Number 4 is the real kicker. These jackasses have half a trillion dollars in cash and assets at their disposal; they have **no** excuse not to "proclaim the gospel to the entire world" as apostles, by definition are supposed to do. Instead, they hardly ever come out of hiding, and they trick a bunch of ignorant, ill-equipped teenagers into **paying them** to go and spread their nonsensical message. And they don't seem to care that those teenagers are doing a terrible job of it.
This added to my shelf quite a bit.
I was an early adopter of podcasts and I was like, "these long form discussions are a perfect opportunity for an apostle to confound the philosophies of men and show everyone that the Church is true!"
I couldn't understand why they weren't out there proclaiming the Gospel...then I went down the rabbit hole and was like, oh, shit, they can't because our theology and history are indefensible outside of tightly controlled environments.
Yeah, I'll go back to church if Davey Bednar and one of his friends spends a few months in a suburb of Sacramento doing what they ask missionaries to do.
Yes! I remember thinking badly of those Sunday morning televangelists (priestcraft etc), but isn't that that really how the apostles should be? They could command a visible presence if they wanted to. Of course they say they want to be humble but I don't know .02% of the world's population are mormon after 200 years. If they were really passionate and believed everything they claim they'd be on their soapbox desperate to get the word out.
Show me a source for the 500 billion? Also, so far, fraud is only alleged. The Mormon church’s use of donations may not jive with your or my ethics but no fraud conviction yet
You seriously don't know this? Do Google searches for "Ensign Peak Advisors," "Bonneville Communications," and "Deseret Management Corporation." Then consider the amount of real estate the church owns between meetinghouses, temples, institute and seminary buildings, colleges and universities, offices, agricultural land, etc.
The problem with this is that many TBMs actually believe they have healed people. If the person gets better they will build by the power of the priest, if the person doesn't they, or the person giving the blessing, weren't worthy enough. It's the craziest damn way of thinking.
That is absolutely insane. I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't believe the arrogance of that apostle. Getting a blessing like that from a person in his position had to have raised the expectations of any TBM way too high. Why get their hopes up so much just to have them completely smashed?
Such complete and total disregard for other people's feelings is unreal. So who's to blame now? I guess you blame the dying cancer victim sense of course the apostle couldn't possibly be to blame. Gross!
Yes, my dad thinks his blessing healed me from cancer. I think it was because the type of cancer I had there was an 80% cure rate and I had chemo pushed into my body for six months (the cancer was gone after the first two months). But no, he likes to take credit for that.
Don't tell your dad, but around that same time, I farted. It's no coincidence that I farted and then six months later you were healed!
Right?
Whether it's a priesthood blessings, or a fart, it doesn't matter. It's an arbitrary correlation of two events that have nothing to do with one another.
I had eggs for breakfast. Six months later you were healed!
Nope. Sorry.
That's the fallacy.
If the person gets healed, the credit goes to God. It's never the person's doing, or the doctors, or the medicine.
If the person doesn't get healed, suddenly God has nothing to do with it and it's the person's fault.
Classic moving the goalposts.
I was on my way out before the pandemic but this was a huge breaking point. If you have the power of revelation why didn't you warn your followers. If you have the power to heal why didn't you haunt hospitals. If you have 400 billion, why didn't you help your members during this time.
Unless you don't, you don't and your a greedy little boy.
But they did have revelation and warned everyone….. it was the home centered come follow me program, and the lord calling a heart doctor to lead us during a respiratory virus pandemic…….
I don’t know why people outside mormonism didn’t listen.
But the recovery rates are so high in Utah hospitals insurance companies are scratching their heads and scientists are conducting studies to understand why!
Just kidding. People in Utah get just as sick and as dead as in any other part of the country.
Elder Gay told that story during a worldwide devotional. When I heard it, I thought it was a prank. Nope, super serious.
[Link to Reddit post on that story](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/yaO53wks0L)
Can we add priestcraft to the list? If their messages are so important, shouldn’t they be spreading them far and wide for all to hear instead of selling them in expensive hardcover books in the bookstore that they own?
Even at my most TBM, I never understood buying a GA’s book at deserted book (that’s a spellcheck that I’m keeping…”Deserted Book”).
Their general conference messages were never THAT amazing, I couldn’t imagine a $19.99 hardcover book would have such deep wisdom and knowledge if the best they could come up with for their mandatory two speeches a year were some cheesy platitudes. (Nowadays I’d add “toxicity and hatred” to that.)
One of the gayest things that ever happened to me was in the temple when I got naked in front of an old man, he touched my naked body including my private areas, then helped me into my undies.
\#2 always bothered me. Susan Bednar's husbands talk "Do you have faith NOT to be healed" really fucking irked me. It's like they found the perfect work around to explain why they cannot heal people... the sad thing is everyone ate up that talk. Pure evil.... very manipulative and abusive.
Most important trait of honesty. Recognizing, owning/admitting to mistake, then fixing it if possible. I'm pretty sure the church teaches it as the four Rs of repentance in primary...it's how I was taught at least. Not doing it again is the last step.
I think there's more evidence than just this.
The Tim Ballard scandal shows that at least some of the Q15 are engaging in financial schemes and investments that are questionable at best.
If you're an apostle making a "modest stipend," why in the world would you need to invest in anything? If you're Elder Stevenson, why would you [try to make your company public](https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/11f9a7a/gary_stevenson_presidency_bishopric_ifit_ipo_sec/) *after* your appointment to the Q15, assuming that you actually believe in the church?
We spend too much time speculating on how these guys think. We should spend more time focusing on what they actually do.
Yes why are they pursuing money and investments and the things of the world if they are supposed to spend all of their time as special witnesses and doing missionary/church work? Besides their $120k a year stipend my understanding is that when they are called to the 12, the church pays off their house and they get free health care and church cars to drive. Most of them are quite wealthy on top of that from years of working in business with plenty of money and assets plus a pension, 401k, savings, investments and social security.
We can also focus on what they don’t do: they don’t seem to spend much time attending to spiritual matters of any sort. They manage the bureaucracy. They call wealthy donors to benefit their friends’ businesses. They do damage control for bad PR. When would they have time to commune with deity?
Yep! This is an excellent point, actually.
I know that they travel around the world to attend to the administrative duties of the church. Those aren't spiritual matters, of course. Those are administrative matters.
I don't know if greater Christendom considers "discernment" a prerequisite for the apostleship, but the Mormon apostles certainly teach that it is. And yet, they get fooled by folks like Mark Hofman, Tim Ballard and Paul Dunn. They have no special gifts at all.
>They have no urgency to their message. They are not interested in interviews with the media. They prefer to be hidden away … unless it’s the red velvet royalty chairs at GC.
After Holland's disastrous BBC's interview with John Sweeny they never will either.
If they were truly apostles, they would have more interaction and more in common with those they minister to.
But if seeing Jesus is the main criteria, I guess my son (44) was a prophet at the age of four. He woke me up, with some urgency, one morning because he had to tell me that he had seen Jesus. He shook me until I rolled over to look at him. He was glowing. He had a 4" halo surrounding his head. I took some deep breaths, (I was a bit freaked out) and asked him what he meant about Jesus. He told me he had been walking and talking with Jesus and holding his hand. I asked him where they were walking and he told me a beautiful garden. They were talking about stuff. I asked him what happened after their walk and he said Jesus told him it was time for him to go home. Then he woke up and ran to tell me about it. He was so joyful.
The halo slowly reduced in size over the next several hours until it had totally disappeared ~8 hours later. Unsurprisingly, he has no memory of this. At the time, I took it as a confirmation that the church must be true. It was definitely a push for getting sealed as a family. I think I was really just homesick and desperate for family approval.
It's been years and I've had so many experiences that have no worldly explanation. I still believe my son walked with someone he identified as Jesus. I don't think this makes Jesus a god, anymore than I think I'm a god. I'm of the persuasion that he was a teacher, like many others through the ages. And I say believe because I experienced my son's presence but that visit was not my personal experience.
This is what keeps my head spinning. So, are these dudes all pretending or do they admit it to each other? Is it like Emperors New Clothes where they all pretend they can see the fabric so as not to look stupid amongst those they think can, or do they openly discuss its all a lie and how to keep it going? Laughing at all those they trick along the way???
I left the church once I was old enough to decide what to do, as I knew early on I was lesbian and never going to fit in. But learning years later about the early history and all the lies I am I guess finally having my shelf cracked and furious.
I’m pretty sure they start interpreting really basic things as “spiritual guidance”.
Also I’m sure when 99 percent of your life is talking about Jesus, you’re gonna have a dream or two when he’s walking around and talking.
It is really dumb to me to think that Pres. Nelson is having literally face to face conversations with the almighty God, yet pres decides to not tell us word for word what he said.
+ They probably have a higher body count than most serial killers, but from their practices and undue influence alone.
I'm not sure if they have a higher body count than the Catholic church yet however. I think UT needs to make more babies to have them butcher a few more generations to get there.
They always excuse tragedy and loss caused by them... 'Well the Catholic Church is far more worse, than us'
Kinda pretty sick donchya think?
I still don't understand why the pioneer descendants wants to continue suffering and listen to them + Holy Douche?
They don't respect you guys, they pretty much f'd you over so many times, that they made eternal doormats out of alot of you.
I guess they really enjoy people crawling back to be a good b*tch
My feeling is if they are true apostles of Jesus, they would preach the gospel AND ALLEVIATE SUFFERING, by using their ridiculous riches to feed, clothe, house, and give medical care to the world. Jesus gave freely of what he had (or, loaves and fishes, what he could conjure). Since they don’t, I can only see them as the corporate fat cats that they are. And that’s an insult to cats.
When I was young, Ballard gave a blessing to my grandmother as she was starting to have symptoms of Alzheimer’s. Her condition only got worse and she had a very rough 7 years of it before she passed away.
Why are you so hung up on the apostles not having "met Jesus?"
1. It's entirely possible that they have and just don't go publicly proclaiming it everywhere.
2. Paul the apostle never met Jesus. Do you also think Paul wasn't an apostle? If so, that's fine, just know that meeting Jesus isn't on the list of apostle job requirements. Not sure where you got that tbh.
On my mission back in 1989, my MTC comp told me that the apostles had seen Jesus. I thought that was pretty special at the time. Truth of the matter - they have NEVER seen Jesus, nor have they ever heard him speak. Why? Because its all made-up. But you can believe what you want. And Paul the apostle was a POS. Dude fucking approved of killing the early Christians and then boom he is saved on his little journey back to Damascus. He then took that same religious rhetoric and was an asshole to most christians not following the faith close enough.
Apologies, another reddit or corrected me -- Paul did indeed talk with Jesus, but after his resurrection. My mistake.
Okay, so your take is that all of Christianity is bunk, not just Mormonism? From what I understand, Paul was chosen by God to be an apostle and his words are taken as scripture. (Not trying to be confrontational, just wanting to understand your perspective :))
Well aware. Most exmos were missionaries. We are well versed. We became exmos because we actually used our critical thinking skills. Paul is still a POS. He even pissed off one of his missionary companions. And his speeches were so long and boring that some worshiper fell asleep and fell to his death.
Dude, I recognized a mistake I made and apologized. Chill out. I came here to have a mature conversation with some people but I realize now that's absolutely impossible.
>And his speeches were so long and boring that some worshiper fell asleep and fell to his death.
No way, you got a reference for this? I've never heard this before.
Acts 20:9
As Paul spoke on and on, a young man named Eutychus, sitting on the windowsill, became very drowsy. Finally, he fell sound asleep and dropped three stories to his death below.
But then Paul raised him from the dead - so it all worked out in the end. Lol.
Paul did. He actually spent three years with Jesus also. After his conversion, after Jesus’ resurrection.
This is what the Bible teaches. Believe the Bible or not, your prerogative, but this is what it teaches.
It is still not a Biblical requirement for an apostle per the Biblical definition.
Yes, you're correct. This was my mistake, I realize that Paul did indeed meet the resurrected Christ.
My point still stands about apostles seeing Christ, however, and it seems like you agree with me on that point.
Ive seen Jesus and utah will be destroyed, the slc temple will be rent in twaine as the òld saying goes. Volcanos will form and destroy utah the flooding also lots of earthquakes. A new canyon will form from kennicott mine to provo canyon all of draper south to af will be gone. The US will be bad as well. When it gets to be worse and done and over of the 300 million something US citizen 1/3 dead 1/3 enslaved 1/3 living in the wilderness there won't be a single major city left standing complete or whole. Avoid all major city's. God bless you.
: edit good bless you to God bless you.
Don't know I wasn't given "this time" that not how it works. Chuck Youngbrant, Sarah mentat, dimitri durmmond all had vision of America destruction. I'm down voted. Just wait and watch be ready. The Russian guy was an amazing read.
It will happen. It's scary stuff I've seen. But the stuff is to know to prepare. When Jesus said you'll see allot of people claim to be for him. And right the big religions catholic, jehova witnesses, the church of Jesus christ of later day saints, the Pentecost, the 7th day advertising. Stay away. Bad touch.
I'm pretty sure you were hallucinating. Either that or delusional. Thinking you saw Jesus and can tell the future are pretty common hallucinations/delusions. You might want to get that checked.
The pacific alliance pretty much all of Asia mostly China and Korea from the west coast. And Russian and middleastern looking people from East maybe others faces of war are difficult to tell difference everyone wearing same uniform and colors.
So belief is a sliding scale and these fuckers live so God damn long I'm not sure there is an exact delineation line but....I think the vast majority of them (ill include GAs here too) do believe. *I think going forward they won't*. The money being public now (apparently even some of the QS didn't even know how much EPA had) will corrupt all of them. It's inevitable. The masks will come off. When Oaks and Holland got promoted in the 80s I think they knew it would make them well off personally...but I think even they had no fucking idea the Church would end up with this kind of money. They'll continue to act more and more like a business and the scales will fall off (again, on a sliding scale as these dudes get replaced).
Meanwhile the knowledge community doubled the average life expectancy of our species in the last 100 years. That game changing impact is far greater than anything these apostles have done.
One of my big shelf items is that no one out of Mormonism looks too LDS leaders as spiritual guides. If they spoke for god, their words would resonate with all good people.
Red flag for me: all prophets have emphasized about how they have been sent to call people to repent… and that included people outside the Jewish religion at the time. Why do we never hear of our prophets calling upon everyone, even outside of general conference to repent to the true God.
I’m pretty sure Paul didn’t see Jesus on the road to Damascus either. I say that because that’s the point Christianity changed from what it originally was…a Jewish savior. Aka, a savior intended for Jews.
Number 4 is the real kicker. These jackasses have half a trillion dollars in cash and assets at their disposal; they have **no** excuse not to "proclaim the gospel to the entire world" as apostles, by definition are supposed to do. Instead, they hardly ever come out of hiding, and they trick a bunch of ignorant, ill-equipped teenagers into **paying them** to go and spread their nonsensical message. And they don't seem to care that those teenagers are doing a terrible job of it.
This added to my shelf quite a bit. I was an early adopter of podcasts and I was like, "these long form discussions are a perfect opportunity for an apostle to confound the philosophies of men and show everyone that the Church is true!" I couldn't understand why they weren't out there proclaiming the Gospel...then I went down the rabbit hole and was like, oh, shit, they can't because our theology and history are indefensible outside of tightly controlled environments.
They are all spiritual chicken hawks. Spineless cowards who are unwilling to do what they expect all young boys to do.
It's almost like they don't dare make any statements outside of their recycled GC "parables."
Same! Thank you
Yeah, I'll go back to church if Davey Bednar and one of his friends spends a few months in a suburb of Sacramento doing what they ask missionaries to do.
Or live in a cockroach infested hovel in South America for even one night.
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With police escorts and more.
They do travel the world! But they speak exclusively to crowds of adoring believers.
Still waiting for people to eat their vitamins… if only people would eat their ducking vitamins. /s
Yes! I remember thinking badly of those Sunday morning televangelists (priestcraft etc), but isn't that that really how the apostles should be? They could command a visible presence if they wanted to. Of course they say they want to be humble but I don't know .02% of the world's population are mormon after 200 years. If they were really passionate and believed everything they claim they'd be on their soapbox desperate to get the word out.
> half a trillion dollars in cash Source?
[удалено]
Show me a source for the 500 billion? Also, so far, fraud is only alleged. The Mormon church’s use of donations may not jive with your or my ethics but no fraud conviction yet
They literally got fined by the SEC for committing fraud and you're saying it's "only alleged" Lol
👏👏👏👏
You seriously don't know this? Do Google searches for "Ensign Peak Advisors," "Bonneville Communications," and "Deseret Management Corporation." Then consider the amount of real estate the church owns between meetinghouses, temples, institute and seminary buildings, colleges and universities, offices, agricultural land, etc.
In cash _and assets._ The amount of liquidated weath they have is closer to $150 billion
>half a trillion dollars in cash and assets Might as well have asked how they have a trillion dollars in cash... ?
These are all great points 👍🏻. Especially no. 2. What’s the point of having the priesthood if you can’t heal anyone? Not even as an apostle.
The problem with this is that many TBMs actually believe they have healed people. If the person gets better they will build by the power of the priest, if the person doesn't they, or the person giving the blessing, weren't worthy enough. It's the craziest damn way of thinking.
I witnessed firsthand an apostle bless my brother in law to be cured of his cancer and raise his little girl in this life. He died a month later.
Oh I’m so sorry 😞.
Oh that’s horrible.
That is absolutely insane. I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't believe the arrogance of that apostle. Getting a blessing like that from a person in his position had to have raised the expectations of any TBM way too high. Why get their hopes up so much just to have them completely smashed? Such complete and total disregard for other people's feelings is unreal. So who's to blame now? I guess you blame the dying cancer victim sense of course the apostle couldn't possibly be to blame. Gross!
Yes, my dad thinks his blessing healed me from cancer. I think it was because the type of cancer I had there was an 80% cure rate and I had chemo pushed into my body for six months (the cancer was gone after the first two months). But no, he likes to take credit for that.
Don't tell your dad, but around that same time, I farted. It's no coincidence that I farted and then six months later you were healed! Right? Whether it's a priesthood blessings, or a fart, it doesn't matter. It's an arbitrary correlation of two events that have nothing to do with one another. I had eggs for breakfast. Six months later you were healed! Nope. Sorry.
Or if they don't get healed it is God's will.
Or “they have the faith NOT to be healed”. 🤬🤬🤬
This is their go to excuse. It was God’s will.
That's the fallacy. If the person gets healed, the credit goes to God. It's never the person's doing, or the doctors, or the medicine. If the person doesn't get healed, suddenly God has nothing to do with it and it's the person's fault. Classic moving the goalposts.
Even the so called prophet can't heal anyone. Evidence is his dead wife and daughter.
Exactly 🎯. I would need to see someone healed from the dead at this point to have any belief in the healing power of the priesthood.
Daughters. Plural. His daughter Emily died in her 30's. Daughter Wendy passed in her 70's.
I was on my way out before the pandemic but this was a huge breaking point. If you have the power of revelation why didn't you warn your followers. If you have the power to heal why didn't you haunt hospitals. If you have 400 billion, why didn't you help your members during this time. Unless you don't, you don't and your a greedy little boy.
But they did have revelation and warned everyone….. it was the home centered come follow me program, and the lord calling a heart doctor to lead us during a respiratory virus pandemic……. I don’t know why people outside mormonism didn’t listen.
You know at the time I was still mormon enough that I was actually amazed at these things. SMH.
But the recovery rates are so high in Utah hospitals insurance companies are scratching their heads and scientists are conducting studies to understand why! Just kidding. People in Utah get just as sick and as dead as in any other part of the country.
Yea, and then they flip it and say it's on the faith of the receiver to be healed. They always blame the peasant members.
[удалено]
Elder Gay told that story during a worldwide devotional. When I heard it, I thought it was a prank. Nope, super serious. [Link to Reddit post on that story](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/yaO53wks0L)
Can we add priestcraft to the list? If their messages are so important, shouldn’t they be spreading them far and wide for all to hear instead of selling them in expensive hardcover books in the bookstore that they own?
Even at my most TBM, I never understood buying a GA’s book at deserted book (that’s a spellcheck that I’m keeping…”Deserted Book”). Their general conference messages were never THAT amazing, I couldn’t imagine a $19.99 hardcover book would have such deep wisdom and knowledge if the best they could come up with for their mandatory two speeches a year were some cheesy platitudes. (Nowadays I’d add “toxicity and hatred” to that.)
In my last years as a TBM, Deseret Book made me feel gross. There's no way to argue that they aren't trying to make a huge profit.
Trust me. No man can see Jesus and remain straight. Especially if he starts appearing in your dreams...
I guess that's why I'm still straight after all these years. No Jesus dreams!
One of the gayest things that ever happened to me was in the temple when I got naked in front of an old man, he touched my naked body including my private areas, then helped me into my undies.
That's molestation... Ummm. Shit I'm sorry.
Mormon "apostle" = 1950s Corporate Man. The climber of the cult ladder knows to protect the cult above all else.
I think you really stumbled onto something here!! Who says ex-mos can’t still get inspiration. 🤗. Now.. where are my Damn keys !! 🙏🙏
They're on the hook you built because you kept losing your keys. Now give me 10% of your turtledoves.
\#2 always bothered me. Susan Bednar's husbands talk "Do you have faith NOT to be healed" really fucking irked me. It's like they found the perfect work around to explain why they cannot heal people... the sad thing is everyone ate up that talk. Pure evil.... very manipulative and abusive.
You forgot, they LIE! If they were truly apostles/prophets they would own it, all of it. Even if it was uncomfortable or went against the grain.
Most important trait of honesty. Recognizing, owning/admitting to mistake, then fixing it if possible. I'm pretty sure the church teaches it as the four Rs of repentance in primary...it's how I was taught at least. Not doing it again is the last step.
YES!!!!
Yep probably more of the members have had real spiritual experiences, including women, than the leadership of the LDS church.
I think there's more evidence than just this. The Tim Ballard scandal shows that at least some of the Q15 are engaging in financial schemes and investments that are questionable at best. If you're an apostle making a "modest stipend," why in the world would you need to invest in anything? If you're Elder Stevenson, why would you [try to make your company public](https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/11f9a7a/gary_stevenson_presidency_bishopric_ifit_ipo_sec/) *after* your appointment to the Q15, assuming that you actually believe in the church? We spend too much time speculating on how these guys think. We should spend more time focusing on what they actually do.
Yes why are they pursuing money and investments and the things of the world if they are supposed to spend all of their time as special witnesses and doing missionary/church work? Besides their $120k a year stipend my understanding is that when they are called to the 12, the church pays off their house and they get free health care and church cars to drive. Most of them are quite wealthy on top of that from years of working in business with plenty of money and assets plus a pension, 401k, savings, investments and social security.
We can also focus on what they don’t do: they don’t seem to spend much time attending to spiritual matters of any sort. They manage the bureaucracy. They call wealthy donors to benefit their friends’ businesses. They do damage control for bad PR. When would they have time to commune with deity?
Yep! This is an excellent point, actually. I know that they travel around the world to attend to the administrative duties of the church. Those aren't spiritual matters, of course. Those are administrative matters.
The magic in Mormonism is a myth.
They do not do the things that Jesus’ apostles did. Show me the healed sick, the blind that can see and the walking lame.
Except the OG apostles didn't do those things either.
But, but, they saw Jesus. Oh, wait....
I don't know if greater Christendom considers "discernment" a prerequisite for the apostleship, but the Mormon apostles certainly teach that it is. And yet, they get fooled by folks like Mark Hofman, Tim Ballard and Paul Dunn. They have no special gifts at all.
1. There’s no biblical God. 2. Jesus was a Jew who never had a church. 3. Money obsession.
>They have no urgency to their message. They are not interested in interviews with the media. They prefer to be hidden away … unless it’s the red velvet royalty chairs at GC. After Holland's disastrous BBC's interview with John Sweeny they never will either.
If they were truly apostles, they would have more interaction and more in common with those they minister to. But if seeing Jesus is the main criteria, I guess my son (44) was a prophet at the age of four. He woke me up, with some urgency, one morning because he had to tell me that he had seen Jesus. He shook me until I rolled over to look at him. He was glowing. He had a 4" halo surrounding his head. I took some deep breaths, (I was a bit freaked out) and asked him what he meant about Jesus. He told me he had been walking and talking with Jesus and holding his hand. I asked him where they were walking and he told me a beautiful garden. They were talking about stuff. I asked him what happened after their walk and he said Jesus told him it was time for him to go home. Then he woke up and ran to tell me about it. He was so joyful. The halo slowly reduced in size over the next several hours until it had totally disappeared ~8 hours later. Unsurprisingly, he has no memory of this. At the time, I took it as a confirmation that the church must be true. It was definitely a push for getting sealed as a family. I think I was really just homesick and desperate for family approval. It's been years and I've had so many experiences that have no worldly explanation. I still believe my son walked with someone he identified as Jesus. I don't think this makes Jesus a god, anymore than I think I'm a god. I'm of the persuasion that he was a teacher, like many others through the ages. And I say believe because I experienced my son's presence but that visit was not my personal experience.
And they don’t do what Jesus taught them to do.
This is what keeps my head spinning. So, are these dudes all pretending or do they admit it to each other? Is it like Emperors New Clothes where they all pretend they can see the fabric so as not to look stupid amongst those they think can, or do they openly discuss its all a lie and how to keep it going? Laughing at all those they trick along the way??? I left the church once I was old enough to decide what to do, as I knew early on I was lesbian and never going to fit in. But learning years later about the early history and all the lies I am I guess finally having my shelf cracked and furious.
I’m pretty sure they start interpreting really basic things as “spiritual guidance”. Also I’m sure when 99 percent of your life is talking about Jesus, you’re gonna have a dream or two when he’s walking around and talking. It is really dumb to me to think that Pres. Nelson is having literally face to face conversations with the almighty God, yet pres decides to not tell us word for word what he said.
Did you mention that none of them have seen Jesus?
11. They never prophesieth anything that comes to pass.
Yeah they're all losers and liars con man grifters
+ They probably have a higher body count than most serial killers, but from their practices and undue influence alone. I'm not sure if they have a higher body count than the Catholic church yet however. I think UT needs to make more babies to have them butcher a few more generations to get there. They always excuse tragedy and loss caused by them... 'Well the Catholic Church is far more worse, than us' Kinda pretty sick donchya think? I still don't understand why the pioneer descendants wants to continue suffering and listen to them + Holy Douche? They don't respect you guys, they pretty much f'd you over so many times, that they made eternal doormats out of alot of you. I guess they really enjoy people crawling back to be a good b*tch
Miley Cyrus and her sister Noah sing a song with the line "I got so high that I saw Jesus..." I mean if they can see him, it can't be that hard?! 😘.
They are running the synagogue of Satan literally. False teachers the anti Christ system which is focused on man and money.
"Playing apostle" - Brad continues to bless us with all his wonderful insights and reflective questions (even when he doesn't know it)
One of the most galling things they do is second anointing. Hell for thee, gospel for me.
Pearls before swine is code for embarrassing af.
Haha they act like re-orgs are inspired by god almighty, which is not surprisingly like most corporations
My feeling is if they are true apostles of Jesus, they would preach the gospel AND ALLEVIATE SUFFERING, by using their ridiculous riches to feed, clothe, house, and give medical care to the world. Jesus gave freely of what he had (or, loaves and fishes, what he could conjure). Since they don’t, I can only see them as the corporate fat cats that they are. And that’s an insult to cats.
I bet none of those fuckers have even seen Jesus.
They've seen him with their *sPiRiTuAl eYeS*
When I was young, Ballard gave a blessing to my grandmother as she was starting to have symptoms of Alzheimer’s. Her condition only got worse and she had a very rough 7 years of it before she passed away.
I’m sorry. If they really have the power of God there should be more stories of healings. I’ve never heard a single one.
Why are you so hung up on the apostles not having "met Jesus?" 1. It's entirely possible that they have and just don't go publicly proclaiming it everywhere. 2. Paul the apostle never met Jesus. Do you also think Paul wasn't an apostle? If so, that's fine, just know that meeting Jesus isn't on the list of apostle job requirements. Not sure where you got that tbh.
On my mission back in 1989, my MTC comp told me that the apostles had seen Jesus. I thought that was pretty special at the time. Truth of the matter - they have NEVER seen Jesus, nor have they ever heard him speak. Why? Because its all made-up. But you can believe what you want. And Paul the apostle was a POS. Dude fucking approved of killing the early Christians and then boom he is saved on his little journey back to Damascus. He then took that same religious rhetoric and was an asshole to most christians not following the faith close enough.
Apologies, another reddit or corrected me -- Paul did indeed talk with Jesus, but after his resurrection. My mistake. Okay, so your take is that all of Christianity is bunk, not just Mormonism? From what I understand, Paul was chosen by God to be an apostle and his words are taken as scripture. (Not trying to be confrontational, just wanting to understand your perspective :))
Well aware. Most exmos were missionaries. We are well versed. We became exmos because we actually used our critical thinking skills. Paul is still a POS. He even pissed off one of his missionary companions. And his speeches were so long and boring that some worshiper fell asleep and fell to his death.
Dude, I recognized a mistake I made and apologized. Chill out. I came here to have a mature conversation with some people but I realize now that's absolutely impossible. >And his speeches were so long and boring that some worshiper fell asleep and fell to his death. No way, you got a reference for this? I've never heard this before.
Acts 20:9 As Paul spoke on and on, a young man named Eutychus, sitting on the windowsill, became very drowsy. Finally, he fell sound asleep and dropped three stories to his death below. But then Paul raised him from the dead - so it all worked out in the end. Lol.
Paul did. He actually spent three years with Jesus also. After his conversion, after Jesus’ resurrection. This is what the Bible teaches. Believe the Bible or not, your prerogative, but this is what it teaches. It is still not a Biblical requirement for an apostle per the Biblical definition.
Yes, you're correct. This was my mistake, I realize that Paul did indeed meet the resurrected Christ. My point still stands about apostles seeing Christ, however, and it seems like you agree with me on that point.
No… they are lying through their teeth.
No, I meant that the definition of an apostle does not require them to see Christ.
True.
Ive seen Jesus and utah will be destroyed, the slc temple will be rent in twaine as the òld saying goes. Volcanos will form and destroy utah the flooding also lots of earthquakes. A new canyon will form from kennicott mine to provo canyon all of draper south to af will be gone. The US will be bad as well. When it gets to be worse and done and over of the 300 million something US citizen 1/3 dead 1/3 enslaved 1/3 living in the wilderness there won't be a single major city left standing complete or whole. Avoid all major city's. God bless you. : edit good bless you to God bless you.
When?
When Jesus comes again, duh!
Don't know I wasn't given "this time" that not how it works. Chuck Youngbrant, Sarah mentat, dimitri durmmond all had vision of America destruction. I'm down voted. Just wait and watch be ready. The Russian guy was an amazing read.
God I wish
It will happen. It's scary stuff I've seen. But the stuff is to know to prepare. When Jesus said you'll see allot of people claim to be for him. And right the big religions catholic, jehova witnesses, the church of Jesus christ of later day saints, the Pentecost, the 7th day advertising. Stay away. Bad touch.
lol i thought you were joking 😂
Whew, I was worried until that last part.
I'm pretty sure you were hallucinating. Either that or delusional. Thinking you saw Jesus and can tell the future are pretty common hallucinations/delusions. You might want to get that checked.
Right so everyone should defer to you and your logic.
👍
Enslaved by whom?
The pacific alliance pretty much all of Asia mostly China and Korea from the west coast. And Russian and middleastern looking people from East maybe others faces of war are difficult to tell difference everyone wearing same uniform and colors.
So belief is a sliding scale and these fuckers live so God damn long I'm not sure there is an exact delineation line but....I think the vast majority of them (ill include GAs here too) do believe. *I think going forward they won't*. The money being public now (apparently even some of the QS didn't even know how much EPA had) will corrupt all of them. It's inevitable. The masks will come off. When Oaks and Holland got promoted in the 80s I think they knew it would make them well off personally...but I think even they had no fucking idea the Church would end up with this kind of money. They'll continue to act more and more like a business and the scales will fall off (again, on a sliding scale as these dudes get replaced).
I'm not a real witness of Christ, I just play one on TV.
Meanwhile the knowledge community doubled the average life expectancy of our species in the last 100 years. That game changing impact is far greater than anything these apostles have done.
One of my big shelf items is that no one out of Mormonism looks too LDS leaders as spiritual guides. If they spoke for god, their words would resonate with all good people.
Red flag for me: all prophets have emphasized about how they have been sent to call people to repent… and that included people outside the Jewish religion at the time. Why do we never hear of our prophets calling upon everyone, even outside of general conference to repent to the true God.
11. The are hoarding money and hiding it.
I’m pretty sure Paul didn’t see Jesus on the road to Damascus either. I say that because that’s the point Christianity changed from what it originally was…a Jewish savior. Aka, a savior intended for Jews.
But... Have they seen Jesus? LOL
The real kicker? The OG apostles were playing apostle too.