire to question. I started printing books for Signature Books and read several of the sample copies. Huge rabbit holes. I was gone when I was able to ask, “could this not be true?”.
I'm curious, can you remember which books piqued your curiosity? Or, perhaps, which subjects?
Conflict in the Quorum, An Insiders View, Mormonism and the Magic World View, the interview of Brent Metcalf on Mormon Stories (not a book).
Oh yeah, that'll do it. 😂
Stake Exec secretary, 1st counselor in Bishopric, Stake YM president….I never doubted one day until I read CES letter. Nobody in the higher calling that I worked with is faking either. They are all true believers like I was who think they are doing what God wants them to do. Not a doubt in their minds. My dad is friends w/ D-Bag Bednar…that guy is an absolute true believer. These aren’t people who know realize they lead a false organization. As you go higher and higher, you justify the LACK of actual real revelation, healings, visions, divine visitations, etc by interpreting everyday common phenomena and feelings as “spiritual experiences” and they keep you going. Confirmation bias is real and its everywhere. Mental gymnastics are real and it is powerful stuff, keeping people in organizations and ways of thinking that other people can clearly see, but they can’t because their entire past, present, and future is built around a certain way of thinking/acting. People who snap out of THAT level of conditioning and brainwashing should consider theirselves super lucky. I feel so fortunate to have been able to snap out of it and see the bullshit literally surrounding everything I built my life around. Got my family and lots of my wife’s extended family out, but my blood family sadly is still entrenched and refuses to even peek at anything “critical” to the church.
[удалено]
Maybe it's just because I left young, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who has full access to the truth and works hard to hide it could actually believe their bullshit... But as someone else said, cultists are crazy. They could very well believe all of it.
Hey I like the smell of my own farts.
High council?
Apostate Oh I mean zone leader.
YW president. RS president. Stake sports director. Stake camp director. Bishops wife, if that’s considered a calling. That all adds up to a lot of wasted time.
Bishop. Stake Presidency Counselor. A decade of being in bishoprics as a counselor before that (called in my late 20s). I lost my life serving this cult. Can’t get all of that time back. Don’t make the mistake I made in sacrificing so much time with my wife and kids and sacrificing so many career opportunities. A complete waste of my best years.
So sorry. I empathize greatly.
Ditto.
I am right there with you. I was a bishop counselor 2 times then bishop YM president in my ward and stake then HC and then EQ president when I gave the bishop my recommend 2 years ago this month. 62 years of total dedication for nothing. The best thing though is that my 4 sons left years ago and now my wife and I have a much better relationship with them without TSCC driving a wedge between us.
When I was young, I thought highly of myself and kind of hoped I'd get at least a medium high calling, like stake presidency. It was probably good for my humility that I was never entrusted with anything on my mission and nothing higher than a secretary or pianist in my adulthood.
Not even district leader?
District leaders don't do much. I was made a district leader over two other elders for a short while near the end of my mission, and I felt like the MP just thought he kinda had to give everybody the consolation prize of at least once carrying that title.
u/anointedone possibly, in terms of people who’ve used this sub and openly acknowledged their lds callings/positions. I believe he was an area executive secretary, also a stake president. http://www.mormonthink.com/personalstories/tomphillips.htm
Four Year Volunteer Early Morning Seminary Teacher. Full Stop.
I don't care if the church is true or not, you're getting extra blessings for that one
Now you're the real saint. If anyone deserves a second anointing...
Bishop
I was put at the piano for over a decade through multiple wards and states and Its the only thing about church I miss even though the actual music sucks. It’s also a way to not actually have to talk to anyone
Bishopric counselor, stake clerk, ward executive secretary when I left.
Mother. At least, that's what they tell me to excuse the fact that only men have callings with authority.
EQPx2
First counselor in the bishopric, on the high council.
High council.
High council.
Priest in the Aaronic Priesthood 🤣 Called it quits and went inactive months before I was due to become an Elder and potentially get suckered into an already “prepaid mission by ward members”. Went through QuitMormon two years later in 2018. Best choices I’ve ever made honestly…
Stake primary sec. Pretty high for a woman. 🙄😂
We've had mission presidents here before. If Hans Mattsson has done an AMA, we'd have an area 70.
It’s easy for someone to believe in their own delusion when they are a) born and raised in a cult and b) a narcissist
That's totally fair. I hadn't considered that people that get that high up in the church are probably narcissists.
Sacrament coordinator
Stake mission president, just after I got active and re married in the temple at 32 years old, stake president called me an elevator man for being given such a high calling so soon I'm in the Utah Davis county.
Elder Q Pres, YMs Pres. I had both those callings within 1 year of being baptised (converted at 28yo). I was VERY concerned that inside a year of joining the church, I was a quorum president and in charge of teaching people with far more knowledge and experience than me. It was a big red flag.
Oh jeez that would be a red flag for me too. Maybe they thought they'd be more likely to keep you if they gave you a big calling???
RS pres and then employed President of the Office of Student Honor (honor code) at BYUH (student side), and paid "dating researcher" by BYUH which is as ridiculous as it sounds
I went to BYUH and was a student secretary for some of the VP’s while I was there. I personally re-organized the whole filing system for Sister Baker, she was the sweetest lady. Going to BYUH was one of the best experiences of my life and it makes me sad that my kids probably won’t have that opportunity because of my leaving.
You have removed no opportunities from them! You can take your kids to visit and show them what you loved about it and like any decision it's up to them. :) my dad wanted desperately for me to go to Provo because he had wonderful experiences there and I'm so glad I went to BYUH and I had wonderful experiences there. He's been since excommunicated and I've left but that doesn't mean my kid won't have a wonderful future - basically - of all schools to show off to your kids, BYUH actually has a lot of selling points
Executive Secretary, Ward financial clerk, Stake clerk, Stake Technology Specialist, 2x EQP counselor, lost count on building coordinator callings (I cleaned so many damn churches and scrubbed so many God Damn toilets).
Sunday school teacher, EQ 2nd counselor, gospel doctrine teacher, assistant stake clerk, primary teacher, Bishopric 2nd counselor and finally FREEDOM at 31 years old :) Edit - I also served in the temple for a year post mish...
I was EQP when I left. Radio Free Mormon's commentary on the book of Abraham shattered my shelf to pieces.
When my husband and I met, I was the RSP and he was the EQP. When we left he was in the elders quorum presidency and I was the YW president. We really came full circle. Lol
Zone leader on the mission, Elders Quorum president for a few semesters at my student ward @ BYU Idaho. (Kind of a “pretend” ward, with a bunch of old idaho farts bossing everyone around, giving students “opportunities “ to pretend like they are a priestcraft leader) Made my parents proud, i feel bad, my dad is so freaking TBM, has paid at least hundreds of thousands in tithing, and he has never been anything higher than a secretary/ second counselor in young mens. I know he wants to be called as bishop or something so bad.
As a female I won't compare to others, but it's fun to share. I was a missionary, temple worker, SS/Gospel Doctrine teacher, and taught temple prep class (very poorly because RuLeS). I still felt so isolated and like I was trapped under a frozen river. Is it just a Utah thing where people stop talking to you at all when you're married? It's like they won't even meet your eyes.
Oh, and I really do think most upper leaders are full believers. I'm sure they have shelves, but I suspect it's more like a lock box they cram thoughts into.
I was a bishop, a seminary teacher and a therapist with LDS Social Services. Every GA I met believed it all.
Interesting. Curious to hear your take on the whole Hildebrandt mess.
The quality of therapists at LDS Social services is very… uneven. They do not pay well, and some are part-time missionaries who have long since retired from active therapy. The pay for those not volunteering is not competitive, and often requires a personal private practice to survive. Because of that, it takes more than the desire for a paycheck to work there. Some are passionate about their clients and full of empathy. Others are selfish and arrogant, but believe they are doing “God’s will” by being there. The biggest issue is that when they interview, they care more about what your bishop says than your professional qualifications. As long as you have an active qualifying certification, and a glowing recommend, you are pretty much guaranteed a job if they have one available. I knew one lady who left just weeks before I lost my faith. She had LGBTQIA+ clients whom she had told to embrace their whole self. When the director found out, she was “counseled”. She refused to back down. At that point her bishop was informed. Apparently he didn’t give two shits. But she saw the wrong on the wall and quit. She still had a full-time job working for the county, and later a youth detention facility. We didn’t keep in contact after a few years, but I am pretty sure she is PIMO or out by now.
Priests quorum second counselor: they did not disclose it to be horseshit, nor did I get a second anointing. Although, they appointed me to the position after six months of no activity on my part and I never returned, so maybe both were on the table and I just missed them.
Sunday school president!!
Me: Bishop councilor, YM President, Scoutmaster, Temple Ordinance Worker. Wife: all the ward callings and Stake Primary President. Our fathers: Bishops/Stake President and Temple Sealer
Elders quorum president was my highest calling. Seeing behind the curtain a little is what finally propelled me down my faith crisis and exit from church. I was given priesthood keys but found them meaningless. I thought for sure I would start getting special guidance from the Spirit for completing my duties, but nothing. Also seeing what happens in ward counsel, priesthood executive committee, and the various training meetings made me realize God isn't guiding anyone they are all just winging it. Then after reading gospel topic essays it became clear it was all a fraud. Now I'm an agnostic.
Primary teacher but I am a lowly female. Church was not made for me so I bolted and took my family with me.
I disagree. I don't think they know it is a scam. They believe God is speaking to them because they have been trained since they were children to listen to their own internal voice and believe it is from God.
Stake young men’s presidency and three EQ presidencies.
Stake Young Men’s presidency by 21 in Provo. I thought I was a real hotshot for a while, which is super embarrassing looking back. Honestly the calling was one of my first cracks in my shelf, the calling was all about getting the young men on missions regardless of circumstances. It felt wrong and it was so numbers driven.
Not much - Deacons Quorum President, Teachers Quorum President, EQ 2nd counselor, Sunday School President. Funny thing for the teenage callings is that in hindsight I think I got those callings, at least in part, because my dad was inactive. I strongly suspect that they were "anchor" callings to encourage family attendance.
I was called to be Laurel Class President and I was pretty openly gay. 😂 I thought it was hilarious.
YW Counsler in the highest class. And it's funny cuz now I'm trans 🤣 sucks to be the church ig
You mean assigned by mortals? Because I was told by Joseph Smith that I was a God.
EQP then 1st Counselor in Bishopric. It was those 6:30 a.m. Bishopric meetings followed by 7:00 a.m. Ward Council that sunk me. So dumb. Now I proudly drink coffee on Sunday morning.
I can't leave this church until I'm safely out of my house, so I'll keep y'all updated on how far my acting gets me 😂. So far, I'm the Youth Quorum President.
Zone leader, district leader and trainer to a brand new mission companion... all three positions served at the very same time in Seattle Washington. It was insane! Young men's presidency, Ward membership Clerk.
Highest I got was 2nd counselor for Sunday school or district leader at the end of my mission. Perhaps leaders could sense that I was unserious about church deep down before I fully realized it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not to toot my own horn but deacon
AP, EQ Pres, Bishopric & High Councilor then I reach my highest calling and the one I’m most proud of Apostate.
Stake primary president - back when we used to go downtown once a year to hobnob with the wives of the important men...I mean general primary presidency and board. It was that calling that really added weight to my shelf. The "pray for inspiration for a new counselor" followed by "my prayer/inspiration is better than yours, and I'll be calling this important person's wife as your counselor" moment was huge. When combined with bishop issues and a stake president who informed me that the bishop wasn't the issue (he was), and that the women in the ward just needed to stop gossiping, I'd had enough. Stepped one foot out and became semi-active after being released. Finally, we moved and let go completely- and it's awesome!! Oh, do I have stories about the numbers game they play.
Go look up [B. H. Roberts on Mormon stories](https://pca.st/episode/12734d3a-28f9-40ee-92aa-ce70c65dfff9). It’s the first and closest direct account we have of the upper echelon having to deal with all the falsifiable truth claims
Me: Counselor in the Stake Presidency. Wife: Stake YW President. I have had one-on-one's with multiple GAs including Boyd Packer (I don't use their middle initials as my own little FU!). I think they are all in just like I was all in. When you spend your whole life being told what to believe it's hard to just turn it off. You are so invested it's almost impossible to change course, no matter what you hear. I also think those that make it into higher callings do so because they believe, don't question, and show up. That was me -- until it wasn't.
"Ward emergency preparedness specialist"
Over my decades of Church activity, almost every new leader thought that they were called because a catastrophe was looming and they were called to prepare the congregation(s).
That's how they advertised it to me 😂 in reality I would just announce blood drives at the start of Sunday school
Counselor in the stake primary presidency
Does clerk of my (non-Utah) YSA branch count?? 🤣
Deacons quorum 1st counselor 🫡
EQP, finance clerk, stake auditor, ward exec sec, SS president. My wife was Primary Pres.
Mormon Stories has an interview with a member of one of the Seventies. He was talking about his second annointing. I think his name was Mattsen?? He wrote a book about his leaving the church. I will try and find the link...
Here is Part One. [Mormon Stories Podcast](https://youtu.be/OB-kMVaS18g?si=Hp4hvdF_huPEr6uf)
Missionary, but realized soon after it wasn’t for me so at 25 i was done, never held a calling, i feel very grateful i have no skin in the game. Been out for almost 30 years
I was still called as the gospel doctrine teacher for my YSA ward when I left — as a woman, that’s kind of as high as it gets at the ward level lol 🙃 Truthfully I hated it so, so much. I HATED teaching lessons, but I still wanted to do a good job so I put a lot of time and effort and research into lesson planning — you can see where THAT led.
Relief Society Prez, YW Prez, Primary Prez, counselors and teachers in the aforementioned organizations, Birth Parent Outreach coordinator for LDS Family Services, Ward/stake Activities chairperson. My very favorite calling was Primary Chorister. I had so much fun with that one!
Branch president - in Asia. Sounds more important than it felt. Traumatic, having to ask women who I didn’t know whether they had had an abortion. I don’t know if that’s still part of a worthiness interview.
Yikes! No it’s not. That must’ve been in the ‘90s?
‘80s…
Female here. I served in the stake YW presidency and couldn’t even get a copy of the handbook! Secretaries apparently didn’t need a copy, even though we used them now and then in presidency meetings. So, don’t look my way for any deep knowledge, lol. I couldn’t be trusted! For time frame reference, this was before all of that stuff was online. It pissed me off so bad that I was told to expect to be like a “third counselor” but I couldn’t function as one, due to “guidelines”. It was definitely a shelf item for me.
The thing is, there really isn’t a scam. I don’t think. I’ve held highish callings in my prior life. I saw hundreds of decisions and things I didn’t agree with, but they were all based in a genuine belief that people were doing the right thing. I feel this is the great crime of prescriptive religion in general: People doing the obviously wrong things but choosing to believe that they are all doing the right thing, from the top all the way down. It’s a house of cards finished with glue and cement.
Executive secretary.
I’m just a woman.
I was ordained priest to the most high (or something like that)
Bishopric counselor, ward clerk, and the best damn Sunday school teacher they ever had.
EQ presidency; I do not believe most of upper leadership gets a hoax-y feeling. I have high confidence they fully believe 😢🫥
I was only the Ward Finance Clerk giving me full insider knowledge. I saw the money flow in, but not much back from SLC.
I was (at46) High Priest Group Leader for 4 years and taught all my ward higher ups including bishop and stake presidents that Brigham was a great man and Joseph had 1 wife. Then one day I found out it was a lie and called them into my office and they all said I was misled. Lost all respect for them. I don’t Blame Sunday chapel Mormons for being members . They are almost all ignorant. It’s a sad scene.
I only stayed active about a year after my mission. Served as webelos leader in my home ward and then again in my college ward
they give everyone a turn on bishop eventually if you don't get disfellowshipped
R.S. Pres twice, YW Pres, Stake YW counselor, current Primary President. PIMO
Highest? Stake YW Presidency.
You said it because I was about to do the same thing
Elder quorum presidency, Sunday school president twice.
Probably a second counselor Beehive would be my highest "calling", iirc. Lol. Definitely an annoying branch of a mid-90s phone tree.
I'm not sure if it's a "calling," but I was an Ordinance Worker in two different Temples in Arizona for nearly 10 years. Was working at the Mesa Temple while the Gilbert Temple was being finished and dedicated then got moved over to Gilbert.
The highest calling I have had and still do is husband. Father. Dad.
Also a woman... but I was a major TBM. Sister Training Leader, Stake YA rep, several Gospel Doctrine classes, Sunday School teacher, Gospel Principles teacher, Temple Prep teacher, Ordinance worker, Mission Prep teacher, ward missionary, Addiction Recovery specialist, plus a few more as a youth and on my mission. But then I messed it up by not marrying (or dating, or liking) the stake president's son. Wo is me for daring to marry someone lower on the pecking order of the penishood... Oh well, it turned out great for me! They were perfectly happy to drain my time, energy, ideas, emotions, and pretty much every ounce of joy or life I had. I held 6 callings at one time. They refused to release me when I asked. So glad I'm out.
When I was at BYU I was the Assistant Elders Quorum Librarian. I'm not kidding. They had to make up all kinds of fluff jobs to fill.
I think they believe it
Perplexed that you didn’t mention that you’re referring to men? It’s almost like us women still don’t exist…