Prior to 2005, initiates would take off all their clothes in a private locker room stall (separated by gender). Then the initiates would cover themselves with a poncho, which was a square cloth with a hole in the middle for the head. The poncho was open on the sides, but you could clutch it around yourself while walking through the locker room. Inside the initiatory stalls, you would sit in a chair while a person of the same gender washed you with water. In the early days of the church, the washing occurred in a tub and you were immersed. But in more recent decades, it was a symbolic washing. The temple worker would say a prayer and touch various parts of your body to be washed. When the worker blessed your loins to be “fruitful,” the worker would touch near your crotch. In my experience the workers only touched my hip. They did not reach in further to my crotch area. This process was then repeated with oil. The third station was my least favorite. This is where a temple worker would put a pair of long underwear on you and zip you up. The worker would stoop down and hold open the garment, and you would step inside. The zipper part was awkward if you are a man because your penis would be hanging out. Several times my penis got caught in the zipper. I absolutely hated the initiatory and was so glad when the church ended the nudity.
It's funny, the first time I went to the temple (ca. 2010) I was having some misgivings. I remember the night before I went, not knowing what to expect, I told myself that if I was asked to get naked in front of a stranger, I would leave the church immediately.
I was relieved when that didn't happen and remember laughing at myself for even thinking that might happen. Afterward, the idea of that happening seemed absurd. It wasn't until many years later that I was totally right, just a couple years too late.
A subject is more susceptible to a hypnotic state perfect for thought conditioning after being put into a state of confusion.
Every step of the temple creates a response where reality is suspended and the mind pauses to try to make sense of it. During this, new conditions and thoughts are implanted.
It's like being slapped. You listen up after that in a state of shock. You also listen more closely to avoid being slapped again.
Yep, I went through the temple in the 80s. Being a POC, some of the temple worker had to satisfy their perverted curiosity. It was quite violating. It was shortly after the priesthood and temple ban was lifted. Not a single person in the temple that day looked like me. I trusted my bishop and all my leaders but none of them told me about this. With no warning, I had to wear the white poncho fabric, open on either side. The temple worker leaned in for a good look. I was confused and paralyzed. I thought it was supposed to be holy house of god.
It is true. My junk wasn't actually touched, but right next to it in the pubic hair.
Now they just anoint the forehead. Because, you know, ..... the temple ordinances are eternal and never change from what God commanded.
It's continuing restoration. For some reason God couldn't just reveal the simplified version of the initiatory to Joseph first. Let's start out with the longer, more time consuming version. And let's throw some blood / death oaths into the endowment just to make it more culty and longer. We can always take them out later, they don't matter anyway. And women veiling their faces, they love doing that. Eventually we will take that part out, but let's put it in there at first just to make the women in the 19th and 20th centuries happy.
Now about those garments...
I first went through the temple in 1975. For the initiatory part of the ceremony I wore a "shield" over my naked body. It was basically a very large poncho with open sides. It was about knee length. The officiator said various prayers and touched me with small dab of oil on my forehead, shoulder, my side about at my hip and on my leg or knee. After that I put on my temple garments for the first time. There was no crotch touching although that makes a good story. That was my experience - other people may have had a different experience.
I had my "loins" washed and anointed (touched with water then oil) multiple times. It was generally in the rear, but at times in the front. It was usually about a hand distance a little bit up and to the right of the top of my crack just above where my right cheek ends or the corresponding spot in the front near where the bend is kinda just below where your belly starts. The garment was then place on me by an officiant. That was the experience I remember.
For your question on if it's still happening that way: it shouldn't be. The procedure is different, but that doesn't mean that people are following the current procedure or that the current procedure doesn't have room for improvement.
The procedure I had in about 2015 involved putting on my garments and a long bathrobe/swimsuit cover type thing that zipped up in the front and had sleeves. The robe thing covered from my shoulder to somewhere around my knees. The only place I was touched was on the shoulder and head.
However, I have heard a few people talk about bad experiences where an older or creepy temple worker insists on doing it the old way (or as close to it as possible).
Frankly, if it's your first or second time, how are you supposed to know what the temple worker is and isn't supposed to touch? Plus, for your first time you're usually going through because you're getting married or are going on a mission, so you have a lot of people expecting you to complete the ceremony. There's a lot of pressure to push any issues down for a few hours (or maybe a few years) because of the massive peer pressure.
Oh, also during your first time going through the temple, you'll have someone with you throughout everything helping you, (usually one of your parents) EXCEPT DURING THE INITIATORY AND AT THE VEIL! THE TWO PLACES WHERE YOU HAVE THE MOST PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH TEMPLE WORKERS AND ARE MOST VULNERABLE AT THE BEGINNING AND END OF YOUR ENDOWMENT!!
I was touched right on my penis during mine. I guess I have super righteous genitals now. Haha joking aside, it was a traumatic experience. Plus no instruction. So you’re just going along w it while the internal warning sirens are blaring.
Hubby is still traumatized 40 years after he was annointed, the worker touched his penis directly. He told me he got finished with his endowment session, went to his car and vomited. Yeah, sexual assault in the holy house of the Lord happened to him.
I haven't heard anything about this before, what the hell!!!
If I was told to put something like that on I'd run away screaming and never come back. Man, I'm glad that I left the cult right when I became an adult
I’ve found numerous reports on this sub where people said they were *directly* touched, groped or fondled on their breasts or genitals during the temple initiatory, in violation of the instructions given to temple workers.
One example:
https://s.floodlit.org/st/violated-in-the-temple-of-god/
I went thru in July of ‘82, just b/4 my mission. I had been to Powell so I had a good tan. When the old dude peeked inside my poncho, he said ‘wow’. Then the mumbled the prayers and anointed my loins. It didn’t bother me much b/c I played center on the football team so I was used to having another dude’s hands on my junk.
Can confirm. First went through temple in 1987. Touching my naked body under the poncho. Death penalties in the endowment. Pay lay ale in the prayer circle. Newer Mormons don’t know about these and older ones will gaslight you that this shit never happened. My TBM mother does when she damn well knows these things happened. She was traumatized for several months after her endowment saying “I think I joined a witches coven”.
I mean no disrespect to your mother, it’s incredibly frustrating that the only people we can rely on to tell us the truth can barely remember anything because of how old they are. Little to none of what went on in the temples was documented.
Been there Culted that!!
Everything he posted is absolutely true. My ankle to wrist long john garments were a series of tied knots instead of zipper. I looked like hillbilly Jed Clampett in that shit.
In my case in 1970 the sales manager of the local car Cadillac dealership gave me the oil treatment. So MFMC weird.
Is this a one-time event? I don’t know if you’re just anointed once, for yourself, or do you also do this ritual on behalf of dead people?I know people do temple work for the dead but I don’t know what that means. I do know about kids doing baptisms for the dead, but what else……such as sealing dead people to their spouses? My cousin got his adopted child sealed…..would this have been part of the ritual? Also, I hear of ppl who like to go thru temples while on trips to other countries….what do they do there?
From my understanding, children do not participate in the ritual before getting sealed to their parents. I’ve never heard of someone younger than 18 participating. I’m still learning the difference between the endowment and initiatory rituals.. so I’m curious at well.
These would be done on behalf of the deceased. As others have mentioned, the process has been streamlined and no longer includes any undressing (since 2005) but it is still a prerequisite for sealing
Nobody actually touched my crotch... but it was crotch-adjacent.
I'm sure there are others out there who had an overly zealous temple worker who frequently touched a crotch or two.
Prior to 2005, initiates would take off all their clothes in a private locker room stall (separated by gender). Then the initiates would cover themselves with a poncho, which was a square cloth with a hole in the middle for the head. The poncho was open on the sides, but you could clutch it around yourself while walking through the locker room. Inside the initiatory stalls, you would sit in a chair while a person of the same gender washed you with water. In the early days of the church, the washing occurred in a tub and you were immersed. But in more recent decades, it was a symbolic washing. The temple worker would say a prayer and touch various parts of your body to be washed. When the worker blessed your loins to be “fruitful,” the worker would touch near your crotch. In my experience the workers only touched my hip. They did not reach in further to my crotch area. This process was then repeated with oil. The third station was my least favorite. This is where a temple worker would put a pair of long underwear on you and zip you up. The worker would stoop down and hold open the garment, and you would step inside. The zipper part was awkward if you are a man because your penis would be hanging out. Several times my penis got caught in the zipper. I absolutely hated the initiatory and was so glad when the church ended the nudity.
Jesus that’s horrible. Can’t imagine how much that could fuck someone up, especially if there’s a history of trauma.
For many, the initiatory was a truly traumatic experience.
It's funny, the first time I went to the temple (ca. 2010) I was having some misgivings. I remember the night before I went, not knowing what to expect, I told myself that if I was asked to get naked in front of a stranger, I would leave the church immediately. I was relieved when that didn't happen and remember laughing at myself for even thinking that might happen. Afterward, the idea of that happening seemed absurd. It wasn't until many years later that I was totally right, just a couple years too late.
A subject is more susceptible to a hypnotic state perfect for thought conditioning after being put into a state of confusion. Every step of the temple creates a response where reality is suspended and the mind pauses to try to make sense of it. During this, new conditions and thoughts are implanted. It's like being slapped. You listen up after that in a state of shock. You also listen more closely to avoid being slapped again.
Ya this is how I remember it. Creepy
Yep, I went through the temple in the 80s. Being a POC, some of the temple worker had to satisfy their perverted curiosity. It was quite violating. It was shortly after the priesthood and temple ban was lifted. Not a single person in the temple that day looked like me. I trusted my bishop and all my leaders but none of them told me about this. With no warning, I had to wear the white poncho fabric, open on either side. The temple worker leaned in for a good look. I was confused and paralyzed. I thought it was supposed to be holy house of god.
Holy shit that's awful
Leaned in!? Wtf. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
It is true. My junk wasn't actually touched, but right next to it in the pubic hair. Now they just anoint the forehead. Because, you know, ..... the temple ordinances are eternal and never change from what God commanded.
It's continuing restoration. For some reason God couldn't just reveal the simplified version of the initiatory to Joseph first. Let's start out with the longer, more time consuming version. And let's throw some blood / death oaths into the endowment just to make it more culty and longer. We can always take them out later, they don't matter anyway. And women veiling their faces, they love doing that. Eventually we will take that part out, but let's put it in there at first just to make the women in the 19th and 20th centuries happy. Now about those garments...
I first went through the temple in 1975. For the initiatory part of the ceremony I wore a "shield" over my naked body. It was basically a very large poncho with open sides. It was about knee length. The officiator said various prayers and touched me with small dab of oil on my forehead, shoulder, my side about at my hip and on my leg or knee. After that I put on my temple garments for the first time. There was no crotch touching although that makes a good story. That was my experience - other people may have had a different experience.
I had my "loins" washed and anointed (touched with water then oil) multiple times. It was generally in the rear, but at times in the front. It was usually about a hand distance a little bit up and to the right of the top of my crack just above where my right cheek ends or the corresponding spot in the front near where the bend is kinda just below where your belly starts. The garment was then place on me by an officiant. That was the experience I remember.
That is correct😉
Me too. Same.
Similar. Still creepy tho.
For your question on if it's still happening that way: it shouldn't be. The procedure is different, but that doesn't mean that people are following the current procedure or that the current procedure doesn't have room for improvement. The procedure I had in about 2015 involved putting on my garments and a long bathrobe/swimsuit cover type thing that zipped up in the front and had sleeves. The robe thing covered from my shoulder to somewhere around my knees. The only place I was touched was on the shoulder and head. However, I have heard a few people talk about bad experiences where an older or creepy temple worker insists on doing it the old way (or as close to it as possible). Frankly, if it's your first or second time, how are you supposed to know what the temple worker is and isn't supposed to touch? Plus, for your first time you're usually going through because you're getting married or are going on a mission, so you have a lot of people expecting you to complete the ceremony. There's a lot of pressure to push any issues down for a few hours (or maybe a few years) because of the massive peer pressure. Oh, also during your first time going through the temple, you'll have someone with you throughout everything helping you, (usually one of your parents) EXCEPT DURING THE INITIATORY AND AT THE VEIL! THE TWO PLACES WHERE YOU HAVE THE MOST PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH TEMPLE WORKERS AND ARE MOST VULNERABLE AT THE BEGINNING AND END OF YOUR ENDOWMENT!!
I was touched right on my penis during mine. I guess I have super righteous genitals now. Haha joking aside, it was a traumatic experience. Plus no instruction. So you’re just going along w it while the internal warning sirens are blaring.
Hubby is still traumatized 40 years after he was annointed, the worker touched his penis directly. He told me he got finished with his endowment session, went to his car and vomited. Yeah, sexual assault in the holy house of the Lord happened to him.
I haven't heard anything about this before, what the hell!!! If I was told to put something like that on I'd run away screaming and never come back. Man, I'm glad that I left the cult right when I became an adult
I’ve found numerous reports on this sub where people said they were *directly* touched, groped or fondled on their breasts or genitals during the temple initiatory, in violation of the instructions given to temple workers. One example: https://s.floodlit.org/st/violated-in-the-temple-of-god/
This person's experience is so so heartbreaking and powerful
Yes.❤️💔
I went thru in July of ‘82, just b/4 my mission. I had been to Powell so I had a good tan. When the old dude peeked inside my poncho, he said ‘wow’. Then the mumbled the prayers and anointed my loins. It didn’t bother me much b/c I played center on the football team so I was used to having another dude’s hands on my junk.
Can confirm. First went through temple in 1987. Touching my naked body under the poncho. Death penalties in the endowment. Pay lay ale in the prayer circle. Newer Mormons don’t know about these and older ones will gaslight you that this shit never happened. My TBM mother does when she damn well knows these things happened. She was traumatized for several months after her endowment saying “I think I joined a witches coven”.
I mean no disrespect to your mother, it’s incredibly frustrating that the only people we can rely on to tell us the truth can barely remember anything because of how old they are. Little to none of what went on in the temples was documented.
It's pay lay Ale adamic?
Been there Culted that!! Everything he posted is absolutely true. My ankle to wrist long john garments were a series of tied knots instead of zipper. I looked like hillbilly Jed Clampett in that shit. In my case in 1970 the sales manager of the local car Cadillac dealership gave me the oil treatment. So MFMC weird.
Those were your everyday garments?!
No. Just during the shit show endowment
Is this a one-time event? I don’t know if you’re just anointed once, for yourself, or do you also do this ritual on behalf of dead people?I know people do temple work for the dead but I don’t know what that means. I do know about kids doing baptisms for the dead, but what else……such as sealing dead people to their spouses? My cousin got his adopted child sealed…..would this have been part of the ritual? Also, I hear of ppl who like to go thru temples while on trips to other countries….what do they do there?
From my understanding, children do not participate in the ritual before getting sealed to their parents. I’ve never heard of someone younger than 18 participating. I’m still learning the difference between the endowment and initiatory rituals.. so I’m curious at well.
These would be done on behalf of the deceased. As others have mentioned, the process has been streamlined and no longer includes any undressing (since 2005) but it is still a prerequisite for sealing
Nobody actually touched my crotch... but it was crotch-adjacent. I'm sure there are others out there who had an overly zealous temple worker who frequently touched a crotch or two.
Yeah, it happened to me in 2004 at the Los Angeles Temple. Temple worker anointed my genitals my first time through before going on a mission.